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Georgia Campus Carry Rules Upheld Against State Constitutional Separation of Powers Challenge
From today's unanimous Georgia Supreme Court decision in Knox v. State, written by Justice Ellington:
Five University System of Georgia ("USG") professors filed suit to block a 2017 statutory amendment that removed public colleges and other public postsecondary educational institutions from the statutory definition of "school safety zone." Before the 2017 amendment, carrying or possessing a weapon on any real property or in any building owned by or leased to any postsecondary educational institution was a misdemeanor, and the 2017 amendment decriminalized that conduct. The professors alleged that, as a result of the 2017 amendment, the Code requires the Board of Regents, the USG, and USG institutions to permit persons to carry or possess weapons on the campuses of public postsecondary educational institutions, contrary to longstanding USG policies.
The professors sought a declaration that the statutory amendment is unconstitutional as applied because it usurps the Board's constitutional authority to govern, control, and manage the USG and its member institutions…. In the complaint, the professors articulated in detail reasons they believe that the revised policy regarding the carrying of weapons on USG campuses, following the 2017 statutory amendments, greatly increases the risk of injury and death to themselves, their students, and other persons on USG campuses, and significantly impairs their ability to fulfill their role in the educational mission of the USG…. The professors alleged that they are injured by what they deem a "separation-of-powers violation."
No, said the court, because the Georgia Board of Regents had itself changed its policies in response to the 2017 amendment:
[A]fter years of opposition by the Board and USG institution leaders to proposed "campus carry" legislation, the General Assembly in 2017 amended the definition of "school safety zone" to remove the criminal penalties for carrying weapons on college campuses, with several exceptions…. [But a]fter the governor approved HB 280, the Board's chancellor provided guidance to USG institutions to "implement the law as written" and called for each institution to "review its campus conduct and weapons policies to ensure that they comply with these changes to the law." The Board of Regents then amended its Policy Manual and adopted a weapons policy, applicable to all USG institutions, that largely mirrored the 2017 statutory amendments ….
[The professors argue] that, "[a]s a matter of law, a separation-of-powers violation is not mooted by the fact that the encroached-upon entity has acquiesced—or even affirmatively approved of—the encroachment." …
The professors acknowledge the absence of Georgia precedent for this principle and cite as persuasive authority several United States Supreme Court cases. But even assuming we found these federal cases persuasive, they do not lead to a conclusion in this case that the professors' claims are not moot. These federal cases share a common thread that does not run through this case. In those cases, a legislative act challenged on separation-of-powers or Tenth Amendment grounds directly caused the harm complained of, such that some indication of agreement with the legislative act by the allegedly-encroached-upon entity could not moot a challenge to the legislation. Here, in contrast, the Board formally took its own action to adopt a particular policy, and it is this policy, not any legislation, that is causing the state of affairs about which the professors complain.
In determining that this action by the Board moots the professors' challenge to the 2017 amendment, we do not concern ourselves with why the Board took this action. We do not look behind the exercise of government power to determine the subjective reasons—legal, political, or otherwise—for a particular action, so long as the action was within the government actor's authority. Indeed, it is difficult to conceive of a significant executive- or legislative-branch action where the knowledge of the positions of various other governmental actors will not factor into the decision.
Here, what matters is not why the Board adopted the policy in question, but merely that it did do so. Granting the only relief the professors seek—a declaration that the 2017 amendment to OCGA § 16-11-127.1 constituted a separation-of-powers violation—would not eliminate the harm of which the professors complain, because it would not eliminate the immediate source of that alleged harm—the weapons policy adopted by the Board. That this sought-after relief would not redress the professors' stated grievance means that this case is moot….
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The professors' claim appears to be that the legislature is constitutionally required to criminalize guns on college campuses, or is required to criminalize guns if the regents want guns criminalized despite voting otherwise.
