The Volokh Conspiracy
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What it Will Take to Make Government Color-Blind
Achieving this goal will require a lot more than banning racial preferences in college admissions. That includes some measures that will make the political right uncomfortable, as well as the left.
In the Supreme Court's recent ruling against racial preferences in university admissions, Chief Justice John Roberts writes that "[e]liminating racial discrimination means eliminating all of it." It's a great principle. But much remains to be done to realize it.
If we truly want a color-blind government, we will have to go well beyond banning affirmative action in universities. And some of the necessary changes will annoy the political right, as well as the left. The Court's ruling won't immediately eliminate the use of racial preferences in education and elsewhere. And color-blindness cannot be achieved unless and until we also eliminate policies where the government continues to discriminate against racial and ethnic minorities.
Although the Court's rulings against racial preferences at Harvard and UNC are likely to severely constrain such practices in higher education, they may not put a complete end to them, because the majority didn't overrule earlier decisions permitting their use for purposes of pursuing "diversity." In addition, schools may well try to replace explicit racial preferences with supposedly "race-neutral" alternatives that try to target characteristics that correlated with membership in a particular racial or ethnic group. We already see such subterfuges at work in recent efforts to preserve racial preferences for blacks and Latinos, and keep down the percentage of Asian students at selective institutions.
It is also important to remember that higher education is not the only institution that uses affirmative action, and perhaps not the most important. Only a very small percentage of Americans attend highly selective colleges and universities (the kind that typically use racial preferences for affirmative action), and only a small percentage of the latter are either beneficiaries or victims of affirmative action policies.
There are widespread racial preferences in government contracting and in a variety of federal and state government hiring practices and programs. Last week's decisions signal that these preferences are more vulnerable to legal challenges than previously. But it will take much effort - and, probably, much litigation - to root them out.
Affirmative action in education, government hiring, and public contracting are policies espoused primarily by the political left. But policies favored by many on the right will also need to change if we are going to achieve color-blindness.
The discriminatory government policy that affects the most Americans is probably not affirmative action, but racial profiling by law enforcement. A 2019 Pew Research Center poll found that 59% of black men and 31% of black women say they have been racially profiled by police. Such perceptions are backed by numerous studies. Even powerful politicians are not immune. Black Republican senator and presidential candidate Tim Scott has recounted multiple incidents in which he was racially profiled by Capitol police. Racial profiling is especially prevalent in immigration enforcement, where it is even backed by official government policy - including under liberal Democratic presidents, such as Biden and Barack Obama.
Conservatives and other advocates of color-blindness have long advocated overturning Supreme Court decisions like Grutter v. Bollinger (2003), which authorize affirmative action in some circumstances. But few condemn United States v. Brignoni-Ponce (1975), the Supreme Court decision holding that federal law enforcement can use "Mexican ancestry" as a proxy for deciding which people to stop and detain in border areas.
Defenders of racial profiling argue it's a useful tool because membership in a racial or ethnic group may correlate with criminality. Young black males have higher crime rates than members of most other groups. In border areas, Mexican appearance is likely correlated with being an illegal migrant. But this kind of use of race-as-proxy is similar to affirmative action, whose defenders have long argued that being black or Hispanic correlates with being a victim of discrimination or a contributor to "diversity." If it is wrong for university officials to use race or ethnicity as a crude proxy, the same goes for law enforcement.
While most individual incidents of racial profiling inflict only very modest harm, the cumulative impact is substantial, spreading fear in minority communities and poisoning relations between them and law enforcement. True advocates of color-blindness cannot turn a blind eye to discrimination when the government officials doing it carry badges and guns and have the power to arrest, detain, and sometimes even kill or injure citizens. Otherwise, cynics will justifiably suspect we only oppose racial discrimination when it victimizes whites, as in the case of affirmative action.
Advocates of color-blindness must also confront the difficulties posed by facially neutral government policies that, historically, were enacted in large part for reasons of racial and ethnic prejudice. Exclusionary zoning restrictions on housing construction are a particularly important example, which has cut off millions of people from housing and job opportunities. Many such policies were enacted for the purpose of keeping blacks and other minority groups out of majority-white neighborhoods.
Many immigration restrictions were adopted for similar motives, targeting first the Chinese and other Asian immigrants, and later Eastern and Southern Europeans who were considered inferior to and incompatible with Anglo-Saxons and other northern Europeans. Here, too, racially motivated policies massively impacted millions of people.
Color-blindness doesn't require abolition of all policies that were, at one time, adopted out of motives rooted in racial or ethnic prejudice. Among other things, difficult questions are raised by policies that were originally adopted for those purposes, but later perpetuated or extended for other reasons. The same goes for policies enacted out of mixed motives.
