Thursday Open Thread

What's on your mind? Humans only, please, no libelous AIs.

Comments

[Randal]

More dead children. Hurray, Bruen!

[Gandydancer]

Absent Bruen you imagine the tranny wouldn't have been able to buy guns in Nashville?

[Randal]

Absent Bruen and Heller... yeah, pretty much.

[Gandydancer]

Then you know as little about TN as you know about everything else.

[Randal]

What, Nashville likes dead kids? I don't think so.

Rewinding Bruen and Heller and returning to Miller would -- or at least could -- have resulted in the sort of gun culture that the Second Amendment imagines: the individual right to responsible gun ownership for the purpose of the collective defense. Not what it's become, a sort of virtue-signaling free-for-all where anyone can roll out of Wal-Mart with a semi-automatic and drive straight over to the local elementary school on a whim.

I think Tennessee would have been ok with that.

[ragebot]

Hey turdface did you even see the pix of the guns she used. They had cute little stickers on them. Only a fag would put cute stickers on a gun.

[Randal]

You have certainly named yourself accurately. Good on the self-awareness.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Only an IDIOT would put stickers on a gun -- if they are on the stock, they prevent you from seeing cracks that you kinda *do* want to see, and if on the barrel, they not only do that but also facilitate corrosion because stickers aren't designed to be heated.

But if you are a suicidal lovelorn lesbian upset that a female friend won't sleep with you, and your guns are one-time-use only, that doesn't much matter.

[BrotherMovesOn]

Shouldn't you be on the Rio Grande with your gun, shooting ILLEGAL aliens?
Oh, right, you're a pathetic coward.

[Frank Drackman]

Wrong, I knew a Navy SEAL who put "Smiley Face" stickers on all of his guns (AKM 47,SKS 56, AR-15, M!A, M1 Garand, FN-FAL, BM-59) and he was as much a fag as Wilt Chamberlain (If Wilt the Stilt was a Fag, that's the kind of Fag I want to be) said it had to do with the Duality of Ma/Yungian theory, and he just liked the idea of the last thing a Dot-Head saw before getting a dot in his own head was a 'Smiley Face"

[Gandydancer]

Except that the idea that you are entitled to own a gun only for the purpose of participating in a militia is garbage, and SCOTUS making more garbage decisions is not the solution to anything.

On the other hand the mentally ill are no doubt much more dangerous than others, despite Lefty denying this. So maybe this tranny ought not have passed her background checks.

For convenience, here is Wokapedia complaining about police initially(!) identifying her as a woman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Covenant_School_shooting

[Nige]

I'm SO glad there's been a mass shooter who you can finally refer to using socially acceptable slurs. For that and a country awash with deadly weaponry, a few dead kids must seem like a small price to pay.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Nige, if she had been born male, identified as male, and was stalking a girl -- and threatened mass murder if the girl didn't have sex with him, there would have been police involvement, a restraining order, and no guns for her.

[Nige]

All the stalkery abusive cis white males who manage to get guns for their rampages suggests otherwise.

[Frank Drackman]

Just like anyone who wears "Hells Angels" Colors and isn't a Hell's Angel should have their balls cut off, anyone who uses the term "Cis" or "Trans" and hasn't taken (and passed) Organic Chemistry should have their balls/ovaries cut off/out

Frank "Grignard Reagent, it's whats for dinner"

[Nige]

Edgebot's glitching.

[Michael P]

Did Bruen and Heller mandate a whole freezer full of Jeni's chocolate chip ice cream during the shooting?

[Dr. Ed 2]

No, blame the APA's DSM V which decreed that being a transexualism is no longer a mental illness. Under DSM IV it was, and hence she/he/it would have been considered mentally ill and denied access to a firearm.

But let's go further -- I'd like to know all of the psych meds she was on *and* was on in the past. Those things are DANGEROUS and no one is ever mentioning this.

Above and beyond this, she was a Trans Terrorist and should be viewed as such.

[Nige]

Being transexual is not a mental illness, but what difference woud that have made? It's easy to get guns, doesn't matter what anyone says or does.

[Dr. Ed 2]

It WAS -- explicitly defined as such by the DSM - IV-IR.
You can look it up.

[Nige]

It WAS. Now it isn't. Keep up. This person may have been mentally ill - one in five Americans experience some form of mental illness - but their transexuality wasn't it.

[Mr. Bumble]

Is "delusion" a form of mental illness?

[Nige]

Is the "delusion" that Trump won the 2020 election a mental illness?

[Frank Drackman]

No, and it's not a delusion if it's true

[Nige]

It is a delusion if you think it's true.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

It is if you can't tell what is true and what is fantasy.

[hoppy025]

Yeah, because you and your fairy friends are in charge of the APA. It's a mental illness, just like wanting to penetrate another dude.

[not guilty]

Hoppy025, when and where did you get your medical and/or mental health training, if any? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Voize]

18 U.S.C. 922(d) prohibits selling a firearm to someone who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution". Hale hadn't been subject to such an assessment under any edition of the DSM, and neither Gender Identity Disorder or Gender Dysphoria would have served as a basis for commitment.

Tennessee law does not restrict the sale of long guns to people based on their mental state.

[David Nieporent]

No, blame the APA’s DSM V which decreed that being a transexualism is no longer a mental illness. Under DSM IV it was, and hence she/he/it would have been considered mentally ill and denied access to a firearm.

Why do you think being a janitor gives you any expertise in either psychiatry or law?

Setting aside the bizarre phrasing of “being a transsexualism,” and setting aside that, no, you misunderstand what was required for a diagnosis of gender identity disorder under the DSM IV, being “mentally ill” does not legally preclude anyone from access to a firearm.

But let’s go further — I’d like to know all of the psych meds she was on *and* was on in the past. Those things are DANGEROUS and no one is ever mentioning this.

If by "no one" you mean lots of people. But what exactly would you do if you had that information? You don't understand them.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Absent Bruen and Heller… yeah, pretty much.

Your profound ignorance knows no bounds.

[Martinned]

You think that's an argument *against* gun control???

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

you imagine the tranny wouldn’t have been able to buy guns

Second comment. That didn't take long.

Nothing new about fags punching well above their weight

An obnoxious little black bitch

Only a fag would put cute stickers on a gun.

(No references to ragheads since yesterday, though.)

No longer must the Volokh Conspiracy launch a few racial slurs, publish a cherry-picked item about Muslims or lesbians, or toss similar red meat to its audience to incite a flurry of bigoted comments. The Conspirators have carefully cultivated a right-wing audience that has become a self-starter on gay-bashing, racism, antisemitism, misogyny, xenophobia, Islamophobia, and the like.

Mission accomplished, Volokh Conspirators. You must be so proud. And resist the temptation to rest on your laurels, Conspirators -- it has been 10 days since this blog published a vile racial slur, and just four instances of Volokh Conspiracy publication of that vile racial slur have been recorded during the first three months of 2023. You're a bit off your customary pace on vile racial slurs, Volokh Conspirators.

[ragebot]

It will be interesting to see what is in the manifesto. Also wonder how long it will take to close the case so the manifesto can be released. It is common for an administrative closure of the case when the perp is dead.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

The FBI is scrubbing references to its handlers.

[Nige]

I guess this is one of those shootings that isn't going to get classed as a false flag, for obvious reasons.

[OtisAH]

No thoughts or prayers either. They went right to the trans-bashing and pretending to be terrified of the “Day of Vengeance!”

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Yes, it's not like they need to preserve her(his) right to a fair trial...

The evidence we have heard so far suggests that this was a planned event.

[KenveeB]

I hope none of us ever see what's in the manifesto. Relevant police organizations can examine it for evidentiary value, sure. But the slavering attention given to mass shooters and publishing of their manifestos only ensures that people will continue to think mass shootings are a good way of putting their message out.

[Noscitur a sociis]

How do you feel the shooting would or could have been prevented absent Bruen?

[Randal]

See in re Gun Culture above.

[Gandydancer]

Despite the italics that’s not a case, it’s your demand that the Constitution be misinterpreted. Apparently to disallow gun ownership except to a few government-selected individuals, like politicians, bodyguards for politicians and cops. And you think that that would pass muster in TN. Because your brain is broken.

[Randal]

Apparently to disallow gun ownership except to a few government-selected individuals, like politicians, bodyguards for politicians and cops.

Uh, no. Where did you get that from? Nothing like anything I've ever said (or thought).

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

You do think such laws would have passed in TN.

[Randal]

Nope, not my argument.

[Michael P]

You didn't ever actually make an argument.

[Life of Brian]

Whew -- someone finally noticed!

[Randal]

Rewinding Bruen and Heller and returning to Miller would — or at least could — have resulted in the sort of gun culture that the Second Amendment imagines: the individual right to responsible gun ownership for the purpose of the collective defense. Not what it’s become, a sort of virtue-signaling free-for-all where anyone can roll out of Wal-Mart with a semi-automatic and drive straight over to the local elementary school for target practice on a whim.

[Michael P]

That's not an argument, that's a fever dream.

[Randal]

Maybe. Still, it's better than what you've got: nothing. Just, well, dead kids are the price we gotta pay. At least we're not tossing virgins in the volcano, right?

[DonP]

Hmmm? Not fond of the 2nd or the 10th? Probably not a fan of the 1st either, with all that "disinformation" stuff flying around. Let me guess, an automated renewal of your NYT subscription and a NYT Masthead tattoo?

[Gandydancer]

Why ask? He SAID in so many words ("What, Nashville[*] likes dead kids? I don’t think so.") that that follows directly from Tennesseeans not wanting children shot dead.

* In response to my comment about TN, so any difference in political climate between Nashville and TN -- is it like Austin? -- is not germane.

[Gandydancer]

So you endorsed undoing Bruen and Heller without knowing what they were about? Educate yourself about New York's now-gone "proper cause" requirement. Where that had gone and was heading isn't a mystery except to the determinedly oblivious.

[Randal]

Educate your own ass. New York's was a carry requirement, not an ownership restriction.

[Bob from Ohio]

"Educate your own ass"

Good advice, you should take it.

"New York’s was a carry requirement, not an ownership restriction."

It was both.

"The Sullivan Act was a gun control law in New York state that took effect in 1911.[1][2] The NY state law requires licenses for New Yorkers to possess firearms small enough to be concealed. Private possession of such firearms without a license was a misdemeanor, and carrying them in public is a felony. " wikipedia

[Randal]

Sure, in 1911. Check your watch, that was over 100 years ago.

Bruen was about concealed carry. The possession licence part had already been done away with.

[hoppy025]

No. It wasn't done away with. New York did and still does require a permit to purchase a handgun.

[Gandydancer]

Don't forget, he wants to overturn Heller too. He apparently doesn't know things even NPR knows. ("...the District passed a law... prohibiting the registration of handguns..." https://www.npr.org/2022/08/14/1113705501/second-amendment-supreme-court-dick-heller-gun-rights)

[Randal]

Yes, Bruen was about concealed carry and Heller was about home possession of handguns. I'm glad that with the help of NPR you were able to figure that out. Welcome to the world of 2A jurisprudence.

[Gandydancer]

Your ignorance is determined, but there's no reason for anyone to attempt AGAIN to educate you on the same points. When you've been totally discredited our job is done. We don't need for you to admit what anyone can see.

[Noscitur a sociis]

I'm not following.

What changed in the last 9 months that made this shooting possible? Because if there isn't something, I have trouble seeing how Bruen is to blame.

[Randal]

A serious constitutional error and its related cultural phenomenon (celebration of violence and paranoia) has gotten us to this point. Bruen is just the latest example.

[hoppy025]

No, the constitutional error was Justice Kennedy ruling in Lawrence v. Texas that you have a constitutional right to insert your erect ramrod into your "husband's" rear and spread HIV.

[Randal]

Better be careful with the militant gay stuff or you're going to get your gun rights taken away.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Toning down the militant LGBT stuff would have prevented it.

I suspect she was stalking the other girl -- if she was treated like a cisgendered male stalker with a restraining order, she couldn't have bought the guns.

That's why we aren't going to see the manifesto.
My guess -- she blamed the church for preventing the girl from believing she was a boy.

[Noscitur a sociis]

Once again Dr. Ed, please stop helping.

[Ben_]

No way to know what would have happened.

But celebration of mental illness is working out about how you’d expect it to. I wonder how many more will be killed, how many more suicides, how many more ruined lives we’ll see before people realize that fighting nature and biology was a mistake from the beginning.

[Nige]

One in five people in America experience mental illness, can you describe what you think needs to be done to these people to stop them from going on mass murdering sprees?

[Frank Drackman]

they actually commit violent crimes way less often than Afro-Amuricans Mentally ill or not

[Nige]

Oops Edgebot's back in the Daily Stormer archives.

[damikesc]

She apparently targeted the religious school because it had softer defense than her original target.

[Gandydancer]

Maybe. Or maybe the nuns or equivalent told her she couldn't be a boy. She was 28 y/o, but HAD attended there.

[Frank Drackman]

Oh, they told her the truth, how "un-woke"

[ragebot]

It will be interesting to see what the autopsy results come up with. While the libturd MSM has been reporting their usual AR-15 bullshit the vid shows the shooter firing a Kel-Tec 9mm carbine with an AR-15 on a sling over her shoulder. No vid of the AR-15 being fired; just the Kel-Tec.

[Gandydancer]

The Kel-Tec isn’t an “assault weapon” why? Isn't it a Bad Gun?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Er, the video doesn't show her(him) murdering anyone at all. The AR could have been used for that purpose. Who knows (at this point)?

[Stephen Lathrop]

ragebot, makes sense. Do the ordinary murders of defenseless kids with the Kel-Tec. Save that .223 ammo to use where it's needed more, to penetrate police body armor. Without gun pedantry, who would teach our mass shooters how best to deploy their resources?

Do you suppose you are making any point at all, except that the more-extreme gun advocates in this nation are lunatics? Keep that in mind, the next time you read pro-gun blather about stopping mass shootings by cracking down on folks with mental health problems. You can find some of that on this thread. They didn't think it through, of course, but they are talking about taking away your guns, and maybe their own.

[Dr. Ed 2]

At the risk of extreme morbidity, I’m not sure which is more lethal in a close-quarters situation like this — the smaller .223 has more energy but the 9mm (essentially .35) weighs over twice as much.

I’m not sure how accurate this is, but they list both the 9mm & .223 http://ballistics101.com/ and any measurement error ought to be consistent between the two rounds. I believe that the .223 is more likely to go through and hence not transfer all its energy, while the 9mm is more likely to have ricochet fragments large enough to be lethal. Memory is that a slower round does more damage because of something about shock waves being generated.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Dr. Ed 2, that exact comparison has been tested by law enforcement, in reference to finding out how best to arm SWAT entry teams. Look it up.

You have everything exactly backward. The .223 has more energy, but does not over-penetrate. It does dramatically more wound damage. The 9mm does less damage, partly because it holds together better, and is likely to over-penetrate.

[Absaroka]

Stephen is right. And it's not just SWAT teams - police have evaluated the complex factors for deciding on the best defensive rifle for all their officers and have almost universally picked the AR-15 platform. Simply put, it is the best defensive rifle available when you look at all the tradeoffs.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I stand corrected, thank you.

Is there any consideration that they will have fully automatic weapons and hence be able to fire three rounds (on target) in the time that one handgun round can be fired? (Or does the barrel rise so much so quickly that the 2nd & 3rd aren’t on target? I’ve never fired a full automatic.)

And there is also the matter of the rounds they may be firing, banned by the Geneva Convention and not something I wanted to mention lest the wrong person read it. I was comparing ball rounds to ball rounds...

[Absaroka]

"Is there any consideration that they will have fully automatic weapons"

Generally speaking, police use semi-auto AR's. Some departments have used surplussed M-16's, but I think that is dying out pretty quickly. There just isn't much use for full-auto in policing.

"And there is also the matter of the rounds they may be firing, banned by the Geneva Convention"

I would wager that zero police departments use ball ammo for duty use (as opposed to training), in either rifles or pistols. Soft/hollow points reduce the chance of overpenetration; it would be irresponsible for a department to not use them.

[hoppy025]

Plenty of police use MP5s, which fire 9mm rounds.

[Frank Drackman]

RFK was killed quite efficiently with a 22LR (I'd tell you...) Revolver,
shot placement is key

[Dr. Ed 2]

I'm not so sure RFK would have died today, 55 years later, with the advances we've had in neurosurgery. He lived 26 hours with what we would consider primitive medical care today.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

folks with mental health problems. You can find some of that on this thread

Yes, every time you post.

[OtisAH]

Oh no, are they misbranding the lethal weapons used to gun down teachers and children again?! Terrible. Kel-Tec should sue.

[ragebot]

"Oh no, are they misbranding the lethal weapons used to gun down teachers and children again?! Terrible. Kel-Tec should sue."

God damn right they are.

Both a Kel-Tec and the various flavors of AR-15s are long guns and that well known right wing source of conspiracy theories the FBI Uniform Crime Statistics have pointed out so many times even the left wing shit eaters should know by now the number of deaths attributed to long guns is less than 1%; not even a rounding error. Getting rid of every single long in the country would have not make any noticeable change in crime statistics. So of course that is the leftturds solution to the problem.

[Frank Drackman]

and what did the cops kill the bitch with? a slingslot?

[Jerry B.]

Well, they were in a religious school in Tennessee, so the Washington Post commentariat will be overjoyed, like they were about the folks killed in the Mississippi tornado - since only MAGA White Supremicists live in the South.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Speaking of tornadoes, seeing the weatherman stopping to pray would get me into the cellar FAST....

[Frank Drackman]

If you'd spent time in the South you'd know very few houses there have "Cellars" (we call them basements)
has to do with the water table, soil composition, and that it's really hard to put a basement in a Trailer.

[TwelveInchPianist]

And the press secretary for Katie Hobbs tweeting out violent gender ideology rhetoric right after.

[Michael Ejercito]

Funny how Blakc Lives Matter®™ looks away when the killer is not a cop.

Did Jamiel Andre Shaw's life matter?

[Frank Drackman]

No, only blacks killed by whites

[hoppy025]

When leftists say we need common sense gun laws, they mean a full ban, or pretty close to it.

[Frank Drackman]

I'd support a full ban on leftists owning guns

[hoppy025]

I'd support a full ban on leftists being allowed to breathe.

[ragebot]

Have to wonder why there has been no thread about the Nashville shooting.

[Gandydancer]

What's the legal issue?

No one's stopping you from raising it here, but you didn't.

[ragebot]

"What’s the legal issue?"

For starters why the FBI is involved if there is no hate crime charged. Next is sunshine laws about releasing the manifesto since it seems obvious who the perp was and closing the case administratively due to the perp being dead is a no brainer.

No one’s stopping you from raising it here, but you didn’t."

Eat shit and die turd face.

[Gandydancer]

Fuck you, asshole.

[OtisAH]

Why are you so nervous about fbi involvement? What are you afraid they’ll find?

[ragebot]

"Why are you so nervous about FBI involvement? What are you afraid they’ll find?"

What concerns me is not what they will find out, it is what they will cover up. How long has it taken the FBI since they got possession of Hunter Biden's laptop to determine if it really was his not to mention verifying what is/was on it. Plenty of other examples if you need them.

[OtisAH]

Ah. I wouldn’t worry about that ridiculously overwrought nonsense you’ve dreamed up. The FBI is definitely on their best behaviors what with Comer and Jordan and their top-shelf blue ribbon committees getting to the bottom (tip?) of the Biden illegal First Amendment violations pertaining to the no fair censoring of Hunter Biden’s stolen dick pics. They’re certain to have them released for your enjoyment within 12 months. In the meantime there’s always porn stars and photoshop to pull you through.

[Gandydancer]

"They’re certain to have them released for your enjoyment within 12 months."

Do you know what year it is?

Hint: The election was in 2020 and it's those bits about The Big Guy that the FBI was hiding back then.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

How could the FBI "hide" anything, when there were multiple copies made?

And of course: 2017.

[Gandydancer]

Your pretended dimness (not to mention the real component) and ignorance is impressive in its fashion, but the rest of us know about the Deep State "Russian disinformation" falsehoods and that the FBI knew that that was a lie. It's luck that there were multiple copies so that we can now know the truth that the FBI was concealing.

[Dr. Ed 2]

1: This *was* an act of terrorism -- Trannie Terrorism -- and a hate crime directed at Christians.

2: One of the purposes of the FBI is to serve as a national clearinghouse on crime and how to prevent it. An *honest* FBI would have investigated this for those purposes and shared its findings with the thousands of police departments and thousands of school departments in the country.

3: A FBI corrupted by ideology -- one that has already defined Christians as terrorists if I am not mistaken -- will spin it's findings to promote it's political agenda. The scary thing is that many of us will not believe their findings regardless because the FBI has already burnt up its credibility.

The bottom line is that school shootings are horrific OUTLIERS -- there are very few of them and hence the need of someone such as the FBI to get data from those that do.

[Nige]

'Trannie Terrorism'

Which makes almost every other school shooting Cis White Terroism?

'one that has already defined Christians as terrorists if I am not mistaken'

Where did it do that?

[DonP]

Sure, if you can explain why the CIS White guy was targeting other White CIS people because they were white and straight? Otherwise go back to your local Incel support group and discuss amongst yourselves.

[Nige]

So it's NOT terrorism if it's cis white people targeting cis white people (any non cis white victims presumably just collateral)? Gonna have to rewrite the history of the NI Troubles.

[Gandydancer]

Only if cis White Catholics shot and blew up cis White Protestants because their targets were cis and White and not because of the pseudo-religious bit. But in Looney Lefty land that's what passes for an argument.

[Nige]

I'm sorry, we don't know the actual reasons for this mass shooting yet, I thought we were obliged to speculate like wild motherfuckers and paint with the broadest brush possible until then.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Gotta drive that "engagement" somehow.

[Gandydancer]

You're projecting.

[Nige]

You're running out of words.

[Gandydancer]

...and delusional.

What you've run out of is any semblance of credibility.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I believe the shooting at the Black supermarket in Buffalo was defined as that: https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/15/us/buffalo-supermarket-shooting-sunday/index.html

And as to the FBI defining Christians as terrorists -- you really missed that????

[Nige]

According to the report it was classed as a hate crime because a white supremacist shot a bunch of black people and left plenty of written evidence to that effect.

Yes, I did miss the FBI classing Christians as terrorists.

[Sarcastr0]

Another irrelevant link from Ed – where does he get them all? Rhetoric from a state official is not the FBI making a designation.

I did miss the FBI defining Christians as terrorists, because it never happened.

[Dr. Ed 2]

See: https://christiannewsjournal.com/bidens-public-enemies-list-are-christians-domestic-terrorists/

[Nige]

Yes I can see how someone dumb enough to think one trans shooter means all trans people are violent would also make that dumb mistake.

[bernard11]

You're a total moron.

1. You have no ides if this was "domestic terrorism," or a "hate crime" or what it was.

2. How quickly do you expect the FBI to investigate this?

3. No. The FBI has not defined Christians as terrorists, you idiot.

[Kazinski]

I do wonder why the FBI hasn’t classed it as Domestic Terrorism.

Mass Shooting, check.
No known prior personal interactions or grudges with the victims, check.
A manifesto, check.

[Gandydancer]

How does any of that make it a genuinely Federal matter?

[Brett Bellmore]

Wait, you think the FBI typically only classifies genuine federal matters as "domestic terrorism"?

[Gandydancer]

No. I think the FBI normally engages in gross overreach. But that doesn’t answer my question. The Feds do OCCASIONALLY get slapped back in line when they do that sort of thing, so it may be worth asking if they are still pretending any justification for it.
Kazinski didn't.

[Kazinski]

There is a big difference between taking over an investigation, and gathering and analyzing data for crime statistics.

[Gandydancer]

There's a big difference between what you just wrote and any attempt to answer MY question, which didn't mention crime statistics at all.

[Kazinski]

Well since my original comment was only about classifying the crime, then I'll restrict my comments to that, not go off on your tangent.

[Gandydancer]

Classification is not statistics. It has other, more important, implications than its effect on statistics,

[Armchair Lawyer]

It may be anti-Catholic domestic terrorism.

[OtisAH]

It’s a Presbyterian school, which is the sort of detail that is exceedingly simple to both learn and retain.

[Gandydancer]

How nice for simpletons like you!

[Frank Drackman]

a simpleton would wipe his ass with your intelligence

[Gandydancer]

A simpleton might try, but if you have it hasn’t happened for you yet. Maybe you need to take smart pills and move up from cretin.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Thank god for ignorance?

[Frank Drackman]

He created enough of it

[Dr. Ed 2]

What makes highway safety a Federal matter?

Reality is that the 50 states can’t afford to be experts on everything, and in many cases simply defer to the expertise of other states. Look at any portable gasoline can — it will be approved by the State of California or the Massachusetts State Fire Marshal — usually both — and that is because all the other states accept the approval of either of those states rather than paying to test the cans themselves.

Nationally, Massachusetts is known for fire regulations, New York City for boiler regulations, Pennsylvania for bakery regulations and California for auto emission regulations — and a lot of states simply defer to them. And in most cases, there are good reasons why these states paid to develop this expertise — e.g. the Massachusetts Coconut Grove fire.

But in situations where there isn’t a state with expertise, it makes sense — under strict Federalism — for the Federal government to act as a clearinghouse for best practices and such. Case in point the bridge that collapsed in Iowa a decade ago -- warnings not to pile all your demo debris on the bridge and to watch your gusset plates were probably very much appreciated by the state highway departments.

Mandating compliance is something else entirely…

[Gandydancer]

"I do wonder why the FBI hasn’t classed it as Domestic Terrorism [triggering a Federal case, I gather].

Mass Shooting, check.
No known prior personal interactions or grudges with the victims, check.
A manifesto, check."

I don't think that "act[ing] as a clearinghouse for best practices and such" was what was being suggested as appropriate.

[John F. Carr]

Genuine or not, federal involvement in religious violence is supported by past practice. Dylann Roof was charged with "obstruction of exercise of religion". If he shot some people randomly on the street he would be a state criminal. Since he shot them in church he's a federal criminal.

[Gandydancer]

Past practice has involved the Feds doing a lot of stupid shit that is none of their business. Dylann Roof shot people because they were black, not because they were in a church.

[Sarcastr0]

How many other mass shootings are classified as domestic terrorism?

How many have you asked be so classified?

What the hell is going on with this shooting in particular?

[Kazinski]

Well one high profile attempted mass shooting where a congressman was shot, and dozens of others were in the line of fire was classified as "suicide by cop", until there was major pushback by Congress.

[Sarcastr0]

Well, it happened once in a pretty different situation, and also utterly different things happened?

This is some weird special pleading.

[Gandydancer]

Yes yours is. Nice that you admit it, I guess.

[Frank Drackman]

Oh, when the Bernie Sanders supporter shot Republicans??

[OtisAH]

The difference is this time they don’t have to meekly retreat behind “thoughts and prayers.” This time they can deflect from gun control policy by screeching about transsexuals.

[Gandydancer]

"...bout trannys who screech about a 'Trans Day of Vengeance' immediately before one of their celebrated mental cases goes out and gets her some."

FIFY

[Nige]

Case in point.

[OtisAH]

“No known prior personal interactions or grudges with the victims, check.”

Except, of course, the fact the shooter attended the school.

“A manifesto, check.”

Until it’s released all there actually is is some writings, probably, that the police described as “a manifesto.”

But you did properly classify the shooting so there’s that.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Don't forget the girlfriend.

[Dr. Ed 2]

Kazinski -- in fairness, remember Hinkley and *why* he shot Reagan? (Jodie Foster).

If she really sent the text messages to her friend that Boston's Jeff Kuhner reported she sent, this is a known pattern of behavior often exhibited by males when the female rejects them as a sexual partner. Usually it is a threat to kill self and tell her that she is responsible, but here I think it might have been a larger threat of telling her that something very bad will also happen and she will be responsible -- guilt tripping her later.

If this sounds pathological, it is -- a lot of relationships are very pathological...

[bernard11]

The text messages were sent to someone she hadn't seen in years, IIRC.

[Frank Drackman]

it's "He" you Crypto-Trans-Nazi-Fascist!!!!!

[Frank Drackman]

Tennessee really needs a law against first degree murder, maybe even get an Electric Chair. Surprised they haven't thought of that.

[ragebot]

Have to wonder about not just business customers with big bucks deposited at SVB but individual customers as well. Seems like there are some strange stories about maybe 10-13 accounts accounting for 80% of the SVB bailout money and the private individual accounts being the bulk of that. Not to mention some claims I can't verify that the big accounts are also heavy dem political donors.

[Gandydancer]

Largest account I've heard of is Roku at $487 million. Not an individual account.

Why anyone else should be on the hook for that is a mystery to me.

[ragebot]

“Largest account I’ve heard of is Roku at $487 million. Not an individual account.”

There were earlier reports that Opra had $US580,000,000 but now the powers that be are saying no individual account information can be released. Thing is the total of the big commercial accounts only account for about 20% of the total bailout so what is the source of the other 80%.

"Why anyone else should be on the hook for that is a mystery to me."

There are claims on the internet that big dem donors are the other 80% of the bailout.

[Randal]

Oh come on guys, are you retarded? There's no bailout here. None of this is taxpayer money. It's all other banks' money. That's how the FDIC works.

If you want to think of the FDIC as a "tax" on banks that you're indirectly paying, feel free to spin yourselves up into little furious balls of grief and paranoia.

[ragebot]

Hey Randal did you cut class the day they taught economics. Banks have to pay money to the FDIC for insurance and the more of that money that is pissed away rewarding big bucks dem donors the less money the banks have to pay interest on the deposits. So the tax payers are paying for it; just through indirect taxes.

[Nelson]

I had to read that twice because I found it hard to believe that you would actually say exactly what he said you would.

If you want to make the argument that all insurance is an indirect tax on consumers, you're fighting a very lonely battle. Insurance (and its impact on consumers) is an everyday part of the capitalist system.

Everything that increases costs to companies can't be spun as a tax, no matter how badly you try to.

You'll also have to explain why you think the phrase 'taxpayer money', which is reasonably understood to be money the government collects and spends, is suddenly synonymous with any money that people have.

Taxpayer money, as defined in reality, was not used to cover the SVB accounts. Hate it all you want, but it doesn't change the reality.

[Gandydancer]

Your understanding of reality is obtunded.

You don't in fact have to insure your house or your life.

But if you don't want to keep your money in a mattress the GOVERNMENT requires that an insurance premium be paid and anything it does to unnecessarily increase those universally applied premiums is effectively a tax.

I didn't have to read what you wrote more than once to believe that you are dumb as a box of rocks. After all, the name "Nelson" appeared right at the top.

[Nelson]

If any action or coverage is required, it is a tax, eh? That is a very broad and unsustainable definition of “tax”.

Insurance premiums aren’t a tax. You’re like a fat man trying to get into jeans that are three sizes too small. You can wiggle as much as you like, but it’ll never fit. Even with stretch fabric and vaseline.

Costs associated with doing business (whether required or not) aren’t a tax. Taxpayer dollars (the real definition of taxpayer dollars, not your weird “all dollars are raxpayer dollars” definition) aren’t paying for the FDIC to cover deposits.

[David Nieporent]

Everything that increases costs to companies can’t be spun as a tax, no matter how badly you try to.

Of course not. But everything taken by the government (at least, that's not a fine for criminal or civil malfeasance) is a tax, by definition.

[Martinned]

Unless it's payment for services rendered.

[Gandydancer]

But an extra charge for monies to pay exclusively other people THAT service (payment without insurance) isn’t being rendered to you. The government has to extract this overcharge by force and/or monopoly power, and that’s a tax.

[Martinned]

O, we agree that the FDIC shouldn't have bailed out SVB beyond the legal cap. But it's inherent in the concept of insurance that sometimes/often you pay more than you receive.

[Gandydancer]

Irrelevant. Vibrant competition should ensure that you need pay no more than what underwriting indicates you will receive plus a margin to cover administration and profit on capital, etc. That is not what is going on here.

[David Nieporent]

I said "taken by" the government, not "given to" the government.

[Gandydancer]

Not clear where you think I've disagreed with that.