I think their argument (which requires a better understanding of the Georgia constitution than I intend to acquire to evaluate) is that the decision about criminalization needs to lie with the regents. If that’s right, the fact that the regents accommodated the putative legislative overreach doesn’t seem like a very persuasive justification for upholding it. (Needless to say, I hope, I condemn the professors’ hoplophobia and do not want Georgia students and faculty to have to endure their misguided policies.)
If the decision belongs to the board of regents — something that seems unlikely but which I don't have sufficient (read: any) knowledge of Georgia law to opine about — then how would individual professors have standing here? That the regents accommodated the legislature should be dispositive.
I can say that here in California, this sort of thing probably would lie with the Regents, because we have constitutional doctrines insulating them from the Legislature.
But I have no idea on Georgia, and thus no opinion on this case.
When does a board of regents get to define criminal actions in any other contexts? It seems odd to me that a group of unelected and relatively obscure officials would have such authority.
An owner or proprietor of private property can tell someone to leave for being armed...or wearing a Pride T-shirt.
The person refusing to leave would be trespassing.
You think the regents or professors own the university?
They are proprietors.
An owner or proprietor of private property can tell someone to leave for being armed…or wearing a Pride T-shirt.
The person refusing to leave would be trespassing.
But the proprietor doesn't get to declare/define what is/isn't criminal trespass. He simply gets to to avail himself of a statutory provision enacted by the legislature.
If the regents could decide to have gun-free zones on campus that wouldn't redefine criminal trespass. It would merely order campus authorities to order gun-bearing individuals to leave, and their refusal would then be ordinary un-redefined criminal trespass.
If the regents could decide to have gun-free zones on campus that wouldn’t redefine criminal trespass.
I didn't say that it would. I was responding to ME's example involving trespass, which itself has nothing to do with the Georgia case.
“…the fact that the regents accommodated the putative legislative overreach doesn’t seem like a very persuasive justification for upholding it.”
The decision DOESN’T “uphold” the legislature’s authority to deny to the regents the authority to make the USG campuses into gun-free zones. Any such upholding (or overturning) will have to await the creation by some postsecondary authority of a controversy for a court to decide.
Or, the legislature can't write a statute to change a previous statute giving the Board of Regents some authority.
That relies on the constitutional structure of the Georgia state government.
The Board of Regents is an artifact of a legislative statute. See section 20 of the Georgia Code.
That’s not their argument. The legislation prohibited “any board” from regulating weapons more stringently than state law.
If the legislature had simply repealed the law making carrying weapons on campus a crime, the Board could have still have had its own rules prohibiting weapons on campuses. And while violating the rules would be decriminalized, they could still be enforced civilly by treating the violater as a trespasser or similar. Under the legislation, they have no power to do that.
The professors’ argument was that the Board had really wanted to continue prohibiting weapons, but the legislature prevented that. The Georgia Supreme Court’s opinion was basically that only the Board can assert what it really wanted to so if different from what it actually did. All other parties have to accept what it actually did at face value.
As I read the opinion, the Board could file a suit asserting this argument if it wanted to. But the professors cannot.
That is my interpretation of the opinion as well - the Board might have standing to challenge the law but the professors do not.
I will ask these questions.
When these college campi were under “gun free zones”, were they surrounded by barbed wire?
Have guards armed with postols and shotguns guarding each entrance?
Have towers with rifle-armed guards posted?
Were guards roaming the campus conducting random searches for contraband?
Was a locker available for peoople to check their firearms before entering the gun free zone?
After the Kent State shootings in 1970, my college's security force decided to stop carrying guns. They didn't need them anyway. Nobody on campus had a gun and while I was there, there never was an incident involving guns. One student did get in trouble for possessing nunchukas.
It was a different time.
Then, as now, crime tends to be concentrated in certain geographic areas.
Those areas appear to be (1) the rough parts of large cities and (2) most of our half-educated, superstitious, bigoted, can't-keep-up Republican states.
Like this one, Coach, I mean, "Reverend" (those Quotation marks are doing alot of work) Sandusky??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ble6TA40IoU
of course the video shows the "Usual Supects" we always see in these kinds of crimes.