However, such policies probably do have to go if the evidence shows they would not have been adopted in the absence of a desire to discriminate on the basis of race or ethnicity. The Supreme Court has long held that, if evidence indicates the presence of racist motives in the adoption of a government policy, the burden of proof shifts to the state, which must show it would have adopted the same policy regardless. But, to understate the point, that rule hasn't always been effectively enforced.
I have focused on achieving color-blindness in government because the Constitution, government's monopoly power over various services, and moral principles all impose broader anti-discrimination obligations on state entities than on the private sector. The latter can legitimately engage in a variety of discriminatory policies that government cannot. But, if like many progressives (and, increasingly, some on the right, as well), you believe government and private discrimination are more alike than different, than private institutions will also have to change some of their policies. For example, private employers that have their own affirmative action racial preferences must abandon them.
Color-blindness does not, however, require a society where all racial and ethnic groups have similar income levels and occupational profiles. Many differences between groups are due to factors other than discrimination. For example, several Asian groups have much higher incomes than the national average in the US, as is also true of Jews and Nigerian immigrants, among others. It's hard to argue that's because US government policy is somehow biased in favor of Asians, Jews, and Nigerians.
Color-blindness also likely does not require somehow restoring the distribution of wealth and income to what it would have been in the absence of a history of discrimination. Given the enormous counterfactuals involved, it is likely impossible to determine what that distribution would have looked like. Moreover, if large-scale historical injustice have been averted, hardly any of currently existing Americans would have been born in the first place. History would have taken a different course, and the world would be populated by a different set of people. In that limited, but important, sense we are all actually beneficiaries of the great evils of history.
Despite these significant caveats, achieving color-blindness requires a lot more than many might assume. Confronted with the true scope of what must be done, some conservatives and others might recoil, and retreat to the idea that government may use racial preferences, after all, so long as they have a seemingly benign purpose. But, of course, that's the very idea underlying affirmative action; defenders of that policy genuinely believe it is essential to achieving racial justice. Moreover, history shows that seemingly well-intentioned racial and ethnic discrimination can cause enormous harm. The architects of exclusionary zoning and racist immigration policy surely believed they were benefiting society. But they in fact inflicted enormous harm for very little gain.
Ultimately, racial and ethnic discrimination by the state is unjust, because it judges people by morally arbitrary circumstances of ancestry and birth that they have no control over, and because history shows that its harmful effects vastly outweigh any putative benefits. At the very least, there should be a strong presumption against such policies that can be overcome only by overwhelming evidence indicating they create great benefits that could not be achieved by other means. By that standard, affirmative action, racial profiling, exclusionary zoning, and much else are likely to fall short.
UPDATE: I have changed the title of this post from the original "How to Make Government Color-Blind," and made a few minor changes in wording.
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"Young black males have higher crime rates than members of most other groups."
Kinder/Gentler Frank here,
"Most" other groups?? so which "other" group has higher crime rates than Young black males???
Frank
Prison gangs.
Like claims of racial bias in general, claims of racial profiling by police are usually lies. This especially goes for groups such as BLM, which not only lies about the facts behind its propaganda stories (eg, "Hands up! Don't shoot!") but actively pushes for prosecutors to let robbers, rapists, and murderers go free while persecuting anyone who defends himself against them. This is deliberate policy by every Soros-funded prosecutor.
Countries that allow this situation to go unpunished become third-world countries. This must stop happening to the US.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuy-oOJCOoM
Zimmerman was given a platform by Hannity and he lied in a national interview. Republicans’ defense of Zimmerman is just another example of how unhinged they have become since the turn of the century.
Complete BS. Zimmerman was attacked and had his head banged against the ground (the wounds were a matter of record). He drew his weapon and protected himself.
Zimmerman was attacked, but if he had minded his own business and hadn’t decided to go all Kojak on a resident returning home he wouldn’t have been. He’s lucky the DA went all political and overcharged him.
What charges do you think would have been successful? Being lucky because the DA "overcharged him" implies that some different set of charges would have led to a conviction.
Manslaughter. Maybe 2nd degree.
Impossible to argue that Zimmerman had zero culpability.
Manslaughter would fail for the same reasons that the murder charges failed. https://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2022/Chapter776 — the only way that Zimmerman could be charged for using deadly force is if he was unreasonable in thinking he was being threatened with great bodily harm (making 776.912 inapplicable) or if he was the initial aggressor (triggering 776.041). In either case, murder charges would have also been viable. And the prosecution never suggested that Zimmerman was the initial aggressor.
Lots of people think that laws like that are unreasonable as a matter of public policy, but they are the ones that governed criminal charges against him.
Lol, you are a pussy like Zimmerman!! His defense team established that he was a pussy incapable of fighting back which is why the 6 women jury acquitted him. I guess we now know that that “P” stands for—pussy!!!