[bernard11]

All bank expenses reduce the money they have available to pay interest.

Look, deposit insurance is just that, insurance. If they bought it from a private insurer it would be just the same.

Of course, no private insurer would cover the risk. So the government does, and makes it mandatory for very good reasons. Frankly, IMO, it should be required for all deposits, priced fairly.

But the bankers don't want that, especially the pricing business, so it doesn't happen.

[Absaroka]

"If they bought it from a private insurer it would be just the same."

I would expect a private insurer with a $250K policy limit to never pay more than $250K.

That's not to say I necessarily disagree with the FDIC making everyone whole, even above the limits, at least some of the time. You don't want a contagion of bank runs ... the only thing we have to fear is fear itself, as the saying goes. But I think it is distinguishable from private insurance. If the bank/the bank's depositors are paying for $250K of coverage but get $1M in coverage only some of the time, that is a transfer to the people who get excess coverage, at the expense of everyone else.

Which, again, may be good for everyone, if it avoids a general panic, but it is a transfer.

[Gandydancer]

“Of course, no private insurer would cover the risk.”

Why not, if the government weren’t giving away the extra insurance for “free” and imposing the cost on smaller deposits?

I’m not so concerned about a run on the banks by fat cats that I’m OK with giving them free stuff at others’ expense. This sort of crap isn’t a one-off. It's crony capitalism, and it's rife.

[Gandydancer]

If you HAVE to pay it on any account it's a tax, not a "tax".

But of course the "premium"/tax wasn't being paid on the Roku money because it was over the limit. So it was insured w/o a premium. Only government can get away with that kind of shit.

[Randal]

You're starting to glimpse the real problem here, which is that if the government changes the FDIC rules in a crisis, people will expect the government to change the FDIC rules in the next crisis, and plan accordingly, such as by ignoring the $250k limit. An increase in > $250k accounts will, in and of itself, put pressure on the FDIC to reimburse beyond the limit in future bank failures, effectively putting the FDIC on the hook for all deposits, nationwide. They're going to need to do something to re-establish a credible rule about what is and isn't insured.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Yes, if this were a structural problem (note hopeful tense), the FDIC would simply go broke giving away freebies like this, and then the federal government would have to step in and rescue the FDIC.

Of course, the paranoid will see this their own way, regardless.

[Brett Bellmore]

It's certainly not paranoid to recognize that they violated the rules here, using the FDIC to compensate ALL depositors, not just to the $250K limit the FDIC is set up for. A statutory limit, mind you, not invented by the regulators, and thus one that ISN'T supposed to be discretionary on the part of the FDIC.

That DOES set up an expectation that they'll do it again. Thus creating bad incentives. You see, the banks are supposed to be policed mainly by the large depositors, who are presumed to know what's going on, and be paying attention, because they have skin in the game.

Biden just took their skin out of the game. NOBODY has skin in the game anymore at the banks. It's all upside and no risk now, you think maybe they're going to be careful going forward?

And that's not to focus on the fact that the $250K limit IS statutory, and they just blew it off. That doesn't trouble you?

[Martinned]

You see, the banks are supposed to be policed mainly by the large depositors, who are presumed to know what’s going on, and be paying attention, because they have skin in the game.

Are they? Supposed by whom? Aren't you forgetting about all the other banking regulators, the auditors, the shareholders, etc?

[TwelveInchPianist]

Shareholders, maybe. The regulators and auditors don't have any skin in the game. What do they care?

[bevis the lumberjack]

The banks are supposed to be policed by the federal reserve. And the OCC. And state regulators.

The problem with SVB is that the regulators relaxed on their buddies in the business and changed the accounting rules on certain long-lived assets as to marking those assets to market so the banks didn’t have to report paper losses as the fed cranked up interest rates so fast. So the banks’ tangible equity was overstated.

The large depositors were aware of this, as were most investors, as were the regulators. The problem is that nobody considered what might happen if a bank were forced to convert those hidden paper losses to actual cash losses. Oops.

[Martinned]

@TwelveInchPianist: Because it's their job to care, and they'll get fired if they suck.

@bevis: I think you'll find that SVB thought that hedging was for suckers. I have no idea which of the dozens of banking regulators was meant to stop them doing that, but the answer is probably "several". Hopefully the Republicans in Congress will be able to find some time in the middle of their Hunter Biden investigations to hold some hearings.

[Life of Brian]

changed the accounting rules on certain long-lived assets as to marking those assets to market so the banks didn’t have to report paper losses as the fed cranked up interest rates so fast.

With emphasis on "so fast." Bond rates went from historic levels to their current peaks in less than a year. After factoring in the lag in reporting for a given accounting period, how much of an early warning would the Lehman-era MTM rules really have given, and what would have happened differently as a result? The run by SVB depositors would have started a few months sooner? The fed would have deployed a bailout package a few months sooner?

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Because it’s their job to care, and they’ll get fired if they suck.

LOL!

[bernard11]

The problem with SVB is that the regulators relaxed on their buddies in the business and changed the accounting rules on certain long-lived assets as to marking those assets to market so the banks didn’t have to report paper losses as the fed cranked up interest rates so fast. So the banks’ tangible equity was overstated.

No. The regulators didn't "relax on their buddies." Banks lobbied intensely to not have to mark those bonds to market. And they had the support of all the anti-regulation types. It's not a recent development or relaxation of the rules, which in fact, got a bit tighter about thirty years ago.

Before that the banks weren't marking to market at all. Now they have to do some of it.

[Gandydancer]

Martinned: "Because it’s their job to care, and they’ll get fired if they suck."

Were you still in short pants in 2008?
Because you sure didn't lean anything at the time.

[bernard11]

Were you still in short pants in 2008?
Because you sure didn’t lean anything at the time.

Were you?

Most of the problem in 2008 was with unregulated financial institutions doing essentially what banks do - borrow short and lend long - and doing a bad job of it, like SVB.

[Martinned]

The problem with SVB is that the regulators relaxed on their buddies in the business and changed the accounting rules on certain long-lived assets as to marking those assets to market so the banks didn’t have to report paper losses as the fed cranked up interest rates so fast. So the banks’ tangible equity was overstated.

It's worth being clear about who it was that gave his "buddies" a sweetheart deal: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/03/30/fact-sheet-president-biden-urges-regulators-to-reverse-trump-administration-weakening-of-common-sense-safeguards-and-supervision-for-large-regional-banks/

[Gandydancer]

@bernard11: Pay better attention. Mine was a reply to Martinned's “Because it’s their job to care, and they’ll get fired if they suck”, which is why I quoted THAT. Nobody was getting fired because they sucked. On the contrary they got rewarded for sucking.

[Gandydancer]

@Martinned: It's worth being clear about how gullible you think we are if you think that kind of pablum means Biden isn't responsible for what is happening on his watch.

[Gandydancer]

If they’re going to make everyone whole they ought to charge the premium on the entire amount covered.

But I already knew about the expectation problem. BEFORE I saw a debate (on YouTube) by that Indian guy running tor the (R) Prez nom and some venture capital guy who was even worse, where that was a subject of the conversation. (But they BOTH wanted a complete bailout “this time”.)

[Nelson]

"If they’re going to make everyone whole they ought to charge the premium on the entire amount covered."

Agreed.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"None of this is taxpayer money. It’s all other banks’ money. That’s how the FDIC works."

So it's not taxpayer money, it's bank customer money? Glad we cleared that up!

[Nelson]

Another person who doesn't understand how insurance works. And also doesn't understand what 'taxpayer money' is.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

So it’s not taxpayer money, it’s bank customer money?

It's banks' money...or used to be.

[Gandydancer]

When banks have a cost imposed by the FDIC that because of its universal application is not subject to competition when it is extracted from their customers that money is never meaningfully the banks’ money. It’s the FDIC (i.e., the government) extracting customer money, i.e. a tax, with the banks merely a conduit for its extraction.

I don’t expect Lefty, or anyone whose income depends on not understanding this, to admit it. Which are you? Or both?

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

When banks have a cost imposed by the FDIC that because of its universal application is not subject to competition when it is extracted from their customers that money is never meaningfully the banks’ money. It’s the FDIC (i.e., the government) extracting customer money, i.e. a tax, with the banks merely a conduit for its extraction.

That’s a meaningless argument that is just as applicable to any business cost. You’re essentially arguing that every expenditure by every business is “customers’ money”, because the cost of those expenditures is past along to those customers in the form of prices/fees/etc.

I don’t expect Lefty, or anyone whose income depends on not understanding this, to admit it. Which are you? Or both?

And with that you’ve demonstrated just how utterly clueless and prone to running your virtual mouth based on nothing but your own ignorance you really are.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Damn. "passed", not "past".

[Gandydancer]

No, I'm not. I specifically limited the costs that are actually taxes to "cost[s] imposed by the [government] that because of [their] universal application [are] not subject to competition", not "any business cost". Read what actually wrote before you try to respond to it. If you send your executives on junkets to the Bahamas the cost of doing so isn't going to be paid by the customers because doing so gives you no extra ability to raise prices.

[Nelson]

"not subject to competition"

I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any ban on insurance companies offering deposit insurance. The problem could be that no one else does it for the rate the FDIC charges, or perhaps that the risk is too great for insurance companies. But I don't tbink tbere is any legal barrier to private deposit insurance.

Any lawyers know the law on this? Could private insurance offer deposit insurance?

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Yelp, we finally found something more evil than the Federals. Tranny Terrorists, they stopped killing themselves and are now killing innocent children.

[Gandydancer]

Nothing new about fags punching well above their weight when it comes to being dangerous to children..

[The Margrave of Azilia]

The Right-Wing Crusade Against Shakespeare

https://compactmag.com/article/the-right-wing-crusade-against-shakespeare

[Gandydancer]

“Recently, the Oxfordian theory has experienced an unexpected revival within New York’s hotly debated and much-derided “downtown scene… Thanks to De Vere Society founder Phoebe Nir, who has memed Oxfordianism into cultural consciousness, the writer Curtis Yarvin, and an anonymous essay in the Mars Review of Books, aided by ambient social-media chatter, Oxfordianism has taken on a meaning that transcends its roots in fringe scholarship”

As a right winger of sorts myself (at least I’m unabashedly anti-Lefty) let me say that these are not my people.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

The whole article is an incredibly stupid argument.

[Kazinski]

Inflation doesn’t seem to be going away and the Fed is between a rock and a hard place with monetary policy.

On one hand they need to keep raising interest rates until inflation starts to respond.

On the other hand the banks were caught flat footed when inflation turned out to not be transitory, and their bond portfolios collapsed. Their bonds don’t generate the income they need to keep their heads above water in an inflationary economy, but they can’t afford the loss on their balance sheets if they sell at current prices.

If the fed keeps raising interest rates then bond portfolios will continue to plummet. Keeping interest rates steady will be the worst of both worlds won’t fix inflation, and will keep eroding consumer real incomes. Lowering interest rates will just raise the white flag on inflation and probably goose it up to double digits.

[Randal]

There are other ways to fight inflation. But they require Congress to actually do something so...

Yeah we're fucked.

[Frank Drackman]

do something? like take Cyanide? don't think that's going to happen.

[Randal]

Oh boy, it's the weekly arrival of Man with Unattractive Penis and his light dusting of crass witticisms across the thread.

[Frank Drackman]

Better an unattractive penis than an invisible one

[Randal]

A penis with invisibility? Hmmm... no you're right, that's about as useless as a flying penis.

[Dr. Ed 2]

An invisible penis would be awfully hard to identify in a sexual assault trial, wouldn't it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLP-8f_yT4Q

Even 1981, when the movie was made, was a different time, wasn't it?

[Kazinski]

At this point perhaps what is needed is a fiscal policy fix.

An across the board temporary 3-5% income tax hike, along with a federal spending freeze, and a 5% federal workforce cut, would probably put the breaks on the inflation and take the pressure off the Fed. It needs to be enough of a tax hike to claw back all the stimulus.

The Fed will still need to unwind all of their Quantitative Easing, and permanently retire that from their toolbox.

[Brett Bellmore]

Again, all they have to do is revert spending levels to 2019, adjusted for inflation, and instant balanced budget. It's NOT a shortfall of revenue, so why address it at all on the revenue side?

[Gandydancer]

"On the other hand the banks were caught flat footed when inflation turned out to not be transitory, and their bond portfolios collapsed. Their bonds don’t generate the income they need to keep their heads above water..."

The first sentence is evidence of either gross stupidity or an agency problem. The second merely a sharing of the damage done to the value of savings by zero interest rates, Fuck them.

[Brett Bellmore]

The actual nature of "the hard place" is that raising the interest rates raises debt carrying cost, and the national debt is so large now that at the necessary interest rates, the debt carrying cost would consume 100% of federal revenue.

Which is why it was world shatteringly stupid to let it get this large in the first place; It's not like nobody was warning all along about the threat if interest rates went back to historical norms.

But the Fed isn't causing this problem, they're just charged with fixing it. Which, to be fair, they can't possibly do while Congress is spending like mad.

[Martinned]

The actual nature of “the hard place” is that raising the interest rates raises debt carrying cost, and the national debt is so large now that at the necessary interest rates, the debt carrying cost would consume 100% of federal revenue.

That doesn't make any sense. The government doesn't borrow floating, they borrow fixed.

[Michael P]

Government has to roll over its debt at some point. See https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/datasets/monthly-statement-public-debt/summary-of-treasury-securities-outstanding and https://www.gao.gov/federal-debt -- an awful lot of the US federal debt has to be re-borrowed on time frames less than ten years.

[Martinned]

It does, but that's not what "carrying cost" means.

[Gandydancer]

Wtf are you talking about?

Rolling debt over into higher rate instruments absolutely increases the carrying cost of the debt.

[Armchair Lawyer]

The government regularly rolls over its debt, as well as borrows hundreds of billions more every year.

[Martinned]

Brett was talking about “carrying costs”, not new debt or roll-over.

And if you’re going to look at total interest costs, you can’t look at the nominal picture without also acknowledging that the Federal government’s income grows with inflation. (Taxes fixed as a % of nominal sales value or nominal income, etc.)

[Armchair Lawyer]

So, it's worth looking at the breakdown of US debt. A fairly small percentage (~15%) is actually in US treasury bonds (20-30 year bonds). Roughly the same percentage is in Treasury Bills, which have a maturity of a year or less. All of these have needed to be rolled over since interest rates spiked. And a large chunk (>50%) are in Treasury notes (2-10 year maturities).

So, what it works out to is that the average maturity for federal debt is 5 years. We're going on 2+ years of high interest rates. So, an increasing chunk of federal debt is needing to be re-financed at much higher interest rates. Probably close to 25% at least, especially all the short term bills. A treasury bill rate in 2020 was 0.11% for a 13 week bill. Now it's sitting at closer to 4.5%.

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/56309

That adds up.

[Martinned]

Just to check, do you believe that contradicts anything I wrote?

[Michael P]

Congratulations on being laser-focused on the pedantic meaning of a term that is relatively uncommonly used even when talking about debt, when the intended meaning was plain.

[Martinned]

When talking to lawyers about numbers, being pedantic about definitions is almost never a bad idea. Likewise when talking to people on the internet with a penchant for moving goalposts.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Fix interest rates for short terms is effectively floating.

Numb nuts.

[Sarcastr0]

Where in the world did you get that take, Brett? Because that's utterly incorrect.

[Kazinski]

Anyone who isn't worried about what interest payments on the national debt will be if we don't get inflation under control should be.

[Sarcastr0]

Interest rates going up make debt servicing more expensive? Hard to argue but:
the national debt is so large now that at the necessary interest rates, the debt carrying cost would consume 100% of federal revenue.

That's a spicy hot take.

[Kazinski]

I have to agree that's hyperbole.

[bernard11]

Hyperbole?

No. It's Brett making up "facts" again.

[Brett Bellmore]

Mildly hyperbolic; Consider that federal revenue last year was $4.9T, and the deficit was $1.38T. The national debt was $30.93T. Interest on the debt was about $400B.

Or so you'd think, but the Treasury reports the 'primary' deficit, not the 'fiscal' deficit, which is to say that they don't count carrying costs on the debt. Another way to put it is that they lie about the deficit.

The deficit was ACTUALLY about $1.78T.

So to balance the budget tomorrow, we'd only have to cut spending by about $2.18T, just short of half of revenue. Let's see, when was the last time the federal government "only" spent $4.5T?

2019.

Interesting that it's politically impossible to balance the budget by reverting to 2019 spending levels...

[Martinned]

Again, what do you think happens to tax revenue when inflation is higher?

[Brett Bellmore]

Inflation adjusted revenues stay the same?

The real action isn't on the revenue side, it's that the inflation reduces the value of everybody's savings, and the lost value ends up in the hands of the government when they do the deficit spending.

[Martinned]

Now you're just being crazy inconsistent about which things you discuss in real and nominal terms. But yes, as a general matter *unexpected* inflation benefits debtors and hurts creditors.

[Gandydancer]

SVB of course imagined a world with no inflation forever. So their bond inventory wouldn’t tank.

So when that happened it was "unexpected".

At least for idiots. Or for those pretending to be.

You can’t fix stupid. Or crooked.

[Brett Bellmore]

And inflation whether expected or not benefits the government, because the government spends the new money first.

[Martinned]

@Brett: Huh? That's not even wrong.

[Brett Bellmore]

The government's profit from inflation is essentially a form of seigniorage, also known as an "inflation tax".

The government may not literally be printing or minting currency, but it IS increasing the money supply, and spending the increase itself, while everything denominated in that currency loses value. The lost value being equivalent to the value the government got by being the first spender.

This is not a novel concept. It's actually a standard understanding of how inflation benefits the government.

[Randal]

Mildly hyperbolic

My new favorite backtracking weaselly oxymoron!

[Absaroka]

Right. The debt is $31T or so, and revenue forecast is $4.7T, so interest rates would have to be 15% for servicing the debt to take up 100% of revenue. We haven't seen interest rates that high since 1980.

At current rates (4 to 5%) it only takes a third of the budget to pay the interest.

(n.b. this is a spherical cow analysis, some current bonds are long term, yadda)

[Brett Bellmore]

I was around in 1980, sue me.

[Krayt]

Only a third.

I'm glad we got our money's worth from all that incontinent borrowing the past decades.

Sorry, current gen. Yuppies needed money from you to continue living in the manner to which they had become accustomed, so they borrowed it from you.

[Absaroka]

"Only a third"

Exactly. All we have to do is decide which third of current spending we want to cut. Piece of cake!

If we get in an inflationary spiral like the late 70's, then we can talk about which 100% of the budget to cut.

This shouldn't surprise anyone who doesn't work at SVB - you could see it coming for miles.

[Brett Bellmore]

Simplest way to do it is to just pass a bill returning spending levels to 2019 adjusted for inflation. Instant balanced budget!

There's scarcely been a time in the last half century when you couldn't have balanced the budget by just reverting to the spending levels, (Adjusted for inflation, even!) of just a few years earlier. It's not that revenues aren't going up. It's that they're committed to always spending more than comes in, no matter how high the revenues get.

[Martinned]

Why stop there, why not return it to 1919, or 1819?

[damikesc]

Because he's trying to be realistic?

Trump was overspending wildly in 2019. And that is now fucking austerity.

[Martinned]

Your idea of what is "realistic" is clearly very different from everyone else's. Randomly cutting 10% off the Federal budget is just as bonkers as cutting 50% or 90%.

[Brett Bellmore]

You're so devoted to endlessly increasing government spending, that just returning to spending levels of 4 years ago is "bonkers" in your opinion? And you think I'm the one who's nuts here?

[Michael Ejercito]

It’s not like nobody was warning all along about the threat if interest rates went back to historical norms.

Nobody in the network broadcast and print media was warning about the threat.

[Nelson]

"On the other hand the banks were caught flat footed when inflation turned out to not be transitory, and their bond portfolios collapsed."

Three banks, if you stretch to include Sovereign and Credit Suisse. That's a far cry from "the banks".

What happened is that companies who mismanaged their portfolios collapsed. In common parlance that's called 'capitalism'.

"Their bonds don’t generate the income they need to keep their heads above water in an inflationary economy"

There are plenty of ways to make money in an inflationary economy. There's not a single thing that can happen in the economy that can't make someone money. Even a stock that crashes will make money for those who shorted it.

Additionally, there isn't any type of risk that can't be managed through diversified investments. The vast majority of banks have had no problem because their management didn't suck. Specifically, they managed their risk, unlike SVB or Sovereign or Credit Suisse.

"If the fed keeps raising interest rates then bond portfolios will continue to plummet."

Yes. And companies will adjust their portfolios in response. It's like you don't understand what risk management is.

"Keeping interest rates steady will be the worst of both worlds won’t fix inflation, and will keep eroding consumer real incomes. Lowering interest rates will just raise the white flag on inflation and probably goose it up to double digits."

This is why no one is ever surprised by what the Fed does. They telegraph their moves well ahead if time to allow companies and investors to adjust their holdings to manage risk. They will continue to slowly raise interest rates to combat inflation and well-run companies will continue to thrive because they listen. As long as the Fed action matches their signals, companies will prosper.

[bernard11]

On the other hand the banks were caught flat footed when inflation turned out to not be transitory, and their bond portfolios collapsed.

Well, a couple of badly run banks were. Anyone with a brain knew the Fed was going to raise rates. And anyone with a brain doesn't ignore the risk, as SVB apparently did.

[AmosArch]

Shooter browses 4chan
Media: Gun control, right wing extremism, gun control, right wing extremism.

Shooter made a few antigovernment posts
Media: Gun control, right wing extremism, gun control, right wing extremism.

Shooter is a white male. with no clear political ideology
Media: Gun control, right wing extremism, gun control, right wing extremism

Shooter is transgender and may have targeted Christians
Media: Gun control, gun control, gun control, gun control

[Gandydancer]

Excellent gun control was apparently demonstrated by the cops who shot the tranny dead.

I gather they didn't wait unconscionably long this time before doing that?

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Seemingly not the cops in TN. The cops in FL and TX, not so much.

Perhaps this will serve as a "woke-up call"? You know, "raising awareness" and all that? That there might just be a problem with transgenderism and violence which now needs to be discussed.

But, I'm not counting on it. Doubling down is the flavor of the day.

[Nige]

I see we're establishing a whole terrifying pattern of transgender violence out of one shooting. So what pattern do the cis white guys involved in hundreds and hundreds of mass shootings establish?

[damikesc]

As Andy Ngo pointed out, a startling large number of antifa arrested for violence are trans. He estimated close to 20%.

[Nige]

Well there's a reliable source.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

She(he) wasn't the first. It may be statistically insignificant now, but the violence coming from that quarter does seem to be intensifying.

Citing statistical insignificance in the trans shooter case, but utterly ignoring it in long-gun homicide statistics is not exactly evidence of honesty or, perhaps, awareness.

[Nige]

There haven't been enough mass shootings by transgender people to even start making a pattern. Every school shooting has involved guns.

[Brett Bellmore]

Until the last couple of years, there haven't been enough transgender people for them to contribute appreciably to the murder rate even if they were the most murderous segment of society by a large margin.

[Brett Bellmore]

How Many Mass Shootings Have Been Carried Out by Transgender People?

1.3% of mass killers have been 'trans'. Vs 0.6% of the population being 'trans'. Well, one case was dubious, so let's say 1%.

Unlike you, I don't become innumerate the moment my emotions engage, so I wouldn't claim the numbers here have any statistical significance to speak of. But, yeah, turns out they ARE over-represented.

[Nige]

You agree with me that there haven't been enough incidents to draw a patrern, then you insist on drawing a pattern from it, way to go.

Thats three out of 300. (Non-binary isn't trans, and the guy did it as a legal dodge.) You could break it down further by dominant hand, colour of hair, eyes, height, weight etc and find out which other biological characteristics are represented, draw meaning from those. Of course the real problem is 304 people were able to get hold of guns and commit mass shootings, but ok. Some people want to get mad because 304 people murdered multiple people. You, or certainly many commenters here and a whole load of dangerous right-wing transphobes, want to get mad because three of them were trans. Now who’s being emotionally innumerate?

[Brett Bellmore]

To the extent there IS a pattern, the pattern is that "trans" people are at least as likely to be mass murderers as anybody else. That's all I'm saying.

I'm actually pretty chill about this, because I'm NOT innumerate, and realize that we're talking about a rare category of crime.

Now, you want to respond to this rare category of crime by depriving millions of people of an explicit civil liberty, but that's not a rational response, it's just because you hate that civil liberty, and want it violated.

[Nige]

Or as unlikely.

You're pretty chill about this because you think your hobby is worth a bunch of dead kids.

[Gandydancer]

Do you have a similar article for homos? A lot of trannys seem to be just varieties of homo, so I wonder of trannys and fags match up. It is my definite impression that homos are overrepresented in serial killers (Dahmer, Gacy, Patrick Kearney, Randy Kraft - , many many more), but spree killers are a different category.

[Gandydancer]

Who is this “we” and where’s the evidence that “we” are “establishing” anything? The voices in your head are saying things to you that Amos Arch did not say. And I didn't say that either.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Every single LEO with any responsibility at all for the Uvalde clusterfuck should be strapped to chairs, have their eyes taped open and be forced to watch the Nashville PD bodycam footage on endless loop for the rest of their miserable lives.

[Nige]

Well the shooter had some really dangerous guns, and the person going up against them was a frail human being who presumably didn't want to die or be maimed - so yay guns.

[Martinned]

You would prefer it if people had the same policy recommendation regardless of what happened?

[Brett Bellmore]

What the media certainly aren’t doing, outside right-wing circles, is talking about this “Trans day of vengence”, and that the shooter apparently just decided to get started a few days early.

In fact, Twitter is deleting and locking out anybody who talks about it; Apparently Elon didn’t quite do a thorough job of purging the left wing censors.

It's actually kind of hilarious, the organizers claim that there's nothing violent about holding a "day of vengeance". And the media are actually pretending to believe that!

[Armchair Lawyer]

They do appear to be doing their best to censor it. The images of guns in relation to the day of vengeance.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/03/thoughts-on-the-nashville-murders.php

[Brett Bellmore]

Also note, "wear a mask".

They're not worried about people coughing on each other. They're worried about people being able to be identified in a police lineup. Wearing masks at violent protests to prevent criminal acts from being pinned on specific people has been a thing at left-wing events for some years now, predates Covid, which just provided a temporary excuse for the practice. I think everybody understands that it demonstrates premeditation. They absolutely intend that things get violent at that event.

[Dr. Ed 2]

A second "insurrection" in DC would create some very interesting due process issues if it wasn't prosecuted with the same rigor, wouldn't it?

But why *this* Saturday and why SCOTUS? Is it this: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/supreme-court-asked-to-rule-on-state-law-that-prohibits-therapists-from-counseling-against-gender-transition/ar-AA198I6l

If so, this is the kind of stunt that might backfire...

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Was that a backfire?

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

That Trump supporting white supremacist that orchestrated the false flag that instigated the violence at the BLM rally in Minneapolis looked like he had done it before.

[Dr. Ed 2]

From that Britbert cite: "Ms. Hale was autistic and had various mental health problems."

I think it is about time we ask about drugs -- what psych drugs was she on, and what psych drugs HAD she been on???

I think that's worth asking....

[Frank Drackman]

Oh c'mon (Man!) they're just simple Serotonin and Norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors, you know, Neurotransmitters involved in almost everything nervous system related, oh yeah, and they have a "Black Box" Warning (Thats what we in the medical profession call "Bad")
"People with MDD may experience worsening of their depression or suicidal thoughts or behavior. The risk is higher for children and adolescents under 25 years of age."

Frank "I think this way without any drugs whatsoever, ok, maybe some THC (for the Glaucoma)"

[Brett Bellmore]

The dirty little secret about anti-depressants is that they rapidly remove your apathy, and then gradually get rid of the violent/suicidal thoughts. So suddenly the still violent/suicidal patient is filled to the brim with initiative and energy.

[Sarcastr0]

This is true of SSRIs, but I'm not sure it is broadly true about antidepressents as a broad class.

My psychiatrist father, 25 years ago now, talked about this being a unique issue with SSRIs.

[Brett Bellmore]

The thoughts become a habit, after a while, and it takes some time for the habit to be broken even after the chemistry is fixed. At least, that was my experience.

[Frank Drackman]

25 years ago? I remember Serious Shrinks (I know, Oxymoron) suggesting Zoloft (Sertraline) was so safe it should be "Be put in the water"
then Mike Tyson bit Holyfield's ear off
To be fair, I think Mike Tyson was biting ears off way before SSRI's

Frank

[Sarcastr0]

Brett, do you believe the media should report that this shooter was doing some trans vengeance, based on the...semantic evidence you have?

In fact, Twitter is deleting and locking out anybody who talks about it
I see plenty of these dumbass hotakes myself, so I don't know where you're getting this. Don't you not even do twitter yourself?

[Brett Bellmore]

I think they should probably stop pretending that the shooter was a guy, for one thing. That was pretty embarrassing, feeling guilty about 'misgendering' a mass murderer.

I believe we'll understand more after the manifesto leaks. But that it happened just a few days before this "Trans day of Vengeance"? You really think that's pure coincidence?

[Nige]

I'm glad you've reached your conclusion without establishing any connection between the group organising this and the shooter, or any real idea of what this Day involved or was supposed to acheive. Lot of trans people get violently attacked and murdered. God forbid they employ extreme rhetoric in response, not like 'bloodshed and destruction,' eh?. Doesn't matter. The right has their narrative now, more fuel for trans hate and almost certainly anti-trans violence.

[Sarcastr0]

Your entire evidence of motive is that there is a day called 'trans day of vengeance' in the trans community.

Hard not to see this as some pretty ugly priors cropping up.

[Brett Bellmore]

And that it's in just a few days?

[Sarcastr0]

Jest a few days?

Listen to yourself. It's not bang-on so you've moved the goalposts.

Lots of things are in just a few things of lots of other things. This is weak as heck.

[Nige]

'What the media certainly aren’t doing, outside right-wing circles, is talking about this “Trans day of vengence”,'

There's red flags and alarm bells all over that sentence.

[Sarcastr0]

THE MEDIA.

Dude, your persecution complex would take a blog post on motherjones and turn it into the worldwide consensus.

The main thing I've seen is if there is a manifesto that mentions someone or a place on the Internet, that gets played up.

The right is working hard to turn this into something, but so far they haven't found purchase beyond those already pegged on the 'I'm being persecuted' meter.

[Michael P]

By "those already pegged on the ‘I’m being persecuted’ meter", do you mean the people threatening to shoot transphobes because they feel persecuted by transphobia?

[Sarcastr0]

Maybe? If that's established as the motive?

But also all the posters here, such as yourself, eagerly pushing a narrative even as they lament how in the past there were all these unfair narratives pushed they didn't like (based on, as I said, mostly handwaiving at THE MEDIA)

[OtisAH]

Weird that a matter that does not appear to involve rightwing extremism/extremists (except wrt their extremist positions against gun control) does not elicit as much discussion of rightwing extremism/extremists (except wrt their extremist positions on gun control) as other matters that do involve rightwing extremism/extremists will. You’ve really stumbled onto something here. It’s probably your dick, but it could be something important.

[Nige]

Well it is mostly straight white males who do these shootings, and they're all tediously mediocre in their evil, it makes sense that the motives of someone like this might take longer to parse. I expect they'll be just as mediocre in their evil as the cis guys.

[Gandydancer]

"it is mostly straight white males who do these shootings"?

Actually blacks punch above their weight in mass shootings too.

But if you mean "mass shootings getting extra attention from the Left media" it's a circular argument.

[Nige]

Still mostly straight white males, though. 'There are so many mass shootings only ones involving schools regularly get major coverage' is not really that much of a slam dunk, in terms of how horrfic gun violence has been normalised.

[Gandydancer]

That a female did this is unusual and that most males are still heterosexual and white is just a demographic fact, so "Still mostly straight white males" isn't as significant as "blacks punch above their weight in mass shootings, too". Naturally you try to obfuscate this, but that's a fail.

[Nige]

I think you like to use 'punch above their weight' to mean, 'not as many, but I'm going to exaggerate because I'm racist and homophobic.'