Frank
My bad, looks like the Video's "Age Restricted" because it shows a Diverse group of Yute's beating the shit out of a Diverse group of Marines (thats what happens when you charge Marine Corpse Veterans with murder for defending themselves) Sad when Baja California's safer than San Clemente.
Frank
The reporter says repeatedly that these were "young people", and the lighting was too dim to see who was "diverse". It's al;ways them "youths", eh?
Republican states like California, Maryland, New York and Illinois? Or do you mean cities governed by Democrats in Republican states, like St. Louis, Asheville and Austin?
From Wikipedia's murder rates page (here) the top ten states are (in order, 2020 data) Louisiana, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, Illinois, Maryland and Georgia.
You don't find California until #27 (#29 if you include DC and territories), and New York until #32 (#34).
From Wikipedia’s murder rates page (here) the top ten states are (in order, 2020 data) Louisiana, Missouri, Arkansas, Mississippi, South Carolina, Alabama, Tennessee, Illinois, Maryland and Georgia.
You don’t find California until #27 (#29 if you include DC and territories), and New York until #32 (#34).
Are you having a stroke, or are you always this incapable of understanding what you read?
That said, can you guess which party holds the office of Mayor of New Orleans, and in fact has done so for the past 150+ years?
Check the list of criminally violent states. Check the list of states ranked by educational attainment. Check the list of superstitious states. Check the list of parasitic states. Then it becomes easy to understand why conservatives have been getting stomped in the culture war by the liberal-libertarian mainstream for a half-century.
AIDS, you imbecile. Check the birth rates, globally. Look at which countries are rising economically to rival yours and the EU. Your values and worldview is losing! Dying, in fact.
Your precious American blue states are also fundamentally reliant upon immigration from outsiders because you don’t meet replacement rate. You need them precisely because they don’t believe what you believe. Yours is an evolutionarily inferior meme. You are NOT equal, AIDS.
Your desperate attempt to keep your libertarianism relevant by writing ‘liberal-libertarian mainstream' is pathetic. People younger than 30, and forever after in your country, will NOT be liberals, let alone libertarian. Your superficial ideologies are over. Wake the fuck up, you moron.
Check the list of criminally violent Zip codes, Rev.
Who’s committing the preponderance of the crime in your red team states, AIDS…?
How’s your campaign to elect the corpse of John Wayne Gacy for the next Democratic POTUS going? Have you been kidnapping and raping teenage ‘volunteers’ in to submission, or are you just killing them and sticking them in your crawlspace like your hero?
These are your fans, Volokh Conspirators. And the reason your employers would pay you to leave.
AIDS, you degenerate, parochial, uneducated American ignoramus, you are entirely unqualified to judge such matters. You also never respond on the merits because you can't.
Carry on, evolutionary dud clinger.
People commit crimes.
More people commit more crimes.
Michael E is on FIRE!
BTW, did you know there are more Dominos in NYC than in Bumfuck, Arkansas?
Weird!
It's "Dumbfuck"
umm, Dumbfuck.
"Dominos"? That's a new one.
My domino set is ivory-colored with black spots, btw, and the meaning doesn't jump out at me.
Yes. Yes it is. (CDC) The site even has a drop-down so you can see how it changes year-by-year.
Being something of a centrist on this issue, I am going to try to make the left’s argument here. I think prohibiting guns on a college campus is constitutional under Bruin.
Let’s look at who does most mass shootings. It isn’t people on the left. And that, I think, best explains how the left sees things.
As I understand it, the left’s view is that the whole 2nd Amendment business is essentially a protection racket. The 2nd Amendment folks create the problem that they then promise protection from. If it’s not perceived as enough of a problem, they simply create some more.
Rev. Kirkland, Sarcastro, etc., is that an accurate summary?
The Reverend and Sarcastro can respond for themselves, of course.
I would only like to add this framing question: what is the case to be made that expansive 2A interpretations are making the U.S. a better place?
