The Volokh Conspiracy
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Is The DEI Juice Worth The Squeeze?
The debacle at Stanford Law School is the logical conclusion of DEIdeology.
Watching Judge Kyle Duncan's experience at Stanford Law School brought me back to my protest at the CUNY Law School. The CUNY students refused to let me speak. They interrupted me with crass comments and invective. And after they finished protesting, they stormed out of the room--none were actually interested in what I had to say. But there was one big difference between 2018 and 2023. At CUNY, an associate Dean intervened and warned the students not to interrupt me. The Dean did not go on a lengthy rant about how awful my views were. Now, granted, after the Dean left the room, she did nothing to actually stop the disruptions. But at least at CUNY, circa 2018, the administration could still be distinguished from the hecklers. Not so at Stanford Law School. If you haven't already, read David Lat's excellent summary of the event. (I am deeply grateful that David exhumed himself from the now-moribund Above The Law; subscribe to his Subtack and support his vital work.)
Here, I'd like to focus on the remarks of Tirien Steinbach, the SLS Associate Dean for DEI. A common theme she repeated was whether Judge Duncan's visit justified the harm he was causing to the community. Steinbach asked, Is the juice worth the squeeze?
Steinbach: I'm also uncomfortable because it is my job to say: You are invited into this space. You are absolutely welcome in this space. In this space where people learn and, again, live. I really do, wholeheartedly welcome you. Because me and many people in this administration do absolutely believe in free speech. We believe that it is necessary. We believe that the way to address speech that feels abhorrent, that feels harmful, that literally denies the humanity of people, that one way to do that is with more speech and not less. And not to shut you down or censor you or censor the student group that invited you here. That is hard. That is uncomfortable. And that is a policy and a principle that I think is worthy of defending, even in this time. Even in this time. And again I still ask: Is the juice worth the squeeze?
Duncan: What does that mean? I don't understand…
Judge Duncan's confusion is warranted. He was there to talk about actual decisions of his court, and how those cases affected Supreme Court jurisprudence. Students attend an elite institution like Stanford to learn firsthand from luminaries like sitting federal judges. How could those comments possibly not be worth Duncan's presence on campus? If students did not think Duncan's remarks were worthwhile, they could have done anything else. Like wait on line at a Silicon Valley Bank branch. But Steinbach's remarks should make sense to anyone who has witnessed the explosion of DEI in recent years.
On Saturday evening, the Stanford President Marc Tessier-Lavigne and Law School Dean Jenny Martinez issued a joint apology. Why was the letter signed jointly? Ed Whelan speculates that the President "was disappointed with [Martinez's] excuse-mongering for Steinbach and didn't trust her to issue a proper apology."
The letter promptly threw Steinbach under the bus:
In addition, staff members who should have enforced university policies failed to do so, and instead intervened in inappropriate ways that are not aligned with the university's commitment to free speech.
Good for the President and the Dean! (Update: I now realize that referring to Steinbach as "staff" rather than a "Dean" is quite disparaging--one might even say, "dehumanizing.") But Stanford cannot absolve itself of this problem by sacrificing Steinbach as a scapegoat. (To be clear, I suspect Steinbach will be quietly reassigned in six months after things quiet down with a nice settlement offer.) Rather, Stanford created this problem by establishing, reinforcing, and growing the DEI bureaucracy.
When a university empowers DEI to deem speech "harmful," DEI will deem speech "harmful." When a university empowers DEI to designate spaces as "safe," DEI will deem spaces as "safe." When a university allows DEI to treat some people as "oppressors," DEI will treat those people as "oppressors." When a university teaches students that "harmful" speech has no place on a campus, the students will take steps to prevent "harmful" speech on their campus. This protest was a direct byproduct of what students have learned for years.
Every word in Steinbach's speech reinforces these core planks of DEI. And her speech was obviously prepared in advance. She was so confident in her beliefs that she delivered those remarks, knowing she would be recorded. Steinbach no doubt thought she was on the right side of the university. Did Dean Martinez approve this conduct in advance? Or did Steinbach thinks she did not need to run her tirade by the Dean first? In either case, we have witnessed the endgame of DEI. These officials are empowered to extend their tendrils into every facet of an academic institution, with or without the backing of the Dean. Their mission is not to promote learning or academic inquiry, but instead to advance a specific ideology, which I refer to as DEIdeology. These beliefs are not trying to achieve a goal of neutrality. Rather, consistent with anti-racist teachings, they seek to use their newly-acquired power to elevate preferred messages and to deplatform "harmful" speech.