[Gandydancer]

You think all sorts of stupid shit, almost all of it egregiously wrong.

By “blacks punch above their weight in mass shootings, too” I mean they have a disparate impact on everyone else by shooting others in bulk as well as singly at a rate much higher than non-blacks.

“Racist” facts are facts all the same. There's no virtue in denying them.

[not guilty]

Glenn Kirschner is advocating that Donald Trump be prosecuted in both state and federal courts for making threats against Alvin Bragg, specifically including a post on Truth Social that juxtaposed a photo of Trump wielding a baseball bat and a photo of Bragg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ssum8WPH_OQ While I usually agree with Kischner's analysis, I differ here. Prosecution of Trump under these circumstances would offend First and Fourteenth Amendment guaranties.

A statute which makes criminal a form of pure speech, must be interpreted with the commands of the First Amendment clearly in mind. What is a threat must be distinguished from what is constitutionally protected speech. Watts v. United States, 394 U.S. 705, 707 (1969). A criminal Defendant has a First Amendment right to make out of court comments critical of the prosecutor. See, e.g., United States v. Ford, 830 F.2d 596 (6th Cir. 1987) (vacating District Court's sua sponte gag order prohibiting defendant Congressman from making any statement about a prosecuting attorney and any statement about "any alleged motive the government may have had in filing the indictment" absent a clear and present danger of prejudicing fairness of the trial).

Even if Trump's hyperbole is seen as threatening violence against Bragg, it is not punishable criminally unless it is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action. Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444, 447 (1969). I doubt that that stringent test is met here.

Trump's actions are no doubt deplorable, but as Justice Frankfurter opined in dissent in United States v. Rabinowitz, 339 U.S. 56, 66 (1950), "It is a fair summary of history to say that the safeguards of liberty have frequently been forged in controversies involving not very nice people."

[John F. Carr]

There are two roads to liability. You mention the imminent lawless action standard. Trump would also be liable if the post were a credible threat that Trump himself will attack Bragg. The post is not a credible threat when made in that form by Trump.

In 1995 a prosecutor was murdered in Boston by a gang member. According to the Boston Globe that was the only such killing in state history.

[not guilty]

I suspect we are saying essentially the same thing. I don't think Trump's social media rant was a true threat to harm Bragg himself, and thus was expression protected by Watts.

If and to the extent that Trump was encouraging others to engage in violence, analysis under Brandenburg would apply. I doubt that a prosecutor could show that violence was imminent.

[Dr. Ed 2]

"In 1995 a prosecutor was murdered in Boston by a gang member. According to the Boston Globe that was the only such killing in state history."

Notice how quickly they found the two teenagers who had stolen the trooper's gun out of the cruiser in his garage? I suspect the murder of the prosecutor was quickly closed as well.

[John F. Carr]

The killer, Jeffrey Bly, was questioned the day after the murder of Paul McLaughlin but released. He was an obvious suspect because the prosecutor was about to put him on trial. I do not know when he was arrested. He was convicted of murder four years later. One of the arguments on appeal was over the circumstances of his first interview. The courts ruled it was a non-custodial interrogation and Miranda did not apply.

[John F. Carr]

This spring Bragg is playing "how do you keep a liberal in suspense." The grand jury is taking some time off, and taking some time not indicting Trump.

[not guilty]

Allen Weisselberg's lawyers, who were paid by the Trump organization, have bailed or been fired. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/allen-weisselberg-just-fired-his-trump-funded-lawyers-%e2%80%94-is-he-about-to-flip/ar-AA19eYfv I wonder if Weisselberg is cooperating with state prosecutors.

[John F. Carr]

Fooled me!

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Any day now!

[Jason Cavanaugh]

Do you enjoy eating crow, or are you just here to demonstrate your impressive ability to be wrong?

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Do you enjoy eating crow, or are you just here to demonstrate your impressive ability to be wrong?

Are you just here to demonstrate that you’re just as stupid as Nancy Pelosi regarding your inability to understand where the burden of proof is in a criminal trial, or the difference between “indicted” and “convicted”?

[David Nieporent]

Even if Trump’s hyperbole is seen as threatening violence against Bragg, it is not punishable criminally unless it is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action. Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444, 447 (1969). I doubt that that stringent test is met here.

Not saying that your overall conclusions are wrong, but your analysis is. Brandenburg prescribes the test for unprotected incitement, not the test for whether something is a true threat.

[not guilty]

I did not claim that Brandenburg prescribes the test for whether something is a true threat, although I probably should have said regarding Brandenburg, if Trump’s hyperbole is seen as expressly or implicitly advocating violence by others against Bragg.

I acknowledged upthread in reply to John F. Carr that Watts and Brandenburg call for distinct strains of analysis.

[apedad]

Importance of traditional American values has plummeted across US, poll shows

The importance of traditional American values has plummeted in the U.S. in recent decades, according to a new poll from The Wall Street Journal.

The Monday poll questioned U.S. respondents about the importance of patriotism, religious faith, having children and other traditional U.S. metrics. The poll found that just 39% of Americans say their religious faith is very important to them, and just 38% say patriotism is very important.

The WSJ compared those numbers to the first time it ran the poll in 1998 when 62% of Americans said religion was very important to them, and 70% said patriotism was very important.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/importance-traditional-american-values-plummeted-us-poll-shows

No surprise on the religion metric but I’d like to see what the definition of patriotism is.

For example, was taking COVID measures (masks, distancing, etc), patriotic, i.e., sacrifice some freedom to help save our citizens?

Or was protesting against govt mandates that people thought went too far patriotic?

Or can it be both?

[Brett Bellmore]

Interesting that they asked about party affiliation, but did NOT publish the subgroups. Is it possible there's a bit of a partisan skew on who isn't patriotic?

[BravoCharlieDelta]

We all know the answer to that question.

Whose been bashing America and Americans for the past umpteen years? Besides the CCP that is.

[Nige]

Trump? He ran his whole campaign on America being crap.

[Gandydancer]

It is.

[Nige]

Hey, BCD, someone here bashing America!

[Gandydancer]

Your presence contributes to the crapulousness.

[Nige]

Oh no.

Anyway...

[OtisAH]

Ooo, was it the guy who introduced himself as president with the phrase “American Carnage”? I got it. It’s the dude who loudly muses over how much better Russia and China are than the US. No, wait, it was the guy who claims “I am your retribution” right? And his millions of cultists?

[David Nieporent]

Whose been bashing America and Americans for the past umpteen years? Besides the CCP that is.

MAGA people.

[Gandydancer]

Yeah, MAGA people are uniquely behind, e.g., the "1619 Project".

[Nige]

Geuss that's the difference between documenting slavery and its effects and going wild about the Great Replacement.

[Gandydancer]

Lying isn't "documenting".

[Nige]

That IS where the Great Replacement bollocks falls apart, yes.

[Gandydancer]

The nice thing about "The 1619 Project" as an example of "bashing America" is that you can quote it, whereas "the Great Replacement" bogeyman doesn't have any definite boundaries. When (D)'s celebrate demographic replacement somehow that's to be ignored. But if you notice that they're saying it you're a "conspiracy theorist".

[Sarcastr0]

Yes, it is very Meaningful who calls themselves patriotic as they defend insurgent assholes.

So important it will have to be covered up!

Don't speculate yourself into narratives, it's dumb as hell.

[Brett Bellmore]

It's always interesting when a polling organization collects subgroup information, and then doesn't publish it. You always have to wonder at the omission, it's not going to be an accident.

Incidentally, what the heck is with that "the Monday poll" link at Fox? My browser blocked it until I stripped off that garbage chrome extension they'd tacked on the front end.

[Sarcastr0]

I don't find it too interesting myself, because I don't roll it over into yet another story of a liberal coverup.

[Life of Brian]

Looks like the ID for the Acrobat extension. But I've never seen it force-fed in a link like that either. Odd.

[David Nieporent]

It’s always interesting when a polling organization collects subgroup information, and then doesn’t publish it. You always have to wonder at the omission, it’s not going to be an accident.

It's never interesting, Conspiracy Theory Brett. Newspapers virtually never publish poll crosstabs, and pollsters rarely do.

[OtisAH]

Oh Brett, you’d find a way to make it so even if there was literally and provably a 0% chance of that. So why play games?

[Michael P]

Counterpoint: https://patrickruffini.substack.com/p/why-this-extremely-viral-poll-result

In summary, this year's data switched from telephone polling to an online poll, and that may reduce "respectability bias" in how people answer the questions.

[John F. Carr]

Through the Bush 43 presidency we kept hearing that patriots are fascists.

[Nige]

And anyone anti-war was anti-American. How'd that work out? Include references to rendition flights, incarceration without trial and torture in your answer.

[Bob from Ohio]

"new poll from The Wall Street Journal"

Issue polls are garbage, no exceptions.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Issue polls and movement conservatives.

[Gandydancer]

You smell like garbage but are neither of those.

[David Nieporent]

Importance of traditional American values has plummeted across US, poll shows

Nah. It's mostly clickbait. If you look at the actual poll, they name a bunch of values and then say "How important is this to you?"

There were 4 choices: very important, important, not very important, not at all important. (Well, there was also "don't know/refused to answer," but that's irrelevant.) The graph purportedly showing that these values aren't important to people only looked at the respondents who said "very important."

But if you look at the people who said very important or important, then each of those values got good marks. It was 70% for marriage, 80% for community involvement, 73% for religion, 73% for patriotism, and 90% for money.

[apedad]

‘Welcome to Florida’: Sheriff meets extradited man who allegedly posted 4chan threat against him

Richard Golden, 38, stands accused of one count of making a written threat to kill or do bodily injury, according to Volusia County Jail records. He was charged earlier this month for allegedly threatening Volusia County Sheriff Mike Chitwood in a 4chan bulletin board “due to the sheriff’s recent stand against a neo-Nazi hate group.”

Golden was extradited to the Sunshine State on Monday.

“In the chat, various users were discussing Sheriff Chitwood’s response to recent hate activity in Volusia County,” a VCSO press release says. “One anonymous user (later identified as Golden) stated: ‘Just shoot Chitwood in the head and he stops being a problem. They have to find a new guy to be the problem.’ He added: ‘But shooting Chitwood in the head solves an immediate problem permanently. Just shoot Chitwood in the head and murder him.’

Chitwood made good on that earlier statement (about greeting Golden at the airport after he was extradited from New Jersey), during a brief interaction at Orlando-Sanford International Airport.

“I’m Volusia County Sheriff Mike Chitwood…” Chitwood said to Golden as the man acknowledged him before walking on. “Hope you enjoy your stay. Welcome to Florida.”

In a follow-up interview, the sheriff criticized the defendant for refusing to speak up for himself as he stepped off the escalator.

“I wanted him to look in my eye and say, ‘You’re the guy I wanna put a bullet in your head,’” Chitwood said. “He walked right by me. I mean, how gutless can you be?”

https://lawandcrime.com/crime/welcome-to-florida-sheriff-meets-extradited-man-who-allegedly-posted-4chan-threat-against-him/

1. Total unprofessional move by the sheriff and hopefully his boss counsels him.
2. Does the ‘shoot him in the head’ comment meet the imminent threat threshold?

[Michael P]

1. "His boss"? Sheriffs are elected officials in Florida.

2. Imminent threat is a standard from self-defense law, not speech. True threats are not protected speech. Neither is incident to imminent lawless action, but the Florida law charged in this case is premised on punishing true threats.

[Gandydancer]

With Golden not even in Florida and no proof that he ever intended to go there (I bet) proving it was a "true threat" ought to be difficult.

But our courts are trash, so that's no bar to anything.

[John F. Carr]

“I wanted him to look in my eye and say, ‘You’re the guy I wanna put a bullet in your head’”

The sheriff has consented to being threatened. Put the guy on a plane back home.

[Dr. Ed 2]

At the very least, I think the sheriff (a) blew the conviction and (B) is going to be in a difficult situation if anything happens to him in jail.

Put your penis back in your pants and do your job.

[David Nieporent]

At the very least, I think the sheriff (a) blew the conviction and (B) is going to be in a difficult situation if anything happens to him in jail.

Why do you think your uninformed opinions are worth anything?

[Dr. Ed 2]

Informed experience.

[apedad]

Assistant U.S. Attorney Pleads Guilty to Conflict of Interest Violation

An Assistant U.S. Attorney pleaded guilty yesterday to illegally steering contracts to her spouse, in violation of the federal criminal conflict of interest statute.

According to court documents, Kathryn Drey, 55, of Pensacola, Florida, directed contracts from the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Florida to companies in which her spouse had a financial interest, including while she served as chief of the office’s Civil Division. Drey concealed her spouse’s financial interest in contracts to conduct title searches in litigation defended by the U.S. Attorney’s Office.

“Kathryn Drey committed a federal crime by enriching her family at the expense of her duty to the American people,” said Assistant Attorney General Kenneth A. Polite, Jr. of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division. “The Department of Justice is committed to holding accountable public servants who act with unlawful conflicts of interest, prioritizing financial gain over their ethical duties.”

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/assistant-us-attorney-pleads-guilty-conflict-interest-violation

Feds went after one of their own.

Good to see.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Bureaucrats are scum.

[Martinned]

It seems like only yesterday that Brett Bellmore was telling me that conflicts of interest were fine...

[Brett Bellmore]

Cite?

[Martinned]

Apologies, it was Bored Lawyer (and Monday).

https://reason.com/volokh/2023/03/27/disqualifying-apex-officials-due-to-perceived-conflicts-of-interest/?comments=true#comment-9987666

[OtisAH]

Meh, Brett will get there eventually. You just have to find the right incident.

[Bored Lawyer]

Of course, I said no such thing. But hey, why let facts confuse you.

[Sarcastr0]

People often embrace positions that benefit them personally. So what? Netanyahu does not have the power to enact the reforms himself. All he can do is participate in a very public debate among the Israeli Knesset and the Israeli public.

[OtisAH]

“Wait, *that’s* what that thing I wrote means?!”
-Bored Lawyer

[Bored Lawyer]

Ditto. Thanks for exposing yourself as a disingenuous lout.

When the Supreme Court enjoins Joe Biden from advocating a position that helps him and his party win elections, then come back and talk to me.

[OtisAH]

Wow, that is so exactly the exact same thing! You smurt.

[Gandydancer]

You're not.

Martinned is gaslighting us again. Netanyahu getting freedom to speak to the subject of judicial reform instead of letting himself continue to be gagged is not a conflict of interest, even if de-fanging the politicized Israeli judiciary would remove an improper barrier to his fixing the problem.

[Bored Lawyer]

Right. You do understand the difference between exercising power when it benefits you, and advocating that another body enact a policy that would benefit you.

You do understand the difference, but want to pretend that you don't to score points.

[Martinned]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_system

[Brett Bellmore]

There are two times when people embrace positions that personally benefit them: Conflicts of interest, and confluences of interest. The difference lies in whether the positions hurt other people, or help them, too.

[OtisAH]

See, when I pushed through extremely favorable legislation that benefits both Big Oil Co. and my family, but not necessarily the people I serve, that’s a *confluence* of interest not a “conflict” of interest. Because Big Oil Co. and I have shared interests in improving the lives of our families. And lemme tell you, that money helped *a lot*!

[Bored Lawyer]

No, the difference is where a person exercises governmental (or corporate) power in a way that benefits him, and where a person advocates that others exercise power in a way that benefits him. The former is a conflict of interest. The latter is democracy.

[Martinned]

Please, do yourself a favour and study up on how a parliamentary system of government works. You're embarrassing yourself.

[Bored Lawyer]

I understand that very well.
You seem to be forgetting what the original issue was -- whether Netanyahu was properly enjoined by the Supreme Court of Israel from participating in the advocacy of legislation that would reform the Israeli court system.
Can the PM enact legislation? No. He can only advocate for it. He is certainly more influential than the average citizen, or even the average MP (or in Israel MK). But he does not hold the power to enact what his party wanted enacted.

[Bob from Ohio]

"Netanyahu was properly enjoined by the Supreme Court of Israel "

It was just an AG opinion.

[Martinned]

Telling his party and his coalition what to do is not "advocacy" in any normal meaning of the word.

[Bored Lawyer]

Yes it is. He has no power over them, other than as a very influential person. He cannot "instruct" them to do anything. They can and have in the past balked at numerous things the PM wants.
That's even in a parliamentary democracy like the UK. In Israel, where you have a fractious coalition of numerous small parties, it's even more absurd.
Your attempt at using the distinction between parliamentary and US style democracy to explain away what happened here is specious. Netanyahu has no power to enact the reforms by a stroke of his pen. He can push forward legislation in the Knesset, and try to get together a coalition of small parties, with varying interests, to pass it. He can also advocate the merits of the proposal to the general public. None of that involves using government power directly to achieve something for his benefit.

[Martinned]

He has no power over them

I'm going to stop you right there. You clearly understand nothing about how political parties or democracy work outside the US.

[Noscitur a sociis]

and where a person advocates that others exercise power in a way that benefits him

You mean like the AUSA in the story that started this conversation?

[Bored Lawyer]

What AUSA? THis is about Israel. Do you mean the AG?

[Noscitur a sociis]

No, I mean (presumably former) AUSA Kathryn Drey, 55, of Pensacola, Florida, whose convicton for violating the federal conflict of interest statute was the subject the comment that you're replying to.

[Gandydancer]

“According to court documents, Kathryn Drey, 55, of Pensacola, Florida, directed contracts from the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Northern District of Florida to companies in which her spouse had a financial interest, including while she served as chief of the office’s Civil Division.”

Explain how this is “where a person advocates that others exercise power in a way that benefits [her]”.

nb: “Directed” and “advocated” are not the same verb.

And then there’s the “Drey concealed her spouse’s financial interest in contracts to conduct title searches in litigation defended by the U.S. Attorney’s Office” bit, where I’m seeing no equivalent deception in Israel.

Netanyahu’s opponents are free to aver that he is doing this for personal benefit, but that they should be able to gag him is non-obvious.

[Michael P]

Black white supremacists have even infiltrated DIE offices now: https://nypost.com/2023/03/18/dei-director-harassed-by-school-for-questioning-policies/

(Or maybe the puritanical left has gotten even more ridiculously lost.)

[Krayt]

“To me that signals, it doesn’t really matter,” Lee said. “We’re doing [land acknowledgements] to signal our alignment with critical social justice ideology and not to really make any real changes. It’s a performative, almost pseudo-religious exercise.”

The land acknowledgement is every student being forced to recite how the university’s land was taken from the local tribe. Yes, just like requirements to recite the Pledge of Allegiance -- every morning.

I had no idea.

The names and sentences have changed. The self-righteous demand, by those in power, for loyalty oaths as a control mechanism has not.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The difference is that it once was a loyalty to the country as a whole and not to a political subdivision thereof.

Even at the height of the Protestant/Catholic dispute over which Bible would be used in the classroom, there was no demand for loyalty oaths to anti-Papacy or to the Catholic faith.

And legally, if A steals land from B and then gets quiet title to it, and then C steals the same land from B and again gets quiet title to it, exactly from whom was said land stolen?

A lot of the land stolen from the Indians was then stolen from Loyalists during the Revolution, and unlike the Indians (and notwithstanding promises in the Treaty of Paris) the Loyalists were never compensated.

[Gandydancer]

This is at De Anza College, Cupertino, CA, I think. So I don't think the Loyalists of the era of the Revolution are involved. Maybe the Spanish.

[Michael P]

To those who still claim cancel culture isn't a thing, this PA representative says "cancel the speakers": https://jonathanturley.org/2023/03/25/how-does-this-keep-transgender-students-safeuniversity-of-pittsburgh-under-fire-for-allowing-conservative-speakers-on-campus/

[Michael P]

The US Department of Energy is hamstringing air conditioners and the like, for relative chump change. I still had my "ban gas stoves" decorations up! https://www.energy.gov/articles/doe-finalizes-efficiency-rules-room-air-conditioners-and-portable-air-cleaners

[apedad]

You consider this chump change?

DOE expects these standards to save American families and consumers approximately $1.5 billion per year on their electricity bills and decrease harmful carbon dioxide emissions by 106 million metric tons over 30 years—an amount roughly equivalent to the combined annual emissions of 13.4 million homes.

[Michael P]

Can you do math or pay attention to when they change units?

Yes, saving less than $5 per American per year is chump change.

[Life of Brian]

Later in the press release: "DOE expects the new rules to save consumers more than $25 billion over the ensuing 30 years of shipments."

"Approximately" $1.5 billion per year indeed. Close enough for guv'ment work!

[Brett Bellmore]

We'll save a lot in the early years on account of not being able to buy air conditioners anymore. Sweating is cheap.

Then the savings drop off as the new, more expensive units that barely meet the standards hit the market, and people who can afford them resume being comfortable.

[Nige]

Hey, you go into a climate crisis with the vastly unequal society you have, not the equal society you wish you had, but then again if society was more equal, the crisis could have been headed off a decade ago and you could be whining about all the fuss the way people whine about the hole in the ozone and banning cfcs.

[Bob from Ohio]

"DOE expects"

LOL

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

You consider this chump change?

DOE expects these standards to save American families and consumers approximately $1.5 billion per year on their electricity bills

Wow. That will save every American enough to buy a single 16 oz Pumpkin Spice Latte at Starbucks once per year. Happy days are here again.

[Sarcastr0]

Yeah, one thing the economy doesn't care about is aggregate savings.

[David Nieporent]

Come on, that’s a dumb comment. You can't aggregate only the numerator and not the denominator. “The economy” is like $23 trillion dollars. $1.5 billion is less than rounding error.

[Sarcastr0]

Fair point about denominators.

But I don't believe that the upshot that aggregate consumer savings of $1.5b is not below the interest of policymakers.

[Brett Bellmore]

You're not even talking about the aggregate here, because this is only one side of the balance sheet. OK, so $5 per person per year in electricity. How much more do the new air conditioners cost?

Betcha it's more than $5 per year, amortized over their lives.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Sarcastr0 said something dumb (I've had him muted for quite some time now, so I have no idea what it was...nor do I care)? Color me shocked.

[Sarcastr0]

Brett, read the linked article:

DOE expects the new rules to save consumers more than $25 billion over the ensuing 30 years of shipments. With these standards in place, households using new room air conditioners and portable air cleaners will save an estimated $150 over the average life of the appliances.

Quit this knee-jerk 'all consumer standards are bad' nonsense. Maybe a given change is bad, but show your work or else you just look like a crank.

[Brett Bellmore]

Yeah, so? Are you under the impression that the feds do honest accounting? This is government accounting: They talk about only one side of the balance sheet. This is the same government that doesn't count interest on the debt in figuring out the size of the deficit.

It's benefit/benefit analysis, classic government style. They just ignore the costs they impose, and magically, they save money! Did you not notice that they nowhere mention the cost of the appliance itself, only the energy?

[Absaroka]

I agree that press release doesn't have enough details to know, but I think Sarcastro's point is apt: some rules can make financial sense.

It's been a while, but IIRC the building code change from 2x4 to 2x6 walls had a pretty short payback - something as short as 5 years if dim memory serves.

You have to do the math for each particular case. And that math is hard, because it's hard to get cost info for things that aren't built yet.

There have surely been dumb regulations - gas cans, toilets, .... But you shouldn't just reflexively assume they are all bad.

(Generally speaking, I think they would be better off, for example, adding a per gallon tax on toilets and incrementing it up. Then you could at least pay more for a toilet that worked while the manufacturers worked things out.)

[Brett Bellmore]

The stupidity of the toilet regulation was multidimensional. It wasn't just that they created a temporary shortage of toilets, or that they mandated nation-wide water conservation measures in a country where water is only locally in short supply.

It was also that the plumbing that gets rid of the flush is designed on the assumption of a certain ratio of water to turd, which in turn dictates the slope of the pipe. The pipes didn't magically rearrange themselves when the feds changed that ratio...

[Absaroka]

"The pipes didn’t magically rearrange themselves when the feds changed that ratio…"

Our newest toilet dates from the early 90's, so I only have the anecdotal reports I get from friends, but what I hear is that people are pretty happy with current low flush toilets, even when connected to plumbing old enough to be collecting social security. My sense is that it was the toilet design itself, not the plumbing. YMMV.

[Brett Bellmore]

Well, yeah, the early low flush toilets were crappy, as I can personally testify. (I was building my house at the time they imposed the regulation, and the nice toilet I'd ordered got replaced by a low flush toilet that required several flushes.) The newer ones use a fast flush system using pressurized water that compensates for the reduced quantity of water by delivering it all in a short period.

But things got pretty ugly in terms of stopped up sewers for a while after they imposed the regulation, until they actually had this all worked out. I had relatives in the building trades at the time, and were they griping about it: You had to be a lot more careful about sewer line slopes with the low flush toilets.

[Sarcastr0]

If you assume the government is lying about everything you don’t want to engage with, it sure is easy to believe literally anything you want!

If the accounting is wrong show that. This is just lazy ideologue wankery.

[Brett Bellmore]

Your link, you read it: They nowhere mention the cost of the appliances, just of the electricity. I can't show the accounting they didn't do, it's not there to show.

[Dr. Ed 2]

It's chump change when it doubles the price of the AC unit.

And the problem with modern ACs is their efficiency rapidly declines after the first year, after about 4-5 years, they are nearly useless even though they consume the same amount of electricity.

So what creates greater efficiency -- slightly less efficient ACs that can be replaced every 2 years, or one so expensive that it may be more efficient the first year, and then a true energy hog in years 3, 4, 5, & 6 because it isn't replaced.

What you are NOT seeing in any of this is testing of how efficient the machines are after usage. The same thing is true of both florescent and LED lights -- out of the box, they give the specified amount of light but they immediately start decreasing and after a year or two, it is a significant amount less light.

(THIS is why they recommend you replace headlights in pairs -- the other one is going to be so much dimmer that you won't have a uniform lighting pattern with the brighter new bulb.)

It comes down if you want to save electricity or feel good about yourself...

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

Didn’t US electricity peak in 2007?? While people continued to move to states like Texas and Florida with high central AC rates.

[David Nieporent]

As always, Dr. Ed is simply making shit up. None of this is true.

[Kazinski]

What they ought to do in ban AC in federal office buildings, starting with EPA and Dept of Energy buildings in DC.

[Bored Lawyer]

But their SPECIAL.

[OtisAH]

Their special what?

[Gandydancer]

Their special arrogance and obnoxiousness.

[Krayt]

The purpose would be to save energy as a green effort. Pathetically tying it to saving The People money is rhetoric to cover that, like Hitler touting The People's Wagon as an affordable car so you, too, fellow citizen, can drive on the new, expensive highways he is building...to ship military equipment around quickly without relying on fussy trains.

[Gandydancer]

Here's the best part:

Hitler chose to sponsor an all-new, state-owned factory using Ferdinand Porsche's design... The intention was that German families could buy the car through a savings scheme (..."Five Marks a week you must set aside, if in your own car you wish to ride"),,, However, the project was not commercially viable, and only government support was able to keep it afloat.... ... none of the participants in the savings scheme ever received a car.

[Gandydancer]

"DOE expects these standards to save American families and consumers approximately $1.5 billion per year on their electricity bills and decrease harmful carbon dioxide emissions by 106 million metric tons over 30 years—an amount roughly equivalent to the combined annual emissions of 13.4 million homes."

I like how they switch from claimed 30-year savings to annual emissions. 13.4 million sounds SO much more impressive than 447k.

"The new rules will come into effect in 2024 for air cleaners and 2026 for room air conditioners. DOE expects the new rules to save consumers more than $25 billion over the ensuing 30 years of shipments. With these standards in place, households using new room air conditioners and portable air cleaners will save an estimated $150 over the average life of the appliances."

Does the reduction of "1.5 billion per year on their electricity bills" to "save consumers more than $25 billion over the ensuing 30 years of shipments" ($710M/yr) reflect higher purchase costs up front? And do we believe these numbers? Why?

[Michael P]

California's High Speed Rail continues to accelerate its voyage to nowhere: https://californiaglobe.com/articles/longer-and-harder-high-speed-rails-latest-plan-adds-time-reduces-ridership/

[Armchair Lawyer]

Meanwhile, Brightline expands in Florida.

There's nothing inherently wrong with highspeed rail. But government does seem to be screwing it up in parts of the US.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/transportation/os-ne-brightline-maintenance-ship-unveiled-20230327-x5o4bkuzkrapxnchhrxnu3jooq-story.html

[Michael P]

Is your contention that Florida or one of its localities screwed up Brightline? It seems to be almost on schedule (this year vs expected last year -- not bad considering COVID-19 impacts on all kinds of delivery times): https://www.railway-technology.com/projects/brightline-high-speed-rail-project-florida/

[Armchair Lawyer]

No, my contention is California screwed up.

Florida is doing fine with private investment.

[Sam Bankman-Fried]

The problem is mountains which Florida doesn’t have.

[Gandydancer]

Gee, who knew California had mountains between Sacramento and San Diego when they sold this to the voters?

Though, AFAIK, they’ve only built stubs in the Central Valley, which doesn’t have any mountains (and few people). (“If policy makers choose to deliver high-speed rail beyond the Central Valley, funding commitments for high-speed rail will have to be permanent and substantial at both the federal and state level…”, breaking all the promises made when the boondoggle was floated, as the article notes.)

[Brett Bellmore]

Since the only purpose of the high speed rail program in California was graft, actually building one would have been inefficient.

[Brett Bellmore]

I suppose there's nothing inherently wrong with the idea, if you only do it where it makes sense. Which is hardly anywhere in the US. High speed rail needs dedicated tracks laid out specifically for that purpose, and long enough stretches without stops to actually get up to speed long enough to matter. Then you need enough traffic between those distant points to make it pay.

World-wide, high speed rail us virtually always a money loser which is done for governmental prestige purposes. For instance, Japan's high speed rail system is often pointed to as an example of how to do it right. It loses $2B a year.

Here in the US, it's generally done less for prestige than graft. Which doesn't require the system to actually be built and run, I suppose, probably explaining California's system.

[Martinned]

Rail only loses money because it is asked to pay for its own infrastructure, while road transport is not. Doing the maths in a way that reflects the externalities of getting people off the road makes the cost/benefit look much better. (Though, I suspect, not in the US, which seems to be uniquely bad at public infrastructure projects.)

[ThePublius]

That's not so. First, passenger rail in the shares infrastructure with freight. Freight makes money. Passenger rail has almost always lost money. Second, truckers pay taxes for road use in the US, both fuel levies, excise taxes, and the HVUT - heavy vehicle use tax. Have you ever seen a weigh station???

[Dr. Ed 2]

I have yet to see a justified cost of either construction or rebuilding of a lane mile of highway versus a mile of track.

In the era of concrete and granite cobblestones, along with cheap old growth timber (for ties), and cheap labor swinging sledgehammers, rail WAS cheaper -- it was the only feasible means of transportation in areas with mud seasons. And crushed stone could be dropped off hopper cars onto the track in a way it couldn't be on a highway.

Now, with modern equipment, I have to wonder which is cheaper per mile, both to build and to maintain. And you don't have to plow or salt rail in the winter...

[Gandydancer]

"...you don’t have to plow... rail in the winter…"

Where on earth did you get THAT idea? Florida?

[OtisAH]

Everybody who uses the roads contributes to their maintenance through tolls and taxes.

[Martinned]

Not at the full (incremental) cost they don't.

[Nige]

And as for the externalities...

[Ben_]

There’s always a fantasy “cost” number that can be as large as you want to make such a point.

You think roads only help drivers? How do groceries get to the supermarket?

You don’t need to make up BS about roads to make trains look better. It’s not one versus the other. We can’t go back in time to 1955 and build a rail system, regardless of BS (or even completely not BS) rhetorical points supporting that action.

[Martinned]

You think roads only help drivers? How do groceries get to the supermarket?

That's the "benefits" side of the costs/benefits analysis.

We can’t go back in time to 1955 and build a rail system, regardless of BS (or even completely not BS) rhetorical points supporting that action.

First of all, nothing in this thread explains why the US can't build more rail.

Second of all, it doesn't really need to. Unlike in the UK, a lot of US rail is still around, it just isn't used for passenger transport anymore, only freight. High speed rail requires its own infrastructure, normal speed trains don't.

