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Adnan Syed's Conviction Reinstated to Protect Crime Victims' Rights
The Appellate Court of Maryland rules that the rights of the victim's family must be respected in any process that could vacate Mr. Syed's conviction—an important precedent that crime victims' rights are enforceable.
Yesterday the Appellate Court of Maryland enforced crime victims' rights in a high-profile case involving Adnan Syed, the subject of the "Serial" podcast. In a 2-1 decision, that Court ruled that the trial court needed to respect the rights of Young Lee, brother of Hae Min Lee (the victim), to have been notified of and to have attended a hearing last September when the trial judge vacated Mr. Syed's conviction for murdering Ms. Lee. This decision is an important milestone, signaling that crime victims' rights are becoming an enforceable part of our nation's criminal justice architecture.
Most readers are aware of the "Serial" podcast, which cast doubt on the reliability of Mr. Syed's convictions in 2000 for (among other things) the 1999 murder of 17-year-old Hae Min Lee. In 2003, the Maryland Court of Special Appeals affirmed his conviction. In 2010, Mr. Syed filed a petition for for post-conviction release, arguing ineffective assistance of counsel. Ultimately, after extended evidentiary and other hearings, the Maryland Court of Appeals affirmed Mr. Syed's conviction. The U.S. Supreme Court denied certioari. At the time, Maryland Attorney General Brian Frosh responded to news of the high court's decision by saying the evidence linking Mr. Syed to Ms. Lee's death was "overwhelming."
Then, several years later, in September 2022, Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby filed a motion to vacate Mr. Syed's convictions under Maryland's vacatur statute. The motion argued that prosecutors had failed to disclose evidence to the defendant that other suspects might have been responsible for the murder. That motion was questioned by many observers, who noted that Mosby acted precipitously as she was about to face trial on federal fraud and perjury charges. (The federal charges against Mosby remain pending; recently her defense attorneys were permitted to withdraw from the case after being accused of violating court rules.) The judge who presided over Mr. Syed's trial also provided an affidavit stating that substantial evidence supported Mr. Syed's conviction. But because the State was moving to set aside Mr. Syed's convictions--and Mr. Syed obvious agreed—it was not clear who was defending the conviction. After a hearing, the Circuit Court for Baltimore City granted the motion.
Ms. Lee's brother, Young Lee, appealed the vacatur, arguing that he (a crime victim's representative) had not been given adequate notice of the vacatur hearing or a meaningful opportunity to be heard on the merits of the vacatur motion. The prosecutor had provided only one business day's notice, via email, to Mr. Lee. Mr. Lee, through counsel, requested a postponement of seven days so that he could arrange to take leave from work and fly from California to be present in the courtroom. The trial court denied the requested postponement but permitted him to give a statement on Zoom—with only thirty minutes to prepare. The Appellate Court concluded this was not adequate notice:
Clearly, notice to a victim in California that there would be a hearing in Baltimore a minute later would not be sufficient to comply with the statutory objectives, a point which Mr. Syed's counsel conceded, appropriately, at oral argument. Similarly, the State's notice here, an email [on Friday] one business day before the hearing on Monday, September 19, 2022, was not sufficient to reasonably allow Mr. Lee, who lived in California, to attend the proceedings, as was his right.
The inadequate notice also interfered with Mr. Lee's right to attend the proceeding, even though he was allowed to participate via Zoom:
We hold that in the circumstance where, as here, a crime victim or victim's representative conveys to the court a desire to attend a vacatur hearing in person, all other individuals involved in the case are permitted to attend in person, and there are no compelling reasons that require the victim to appear remotely, a court requiring the victim to attend the hearing remotely violates the victim's right to attend the proceeding. Allowing a victim entitled to attend a court proceeding to attend in person, when the victim makes that request and all other persons involved in the hearing appear in person, is consistent with the constitutional requirement that victims be treated with dignity and respect.
The Court then considered the appropriate remedy for these violations of crime victims' rights.
It could be argued that setting the vacatur aside and holding a new hearing where victims' rights were respected would violate Mr. Syed's double jeopardy rights. The Court made short work of that potential argument, explaining that
Ordering a new vacatur hearing would not result in a second prosecution after conviction or acquittal. The result of a new vacatur hearing will be to either reinstate the initial conviction or vacate it again. There would not be a second prosecution.
The Appellate Court noted that, against the backdrop of proven violations of Maryland's victims' rights statute, it had "the power and obligation to remedy that injury." Accordingly, the Court set aside trial court's order vacating Mr. Syed's convictions and remanded "for a new, legally compliant, transparent hearing on the motion to vacate, where Mr. Lee is given notice of the hearing that is sufficient to allow him to attend in person, evidence supporting the motion to vacate is presented, and the court states its reasons in support of the decision."