I firmly believe that many people support DEI efforts in good faith as a means to improve conditions on campus. And these offices can do important work. But the debacle at Stanford Law School is the logical conclusion of DEIdeology. At the bottom of that slippery slope is Tirien Steinbach.
So let me ask the same question that Steinbach posed? Is the DEI juice worth the squeeze? I'll assume for the sake of argument that these departments provide some benefit to academic institutions. I only assume, because there is some evidence these programs do not actually provide any tangible benefits. Moreover, many of those purported benefits with regard to admissions and hiring will likely soon be declared illegal by the Supreme Court. But let's assume there are benefits.
Still, what are the costs of DEI? The core purpose of an academic institution is to promote the pursuit of knowledge. I quote from the venerated Kalven Committee report:
The mission of the university is the discovery, improvement, and dissemination of knowledge. Its domain of inquiry and scrutiny includes all aspects and all values of society. A university faithful to its mission will provide enduring challenges to social values, policies, practices, and institutions. By design and by effect, it is the institution which creates discontent with the existing social arrangements and proposes new ones. In brief, a good university, like Socrates, will be upsetting. . . .
The neutrality of the university as an institution arises then not from a lack of courage nor out of indifference and insensitivity. It arises out of respect for free inquiry and the obligation to cherish a diversity of viewpoints. And this neutrality as an institution has its complement in the fullest freedom for its faculty and students as individuals to participate in political action and social protest. It finds its complement, too, in the obligation of the university to provide a forum for the most searching and candid discussion of public issues
Any activity that thwarts this mission is immediately suspect. Apparently, students at Stanford are taught to abandon that pursuit of knowledge, and instead ask a federal circuit judge, "Why can't you find the clit?" I'm sure the student who asked this question thought he was doing exactly what he had learned, and there would be no repercussions for his action. If that is what DEI taught him, and the others who disrupted Judge Duncan's speech, then the DEI juice at Stanford is not worth the squeeze.
Let me close with a plan of action. Every university should survey their DEI office, with a single question: do you agree with the Stanford President that Steinbach acted "inappropriately"? If the answer is anything other that yes, then the scope of the DEI office's authority and budget should immediately be revisited. Forget squeezing juice. To paraphrase Justice Scalia, the budgetary pencil should be driven through that bitter rind.
Update: Judge Duncan gave an interview with Rod Dreher, and addressed the "juice" metaphor:
Many people are talking about the weird metaphor she used: "Was the juice worth the squeeze?" I had no idea what she was talking about, but at some point I realized that she meant, "Yes, you were invited to campus, and we 'welcome' you. But your presence here is causing such hurt and division. So, was what you were going to talk about really worth all this pain you're causing by coming here?" In other words, it's just a folksy way of giving these students a heckler's veto. If they hate you enough, then surely it wasn't worth your coming to campus. Apply that twisted idea to the civil rights movement, and see where you end up. It isn't on the side of the people marching across the Selma bridge.
In other words, what the dean was preaching is the exact opposite of the law of free speech. We protect the speaker from the mob, not the mob from the speaker. And here was a dean of one of the best law schools in the world using the exact opposite of that basic principle to silence a sitting federal judge. I just read back through what I wrote, and I find it hard to believe what I'm describing. And yet it happened. You can watch the video.
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“Unrestricted free speech, paradoxically, results in less speech, not more.”
Yoel Roth
Sam, when are you do in court next? (And what Course did you graduate from the Tute?)
Sam, don't your parents work at Stanford?
I love how you think this is some gotcha for the Normals who believe the State shouldn't control people's speech.
Yeah, the state should be used to utterly destroy some rowdy kids who are mean to a federal judge at a public meeting.
Whose doing that?
The question is, who WANTS it done.
Why don't you tell us who you think wants it done?
I ask because there's no evidence that anyone here, either in the article or the comment threads, wants it done.
Wow, really? Firings, arrests, beatings, blackballing, burning down universities, the inevitable rise of a reactionary fascist state – all suggested in the comments to these stories.
Ah. Stanford is run according to the feelings and opinions of...the Reason commentariat?? When did that happen? Wow.
