Today in Supreme Court History: June 17, 1963

6/17/1963: Sherbert v. Verner is decided.

Comments

[Dan Schiavetta]

Fulton v. City of Philadelphia, 593 U.S. --- (decided June 17, 2021): Free Exercise Clause prevented City from requiring placement agencies (including Catholic ones) to accept same sex couples for foster care program (for years I defended Catholic placement agencies and this is one of many places where the people “on the ground” disagree with Church teaching; at no point in this case does anyone feel free to point out the open secret, that the Church’s opposition to same-sex unions is by now practically a laughingstock to its own flock)

School District of Abington Township v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (decided June 17, 1963): banned daily Bible readings in public school (“ten verses . . . without comment”) as violating First Amendment Establishment Clause even though parent could request child be excused (following up on Engel v. Vitale, 1962, which banned school-led prayer) (the verses were chosen by the homeroom teacher; I would have read from Song of Solomon)

Sherbert v. Verner, 374 U.S. 398 (decided June 17, 1963): denying unemployment benefits to Seventh Day Adventist because she refused to accept jobs where she had to work on Saturdays violated her free exercise First Amendment rights and no “compelling state interest” in forcing her to accept Saturday work (easy to see that; lots of jobs don’t require weekend work -- but what if she was a Third Day Adventist and couldn’t work on Tuesdays?)

​Nestlé USA v. Doe, 593 U.S. --- (decided June 17, 2021): Alien Tort Statute (which allows foreigners to sue in United States courts) did not extend to allegation by plaintiffs from Mali that they were trafficked as child slaves to harvest cocoa; Court would not recognize fourth overseas tort aside from the three already recognized (violation of safe conduct, infringement of rights of ambassadors, and piracy)

Virginia Uranium v. Warren, 587 U.S. --- (decided June 17, 2019): state mining laws are not preempted by Atomic Energy Act (here, Virginia bans mining of uranium)

Int’l Brotherhood of Teamsters v. Vogt, 354 U.S. 284 (decided June 17, 1957): upholding ban on picketing of gravel pit because purpose was not to punish owner but to coerce workers to join union, citing Wisconsin statute prohibiting picketing if no labor dispute

Head v. New Mexico Board of Examiners in Optometry, 374 U.S. 424 (decided June 17, 1963): New Mexico statute prohibiting advertising of optometrist prices applied to enjoin ads in New Mexico newspaper and radio station placed by optometrist located in nearby Texas

Powell v. Texas, 392 U.S. 514 (decided June 17, 1968): disallowing “I can’t help it -- I’m an alcoholic” defense to charge of public intoxication is not Cruel and Unusual Punishment (distinguishing Robinson v. California, 1962, which held that being a drug addict by itself is not a crime, because that’s a status, not an act)

Cardwell v. Lewis, 417 U.S. 583 (decided June 17, 1974): no warrant needed for examining tire treads and taking scrapings of exterior paint of car impounded from public parking lot after owner was arrested for murder

​California v. Texas, 591 U.S. --- (decided June 17, 2021: neither States nor citizens had standing to contest individual mandate of the Affordable Care Act; can’t show injury because mandate was revised to $0

[The Margrave of Azilia]

"the Church’s opposition to same-sex unions is by now practically a laughingstock to its own flock"

Why not flock over to the Episcopalians, or the Presbyterian Church USA?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Certain people should stick with the Catholic Church. Those people also seem natural candidates to be Penn State or Baylor fans, Trump supporters, and Southern Baptists.

Disaffected, gullible, obsolete people.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Recall that Kirkland's frequently-posted list of deplorable clinger bigotries includes anti-Catholicism.

He can't even keep his own talking points straight, which is curious since he posts them obsessively (as if he were on the spectrum).

[Frank Drackman]

wow, disgraced Penn State Coach Jerry Sandusky, insulting the fans who allowed him to continue his rain of terror for decades.
OK, if I was Coach Sandusky, I'd probably insult them too.