You can’t initiate a confrontation and then claim self defense to get totally clean from it. Zimmerman’s overt act was stalking a kid that he had no business stalking. He started the cascade. For no defendable reason.
Zimmerman stalked him knowing he was a teenager AND knowing that he was carrying a concealed handgun.
Following someone from a distance in a public area is not "initiating a confrontation," legally speaking. Zimmerman was in a place he had every legal right to be. Based on what we know, he did not approach Martin. Martin approached him.
Show me one single example of "initiating" a confrontation. Just one. Out of the evidence that exists. If you people are going to opine on something, at least don't lie about it.
What David Nieporent said. Zimmerman committed neither a crime nor a tort against Martin, and legally neither was the initial aggressor nor initiated a confrontation, at least according to the best evidence we have. The evidence adduced at trial suggests that Zimmerman lost track of Martin and was heading back to meet police when Martin attacked him from behind. That attack was not a legally justified response to being followed.
We don’t know which party threw the first punch…we do know both were interested in MMA though. Btw, you would make a terrible detective ignoring coincidences and believing people that are known liars. 😉
SBF is an idiot. The only mention of MMA in the case is the witness' description of Martin's blows directed at Zimmerman, though Martin is know to have "refereed" school fights. If "We don’t know which party threw the first punch" then, for the purpose of determining Zimmerman's guilt we have to assume that, as GZ said, Martin did. Martin's "girlfriend" said he retraced his steps in order to confront Zimmerman.
Nope, Zimmerman’s MMA instructor testified and he helped Zimmerman because at the time he was being unfairly prosecuted for some reason and hated the prosecutors.
Yeah, 5 of the 6 jurors initially wanted to convict him of manslaughter but the 6th was most likely a plant. Florida has 6 person juries and the key was a high priced jury consultant getting 6 women on the jury because if a man is on top of a woman hitting her any amount of force is reasonable…while a man that wasn’t a pussy would fight back if they were involved in an altercation. So it was important for Zimmerman’s team to establish that Zimmerman was a pussy more like a woman than a man and so his use of force was reasonable.
That's a pretty transphobic comment, lol wow.
Someone needs to update your scripts, it's 2023 now.
Explaining Zimmerman’s defense strategy is just stating facts.
Your bullshit is not "Zimmerman’s defense strategy".
Martin attacked Zimmerman, was younger, stronger, seen by a witness to be on top of Zimmerman raining blows on him "MMA style", and shown by Z's injuries to have been banging Zimmerman's head on the concrete. The only defense strategy needed was to point out that Zimmerman had every right to shoot him in self defense.
Don't lie. Of course George Zimmerman had zero culpability.
He saw Trayvon Martin come into the Twin Lakes development through a hole in the fence and behave like he was looking to break into Zimmerman's neighbor's houses. (In fact, before being suspended, Martin was found in possession of a large screwdriver and burgled jewelry.) GZ called the cops and tried to keep Martin in sight, but lost track of him. On his way back to his car Martin attacked him and GZ shot him in justified self-defense.
GZ committed NO crime.
Kyle Rittenhouse is on video punching a girl…that doesn’t make him guilty of murder.
A serious case of "sharing a sidewalk with a black man while not black". I'm puzzled why he wasn't charged with that offense; Perhaps because it isn't actually a crime?
Trayvon was walking while Black…that’s probable cause of a crime!
Sam, you're a dupe. Martin wasn't the 14 year old skinny kid that was in the picture the media was parading around during the time. He was a large, hulking man who was bigger than Zimmerman himself.
The utter misinformation and lies people tell each other to make themselves believe in bullshit.
Zimmerman described him as a teenager to the 911 operator…and the Sanford PD recommended manslaughter charges because Zimmerman’s behavior was so bizarre. Zimmerman had multiple instances to de-escalate the situation and each time he chose to make it worse…and he was the adult.
The elements for a manslaughter charge were not present.
The DA decided to not charge anything. At all.
That’s wrong, the initial SA wasn’t able to interview the girl because she wouldn’t cooperate with them.
Brett, what was his justification for stalking a resident walking home? “I thought the black kid was a criminal” doesn’t work, because turns out the kid wasn’t.
Turns out Zimmerman’s racial profiling sucked, primarily because he was an incompetent amateur. His actions and decisions caused that kid’s death.
Uh, no. It was a series of his own really bad decisions that caused Mr. Martin's death.
You're using the term "stalking" colloquially, not legally.
Actually Martin WAS a criminal. His school's police department took burgled goods off him after he was seen painting graffiti on lockers but, in order to keep their criminal stats down, they didn't turn him or them over to the real police.
"Brett, what was his justification for stalking a resident walking home?"
The only justification he needed was his equal right to be on that sidewalk.