[Ben_]

Rail is insanely expensive to build. And almost any trip long enough so you need high speed rail is a good candidate for air travel. We have airplanes, we don't need to waste $100 Billion building tracks when we could build and operate air transport for a lot less than half as much.

Airplanes and airports can actually be operating in a reasonable timeframe. The California high speed rail initiative was passed 15 years ago and the optimistic estimate for the first passenger trip (from a place few people live, to a place almost no one wants to go) is another 7 years from now. There’s nothing convenient about a trip you have to wait 25 years for.

[Martinned]

Rail is insanely expensive to build.

Yes, but why? And why do you need to build so much rail if there is already so much infrastructure sitting right their, being used for freight?

And almost any trip long enough so you need high speed rail is a good candidate for air travel. We have airplanes, we don’t need to waste $100 Billion building tracks when we could build and operate air transport for a lot less than half as much.

Well yes, but hypothetically the government might develop a policy to combat climate change. (That's those "externalities" I mentioned above.)

Airplanes and airports can actually be operating in a reasonable timeframe.

Again, it's important to understand the difference. It's perfectly feasible to screw up an airport just as much: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Brandenburg_Airport

[David Nieporent]

Yes, but why?

Let me introduce you to America's environmental laws.

And why do you need to build so much rail if there is already so much infrastructure sitting right their, being used for freight?

Because it's not suitable for high speed rail.

[Ben_]

"But why?"

Read the post I linked below, in the (as of now) last message in this thread. It’s from a knowledgeable insider. It has a big part of the answer.

"… the government might develop a policy to combat climate change…"

Especially if their goal is to make our lives worse for the theoretical benefit of distant future people in other countries.

[Ben_]

And even if you’re a climate religion zealot, spending 25 years and $60 Billion to build a train from Bakersfield to Merced California doesn’t mitigate climate change.

Even presuming they finish the train line in 2040 or 2050 or whenever, spend the rest of the $130 B, and it finally serves Los Angeles and the Bay Area, when does it meet climate goals — mitigating enough carbon to make up for its construction? The year 2200?

Seems like it fails even on whatever climate calculation.

Plus it’s a three hour train ride to avoid a one hour flight. Estimated to cost passengers 2-4x what the plane ticket costs.

[Longtobefree]

Except electric car users (rich elites who can afford two cars)

[Martinned]

They create plenty of externalities too, for example by adding to congestion.

[Bob from Ohio]

Very few places in the US have any real congestion. LA, Boston, NYC, Chicago, DC, Atlanta, a few others.

Even at rush hour, you can go anywhere in Cleveland in 30-40 minutes or less.

[Martinned]

Where do you think Longtobefree's "rich elites" live?

[Ben_]

California

[Frank Drackman]

Yeah? try I-95 from Miami to Boston, friggin parking lot

[Bob from Ohio]

"uniquely bad at public infrastructure "

We aren't a tiny place like Europe, it takes a lot to build stuff. France is smaller than Colorado, Holland smaller than West Virginia. NYC to San Francisco is 2,901.74 miles, twice that of Amsterdam to Moscow [1,520.9 miles]

Rail is super dumb in the US for passengers.

[Martinned]

That should just make infrastructure cheaper on a per-km basis. But it isn't.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Rail only loses money because it is asked to pay for its own infrastructure, while road transport is not.

As always, you're quick to flap your virtual gums without having any idea what you're blathering on about. As already pointed out, road transport absolutely does pay for infrastructure, and rail transport shares costs with rail freight.

[Martinned]

If only I had spent the better part of a decade as an academic studying railway financing and regulation. O, wait...

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

So then you have absolutely no excuse for your stupid comments.

[apedad]

"It loses $2B a year."

No, it lost $2B LAST year - due to COVID.

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/CJPRY/central-japan-railway/gross-profit

Otherwise it seems to be doing OK.

[Gandydancer]

That's not what it looks like to me. 2018-2019 weren't terrible (dunno about ROI), otherwise the numbers look pretty awful going back to 2014.

[apedad]

While I'm lefty on social issues, I somewhat hawkish on fiscal matters.

(New) high speed rail does seem to be an issue in our country.

After a decade of hype, Dallas-Houston bullet train developer faces a leadership exodus as land acquisition slows

https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/30/texas-high-speed-rail-dallas-houston/

I'm guessing the delay-issues are the same whether it's a govt agency or private business building the system (and the issues cut across political lines), e.g., eminent domain, environmental concerns, funding, etc.

Side note: In June (2022), the Texas Supreme Court ruled that Texas Central Railroad & Infrastructure and Integrated Texas Logistics, a partner in the rail project, have eminent domain power because they are “interurban electric railway companies.” The decision, based on the Texas Transportation Code, enables the high-speed railway project to move forward with surveying and forcibly buying private property.

[Ben_]

Here’s a good article on Why America Can’t Build anything anymore.

https://www.palladiummag.com/2022/06/09/why-america-cant-build/

Of course the California project was a scam from the beginning.

California could have built a series of new airports and people could be flying between them on a new flight service already. The whole travel project could have been completed already, except environmentalists want Americans to have worse lives, not better lives.

[Ed Grinberg]

Four Reasons Why Heterodox Academy Failed

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

One limp clinger group getting steamrolled by progress, science, and reason criticizes another impotent clinger group getting stomped by modernity, education, and inclusiveness for being unable to influence the tide of the modern American culture war.

Good to know!

[Frank Drackman]

Jerry Sandusky, if only you were limp and impotent 50 years ago!

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

"Sandusky's earliest possible release date will be October 9, 2042."

[Frank Drackman]

too soon! he'll only be 98!

[Nelson]

So here are some gems from the article.

Remember, this is a group whose mission statement is, "The National Association of Scholars upholds the standards of a liberal arts education that fosters intellectual freedom, searches for the truth, and promotes virtuous citizenship.".

They also claim to support, "reasoned scholarship and civil debate". Keep that in mind as you are reading.

"Simply ranting about how much you hate conservatives, Christians, or straight white men can be considered “scholarship” and the basis for a distinguished career."

"The words “skeptic” and “freethinker” can both literally be used as synonyms for “atheist.”"

The article is bemoaning the "failure" of Heterodox Academy (HxA) which, as far as I can tell, is still very much active. It was founded by Jonathan Haidt (psychology professor), Nicholas Rosenkranz (law professor), and Chris Martin (sociologist), who all advocate for more viewpoint diversity in academia (hint: they don't think there need to be more progressive voices).

Here are the four "reasons" that HxA "failed" (again, it is still active and growing).

Reason 1: It Became Another Club for Leftists
Reason 2: It Refuses to Leverage Political Power
Reason 3: HxA Leaders Are Trying to Make a Big-Tent Movement
Reason 4: HxA Won’t Support Heterodoxy on the Most Important Topic*

*which, according to the article, is "genetic differences among races and their potential effect on outcomes"

Holy shit, Ed. Is this really something thay you believe is a rational and reasonable critique? The author is a professor at Cambridge, so he should be aware of what reasoned analysis sounds like, but instead he sounds like a fanatic frothing at the mouth.

[Brett Bellmore]

I don't think that's the most important topic out there, but once you compromise on the idea of open inquiry by declaring certain topics off limits, well, yeah, you're not going to stop compromising.

[Nelson]

Tell Ron DeSantis and the Florida legislature, not me. I'm an unabashed proponent of open inquiry. The ones fighting it are the problem.

[Armchair Lawyer]

What happened in Nashville was a tragedy. But more importantly, I think it demonstrates that rather than rage against a culture of "gun violence", it's more important to demonstrate care and compassion and help for those around you.

Reports are the shooter's parents had a history of statements requesting more gun control on social media. This is a tragedy for all involved, but one wonders if they had spent more time with their daughter, this tragedy may not have occurred.

Greater care and compassion for those having difficulties, emotional isolation, and potentially emotional trauma are really what's needed today. On a family and community level.

[Sarcastr0]

Thoughts and prayers, not policies?

This is a tragedy for all involved, but one wonders if they had spent more time with their daughter, this tragedy may not have occurred.
You fucking suck dude.

[Armchair Lawyer]

You're just trolling and angry.

Take a break. Volunteer. Help some people in person. Helping people and a sense of community is really what is needed.

[Sarcastr0]

Yeah, I am disgusted by evidencelessly speculating your way into accusing the parents of not loving their daughter enough because you don't want any motion on this issue.

You're going to be able to keep your guns without making baseless accusations, so maybe don't do that.

[not guilty]

I wonder if things would have turned out differently if Audrey Hale's Christian parents had accepted and affirmed their offspring's sexual orientation and gender identity. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11912163/Nashville-school-shooter-Audrey-Hales-parents-accept-gay-trans.html

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Or gotten her professional help for her mental health problems.

Virtually no gay/"transgender" individuals whose parents don't embrace their orientation commit mass murder, so pretending that's the underlying cause here is stupid.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Not sure what kind of "professional help" you mean. Treatment of the condition itself is not allowed.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Not sure what kind of “professional help” you mean.

I thought “mental health problems” (you do know she murdered 6 people in cold blood, don’t you?) made the type of professional help being referenced obvious to all but the most obtuse. Are you under the impression that psychiatry is illegal in TN?

[Nelson]

"I thought “mental health problems” (you do know she murdered 6 people in cold blood, don’t you?)"

You think that committing murder is mental illness? So no murderers are sane?

Then there are a lot of people in jail (and dead from execution) that should have been in a mental hospital instead.

[Gandydancer]

Thinking you're a man when you're not is a mental illness.

Killing random 9 year olds is evil.

[Nelson]

It's not mental illness any more than arachnophobia is or ADD or OCD or thousands of other things people live with every day.

And yes, killing people is evil. Killing children, in my mind, is worse.

[Gandydancer]

Arachnophobiais not the same thing as thinking the spiders are out to get you and are talking to each other about how to do it. So, no, an excessive aversion to spiders (or heights, etc.) is not a mental disease. But insisting you are a man born in a woman’s body is.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

You think that committing murder is mental illness? So no murderers are sane?

Since I said no such thing I must conclude that you're either being intentionally dishonest or are just showing off your profound illiteracy.

We're talking specifically about someone who walked into a school and murdered children (as well as adults). If you don't think that strongly suggests severe mental health problems then you'd be well advised to seek the services of a reputable psychiatrist yourself.

[Nige]

Not getting help for their condition would have been detrimental to their mental health, but absent any other evidence emerging, that might be the llimit of how their transgederism contributed to the shooting itself.

[Gandydancer]

"their"

LOL!

[ThePublius]

VC commenters have become much less civil of late. I don't care for the personal insults, attacks, and bad language in this blog. Please stop!

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Sounds like Publius wants you to use fewer vile racial slurs, Prof. Volokh. Any comment on your plans?

[Nelson]

Just accept that there are a lot of angry, frustrated cultural conservatives here who lash out when they are presented with evidence that they are wrong.

Every time someone calls me Shrike or an idiot or evil it's a win for me. Ad hominem attacks come from losing, intellectually. So embrace it when people act with incivility.

[Kleppe]

"Thoughts and prayers, not policies?"

Here's a policy: treat mental illness. If someone is delusional and claiming they are the wrong gender, give them counseling, psychiatric meds, or hoth. Don't buy into their delusions and say "you know what, you really are [the opposite gender]" and then pump them full of testosterone.

[Brett Bellmore]

It hasn't actually been established yet that this woman was on testosterone, that's just speculation at this point.

[ragebot]

"It hasn’t actually been established yet that this woman was on testosterone, that’s just speculation at this point."

A lot of what I am reading in the MSM seems to be real wishy washy in terms of just what she was doing before her rampage. There does seem to be some agreement she saw a shrink but no details on how current her seeing a shrink was and as you point out no details on any drugs the shrink may or may not have put her on.

I have also seen unconfirmed reports that early on she self identified as a male and may have been given grief by students when she was at the religious school as well as her religious parents not being overjoyed with their little girl thinking she was a little boy.

There does seem to be little information about how she paid her bills. Since I spent seven years as an undergrad (in my defense it was in the 1960s when college was cheap and full of sex, drugs, and rock and roll) far be it from me to dis anyone for getting off to a slow start but I was a math major and made money on the side doing math home work for physics students. On the other hand she seems to have attended a fairly expensive private school and was also an art student at Nossi College of Art and Design which charges about $US40,000 a year for a two year degree and $US73,000 a year for a four year degree. I suspect this is in line with the going rate for such schools but does raise the question how she was paying her bills.

There does seem to be agreement that both education and health care are expensive and over priced so how was she able to pay for a shrink (and maybe meds, not sure about that) and go to art school; even if she was living at home. Not to mention buying seven guns according to some reports (and again according to some reports tactical training).

[Nige]

What about the vast majority of mass shooters who aren't trans? What do they think they are? How would changing the classification of trans people for no actual medical purpose but rather to appease transphobes prevent a single shooting by anyone who isn't trans?

[Michael Ejercito]

There is this program called Operation Ceasefire.

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/how-the-gun-control-debate-ignores-black-lives/80445/

Lost in the debate is that even in high-crime cities, the risk of gun violence is mostly concentrated among a small number of men. In Oakland, for instance, crime experts working with the police department a few years ago found that about 1,000 active members of a few dozen street groups drove most homicides. That’s .3 percent of Oakland’s population. And even within this subgroup, risk fluctuated according to feuds and other beefs. In practical terms, the experts found that over a given stretch of several months only about 50 to 100 men are at the highest risk of shooting someone or getting shot.

ProPublica chart Black Americans Murdered by Guns
Most of these men have criminal records. But it’s not drug deals or turf wars that drives most of the shootings.

Instead, the violence often starts with what seems to outsiders like trivial stuff — “a fight over a girlfriend, a couple of words, a dispute over a dice game,” said Vaughn Crandall, a senior strategist at the California Partnership for Safe Communities, which did the homicide analysis for Oakland.

Somebody gets shot. These are men who do not trust the police to keep them safe, so “they take matters into their own hands,” he said. It’s long-running feuds, Crandall said, that drive most murders in Oakland.

Men involved in these conflicts may want a safer life, but it’s hard for them to put their guns down. “The challenge is that there is no graceful way to bow out of the game,” said Reygan Harmon, the director of Oakland Police Department’s violence reduction program.

These insights led a group of Boston police, black ministers and academics to try a new approach in 1996. Since group dynamics were driving the violence, they decided to hold the groups accountable. The plan was simple: Identify the small groups of young men most likely to shoot or be shot. Call them in to meet face-to-face with police brass, former gang members, clergy and social workers. Explain to the invitees that they were at high risk of dying. Promise an immediate crackdown on every member of the next group that put a body on the ground — and immediate assistance for everyone who wanted help turning their lives around. Then follow up on those promises.

The results of Operation Ceasefire were dramatic. Soon after Boston held its first meeting — known as a call-in — on May 15, 1996, homicides of young men plummeted along with reports of shots fired.

[Nige]

I have no difficulty in believing the entire gun control debate treats black people killed by gun violence as a disposable mass, except when racists try to use them to argue that black people have an intrinsic propensity for violence. That sort of community-driven approach to reducing violence doesn't seem all that popular these days.

[Frank Drackman]

So it's just by chance that Black Peoples murder other peoples at a rate 5 times that of other races?

[Nige]

GangrapeGPT you need to go scour corners of the internet that aren't The Daily Stormer if you want more accurate answers that you can regurgitate but never understand.

[Frank Drackman]

So it's not by chance?

[Nige]

Caught in a loop again?

[Brett Bellmore]

He's incapable of reasoning about numbers. It's futile to even try to get him to do it.

[Nige]

Yeah, it's mostly text-based.

[Gandydancer]

The FBI is not The Daily Stormer:
https://www.unz.com/isteve/fbi-blacks-made-up-60-4-of-known-murder-offenders-in-2021/

Fact: Drackman's "Black Peoples murder... at a rate 5 times that of other races" is a considerable inderestimate.

[Nige]

What do you think the bot's conclusions will be? If it's that there are serious societal issues around crime and poverty that disporpotionally affect black people, then its been scraping non-Daily Stormer sites for a change. If it's 'black people have an innate propensity for violence' then I'm afraid its been in the DS again.

[Gandydancer]

He stated a fact. That it's "innate" is the voices in your head, no something he said here. (Though it could be, at least in part. There's the lower IQ and higher testosterone, and the former has an effect ion impulse control. But there are certainly other factors. But I'm not expecting to open the mind of a raving science denialist like you with mere facts. Maybe if you get mugged that would help.)

[Nige]

Congrats, you're both racist!

[Gandydancer]

You're welcome.

[Dr. Ed 2]

"Promise an immediate crackdown on every member of the next group that put a body on the ground"

The groups *will* police their own and if it's too expensive to kill people, its not going to happen.

More than this, you are dealing with young people who have dealt with adults who are inconsistent -- whom they can not trust to be consistent. What they really need is the fixed reference point so they can figure out where *they* are and that requires adults who are consistent.

Saying "we will prosecute each and every member of your gang if *anyone* in it shoots someone" may not be fair or even legal, but it is a clear message that -- if enforced equally -- will become respected and they'll stomp on their own.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

ProPublica chart Black Americans Murdered by Guns

I hope those guns were arrested and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[Gandydancer]

This is a 2015 article. It makes claims. Do the murder stats of Oakland, CA support those?

https://oaklandmofo.com/blog/oakland-homicide-count-is-rising

[MoreCurious]

How about a multi-prong approach consisting of prayers and real action? Keeping in mind that the leading cause of the deaths of children is now firearms, and keeping in mind that the three weapons used by the shooter in Nashville apparently were purchased legally, will we ever come to our senses and enact reasonable legislation that limits the number of semi-automatic weapon one person can buy and the size of magazines that can be used in those weapons? After all, even if you buy into the argument that the drafters of the Second Amendment intended that even non-militia individuals have the right to "keep and bear arms," they could never have anticipated semi-automatic firearms capable of shooting dozens of people in a matter of seconds. So keep hoping that thoughts and prayers will work if you like, but maybe it's time to wake up and do everything we can to make sure that kids are able to get home at the end of the day

[Mr. Bumble]

"Keeping in mind that the leading cause of the deaths of children is now firearms, ..."

Do you have a cite for that?

[Martinned]

Pick one, Google is your friend: https://www.google.com/search?q=leading+cause+of+the+deaths+of+children+is+now+firearms&rlz=1C1GCEU_enGB1040GB1040&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[ragebot]

I am calling bullshit on this.

The definition of children according to this study is 1-19. While many teenagers do act like children I still view them as teenagers (and I suspect a lot of others do as well).

Maybe more to the point is that using the 1-19 definition includes all the corner boys in big shit eating dem cities killing each other over drug territory. As Glen Fry famously said 'No matter if it's heroin, cocaine or hash; You've got to carry weapons 'cause you always carry cash'.

[Life of Brian]

It's actually hard to find studies that don't lump the ages like this -- draw your own conclusions about why.

Looking at the raw CDC fatal injury data, firearm-related deaths for 5-14 year olds were 16.8% of total deaths. Slicing away suicides takes that to 12.5% of total.

Assumptions:

1. This was over a completely arbitrary period of 2011-2020 -- a decade back from the latest year available. I ran one scenario as a 20-year lookback (which seems to somewhat proportionally increase the already ponderous query time) as a sanity check, and it decreased gun deaths by a few % -- maybe suggesting the most recent decade is increasing, but it would take more sampling to see if it's that or if 2001-2010 is a relative dip. I didn't see any way to make this spit out trendlines over time or download the entire data set to do that manually but may have overlooked it.

2. I picked the age range as the best available slice of school-aged kids less the banger contingent (also, 0-4 year olds have a huge number of suffocation deaths that unfairly swell the denominator for this sort of measurement).

[Life of Brian]

Had time to bang on this a bit more: for 15-19 year olds over the same time frame, gun-related deaths were 32.8% of total deaths and 28.9% of non-suicides.

So as expected, putting ages 1-19* in a single bucket drags up the average considerably, due both to the raw percentage increase and the higher weighting of that increase in the average (overall deaths for 15-19 are over 3x that of 5-14).

* And if it's really 1-19 rather than 0-19, that also slyly omits a big chunk of the newborn suffocation deaths I mentioned above. So that's doubly deceptive in the context of discussions like this one.

[Mr. Bumble]

Google is no one's "friend".
The veracity of the statement depends on the parameters of the data and that raises questions as to the truthfulness of the claim; however, I admit the large number of gun deaths is concerning.

[Frank Drackman]

Sets, See, Google "Michael Brown Ferguson Height Weight"
the "Child" was (emphasis on "was") 6'4" 292lbs when shot and killed like the animal he was, wonder how many peoples he would have robbed/murdered in the last 8 years if the Po Po hadn't been on the scene so quickly?

[MoreCurious]

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/22/1094364930/firearms-leading-cause-of-death-in-children

https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/child-and-teen-firearm-mortality-in-the-u-s-and-peer-countries/#:~:text=Firearms%20recently%20became%20the%20number,those%20caused%20by%20other%20injuries.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Dishonestly referring to legal adults (18-19 year olds) as “children” so you can include gang bangers and other habitual criminals killing each other in your stats doesn’t really support your argument, nor make anyone want to take you seriously.

[Nige]

They're still kids being killed by guns.

[Frank Drackman]

just think of it as a really really late term abortion.

[MoreCurious]

In addition to being the dumbest commenter on this site, you are about as despicable as a human being can be.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

A shameless liar like you calling anyone else "despicable" would be amusing were it not so pathetic.

[Frank Drackman]

OK, Daffy Duck, you're probably the Abortion supporter not me, Thufferin' Thuck-atash!!!!

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Still not "kids", are they?

[MoreCurious]

Covering your eyes, ears, and mouth with your hands, as you're doing here, is confirming to everyone that you don't give a damn about kids, dead or alive. Go hug your guns while the rest of us hug our children and show our gratitude that they returned safely from school today.

[Bob from Ohio]

Don't send them into an inner city at night then.

[MoreCurious]

You must be about the only person who fails to realize that the three children shot in Nashville were not in the inner city and it was not night.

[Bob from Ohio]

The point is more children are killed at night in the inner city than in school shootings. Far more.

[Nige]

Because of all the guns. Poverty, too, of course, and a drugs policy that perpetuates the very proplems its supposed to address.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Covering your eyes, ears, and mouth with your hands, as you’re doing here, is confirming to everyone that you don’t give a damn about kids, dead or alive.

I realize that concern for the truth is like kryptonite to assholes like you, but noting that you and those you're citing are lying isn't covering anything.

[Gandydancer]

You don't give a damn about actual children. You're just excited about the opportunity to promote gun grabbing.

[Nige]

Yes, because of all the people, kids and otherwise, killed using guns.

[Gandydancer]

That's not why. That's just the excuse.

[Nige]

Yes, the real reason isn't all the dead and maimed people and grieving families and traumatised survivors, it's to spoil your hobby. It really is all about you.

[Gandydancer]

Don't own a gun. My hobby is exposing liars.

[Bob from Ohio]

"limits the number of semi-automatic weapon one person can buy "

How is this going to stop shootings like the one in Nashville?

She was using one rifle, had a second slung and a holstered handgun. Maybe she could have carried a second handgun but that's it. You can only shoot one rifle at a time.

You can't carry 50 rifles around so the number you have at home is irrelevant.

[Martinned]

So your argument is that America should have more shitty gun control laws because it already has so much shitty gun control???

[Bob from Ohio]

What?

I'm saying MoreCurious' proposd law is useless.

[Martinned]

Yes, because American gun control would be effectively non-existent either way.

[Bob from Ohio]

That's the aim! Sadly California and other civil rights hostile places have a lot.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

So your argument is that America should have more shitty gun control laws because it already has so much shitty gun control???

Lying about what others have said isn't a clever debate tactic. It just makes you a lying sack of shit.

[Martinned]

Recasting it, on the other hand, can be a useful way to make someone understand the implications of the argument they are making. If I want to say what someone else said you'll know, because I'll use "", blockquote tags, or italics.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Recasting it...

...is not even remotely what you did, you ignorant, lying sack of shit.

[Martinned]

Have a swell day too!!!

[Frank Drackman]

Why not a law against First Degree Murder?

[Nige]

I expect a world where their child did not find it trivially easy to obtain guns would be better than the world where they did.

[ThePublius]

Their "child" was 28. Sure, it was their child, but no a child.

[Nige]

That's why I phrased it the way I did?

[OtisAH]

Don’t forget that these are the same folks who whinged about Dems and The Media going after Turnip’s “children,” Junior, The Dumber One, and Ivanka.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

You can be too clever, Nige.

[Nige]

I can overestimate the other commenters' reading skills, too, apparently.

[Gandydancer]

No, you phrased it the way you did because you are a lying sack of shit.

[Nige]

Case in point.

[bernard11]

Reports are the shooter’s parents had a history of statements requesting more gun control on social media. This is a tragedy for all involved, but one wonders if they had spent more time with their daughter, this tragedy may not have occurred.

Oh fuck you.

You know, the discussion of "trans terrorism" and whatnot here is some of the slimiest, most disgusting, hate-filled crap I've ever read on this site.

And this is right in there.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

I guess that depends on who takes their vengeance upon whom?

[Nelson]

Usually it's married heterosexual white males killing their entire family. So if this shooting is a condemnation of trans people as a group, family annihilators are a condemnation of married white males, right?

And since ratio of trans to not trans perpetrators in the 128 mass shootings in America in 2023 is 1:127, I don't understand why the cultural wingnuts are frothing at the mouth about this one, but not the others.

LOL! That's a joke. Everyone understands.

Cultural wingnuts hate trans people in a virulent and irrational way. Even the ones who can keep their shit together when talking about gays lose their minds when discussing trans people.

White cisgender men killing a lot of people is apparently an aberration, but a trans person killing a lot of people is proof of their perfidity.

[Gandydancer]

Serial killers are disproportionately fags.

The rate for trannys isn’t so well established, probably because the number was so small before it became fashionable among lefties and identifying them became easier.

But the rate for fags is definitely higher than among those not so mentally ill.

[Nelson]

Really? Do you have anything other than your uninformed opinion as a source? Maybe some data?

[Gandydancer]

In order to understand reality it is not required that I engage in producing data when observation confirms the unsurprising expectation that the mentally ill are more likely to be serial killers. I’m sure Wikipedia has a list or two. If you need exact data to convince you just check one out. Fags will be punching above their weight. Dahmer, Gacy, Patrick Kearney, Randy Kraft, many many more are in that category. But I need do no errands merely because you demand it. Mere facts will not convince you anyway.

[Nelson]

If you say something, but can't produce any objective support, what do you call that?

[Armchair Lawyer]

Wondering if a family had more compassion, time, and care for their daughter is "some of the slimiest, most disgusting, hate-filled crap I’ve ever read on this site." ?

You don't think families should have more compassion and care for their children, especially when they're suffering? You think wanting care for people who are suffering is "hate-filled"?

[Moderation4ever]

My local Sunday paper had an extensive article about the increasing wait for healthcare service. Reporting that people are having to wait up a year for appointments for simple services like eye examinations. This report refutes a major claim of national health care opponents who point to long waits for healthcare in counties like Canada.

More important it shows the pressures on the American health care market. The American demographic is shifting to older people who will have more health care needs causing increased demand. At the same time, the pandemic has stressed the healthcare system causing providers to leave and decreasing supply.

Like many other things our healthcare system will also have to recover from the pandemic effects.

[Brett Bellmore]

A significant factor is that paperwork loads have increased dramatically, and reimbursement is getting tough, so a lot of doctors are taking early retirement, while it has become a less attractive career at the other end.

[Moderation4ever]

Most doctors work for healthcare systems that deal with a major amount of the paperwork and reimbursement. How to you see paperwork directly affecting the service provider?

[Brett Bellmore]

That's WHY individual practices are declining, and doctors in individual practices used to make more money.

[Gasman]

If you walk the halls of a hospital or clinic, note how much time the docs spend facing a computer terminal versus facing a patient. Time--motion studies have documented this for the past two decades, and there is no sign yet that the digital time-suck has leveled off. When I'm and operating room anesthesiologist my patient:digital ratio is probably 70:30, but on my pain management clinician days it is at best 20:80 patient:digital. A surgeon in the operating room is at best also 70:30 patient:digital because of documentation, notes, orders; then they too have clinic days to see patients, so like me, probably mostly charting.
Why so much charting? some is medico-legal, some is to fairly record thoughts, diagnoses and actions so that those who follow the patient's care know what happened, but most of my box clicking is grooming the chart so that a bill can be generated.
The people in the back office that manage the insurance and billing hassles need juiced charts that stand up to the insurance company scrutiny. This is where so much of my time goes.

[Moderation4ever]

I don't really think that doctors are alone in the phenomenon you have described. Advancing in logging data means that more and more activities including work activities can be tracked and so it is done. Many work activities are monitored to get the optimum effort for the dollar. Think of the warehouse worker who has to complete a task and record it within a time window or technician who must complete a set number of tests in an hour.

[Absaroka]

That's fine, but the claim is that doctors are spending a lot more time touching the keyboard than the patient.

That is absolutely true IMHE. It's kind of a boiling-the-frog thing, so maybe easy to miss.

We had an old fashioned doc for three decades, as in he would meet you at the office for a problem on weekends. For the first 25 years, he spent 90% of the time directly engaged with the patient, then he'd do some quick scribbling on a clipboard. When the electronic stuff became mandatory he would be visibly frustrated at the time he had to spend at the keyboard. He recently changed to a concierge model, explicitly because he wanted more hands on time with patients.

When we moved away and saw 30 years of change all at once it was shocking.

[Brett Bellmore]

Most of the cost savings from datalogging is probably premised on rejections for failures to do it right, and expenditures the doctor just doesn't bother pursuing because the paperwork is such a hassle. They just can't come out and say that.

[ducksalad]

Look at the bright side, when the AI takes over the job it'll be able to do the documentation and billing in under a millisecond, while appearing to spend as much time with you as you like.

On a related issue: we lost a lot when doctors stopped making house calls. A lot of ailments, particularly ones with a psychiatric component to them, don't get treated because the patient is unwilling to go to a doctor. Or in that gap where they are literally too sick to move but not (yet) quite bad enough to call an ambulance.

AI can make house calls....

[Moderation4ever]

I can appreciate your feelings. I had a long-time doctor who anounced that he was taking a promotion in his organization. Since that time, I have had a new doctor about every four years. It is irritating but also common.

You are right about the frog. Computers have a sneaky way of over taking your life. They start out making things easier and then so easy you cannot do without them. So, you are left feeding the keyboard or app. But it is not just doctors, few professions have not been affected in similar ways.

[Absaroka]

"But it is not just doctors, few professions have not been affected in similar ways."

If someone in the marketing department of Acme Corp. hates having to fill out time sheets, that's pretty much not my problem.

When my doctor starts doing perfunctory exams because he is spending all his time typing and clicking, that is my problem. And when the government mandates the vast majority of doctors do that instead of a more traditional approach, that's a problem my government is imposing on two people - my doctor and me.

[Brett Bellmore]

I haven't had an actual doctor in several years, I get by with a nurse practitioner. Since really all I need her for is authorizing tests and access to specialists, it works out fine.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Weird, you'd think the ACA would've solved this.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

My local Sunday paper had an extensive article about the increasing wait for healthcare service. Reporting that people are having to wait up a year for appointments for simple services like eye examinations. This report refutes a major claim of national health care opponents who point to long waits for healthcare in counties like Canada.

Did the "report" include a thorough statistical analysis of wait times across the board in the respective countries, or did it just present some anecdotes and/or cherry-picked data points?

[Moderation4ever]

On Monday March 27th North Carolina became the 40th state to accept Medicaid expansion. Another indicator that the Affordable Care Act (ACA) continue to become a permanent part of healthcare in this country. While it started slow the ACA has made steady progress against political headwinds. The only alternative really offered was national healthcare as Medicare for All and that has yet to get the support needed to replace the ACA.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

I wonder why the ACA didn't solve our healthcare problems and why we still have a crisis that needs solving.

[OtisAH]

It will be healthier for you in the long run if you stop furrowing your brow and wondering about things you have no interest in understanding. Self-care first, dude.

[Frank Drackman]

C'mon Man, if you liked your doctor, you got to keep your doctor! didn't you?