Frank

[Dan Schiavetta]

Margrave

There’s a lot more to being a Catholic than agreeing or disagreeing with the hierarchy on certain positions — particular family and sex issues, about which bishops are uniquely ill-informed.

[Mr. Bumble]

Care to expand on that?

[Dan Schiavetta]

I’m at a bar beginning my second martini after a concert, but I’ll try my best to give due to the faith I was raised in but rejected (and I’m not going back).

The “real presence” — it does mean something. It can’t be described in words but human speech is inadequate for it.

Mary: it’s the only place where Christians actually pray to a female semi-diety.

A worldwide church, more diverse than any other religion. Embraces all colors and cultures, not just in acclamation but in fact.

A social services network that grew with the faith over the centuries and which no other religion can match.

Other, irrational reasons. But then again, religion itself is irrational.

Probably more things that I can’t think of right now.

[Mr. Bumble]

Thanks. Now quit posting and enjoy your drink.

[Dan Schiavetta]

I’m not as think as you drunk I am!

[Mr. Bumble]

Just don't pick up any strippers!

[Dan Schiavetta]

One of my old girlfriends was a stripper.

Actually, two were.

That's not how I met them, of course.

That is a story for another time.

[Frank Drackman]

It's like being Jewish, just because I'm Jewish doesn't mean I can't enjoy some Jimmy Dean Pork Sausage once in a while, J-Hovah's an understanding Surpreme Being (For my sake, he better be) and he has a sense of humor, just look at Jerry Nadler, that's what happens when Jay-Hey has an off day.

Frank

[Brett Bellmore]

"no warrant needed for examining tire treads and taking scrapings of exterior paint of car impounded from public parking lot after owner was arrested for murder"

I can see examining the tire treads, that's just observing the openly visible. But taking scrapings from the exterior paint necessitates actually damaging the car!

[Dan Schiavetta]

True!

(unless . . .
I had a bumper sticker on my 1973 Datsun 610: “This is not an abandoned car!”)

[Frank Drackman]

I like that, but C'mon man, you had to have had one of these at some point, (I never did, too big of a pussy)
1: "You touch-a my car, I break-a you face!"
2: " Ass, Grass, or Gas, nobody rides for free!"
3: "My Boss is a Jewish Carpenter" my first car had that one, friggin dude laminated it on with super glue, tried scraping it off, finally just left it, got me out a few tickets, and a few dates with some Goyim chicks

Frank

[Gandydancer]

So? Searches here no warrant is required often damage property. Recourse is application for reimbursement or a civil suit.

[defaultdotxbe]

I would have read from Song of Solomon
Same.

7 Your stature is like that of the palm,
and your breasts like clusters of fruit.
8 I said, “I will climb the palm tree;
I will take hold of its fruit.”

[Dr. Ed 2]

I much prefer the King James version:

7 This thy stature is like to a palm tree,
and thy breasts to clusters of grapes.
8 I said, I will go up to the palm tree,
I will take hold of the boughs thereof:
now also thy breasts shall be as clusters of the vine,
and the smell of thy nose like apples;

[Dr. Ed 2]

"School District of Abington Township v. Schempp, 374 U.S. 203 (decided June 17, 1963): banned daily Bible readings in public school ... (the verses were chosen by the homeroom teacher; I would have read from Song of Solomon)

The policy usually said something like "an appropriate reading" -- most schools had the adjective "appropriate" somewhere because back then they knew the Bible well enough to know that something like that was in there.

[not guilty]

Re: School District of Abington Township v. Schempp. Ezekiel chapter 23 would likewise have made for interesting reading — the adventures of two harlot sisters. Vv 18-20 (NIV):

18 When she carried on her prostitution openly and exposed her naked body, I turned away from her in disgust, just as I had turned away from her sister.
19 Yet she became more and more promiscuous as she recalled the days of her youth, when she was a prostitute in Egypt.
20 There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.