While the Appellate Court generally supported victims' rights, one part of the decision held that that a victim does not have a right to be heard a vacatur hearing. This conclusion is difficult to square with the language of the Maryland Victims' Rights Amendment, which gives crime victims the state constitutional right "to be heard at a criminal justice proceeding"—which a vacatur hearing would seem to be. But this part of the Appellate Court's decision may have limited practical importance. The Appellate Court noted that while a victim may lack a "right to be heard, there are valid reasons to allow a victim that right in a vacatur hearing, and the court has discretion to permit a victim to address the court regarding the impact the court's decision will have on the victim and/or the victim's family."
The conclusion that a victim should be heard at a vacatur hearing where no one is defending the judgment of conviction is well supported by (for example) the U.S. Supreme Court's practice of appointing an advocate to defend the judgment below when both parties decline to do so. For example, in 2000, Chief Justice Rehnquist appointed me to argue in defense of the Fourth Circuit's decision that 18 U.S.C. section 3501 superseded the Miranda requirements, after the Clinton Administration Justice Department declined to defend the federal statute. In another case, the Supreme Court has explained that this approach permits it to "decide the case satisfied that the relevant issues have been fully aired."
The Appellate Court declined to formally appoint Mr. Lee to defend the conviction. But if he is permitted to speak—as the Court suggests that "valid reasons" support—then he will be able to provide relevant information on this subject.
Yesterday's Maryland Appellate Court ruling is important because it signals that in Maryland (and, presumably, in many other states with similar laws) crime victims' rights must be respected and will be respected. For the last several decades, the crime victims' rights movement has evolved from working to create crime victims' rights to making those rights enforceable. I know my friends in the crime victims' rights movement in Maryland (some of whom are working on this case) have made that a top priority.
Crime victims face many challenges in enforcing their rights. Among the most significant are obtaining legal counsel and "standing" in court to advance their arguments. Here, Mr. Lee had legal counsel and was allowed to be heard regarding his rights. That result should be broadly applauded, as a process in which crime victims are heard is one that will produce outcomes that are more broadly accepted by the public—regardless of whether that outcome goes in favor of or against the victim.
Enforcing Mr. Lee's rights as a victim representative does not take away any rights from Mr. Syed. The Court stayed enforcement of its ruling for 60 days, which should provide ample time for a new hearing—during which time Mr. Syed is released. It appears that Mr. Syed plans to appeal to the Maryland Supreme Court, so his rights will continue to be reviewed. And if ultimately a new hearing is held, that hearing will be one where both Mr. Syed's and victims' rights are respected.
If the nation is going to adopt crime victims' rights—as all fifty states have done to some degree—those rights should be enforceable. It would add insult to criminal injury to extend victims only paper promises. The Appellate Court of Maryland's decision wisely and properly took crime victims' rights seriously and enforced them.
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What do you expect from a shit eating dem city with a shit eating State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby who was facing charges for eating shit on the job.
This is a good argument against "crime victim's rights."
Why? It seems like a better argument against excluding crime victims.
I remember a legislative committee discussing a bill about parole hearings. The sense of the committee was that parole hearings should be about the victim and not about the prisoner. I think the sentencing hearing should be the last time the victim gets to speak to the justice system.
Why?
Victim testimony is not relevant to parole decisions. Nothing has changed since the judge set the parole eligibility date. A person's release on parole should not depend on whether the victim's family still lives in town and can cry on cue. In an ideal world it would also not depend on whether the victim was John Lennon, Sharon Tate, or a nobody.
If the criminal has been sending threatening notes from prison the prosecutor could introduce that evidence as a reason to deny parole.
This is not a parole hearing, though even if it were it is not up to YOU to decide that the victims should not be heard on the matter.
I believe his argument is that the judge already decided when he initially handed down sentencing.
No one denies that the victims had a right to be heard at the vacatur hearing. Carr's "argument" is that peons should be silent when their betters shit on them.
The Appellate Court of Maryland denied the victim's representative had a right to be heard at the vacatur hearing. They expressly said there was no right to be heard, but that the victim/victim's representative had a right to be physically present in court.
"A victim does not have a statutory right to be heard at a vacatur hearing. The court, however, has discretion to permit a victim to address the court at a vacatur hearing regarding the impact of the court’s decision on the victim and/or the victim’s family."
It's a bad decision, so small wonder police state apologist Cassell likes it.
"If the criminal has been sending threatening notes from prison the prosecutor could introduce that evidence as a reason to deny parole."