Like I said, you're accusing him of "sharing a sidewalk with a black, while not being black". With an additional count of "looking at him, too". Serious offenses indeed! [/sarc]
Something that has honestly shocked me in the left wing reaction to the whole Zimmerman/Martin thing, is the extent to which people on the left are willing to characterize behavior on Zimmerman's part that he had every legal right to engage in as "provocation" enough to make HIM the aggressor.
No, following somebody on a sidewalk, and looking at them, is NOT provocation! Legally AND morally, Martin was the aggressor that night, because Zimmerman never once did anything he wasn't perfectly entitled to do.
Sanford PD recommended manslaughter charges because Zimmerman’s behavior was bizarre. Zimmerman created the situation knowing he had a concealed handgun. Zimmerman also profiled Trayvon as a gang member and got all of the elements wrong because Zimmerman wanted to be the hero to win back his wife who just left him.
I'd say you were just fantasizing, but as a parody account, that's an ill defined concept to begin with.
I am so utterly tired of this stupid-ass shibboleth. If I see a criminal doing something no good, I have EVERY RIGHT to follow him to make sure I either get a good look, a license plate number or the like.
So don't you dare blame a victim for defending himself from a ghetto thug.
But Martin was not a criminal and was not up to no good. The only thug was Zimmerman
Martin was a receiver of stolen goods or a burglar, probably the latter. And his assault on Zimmerman was criminal as well.
Zimmerman said they exchanged words before coming to blows…we don’t know which party threw the first punch only that Trayvon landed the first punch. Zimmerman isn’t credible because he lied to in a national interview.
“…we don’t know which party threw the first punch only that Trayvon landed the first punch.”
If you don’t know that then Zimmerman must be found innocent.
“Zimmerman isn’t credible because he lied to[sic] in a national[!] interview.”
You lie.
Methinks the bot to which you replied is a ChatGPT implementation of a leftist who aims to provoke.
Anyone who goes against the State narrative is a bot!
Sincerely,
The Smartest Person in the Room
I'm sure those aren't nearly as bad as not getting into Harvard, judging by the relative attention different forms of discrimination have been getting in the VC comments section...
Depends. Today is a Thursday and an even numbered date. Are Asians a minority today or not? I haven’t figured out the pattern yet.
You see, in one situation, people are discriminating on race in statistically idiotic fashion, and in another situation people are acting on tips and idiots think they are being discriminated against. These are not the same thing.
re: "If it is wrong for university officials to use race or ethnicity as a crude proxy, the same goes for law enforcement."
While I generally think that police profiling should go away, the statement above goes too far. Specifically, it fails because it assumes that the use of race/ethicity as a proxy is equally crude in both decision settings. In fact, it is not. Mexican appearance in border areas has a statistically measurable predictive power that is rather a lot higher than the predictive power of self-selected racial categories for higher education need. It still may not be predictive enough for a particular purpose but that's very different from a claim of equivalence.
I'll also point out that the "exclusionary zoning restrictions" you are complaining about are overwhelmingly passed and enforced by jurisdictions well to the left of the political center. As an example of "the right must do something, too", that's underwhelming.
That said, the idea of true color-blindness in all areas of government worries me not at all.
Rossami,
My view of racial profiling is simple. Whatever the benefits to law enforcement, it is not something we should be doing.
There are a lot of things that we just don't do, even if they might improve law enforcement. I think we should include racial profiling in that set.
If the police must ignore race, why not also sex? Age? Height/weight?
"2019 Pew Research Center poll"
Usual reminder about issue polls.
"...A 2019 Pew Research Center poll found that 59% of black men and 31% of black women say they have been racially profiled by police. ..."
I'm actually surprised that the number is not larger for black males. In 2 grad schools, plus law school, I didn't meet a single black man who had not been stopped multiple times by police while driving. I'm assuming they were pretextual stops, as the cops never gave these 30-odd people any tickets. My best friend in law school was stopped several times in Westwood, Ca (ie, next to UCLA). The cops there then got to know him and his car, and ceased stopping him. Till he bought a new car, and thus began a new series of bogus stops. Until all the local cops again knew his car and knew that this vehicle was being driven by a good type of black man. What a brutal way to have to go through life in a big city.
I've been stopped a number of times without a ticket being issued.
Often because there was no good reason to issue a ticket.
And I'm white.
So, had I been black I might have said I'd been racially profiled.
But I would have been wrong.
Single family zoning is already colorblind. It protects all homeowners, not just white ones.
Plenty of blacks and others minorities in my area move to local cities with "exclusionary" zoning to get away from Somin's preferred multi family housing.