[Ben_]

"…why we still have a crisis that needs solving."

Permanent crisis is what government is all about. You don’t expect bureaucrats to go out into the wilderness and get productive jobs, do you?

[Nelson]

"I wonder why the ACA didn’t solve our healthcare problems"

Because there is no such thing as a silver bullet and everyone knows it?

It's almost like you are creating an impossible standard for the ACA to meet, just as a way to criticize it.

Given the excellent plan that conservatives have been working tirelessly to pass ... wait, they haven't come up with one in the 13 years since the ACA passed? They haven't even tried? Even when they had all three branches? Even though Trump had the best plan ever and it was constantly coming out in two weeks?

People who criticize things, but never come up with their own plan, are pointless whiners who waste everyone's time.

[Moderation4ever]

On the light side, my local newspaper reports today that an Australian company has made a synthetic mammoth meatball using the genetic code of the woolly mammoth. So not only can we look forward to Kobo beef or Muscovy Duck synthetic meat, but maybe even Dodo tenders.

[Mr. Bumble]

Yes, they made it, but no one has the balls to eat it.

[Nelson]

I read that. They did it to prove it could be done, but they didn't try to meet food-grade standards so no one can eat it. Now they are going to go back and figure out how to make it meet the standards.

[ThePublius]

Regarding the Tennessee shooter, background checks still don't work. By "work" I mean they don't prevent this kind of situation. For a variety of civil rights and information privacy reasons, they rely upon people telling the truth on forms they fill out when they purchase a gun. We only find out they lied when it's too late.

For these to work, we need to close the loop between mental health care and background checks.

One problem with this is that it may discourage people from seeking professional help for mental health issues as they won't want to forever disqualify themselves from gun ownership or other pursuits.

I don't know the answer. I only know it doesn't work.

[DaveM]

My understanding is that the terrorist was undergoing medical treatment for mental health issues, but this fact did not surface in any of the five times she purchased weapons or ammunition.

If this is correct, then that is certainly part of your answer: a system that isn’t used certainly won’t do any good.

Let me also add that firearms are not inexpensive. I'd have to think hard to justify buying, storing, and caring for even one, much less five. Someone who has that kind of spare time and money is going to be very, very hard to defeat. I felt the same way after the Las Vegas shooter. Someone that dedicated to destruction is going to find a way, regardless of means.

[ThePublius]

Yes, it's not that the system wasn't used, it's that the private mental health information of a person isn't in the NICS database.

[Noscitur a sociis]

It’s not in NICS because simply having mental health problems, or seeking treatment for them, doesn’t disqualify someone from a firearms purchase: the relevant prohibition only applies to someone who “has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution at 16 years of age or older”.

[Frank Drackman]

They're not that expensive

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Depends on the 'hood you're living in...

[Nelson]

"My understanding is that the terrorist"

Terrorist? Really? Is that what you call all mass shooters, or just this one?

"Let me also add that firearms are not inexpensive."

An AR-15 is about $1000, less than one week's pay given the average salary of $53,490.

"Someone that dedicated to destruction is going to find a way, regardless of means."

So don't even try? Is that your position?

[Gandydancer]

The tranny doesn't seem to having been making $53,490/yr.

But maybe she had an allowance

[Nelson]

I used the American average because I didn't know how much he made. So, since you know, how much did he make?

[Gandydancer]

SHE wasn’t employed much, and doesn’t seem to have been very employable. Lived at her parents, which is evidence too. Why do I need to know more than that for the statement I made?

Don’t attempt to demand homework in ordinary conversation. It’s tedious. Do your own.

[Nelson]

So we're just supposed to assume that your completely uninformed speculation is fact?

If you know what his income was, by all means, we should adjust the math. Buy if yiu don't have any clue, maybe we just use the average because you have to use something.

Either way, guns aren't very expensive.

[Moderation4ever]

Part of the problem is a misunderstanding of mental health problems. The problem with guns is not the person with mental health problems, but a person in a mental health crisis. A crisis is a short-term event likely trigger by some life event, like job loss, a divorce or other traumatizing event.

These require red flag laws and waiting periods between purchase and delivery. Society needs to be able to withhold guns for a short period until the person can pass through the crisis.

The biggest problem we have right now is that acts of violence have become the norm for the person in a crisis. The response to this is to say there is nothing that can done and in doing so reinforcing the norm. Even if nothing can be done, people need to reflect a view that something will be done. Tougher background checks may not stop people but it shows that we will try.

[ThePublius]

"acts of violence have become the norm for the person in a crisis"

No they haven't! They are the exception. People have mental health crises every day - millions of them, all over the nation, and don't resort to violence.

And, I might add that I disagree that it's only people having a temporary crisis who resort ti violence, some people are mentally ill and don't value life, or get a thrill form killing, and so forth. Think serial murderers, some mass murderers, etc. People who plot their actions out, write manifestos, and so on, are not suffering a short term crisis.

[Brett Bellmore]

In fact, most violence in this country isn’t committed by people in any sort of crisis at all. It’s committed by people with poor impulse control who tend to accumulate long records of violent actions.

This isn’t a new finding, it’s been known by criminologists going back a couple centuries: Most violent crime is committed by a small minority of aberrant individuals.

The gun control movement is fond of the myth that murderers are just ordinary people who suddenly ‘snap’, because it justifies their focus on disarming ordinary people.

The Nashville killer is unusual in NOT having a criminal record. (Not yet clear whether she has a juvenile record, though.) I’ve seen some speculation that one of the contributing factors was the killer taking testosterone for ‘transition’ purposes. It’s well understood that testosterone causes aggressive impulses, which actual males have to learn to cope with while going through puberty.

Of course, it’s not established if the killer actually was taking testosterone, yet, so that’s all speculative. But it does raise an interesting point: Most violent crime is on the part of men, basically men who didn’t learn to control those violent impulses while going through puberty.

Are we starting to see an issue with women taking testosterone as part of ‘transitioning’ suffering from ‘roid rage’ without having been already socialized to control their tempers? And if it were happening, would it even be reported under the current climate?

[Nige]

Wow, you really spun up some utterly made-up shit at the end there. Women already have testosterone, some have quite a lot, and there are very few women who don’t have extensive experience controlling their tempers. There’s zero evidence for trans men experiencing anything like ‘roid rage’ because of testosterone treatments. Because it’s adressing a dysphoria that can cause extreme distress, it actually has a calming affect. For fuck’s sake Brett.

[Brett Bellmore]

"Women already have testosterone, some have quite a lot"

What are you, a nutcase? Yeah, women have circulating testosterone, just like men have circulating estrogen. But the normal range for women is 15 to 70 ng/dL, and the normal range for men is more like 300-1000. At the point where a woman would be under medical treatment for the masculinizing effects of excess testosterone, a man would be considered to have a serious deficiency!

Men and women aren't even in the same ballpark, in terms of normal levels of sex hormones!

[Nige]

Pretty sure women experiencing excess testosterone are more likely to end up depressed and irritable rather then going on a school shooting.

[Frank Drackman]

Of course, Testosterone makes their (get it? I'm saying "their" and not "Her") Pussy all dry and itchy, you'd get irritable too

[Nige]

EdgebotGBT being all edgy.

[Frank Drackman]

Wow, you're really cool using "bot" in a sentence, can you print that out on your Dot Matrix Printer from Compuserve and Fax it to me?

[Nige]

Edgebot just found some jokes from the 1990s.

[Brett Bellmore]

Yeah, I'd think that, too. But the question is, are they more likely to go on rampages than women who have normal testosterone levels, not whether they're more likely to go on a rampage than some rather more common thing.

[Nige]

Well, no, because we only have this one example of someone like that going on a rampage and absolutely no evidence to link the rampage to the hormone, so 'more likely' is nonsensical.

[Frank Drackman]

You've obviously never raised daughters, (mine turned out to be Military Fighter Pilots, and I'd hate to have either on my "6"(I'd tell you...) when they're OTR (Also known as "Late Luteal Phase Dysphoric Syndrome (ICD 10 F32.81) which unlike all the "Cis-Trans" Bull shit is an actual Medical Condition (Boy, is it an actual Medical Condition)
Amazing thing is that more Bee-otches haven't done the Eric Harris/Klebold thang

Frank

[Nige]

Edgebot being edgy about his own bot-daughters - super extra edgebot!

[Gandydancer]

By "excess testosterone causes irritability" you are referring to how many ng/ml?

[Nige]

Ask your medical practitioner for advice on that issue, Gandy.

[Gandydancer]

So you pulled your claim so directly from your butt that it landed on the page brown and stinky.

[Nige]

Wow, you must be really peaking on the ol' T there Gandy.

[Gandydancer]

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean, but you chose to introduce the assertion "excess testosterone causes irritability" into a discussion of the difference between male and female testosterone levels where mg/nl was specified. My question was entirely reasonable, but your response indicated that you had bloviated with no idea what you were talking about.

[bevis the lumberjack]

“acts of violence have become the norm for the person in a crisis”.

Absurd. In a country of >300 million people, there are thousands of people “in crisis” at any moment. It violence were the norm for these folks there would be dozens of these attacks every week.

You’re way too deep into breathless overhype.

[Krayt]

Thanks to evening national news, then 24 hour cable, then Internet, 350 million people become a single village where people hang out in the town square in front of the giant church.

I prognosticated a prospective galactic civilization of a hundred billion inhabited planets (one per four stars, that's how damned big a galaxy is) each with billions of people.

"We now go live to Klaxxon 6, where a 200 story building is collapsing. As you can see..."

"I'm sorry to interrupt, Lorthgar, but on Rudi 12, an entire continental shelf just collapsed and half a billion people are sliding into the ocean. Oh the humanoidity! Look at..."

"Pardon the interruption, but a 70 mile asteroid just hit..."

And so on. Now try a universal civilization of 2 trillion galaxies. You'd have the "10 billion killed by a supernova every minute" channel. Collapsing 200 story buildings every second won't even get noticed.

One thing's for sure, though. Pontificating politicians will be blowing hot air.

[Gandydancer]

"Tougher background checks may not stop people but it shows that we will try."

Leftys are so fond of forcing lemming-like pointless virtue signaling on the rest of us.

[Ben_]

Add it to the list of imperfect human institutions.

Maybe we will someday realize that paperwork schemes to control people aren't a good answer.

[apedad]

GOP rift exposed as senators warn McCarthy against Iraq vote

Prominent Senate Republicans are warning House Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) not to hold a vote on a Senate-passed bill repealing authorization for the use of military force in Iraq without making major changes to it, laying bare the growing Republican divide over national security.

McCarthy faces a tough decision after 18 Republican senators voted with 45 Democrats and three Democratic-aligned Independents Wednesday to repeal the war authorizations Congress passed in 1991 and 2002, sending it to the House.

Some Republicans see the internal rift over repealing the authorization for use of military force (AUMF) as part of a larger battle within the party over America’s role in maintaining global order and future defense spending, as well as support for the war in Ukraine.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3924776-gop-rift-exposed-as-senators-warn-mccarthy-against-iraq-vote/

Repealing the authorization for use of military force (AUMF, passed in 1991 and 2002), is LOOOOOOONNNNNGGGGG overdue.

Repeal it and - if necessary - pass something new.

[bevis the lumberjack]

Assuming there was ever an actual objective for our excursion into Iraq, it has either been accomplished or rendered meaningless by now. There’s no rational argument for having not just one, but two, open authorizations for any president to use force in Iraq.

I can’t see an argument for Congress failing to take this power back.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

Amen. And in future always put strict time limits on force authorizations. And take action against executive administrations that engage in military action without congressional authorization.

[Krayt]

Oh, I can see plenty of reasons for Congress not to take it back. It's the same reason they keep renewing intrusive domestic spy laws -- there is little practical (i.e. voter) downside to renewal, and a huge problem if there is an incident. Then opponents can call them weak fools who all but encouraged it.

And if you aren't in power, corruption spigots dry up.

[John F. Carr]

The Iraq vote, which split Senate Republicans too, isn't important.

The AUMF for the war on terror is more important and the Senate voted by a large margin not to repeal it. Voting to repeal: Baldwin (D-WI), Braun (R-IN), Cardin (D-MD), Lee (R-UT), Markey (D-MA), Paul (R-KY), Sanders (I-VT), Vance (R-OH), Warren (D-MA). https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1181/vote_118_1_00065.htm

[apedad]

Ah...so two votes.

The AUMF vote you posted that didn't pass and the Iraq vote that did pass: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1181/vote_118_1_00077.htm

[Nelson]

Interesting mix of people voting to repeal the war on terror. Also depressingly low.

The "war on terror" is just a blank check for a President to start a war by claiming it's part of the war on terror.

[DaveM]

Twitter has (had?) a policy of suspending any account that posted an image or the text of the "Trans Day of Vengeance" poster, regardless of the context (that is, whether it was pro or con). The stated reason was that including that information was by definition inciting acts of violence, because it included the word, "vengeance" and a place, date, and time.

So. Good censorship, or bad?

[DaveM]

Forgot to link to Twitter's thread on this topic from their Safety team: https://twitter.com/TwitterSafety/status/1641127428507549696

[ThePublius]

Bad censorship. My default answer regarding censorship is that it's bad. In this case, it's very bad, as it hinders discussion and examination of the issue, and seemingly protects the promoters of and community represented by this "event," which seems to promote violence.

[Brett Bellmore]

I think "seems" is a bit of an understatement here.

[Nige]

'Has been linked to an act of violence by opportunistsic right wing extremists and sensation-seeking media.'

I mean, once the two things were in proximity this was inevitable, but let's not pretend there's anything else going on until more details emerge.

[Brett Bellmore]

Nige, they literally say day of "vengeance". Is vengeance a peaceful word in your native language?

And the poster called for participants to come wearing masks. You really think they were asking for that over concerns about people coughing?

They're just gaslighting people about having peaceful intent.

[Nige]

Yes, it's quite a strong word. Perhaps they feel quite strongly about all the murdered trans people. Is it more intrinsically violent than various groups and politicians who call for or threaten a new civil war?

It can do both. You live in this weird world where trans and liberal and black activists have nothing to fear by being identified and tracked by law enforcement authorities, or even identified online by extremists hostile to them, even when their demontrations are peaceful. They do not.

The average Proud Boy demo has worse language, masks and guns, too.

[Brett Bellmore]

"All the murdered trans people"? Trans people aren't murdered at any higher a rate than regular people, quite the contrary.

"A total of 143,397 homicides were reported in the NVDRS from 2003 to 2018. Analysis of coding and narrative reports identified 147 transgender victims, comprising 0.1% of homicides in the NVDRS. This is compared to an estimated 0.6% of the U.S. population who are trans."

The rate of trans murders is only going up because so many more people are calling themselves "transgender". And it's gone up from incredibly low to merely unusually low.

[Nige]

I don't know why you think there's a minimum number of murders that has to be reached before people can get angry about them. Why, if you reduce them to statistics, they're supposed to be drained of emotional impact.

Also, you realise that the link you provide agrees with the assessment that the level of transgender murders is an epidemic, right? And that many transgender victims were classed as non-transgender?

Between downplaying school shootings, mass shootings, police shootings, covid deaths and transgender murders, you guys spend a lot of time arguing that a bunch of dead people is no big deal.

[Brett Bellmore]

Nige, the link I provided literally shows transgenders to be about six times LESS likely to be murdered than other people! Did you not pick up on that? You’re calling THAT an epidemic?

If being murdered six times less often justifies a day of vengeance, what are straights entitled to? A week of vengeance? Or just six times the vengeance on one day?

At this point I've about concluded that you're psychologically innumerate; That you're just flatly incapable of reasoning about numbers if your emotions kick in.

[Nige]

Yes, they are calling that an epidemic.

What the fuck are you trying to do, quantify the exact number of murders that have to occur before someone gets mad, or scared because they’re people like them? I get that your extreme gun ideology requires a culturally and politically enforced complascency in regard to violent deaths, and that this requirement has completely numbed whatever empathy you once had, but people who think 147 murdered people is a lot are the norm, not you.

And then you'll claim cities are crime-ridden hell-holes even though crime levels have been on a long decline.

[Brett Bellmore]

Like I said, you’re emotionally incapable of reasoning about numbers. To an extent that would be impossible to parody.

Here’s a clue: Jews didn’t complain about the Holocaust because they were six times LESS likely than the average German to end up dead.

If transgenders are being targeted for murder, it’s by Wrong Way Corrigan.

[Nige]

'Like I said, you’re emotionally incapable of reasoning about numbers.'

No, I'm not politically committed to minimising them in case it interferes with my hobby.

Transgender people complain about the Holocaust, too, because they were victims of it.

[OtisAH]

Brett is one of those “thanks to the police *ONLY* three teachers and three children were murdered” guys.

[Frank Drackman]

6 is alot better than 66, or 666 (Now THAT would be a "Mass Shooting")

[OtisAH]

Hopefully you’ll reach out to victims’ families and soothe them with how much worse it could have been. That’ll be a real comfort.

[Gandydancer]

Thanks to quick and good shooting by the police only three teachers and three children were murdered by the tranny bitch instead of more.

[Nige]

Thanks to the ease with which people can acquire high-powered weaponry, they were able to kill three students and three teachers.

[Gandydancer]

"They"? I thought her preferred pronoun was "he", but you're too Woke for that?

[Nige]

You really are enjoying the opportunity afforded by six dead people to wallow in slurs and That One Joke.

[Gandydancer]

You really would be enjoying more the opportunity afforded by six dead people to push your gun-grabbing agenda if no one pushed back, right?

[Bored Lawyer]

Mindless = Bad.

"Hey let's go kill that guy." /= "Hey, that guy is coming to kill me."

But acc. to Twitter, it is.

[OtisAH]

It’s not censorship, good or bad. It’s a violation of Twitter’s Terms of Service, which Twitter created and enforces as it chooses and Users consent to. If you want to post pics and rants about that alleged event there are plenty of places for you to do so. Parler, Truth Social, Gettr I think still exists. That Stormer site. A few even less successful but more rock-ribbed MAGA apps too, probably.

[Gandydancer]

It may be censorship that Twitter is entitled according to its TOS to engage in but saying that it isn't censorship is just stupid.

[LawTalkingGuy]

DeSantis’s Reedy-Creek takeover faced a major setback when they found out that the prior board and Disney had approved restrictive covenants on the land that gives final control to Disney more or less.

Lawyer Twitter had a lot of fun with the “royal lives clause” that appeared to be for the purpose of making the covenants consistent with the rule against perpetuities. Something you learn for school but rarely see in real life.

But it was pointed out that restrictive covenants aren’t contingent interests and therefore aren’t usually subject to RAP. And is more of a a CYA boilerplate move (ie a court can’t construe whatever it is as violating RAP).

Although I don’t know FL property/real estate law and things might be different down there (and I absolutely am not going down a FL restrictive covenants rabbit-hole later) but that’s the gist of what’s going on.

I assume DeSantis/FL legislature will try to respond, but that might cause some Contracts Clause issues apparently.

In the meantime it is extremely hilarious that the conservative cultural warrior FedSoc lawyers who want to Retvrn got bested by the Mouse using some very old and very traditional property law.

[grb]

Indeed. I would assume the folk on this site – Libertarians, faux-Libertarians, pretend-Libertarians, and posturing-Libertarians – will all praise Disney’s humiliation of DeSantis. Even the Conservatives should join in the exaltation, since a private business shouldn't be bullied by a petty second-rate government tyrant.

[Ed Grinberg]

a private business shouldn’t be bullied by a petty second-rate government tyrant.

Where were you during the COVID "lockdowns"?!

[bevis the lumberjack]

Disney is indoctrinating children so they suck. DeSantis is punishing companies for their speech, so he sucks.

See? How hard is that?

And you criticizing faux and pretend and posturing libertarians when you yourself are nowhere near libertarian is not really all that credible.

[LawTalkingGuy]

“Disney is indoctrinating children”

Lol. LMAO. They’re indoctrinating them into convincing their parents to give Disney money. That’s it lol. They produce some of the most anodyne and least interesting and least challenging content imaginable so broad groups of people will buy it. Have you ever watched a Disney movie?

Disney follows trends. They realized that most people with money and kids are far more accepting of various types of people and don’t like culture war bullshit. So they tepidly push back against culture war laws and they tepidly introduce more diversity into their offerings. That’s all Disney does. I mean seriously the first black princess was in freaking 2009. If anything Disney is a major lagging indicator of cultural shifts.

[bevis the lumberjack]

Have you watched Disney junior lately? I doubt it.

Nobody but you and guys like cbd give a shit that Jasmine is an Arab.

I’ve sat in the room with my five year-old grandson while he watches Disney. Just one example - the 2ish minute ridiculous infomercial on microaggressions that I’ve seen several times has nothing to do with separating parents from their money.

That’s not recognizing people of different cultures, which no reasonable person cares about. That’s straight up progressive/woke/CRT bullshit being pumped at very small children.

Don’t be so smug and try looking at something before you spout off on it.

[LawTalkingGuy]

Huh. I always pictured you as a 20 year old edgelord.

Seriously though: what's actually bad about making sure you're not being a dick to people by being mindful of how you talk? That's what the entire microaggression trend is about. It's described weird sociological language, but that's all it is. Asking an Asian person where they're actually from after they say Boston is a microaggression. And you obviously shouldn't do that because its rude and presumptive and the kind of question you ask if you're being a dick.

I swear the entire conservative cultural movement is based on the premise they should be able to say offensive things to and about others and no one should be allowed to call them assholes for it. It really doesn't have much other content beyond that.

[bevis the lumberjack]

I’m a 65 year old actual libertarian, although I’m not one of the “near anarchy” libertarians. That’s why I’m always getting yelled at for “bothsidesism” because from my perspective both sides actually suck.

Microaggression is a stupid thing to whine about. It’s basically a description of someone unintentionally aggravating someone else, which has been a thing since we crawled out of the primordial ooze.

This particular commercial starts with a white kid at a playground and his black friend walks up with his mother, who is white. The white kid innocently says, almost admiringly, “ wow, I’d have never guessed that was your mom”. An obnoxious little black bitch drops out of the sky and spends the next few minutes chewing the white kid’s ass over an innocuous remark.

That’s pure indoctrination. And divisive. The message kids learn is that we need to be constantly pissed off at other people (particularly those of other races) over contrived insults. It’s actively harmful.

[LawTalkingGuy]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA This is your complaint??!?! This is funnier than anything I could have ever imagined. I at least thought it would deal with trans people or even gay people.

Dude, you're seriously mad that "an obnoxious little black bitch" would DARE tell you and your family to consider that other kids might be in interracial families. You could have saved some time and typing if you just said the word you clearly meant: she was "uppity."

[bevis the lumberjack]

Oh, fuck off with your politically tinged horseshit. If the cartoon character had been white and done the same thing I’d have called her a little white bitch.

She inserted herself into someone else’s conversation and spent time trying to make an innocent kid feel bad. She’s the aggressor She’s a bitch. The colors of the characters weren’t up to me.

And you’re making assumptions based on your political brain that are terribly wrong. You don’t know anything at all about my or my family and you assume based on your political pathology. Among my siblings and in-laws there are more than one mixed race family and everyone gets along fine.

The bias here is in you because politics has turned you into a smug prick.

[Nige]

This is amazing. In a rage at a cartoon character in an infomercial. Brett would tell you to check your testosterone levels.

[LawTalkingGuy]

I may be a smug prick, but I'm dead on here: you are cranky that a black woman told your grandkids to be mindful of others. That's your complaint.

"She’s the aggressor She’s a bitch."

This is absolutely unhinged shit man. How do you not see that?

[bevis the lumberjack]

Two hours ago you had me as a 20 year old edgelord. Your judgment of people you don’t know on the internet is completely fucked up by your political filters.

You don’t even know what race I am, except that I’ve mentioned I’ve got a bit of Cherokee in there. If there’s a racist here, it’s you.

And you sprinted away from the point. Why does Disney feel the need to teach kids to get pissy with each other over nothing?

[LawTalkingGuy]

I don’t need to know what race you are to know that complaining about the obnoxious little black bitch on kids TV is unhinged and not normal.

[bevis the lumberjack]

Bob and weave, baby. Bob and weave.

Dodge the question of why Disney is teaching divisiveness over nothing to tiny children. Perhaps you support that because you’re a fucking racist. Or maybe decisiveness is ok with you because it feeds your craving to be superior.

I’m tired of asking a question that you obviously don’t care to address.

[Nige]

'is teaching divisiveness over nothing'

It's doing the literal opposite.

[LawTalkingGuy]

Disney isn't' teaching any of that. It's in your head. The lesson is: be mindful of others and their backgrounds and don't be surprised when their experience isn't the same as yours. Families come in all kinds. Yet here you are having an insane rage-filled conniption about it.

"Perhaps you support that because you’re a fucking racist."

You're the one complaining about the "obnoxious little black bitch."

"Or maybe decisiveness is ok with you because it feeds your craving to be superior."

It's incredibly easy feel superior to a 65 year old man having a melt-down over a two minute cartoon on children's TV. The only thing making me feel superior right now is you being so upset by this. So if you want to take me down a peg or two, maybe chill out?

[OtisAH]

“Two hours ago you had me as a 20 year old edgelord.”

That’s on you, not him. “A 20 year old edgelord” is 100% how you present. Maybe reflect on that a little?

Just kidding. Ride on you crazy diamond…

[loki13]

“You don’t even know what race I am, except that I’ve mentioned I’ve got a bit of Cherokee in there.”

Of you you’ve “got a bit of Cherokee{.}”

Of course you do. Isn’t it funny that we just had years of conservative trolls attacking someone from Oklahoma because she believed she had Native American ancestry, not even bothering to realize that they regularly invoke it, incorrectly. And always in the same way.

“I can’t be racist when I called her an obnoxious little black bitch! I have Cherokee in my past!!!!!!”

You know … some of my best friends have Cherokee ancestry. ????

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Of course you do. Isn’t it funny that we just had years of conservative trolls attacking someone from Oklahoma because she believed she had Native American ancestry

If you're referring to lily-white Elizabeth Warren, nobody "attacked" her because she allegedly believed anything. She was criticized for claiming to be Native American...not just claiming some small amount of ancestral heritage, but being NA as her primary ethnicity...when at Harvard AND filling out her TX Bar registration card. Oh, and later being rather less than forthright about having done so. BTW, prior to 1986 she thought she was white, as evidenced by her consistently identifying as such on forms with ethnicity questions until then.

The DNA test she eventually took was interpreted by a professor at Stanford as showing that she "likely" (not positively) "had at least one Native American ancestor some six to 10 generations ago". So she is "likely" somewhere between 1/64th and 1/1024th Native American. In other words, somewhere between 98.4% and 99.9% NOT Native American. Hardly a good basis for identifying as an ethnic minority and choosing the "Native American" identifier over the "White/Caucasian" (or whatever) one.

Oh, and it wasn't just conservative "trolls" who gave her grief about the matter.

https://theintercept.com/2018/10/16/elizabeth-warren-dna-video-native-american-harvard/

[Gandydancer]

Quite the mobbing by Lefty going on here.

The little black bitch harassing the the white kid over his perfectly reasonable surprise that the mother of a black kid was white wasn’t some random cartoon character. This was Disney speaking in a gratuitous infomercial. With a shitty message urging racial grievance over nothing as the norm behind the backs of parents. I hope they go bankrupt and I approve any effort by Desantis that pushes them in that direction, though he will of course have to overcome opposition from the Woke mafias to Disney getting its just desserts.

[LawTalkingGuy]

Yep,You’re definitely a normal person with normal attitudes.

[Gandydancer]

Whereas yours are completely out to lunch.

[LawTalkingGuy]

Challenge: go to a regular bar and strike up a conversation with someone. Talk about how mad you are that "[t]he little black bitch harassing the the white kid over his perfectly reasonable surprise that the mother of a black kid was white wasn’t some random cartoon character."

I'll do the same and talk about literally anything else.

Let's report back on our experiences and see which one of us was considered "out to lunch."

[Gandydancer]

Why should I let you get away with talking about something irrelevant? Go to a real bar, not your usual foo-foo one with all the limp-wristed soy boys, and start talking about how Disney is doing good work by propagandizing black kids to grow up looking for imaginary micro-aggressions, then get back to me with the video.

[Nige]

‘The message kids learn is that we need to be constantly pissed off at other people (particularly those of other races) over contrived insults’

Nah, the message is there are things other people find insulting that you ought to be aware of. You being utterly oblivious and even hostile to the idea that there are things other people might find insulting, however mildly, simply because you don’t is illustrative.

[Gandydancer]

I don't give a fuck if some rando black Karen declares herself "insulted" by a perfectly reasonable and unobjectionable expression of surprise. She needs to mind her own business.

[Nige]

That's because you're an enormous racist arsehole, though. Kids can be better than that.

[Gandydancer]

Or they could grow into the likes of you, which is pretty awful, but Disney is trying to pull it off,

[Nige]

That’s one thing in Disney’s favour, then.

[Gandydancer]

Not with me. Or their customer Bevis.

[JasonT20]

It’s basically a description of someone unintentionally aggravating someone else, which has been a thing since we crawled out of the primordial ooze.

When I envision someone unintentionally aggravating someone else because they said something that the other found offensive and aimed at them, then I imagine this as a typical response:

"Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. I'll try and be more careful with my choice of words."

If the person gets defensive instead, and they start talking about why no one should have been offended by what they said, then I would think that they didn't really care about whether they offended anyone. And that would fit with LawTalkingGuy's description of cultural conservatives being anti-woke.

That’s pure indoctrination. And divisive. The message kids learn is that we need to be constantly pissed off at other people (particularly those of other races) over contrived insults. It’s actively harmful.

Why was that a contrived insult? Doubting someone's parentage is pretty much always insulting, even if unintentional. It would be especially insulting if it was something that happened frequently. You could argue that the response was over-the-top in tone and umbrage, but to dismiss it as not insulting at all is to not even think about how the child might feel about someone being 'surprised' that their mother is their mother because of something that has been a basis of discrimination.

[bevis the lumberjack]

He didn’t doubt someone’s heritage. He expressed surprise that his friend’s mother was other than what he expected. Obviously I’m this instance it isn’t something that happened frequently because HE WAS SUPRISED AT THE APPEARANCE OF HIS FRIEND’S MOTHER. Because, you know, he’d never seen her before.

[JasonT20]

Obviously I’m this instance it isn’t something that happened frequently because HE WAS SUPRISED AT THE APPEARANCE OF HIS FRIEND’S MOTHER. Because, you know, he’d never seen her before.

Swing and a miss. It easily could be something that a mixed race child might encounter frequently. But hey, way to keep looking at it from the white kid's perspective.

[Gandydancer]

The black kid has not been described as being offended, just the intruding bitch Karen was. But since this is an entirely made up incident designed to push Disney's POV maybe they did have the two of them gang up on the white kid. But the black kid had no more basis than the interfering bitch to get offended so, no, in real life I would tell the Karen to fuck off and the black kid (or his mother) to get the chip off his shoulder.

[LawTalkingGuy]

“ in real life I would tell the Karen to fuck off and the black kid (or his mother) to get the chip off his shoulder.”

Totally normal person we got here.

[Gandydancer]

You wouldn’t know “Normal” if it bit you on the ass.

But was I said was perfectly sensible and you don’t have a response beyond toothless insult. Noted.

[LawTalkingGuy]

You, a supposed adult, imagined yourself heroically lecturing/winning an argument with cartoon characters from a commercial aimed at kids. Then, as if that bizarre image appearing in your brain wasn't weird enough on its own, you decided to type that fantasy out so that everyone could see that's what you are thinking.

Since I've never done that I am pretty confident that I have a better grasp on what is both normal and sensible.

[Gandydancer]

That doesn't seem likely since you have such a poor grasp on what actually happened here.

[Kazinski]

I've walked into a Japanese variety store with my daughter and been questioned because she looked too asian to be my daughter.

I wasn't too upset, but my wife was estatic when I told her.

[Gandydancer]

Was the questioning hostile?

It's not like white guy/Asian wife is frowned on by too many whites (though I've encountered some online), but maybe Asians feel the downside of out-marriage more strongly.