Or is that idea just an artifact of your inability to admit you made a stupid assertion?
That's just too painfully dumb.
Rowdy kids. You can't have a cultural revolution without them.
Yes this is how the Revolution begins.
Is there some kind of melodrama contest I am not privvy to?
Most Nazi stormtroopers were pretty young. Just "rowdy kids," I suppose.
I think it’s actually meant to make the opposite point.
Congrats to SBF for making an ambiguous comment. Try harder next time.
A free speech absolutist would support the students…an individual that advocates moderation and censorship would support the speaker.
No, the hacker's veto would not be supported you leftist twit. Open dialogue between the two viewpoints and counterpoints, sure but this was just insults, threats and nonsense.
And, of course, it took place on private property in an institution which (presumably) has rules against exactly that kind of disruption.
There is no such thing as "free speech abosolutism", which gives people the right to use other people's property in that way. Sure, you can conceive of such a thing, but it doesn't exist anywhere in the real world*.
* Reason, of course, appears to allow people to say anything and everything in these comments, but that is entirely their choice--it is not based on any supposed civil right. (And look how well it's worked out: they've created a special place where it is impossible to have a thoughtful discussion about anything, not even libertarianism. Well done, Reason!)
The students are engaged in effective altruism—using their voices to silence a nitwit’s words that if believed make everyone dumber.
Shortest answer: no, it’s not worth the squeeze. It’s an enormous waste of money and time, designed to push a narrative that’s bullshit to begin with.
We will continue to take a strong stance in defense of free speech because we believe the alternatives are so much worse. We believe that when you use censorship to silence certain voices or push them to another place, you don’t make the misinformation problem disappear but you do make the mistrust problem worse.
"We believe that when you use censorship to silence certain voices or push them to another place..."
I'm not sure who you think is being censored. If the students want to criticize the judge, they are free to reserve their own space and have their own event.
The only speech being censored was that of the judge.
It's an affirmative action jobs program for woke morons with worthless degrees.
These are the same kind of ugly, midwit idiots that led the French Revolution.
Yes, and they're just as eager to punish "counter-revolutionaries."
What if transferring the money was one of the principal goals?
What a mess. The students acted like angry toddlers. They cannot expect to be able to function as real life lawyers.
They were merely the useful idiots -- they didn't plan it.
Censorship for me…but not for thee!
Adolf Hitler
But they can expect to act like federal judges! Hey-oh.
I think you are being too kind -- I consider DEI to be the new KKK.
Every bit as problematic and every bit an open affront to everything that higher education is supposed to stand for.
And much as there was an Anti Klan act (which led to Section 1983), there is now a need for an Anti DEI act.
Knowing that they are on a platform that defends freedom of expression can give writers and readers greater confidence that their information sources are not being manipulated in some shadowy way. To put it plainly: censorship of bad ideas makes people less likely, not more likely, to trust good ideas.
Read Milton's Areopagitica if you haven't.
That’s actually from the 3 Substack founders. I just think it is rationalization to make money off of deadly disinformation like that pushed by Alex Berenson. Nothing like $$$ to make a good rationalization. Of course Twitter is dumb to censor when Substack and podcasts exist.
I'm glad you deem others to be able to determine what ideas are "bad". How did you become so perfectly able to distinguish?
I think you are being too kind — I consider DEI to be the new KKK.
So you're a fan?
He's not a Democrat, so no.
Michael, do you seriously think the KKK would be welcome in today's Democratic Party? If so, you're an even bigger idiot than you've so far let on.
Nope, if the Klansmen came back from the dead, today they would all be voting Republican.
You describe a reason for us to think Michael is an idiot and then in the next sentence provide us the same reason to think that you’re one.
The steadfast belief that both of you have that your political opponents are pure evil is pathetic.
Our political system is broken and it’s because of people like y’all.
I know you like to see irredeemable partisans everywhere but that’s not what Krycheck said here.
Not all Republicans are open black hating nights, but all open black hating bigots are Republicans.
I wouldn’t come here if I thought conservative thought had no merits. But don’t pretend pointing out thy got some white supremacists in their ranks is the same as saying the GOP is all evil.
And who is the bigoted hatred on the left directed at? Are you even open minded enough to acknowledge that it exists? I’m betting no.
That’s the point I was making. Both parties have bigots out in their extremes.