Anecdote alert: we know a middle aged lady. A young man next door developed some kind of compulsion about her. She has never given us the details, but he did something that caused him to be sentenced to a dozen odd years in prison. He continues to say he can't wait to get out and resume doing whatever it was.
He gets a parole hearing every couple of years. As in the case at hand, she gets very short notice, and she drops everything to attend. Her view of things is that no one but her seems to present the ongoing evidence that he is still dangerous.
She may well be mistaken, or whoever is supposed to present that evidence is not doing their job, or our state law is peculiarly bad, I dunno. But she seems like a pretty reasonable, level headed lady to me; I tend to believe her view of things.
Maybe if the system worked better in practice she wouldn't need to testify - she certainly would prefer that, going to testify seems pretty traumatic for her. But in the world as it seems to exist here today, I'm glad she gets heard.
John F. Carr: "Victim testimony is not relevant to parole decisions."
What's the real world have to do with it?
Well now, that's up to the legislators and the voters isn't it?
Reason's execrable commenting software makes it hard to tell what "that" you are talking about.
Ever consider anger management counseling?
I don't think that's the "that" he is talking about, jackass.
In an ideal world the criminal would get the "Justice" Jeffy Dahmer got.
For convenience, a couple links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Hae_Min_Lee
https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/3/11/18259534/serial-hbo-the-case-against-adnan-syed-review
I don't have a problem with a victim providing input into sentencing and parole. I have a problem with a victim having substantive rights to this input — let alone substantive rights to input in things which are none of a victim's business. Like — as in this case — guilt or innocence.
This. It's the same reason we don't ask victims to hire lawyers to prosecute criminal defendants. The DA and Court have higher callings.
Some might have a problem with the prosecutor doing a backdoor governor quasi pardon act.
Hopefully everyone would. But that doesn't have much to do with the question of victim's rights.
This x1000. I've shared about my friend SueZann Bosler before and won't go into it again. The issue is that a criminal's punishment shouldn't depend on the religious,moral, or ethical beliefs of the victim's family. I am opposed to the death penalty. Others aren't. Whether a murderer receives it or not shouldn't depend on whether they murdered my parents or someone else's.
The Legislature disagreed and you don't have a veto. Get over it.
"Why?"
Because nothing is going to be different. He's not going back to prison before the hearing, the hearing will be pro forma with zero chance of anything changing, the conviction will be vacated. Just some wasted time and money so the brother can vent.
Well, Mosby is no longer the State's Attorney, so it's possible the office will take a different, appropriate position this time. But I agree the odds aren't good.
What is that “appropriate position” exactly?
That Syed is indeed guilty of the murder, and that there's no lawful basis to vacate his conviction or grant him any other relief. Sorry, I thought that was obvious.
And what do you base that conclusion of guilt on?
The overwhelming evidence against him?
Well that's question for the courts isn't it?
Personally, I don't know if he's guilty or innocent. I suspect there's not enough evidence to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt (which means he should be released), but not having done a deep dive into all the evidence and testimony I wouldn't claim to profess more.
That's fine.
I have looked into the evidence, and the suggestion that there's a serious question about his guilt is risible.
What is not risible is that the specific crime narrative presented to the jury at trial is incontrovertibly wrong. I have no idea whether or not Syed killed that girl, but we now know the crime did not occur as it was presented.
There isn't overwhelming evidence against him. The state's case then was shit, and the state itself basically tossed it all out during his PCR hearings.
His conviction.
What have YOU got?
Your faith in the correctness of juries is touching. I guess you also believe OJ was innocent?
I wondered that. Even if law says they must be (allowed to be) present and even interact, the legal aspects in a situation like this do not depend on the victim’s rights. This isn’t a punishment severity or early release or parole hearing. It’s the government screwed up the case and withdraws it.
I sympathize with the victim, and certainly there could be further motivated funny business with a podcast (or, god help you, a Netflix series) pushing a narrative for outrage i.e. financial success reasons that inappropriately applies public pressure, but this still has nothing to do with the victim’s input.
The facts have their truthiness, the government followed process. Regardless of what is in doubt now, shall they keep someone in jail because a victim feels (deservedly) bad in light of those changes?
If he’s in jail it is because he was convicted,
And if he was convicted, there is a reasonable chance -- but no assurance -- he committed a crime.
Are you a lawyer?
It's by no means certain, but that's not relevant to my point.
He's been convicted, sentenced, and his sentence not completed or vacated, and he's not paroled. Why should he be out?
It was vacated!