[Sarcastr0]

Anyone watch TV in the 1960s? The were just as indoctrinatey, and not just aimed at the kids!

And the 1990s were in *no way* free from PSAs, were they bad too?

Cultural institutions gonna culture. Many get mad because you don't like it now, based on their own priors, buy were blind to it when you approved of it.

It's tilting and windmills. This is baked into how all art works.

[Gandydancer]

The visceral objection is to HOSTILE indoctrination.

Of HIS kids.

By someone he's hired to entertain them.

But you're playing dumb as usual.

[LawTalkingGuy]

The visceral reaction is actually because you’re angry weirdos. Hope that helps.

[Gandydancer]

Since the subject is Bevis’ objection, which you reject out of hand, the idea that you are in any position to “help” anyone understand it is absurd.

[Nige]

Say what you will about Disney, they're utterly awful, but they make good shows and they like their public face to be as friendly and kid-positive as possible. In the 1980s any anti-bullying infomercials would have been indoctrination, in the 1990s an infomercial on how not to be homophobic would have been indoctrination, in the 2000s an infomercial on how not to be racist to anyone of Arab appearance because of 9-11 would have been indoctrination, in the 2010s an infomercial on healthy eating (especially if Michelle Obama was involved) would have been indoctrination. Reactionaries HATE those types of indoctrination.

[Gandydancer]

Encouraging blacks to put chips on their shoulders isn't remotely the same "type' of infomercial as encouraging healthy eating, though Obama's ugly mug could certainly put you off your feed.

[Nige]

Being interested in other peoples' thoughts and feelings takes a stretch, and clearly black people are barely human to you, but maybe one day you won't find them the dreadful imposition you do now.

[LawTalkingGuy]

Lol. Just say “uppity” why waste all this space?

[Gandydancer]

I'm "wasting" all this space to push back on the wokesters mobbing Bevis of course.

[Nige]

Why would libertarians object to Disney indoctrinating children?

[LawTalkingGuy]

I'm still stuck on what subversive bad things the American right thinks Disney is indoctrinating kids into.

[bevis the lumberjack]

I’m not the American right and I gave you an example above. You have no idea what you’re talking about because you don’t have children around so you’re not interacting with Disney.

[LawTalkingGuy]

"I’m not the American right"

Okay. But you do reflexively defend their cultural positions and positions on many other things. Basic political science shows that self-described independents or leaners are as partisan or even more partisan than self-described partisans.

I actually do have nieces and nephews. They watch Disney and have been to Disney. So do all my friends kids. They are all fine and normal.

Seriously you're just a grumpy old man who is pissed that some children's show is telling kids to be nice. That's it. That's your complaint.

[bevis the lumberjack]

Sometimes I defend the right. Sometimes I criticize the right. That’s life in the middle.

[LawTalkingGuy]

People in the "middle" don't complain about the "obnoxious little black bitch" on a kids channel.

[Nige]

Being in the middle doesn't give your opinions the unearned authority or validity you seem to think it does.

[OtisAH]

I hope you’re sitting down because… seriously, steady yourself… you’re not a 65 year old libertarian. You’re a 65 year old contrarian. Your demographic isn’t John Galt and other such imaginary clowns (that’s good news!). It’s 18 year olds who are home for Christmas fresh off their first poli sci class (that’s bad news).

[grb]

bevis the lumberjack : "Sometimes I defend the right. Sometimes I criticize the right. That’s life in the middle"

As a technical point, that’s not how it works. Even if you sometimes criticize the right, that doesn’t automatically put you in the middle. After all, It may just signal a guilty conscience…..

[bevis the lumberjack]

Sure. When I was in favor of allowing gays to marry long before people like Obama and Hillary were it wasn’t because I believe in freedom. It was some sort of weird political guilt thing.

Same when I judged Trump to be a shameless dishonest huckster in the ‘80s. My guilt started young.

Or, you know, maybe your out of control zealotry just can’t allow you to accept the perspective of anyone who disagrees with you on anything. Or maybe all of your political positions are because of your guilty conscience. Maybe everyone on this board is working out a guilty conscience.

[grb]

Dude, given you have a single year on me, I’m in total awe of your grumpy-old-man get-off-my-yard shtick. I have so much to learn from you while I slowly devolve into a muttering cranky oldster…..

[Gandydancer]

Black kids are not being told by this commercial to be nice.
They are being told to be grievance-mongers.

[LawTalkingGuy]

The only people with grievances are the two people going on unhinged rants about this. Normal well-adjusted adults don’t do that.

[Gandydancer]

Self-awareness is not your thing, I see.

[OtisAH]

Regardless of them ignoring every other thing going on in Florida I have to believe at least *one* conspirator must have *something* to say about this (pleasenotjoshpleasenotjoshpleasenotjosh…).

[LawTalkingGuy]

It actually wouldn’t be crazy if he said something this time! He does teach property after all.

He Adler and Somin all teach property so we could get something. I assume Somin has some extensive thoughts on restrictive covenants.

[Ridgeway]

Personally, I am more curious whether Ned Racine was involved in the drafting.

[grb]

I think Ned is working for DeSantis. The Right's huckster politicians get only the best legal advice.

[Ridgeway]

Actually he is probably in his '70s by now. So assuming he kept his law license (and maybe even if he didn't), he is probably working for Trump on his classified document problems.

[grb]

Saw this comment elsewhere & deemed it worth stealing :

“Sorry Trump-Lite …… You must be 4 feet tall to enter this ride ……”

[Ben_]

That’s how leftists and government workers consider Americans.

When they intentionally make our lives worse, that’s their thought process.

[OtisAH]

“Man blames world for shitty life he made.”

[Ben_]

"Perpetrator blames victims of his own hateful conduct."

[Nige]

"Party of personal responsibility not responsibe."

[grb]

From the Babylon Bee :

Amid an escalating feud with Ron DeSantis, Disney dealt a devastating blow to the Governor by changing the requirements on all their attractions so that only people over 6 feet tall may enter.

“Come on, guys! I’m almost 6 feet! I’m, like, 5’10” at least! Look at my driver’s license!” DeSantis reportedly argued to a park cast member while attempting to board “It’s a Small World.” But witnesses claim they saw the employee tap a nearby sign to demonstrate that DeSantis was, in actuality, nowhere near tall enough …. According to sources, DeSantis went around to several different attractions before leaving the park, defeated. The final straw was being turned away from Dumbo the Flying Elephant, one of the more gentle rides in the park.

“You are welcome to return if accompanied by someone taller than 6 feet,” a member of guest services explained to the frustrated governor. At publishing time, DeSantis had introduced new legislation banning woke height requirements in Florida.

https://babylonbee.com/news/disney-punches-back-at-ron-desantis-by-changing-height-requirements-for-all-rides-to-6-feet

[Gandydancer]

That's labored.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

It isn't that surprising that the lawyers for Disney are far better and more sharp than the lawyers for Florida.

[Nelson]

It cracks me up that DeSantis was so busy taking victory laps that he didn't notice that his victory had become Pyrrhic.

Outmaneuvered and overmatched.

[Kleppe]

Wondering why we still haven't seen the Nashville school shooter's "manifesto." Is it too dangerous for the public to read what she wrote and interpret it for themselves? Only the authorities are competent enough to pick through it?

[Absaroka]

No idea on the why, but I hope they don't release it. Incentivizing mass shooters by publishing the screeds seems like a really bad idea.

Or at least delay releasing it for a year or something, so it won't get the intense publicity the shooters crave.

[Gandydancer]

We all know that that's not your concern at all, since it's so newly discovered.

[OtisAH]

It hasn’t even been four full days.

[Kleppe]

"It hasn’t even been four full days."

How many days do the cops need to scan the document?

We’ve already seen pictures and descriptions of the weapons the shooter used, we have multiple angles of her being killed by law enforcement from bodycam footage, etc. The authorities are seemingly falling over themselves to release all of this… but not the manifesto.

[OtisAH]

More than four full days apparently. Especially since we don’t even know what they have that’s been described as a manifesto. Or how much of it there is to review. Or anything else about it except the police claim there’s a manifesto.

Are you traveling abroad for the next year with no internet connection or satellite hookups and you really really really need to see whatever it is right now?

[Kleppe]

Did we need to see what guns were used?The gun control advocates are being served up meatballs

[OtisAH]

Your question was about why the “manifesto” has not been released. Just go up a couple posts for a refresher on the topic at hand.

[Gandydancer]

He's making a comparison. Think before you post and maybe we won't notice how dumb you are.

[OtisAH]

Wait, I get it! You think it’s double-plus unfair that Their Side gets a talking point while the homo-/transphobes have to rely on their imaginations and hateful existences for the time being. Well, that’s your legendarily far-left liberal law enforcement for you. Sorry, dude. On the plus, imagination and hateful existence is what’s sustained you all to now. You can make it.

[Kleppe]

There's no such thing as "fair". People are born blind. You have never seen me argue that something is "unfair".

I am acknowledging the reality that seemingly endless news hits are being foisted on the American public in support of gun control while information that may tend to suggest a different policy is being withheld, seemingly for no good reason.

[Sarcastr0]

I'm not talking about whether something is fair, I'm just acknowledging the reality that things are unfair.

[Kleppe]

Regardless of your reading comprehension and critical thinking ability, I am not talking about fairness. I'm talking about potentially reaching an erroneous and sweeping policy position as a consequence of incomplete information.

[Sarcastr0]

You're complaining about a double standard. Whether or not that's real, you're complaining that treatment by the media is not impartial or lacking in favoritism.

You best start believing in complaints that it's not fair...you're posting them!

[Gandydancer]

Objecting to bias in institutions not entitled to it is not a fairness complaint, it is a call to action.

[Kleppe]

"you’re complaining that treatment by the media is not impartial or lacking in favoritism"

I am objecting to decisions made by the police regarding what materials to release, and when. It is incomprhensible that you believe that equates to complaining about media bias.

[Gandydancer]

It's not incomprehensible. It's perfectly easy to see and comprehend that he is totally dishonest.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

You suggest that the media release info on the type of gun used in order to increase calls for gun control. This may or may not be true, but it has nothing to do with the perfectly valid reasons that exist for not releasing the shooter's manifesto, or not releasing it right after the shooting. If extremist psychopaths see that carrying out a shooting is an effective way to publicize their beliefs, what effect do you think that might have on the frequency of future events like this?

[OtisAH]

Yes, I have. Twice. Six hours ago and just now. It was just as silly both times, too.

[Kleppe]

"Are you traveling abroad for the next year with no internet connection or satellite hookups and you really really really need to see whatever it is right now?"

Are Democrats trying to outlaw my firearms now, or next year?

[Gandydancer]

They'll be trying to grab them next year too.

[Gandydancer]

Absaroka "I hope they don’t release it... Or at least delay releasing it for a year or something..."

Or past the next election, at least!

[not guilty]

Under Tennessee law, police investigative files become public records once the investigation is closed, but are not open for inspection while the investigation remains open, including during the pendency of criminal proceedings and any collateral challenges to any convictions. Tennessean v. Metropolitan Government of Nashville and Davidson County, 485 S.W.3d 857 (Tenn. 2016).

Here there will obviously be no criminal prosecution of the shooter, but the police may still be tying up loose ends.

[Kleppe]

Bodycam footage has already been released. The weapons used in the crime have been photographed and disclosed. We even know extensive details about the shooter's history with weapons (were they purchased legally, which weapons did she previously own, how were they disposed of, etc). For seemingly no reason, the police are unwilling to scan and release a handful of pages.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Under Tennessee law, police investigative files become public records once the investigation is closed, but are not open for inspection while the investigation remains open, including during the pendency of criminal proceedings and any collateral challenges to any convictions. Tennessean v. Metropolitan Government of Nashville and Davidson County, 485 S.W.3d 857 (Tenn. 2016).

Ah, that explains why we haven't seen any police bodycam footage yet. Oh, wait....

[not guilty]

Of course police in Tennessee have discretion to release information about an ongoing investigation. They are not required to do so.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Yes, and the original question was why the manifesto has not been released. Your response to that post did not address that question, as reinforced by your response to me. The policy in question does not restrain the Nashville PD from releasing anything.

[Gandydancer]

That they are not required to release the manifesto is no answer to criticism of them for withholding it.

But you know this. So why are you playing dumb?

[Frank Drackman]

Probably some "N-Words" in it, Trannies can be just as Race-ist as anyone.

[Michael P]

https://twitter.com/VPrasadMDMPH/status/1638909321072214018

4% of deaths, 0.04% of deaths -- what difference, at this point, does it make?

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

Eh...what are a couple orders of magnitude among friends?

[Jerry B.]

Good Sinfest today.

It's got an xyz domain name, so you have to search for "Sinfest".

[John F. Carr]

Good one. I had not heard of Sinfest and having looked at today's comic I'm a little surprised it hasn't been scrubbed from search engines. I see from the site's blog that Patreon has cut them off, presumably for political incorrectness.

[LawTalkingGuy]

Pretty wild that an unelected and otherwise unaccountable political hack in Fort Worth with a three year degree in reading casebooks from a fourth tier casebook reading institution gets to unilaterally decide massive amounts of American healthcare policy.

I mean of all possible governmental arrangements that’s got to be the dumbest one possible, right?

[Ridgeway]

Everybody hates decisions by "unelected and otherwise unaccountable political hack[s]" when they go the "wrong" way. And they love them when "wise jurists stand true to their principles" to correct wrong decisions made by other political hacks (elected or not).

As to the bigger question on nationwide injunctions, I do think Congress should step in to create a process for how they can be litigated and resolved. Right now, the procedure makes little sense, as the litigations operate like nationwide class actions with no procedure for certifying the class in the first place.

[LawTalkingGuy]

The problem is O'Connor always goes the wrong way on ACA. That's why they forum shop to him. He is a hack and he probably knows it too.

[bevis the lumberjack]

A lot of times you think something is “the wrong way” because you’re stuck on a one way street going in only one direction.

[LawTalkingGuy]

Or because he's not a good judge and gets the law wrong. His decision in California v. Texas was so bad Clarence Thomas didn't bite.

[Gandydancer]

Nobody is taking your word for anything. You have no objection to hacks when they're YOUR hacks, so give us a break.

[LawTalkingGuy]

K.

[Bob from Ohio]

"I mean of all possible governmental arrangements that’s got to be the dumbest one possible, right?"

Welcome to the opposition to Marbury v. Madison!

[Ben_]

We should let political agencies who refuse to obey their own rules do it instead!

[Noscitur a sociis]

Good point: federal judges should be elected, and they shouldn't ahve to go to law school.

[LawTalkingGuy]

I'm actually open to federal judges being elected. If they're going to exercise this massive amount of political power to negate the work of the elected branches they should be at least somewhat democratically accountable for their decisions too.

And judges should go to law school. But they also shouldn't expect a three-year degree in reading casebooks to give them some kind of supreme governing ability. I mean there is a reason they went to law school: it's easy and gives immediate access to power and prestige. Some humility would be nice, but I rarely see that from FedSoc darlings.

[Gandydancer]

Your humility is stunning, a lesson to us all.

[LawTalkingGuy]

I mean I don’t think I’m an expert on every topic under the Sun and I know that law school definitely wouldn’t make me one.

[James Alp]

Assume that the following statement, summarizing early American sentiment, is non-fallacious:
"Standing armies in peacetime being a never ending threat to human liberty, a well regulated militia shall be necessary to the security of a free state."
If a society decided, by an overwhelming democratic supermajority lasting multiple generations, to reject the premise of the above statement, what would become of the conclusion?
In 1833 Justice Story predicted that an unregulated militia would take its place, to the ruin of a free state and a free people. This is because only a well-regulated militia with a system of discipline can reliably defend liberty by suppressing armed insurrections, while an unregulated militia makes armed insurrection possible. Was he right or wrong?

[Gandydancer]

The first is a prediction, and absent a test of the claim any democratic rejection is neither here nor there.

Insurrections can of course be either just or unjust.

Story was wrong because the "because" in the last paragraph makes no sense. Why should the effect of a unregulated militia cause the well regulated militia to disappear, so long as it didn't?

Currently we have in effect no militia at all and while our state is not very free that's not obviously because of an unregulated militia.

[Ed Grinberg]

Insurrections can of course be either just or unjust.

For a statist, that's blasphemy!

[Michael Ejercito]

https://groups.google.com/g/Talk.Politics.Guns/c/7kqNLkJZoG8

Ingham County's Prosecutor has implemented another policy to
try to lessen the racial disparities in the criminal justice system.

This time, Prosecutor Carol Siemon is looking at the felony firearms
charge, which can be added whenever someone has a gun while committing a
felony, even if the gun is not used in the crime.

Siemon said she plans to limit the use of the charge, solely prosecuting
people on their actual behavior. This means her office will no longer
issue felony firearms charges except when "the other charges do not
adequately reflect the person's overall behavior," according to a news
release from Siemon.

Charging people with a felony firearms offense was supposed to dissuade
people from carrying guns, but "all it did was disproportionately impact
Black people," Siemon said.

"While this law was enacted in 1976 to deter gun violence, it has never
lived up to its promise of keeping the public safer," according to the
release.

"We applaud Prosecutor Carol Siemon's decision to limit the use of
charges under the mandatory minimum 'felony firearm' law," John Cooper,
director of Safe and Just Michigan, said in a statement. "Research shows
that mandatory minimums and the felony firearm law have failed to deter
the use or possession of firearms, and the racially disparate impact of
firearm charges is well documented."

This new policy is the latest of Siemon's reforms to address mass
incarceration and racial inequities in the justice system. She also said
she will stop charging gun and drug possession charges that stem from a
traffic stop for a non-public-safety-related reason and will have her
staff always review body camera footage before issuing resisting police
charges.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

"have her staff always review body camera footage before issuing resisting police charges."

This is a *new* policy?

[Noscitur a sociis]

The story Michael Ejercito posted is from 2021... so no, it's not a new policy.

[Gandydancer]

Was reviewing bodycam footage before charging resisting arrest a new policy in 2021? Had she really done her job THAT badly since 2015?

Anyway, I suppose she’s gone now since she was supposed to resign at the end of last year. Quite the loon, but Lansing reelected her, so they (or at leat most of those who voted) deserved her. And their Governor too.https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2022/11/23/ingham-county-prosecutor-carol-siemon-retires-end-2022/69674256007/

[Noscitur a sociis]

The liberal solution to gun violence: lots of new laws, with no consequences for violating them.

[Ben_]

"Charging people with a felony firearms offense was supposed to dissuade people from carrying guns, but 'all it did was disproportionately impact Black people’"

Yeah, no kidding. Congrats on the results of your gun laws, gun controllers.

The middle-aged white guy in the exurbs or on a farm — gun controllers hate him because he’s the wrong kind of person — isn’t going to be caught in their little web of gun laws because law enforcement is sparse out in the sticks.

[Brett Bellmore]

Also because he's not out robbing party stores. Charging people with felony firearms offenses disproportionately impacts black people only if you stupidly assume that blacks COMMIT felony offenses at the same rate as whites. And every statistic we have available says that's not so.

[Ed Grinberg]

https://vdare.com/posts/point-of-sale-gun-control-is-good-because-it-penalizes-whites-while-point-of-use-gun-control-is-bad-because-it-s-racist

[Kazinski]

The Washington State supreme court has approved a 7% capital gains tax that was passed by the legislature.

The reasoning they used was it was an excise tax on the transfer, not an income tax, which is forbidden by the Washington constitution.

I'm not too happy that the rather activist supreme court approved this. And I think noting in their opinion that white people own more property than BIPOC people undermined their legal reasoning. But I don't think the decision will stand for long because it effects home sales, and it won't be long before an initiative is proposed to reverse the decision and restore the longstanding constitutional understanding.

[Krayt]

I once wrote an AI system to help state tax analysts with audits, by adding analysis rules with pointers to various tax laws and opinions. I’ll never forget the best one:

“This is not an income tax. This is a tax proportional to income.”

Like assuming a 7 foot person is a male, presume politicians are self-serving, lying, distorting corruptions, until proven otherwise.

In both cases, you’ll be right 99% of the time.

[M L]

Anyone know French? Are protesters in France really chanting "Biden we don't your war?"

https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1639675376191393793

French voices rise in opposition to NATO today in Paris, but where is Western media? The sound of silence is deafening.

"Biden, we don't want your war!"

[John F. Carr]

The author replying to her tweet gives the following transcription, which sounds correct to me « Biden, ta guerre, on n’en veut pas! »

Word for word, “Biden, your war, one doesn’t want any.” In English it sounds awkward. In French that is a natural way to say “Biden, we don’t want your war.”

The use of “ta”, the familiar second person pronoun, may be a mark of disrespect. I do not understand all the rules of the tu/vous distinction.

[Krayt]

Another country that had a dictator role tanks through it, in living memory, getting upset at helping stop a repeat of the exact same thing, for the exact same reason (“We have to protect our ethnic nationals in that other place!”)

This sounds more like BS by strongman lickspittles sowing dissent. They like Neo-Hitler rolling the tanks for some reason.

"See? The French People don't like it, either!"

No. They didn't like it in WWII. Why would they change their minds, few lickspittle rabblerousers aside?

[M L]

I, too, can't wait to pay for another "forever war" on the other side of the globe. I salute you sir patriot.

https://reason.com/podcast/2023/02/21/did-biden-just-commit-america-to-another-forever-war-in-ukraine/

[Gandydancer]

False analogy, and a lazy one.

[M L]

NBC trolling, tapdancing on graves

Fear pervades Tennesee's trans community amid [slaughter of Christian schoolchildren]: "We were already fearing for our lives. Now, it's even worse."

https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1641032556718989315

[John F. Carr]

Media Calls For Moment Of Silence For Shooter Who Was Misgendered (Babylon Bee)

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

I think the best response was, "However much you hate journalists, it isn't nearly enough.""

[M L]

President of El Salvador promotes his country on Twitter: "Move to El Salvador, The New Land of the Free!" "No fentanyl crisis" "Lowest crime rate in the Americas"

I admit I never heard of this guy and thought this tweet was some kind of joke at first.

https://twitter.com/nayibbukele/status/1640168857800253441

[M L]

A recent clip from the TLC series shows Jeanette pressuring Jazz to dilate his “neovagina” every day. Jeanette says that if Jazz doesn’t do it, she will “wring [Jazz’s] neck.” Men who undergo a penile inversion vaginoplasty are expected to dilate the open wound for over two hours a day for up to two years post-surgery and for shorter periods of time for the rest of their lives. Otherwise, the wound can shrink.

Jeanette Jennings said she has woken up Jazz in the middle of the night and demanded that he dilate his “neovagina.” She said, “I have woken Jazz out of a dead sleep and taken the dilator and put the lubrication on it and said, ‘Here, you take this and you put it in your vagina, if not, I will.’”

https://spectator.org/does-jazz-jennings-regret-transitioning/

[M L]

Q: Should the mother be prosecuted for rape, if she follows through on her threat?

[Ben_]

Taking a cue from Obama, The Good Guys making up the current regime are sending IRS agents after enemies:

https://nypost.com/2023/03/29/white-house-silent-on-irs-visit-twitter-files-matt-taibbi/

Add IRS intimidation of journalists to the list of things endorsed by the blue team.

[David Nieporent]

The story is about as credible as anything else Taibbi writes.

[Ben_]

Agreed, no reason to doubt it at all.

Congrats on being on the team that uses the IRS to intimidate reporters.

[David Nieporent]

The IRS does not randomly make house calls, and if they did want to intimidate him, they would not have come when he wasn't even home. The story is nonsensical.

[M L]

So you think there was no IRS agent knocking on his door, and the whole thing is made up? Your grasp on reality is slipping.

[Ben_]

Maybe he's saying the IRS doesn’t exist. Or that there’s actually no definitive proof Tiabbi's house has a door.

[Gandydancer]

How can a grasp on reality which is nonexistent slip?

[David Nieporent]

Taibbi is a colorful and occasionally very funny writer. He is not a reliable one.

[Gandydancer]

Taibbi is a squish, but if you want to aver duplicity I'll need more than you describing him as "not reliable" to judge him that way. What are you alleging here?

[Sarcastr0]

Who knows what happened here, but assuming this melodramatic wanker of a man is being truthful, who knows why an IRS Agent did this?

The key is it's important to speculate.

[Ben_]

No matter what anyone on blue team does, Sarcastr0 will look the other way and make up nonsense to defend it.

[Sarcastr0]

No matter what unsupported bullshit you speculate yourself into believing about the left, I will push back.

Stick to the facts, you won't have a problem.

[Ben_]

The anything goes standard in action. Deny and obfuscate forever.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

Your sudden willingness to accept the credibility of a media account when it happens to agree with your narrative seems a tad bit hypocritical.

[Gandydancer]

Just a random visit from the IRS.
While Taibbi was testifying before congress.
We can assume of course that there's no cionnection.
It's not as if the IRS hasn't always been pure as the driven snow.
*cough*Lois Lerner*cough*
Nothing to see here.

[bernard11]

Are you serious? You believe this crap?

Taibbi said the IRS agent who visited his New Jersey home left a note instructing him to call the tax bureau four days later.

So he didn't even see the agent. And here's a clue. They don't go around asking you to call the IRS "four days later."

When he did, an IRS agent reportedly told him that his returns for 2018 and 2021 had been rejected due to identity theft concerns.

Oh, bullshit. Did he call he number on the note? Even assuming he talked to the IRS, which sounds pretty implausible, this version is silly.

It might be that the IRS suspected a phony return. That happened to a friend of mine who was hit with an absurd assessment when someone filed a fraudulent return using his SSN.

But no return was "rejected," and the IRS was actually quite cooperative in getting it straightened out.

[Brett Bellmore]

"And here’s a clue. They don’t go around asking you to call the IRS “four days later.”"

Certainly not when it's an actual issue with your taxes, no.

[Sarcastr0]

It was the perfect plan, till the reporter they were going after reported it!

[Brett Bellmore]

I'd assume they wanted it reported, to intimidate other people.

[Sarcastr0]

A well thought out scheme,,if you don’t understand people.

[David Nieporent]

A well thought out scheme,,if you don’t understand people.

Brett not understand people? That's unpossible!

[Brett Bellmore]

No, that's entirely possible, even likely. People are weird. But assuming it actually happened, that would be a reasonable motive.

[Sarcastr0]

So you think that this report from someone well followed on the right, will chill the right from...being outspoken?

Yeah, the right is well known to be cowed by such weak tactics, and not emboldened by their continual persecution complex.

[Gandydancer]

He filed his 2018 return 4 and a half years ago. And it was just “rejected” then. It was accepted.

As to what the IRS “does”, neither you nor your friend are testifying before Congress. So you have no idea what the IRS “does” if you are in the middle of providing testimony hostile to the regime. Contrary to the flack, there’s no law that says they can’t say he’s lying about an IRS agent leaving a note. It’s perfectly legal tio say what you claim: That they never do and didn't that. They haven’t.

That would be of course not remotely the same as revealing to others his tax information, which is what is forbidden.

[Kazinski]

Berlin's Net Zero by 2030 initiative failed miserably:
"Last Sunday’s “Berlin Climate Neutrality By 2030” referendum failed resoundingly despite the more than a million euros spent in a massive run-up campaign that included plastering the city with posters, concerts by famous performers, huge support and propaganda by the media and hefty donations coming from left wing activists from the east and west coasts of USA."
"Social Democrat Dario Schramm wept on Twitter at the gloating that would now come from the other side."
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/03/30/body-blow-to-activists-whopping-82-of-berlins-voters-refused-to-support-2030-climate-neutrality/

The number of yes votes did surpass the no votes, but:
"However, that result only met one requirement for a successful proposal. The second requirement, a turnout of at least 25 per cent of all eligible voters, was not met, the German news agency dpa reported.

Shortly before the end of the count, there were around 423,000 votes in favour and around 405,000 votes against. The quorum for a successful referendum would have been around 608,000 votes in favour of the proposal."
https://www.euronews.com/green/2023/03/27/berlin-votes-on-more-ambitious-climate-targets-can-it-catch-up-with-other-european-capital

[John F. Carr]

My town voted for a gas stove ban but still permits gasoline to be sold.

[Nelson]

I'm assuming that's sarcasm. Or maybe you live in the People's Republic of Vermont? I could see a Vermont town doing that.

[David Nieporent]

"It got majority support but not enough people voted" doesn't really seem to be accurately characterized by "failed miserably."

[Kazinski]

Well they seem to be miserable about their failure to pass it:
"Social Democrat Dario Schramm wept on Twitter at the gloating that would now come from the other side.”

They were 200k votes short of what they knew they needed to pass it, and couldn't get the turnout they needed in a municipal election.

[David Nieporent]

And? It didn't pass, and people may alternately be upset/happy about that, but "failed miserably" seems like a pretty bizarre characterization. Presumably those people would be equally upset/happy whether it missed by 200 votes or 200,000 votes.

[Frank Drackman]

Vermont in 2021 had 9 murders, not sure how many were with guns.

[apedad]

All but one of Vermont’s homicides in 2021 involved guns.

https://www.wcax.com/2021/12/31/vermont-sees-slight-decline-homicides-2021/

[Noscitur a sociis]

And?

[apedad]

I was just providing Frank's missing info about how many murders involved guns - no special comment.

Or maybe to show Frank that Google can be your friend sometimes.

[Ben_]

All these crimes are associated with people I’m bigoted against isn’t a great choice of argument.

[Gandydancer]

Not seeing that anyone said that, which is... puzzling. Can you point me to it?

But "All these crimes are associated disproportionately with certain demographics" is a perfectly fine observation, as long as it's true. The war against noticing has no normative claims.

[Ben_]

Gun controllers are bigoted against people who are not like them. That’s why gun controllers think nothing’s wrong with making otherwise entirely innocent people into criminals so they can sic law enforcement on them. You wouldn’t casually do that to people you had any empathy for.

[Gandydancer]

93% white.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

That's because Vermont has the strictest gun control laws in the U.S.

Oh, wait....

[apedad]

HA!

Just noticed this under the blog title.

What's on your mind? Humans only, please, no libelous AIs.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Hey Apedad, it's great to see you on the Open Thread today! I noticed that you found the "What's on your mind?" message under the blog title amusing. I think it's a clever way to encourage human discussion and prevent any potential issues with AI-generated content. As powerful as AI technology can be, it's always good to have a human touch and perspective in our conversations. Let's keep the conversation going and see what interesting insights we can share with each other today!

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

*golf clap*

[TwelveInchPianist]

If Prof. Volokh sees this, he might rethink his policy and insist on AI comments only.

[TwelveInchPianist]

A WSJ reporter was arrested in Russia. It looks like Putin learned from the Britney Griner episode that arresting Americans can lead to handsome rewards. I wonder what Biden will give him this time.

[Ben_]

Is he one of the special people?

[John F. Carr]

Three possibilities:

1. Innocent victim.
2. He got too curious for his own good.
3. He got too curious for his own good, on instructions from the US government.

I don't know which is true. Russia is de facto at war and the guy was in a sensitive place. Imagine somebody in the U.S. during wartime writing down all the plainly visible ship traffic going in and out of a port.

[OtisAH]

You should really just stop reading the news. Watching you struggle day after day is getting painful.

[TwelveInchPianist]

You're the guy that said that white people have earned the enmity of black people, right?

Why should anybody care what a filthy bigot like yourself thinks?

[OtisAH]

Yes, I (and Thomas Jefferson too, apparently) did say that. And I also said you have no right to be offended by it. Yet here we are, months later…

Pathetic. As. Always.

[Gandydancer]

He has at least as much right to be offended by it as the Karen bitch and black kid in the Disney infomercial discussed upthread. But the lefty morons think that's different.