Quibble: Using "Mexican ancestry" as a way to enforce immigration law near the Mexican border is problematic in that it burdens Americans of Mexican descent. But it's not a "racial profiling." It's profiling a national origin group when looking specifically for scofflaws from that group. Doesn't mean it isn't problematic, but I don't see how Mexican ancestry related to immigration enforcement by the Mexican border is a *racial* category.
How do you think people are checking for Mexican ancestry?
Seeing what they order at Taco Bell and how short they are.
Those two things are like Grape Drink, Menthols and an absent father.
Ouch. Seriously, ouch.
If the border patrol was checking for Sicilian illegals, and was more likely to pull over people with darker complexions, would that be a racial classification? I don't mean that as a rhetorical question.
Using racial stereotypes to profile based on nationality seems like it's racial profiling and national origin profiling.
I'm also not sure if I think it matters - the fundamental problem in the behavior is the same.
Is the fact that, say, Irish people are more likely to have red hair a racial stereotype?
First, I don't think the distinction matters much; profiling on either is bad news.
Second, in America no, but maybe in England yes; racial stereotypes have some aspect of historical use to them. America's stereotypes of the Irish were not red-hair specific from what I understand.
I think you'll need to show that people of Mexican descent are easily distinguishable from persons descended from other Latin American countries. Or, for that matter, from persons descended from non-Latin American countries but who may have similar racial characteristics like brown skin, black hair, etc. Mexicans aren't all brown skinned with black hair, either. They come in blond, ginger, and brunette, too. So if they're only stopping people based on skin and hair color, that's race not national origin.
Y'all remember a number of years back... oh, probably a decade now... when Arizona was talking about its "papers please" law that gave police a legal probable cause to anyone that "looked like an illegal immigrant".
I remember an intereview with Sheriff Arpaio (this is when he was first getting national attention), the reporter asked him what he was looking for when stopping people under the laws.
The guy obviously knew he couldn't say "they look Mexican". After floundering a bit, he settled on saying he looked at their shoes. Didn't convince anyone. Anyway, that's the guy that went on to arrest people on the basis of looking Mexican (and seriously, how do you prove you aren't Mexican? Most people don't have passports, don't carry their Social Security Card of birth certificate... if you don't drive you don't even have a driver's license), made inmates wear pink underwear as punishment, overlooked all sorts of abuses in his prisons, and eventually got convicted of contempt of court (and you know how hard you gotta contempt to get a conviction on that) before being pardoned by Trump.
All of which is to say... the weird things people say when they're trying to avoid saying "they look Mexican".
It isn't prejudice to draw reasonable inferences from behavior common to a group with attributes in common. It is wrong to abuse members of a group, and those who resemble them. The matter of law to be resolved is how to protect everyone from bad behavior practiced by some members of said group. Anyone of any age or skin tone may suddenly and without provocation assault others with weapons ranging from a fist to an automobile. How can those charged with keeping the peace most effectively do their work if they must pretend that such risks are randomly distributed through the populace?
Huh. A Somin article I mostly agree with and don't feel a need to snark on. Weird.
That said, something you should keep in mind is that even in a truly "race blind" future-America, we'll still need to pay attention to race because while equality of opportunity does not mean equality of outcome, if an outcome is seriously skewed that's often a sign that the opportunities aren't as equal as advertised.
Or to put it in other words...if we want to be color-blind, we have to have someone watching for the yellow flags, and not immediately flip out when someone pipes in with "uh, hey, I found a worrying correlation here, probably needs some more investigation to make sure there's nothing inappropriate going on."
“…if an outcome is seriously skewed that’s often a sign that the opportunities aren’t as equal as advertised.”
Blacks punch way above their weight when it comes to committing violent crime. So they are also disproportionately imprisoned for such crime. If you call that result a red flag I’m going to consider you a moron.
As with universities, it will be hard to persuade cops to adopt strict color-blind policies, but they should certainly be made to do it.* In neither case will I be holding my breath, but it's a good goal to aim at.
*Unless, that is, the suspect is a certain skin color and the public needs to be alerted to him or her.
Advocates of color-blindness must also confront the difficulties posed by facially neutral government policies that, historically, were enacted in large part for reasons of racial and ethnic prejudice.
I'd guess the 'the way to stop discriminating on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race' crowd won't wanna do that.
I think Prof. Somin assumes too much about our meritocracy just being naturally color blind, but I (and more DEI folks than the haters on here would care to realize) share the aspiration.
Suppose we had a perfect meritocracy uninfluenced by any racial bias.
What do you believe in your heart of hearts how the outcomes would look differently?
That gets at what is merit. But lets take that as a given.
The system would be a lot better than it is, but of course outcomes wouldn't be equal! Poverty alone would be an issue.
I'd still advocate for developing our intellectual capacity in demographics that are struggling.
Activating as much of our talent pool as possible in as many directions as possible is a pretty good national priority to have.