[Michael P]

Groomers gonna groom.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

I certainly wouldn't support reading that stuff to public-school students, but I would hope that metaphors evoking bestiality wouldn't be sexually arousing.

[not guilty]

The point is that those who call for religious exercise in public schools should perhaps be careful what they wish for.

Dare we hope that they may discover a deity who doesn´t need help from Caesar?

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Perhaps we should consider going back to the ideas of that deplorable right-wing reactionary, John Stuart Mill:

“If the government would make up its mind to require for every child a good education, it might save itself the trouble of providing one. It might leave to parents to obtain the education where and how they pleased, and content itself with helping to pay the school fees of the poorer class of children, and defraying the entire school expenses of those who have no one else to pay for them. The objections which are urged with reason against State education, do not apply to the enforcement of education by the State, but to the State’s taking upon itself to direct that education; which is a totally different thing. That the whole or any large part of the education of the people should be in State hands, I go as far as any one in deprecating.”

https://gutenberg.org/files/34901/34901-h/34901-h.htm

[Dan Schiavetta]

Mill was home schooled. He did not have a good perspective. In fact it was probably home schooling that led his breakdown.

He also predated the modern public school system. The truth is the only countries without one are poor and backward.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

I didn’t post the entirety of Mill’s long paragraph because I didn’t want a Lathropesque wall of text, but here’s another portion of the paragraph where I think he addresses some of your sentiments about the poor and backward countries:

“An education established and controlled by the State, should only exist, if it exist at all, as one among many competing experiments, carried on for the purpose of example and stimulus, to keep the others up to a certain standard of excellence. Unless, indeed, when society in general is in so backward a state that it could not or would not provide for itself any proper institutions of education, unless the government undertook the task; then, indeed, the government may, as the less of two great evils, take upon itself the business of schools and universities, as it may that of joint stock companies, when private enterprise, in a shape fitted for undertaking great works of industry, does not exist in the country. But in general, if the country contains a sufficient number of persons qualified to provide education under government auspices, the same persons would be able and willing to give an equally good education on the voluntary principle, under the assurance of remuneration afforded by a law rendering education compulsory, combined with State aid to those unable to defray the expense.”

So in the early process of development of a country, sure, have a government-run school system as a lesser evil, and even in developed countries, have some government schools "for the purpose of example and stimulus, to keep the others up to a certain standard of excellence." How else could the nonpublic forms of education be kept up to snuff without a public option?

[The Margrave of Azilia]

And if the concern is that homeschooling will produce a bunch of John Stuart Mills, that result can be avoided by banning homeschooling like Germany does. The Germans still have government schools and private schools competing with each other.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

Someone wrote a short story about religion in schools. Before schools taught religion, the father was constantly complaining about no religious teaching. Once they started teaching, he discovered they were teaching the wrong kind, and as the story developed, he got more and more strident about what parts his kid was supposed to opt out of, until by the end he couldn't get religious teaching out of schools fast enough.

It was a fun story, obvious as fuck, but well-written, and some people need to have that kind of obviousness.

[Dan Schiavetta]

People urging religion in public schools always want Christian religion. Every time I read one of these cases I think: “one word: Jews!”

I wonder how the Court would have ruled in Bremerton v. Kennedy if the coach had said a Muslim “Du’a”.

[bernard11]

When I was in public school the Lord’s Prayer was recited every morning.

I didn’t like it, still don’t, but if I had been on Jeopardy when this happened I might at least have gotten some cash out of it.

This week, three contestants also failed to answer a question on Tuesday’s episode, asking them to complete a line of the “Lord’s Prayer.” The clue read, “Matthew 6:9 says, ‘Our Father, which art in heaven,’ This ‘be thy name.’”

Amazing. I blame CRT.

[Dan Schiavetta]

I can say it backwards!!

(no actually I can't)

(I can say all 118 chemical elements backwards though!)

[Mr. Bumble]

That might be useful somewhere. Probably not. Keep drinking.