With a name like Adnan Syed involved, do you genuinely believe the gandydancers at this blog give a shit about legal technicalities such as a vacated conviction?
The conviction wasn’t properly vacated, and that has been recognized, but for you that IS just a technicality, eh? Us the fact that Syed is a raghead the reason for that?
Me, I’m for the execution of murderers even if their name is John Smith and they are as White as the driven snow, but projection is strong in you.
There was nothing substantively "improper" about vacating the conviction — the only issue is that the victim's brother didn't get a chance to whine in the courtroom before it was vacated.
It was properly vacated. A judge said so. The reason for reversing the vacature isn't the propriety of it, but that the victim's brother wasn't able to sit in the courtroom- silently- while the vacature happened.
The state concealed exculpatory evidence from the defense. It was a shit case in 2000 when twelve idiots decided to convict him, and it's only gotten worse since then.
Gandy is the judge who allows a death sentence to be carried out despite the 11th hour hard dna evidence and confession of the actual killer because the inmate exhausted his appeals.
you left out "and was guilty as fuck"
So among the seemingly countless subjects about which you opine confidently yet ignorantly, we can now add "exculpatory evidence."
Gandy is the judge who allows a death sentence to be carried out despite the 11th hour hard dna evidence and confession of the actual killer because the inmate exhausted his appeals.
In other words a natural born Trump voter.
Nah, I lost any hope that Trump would be any good when “They alkl must go!” turned into Pence’s touchback immigration farce. That was about a week after the ride down the escalator.
In other words you ARE a natural-born dimwit.
So Trump wasn't extreme enough for you. Got it. That doesn't mean you aren't a perfect fit for the asshole who refused to rescind his torch and pitchfork call to execute the Central Park Five, even after their convictions were vacated based on exonerating DNA evidence.
That would be relevant here if there were 1th hour hard DNA evidence and a confession by the actual killer, but the question under discussion is whether the actual murderer of a young woman is to be set loose on the rest of us for no good reason and without resistance allowed from those he victimized.
Are you actually taking the position that no defendant is ever wrongly found guilty, and should never have the ability to challenge their sentence?
The appeals court decided that it wasn't properly vacated so it isn't vacated.
Does the exclamation point make you feel like less of a dimwit?
Are you Jerry Sandusky?
Gandydancer 5 hours ago (edited)
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"If he’s in jail it is because he was convicted, - "
And convicted of a crime he committed!
You have any inside knowledge or just your usual angry certainty based on little?
"Most readers are aware of the "Serial" podcast, which cast doubt on the reliability of Mr. Syed's convictions in 2000 for (among other things) the 1999 murder of 17-year-old Hae Min Lee. In 2003, the Maryland Court of Special Appeals affirmed his conviction. In 2010, Mr. Syed filed a petition for for post-conviction release, arguing ineffective assistance of counsel. Ultimately, after extended evidentiary and other hearings, the Maryland Court of Appeals affirmed Mr. Syed's conviction. The U.S. Supreme Court denied certioari. At the time, Maryland Attorney General Brian Frosh responded to news of the high court's decision by saying the evidence linking Mr. Syed to Ms. Lee's death was "overwhelming."
Guess you missed this.
One should certainly not take the narrative given by a podcast at face value.
But neither should one simply accept the position of prosecutors and AGs. It's an adversarial system and their default position is always to defend a guilty verdict. It is extraordinarily rare for one to concede that someone may have been wrongfully convicted.
I've linked above to a review at Vox of the subsequent HBO treatment of the case which despite sympathy for Sayed's claims of innocence is quite scathing about both the Serial and HBO versions' veracity. So, no, one should NOT take hem at face value.
Neither the Serial podcast nor the HBO production were particularly convincing, nor did they really delve into the details of the case. However, the Undisclosed podcast did in great detail, and their conclusions are pretty convincing. Not so much that Syed is innocent, but that the crime as presented to the jury isn't supported by the evidence as we now know it, and in fact couldn't be true.
"This isn’t a punishment severity or early release or parole hearing. It’s the government screwed up the case and withdraws it.”
Nonsense. This is ALLEGEDLY the government screwing up the case and withdrawing it. In the interests of justice the opposite point of view should be defended even if the likes of Marilyn Mosby refuse to.
The victim is not in a good position to discuss the proper remedy for alleged constitutional violations by the prosecutor's office. If there is a systemic problem with prosecutor's deliberately losing cases asking uninvolved lawyers or prosecutors to review the decision is a better solution.
That the victims have an opportunity to see that that is done is better than that it not be done because the bureaucrats are not motivated to see that it is done.
"The bureaucrats." Huh.