Is that your standard for constitutional interpretation? We can ignore a provision anytime we feel it's not making the US a better place?
Vincent Lane, who was chairman of the Chicago Housing Authority in 1994, thought so.
Judge Wayne Andersen disagreed.
https://archive.md/mgil3
Let’s look at the First Amendment. Would doing away with all the exceptions to an absolute rule really make the country a better place?
Shouting fire in a crowded theatre? Slander and libel? Crime facilitation? Obscenity? Grading students in a public school? That last one is often overlooked. But any state involvement in passing one student’s writing but failing another’s, judging that one is better than another’s and attaching consequences to that judgment, requires an exception to absolute free speech.
Etc.
What makes the 2nd Amendment any different? If First Amendment exceptions aren’t so terrible, if some are even necessary for society to function, why should the 2nd Amendment work any differently?
That’s a nice strawman you’ve got there. But essentially no one is asking that the 2nd Amendment be interpreted in anything so unlimited a way as a proposal that flunking people out of school as a result of judging the quality of their written work be considered a violation of their free speech rights. The location of the current battles is what cosmetic features are to be permitted on the most common semi-automatic rifles, whether magazines of ordinary size can be banned, and whether states and localities can essentially abolish free exercise of the right to bear arms. Saying that is is crap doesn’t involve “expansive 2A interpretations” but merely eschewing crazy gun-grabbing ones.
No, and that's not what we're talking about here. ReaderY was speculating about a reason why "the left" might express hostility to expansive readings of the Second Amendment. I offered a companion question for discussion.
But to your implicit point, I would say the Amendments are not Scripture. They can be changed when their purposes expire or sour. Your response resembles the much-parodied gun-owner mantra: "but its muh raht."
That, any time you let people do as they please, all else being equal, the US becomes a better place.
All else being equal.
The burden is on you to establish that all else is not equal.
"That, any time you let people do as they please, all else being equal, the US becomes a better place."
The fun thing about libertarianism is that it always seems to he pushed by nominal Christians but it always comes down to, "Do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law," one of the fundamental pillars of Satanism. Heck, Crowley himself used the "all else being equal" bit.
Do you believe the 2A liberty is a net value to society, all else being equal and accounting for all pros and cons? I assume so, but why so hesitant to articulate the case for it?
I don't have a burden of proof. I just asked a question.
what is the case to be made that expansive 2A interpretations are making the U.S. a better place?
What is the relevance of that question to the question of whether or not a right is constitutionally protected?
And here I assumed a 2A advocate would have jumped at the chance to explain its salutary benefit for society.
I bet you can immediately defend the 1A freedoms of speech, and probably offer objective data. And the right to counsel. And the right to jury trials. And the right to be free from unreasonable search. And the right not to quarter soldiers. And the right not to be fined excessively.
And here I assumed a 2A advocate would have jumped at the chance to explain its salutary benefit for society.
And here I assumed that only a moron would think your question at all relevant…and I was right. And none of the rights you so mindlessly listed are protected because of their "value to society"...which you'd know if you weren't...well, you know.
"Let’s look at who does most mass shootings. It isn’t people on the left."
What a bizarre conceit.
"Let’s look at who does most mass shootings. It isn’t people on the left."
Citation, please.
"Numb Chucks"??
probably more dangerous to the user ( I certainly rapped myself "Up'side'da'haid" (Ebonics for "Up side of the Head") with mine more than I'd like to not remember)
funny thing is they're still illegal in CA and MA,
Frank
They were also specifically mentioned in a Wisconsin statute about age limitations that was, as I recall, (attempted to be?) mis-applied to Kyle Rittenhouse. (It actually didn’t apply because rifles were specifically exempted.)
Our Colleges and Universities have a no weapons policy. As a result of that a large number of assaults, muggings and robberies take place on the fringe of campus property. It is a well known fact that people leaving or going on to the campus are unarmed and at a disadvantage to protect themselves.