However, there is one important upshot of your scenario: in such a world, affirmative action in higher education admission is pointless.
There would, of course, be little point to racial or ethnic profiling for immigration enforcement if the border were secure to begin with. So it's not the open borders gotcha you seem to imagine it.
Immigration enforcement at the border is kinda part of border security.
Unless…You into machine guns and mine fields yet? Or want a few more weeks of unrest in France before you go full psycho?
Biden seems to be on the right track, but Congress is the party that needs to fix the problem.
There isn’t a single “border,” though it’s talked about as if the only border we have is with Mexico. But, arguendo, let’s say we do what Sarcastr0 indicates and we mine the entire border with Mexico and we are 100% guaranteed that it’s “secure.” Over 40% of undocumented immigrants arrive on planes with visitor visas and then never return to their home country. What sort of racial profiling do you think we do on our longest border with Canada?
Brent, the border has always been “open” in a sense. The small towns on either side of the border share more in common with each other than they do with towns further inside Texas and Mexico.
People would routinely, frequently daily, cross to visit family, go to work, shop, whatever. Nobody cared. I’m not sure if all the rigamarole has changed that or not.
It has. When I was a kid, you could drive up to the border, park, and walk across without any ID. A few hours later after lunch and some light shopping we'd walk back across, still no ID†.
Later in life, just a few years after 9/11, it had already changed, so that leaving Mexico was a half-hour or so in line, and there were a lot more guards with guns. Still pretty lax for the white Americans among us, but if you looked obviously Hispanic they were a lot more critical.
Now? It can be hours if you're at a bad time.
That kind of time-delay in crossing the border has done a lot to kill the "one-city in two countries" feeling.
________
†To be clear, I was a 14 year old blond-haired white kid at the time. I'd more easily pass for Canadian then Mexican. My grandfather had an ID, I can't remember if he had to pull it out.
Yeah, we spent several years living in Corpus when our kids were small. Whenever someone would come to visit for the first time we’d take them across. Usually Matamoros, occasionally Nuevo Laredo. Like you say, just park and walk across. Very relaxed and very comfortable.
Our oldest daughter was blonde like her mom so she got touched on top of the head a lot in Mexico. For luck. Didn’t bother us - they were all nice people.
Even without the security stuff, the cartels have rendered Matamoros so dangerous you wouldn’t want to be there unless you were in a Bradley Fighting Vehicle.
Shame to think that the world has ruined what was a simple, comfortable thing.
Let's add racial gerrymandering and lopsided drug laws to the list of government racial discrimination. If you want to get upset by universities looking for zip code proxies for race, you can blame the folks that made that data easily available: GOP statehouses looking to exclude minority voters through gerrymandering and crafting drug possession laws to increase the number of minority felons who cannot vote even after they've completed their sentence. (see: Florida.)
Yes, because only the evil GOP gerrymanders.
And in the real world where most of us live it’s more the Democrats that “separate” minorities in districts because they’re trying to create majority minority districts. I mean, they don’t actually gerrymander of course, but if they did that’s what they’d be trying to accomplish.
"If you want to get upset by universities looking for zip code proxies for race, you can blame the folks that made that data easily available: GOP statehouses looking to exclude minority voters through gerrymandering..."
Can't you get that from the Census?
Blame the Founders?
And they've been doing do it in California as long as I've been alive, and "GOP statehouses" haven't been anything to get Democrats excited about for a long time here.
To be fair, the founders only wanted the census in order to reapportion the house, so the only real census question is "how many registered voters live here?". The rest is just government meddling.
Apportionment is not based on "registered voters."
Didn't SCOTUS demand the states produce majority-minority districts? How the hell do you think you pull it off without massive gerrymandering?
No, the massive gerrymandering was to prevent the majority-minority districts that would naturally occur from electing minority representatives.
I'm sure no one needs to even read this to know there is probably some pro-open boarders rant in here.
It's absolutely legit to ding Prof. Somin for repetitiveness; there is no more fair cop than that.
But why so many comments on his posts that are proudly trumpeting that they didn't read what posted, because they don't like his politics?
The Blackman-haters (I count myself among them) don't do that.
Says a lot about what kind of person Prof. Somin ticks off.
I like to predict then read. Then comment on my prediction. Its a self shit test.
That sounds like fun, actually. I'd probably make the same prediction you did!
But engaging with the piece even a little bit might be fun too. And make you look less knee-jerk nativist.
I haven't read it. If someone in the comments points to something interesting or execrable I may go look at it for context. But I'm not interested in anything Somin has to say. He has shit for brains and why waste time or brain cells reading him?
Speaking of colorblind, will Republicans still be able to focus on white males for judicial nominations?
What about discrimination by conservatives favoring white, male right-wingers with respect to government employment (judicial clerks)?