There aren’t enough actual white supremacists around to fill a minor league baseball stadium, but let’s hang them on the Republicans just because it makes us feel superior. Unless, of course, we’re counting everyone who makes the ok sign as a supremacist. In that case they’re everywhere.
But of course virtually nobody who makes the ok sign is actually a supremacist, or is even aware of that meme. Problem is that there is such a shortage of actual supremacists that we’ve got to use some bullshit to create more of them.
This random blog is full of folks who think the Democrats keep
white males down, believe the Bell Curve is real, and want to tell blacks their voting choices mean they are on a plantation.
All anecdotes, but enough to show that your definition of white supremacist is quite narrow if you think they can fit I a room.
Yes, the ten or fifteen posters in here who are like that (most or all of whom I have muted) really move the white supremacy needle.
And note that you didn’t acknowledge the bigotry problems in the progressive wing of your own side.
If you’re deliberately ignoring ten or fifteen racists that are right in front of you, how many more are you ignoring that aren't?
There is an antisemitism issue, but the problems on the left are hard to call bigotry, unless you want to claim cops are a race.
There is open antisemitism, even among elected officials.
And whites and Asians are a race.
Bigotry is not only about race, Sarcastr0. Even if a lot of the people blaming white supremacy for all the things they don’t like (academic standards, law enforcement, other-than-white people challenging their claims) try to make everything about race.
"There is an antisemitism issue, but the problems on the left are hard to call bigotry, unless you want to claim cops are a race."
Huh? Just last week someone one the left was claiming that white people had earned the enmity of black people.
bevis the lumberjack : “Yes, the ten or fifteen posters in here…”
I’ve found a good test whether racism still exists in the U.S. Find a news story that deals with a prominent black person and go check the comments over on Fox News. The sample size is large since the comments often run into the thousands. And the results?
Anger and bitter to be sure, but that’s typical with today’s Right. But there’s also a special hate that just radiates off the screen. That, and the sheer joy taken recycling long-abandoned racist tropes, like someone lovingly looking over treasured old photos The actual story doesn’t matter a bit. There was one professionally written in dry legalese on Justice Jackson’s first questions from the bench. Gorillas appeared repeatedly in the Fox News comment section.
A more recent item on Jackson brought a continual stream of comments on her incompetence, unworthiness, unintelligence, and complete lack of qualifications. There was a cute story recently about an awestruck young fan seated next to Lebron James courtside (he was injured & in street clothes). The comments there covered a broad range, but there was a strange obsession with the idea he smelled bad. That and he was going to rob or assault the small kid (the latter because he hates white people, the former because that’s just his nature). The fan was a young white girl, which added a whole other level of rancid weird to many comments….
Bevis, it’s a logical fallacy to infer that because I say the GOP has racists, that therefore the Democratic Party doesn’t have racists. And it’s a different logical fallacy to infer that because I say some GOP members are racists, that therefore all Republicans are racists. In both cases you’re imputing to me something I didn’t say.
I will say that we have some fairly vile open racists among the commenters here and none of them are Democrats.
All that said, just to be clear, here’s what I actually was driving at: As Sarcastro points out, the racists these days mostly vote Republican and have since the Democrats became the party of civil rights. That doesn’t mean all Republicans are racist. But, if I were a Republican it would bother the hell out of me that my party is the one the racists have chosen to call home.
I think what you say about recent history is more or less correct.
Problem is that the parties are evolving again and the Democrats are moving away from being the party of civil rights. Not that the Republicans are moving in to fill the void of course.
"the racists these days mostly vote Republican"
The GOP holds its arms open to them.
Grrr don't try to post Reason comments on a phone, that's my advice.
After accidentally flagging a bunch of comments with no way to undo. Sorry guys, hope you're not banned!
You cannot possibly believe that. (Or you dramatically overestimate the size of minor league baseball stadiums!) 74 million people voted for Donald Trump. If 99.99% of them are not white supremacists, the remainder would still fill a minor league stadium. And that doesn't even factor in any of the 150 million non-voters out there.
The size of minor league stadiums appears to range greatly, from 500 on the low end to 50,000 on the high end.
And, assuming that the sets of "white supremacist" and "Trump voters" are not the same set, 0.01% seems fair. Then, 0.01% of 74,000,000 is 7400. On the whole, I'd rate Bevis' statement as Mostly True.
https://www.baseballpilgrimages.com/ballparks/current.html
Swing and a miss, strike 3, you're out.