Muggers who are armed have a great advantage over muggers who aren't, whether the victim is armed or not. With minimal skill he will not only take the victim's cash but her gun. Result: mugger with 2 guns, victim unarmed and robbed.
How often does that happen?
That Marine Corpse Veteran in NYC did pretty well with just his 2 arms, of course the nutbag wasn't "armed" (get it??)
Frank
Pft. No real consideration of the realities here.
Mugging is a career, not something somebody does once only. While the mugging victim is probably only going to be mugged once, and most people will never be mugged.
So, say there's a 50-50 chance the mugger or the victim dies, flip a coin. How many muggings do you expect? Yeah, basically none, and everybody is much safer, because mugging becomes too dangerous a career.
Potential victims carrying guns doesn't have to give the victim great odds to make everybody much safer. It just has to make the crime too dangerous to be a viable career.
It is a rare mugger who gives enough of a running jump to allow the victim time to 1) realize she’s about to get mugged, and 2) get the gun out of her purse, cock it, and aim it.
Because if it's one thing petty criminals like muggers are known for it's their competence and skill in execution of their tasks.
Spoken from your extensive experience of what, precisely?
The actual evidence about defensive gun uses is rather strongly against you on this one.
Spoken from your extensive experience of what, precisely?
I'm going with the bolded part being his pet name for his own ass.
''get the gun out of her purse"
I see, you're arguing for open carry laws.
It is the rare mugger who does not present signals---body language, alertness, movement, eye contact---that indicate a possible threat. These signals are not difficult to teach people to watch for, interpret, and respond to.
Muggers who are armed have a great advantage over muggers who aren’t, whether the victim is armed or not. With minimal skill he will not only take the victim’s cash but her gun. Result: mugger with 2 guns, victim unarmed and robbed.
This bullshit claim has been made ad nauseum by clowns like you for decades, in spite of the fact that it is not in any way, shape or form supported by real-world evidence. In fact it’s not even supported by common sense given that, by their nature, those who resort to petty crimes like mugging for their living tend to be utterly inept dipshits who couldn’t pour piss out of a boot.
Ahh, one of my favorite quotes, even if it was said by a Yankee
"I've had all of this army and all of these officers, this damned Hooker, this damned idiot Meade, all of them, the whole bloody lousy rotten mess of sick-brained, pot-bellied scabheads that ain't fit to lead a johnny detail, ain't fit to pour pee out of a boot with instructions on the heel."
Frank
Meanwhile, back in the real world it turns out that criminals expend a pretty significant amount of effort to avoid armed victims if at all possible.
Most common result: Mugger has a second gun to fence.
Sometimes: Perforated mugger.
But the mugger in making his decisions has to weigh both possibilities according not only to raw probability but also in accord with the cost and benefit of the results for him.
James Holmes drove past a number of theaters showing The Dark Knight Rises to reach one that was a gun-free zone.
Actually, no. The most common result is Mugger flees the scene without a shot being fired by either side.
But the rest of your point is spot-on.
Guns save lives.
We've had campus carry in TX for about 7 years and despite the doom-mongering and lawsuits from a few loudmouth professors, it really wasn't a big deal.
However, crime still concentrates around the fringe of campus. I don't think it's about guns or lack thereof. It's that most anyone on a campus, including the campus police, can distinguish a student from a mugger at 100 yards just from body language and behavior. The muggers sense that and stay off campus.
Fentanyl laced drugs are probably what colleges should be focusing on. Every time a perfectly healthy 18 year old dies it’s from popping a fentanyl laced xanny.
Around here, it's car crashes and suicides.
It's called Evil-lution, in a billion years it won't happen.
For an ostensibly "academic" blog operated by "scholars," the Volokh Conspiracy attracts a remarkable concentration of illiterate fans. Not as many as this blog's bigoted fans, but plenty.
Blessed are the cheesemakers, Rev.
How much are these professors paid when they don't even understand "shall not be infringed"?
Too much.