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How Should Law Schools Handle Protests at Student Events?
It may be too late for Stanford Law School, but it's not too late for other institutions of higher learning.
As readers doubtless know, last week, student protestors disrupted a lecture by Judge Kyle Duncan of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit at Stanford Law School (SLS). Judge Duncan had been invited to deliver remarks by the SLS chapter of the Federalist Society, and although the chapter is a recognized student organization at SLS, it was not able to proceed with the event as planned. David Lat has provided the most comprehensive account of the event and the fallout, and has also published audio of the entire event. (Some have suggested SLS has video of the entire event as well. If so, I hope it is released for purposes transparency and accontability.)
As SLS Dean Jenny Martinex and Stanford President Marc Tessier-Lavigne have acknowledged, school administrators did not handle the situation well. But what should SLS have done? What should other schools do if they are concerned about disruptive protests at events? Having been involved with such questions at my own university, I think the answer is simple and straight forward: 1) Have a policy; 2) Inform people about the policy; 3) Enforce the policy. If the goal is facilitating the expression of diverse viewpoints and avoiding disruptions, all three steps are necessary.
First, have a policy. This is one thing Stanford did right. It has a policy which broadly protects free expression but also clearly prohibits actions that disrupt public events. Among other things, it provides that:
It is a violation of University policy for a member of the faculty, staff, or student body to:
Prevent or disrupt the effective carrying out of a University function or approved activity, such as lectures, . . . and public events. . . .
This was a scheduled public event (indeed, a lecture) by a university-recognized student group.
The policy is good because, among other things, it ensures that members of the university community will not be punished or sanctioned for the viewpoints they express, but also makes clear that all groups--whether Outlaw or FedSoc--has the same right to organize and host events without undue interference. In order for all student groups to have the ability to present their views and explore ideas of interest to their members, all groups must have the same ability to hold their own events without interference.
It is one thing to have a policy. It is another to have it observed. To accomplish this it is important that a university both inform people of the content of the policy and to enforce the policy. I emphasize both because the aim of the policy is to protect free expression and prevent disruptions, and informing people of the policy is one way to discourage violations. Relying solely on post hoc enforcement, while sometimes necessary, is the most prudent and effective way to ensure a policy is followed.
In practice I thnk this means that it is often a good idea for a university representative -- an administrator or tenured faculty member -- to announce the policy before the start of an event at which there may be a disruption, so that attendees are on notice of what will and will not be tolerated. In my experience, such an announcement often helps channel protest in more productive directions.
When I was an undergraduate at Yale, a group invited a notoriously anti-semitic representative of the Nation of Islam to speak at Yale Law School. Many students and other members of the univeristy community were outraged, and some called on Dean Guido Calabresi to block the event. Dean Calabresi rightly refused. Instead, he explained that he would join the protestors outside of the venue in protest before the event, and then he would go in to hear the speaker, listen politely, and (if given the opportunity) ask pointed questions. This was a good approach. Dean Calabresi made clear to those in his community who felt threatened by the speaker that he shared their concerns, but he also demonstrated that such concerns did not justify disrupting the event or preventing the audience from hearing and engaging with the speaker, even though the speaker was presenting a hateful message.
Similarly, if university administrators get word of a potential disruption, they can also take proactive steps to channel or guide would-be protesters toward forms of protest that will not run afoul of the rules, such as picketing or leafletting outside of an event, holding up signs that do not obstruct the audience's view, or holding a counter-event. After all, the aim is to prevent disruptions and (I would think) to avoid punishing students unnecessarily. (Of course, if some students wish to engage in civil disobedience, so be it, but civil disobedience typically involves a willingness to accept the consequences.)