That was the first strike. I hate stickball, but at least I can count...
It is hilarious that leftists pushed themselves to a point where the most prominent White Supremacist gatherings in major cities are NBA games where the entire crowd and many players burst into flashing their support for White Supremacy multiple times per game. Odd that only half the fans do it at a time but I don't make the rules.
"all open black hating bigots are Republicans"
Then explain the vitriol directed at Clarence Thomas. Because it seems pretty open to me.
That doesn't count because it might make S_0 uncomfortable.
Oh no that sure sucks. It’s also one guy. And absolutely of a different category than the full on lets deport all the low IQ blacks and Hispanics. Of which there are several on this blog, and plenty more on 4chan and Reddit and Free Republic.
Bigotry is bigotry.
What convenient rejection of perspective and magnitude!
Ah, I see. "It's only one guy." is way different minimization than "there's really not that many overt white supremacists". It's the Hand Waving School of Rhetoric!
I suppose that "argument" would hold true if you threw in any black conservative commentator, judge, Congressperson, or comic. Hell, they don't even have to be conservative to earn the vituperation of the sub-midwits on social media. Ask Sowell, Loury or McWhorter if they receive vicious hatred, threats and insults. But all that can be dismissed, while your inexpert analysis of Fox News comment threads can be used to draw valid conclusions about conservatives, Republicans or white people in general.
The distinction you draw is much like the line from Star Trek:
"The same? Don't you see? I am black on the right side, and white on the left side, while HE is black on the left side, and white on the right side!! It's nothing alike!"
First, the actual actions here are different. Attacking Thomas' racial authenticity is absolutely racially tinged, but it is not the same as broad discussions of blacks generally.
And also, as noted below re: Ambassador Rice, not applied to black conservatives generally. That doesn't make it great, but it does go to magnitude.
Second, there is one person on this blog who uses that language, and no shortage of folks who say blacks have a lower IQ, are naturally more violent, should not be able to vote, etc. etc.
Thirdly, at the national level, as also noted below, there are quite a few open white supremacists in all but label who are deeply MAGA. You'd be hard pressed to find that on the left, unless you expand the definition of racist to be 'supports affirmative action.' Which is very silly, but part of the white resentment politics of the right these days. Hence all the racists loving them.
The vitriol directed at Thomas is that he, a product of affirmative action, is now moving to close the door to others that enabled him to rise to the top. I’m not sure that criticism is entirely fair, and I would not make that argument myself, but that’s the reason.
The vitriol directed at Clarence Thomas is because he’s a black guy that doesn’t toe the doctrinaire line. Same with Tim Scott. Condoleezza Rice. Same with any other conservative black person. It’s not affirmative action, it’s wrongthink.
And I’m not a fan of Thomas as a justice because he’s not a big proponent of liberty.
Or, to put it another way, people don't dilsike them because they're black, but because they disagree quite fervently with their words and actions. It would be weirder if they said and did they things they did but liberals didn't criticise them, because they're black. If it's wrongthink to diagree with peple ideologically, then you accuse Sarcastro of wrongthink every time you attack him.
"Or, to put it another way, people don’t dilsike them because they’re black..."
You don't think people refer to Clarance Thomas using the racial slur "Uncle Thomas" are doing it because he's black?
It's always disappointing when someone uses that term, I'll concede.
Condoleezza Rice attracts vitriol?
???
Care to elaborate?
There are certainly substantive, informed, or at the very least non-bigoted critiques of Justice Thomas from the left. There are also not shortage of blatantly and nakedly racist attacks, including from a frequent poster on this very site.
Absolutely. I'm not a fan of his legal opinions generally. But it has nothing to do with skin color.
Who, Josh Blackman? Ironic name aside, I always thought he was an ends-justify-means type when it came to Thomas’s race.
That's the excuse, not the reason.
'Y'all' being 'pure evil.'
If you think Krychek's invention of a straw man is a (valid) reason to think I am an idiot, that says more about you than about me.
It is silly fiction to try to transplant the KKK of very long ago into today's political culture -- we do not see people marching around with stupid white robes and hoods to hide their identities. (Instead, they march around in black bloc outfits with masks to hide their identities.) It is not silly to point out that the same flavor of populism and the same race-driven themes are common to both the historical KKK and today's DEI, or to point out that the Democrat party has been a common thread throughout those movements.