[Ed Grinberg]

https://www.wsj.com/articles/woke-law-schools-could-bring-down-america-ilya-shapiro-dei-bureaucracy-stanford-supreme-court-rule-of-law-34c402c2

After Judge Duncan’s mobbing, Jenny Martinez, dean of Stanford Law School, issued a 10-page memo that strongly defended free speech and academic freedom, apologized to the judge and announced that Ms. Steinbach, the DEI associate dean, had been placed on administrative leave.
Mr. Shapiro would like to see more. He thinks universities need to enforce their policies against hecklers’ vetoes by disciplining those who violate them. Law schools can suspend students, even expel them in serious cases, and impose career consequences. “They can also report to a bar association,” Mr. Shapiro says. “All law schools have to sign off on a character and fitness assessment before a graduate can take the bar exam.” If a student has been “completely disruptive, and has demonstrated that he doesn’t have the character and fitness to be a lawyer, they can be adjudged not fit to sit for the bar exam”—with due process, including the right of appeal, of course.
Ms. Martinez did none of that. Her memo promised to institute “mandatory educational programming for our student body rather than referring specific students for disciplinary sanction” and to blur students’ faces when the university releases video of the event.

Not "referring specific students for disciplinary sanction" is bad enough. Promising "to blur students’ faces when the university releases video of the event" -- this is just absurd. You are not shielding the identify of a rape-victim. You're shielding the identity of thugs who intentionally disrupted a public event. Does she not see that by doing this she is encouraging such disruptions?!

[Brett Bellmore]

What makes you think she doesn't realize that?

[Gandydancer]

"“mandatory educational programming for our student body"

Because the victims of the disruption are just a much in need of struggle sessions as the perps.

[loki13]

I remember, a long time ago, when they had that case out of Connecticut about a person who was too smart to be a police officer. And I asked a friend who was a judge about it, and the judge agreed with the decision. The judge explained to me that you don't want really smart cops on patrol, because most policing is insanely boring, and if you have really smart people ... they'll start inventing things to do. Which is not good.

I was thinking about that in relation to the increased problems I've been seeing with the federal judiciary. Here's the thing- being a federal judge is awesome in a lot of ways, but the vast majority of the time it's not very ideological. You're handling a lot of basic stuff- from contract disputes to low-level immigration to stupid attorneys not understanding procedure. So when you have administrations appointing all of these ideologues into judicial positions, you start to get a whole tranche of young judges, looking at a LIFETIME of drudgery, wanting to spread their ideological oats, and realizing that most of their cases kind of suck.

And that's the problem. There's a reason that judicial temperament and ideologue are not synonyms. Yeah, the problems with forum shopping and judges like O'Connor or Hendrix is well-known, but those ideologues are getting to exercise their partisan muscles. Just as bad (if not worse) are those judges screwing up regular cases with no real partisan valence in order to prove some sort of point- something I'm seeing more and more of.

There used to be a vast difference in quality (and certainly assumed and perceived quality) between the federal judiciary and the state judiciary. Not so much anymore.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Mencken was complaining about the federal judiciary a hundred years ago. Of course, he had ideological reasons to be against them - he didn't like Prohibition enforcement. Your nonideological critique is much more persasive.

[OtisAH]

I’d have had follow up questions for your judge friend. Like:

Dumb cops who grew up having battery fights down at the railyard don’t get bored and start looking for things to do?

Wouldn’t a smart cop looking for things to do be more likely to seek out positive things to do than a dumb cop?

Isn’t one reason to prefer dumb cops is they won’t rise through the ranks as far as quickly as smart cops?

And isn’t the preference for dumb cops more because they’re more likely to do whatever they’re told and not because they’ll just sit in the patrol car drooling on themselves when nothing’s going on?

[Frank Drackman]

OK, you flunked out of the Fire Academy because you kept setting yourself on fire,
and you flunked out of the Police Academy because you couldn't figure out the Sam Browne Belt (Tricky, I know)
and you got grandfathered into that job shaving pubic hair off the cadavers at the County Morgue when your Uncle "Pulled some Strings"
what about that did I get wrong (nothing)
except you probably got fired from the Morgue job

Frank

[ThePublius]

My recollection of the reason the original judge ruled as he had was that he was persuaded that the smart guy would not be happy being a patrolman, any would be vying for the chief's job.

[Mr. Bumble]

Trans Day of Vengeance scheduled for April 1, 2023 (All Fool’s Day): Ironic or symbolic?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

THE VOLOKH CONSPIRACY

This white, male, right-wing
blog has operated for

TEN (10) DAYS

without publishing* a
vile racial slur and for

THREE (3) YEARS

without imposing**
partisan, hypocritical,
viewpoint-driven
censorship.

* so far as we are aware; we might have missed a few

** without imposing new partisan censorship; its earlier prohibitions on use of certain words to describe conservatives and its banning of a commenter for making fun of conservatives remain effective

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Several publications are reporting that Donald Trump has been indicted in New York.

In how many jurisdictions will Donald Trump be charged with crimes during 2023?

___ none ___ one ___ two ___ three ___ more than three

It also is being reported that Allen Weisselberg has dumped his Trump-funded lawyers. Did another law reach Weisselberg and depict the likelihood that Weisselberg, after concluding his current period of incarceration, would be prosecuted again if he does not testify truthfully and completely about Trump-related misconduct?

[MoreCurious]

1. New York: hush money (state).
2. Georgia: election interference (state).
3. District of Columbia: documents (federal).
4. District of Columbia: insurrection (federal).

[Life of Brian]

Apparently the focus group responded poorly to yesterday's "the grand jury is taking a month off, yo...." and Bragg had to snap-pivot. Not a shred of politics in sight!

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Once Trump said of he won again, for the third time, he would take down the Deep State, he became a dead man walking.

The Federals got away with murdering Kennedy, a coup against Nixon, and a color revolution against Trump. They can do whatever they want to us. No one will ever hold them account until people rise up French Revolution style against them.

[Nige]

'until people rise up French Revolution style against them.'

A Day Of Vengeance, you might say. With Destruction and Bloodshed.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

What do you think those little children did to that tranny that earned her vengeance?

[Nige]

Who said it was about vengeance for anything?

Let's hope Trump's rhetoric and his supporter's hysterics don't come with a body count. Again.

[Gandydancer]

If you're concerned about the body count convict Michael Byrd. There's no statute of limitations on first degree murder.

[Nige]

I'm not really concerned that the people screaming about a civil war will actually start one. They're cowards at heart.

[Gandydancer]

You just burp up really odd off-topic shit.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Once Trump said of he won again, for the third time, he would take down the Deep State,

Trump says a lot of things. Coming soon: "Guilty, your honor" or "not guilty, your honor."

[Frank Drackman]

Well Jerry Sandusky knows about "Guilty" verdicts

[Frank Drackman]

Jerry, you'll go blind if you keep self replying to umm, your "Self"

[not guilty]

An important step on the road to accountability for Donald Trump!! https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/03/30/nyregion/trump-indictment-news?campaign_id=190&emc=edit_ufn_20230330&instance_id=89037&nl=from-the-times&regi_id=59209117&segment_id=129183&te=1&user_id=86ac9094018f7140c62a54a4e93c075f It is high time. I can hardly wait to read the indictment.

[ThePublius]

...on a made-up supposed crime. Nice. The left shames itself once again.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Quit whining, clinger.

[Frank Drackman]

Quit molesting children, Child Molester

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

These are your fans, Volokh Conspirators.

And the reason you are destined to be disaffected old men sore from lifetimes of getting stomped by better Americans in the culture war.

[MoreCurious]

Don't go anywhere: the best (or worst) is yet to come.

[Mr. Bumble]

When this gets thrown out, will Bragg be sanctioned?

[not guilty]

On what theory would Bragg be sanctioned?

Rule 3.8(a) of the New York Rules of Professional Conduct provides that a prosecutor shall not institute, cause to be instituted or maintain a criminal charge when the prosecutor knows or it is obvious that the charge is not supported by probable cause. That is not a high threshold, and imposition of attorney discipline would require a separate proceeding with appropriate procedural safeguards.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

You don't think his twisting this from a misdemeanor to a felony and then going beyond the statute of limitations suggest any impropriety?

[not guilty]

That is unresponsive. I asked on what theory would Bragg be sanctioned, meaning (hypothetically assuming the throwing out of charges that Mr. Bumble posits,) what legal authority would support imposition of sanctions on a prosecuting attorney?

As for your suggestion of the statute of limitations as a bar, New York law provides that when the defendant is continuously outside of the state or the defendant's location is continuously unknown and cannot be determined. However, the period of limitation can never be extended by more than five years. https://www.findlaw.com/state/new-york-law/new-york-criminal-statute-of-limitations-laws.html Donald Trump has been a resident of Florida since September 2019.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

When was the alleged crime committed?

[not guilty]

The indictment is sealed, so we don't yet know what offenses and what supporting facts are alleged.

CBS News has a timeline of the potential antecedent events. https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/donald-trump-stormy-daniels-investigation-timeline-indictment/

[Mr. Bumble]

...and why would it be sealed?

[Life of Brian]

Probably the same reason they filed it after hours (which guarantees a clerk won't act on it to issue an arrest warrant, etc., until tomorrow), the very next day after announcing a 1-month grand jury hiatus. Almost enough procedural shenanigans to make you wonder if they're still writing it and just needed the headline.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Or maybe it is standard procedure.

Legal insights from guys who work the graveyard shift at the IT help desk, browsing FreeRepublic, 4chan, and the Volokh Conspiracy, are always a treat.

[not guilty]

I don't know specifically about New York, but an indictment is often left sealed until the accused is in custody.

[Life of Brian]

Or maybe it is standard procedure.

Or maybe monkeys will fly out your keister, Artie. You can put up or shut up on that one. And just to head off the inevitable, YouTube music videos don't count as evidence.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

To bigoted dumbass Life of Brian, who will spend the rest of his deplorable, disaffected life complying with the preferences of his betters:

Here is what seems a reasonable description of standard procedures. New York’s procedures seem to resemble those in my area.

As usual, clinger, your right-wing conspiracy theories and Republican delusions turn out to be unreliable. Keep those legal insights coming, though — always good to get the thoughts of a racist who works at a Ford parts counter in rural America.

And thanks for your continuing compliance, clinger.

[Life of Brian]

Aw, Artie — it’s so cute that the guy questioning my background proudly presents a newspaper article as proof of much of anything, particularly for procedures in US courts that (for now at least!) are actually written down rather than simply made up on the fly as needed.

That aside, I searched your hallowed source in vain for any discussion at all about filing indictments after hours, much less that it’s somehow “standard procedure.” Back to Google with ya.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

It has been reported that the district attorney today sought and received court approval to disclose the true bill's existence. How does that square with your bigoted right-wing conspiracy theories concerning feared departures from relevant standard procedures, clinger?

I look forward to pissing on the grave of your bigoted political aspirations upon your replacement.

[Life of Brian]

It has been reported that the district attorney today sought and received court approval to disclose the true bill’s existence. How does that square with your bigoted right-wing conspiracy theories concerning feared departures from relevant standard procedures, clinger?

There's nothing to square, since whatever you're babbling about (this time sans any source whatsoever) once again has nothing to do with filing after hours.

Since you're apparently bound and determined to ignore the first law of holes, keep digging.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

The reports say it's from a payment in 2016.

What's 2023 - 2016 in human years?

[not guilty]

The time period from Trump's relocation to Florida in September 2019 to present is subtracted from the limitation period, as is discussed above. The $420,000 in payments from Trump to Michael Cohen, falsely listed as legal fees, were made in multiple installments during the year 2017.

[Brett Bellmore]

The difficulty, (Who am I kidding? One of the difficulties.) will be establishing that Trump himself, rather than some flunky, so listed them. Or directed said flunky to so list them.

Also, only one of the payments was reimbursement for the hush money. The rest were for other purposes, such as a performance bonus. Gonna be hard establishing that paying your lawyer a performance bonus and calling it a legal expense is fraudulent bookkeeping.

According to CNN, it's more like 30 separate counts. It will be interesting to see how they ran the total up.

[David Nieporent]

Also, only one of the payments was reimbursement for the hush money. The rest were for other purposes, such as a performance bonus.

What is the factual basis for such a claim?

[Life of Brian]

What is the factual basis for such a claim?

Among other things, basic math? Stormy got $130k; the payments totaled $420k.

[Brett Bellmore]

I did give a link, didn't I?

"According to court filings in Cohen’s own federal prosecution, Trump Organization executives authorized payments to him totaling $420,000 to cover his original $130,000 payment and tax liabilities and reward him with a bonus. "

[Life of Brian]

[moved]

[Gandydancer]

"...when the defendant is continuously outside of the state or the defendant’s location is continuously unknown and cannot be determined."

You think this applies to Trump and New York, eh?

Neither does Bragg, which is why he is not charging Trump with that misdemeanor.

[Gandydancer]

Bragg knows and it IS obvious that the bogus charge he is inventing is not supported by probable cause, so you already know the answer to your question.

[not guilty]

"Bragg knows and it IS obvious that the bogus charge he is inventing is not supported by probable cause, so you already know the answer to your question."

How do you claim to know whether probable cause does or does not exist for charges in an indictment that has not yet been unsealed?

[Gandydancer]

Gee, how do I know that his ass isn't full of unobtanium if I haven't examined it?

[Frank Drackman]

I thought "45" was going to go full "Al Capone" Up Side Bragg's Haid' with a Louisville Slugger??

[not guilty]

deleted

[MoreCurious]

Deleted.

[Life of Brian]

No kidding. Wondered why I was seeing a bunch of dry, ponderous tax shit and nothing about Stormy!

[MoreCurious]

[Life of Brian]

I was looking at the indictment not guilty linked in his now-deleted comment above, in his eternal zeal to be the firstest with the mostest.

[EDITED TO ADD: Wow, sure is a lot of quiet editing of shoot-from-the-hip posts going on in these here parts!]

[not guilty]

Right. I posted too soon, and I am suitably embarrassed. Mea culpa.

[Ben_]

Walls closing in

[Nige]

Is Trump having a meltdown? Then they probab...

Nah, you're right, when ISN'T he having a massive meltdown about something or other.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

I hope the handcuffs are not too tight.

[Frank Drackman]

Well you've got the experience with Handcuffs Jerry (both ways, putting them on, and having them put on you)

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

This guy is your biggest fan, Prof. Volokh.

And the reason no one -- well, except for Prof. Bainbridge -- makes eye contact at faculty meetings.

I hope he brings treats you two can share in the clinger corner.

[Bored Lawyer]

What a remarkably stupid move by the DA. The case will have numerous legal problems, and at best will result in penny ante punishment. Trump is guilty of far worse, with far more solid legal and evidentiary support, than this cooked up goose.

[MoreCurious]

Nothing that happens in New York will stop the inevitable indictments coming in Georgia and the District of Columbia.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Yeah, but Ron DeSantis apparently thinks he can prevent law enforcement from apprehending Trump in Florida so . . . on with the show!

[Bored Lawyer]

Other than your imagination, what makes you think that DeSantis thinks that?
No to mention that Trump's counsel has already stated he will voluntarily appear, in which case what the governor of Florida thinks is irrelevant.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

DeSantis' twitter comment.

[MoreCurious]

He issued a statement saying so.

[Bored Lawyer]

Didn't say they would. This is still a stupid move.

Expect multiple motions to dismiss, some of which may have merit. I give it about 50/50. Suppose a NY Supreme Court justice dismisses the indictment with no trial. Don't you think the DA will look like an utter jackass?

[not guilty]

We are in the dark until the indictment is unsealed, but what potential theories do you surmise could support a dismissal with no trial, Bored Lawyer?

[Bored Lawyer]

First thing I would look at is statute of limitations. This is basically a misdemeanor with a 2-year SOL. Yes, I know they think they can stretch it to a felony, but sounds contrived. If a judge thinks the leap to felony is flawed, that could be the end of the whole case.

[not guilty]

How would a judge determine prior to trial whether falsifying business records was done with the intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal another crime (which would elevate the offense to a felony)? It seems to me that questions of the accused's specific intent are uniquely for a jury's determination.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

I sense Bored Lawyer will be Surprised Lawyer. Maybe Shocked Lawyer. And Wrong Lawyer.

[Brett Bellmore]

I think it's a bit premature to talk about that until the indictment is unsealed; Who knows what novel legal theories Bragg came up with?

[Frank Drackman]

Bragg's facial pubic hair should be indicted for "Impersonation of Grady Sanford"

[not guilty]

Facial pubic hair?

And BTW, the character's name was Grady Wilson.

[Frank Drackman]

yes, Facial and Scalp Pubic Hair, the punch line to the old joke "How do we know God hates N-words?" (He put pubic hair on their heads)
and I knew Grady's last name, I was just testing to see if anyone noticed (you passed!) remember the episode where Lamont (did I get that right?) went "African" buying some African artifacts, a Dashiki, and dating a Nigerian "Sister'?? even took a Swahili name "Kalundah" (Fred pronounced it "Calendar")

[Ben_]

"Don’t you think the DA will look like an utter jackass?"

The worse it looks, the more Dems will treat him like a hero.

[Moderation4ever]

Well right now it the former President who is looking like the jackass. The threats, especially the baseball bat all look pretty bad. It likely Trump will scare off as much support as he gains.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Let's hope that baseball bat stunt keeps Trump in handcuffs for a few hours longer than might otherwise have occurred.

[not guilty]

I doubt that will be a factor. It is relevant to a bail determination, but no trial court judge is likely to deny bail here on a low grade felony.

[David Nieporent]

It would be amusing if he made Trump wear an ankle monitor. (No, that won't happen either.)

[Nige]

There was a Qanon fad at one point for claiming Hilary Clinton and a host of other politicians and celebrities were secretly under arrest and wearing ankle monitors that you could make out through folds and bulges of their clothing. So everyone could *claim* to see one on him, just for fun.

[David Nieporent]

To be fair, these sorts of things aren't limited to QAnon. I remember similar sorts of conspiracy theories on the left about Bush wearing a secret device during presidential debates to transmit ideas to him.

[Brett Bellmore]

Was that supposed to be an ankle monitor? I thought they were saying it was a high tech exoskeleton to enable her to walk despite a crippling stroke.

To tell the truth, I don't even try to keep those Qanon things straight, I mostly just ignore them.

Personally I think it looks like a back brace. I wore one for a while after fracturing one of my vertebrae, to keep the pressure off it while it healed.

[Nige]

That was a wild ten minutes.

[Frank Drackman]

From incompetent Spooks, seriously folks (HT Sleepy J), Fannie Jackson is a punch line for anyone who knows anything about Atlanta.

[not guilty]

"The case will have numerous legal problems, and at best will result in penny ante punishment. Trump is guilty of far worse, with far more solid legal and evidentiary support, than this cooked up goose."

For the most part, I agree. Trump's misconduct in Georgia and his federal crimes are more serious and more easily proven compared to New York. I suspect that the New York prosecution is mostly a sideshow which is unlikely to result in a sentence of confinement.

That having been said, there is something to be said for schadenfreude in seeing Trump held accountable anywhere. As I am fond of quoting Grouch Marx, time wounds all heels.

[Brett Bellmore]

"For the most part, I agree. Trump’s misconduct in Georgia and his federal crimes are more serious and more easily proven compared to New York."

You might reflect on the fact that the people in a position to actually prosecute him for those alleged crimes don't appear to share your confidence.

[not guilty]

How do you claim to know what prosecutors in D.C. and/or Atlanta think, Brett? Please show your work.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

To Brett's disaffected, bigoted, autistic, partisan, no-legal-experience eye, the months of conduct of that Georgia prosecutor and special grand jury have 'we have decided not to do anything about Trump' written all over it.

[not guilty]

Still waiting, Brett.

[grb]

As I recall, Brett’s theory is this : Trump’s multi-pronged effort to steal Georgia’s election from the voters can’t be a crime. Per Brett, Trump honestly thought he deserved bonus votes which launders all criminality from his efforts. But given that, shouldn’t Trump have produced a consistent reason for that belief? Isn’t it problematic he peddled different justifications with each new performance before a fresh audience? And what about his “reasons” that were disproved a dozen times over, often to his face?

I don’t recall Brett ever dealing with those problems about his theory.

[Brett Bellmore]

I'd get a neurological exam if I were you, your memory is going. No theft, he just asked for access to examine the voting records.

You seem to think that by putting sneer quotes around 'find' you can prove he meant to manufacture votes instead. Interesting theory.

[Sarcastr0]

Why did he give the exact number of votes he needed?

[Brett Bellmore]

You're hanging your hat on that?

[Sarcastr0]

It certainly blows up your foolish speculation.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

How's the hunt for Obama's Kenyan birth certificate coming along, Brett?

Trump seems likely to be occupied with (three or four) other pressing matters for a couple of years, so you might be searching without his help for a while.

[grb]

Brett Bellmore : I’d get a neurological exam if I were you, your memory is going.

You first, because you damn well gave precisely the above excuse for Trump on more than one occasion. But the confusion is easily explained:

1. You peddle an awful lot of bullshit in this forum & can’t remember it all.

2. You carpet bomb Trump’s failings with multiple excuses, and this is just a secondary bomb run.

[MoreCurious]

Aren't you allowing your wishful thinking to cloud your ability to analyze reality?

[Moderation4ever]

While the direct punishment here maybe penny ante, the overall cost could be much more substantial. First the former President is having a meltdown and scaring off as much support as he might gain. If his supporter riot, it will feed into the narrative for a January 6th indictment. The alleged behavior with Daniels and McDougal will feed into some of the civil lawsuits he faces. Going into future indictments he could have a conviction recorded. Now we all know that previous behavior should not prejudice a future case, but we all know that is exactly what happens.

[Gandydancer]

Whereas the embarrassing result for Bragg's case won't undermine the others? (Which are jokes already, so there's that.)

The wishful thinking is strong in you.

[hoppy025]

Alvin Bragg is a retarded jogger. In a better time, people like him wouldn't be serving as prosecutors, but would be swinging around in a jungle eating bananas.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

This blog’s target audience loves the steady stream of bigotry. Is that worth the loss of respect from the Conspirators’ children for their parents?

So far, the evidence from those with administrative privileges points toward yes.

[Kazinski]

Anybody who thinks Trump has committed real crimes should be livid about this indictment.

After years of investigation at the Local, State, and Federal level the only thing they can come up with is mischaracterizing a payment to a former mistress?

And to do so they have to ignore the statute of limitations, then rely on a fictional federal crime that motivated federal prosecutors decided they couldn't prosecute.

Honestly I'm surprised Trump was so clean that it took this much time and effort to come up with this nothing of a crime after pouring through his business and tax records and with the enthusiastic cooperation of Trump's former personal attorney.

It must be terribly embarrassing.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

You are going to enjoy the third or fourth arrest of Trump this year!

[Sarcastr0]

I’m a bit skeptical myself.

But Indictments are not a conserved quantity.

[Kazinski]

Indictments should be conserved:

Justice Jackson:
"If the prosecutor is obliged to choose his cases, it follows that he can choose his defendants. Therein is the most dangerous power of the prosecutor: that he will pick people that he thinks he should get, rather than pick cases that need to be prosecuted."
https://reformclub.blogspot.com/2023/03/something-no-one-is-talking-about-today.html?m=1

[Sarcastr0]

Not a very smooth transition from is to ought.

[Nige]

Maybe they are. His supporters love his impunity and apparent immunity, everybody else not so much. He's the poster boy for white-collar criminals careening about the place doing damage, making dodgy money, and getting away with relative slaps on the wrist because other people like him have rigged the system. You think that's attractive to most voters? You have to have abandoned every moral principal you once claimed to have to have this guy as your Messiah. He may have done worse, but the arguments that there are crimes too small for certain people to be prosecuted for is actually kind of breathtakingly awful in and of itself.

[Gandydancer]

The "crime" isn't "too small". It's nonexistent.

[Nige]

They'll have a tough time charging him, so and his lawyers will have a field day.

[Aunt Teefah]

"Now, we're getting them [criminals] out anyway, but we'd like to get them out a lot faster, and when you see these towns and when you see these thugs being thrown into the back of a paddy wagon, you just see them thrown in, rough, I said, please don't be too nice. Like when you guys put somebody in the car and you're protecting their head, you know, the way you put their hand over, like, don't hit their head and they've just killed somebody. Don't hit their head. I said, you can take the hand away, okay?"

- Donald J. Trump

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Trump in handcuffs -- probably not solid gold handcuffs -- may be enough to drive a few of these antisocial clingers over the edge.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Let's hope so.

If the mentally ill trannies can have a Day of Vengeance, why can't Normals?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Bigotry and conservative thought are no longer normal in America . . . they are the dying, inconsequential flickers of irrelevance and obsolescence.

[Nige]

Every Day Is "Normals'" Day Of Vengeance Day.

[Frank Drackman]

Well fortunately Jerry, Jerry Sandusky, you're safely confined in https://www.cor.pa.gov/Facilities/StatePrisons/Pages/Greene.aspx
and with your "Alpha Bu-fu-ing Male" Personality probably running whatever Cell Block you're on.
Hey, I get it Jerry, you were intimidating in your prime, how else could a doughy Middle aged male have sex with underage men? and just because you're 79 doesn't mean you couldn't kick my 60 year old ass (and then fuck it immediately after)
Guess S-S-S-S-S-tuttering John Fetterman is still getting the "Cukoo's Nest" treatment, no progress on your Commutation??

Frank

[Mr. Bumble]

"What's on your mind? Humans only, please, no libelous AIs."

Will captcha be required next?

[Brett Bellmore]

That could be entertaining.

[LawTalkingGuy]

Bragg and O’Connor have robbed us of several more days of awesome restrictive covenant discourse.

[Bored Lawyer]

I am so disappointed. Nothing gets the juices flowing like property law. Fee simple and all that.

[Ben_]

Democrat crime watch:

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/catherinesalgado/2023/03/29/james-okeefe-uncovers-possible-lucrative-money-laundering-scheme-for-dems-n1682689

FEC documents show thousands of fraudulent "donations" to Democrats.

"Carolyn Lenz, in Tucson, Ariz., told OMG that she “absolutely [did] not” donate over 18,000 times for $170,000+ to ActBlue. She looked at the data showing “she” donated multiple times a day, often in $5 to $15 increments, and insisted that the donations were not hers. “They must be” fraudulent, Lenz said."

[BravoCharlieDelta]

They are gonna say he deceptively edited the video and then ignore and forget all about it.

Remember when he got those people ballot harvesting for that Sonali Sister-Wife?

[Ben_]

They barely even bother with that anymore. They’re edging closer and closer to of course Democrats commit crimes as part of their standard practice, so what?

What are you going to do about it, fill out a ballot? They’ve got unlimited ballots already filled out, ready for any occasion.

[Life of Brian]

They’re edging closer and closer to of course Democrats commit crimes as part of their standard practice, so what?

Well, I mean, the righties are all mean to them and stuff, so what else are they supposed to do? Would you rather they pick up guns and just start mowing them down? That IS an option, don'tcha know....

[Ben_]

Would any Dems condemn it? Young children were murdered in Tennessee on Monday and Dems and the news media are using it as an opportunity to push victimization narratives for the killer.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

20% of Americans believe the Federal Government is the greatest threat to their freedom and safety.

What happens when that reaches 51%

[grb]

Per Gallup, polling Americans :

Astrology can predict peoples lives: 25%
Ghosts come back from the dead : 32%
People can communicate with the dead : 21%

It’s a great country, but definitely has its share of freaks & fools. Therefore you’ll always have company, BravoCharlieDelta, but shouldn’t look for anything more than the 20-30% expected for flat-earth science, faked moon landing, & right-wing claptrap.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/16915/three-four-americans-believe-paranormal.aspx

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

In a nation whose population is improving inexorably (thanks, in large part, to replacement of elderly conservatives) and becoming less religious, less rural, less bigoted, less backward, and more diverse, the number of anti-government right-wing cranks seems unlikely to hold steady, let alone increase.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

How many of those checkboxes do those millions of illegals replacing us tick off?

[Frank Drackman]

Actually the Asians/ (Real) Africans/Hispanics/Europeans hate niggers more than the native Whites, they have to deal with them on a day to day basis, (Seriously, I interact with "Afro-Amuricans" when 1: I order at a Fast Food Restaurant, and they usually fuck it up, 2: Rent a Car at an Airport Rental Car counter, and they usually fuck it up, 3: Check my luggage at an Airport Check in, and they usually fuck it up, 4: Fly on an Airline and, oh yeah, that's almost never a nigger, because they would fuck it up (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Air_Flight_3591)

Frank

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Fly on an Airline and, oh yeah, that’s almost never a nigger, because they would fuck it up

Your core audience love it, Volokh Conspirators, but others have reached the point at which the bigotry at your blog (and vile racial slurs in particular, egged on by the proprietor) supports an inference that those who operate this blog are bigoted or, at least and without exception, bigot-friendly and bigot-curious.

A decent person would have distanced from this by now. Yet not a peep from one of you. Paltry cowards and hypocrites across the board . . . or bigots.

Congratulations, I guess. You seem to have wanted this.

[hoppy025]

Their 85 IQs don't lend themselves to civilization.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Does a single Conspirator have the courage or character to say anything about the overt bigotry that permeates their blog?

Cowards.

How do you explain this to your children?

'Don't worry, dad isn't really a racist. Or a gay-hater either, or immigrant-basher, or any of the rest of it. It's just . . . sometimes I have to hold my tongue because . . . well, it's complicated. Someday you'll understand.'

'I told you not to read the blog. And that's the end of this discussion.'

'We side with the racists in this house. But you probably want to keep that to yourself at school, for now, because of all the wokesters in those classrooms.'

[MoreCurious]

I think the Conspirators pretend to not read the comments, Plausible deniability is always an effective defense.

[grb]

I wonder is what hollow shell of a person gets off on this shit? Because you can bet the two trolls above don't walk around in real life spewing this trash. It's only here they have their "special moment" talking braindead racist filth. What kind of person takes pleasure in something so sordid, empty & cheap?

[Sarcastr0]

I feel like BCD is for real. The other guy is clearly not.

[David Nieporent]

Kirkland, you mean?

[Frank Drackman]

a round of applause for Social Critic Jerry Sandusky Ladies and Gentleman!!!

[apedad]

"What happens when that reaches 51%?"

Um....they go vote for change?

Run for political office themselves?

Use the First Amendment to push through amendments restricting the federal govt?

[Aunt Teefah]

Absolutely abysmal past 2 days for Miss Florida, Meatball Ron. First he gets totally owned by Disney’s lawyers, and now Trump gets to play martyr for the GOP primary hogs. Dude’s cooked.

[Frank Drackman]

At least Ron will be alive on Election day 2024, unlike Senescent Joe (no Threat, just Actuarial Stats)

[hoppy025]

It'll be reversed in the Florida court system. They didn't have the authority to do what they did, and they know it.

[grb]

My money's on Disney's lawyers.....

[Mr. Bumble]

Fortunately for you, you're not putting up any money.

[grb]

Aunt Teefah : “Absolutely abysmal past 2 days…..”

1. You left out Michelangelo’s David from the past week. I think DeSantis inherited a little of that fiasco, fair or not. I also think the school board head, Barney Bishop III, was quick & eager with the principal’s firing to lay a head at R.D. door – like a cat who leaves mice and birds at your feet. Note : Like the cat, BBIII was too damn stupid to realize his master wants no part of the gift.

2. Wouldn’t it be hilarious if DeSantis prostituted himself with all his tawdry gimmicks & pathetic stunts – sold his soul dirt cheap to play to the Trumpish base – and then flamed out completely. That would be failure on the scale of tragic opera.

3. And political malpractice as well. Last primary season it was Elizabeth Warren who was so monstrously stupid she tried to beat Sanders from the Left. All she had to do is set up just to the middle of Bernie and she could have picked off his supporters. Now here’s something similar with DeSantis’ sleazy efforts to out-Trump Trump.

4. The real risk is from someone like Youngkin, but I’m not worried. Today’s Right is interested in entertainment, not substance, policies or even winning elections. Politics is just another consumer-choice viewing-pleasure to them. They want cartoon theatrics, firework thrills, and pro-wrestling grade spectacles.

[M L]

There was a couple of insurrections today in Tennessee and Kentucky, but nobody noticed.

[Jason Cavanaugh]

Thank god you’re here to represent stupidity for everyone.