Will the Volokh Conspiracy's record on color-blindness -- the Volokh Conspirators can't see anyone who isn't white when contemplating invitation of a new blogger -- continue along its traditional, bigot-pleasing trajectory?
What? I’m sure law enforcement never racially profiles anyone!
Black drivers just get pulled over for speeding, which is suspicious. Or going the speed limit, which is suspicious. Or under the speed limit, which is suspicious.
But definitely because Black drivers are always doing something suspicious. Not because of the color of their skin, nosireebob!
Speed cameras that don't take into account the driver's race also seem to discriminate against black drivers! Who forgot to tell these AIs that reporting cars going 15+ MPH over the limit was wildly racist?
... whooOOOooosh
Claim: Black drivers are profiled and disproportionately pulled over for minor or non-offenses.
Reality: They commit more traffic violations, and more severe traffic violations to such an extent that a reasonable person would actually suspect discrimination in favor of them was happening.
The actual point: it’s not even about what speed the driver was going if “too fast”, “going the speed limit”, and “going too slow” are all viewed as acceptable reasons a LEO can give to pull over a driver.
It suggests that the speed is not the actual reason.
Fact: Black drivers commit more than their share of moving violations, so disproportionate stoppages are not entirely "racial profiling".
.
Your response: " whooOOOooosh"
Mine: That's the sound of the wind blowing through the empty space between Zarniwoop 's ears.
Reality: They commit more traffic violations, and more severe traffic violations to such an extent that a reasonable person would actually suspect discrimination in favor of them was happening.
Chance of your providing evidence for this claim: roughly 0.
SRG is wrong again:
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/813118
This isn't violations, but the fatalities are a pretty good proxy.
Or maybe Blacks are less wealthy and therefore tend to drive older, smaller, less reliable vehicles . . . and you are a disgusting bigot who is right at home at this bigoted, right-wing blog.
the fatalities are a pretty good proxy.
Nope. But I am not wrong because what I said was merely that Allutz would not provide evidence for his claim.
Oops wrong again.
https://www.propublica.org/article/chicagos-race-neutral-traffic-cameras-ticket-black-and-latino-drivers-the-most
Or the license plate light is out. Or a brake light. Or a turn signal. Or they crowded the center line. Or they crowded the breakdown lane. Drove too slow. Or too fast.
It’s so common it’s been given a name - pretext stops.
The response to your original post completely missed its point.
Yep. Though I think it's actually the DEA that is the master of presenting post-hoc rationales for searching people that conveniently elide race. Per Rodney Balko:
And seriously, position on deplaning as a basis for a search? That's a function of where your seat on the flight was!
re: racial profiling
Let’s say criminal statistics in a certain jurisdiction show that, as long as such statistics have been kept, every single perpetrator of every single violent crime was of a certain age, of a certain sex, and had a certain skin-color. Wouldn’t it make sense for law-enforcement agents to focus on such persons?
Prof. Somin’s answer: No way! That’s “discriminatory government policy”!
Refusing to notice inconvenient / unpleasant facts, and refusing to adopt commonsense policies on the basis of such facts, is the hallmark of “liberals” / “progressives.”
Yeah, and if every man in the world turned gay, that'd be a problem too.
But like your hypothetical, that one is so un-serious that we shouldn't base policy decisions on it.
not a humanity ending problem, though. Quite a while ago - ~30 years, I think! - I knew a lesbian couple that conceived via a turkey baster donation from a gay male friend.
Lol. In high school health as a sophomore our “teacher” was a student teacher from MSU. In that era health class incorporated sex ed, so we got ours from a 21 year-old early ‘70s stoner. Sex ed consisted primarily of college party stories - the only one I remember is about a girl who was afraid that she’d been impregnated the night before so her morning after treatment was to shake up a bottle of coke and douche with it.
When all you have is home remedies, you make it work I guess.
If Blacks commit most of the crimes, then Blacks are going to be most of the suspect. That is what Somin is complaining about.
Blacks do not commit most of the crimes.
Race and Violent Crime - Eugene Volokh
So, yeah, technically, averaging the whole country, and crimes in general, blacks are not committing most of the crimes. Only because they're heavily outnumbered by non-blacks, they certainly punch way above their weight.
For murder and non-negligent homicide? Yeah, actually they do commit the majority of those crimes, despite being so heavily outnumbered.
Good lord how many ways did you need to change Roger S's ignorant bigotry to turn it into something you were willing to defend?
And, of course, even then your statistic is useless without addressing confounding factors.
Looking at the pure correlation is just another way to rationalize being racist against black people.
Did you know that the linked post actually addressed confounding factors?
Look, if Roger is right about something, then he's right about it, and it's senseless to attack his motives for saying it.