Martinned's silly political sniping deserved no better response than I gave it.
'It is not silly to point out that the same flavor of populism and the same race-driven themes are common to both the historical KKK and today’s DEI'
Yeah, the ultimate evolution of lynching black people is encouraging them to go to college.
I was quoting Krychek’s opinion, not mine.
I agree it’s a silly fiction to try to transplant the KKK of years ago to today’s politics. So,Michael, why do you keep doing it? This entire conversation started when you tried to link the KKK to todays Democrats.
The KKK would not be welcomed by republicans
Whereas the democrats embrace the woke, the antifa, the racists.
I also laughed at the claim that the Democrats "became the party of civil rights". The Democrats became the party of buying votes, and LBJs' assessment of the 64 Civil Rights Act was the truth, not a joke:
"We'll have those ni**ers voting for us for 100 years." Yeah, the Dems are truly the party of noble motives.
(Yes, yes, yes...the Republicans are amoral, dimwitted, avaricious kleptocrats, almost all of them almost all of the time. It is remarkable and very sad that the Dems are so vile I sometimes have to consider voting R.)
Yeah, I've noticed that anything done to get votes from anyone other than white people is 'bribery,' and black people voting for Democrats because of civil rights and Democrats not being insanely racst is them being 'on the plantation.'
"Michael, do you seriously think the KKK would be welcome in today’s Democratic Party? "
CRT advocates think less of minorities than the KKK.
And Duke did not support Trump. Nor did Spencer.
Antifa uses racial slurs more than the Klan. Of course, there are more of them, but antifa is brutally racist if a minority dares to not agree with them.
And Democrats have few problems with them.
Except the KKK weren't crybullies.
No one in the KKK cried when they didn't get their way. Nor was anyone in the KKK promoted because of some dumbass superficial characteristic like if they were homo's or trannies.
Look at this affirmative action crybully:
https://twitter.com/mualphaxi/status/1634327606341369856
'Nor was anyone in the KKK promoted because of some dumbass superficial characteristic'
A dumbass superficial characteristic was, famously, the whole reason the KKK existed.
Why did the Democrats start the KKK?
Because back then they were Conservatives.
I thought they formed to counter the Catholic Yankees who had come to their states to steal what money they still had. As always, the nastiness of one side should not be used to valorize the other.
Anyway, that's what I read long ago. The anti-Black thing? Oh, I'm sure the Klan members threw that in pretty easily. "Oh yeah, we hate them too. Tchyuh! Of course we do."
They were down on Jews, too, weirdly they're somehow mostly remembered for all the black people they tortured and murdered.
'I consider DEI to be the new KKK.'
'Encouraging and facilitiating black peple to go to college is the same as torturing and murdering them.'
"Treating minorities as though they are disabled and incapable toddler-like pets that need the assistance of the mighty White Knight even when they don't ask for it, or outright deny it, is totally not racist."
You sound like someone talking about the NAACP in 1959.
Is that how you view them? Eesh.
That is how they view themselves.
That is your view of how they view themselves, more accurately, and racistly.
What conditions were these DEI efforts supposed to improve?
Good point. Most (all?) "racist hate-crimes" on college campuses turn out to be hoaxes. This has been the case for decades.
This fucking guy.
Prof. Blackman, please stop helping.
When you can't counter the message, attack the messenger.
You think this is Noscitur defending DEI?
I think this is someone choosing to go after he writer rather than anything substantive.
Why would I go after him for something substantive?
Correct: Prof. Blackman is such an inept messenger that he not only fails to advance to message, but affirmatively moves it backwards.
Blackman seems to confuse his own classroom for the lecture circuit
Even if Steinbach ends up leaving Stanford (which I doubt ...), she will be find a cushy position in any of a number of other woke schools ... just ask Meredith Raimondo.
Yes, Meredith Raimondo who did so much to cost her employer >$30M. (Has she left Oberlin?)
Apparently, yes ... to become vice president for student affairs at Oglethorpe University:
https://oberlinreview.org/25680/news/former-dos-meredith-raimondo-leaves-oberlin/
Thanks, didn't know that. Certainly no loss for Oberlin.
Agreed
It’s not the inmates taking over the asylum, it’s the asylum mobilizing the inmates for their own ends, which is worse.