In my *actual experience as one of those bureaucrats, I can say you don't know what you're talking about. Most prosecutors are highly motivated to convict criminals. The good ones are also highly motivated to do justice when the facts require.
The bad ones do things like notify the victims of vacatur hearings with totally inadequate opportunity to provide input as required by law.
Gee, is it the “good” or “bad” type of bureaucrat that were involved here? Huh?
Given your obliviousness and unconcern I know what kind I think YOU are.
I'm skeptical that it's a good idea to have victims actively engaging in litigation, but a situation like this one, where the political officials who are supposed to be supervising the prosecution refuse to do their jobs, seems like a point in favor. (Not enough to change my mind, to be clear, but certainly not an "argument against 'crime victim's rights.'"
What job did they refuse to do?
They failed to defend the conviction of a factually-guilty murderer with no legal entitlement to relief, thereby potentially allowing him to evade the appropriate sentence for his heinous crime.
As, of course, you know. If you want to defend the substance of Mosby's decision, go for it. If you want to say that the risk of the public being stuck with a corrupt prosecutor making a bad decision is the cost of doing business, so be it. (As I said, I think that's probably where I land.)
Well, the alleged victim has been dead since 1999, so I'm not sure who's rights are supposedly being violated here.
I think any credence of the claim that being related to victim grants someone special rights is going too far.
well Martin Lucifer King's been dead since 1968, and we certainly hear about his rights all the time.
and with this low bar for releasing a convicted Murderer, Jimmy Early Ray would have been released in the 70's, probably have a few more National holidays,
I get it, Towel Head kills a Zipper Head, no skin off my (Hook) Nose, but at least "Repatriate" him back to Ear-Ron or Pock-E-Ston, where his work will be appreciated,
Frank
This comment — like gandydancer’s repeated use of a slur — complies with Prof. Volokh’s civility standards, mostly because those civility standards were a partisan, cowardly lie.
Since Maryland law expressly gives “special rights” to family members of deceased crime victims, I think a Maryland court kind of has to give some “credence of the claim”.
I didn't say it was improper under some law. I said it was going to far.
The guy that was murdered was a victim.
The guy who was murdered's second cousin once removed is not a victim.
This kind of magical transference of victimhood is wrong, and my opinion is that it should not be practiced. Hence, why I said "I think" and "should" in the original post.
The point is that they may be motivated to oppose release when feckless bureaucrats are not. Even if you somehow think the murdered young woman’s brother isn’t as sufficiently a victim as you think desirable, why are you opposed to any element of the adversarial process in this case?
What possible relevant input could Lee have on the question of whether legal mistakes were made in the original trial?
Sure, they be more motivated to see someone punished - so might the old man down the street, but no one seems to be arguing that random guy #14 should be required to give input to these sorts of decision.
And this isn't "sufficiently a victim" - you can't be partially a murder victim (until TNOtLD). Hae Min Lee was murdered. He is the murder victim. Young Lee was not murdered. He is not the murder victim. What can Young Lee contribute, other than "I'm sad"? What special feature does he have to require including him, other than "I'm sad"? Do non-siblings that are sad also get rights? What about siblings that aren't sad? What about second cousins? Neighbors? Former girlfriends?
Too bad you got outvoted, eh?
Lost in all of this is the utter disgrace that is the Baltimore State's Attorney, Marilyn Mosby.
Not at all lost. She is mentioned in both the text and the comments.
Sad thing is Mosby is not the worst of the shit eating dem DA/SAs. Bragg is a classic example. No problem for him to create a felony charge based on a misdemeanor for a political opponent but he is happy to do the opposite for violent criminals like this one with only 36 busts on his rap sheet; especially when the perp goes out and adds another bust to his rap sheet.
https://nypost.com/2022/06/16/da-bragg-cut-deal-to-free-nyc-criminal-who-then-assaulted-woman/
Democrats are shit-eaters who operate cities.
Republicans are roundly bigoted, childishly superstitious, backwater gun nuts who pine for illusory good old days and can't stand all of this damned progress.
Where is the hope for America, ragebot?
That Jerry Sandusky can only continue his rain of Terror at
https://www.cor.pa.gov/Facilities/StatePrisons/Pages/Greene.aspx
Newsflash: our criminal 'justice' system works on plea bargains. That's not "cutting him a sweetheart deal," as the Post clichédly writes; it's just the normal way things work. People are charged with serious crimes, and then they plead guilty to lower level ones, either because prosecutors are lazy or busy or because the initial charge was inflated for the purpose of inducing a plea.