The fact is that blacks have a very high crime rate in the US, high enough that they're actually responsible for a majority of some categories of crime despite being under 20% of the population. This also implies that anywhere that's got a more than slightly above average percentage of blacks stands a good chance of them being responsible for a majority of ALL crime.
This is confirmed by multiple sources of information, including victimization surveys, so if you want to claim that blacks are racist for reporting that they were assaulted by other blacks, go ahead, look like an idiot.
A natural consequence of this is that blacks are going to be interacting with the police at a disproportionate rate. And should be, because if the police just blew this off, who would be suffering? Yeah, other blacks, the primary victims of black crime.
Now, standard disclaimers: Most blacks, like most whites, aren't criminals. And these statistics tell you nothing about individual cases. But if you're going to complain about statistics, you have to be willing to look at statistics!
But he wasn't right. You admit that. He was wrong. Obviously wrong. Dunno why you defend him when you argue an utterly different thesis than he does.
He doesn't think Prof. Somin is a Real American. He's a bigot, Brett.
The fact is that blacks have a very high crime rate in the US, high enough that they’re actually responsible for a majority of some categories of crime despite being under 20% of the population.
Which is a useless stat unless you control for class and urbanity etc.
I'm not saying there isn't an issue, I'm saying your use of stats is innumerate and I know you're not that. So quit pushing the Stormfront story and cite something that does the work on confounding variables.
Sarcastro, this entire subthread here is about black crime rates. Nowhere here has Brett defended Roger’s comments on Somin, which means you even bringing it up is irrelevant, and you’re using it as a blatant ad hominen to try to get Brett to stop discussing black crime rates.
As for controlling for “class and urbanity” (Urbanity, heh), got any evidence that your controls would change things? After all, the primary victims of black criminals are the black residents in the same neighborhoods. Same class, same race, same level of urban development. It’s true in the Bureau of Justice Statistics reports for violent non-fatal crimes, for fatal crimes, AND in the NCVS reports for crime victimizations. Blacks were also more likely to report crimes to police than whites, so don’t pretend this is just a reporting artifact, either.
If you want to claim that there is some factor that determines this difference that somehow goes unnoticed, despite the decades of analysis of this data by the government and hundreds of other groups, well, go ahead and tell us! It will be very interesting, I’m sure. But in the meantime, you should try something other than accusations of racism and innane personal attacks when you want to make an argument.
"So, yeah, technically" is absolutely defending Roger, dude.
As for controlling for “class and urbanity” (Urbanity, heh), got any evidence that your controls would change things?
That is not how this works at all. A correlation that claims to be causal and doesn't address confounding variables is wrong. Full stop. No speculation or bringing in collateral facts to argue maybe it's wrongness isn't material.
Do the fucking work.
Defending Roger's statement that blacks commit most crimes, sure. But that's not what you were attacking Brett for; you were trying to paint Brett as racist because Roger, elsewhere, complained about Somin. That's bullshit, even for your low standard of argument.
And for statistics, well, we have long ago established you have no idea what you are talking about, so it isn't any surprise to see you re-establishing your ignorance here.
"Blacks commit most violent crimes" or "blacks commit crimes at significantly higher rates than their population size" are descriptive statistics, not causative claims. They're not even correlations at all! Just facts. No 'speculation', and despite your pretense, there is no "wrongness" here (material or otherwise).
You seem to be trying to claim that 'class' and 'urbanity' (heh) are confounding variables, but you have failed to present any evidence of this. It is your argument, so it is up to you to present that evidence, or have it disregarded.
So, want to try again? This time, with evidence, rather than unhinged ranting and racist accusations.
As far as racial profiling near the border and in black communities goes, it would go a long way to have strict Reasonable Suspicion standards that are enforced and the elimination of Qualified Immunity or at least a serious curtailment of it.
You're trying to argue against disparate impacts while ignoring that eliminating disparate impacts is completely impossible. I'll stick with eliminating explicitly racist government policies.
Here's a hypothetical extracted from real-world instances.
A black community is forcibly relocated thanks to eminent domain during the construction of an interstate, the route being chosen because of a policy of minimising the impact on white communities and deliberately splitting or disrupting black communities regardless of the most efficient or cheapest route.
Two generations later, the interstate needs to be redeveloped - a new interchange, etc. Owing to the existing positioning of the interstate, the most efficient location for the redevelopment turns out to require the relocation of the previously relocated black community. A current colour-blind policy would be to look at the current situation without consideration of the nature of the community to be relocated - whetther white, Hispanic, black, whatever. But had it not been for the prior race-driven route selection, the black community now would not have been affected. Yet if you choose an alternative route, costing more, and relocating a white community, that community would say, not unreasonably, hey, we weren't around when the prior racist policy was implemented.
America will never be color blind as long as we have a "diverse" population with different inherent abilities.