That's been happening for years...
The mission of the university is the discovery, improvement, and dissemination of knowledge. Its domain of inquiry and scrutiny includes all aspects and all values of society. A university faithful to its mission will provide enduring challenges to social values, policies, practices, and institutions. By design and by effect, it is the institution which creates discontent with the existing social arrangements and proposes new ones. In brief, a good university, like Socrates, will be upsetting. .
OK, Josh.
Tell it to DeSantis. Unless you are willing to do that you are full of shit.
As is everyone who proclaims adherence to this statement but defends him.
No, you're full of shit because you don't even claim to care about academic excellence or integrity.
America's excellent educational institutions, which have reason-based integrity, are operated by and for the liberal-libertarian mainstream. Our strongest research and teaching institutions.
Conservatives operate a bunch of low-quality, censorship-shackled, dogma-enforcing schools that flout academic freedom and teach nonsense. Fourth-tier (or unranked) hayseed factories.
Any claim that the people who operate America's best schools should be interested in pointers or help from conservatives in this regard is silly.
Most American unis are shit. It therefore makes sense that they’re run by the uncritical. A third or more such institutions will also close in the coming years, much to the world’s benefit.
More importantly, America’s power and role in the world is rapidly declining. Hence, the power of its liberal-‘progressive’ axis to try to persuade/propagandize to the rest of us (particularly the Global South) that its ethical, legal, and political values and norms are reason-based and evidence based, or somehow ‘track’ developments in the hard sciences, will — thankfully — also wane considerably.
Further, the libtards in control of your — corrupt, non-meritorious — universities, have permitted the Jacobin-totalitarians to take over your faculties and administrative staff. You are complicit in helping to turn your institutions of higher learning into indoctrination centres.
Fortunately, neither libtards nor “progressives” meet replacement rate. Thankfully, your ideologies are evolutionarily inferior memes and your values will die off with you.
The most potent conceptual lens to understand all of this, including all of your liberal and ‘progressive’ bullshit, is the Chinese concept of Baizuo.
The estimate I have seen is HALF will close.
Yet another conservative that hates America.
Patriotism!
Which country am I from, Yankee Doodle dipshit?
Not better, if you are outside the US and obsessed with its partisan politics.
Thanks for your parochial, stupid reply. Unfortunately, given its current status in the globe, most of the world has to know what America's up to... for now.
Welcome to the VC, where S_0's two main contributions are jumping to conclusions over arbitrarily large gaps, and increasing the surplus of straw men.
Just what this comment section needs, another partisan spewer of garbage and mindless insults. Welcome to VC, and straight into mute status.
Coward.
Contrary opinions are dangerous to his fragile personality.
I am not a psychologist, but I'm sure treatises have been written on this common characteristic of so-called "liberals."
I haven't muted either of you two idiots.
Theendoftheleft : {“Which country am I from, Yankee Doodle dipshit?”
I’ve recently argued about aid to Ukraine with someone from both the hard-Right and hard-Left. Both refused any agency to the Ukrainians in their own war – likewise the Europeans and even the Russians. Everything was about the U.S. and therefore worth only contempt and scorn.
Because they both loathe this country. Oh, they may like the neighborhood where they live or an imagined land ruled by someone who thinks like them, but everything else they despise. The schools, the culture, the government, the elections, the rules, the lack of rules, the media, and the unworthy, useless, sleepwalking people themselves. They hate them all, with a contempt rooted deep in their tiny little souls.
It’s pretty amazing: You can change just a few terms and their rants and conspiracy theories are completely interchangeable, hard-Right and hard-Left.
Why would they like your country? Most of the world doesn't.
Do you read international news? Why on earth would anyone believe that the Ukrainians have any real say about this war? Further, Europeans don't want to get involved -- especially since Ukraine will likely lose.
Why, moreover, isn't your president and his son in jail for their misdeeds in Ukraine circa 2014-15?
Theendoftheleft : “Why, moreover, isn’t your president and his son in jail for their misdeeds in Ukraine circa 2014-15?”
I hate the smell of MAGA bullshit in the morning, but it does help classify the grade of loser we face here – particularly given such an exhausted & discredited meme.
Care to give us details on those “misdeeds”, End? An attempt at specificity will entertain us that much more!
Maga???