I don't think the complaint is that the defendant benefitted from a plea agreement: rather, it's that he got a far more favorable plea agreement than he should have. I don't really think there are enough facts in the NY Post article to draw a strong conclusion, but certainly Bragg openly promised to resolve cases more generously than his predecessors as one of his reforms, so I think it's fair to judge him if that policy isn't working well.
Hi David. Former prosecutor here. Plea bargains are not "because prosecutors are lazy or busy or because the initial charge was inflated."
That's like saying "civil settlements are because the lawyers are lazy or busy or the initial demand was inflated."
Plea bargains are appropriate resolutions based on the system-wide costs to prosecute (cop time, witness time, judge time, jury time, actual expenses) measured against the system's goals of punishment or retribution or reform or deterrence. The majority of crimes are misdemeanors for which diversion to programs (drug, anger, alcohol, homelessness, vocational, mental health) are more effective than taking the max penalty of X months in jail or prison. Judges in most criminal courts become expert at performing that individualized calculus while maintaining at least a general balance among all defendants charged with similar crimes. Mistakes occur. But it's not because all those crappy prosecutors are too lazy to try hard.
Now justify overcharging.
If Moe-Hammad Atta had been arrested on September 10, 2001 for driving with an expired license, umm, maybe some things would have been different
You did a bait and switch there. We're not talking about sentencing; we're talking about charging.
Moreover, if the issue were that actually the max sentence isn't appropriate or necessary for a particular criminal — if it were that a lesser sentence would accomplish the system's goals of punishment or retribution or reform or deterrence in a particular case — then we wouldn't have the trial tax. Prosecutors wouldn't say, "You can plead guilty to misdemeanor X and get 3 months plus drug treatment — but if you go to trial we'll prosecute you for two counts of felony Y with a five-year minimum on each." That sort of offer is utterly inconsistent with the notion that the person's acts really merit a 3-month sentence.
Marilyn Manson would do a better job
Apparently if a vacatur falls in the forest and no victim is there to see it, it isn't a vacatur.
When a Democrat prosecutor wants to wipe clean the record of a convicted murderer, gol durn it, the victim's family don't have no rights! That's why they called it Last Rites!
What's it called when a Republican prosecutor does it?
My bad. I forgot false convictions don't happen in red jurisdictions.
Find me one
Clever! I may use this.
Hey Paul we get it you're a lobbyist sleazebag for victim's rights. But no one thinks this was a good decision that isn't also a white supremacist and you sound like an idiot.
You ARE an idiot, of course, so it's no wonder you sound like one.
The young woman who was murdered by the raghead was a Korean immigrant, so us White Supremacists (by your definition) don't have a dog in this fight.
I strenuously object to your use of the term "Raghead"
It's "Towel Head"
This is precisely the response the Volokh Conspirators want. And the response their bigoted, half-educated, disaffected, Republican fans provide.
Carry on, clingers. Your betters will continue to let you know how far and how long, of course.
Jerry Sandusky, going less far and less longer every day
Haven’t you heard? Wanting to hold criminals accountable makes you a “white supremacist”!
Cheers, Ed!
Luckily, nothing about this decision has to do with holding a criminal accountable.
You may not think the murderer was a criminal but the jury disagreed.
And you’ve given evidence above (search this page for "Huh.") of what YOU were in this kind of process.
So it's not surprising to me that you don't think murderers are criminals.
Yes, that's definitionally true when a convicted criminal seeks to have his conviction overturned; if the jury had agreed there'd be nothing to overturn. So it's a tautology that adds nothing to the discussion.
It's a reminder that the claim "nothing about this decision has to do with holding a criminal accountable" is idiotic beyond belief. That it's arguably a tautology subtracts exactly nothing from that point.
It's the rampant bigotry at this white, male, right-wing blog -- rather than anything involving accountability for criminals -- that causes mainstream Americans to associate this blog with white supremacy and other forms of bigotry.
and Jerry Sand-usk-ity, as hard and long as your Bettors will give it to you
The victim's family, who are Korean, feel it's a good decision. I doubt THEY are white supremacists.
I don't doubt, however, that you are an idiot savant who thinks that mouthing phrases like "white supremacist" somehow bolsters your argument.
Who votes for this carp? Mosby just seems among the worst politicians in modern times.
I've seen jackasses voted for, but not carp.
How about jackasses who call Moslem-Americans "ragheads?"
Ms. Mosby is far from unique.
Q: You're a Hennepin County (MN) resident. Your county is plagued by out-of-control crime (ever since the George Floyd riots). What do you do?
A: Elect "an openly progressive county attorney," of course!
https://www.americanexperiment.org/defund-aftermath-the-minneapolis-albatross/
They don't get to elect the police chief, now do they?