If a university has a clear policy, and if a university informs members of the community of the policy so as to put them on notice, I then think it is appropriate for the university to enforce that policy. Violations of university speech polices are often violations of the school's student code of conduct, and should be treated as such. (The Stanford policy expressly anticipates this.) But this does not mean the policies should be enforced in a punitive fashion. Particularly in law schools, student codes of conduct are intended to help acclimate students to the norms of the profession they plan to enter. We expect our students to comply, but we also make (or, at least, should make) an effort to educate students about why the various conduct standards are important.
One complicating factor about what occurred at SLS is that multiple law school administrators were in the room during the disruptions and did nothing to inform students that they were violating Stanford's policy, let alone to enforce it. This muddies the waters a bit because I think some students could fairly argue that this sent a signal that their conduct was okay, and would perhaps make it unfair to impose punitive punishments on them. This is something SLS administrators will have to consider.
Going forward, however, I would think the school should make clear that future disruptions will face serious punishments, including at least the sort of formal censure that law students would be required to disclose as part of the character and fitness process for state bars. Whether or not students understood the contours of Stanford's policy before, they are clearly on notice now.
So, to sum up, schools should 1) have a clear policy; 2) inform people about the policy; and 3) enforce the policy. All three steps are important if the goal is protecting speech, avoiding disruptions of events, and unnecessarily punishing students for seeking to make their voices heard.
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"1) have a clear policy; 2) inform people about the policy; and 3) enforce the policy." Wow, kind of like they did for 1000 years until the leftist captured the institutions.
Translation: Yeah, it was boorish behavior, but give 'em pass this time.
"SLS Dean Jenny Martinex" - changed her name....or more? 🙂
So what happens, at the next talk, when the students aren't disruptive, but ask "pointed" questions that cut a bit too deeply for the presenter's taste - and we're having just another round of debate over how to ask "respectful" questions and not use the forum to have "divisive" debates in the Q&A portion?
What happens, when the students aren't disruptive, but they convey their displeasure through their dress or other symbols/signs, in a manner that the presenter feels inappropriate?
No one will dispute that no one wins, when a group of students shouts down a visiting judge, who throws a tantrum when confronted too directly. But let's not pretend that people like Duncan or Ho will stop at "enforcing" a policy that allows them to speak - but expects them to take pointed questions respectfully. They will decide what kind of dissent they'll accept. Today, it's a raucous lecture; next time, it'll be a Q&A where they don't come out well. And their little toadies like Josh and David Lat will support them, every step of the way.
"But let’s not pretend that people like Duncan or Ho will stop at “enforcing” a policy that allows them to speak – but expects them to take pointed questions respectfully. They will decide what kind of dissent they’ll accept."
So let the group organizing the event decide what kind of dissent is permitted, and let students who wish to dissent further reserve their own space.
Students have a right to express themselves, but they don't have a right to an audience that includes the Judge and the people who came to hear him speak.
What a load of garbage. Nobody has suggested that questions can not be asked or non-disruptive protests be held. All that has been asked is that there be a minimum standard of not being disruptive. Hardly seems like a request to ban all protests.
This is sheer fantasy. For decades, the Federalist Society has sponsored debates with its intellectual opponents. It regularly brings speakers to campus that draw large crowds with opposing views. "Pointed questions" are entirely commonplace at those events. What's relatively new is the belief among some of its intellectual opponents (a small fraction but one with an outsized influence on campus leadership) that ideas are dangerous and mob behavior is justified to prevent it.
This weird impulse to try to "balance" criticism of such thuggery with victim-blaming ("when they finally stopped screaming epithets at him, he was short-tempered and rude!") is unseemly. If there's evidence of Federalist Society events at which speakers, who were permitted to speak without interruptions and insults, nonetheless became hostile and refused to engage with pointed questioners, I'd love to see it. Such speakers shouldn't be invited back.
Haven't you heard? Concepts like "unseemly" and "civility" are just cudgels to be used against the Right. As for the Left, it is (as it's always been) "the ends justify the means!"
Sure. Will such policies be enforced even-handedly? Think you can convince folks of that? Easy to criticise people one disagrees with, isn't it?
No punishment equals encouragement.