[Frank Drackman]

H He Li Be B C N O F Ne Na Mg Al Si P S Cl Ar K Ca
thats all you had to know for the MCAT

calling bullshit on your claim, lets just here 21-30

Frank "Wapner's on at 4"

[SRG]

I wonder whether School District of Abington Township and Sherbert would have been decided the same way today...

[not guilty]

Kennedy v. Bremerton School District, 597 U.S. ___ (2022), would suggest that no Establishment Clause precedent is safe.

Quite apart from the legal merits, the irony is that Coach Kennedy is a self-styled ¨Christian¨ — never mind the words of Jesus about ostentatious public displays of piety and prayer:

Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
* * *
And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

Matthew 6:1, 5-6 (NIV)

If Coach Kennedy is given an enema, we could probably bury his remains in a cigar box.

[SRG]

Ah, but according to Gorsuch, Kennedy was praying in private…

FWIW as I am fond of observing, Jesus says not a word about abortion nor homosexual conduct, but he is unambiguously scathing about hypocrisy.

[Mr. Bumble]

You care about what Jesus said?

[Dan Schiavetta]

A great deal of what Jesus said, atheists would have no problem with.

Proselytizing Christians could make a lot of hay with it, if they weren’t more concerned with spreading ignorance and prejudice.

When he said, “What you do to the least of us, you do to me,” it was a gift to the human race. And the way he calls out hypocrisy and greed and prejudice has not, in my view, been surpassed.

“Always sit in the back.” — Jesus

[Dan Schiavetta]

BTW that’s from Luke 14:7 - 31, which deserves a reading once in a while.

[Frank Drackman]

Jesus Wept. What a pussy!
But He was pretty good in there that Friday, he didn't come down from the Cross because it wasn't his play. His gang was a pretty yellow crowd though, when they saw Him up on the Cross, they didnt' want any of it. Only his girl showed up, nice looker too. (Curtain)
Frank

[not guilty]

Well, Simon Peter cut off an ear of the high priest´s servant. Jesus told him to put away his sword. (John 18:10-11)

[SRG]

No. I care what people who claim to be Christians attempt to do in the name of Jesus while ignoring the actual words of Jesus.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

"Jesus says not a word about...homosexual conduct"

Not only was Jesus homophobic, he was transphobic, too:

"The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

/Matthew 19:3-6 (KJV)

[bernard11]

I think he was out sick from Sunday School the day they talked about not bearing false witness.

[Dr. Ed 2]

"the Church’s opposition to same-sex unions is by now practically a laughingstock to its own flock"

Not to those whom Catholic Charities are bring in (with taxpayer money) from Central America.

[Mr. Bumble]

Or pre Castro Cuba? Fredo knows.

[bevis the lumberjack]

Not_g is a racist misogynist who apparently has done kinks.

[Mr. Bumble]

Priests?

[Frank Drackman]

Queenie, for once have to agree with you, as a Flight Surgeon, learned how to do "refractions" (it's not that hard, Whoa! thats what she said!) or eyeglass prescriptions, and for years could order my glasses on line, but some 10 years ago they started requiring an Optometrist Rx, which thanks to J-hova, is when I got my Cataract, and no longer need glasses. But it's a racket. Pair of Raybans should be $5, $10 max

Frank

[Frank Drackman]

Fredo knows stuff! He's smart! Not Dumb, like everyone says!

[The Margrave of Azilia]

“All that has been said of the importance of individuality of character, and diversity in opinions and modes of conduct, involves, as of the same unspeakable importance, diversity of education. A general State education is a mere contrivance for moulding people to be exactly like one another; and as the mould in which it casts them is that which pleases the predominant power in the government, whether this be a monarch, a priesthood, an aristocracy, or the majority of the existing generation, in proportion as it is efficient and successful, it establishes a despotism over the mind, leading by natural tendency to one over the body.”

What's wrong with "diversity of education"? Diversity is good, is it not?