Nobody ever asks who made the Counterfeit bill Floyd George (Stupidly) tried to pass??? (there is this invention called "Counterfeit Pens" you can buy at Office Max) That (and the Fent-a-Nol) was what got him killed (and whoever let him out early from his previous violent felony conviction)
No, without the Fentanyl the counterfeit-passing wouldn't have killed him.
Suppose this was a different case and the evidence of the defendant’s innocence was overwhelming and unequivocal. Could a state really reverse the voiding of the conviction and keep a person the state and the court now believes is innocent in jail because of a procedural error in notifying the putative victims of their statutory rights?
What about the defendant’s constitutional rights?
Suppose pigs could fly?
The evidence for voiding THIS conviction is neither overwhelming nor unequivocal.
And the process specified in law for considering the question was not followed.
None of which depends on victim input. Whether the government screwed up the trial, or this release, or both, victim input has no bearing.
Government: We messed up and think he is innocent on top of it.
Victim: Nooooo!
Government: Ok, we'll keep him in jail.
That's not how it is supposed to work.
If there's a God this criminal would come and kill one of your famb-ily and you wouldn't be allowed to testify why he shouldn't get leniency.
Don't worry. You're proof there is no God.
I am pretty sure that the government here does not say that they think he’s innocent; they just concede that the conviction was flawed. I believe they intend to retry him.
(But that, of course, doesn't change the point about the 'victim' here.)
"Whether the government screwed up the trial, or this release, or both, victim input has no bearing."
If the victim input actually had no bearing the Maryland Legislature presumably wouldn't have passed the law it did.
Only in your deranged brain is the possible victim input limited to yelling "Nooooo!"
Legislatures never pander. They only make wise decisions.
That is his entire argument. Jury trials never reach incorrect verdicts. Legislatures never pass stupid or poorly worded laws. And Moslem Americans are "ragheads" not entitled to challenge their convictions.
In your scenario, the judge could set bail at $ 1 pending a new vacatur hearing.
This court elided the problem by staying its own order. The idea is the trial court has time to re-do the hearing and touch all the bases this time around.
Because yes, the 8th Amendment probably kicks in once a court holds a defendant it has determined to have been convicted improperly, and the victim's statutory right to participate isn't strong enough to overcome the Constitutional protection. Better that the court avoids that debate, however.
"...the 8th Amendment probably kicks in once a court holds a defendant it has determined to have been convicted improperly, and the victim’s statutory right to participate isn’t strong enough to overcome the Constitutional protection."
Pulling this claim out of your ass isn't as compelling an argument as you imagine it to be.
If the vacatur hearing isn't properly conducted the "determination" is void.
He isn't pulling anything out of his ass. Perhaps you should read the US Constitution. Defendants have rights specified by the text. Crime victims do not. Therefore if someone's constitutional rights were violated, that outweighs a victim's rights granted by state statute. That's obviously true, and all Reallynotbob said. He wasn't even making the argument that this applies to Syed's case.
You're inflating the effect of the ruling, though. It just says they have to hold the hearing again with the victim's family given proper notice and ability to be heard, with the defendant released in the meantime. They hold another hearing, the victim's family gets the chance to be heard, and if the court still believes that he's innocent then it vacates the conviction again. Same result, correct process. Everyone has the chance to be heard.
Apparently it's even worse than that. They don't even have to have the ability to be heard, just to be present. Strange law.
I don't know what the truth of the matter is - there should be a hearing on that point so the court can be informed of the arguments and evidence on both sides.
At the very least, *someone* should be able to make the case in favor of the original verdict - whether a lawyer for the victim's family or an independent attorney specially appointed by the court for that purpose.
Then the judge would get to hear both sides, which I would think would be the purpose of a judicial hearing.
There WAS a hearing and BOTH sides were represented.
The question decided was that the victim's family did not have enough time to be present/prepare.
BTW, I fully support victim assistance programs; however, we cannot say victims have RIGHTS.
That's flat-out wrong.
What did the victim get to say? Did he get to introduce evidence, other than his own testimony?
I can say victims have rights if I want; what makes me wrong?
Why not?
I mean, as a purely factual matter that’s clearly not correct: as Prof. Cassell points out, the New Jersey constitution very explicitly gives them rights.
And of course when I say New Jersey, I mean Maryland.
I may be mistaken, but my understanding is that the rights enjoyed by victims in Maryland comes from a statute, and not a provision of the state constitution.
"...as a purely factual matter that’s clearly not correct..."
That is sure a mealy-mouthed way to say "bullshit".