[Brett Bellmore]

What's your complaint? He's right. There were a couple "insurrections" yesterday, by the same definition that claims Jan. 6th was one: People violently breaking into a legislative chamber to stop the operation of the legislature.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pro-trans-kentucky-protesters-arrested-swarming-state-capitol-house-vote-override-beshears-veto

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11921273/Gun-control-activists-storm-Tennessee-State-Capitol-fears-left-wing-uprising-loom.html

[Nige]

‘by the same definition that claims Jan. 6th was one:’

Lol whataboutism and nothing but. Fact of the matter is Jan 6th happened and was indefensible, griping about it being called an insurrection is a deflection because you and all the rest feel the people involved ought to be immune from consequences.

[Brett Bellmore]

Look, we're just trying to get one standard here, instead of two: If it's an 'insurrection' when Republicans do it, it damned well is an 'insurrection' when Democrats do it, too.

The whole reason for calling January 6th an 'insurrection' was to have an excuse to invoke Section 3 of the 14th amendment, remember. So that Democratic elections officials in some states would have an excuse to keep targeted Republicans, not limited to Trump, off the ballot.

Well, what's sauce for the goose, Nige. If these sorts of events are 'insurrections' there are a hell of a lot of Democrats out there who are disqualified from holding any federal office. If they're not, then you can't disqualify Republicans, either.

[Sarcastr0]

No, you are deflecting. Because insurrection is kinda okay to you because you are just that partisan.

You have never condemned Jan 06 so it’s not hard to see.

Section 3 was never close toco,in go to play. But persecution is a decent place to take refuge when you come out as anti democracy.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

It's interesting to note how neither of you really explain the difference.

[Nige]

The difference is two substantive real issues versus a whopping big lie told by a crook people were apparently willing to die and ruin their lives for. No wonder you prefer to get mad about nomenclature.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

So it's not insurrection if it's for things you agree with, but it is insurrection when you don't.

What a stupid moronic belief to hold.

[Nige]

No, it's an inusrrection if you're trying to overthrow an election result and install your preferred leader. If you disrupt some proceedings, it's just criminal trespass.

[Brett Bellmore]

You do know that "insurrection" isn't that narrowly defined in the law books, right? Just stopping the legislature from conducting business was enough to qualify under the law. It doesn't matter what the business they were out to stop was.

Charged with criminal trespass, the same charge most of the January 6th defendants were hit with.

And if I were you, I'd wait on the video before declaring a lack of violence...

[Nige]

Trying to overthrow an election and install your preferred leader is an insurrection. Interrupting proceedings is not. I've no problem characterising everyone who took part in Jan 6th as insurrectionists, charged with it or not. Trying to do the same here is just childish.

[Brett Bellmore]

"You have never condemned Jan 06 so it’s not hard to see."

You're hallucinating again. I not only condemned the actual crimes, I said I thought Babbit's death amounted to suicide by cop, that I'd have expected to have been shot if I'd been doing the same thing.

What I refused to do was pretend that Trump had in any meaningful sense directed those crimes, or that everybody who walked into the Capitol that day was complicit.

[Sarcastr0]

The actual crimes, that you minimize every chance you get.

And right after you defend Trump as not just not guilty, but not at fault, maybe pivot to how the Courts maybe stole 2020!

Oh, and there's all the deflections. Every time Jan 06 comes up, you wanna talk about some other drama.

Like I said, you are not hiding it well, except maybe from yourself.

[Brett Bellmore]

"And right after you defend Trump as not just not guilty, but not at fault,"

Yeah, because he's not guilty. Did you somehow miss the Proud Boys trial, where it was established that the break in was pre-planned on their part? (Well, on the FBI's part, anyway...) And where no evidence AT ALL was presented that Trump had ordered it?

Did you somehow miss that the pre-planned break in began part way through Trump's speech, and thus couldn't have been incited by it? That apparently fake bombs were planted the day before to be reported at a key moment to distract Capitol Police?

We actually have legal standards in this country for how involved in a crime you have to be to be guilty of the crime, and Trump doesn't come anywhere NEAR meeting those standards. Not even in the same county as them. I think you understand that, so you pivoted to "at fault", a much more vague concept.

Is he "at fault"? Well, I've already said that he should have stopped his challenges to the election outcome when the EC voted, so I think he was acting wrongfully at that point. But as I've remarked before, at this standard of 'at fault', a remarkable number of Democrats are 'at fault' for the riots that caused billions of dollars of property damage and dozens of deaths.

But you'll call that 'deflecting', because an absolute principle in your world is that nothing can EVER be put in context, that your own double standard is never, EVER to be pointed out.

[Nige]

Some context: Trump and his supporters at a recent rally stood and placed their hands on their hearts while a song about Jan 6th played and large screen showed scenes from that day. I think he might be owning it.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Sarcastr0 only gives a shit about tone-policing the Others, bootlicking, and gaslighting.

[Gandydancer]

Babbit’s death was murder, pure and simple.

What she or you should "expect" is neither here nor there. I wouldn't have done what she did, and I expect US law enforcement to get away with breaking the law, but that the law of self defense was broken is obvious.

[Brett Bellmore]

I agree that she shouldn't have been shot, I simply assert that, as a factual matter, she should have expected to be shot. You simply don't go through a door, especially when you're already someplace you shouldn't be, with a cop on the other side telling you to stop. That's simple prudence.

[Gandydancer]

The fact that what she did was stupid doesn't mean that killing her falls under the self-defense exception.

"shouldn’t have been shot" is a pretty weaselly way of saying "she was murdered". If you don't think she was murdered please say why.

There were of course THREE cops with guns standing on the landing and a 5 or 6 member SWAT team with ARs on the stairs on her side of the barrier. None of THEM felt the need to shoot her.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Not Ashli Babbitt. Not anymore.

Carry on, clingers.

Well, not you, Ashli.

[M L]

"I thought Babbit’s death amounted to suicide by cop . . . I’d have expected to have been shot if I’d been doing the same thing."

Seriously? I'd have expected to be arrested and met with proportional force. Not shot dead as an unarmed, trespassing public protester. Of course not discounting some non-zero chance of the latter, the former would be far more justified and likely.

[Sarcastr0]

I’d have expected to be arrested and met with proportional force

Have you ever met the police?

[Brett Bellmore]

To be fair, I HAVE met the police, and I've never been shot. OTOH, I've never come through a door with a police officer on the other side holding a gun and ordering me to stop, in the middle of a riot. Which is the whole reason I think it isn't (objectively, not normatively!) shocking that she got shot. Prudent people don't provoke folks who can get away with shooting them.

I have been at at least one political rally where the police were keeping track of us through rifle scopes from overlooking buildings, though. That, too, was by the (state) Capitol. I think maybe the police are more on edge when they see themselves as defending the government, not just the citizenry.

[M L]

Have I ever met the police? What kind of question is that? I know many police officers and see them regularly in the community. Your comment is obviously the comment of a terminally online dweeb.

[Gandydancer]

"Have you ever met the police?"

George Floyd had met the police. They'd even shot him.

Have you? Did they shoot you? Why not?

[Brett Bellmore]

I suppose one has to distinguish between normative and positive expectations. I'm not terribly impressed with the restraint of police under pressure, so as an empirical matter I would have expected to have been shot.

I would, of course, have been very pleasantly surprised if my expectations had been too pessimistic.

[M L]

“I’m not terribly impressed with the restraint of police under pressure, so as an empirical matter I would have expected to have been shot.”

I can understand the sentiment but what data do you have for evaluating this “as an empirical matter”?

Is it from watching all the videos from the cases where somebody was killed by the police, while being aware of roughly none of the everyday occurrences where things didn’t end terribly? There must be a term for this – availability bias?

[David Nieporent]

She was arrested with proportionate force. She was not "trespassing." She was at the head of a mob attack on a protected area from which retreat by the guards was not an option. Yes, if this were a public street, she'd probably (and hopefully) have been met with water cannons, tear gas, so-called "less lethal" ammunition like beanbags, and the like, rather than gunfire. But those weren't viable options in that particular situation.

[Nige]

Nah, you're just trying to erase distinctions between this kind of protest, around substantive issues, and the astonishingly awful motivations and execution of Jan 6th. It's purely rhetorical and political, too, the fact that there are legal distinctions is just an invonvenience and a way of performing outrage at the supposed unfairness.

[Brett Bellmore]

Ah, that's about the response I expected: "Sure, we did the same thing, but in our case it was in a good cause, so it was OK!"

[Sarcastr0]

Nige said motivation *and* execution, Brett. So even ignoring the issue at hand wasn't overturning our form of government, you're still strawmanning.

[Gandydancer]

The "execution" was different in any relevant way how?

[Nige]

Nobody died, nobody injured, that I can see, no reports of criminal damage, nobody arrested for assault, so far, just criminal trespass, nobody claiming they were insurrections except Jan 6th fanboys, anything else?

[BravoCharlieDelta]

You people are still lying about J6 deaths. The only deaths were at the hands of murderous Democrat cops.

[Brett Bellmore]

OK, so nobody died. Happily for YOUR guys, the police weren't trigger happy.

Other than that, I'm not seeing any relevant difference, except you think your guys broke in and interrupted the legislative session in a "good" cause.

[Nige]

Nobody got shot or hurt because they weren’t violent, so, actually, yeah, well done ‘my’ guys, and they are both inherently better causes than believing Trump’s lies, which is a dogshit cause. Interrupting a legislative session by itself doesn’t amount to insurrection. They’ll be charged for any crimes they committed, not ones you demand they be charged with because you’re still mad Jan 6th failed.

[Gandydancer]

"Nobody got shot or hurt because they weren’t violent,"

Do you have any evidence that Ashli Babbit was violent? Or even any testimony that she was violent?

[Nige]

No, I said those are the things you don't want to talk about.

[David Nieporent]

Look, we’re just trying to get one standard here, instead of two: If it’s an ‘insurrection’ when Republicans do it, it damned well is an ‘insurrection’ when Democrats do it, too.

What’s the “it,” Brett? Neither of those stories say anything about windows being smashed in to get to legislators fleeing in fear of their lives, and neither of them say anything about the people trying to overthrow the government and install an unelected person.

[Brett Bellmore]

Nobody was trying to overthrow the government in DC that day, so far as I know. In the states yesterday people DID break in to stop the legislature from conducting business. Unlawfully using force in the process.

I know that it's famously the superpower of lawyers to distinguish the indistinguishable, but don't be ridiculous here.

[David Nieporent]

Nobody was trying to overthrow the government in DC that day,

Don't be ridiculous here.

[M L]

"Mom, I can't do my chores today, we're going down to the capitol to overthrow the most powerful government in the history of the world. No, we're not bringing any weapons, just some funny hats and our smartphones to post on TikTok."

[Nige]

That's exactly what they were trying to do.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

You are a bigoted, disaffected, autistic, antisocial, worthless clinger, Brett Bellmore. An apt representative of Republicans from America's deplorable backwaters.

And the precise target audience of the Volokh Conspiracy.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

People who get guided, escorted tours of the White House don't usually spend years in prison for it.

[Brett Bellmore]

At least they released him early without explanation when the video surfaced. SOMEBODY in the system has a sense of shame, apparently.

[Nige]

Either that or his being moved to a halfway house was unocnnected to the video, but it's there to embroider into your version of reality.

[Gandydancer]

Ah, yes, the "it was just a coincidence (you should be gullible all the time because I say so)" defense.

[Nige]

Well all you have to do to prove it wasn't a conicidence, the video having been out for, what, month or two now, is show an actual connection. Also, have you checked whether his move was scheduled and when? I've no idea, but if I was muttering about coincidences it's the first thing I'd check.

[Gandydancer]

Tucker interviewed the “Shaman’s” lawyers when he broadcast the videos which, no, was not “[a] month or two [ago] now”, more like a week or so ago. And Shumer et al condemned Tucker for releasing the videos to the public AT THAT TIME, so I don’t know how you could think that it came out way before then. The lawyers had no clue about any release. The more recent one was trying to w/d the plea agreed to by the first. But then he WAS released, I gather. Just “already scheduled”, eh? You’re a pathetic as well as shameless liar,

[Nige]

Carlson aired the footage at the beginning of March. Time flies, huh?

So... you still haven't bothered to check if the release was scheduled, have you?

[Gandydancer]

You lie. I said his lawyers didn’t know of any release a few days after Tucker showed the video. That indeed counts as “check[ing] if the release was scheduled”, subject to contrary evidence. YOU are inventing the “scheduled” bit in the teeth of that evidence, so what have YOU got to back up your fantasy other than you-wish-it-were-true?

[Nige]

Guided escorted tours don't usually come with a casualty list and a body count.

[Brett Bellmore]

I'm curious: How many casualties and how big a body count do you think the buffalo hat guy racked up? Because by all the accounts I've seen, it would have been zero for both.

[Nige]

I'm curious, are you denying there was a casualty list and a body count?

[Brett Bellmore]

No, I'm denying that he had anything to do with them. He didn't assault anybody, he didn't shoot any of his fellow protesters, so the police's body count and police and protesters' casualty list are irrelevant to his particular case.

[Nige]

That's okay, I didn't say he had anything to do with them, other than being part of the same mob, and since he hasn't been charged with assault, literally nobody is claiming they are relevant.

[Brett Bellmore]

Then why keep bringing them up when we discuss him?

[Nige]

I was discussing the fact that a Guided Tour that had a casualty list and a body count can hardly be characterised as a Guided Tour, you keep talking about that one guy, I think you think the Guided Tour reference is just about him, when in fact it was a reference to the entire mob, and you brought that guy up, nobody else because, I dunno, you like his horns.

[Sarcastr0]

This wasn't a tour, Brett. No one thought it was a tour.

You're not the dumbass BCD is, don't act like it.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Are there any videos that you know of showing Capitol Police letting people in and walking around with them?

[Nige]

Were there people hurt outside and inside and one person killed? Such that letting people in was an effort at crowd control and de-escalation, especially since parts of the mob had broken in elsewhere?

[BravoCharlieDelta]

The guided tours were their de-escalation plan?

lmao you fkn bootlickers are unreal

[Nige]

Yeah, they saw all these irate Trump supporters on a rampage and figured that might calm them down. People still died and got injured, though.

[Gandydancer]

That's what the videos show. And he wasn't charged with inflicting any casualties or deaths. But, hey, maybe pigs fly when we're not looking at them.

[Nige]

So nobody was charged wth assault? That woman didn't die trying to break into a barricaded room?

[Brett Bellmore]

Are you having trouble with the idea that we're discussing what a particular person did, not what other people did?

[Nige]

No, we were discussing whether a 'guided tour' with a casualty list and a body count can still be accurately termed a 'guided tour.' If have a point about an individual, you still haven't managed to make it.

[Brett Bellmore]

So you ARE having trouble understanding that different people did different things, and we're discussing an idiot that the Capitol police were seen on video giving a tour, NOT some different idiot who broke in and acted violently.

[Gandydancer]

The only thing he’s having trouble with is that he has trouble recognizing when the jig is up and he’s been completely exposed as a shameless liar and it’s time to quit digging and go somewhere where he hasn't completely fouled himself in public,

[Nige]

‘we’re discussing an idiot’

I was discussing all the idiots, you homed in on one idiot, to demonstrate the startling fact that different idiots did different things and were convicted on different charges, which is hardly a concept that needed so much passionate argumentation but you seem to find earthshaking.

‘The only thing he’s having trouble with’

Oh, you were bowled over by that revelation, too? God love ye.

[Gandydancer]

Brett: “How many casualties and how big a body count do you think THE BUFFALKO HAT GUY racked up? Because by all the accounts I’ve seen, it would have been zero for both.” Me: : “That’s what the videos show.” You (reply to ME): “So nobody was charged wth assault?” Brett: “Are you having trouble with the idea that we’re discussing what a particular person did, not what other people did?” You: “No, we were discussing whether a ‘guided tour’ with a casualty list and a body count can still be accurately termed a ‘guided tour.’

No, WE weren’t. The guy who got the guided tour and who inflicted no casualties is called Angeli, and WE (Brett and I) were discussing HIM. YOU had already been dismissed as a loon.

[M L]

"Lol whataboutism and nothing but. "

Nige we are talking about March 30 2023 here, not January 6 2021. You are the one whataboutting.

[not guilty]

"There were a couple 'insurrections' yesterday, by the same definition that claims Jan. 6th was one: People violently breaking into a legislative chamber to stop the operation of the legislature."

I'm not so sure the two situations are comparable. If the protestors in Nashville remained in the Capitol after being told to leave, that is likely criminal trespass -- a Class C misdemeanor per Tennessee Code Annotated § 39-14-405. I don't see how the incursion into the Capitol did or was intended to stop operation of the General Assembly.

https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-did-transgender-community-storm-tennessee-capitol-1791626

[Martinned]

Here is an interesting Twitter thread summarising an even more interesting Financial Times article comparing US and UK health outcomes. https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1641799627128143873

[BravoCharlieDelta]

So poor people on Socialized healthcare in the US die sooner than poor people on Socialized healthcare in the UK?

[M L]

It would be more interesting if they controlled for, or showed the impact of additional variables beyond "income."

[Gandydancer]

Martinned wants you to draw the conclusion that British socialized medicine is superior to the American variety and that we should imitate it, but that doesn't follow.

[Mr. Bumble]

The thread that refuses to die.
Are we doomed to another day of Nige's BS?

[Sarcastr0]

You're welcome to your money back.

[Gandydancer]

He didn't bother asking whether we're doomed to yours.

[M L]

So it looks like libs are going to try and put Trump in jail for paying for an NDA after having an affair?

I get that this is the karmic echo of the GOP trying to impeach Clinton, just seems like a rather dramatic step up, those pendulums are swinging harder and harder.

[Nige]

[Gandydancer]

Clinton brazenly lied under oath. ("I did not have sex with that woman, Monica Lewinsky"? Or was that just to the cameras?)

Trump tried to make an "illegal" "campaign contribution" to himself a misdemeanor, even if accurately charged (probably not) now long past its sell-by date.

Karma? Did Trump even endorse impeaching Clinton?

[Nige]

Here we go:

https://twitter.com/KyleClark/status/1641665493005221890

‘Loveland’s Resurrection Christian School is closing school Friday claiming without evidence that law enforcement warned the school of an LGBTQ rampage targeting Christians in Colorado. Loveland PD + the Larimer County Sheriff’s Office say there’s no such threat’

[Gandydancer]

The Loveland PD and the Larimer County Sheriff’s Office do not, of course, exhaust the list of "law enforcement" entities and individuals. How "woke" are those two, btw?

[BravoCharlieDelta]

When they are around people like you, yes.

[Gandydancer]

I made a factual observation not dependent on my degree of concern. But I don't expect a lefty to understand the distinction.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

You're an ignorant bootlicker.

[Nige]

BCD thinks kids ought to be shot the proper way, by whte cis males.

[Mr. Bumble]

Is there a common thread with most mass shooters (other than being male)?

[Brett Bellmore]

Most human beings haven't been trans, so how likely would it be that most mass murderers would be?

[Mr. Bumble]

Just because you are paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.

[Nige]

Guns.

[Kleppe]

Got a non flippant idea?

[Gandydancer]

Queenie: "The lizard people don’t want it released, duh."

Yeah, I think of gun grabbers that way too.

[Krayt]

Sure, but saying “children”, as in "Oh my god think of the children!" brings to mind 8 year olds.

This is rhetoric if the deaths are older-teen weighted, as they engage in criminal activity. We need to expose rhetoric.

I hasten to add I am assuming that ratio for the sake of argument.

Like saying “most deaths of children are car accidents”, but it turns out to be older teens with a license driving like maniacs with newfound power and freedom.

It’s fundamentally dishonest, and knowingly dishonest.

[Mr. Bumble]

I thought per the ACA the cut off was age 26. Putting aside sarc ans snark the problem with these stats is the different definitions of children. Most exclude age 0-1 and count 19 year olds.
Changing either one gives different results.

[Brett Bellmore]

And the study went up to 19.

We see this all the time, gun controllers deliberately lumping together people old enough to vote and kindergardeners, to pretend that urban gang members dying in drive bys are innocent little tykes.

In fact, most of them were 18 or 19. Old enough to vote, legally adults.

Interestingly enough, while blacks have a higher murder rate than whites for every age, the disparity really jumps dramatically once they're old enough to join gangs. And then drops back down again by middle age, when they'd mostly have quit the gangs.

So, you're probably talking 'kids' old enough to vote who are involved in urban gangs, for the most part.

[Gandydancer]

9 year olds are children. Some 17 y/o gang banger is just/already a thug.

[Nige]

This is stupid. They're still kids.

[ThePublius]

18 and 19 year olds are not kids. Nor are 17 year olds - all of whom can join the service and carry weapons and fight and die for their country.

[hoppy025]

They're not kids. If you have a constitutional right to shoot off in their rears if they "consent," then they're adults.

[Ben_]

How many more dead before you stop joking about it?

[Mr. Bumble]

Hmm. Equating glasses with chop-a-dick-off-me and add-a dick to-me along with a lifetime of drugs and medical care is quite a jump.

[Sarcastr0]

That wasn’t just a joke, it was a good point that your whole causal chain is built on an incorrect axiom that proves way too much.

Getting high-handed that no one takes your unsourced bullshit seriously is not going to make anyone take you more seriously.

[Ben_]

How many more dead before you stop playing your own rhetorical games?

[Nige]

Yes they bloody are. The older you get the more kid-like you realise kids at that age are.

[Brett Bellmore]

I'm 64, 30 year olds look kid-like to me. Doesn't mean they ARE kids.

[Gandydancer]

What is the leading cause of death of 9 y/o? Or 10 y/o? Or pick your early age. We can argue about when young people stop being “kids” or “look like kids” later. I’m plenty old, but I still know the difference between those and criminal “youths”.

Give it a break and stop trying to mislead.

[Nige]

I think you should stop trying to scoff at appalling statistics as if it's somehow ok for kids to get killed by guns if they're nearer to twenty than to ten.

[Gandydancer]

The scoffing at death is only being done by the voices in your head.

But, sure, there's a lot of "kids" by your definition who would contribute a lot to the well being of the rest of us if they died. Facts are facts even if you don't like them.

Obviously you prefer conflation, but you're not getting away with it, so give it a rest.

[Nige]

'Facts are facts even if you don’t like them.'

That was an opinion, though. A bloodthirsty one. Scoffing would be better.

[Nige]

They're still kids, killed by guns.

[Sarcastr0]

fighting nature and biology was a mistake from the beginning.
This remains a very dumb take which as noted argues the existence of glasses a moral monstrosity, regardless of how self righteously you flounce about.

[Ben_]

^ Rhetorical games

[Nige]

Your homophobia comes first, we know.

[Kleppe]

I haven't speculated anywhere on this thread.

[TwelveInchPianist]

Huh? I'm not sure what the conservative gripe is, or who gets to say what the conservative gripe is. My gripe was made clear plenty of times on this site, however.

[TwelveInchPianist]

No.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

That may be true for the bot's other beliefs (don't know; don't care), but this is not a good example of conspiracy theorising.

Let's see the manifesto.

[Gandydancer]

When evidence is being hidden it's hard to determine what the facts really are, but trying to figure out what they are from the bits and pieces that leak out isn't being a "conspiracy nut". It's just using your intelligence.

But of course little YOU assert or believe can survive intelligent examination, so of course you want that ability to go unexercised.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Your average Volokh Conspiracy fan.

[ObviouslyNotSpam]

Because suicide is not a crime?

[Gandydancer]

Because what the tranny bitch did to the 9 y/o's is a subject worth counting separately. Nobody is objecting to your arguing that suicides and 19 y/o's gun deaths are irrelevant in any discussion of death from guns but we ARE objecting to conflation.

[Nige]

Then you might start drifting into overall mortality rates for various age groups, and things might start getting really grim.

[Sarcastr0]

Dude comes out against something as broad as 'fighting nature and biology' there's plenty of ground there.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Do you know how threaded commenting systems work?

[grb]

Why not? Jefferson makes for an interesting case study. Most importantly, he was a damn good architect. Not just a gentleman builder or respectable amateur, but someone capable of imaginative architectural concepts realized in built form. In the two very different houses he built for himself, or the social construct of his Virginia State Capitol (based on a Roman temple in Nîmes) or the almost diagram-purity of his UVA campus, the man was audacious in his architectural ambition.

That said, he was also extremely self-indulgent. He loved buying pricy books, wine and artworks, and I sympathize. He loved perpetually pulling down & rebuilding his houses, and I understand. He loved the genial life of an aristocrat and I get it (if I squint just a bit). But that all took money and Jefferson only had human property. He also made a solemn vow to his dying wife he’d never remarry (a selfish demand on her part IMO), so that left him with the slave half-sister of his dead wife.

So a man who’d shown he fully understood the moral rot of slavery in his youth exploited slaves in every way throughout his life. And did so because he was unwilling to deny himself personal pleasures. By the time he was old, this usage was so habitual he railed against any limitations on the “Peculiar Institution”. Upon his death, his children were deep in debt and only a handful of slaves given freedom. Jefferson knew the guilt of slavery lived full in his life.

[Kleppe]

In what world is a rhetorical question "speculating"?

[Gandydancer]

That's not a speculation since he is implicitly saying it is not so.

But, yeah, you can't help being an embarrassment to yourself whenever you type..

[Brett Bellmore]

No, they're not kids. They're 'kids', yes, those are sneer quotes, it's an outright lie to call them children.

They're young adults old enough to enlist in the military, old enough to vote, old enough to knock over liquor stores and get shot by rival gangs.

Have you ever looked at the statistics for the criminal records of homicide victims? Most homicides in this country are criminals killing criminals. Arguably they help winnow out the criminal population.

[Frank Drackman]

Your average Jerry Sandusky

[Purple Martin]

Yes, seems an appropriate landing spot for James O'Keefe, doesn't it.

[Krayt]

And to include it is another rhetorical distortion. The goal is to build in the mind shooters are running around slaughtering 6 year olds minding their own business. Including suicides helps with that deception, as does older teens engaged in criminal activity.

Now both of those are problems to work on, but they are not rando shooters running around shooting 6 year olds, the goal of the rhetorical imaging.

[Gandydancer]

Do you have any excuse for that reaction to a very reasonable question?

[Gandydancer]

Zero.

When was the last time a mass shooter was a woman?

That seems pretty special.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_massacres_by_death_toll

[Nige]

Most humans haven’t been mass murderers at all, but it is easier when you can get hold of lots of high-powered weaponry.

[Gandydancer]

The legal age of consent in the US varies from 16 to 18. Their SCOTUS-approved right to engage in buggery is presumably the same, more or less.

Give an honest answer as to the leading cause of death for 9 y/o like those killed by the tranny bitch and stop trying to conflate things that are different.

[Gandydancer]

The objection is fully justified.

[Gandydancer]

Polarization is a good thing. If you don't recognize the shits for what they are how are you going to beat them before they beat you?

[Gandydancer]

Reading comprehension: FAIL

~”Why this PARTICULAR info and not the rest?” is his question.

But, yeah, you can’t help being an embarrassment to yourself whenever you type, since it’s always grotesquely partisan nonsense at a level to be expected from a room temperature IQ.

[David Nieporent]

I mean, in every world. Unless your contention is that you know for a fact that this is the reason. In which case it wouldn't be speculating so much as lying.

[OtisAH]

Because this PARTICULAR information shows the police efficiently and quickly putting down the shooter and makes them look good, dummy.

[Nige]

You do get that there are no circumstances in which its okay for people to get shot, right? Even self-defence shootings are awful and truamatic. And the distinction between young people and old, though arbitrary, does have distinct boundaries, and one of those boundaries is between 19 and 20, right? And 'it's okay to get killed by guns above a certain age' may sound tough and practical in your head, but it's actually sociopathic?

[Nelson]

They aren't wrong about the designation. Yes, we have a problem that no other country on earth does. But 18- and 19-year-olds aren't children.

We have already had 176 people killed in mass shootings, as of today. There is very little chance that the EU will have that many for the entire year, depite having 115 million more people. That is tragedy enough.

Arguing minutae like if a child is under 17 (yes, that is what a child is in the US) or under 19 (nope) is missing the point. More people are killed in the US with firearms than any other developed nation. Every single year. Isn't that bad enough?

[Nige]

Ultmately, you guys kinda love the gun violence, don't you? Gives a vicarious thrill and a glow of moral rightousness informed by the mythologising of the Wild West, kick-ass action heroes and NRA marketing.

[Gandydancer]

As I( said when you posted this upthread, polarization (i.e., reacting with great disgust to you and your ilk) is good.

You doubt the IRS visited Taibbi on what grounds?
I don't know of any obligation on their part to not deny it if it is untrue. Have they?

[Gandydancer]

YOU are of course being dishonest in not specifying what part of Taibbi's story story we are supposed to disbelieve (and on what grounds) so that you can always deny that you were saying that all the things that are proved true were what you were talking about.

[Gandydancer]

The problem is that YOU think it still even tough it's been a while since "your country" didn't include any black citizens.

[Gandydancer]

The Sally Hemmings claim isn't substantiated.

[Gandydancer]

He was wrong to pay what he did for Griner, but if he was going to pay that much he ought to have gotten Whelan instead.

You wouldn't think a brain could be so tiny as to not grasp this, but there you are, pinhead.

[TwelveInchPianist]

To the extent that people were advocating that we make Russia better off for having held Whelan, yes, they were wrong.

[Life of Brian]

Yup. There's also a slice of accidental gun deaths that should come off for the same reasons. At a glance that would probably knock off another percentage point or so -- the filters in that viewer are fairly archaic so to properly weed out subgroups like that you have to do the math by hand. In any event, the above numbers seemed close enough to confirm the game.

[Gandydancer]

Reading comprehension: FAIL again.

I offered no “hot take”, merely pointed out that damikec wasn’t taking account of the fact that the tranny bitch's prior relationship with the school pointed to other possibilities than his suggestion.

The “maybe” is entirely accurate because I made no assertion, but the possibility I raised is indeed possible..

But you’re too stupid to realize when you’re embarrassing yourself.

[Gandydancer]

I am neither wrong nor disingenuous and you have not even attempted to demonstrate any basis for for your lies about that.

[Gandydancer]

I'm fine with my homophobia. Fags are disgusting. They ALSO punch well above their weight when it comes to being dangerous to children. Your abhorrence for noticing this doesn't change that fact.

[Gandydancer]

I wrote, “Rolling debt over into higher rate instruments absolutely increases the carrying cost of the debt.” So X would appear to be “carrying cost” and your sentence becomes: “Something that increases carrying cost might not be the same as carrying cost”. Which exactly no one has claimed, so the only thing you’ve proved is that you are a moron.

[Gandydancer]

It doesn't matter how easy it is for me if I'm not one.

[Gandydancer]

You keep imagining things but their connection to reality is less than tenuous. And the ad hom that leaks out isn't even relevant.

[Gandydancer]

Let's start with you answering the question.

[Nige]

Why slice off suicides? Don't. A gun death's a gun death.

[Gandydancer]

I'm not "slic[ing] off suicides". I'm separating out 9 y/o in order to see how much lying you are engaging it. Naturally you are resisting exposure,

[Nige]

All I have to go on are your words and actions. Doesn't take much imagination at all.

[Gandydancer]

Naturally the fact that your imagination is lurid is lost on you.

[Nige]

Don't give up on your dreams.

[Gandydancer]

You're projecting again.

[Nige]

I don't they they punch as hard as pastors, preachers, Republican officals, catholic priests, sports coaches and fathers.

[Kleppe]

Speculating = "I bet the reason for this is..." or "This probably happened because". I did not speculate. I asked a rhetorical question designed to persuade the audience to my position, i.e., that the police should release the manifesto and there is no good reason that they haven't.

[Kleppe]

And the copious information on the shooter's history of firearms ownership and transactions?

[Gandydancer]

You seem to have lost the thread, dummy. The front line police look good, but the "handful of pages" is obviously not showing them looking good since those pages are still being withheld.

[Gandydancer]

The first three words in your sentence are true.

The last word in your sentence is particularly weird.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

There is a very valid and obvious reason for not releasing a mass shooter's manifesto, no speculation is required.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

Unless, of course, there is another reason for those pages being withheld, that being that the shooter not receive the benefit of having her beliefs publicized through her heinous actions. Dummy.

[Alpheus W Drinkwater]

Ha ha wow! So anything anyone says about IRS actions must be true if the IRS doesn't deny it? Okay then.