Agreed. Which is why the Jan 6 trials for the seditionists are so important and calls to pardon them are poisonous to democracy.
Let the punishment fit the crime then. The January 6 protesters had no weapons, caused no permanent damage, didn't kill anyone and as we have seen in videos were waved in and even escorted around the building. Most are guilty of no more than trespassing at worst and many not even that. A small fine is all they should face.
Guy beats police officer with a fire extinguisher. CountMontyC says he should only get a small fine.
Parody? Sarcasm? Bad trolling attempt?
He said "most."
Who beat someone with a fire extinguisher? Link please? Video?
I remember this narrative being part of the incredible, repeated bald-faced lies from the liberal media regarding Brian Sicknick.
A quick search indicates that someone _threw_ a fire extinguisher. So, which is it? Did they throw it, or beat someone with it? Or is that a different story?
Holy shit, throwing a fire extinguisher at a cop. This is not even 0.0000000000000001% of what we saw from BLM/antifa riots that year, only counting incidents on video. But all of that information is suppressed. We watched countless horrific videos being scrubbed from the internet in real time.
Here's the video. The fire extinguisher hits the cop's helmeted head, no apparent injuries.
So was that a crime worthy of a year in solitary confinement? Would you demand the same punishment for BLM/Antifa protesters for doing the same thing? And would you accept the prosecutors withholding video evidence that was exculpatory?
Fine punish the thrower of the fire extinguisher but do so according to the actual injury caused and appropriate laws.
Thanks. Well we’ve gone from Brian Sicknick was brutally killed by having his skull bashed in with a fire extinguisher, to . . . unnamed officer appears unfazed as small fire extinguisher lobbed into crowd bounces off his helmet.
Does anyone think that this counts as “beating” someone with a fire extinguisher?
And this is the WORST thing that shawn_dude can come up with to try and demonize the J6 protesters???
I’m just continually amazed by all the derangement and propaganda. The BLM rioters literally murdered dozens of innocent people. Thousands of vicious beatings are on video that got posted online, but the originals were mostly deleted by Twitter etc and good luck finding much with search engines. Here’s just one, throwback to when a guy got STONED. No, not the hippie kind of STONED. https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/dallas-man-beaten-stoned-and-left-for-dead-by-rioters/
To add more context even it also seems like the crowd was actually peaceful until the Capitol Police lobbed teargas into the middle of the crowd and it was this unprovoked action that really got the action going.
I today learned: beating is the same as tossing once.
Students should be able to protest outside the event in places that are the equivalent of open fora.
Schools should have a viewpoint-neutral policy allowing student groups to reserve space for their exclusive use for events, and the level of back-and-forth, counter speech, and sign holding should be determined by the group hosting the event.
If students aren't free to express their viewpoints to their liking during one group's event, they are free to hold an event of their own.
Don’t you mean “public schools” here? (Which Stanford isn’t) Otherwise you’re saying that even private schools who define themselves through a point of view, like religious schools, and who censor students and employees based on that point of view should abandon that and become viewpoint-neutral.
I’m reminded of the way the Bush II administration handled protestors–they defined “protest zones” that were blocks away and out-of-view from the event and limited them to that space. I agree that protests should generally* not occur within the forum itself but right outside the door seems more than acceptable. Defining “open fora” narrowly in order to prevent meaningful engagement undermines any reasonableness.
*Civil disobedience–with accompanying consequences–remains a valid form of protest. Given this judge’s career-spanning anti-LGBT activism and open homophobia (he once claimed gay marriage would imperil civic peace), I would expect him to encounter protestors often when he speaks publicly in a forum he doesn’t control.
Well, Sandford is in CA and is subject to the Leanord law, but my comment addressed what I think schools ought to do, not what they are required to do.
"*Civil disobedience–with accompanying consequences–remains a valid form of protest."
I thought civil disobedience by definition is an invalid form of protest. Do you think civil disobedience that prevents a woman from getting an abortion is a valid form of protest?