Unless the "Victim" is Kristin Balls-y Ford, then she gets to testify at the Senate of National TV!
"BTW, I fully support victim assistance programs; however, we cannot say victims have RIGHTS."
We can say that. More importantly, the Maryland Legislature said that. You disagree. That doesn't make it some inalienable truth. Like it or not, in Maryland the victim's family has the legal right to be heard, and they're entitled to exercise that right.
Maryland has rules for sentence vacatur proceedings requiring reasonable notice to the victim of such proceedings and giving the victim a right to attend the proceeding, though not, apparently, a right to do much once there.
Maryland doesn't dot the i's or cross the t's in the course of coming to a decision that the victim didn't like.
The court orders a do-over.
There will be a do-over, and, almost certainly, after dotting the relevant i's and crossing the relevant t's, the same result.
Fair enough.
If crime victims want to be part of the government, then they should also be held liable, except without the defenses of qualified or absolute immunity, in the case of an acquittal or its legal equivalent.
If Syed's conviction is vacated, then he should be allowed to sue Young Lee, and Young Lee should be held liable for all damages related to any defect in the prosecution, including ineffective assistance of Syed's attorneys.
This should be considered a strict liability offense. If the conviction is vacated for any reason, any victim or family member who asserts rights under any "crime victim's act" should be civilly liable.
If there is no conviction, there can be no crime, and if there is no crime, there is no victim. Anyone who claims to be a "victim" in such an instance obviously perpetrated a fraud upon the court.
So Ron Goldman's family must be punished after OJ's criminal acquittal even after winning their civil case?
Yes! OJ's still searching for the real killer (Probably Mark Fuhrman)
Just because the system does not know the culprit does not mean there wasn't a victim. Ms. Lee is very quite dead. Her family in a very real sense deserve justice and have a moral and "rights" claim to it.
That Syed may not be the criminal does not unvictimize the wronged. They are operating under the belief that the state got the right person. That may be true. It may not be. They may be naive to think the state knows what it is doing. But in all of these situations they would still be victims or representatives thereof.
“If crime victims want to be part of the government, then they should also be held liable, except without the defenses of qualified or absolute immunity, in the case of an acquittal or its legal equivalent.”
Why without? Apart from your preference that murderers go free and that victims be victimized a second time by the state?
“If there is no conviction, there can be no crime, and if there is no crime, there is no victim.”
The dead woman might disagree. If she weren’t dead. And it's not in question that her brother is her brother.
OK, reading the opinion, it's quite limited. The victim has the right to enough notice that he'll be able to be physically present in the courtroom and see the evidence. He has no right to address the court, except that the court could, as a matter of grace, permit the victim to speak about the impact that vacating the conviction would have on him. He can't call witnesses to defend the original conviction. Apparently nobody in the courtroom - not the victim, not an amicus specially appointed by the court - will be able to defend the conviction, the only arguments to the court will be against the conviction.
So he can come in person, and the court might graciously let him say how vacating the conviction might hurt his feelings, but he can't introduce testimony and evidence that the defendant got what was legally coming to him and ought to stay in prison.
Good, he can just hire someone to give Mr. Syed a new Asshole on his Forehead (not that I advocate that, I don't!)
Frank
Right — and, who cares? I mean, there can't be anything less relevant to the proceeding than the "impact" on the victim's brother. Either Syed's conviction is flawed or it isn't.
Even assuming that the brother had the right to be there, and that this right was violated by insufficient notice, it's — to use the parlance of pro-prosecution zealots like Prof. Cassell — "harmless error," since that shouldn't and couldn't change the outcome of the hearing.
If nobody is representing the position that the conviction should be upheld – complete with the right to call and cross-examine witnesses and submit evidence – then the court ought to designate someone to fill that role – either the victim’s lawyer, or an outside attorney appointed for that purpose.
No.
Because hearing both sides would tend to confuse the court?
He has a right to see the evidence but cannot address it?
LOL!
So the law is grossly insufficient. That isn’t surprising but that can be fixed.
Ha ha, suddenly the legislature is capable of making mistakes!
"Most readers are aware of the "Serial" podcast"
What a strange assumption. Most people don't listen to podcasts at all, and those who do typically listen to one or two. Almost nobody can name any podcast they don't follow. I doubt most readers here are familiar with the various podcasts the Conspirators promote.
Admittedly, it's one of the top dozen podcasts in the US, but that just means it's slightly less popular than, say, Markiplier's YouTube channel or the Mountain Goats. Would you assume readers are familiar with either of those?
There's actually a good podcast about the Mountain Goats.
If Syed is innocent of this crime, the families in question are not his victims.