There is a point at which an action moves beyond civil disobedience. I'm probably not the right person to define the line but I think physical violence clearly is on the other side. Having said that, as long as the protestors at a women's health clinic do not violate their civil rights and the protestors accept any legal repercussions from their actions, then yes, it's a valid form of protest. Part of what makes civil disobedience a powerful form of protest is the willingness to accept the punishment to demonstrate one's commitment to their position and overall respect for our system of laws in general. As such, I'd expect the people arrested at a clinic for blocking the entrance, for example, to plead guilty and accept the consequences for their actions.
Civil disobedience is often illegal, because the protesters intentionally break laws to make a point. But where would we be without the Declaration of Independence, the March on Selma, the burning of Vietnam era draft cards, the Montgomery bus boycott, or white-only lunch counter sit-ins? This was a country literally founded on acts of civil disobedience against the British crown.
I think the defining trait of "civil disobedience" is the expectation of arrest.
So sure, exercise your "civil disobedience" and physically block a woman from getting to her appointment. Then you get arrested, and she continues on her way.
Should private schools be completely open and transparent about which views they will NOT tolerate? Is that what you're suggesting?
That's fine: I don't object to religious schools that require faculty (and students to a greater or lesser extent) to adhere to a particular set of beliefs. But such schools (i) are generally in the top tier academically and (ii) do not hypocritically profess to allow untrammeled free expression; in fact their policies are typically declared openly and in advance. If Stanford wants to state openly that it does not permit the expression of views by certain people, and is willing to accept the resulting diminution of its academic status, Godspeed.
As long as the people in charge include the likes of Tirien Steinbach, these incidents will continue to crop up. Ms. Steinbach was childish and unprofessional at this event, and she was supposed to be one of the "adults" in the room.
Allow her to continue employment (despite a demonstrated inability to exercise professionalism), and it sends a signal that such behavior is excusable. Send her on her way, and it begins to send a message that clearly out-of-line behavior will not be tolerated.
I was a jurist on a fairly petty trial once where the judge routinely mis-gendered the male-to-female victim of a crime. He seemed to do it unintentionally and apologized occasionally for the lapse, which got tiresome after a while. It was rude and disrespectful and called into question his ability to run a fair trail where a trans person was involved, but it didn't appear intentional.
Whereas, Judge Kyle Duncan has gone to the mat to defend his insistence that he cannot be required to refer to someone by their preferred pronouns in his courtroom. He has a history of anti-LGBT activism outside of his courtroom and blatant homophobia within it. While two wrongs don't make a right, it amazes me that we hold a student audience and a university dean to a higher standard of decorum than we do a judge in his own courtroom. If the school should be neutral to the speaker and the students respectful (which would be admirable) then too should a sitting judge avoid treating trans persons in his courtroom with anything less than a similar level of neutrality and respect.
I have a hard time feeling bad for this judge who seems to demand a level of basic courtesy he isn't willing to offer to others.
You may have been a juror, but you weren't a jurist.
"How Should Law Schools Handle Protests at Student Events?"
Well, in the sixties in the south it involved lots of state troopers with four foot long hickory batons, a few bleeding heads instead of bleeding hearts, and a few months on a chain gang.
My solution? Ticketh tt events. The organizers can get a number of tickets appropriate to the venue, and choose how to distribute them.
What happens next is on the organizers.
Unclear what you are saying. But sounds like this puts the onus/cost/etc for security and maintaining order on the organizers, which invites hecklers vetoes does it not? I'd rather the campus authorities have clear and open and evenly enforced rules about speech and allowable means to protest that speech, and to use it's means (campus police, deans, etc) to enforce those rules.
It's really not complicated. I'm suggesting that instead of universities acting like they need to do their own thing, they just act more like a traditional property-manager that's rented out a venue.
Not quite clear how you think that addresses the problem of protestors disrupting the event.
well, duh
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