Most of the world correctly thinks your -- non-compos mentis -- president is a criminal. They know about Burisma. They know about the pressure put on prosecutors. They know how an unqualified crackhead got on to a board of directors.
Keep you head up your ass all you'd like, American fuckwit. Your influence over the world is dwindling daily.
That’s really all you’ve got? I’ve disposed of this trumpish drivel from people brighter than you, but will do so again for practice:
1. Sure, Hunter is unqualified – but the corporations of the world are full of board members who got their position by name or celebrity alone. At the same time Burisma got themselves a Biden, they also put an (equally unqualified) ex-president of Poland on the board, hired a premium accounting firm to do their numbers, and got a well-know financier, Alan Apter, to head the board.
In short, they sought to purchase respectability, and the cost to buy the Biden name was surely the least expensive measure they took. Sordid enuff, but not unusual, much less illegal.
2. Presumably “pressure put on prosecutors” refers to Shokin, so: Sure, Biden pressured to have a corrupt prosecutor fired. He was told to do so by his boss, the President. That was also the position of the State Department & Ambassador to Ukraine, who gave a speech on the subject in Odessa at the same time. It was also the bi-partisan policy of the Senate, and there’s a letter from 2016 from both Republican & Democratic Senators on the topic.
It was also the policy of the European Union, who demanded Shokin go as well. The same position was held by the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. The European Bank of Reconstruction and Development also demanded Shokin’s ouster. For that matter, so did every anti-corruption group in Ukraine itself, where there were street protests against Shokin alone. After he was fired, the Kyiv Post called him one of the most hated men in the country.
Now, given you’re a MAGA clown (pretending to be God alone knows what), you obviously knew none of this, End. Thus I’ve filled in a tiny bit of your bottomless ignorance. Feel free to thank me.
I'm neither American nor in the United States. An inference to the best explanation as to why you insist or imply that I must be a MAGA, or an American, or even pro-American, is your stupidity, American self-obsession, and parochialism.
As more informed people around the world understand, Burisma was owned by Mykola Zlochevsky. U's prosecution office helped (and was helped?) to sabotage an investigation into that corrupt piece of garbage and into Blighty's seizure of his $23m there -- this, despite protests coming from your government, including your Ambassador Pyatt, at the time. Vitaly Kasko's account of what happened in the Ukrainian prosecutor's office (where Shokin was leading/sabotaging an investigation INTO Zlochevsky) is relayed in Oliver Bullough's Moneyland.
So, onboarding Hunter thereafter may have been Burisma's effort to make its name look good, but it certainly made the Bidens look like gangsters - even if you Yankee Doodles refuse to admit it. As the Washington Post stated at the time, 'The appointment of the vice president’s son to a Ukrainian oil board looks nepotistic at best, nefarious at worst'. (WP May 14, 2014.)
Burisma's misdeeds include helping to plunder Ukraine. So, why on earth, post-2014, would anyone in the USA want the VP's son to be associated with it and Zlochevsky?
Given your superficial rationalisation for what transpired, it's clear that you're not actually interested in the truth. (And since you Americans have become completely petulant little shits of late, it's becoming harder to believe you'd provide the same apology had it been a red team VP's son -- not that your colour teams make a lick of difference to me.)
Now that your military can't trick your country's white poor into enlisting and dying for America, why don't you do so and kamikaze yourself for Taiwan? The world will be a far better place without you. Maybe enlist your kids too.
Magaism isn't confined to America, sadly. Who can forget the UK's
own Faragistas and Brextards?
Still waiting for the justification for putting the US president (the current one) "in jail" over Ukraine...it seems to have got lost in translation?
Who the hell would want to enlist to fight for Joe Biden & Kamala Harris (or the people who elected them)?!
We’re making progress!
1. You quack like a MAGA and waddle like a MAGA, so I’m just sticking with the odds here. But – hey – whatever you claim to be is fine with me. Gender fluidity ain’t got nuthing on internet fluidity.
2. You (sensibly) abandon the charge Hunter’s hire was corruption, settling on the reasonable charge it made the Bidens look bad. Of course you lard that up with a lot of bullshit about gangsters, but that’s just how MAGA-types roll.
3. Abandoned altogether is the ludicrous drivel about Shokin – another wise choice. That argument wasn’t just bad, but comically pathetic.
With a few more exchanges, I feel like I could made a rational thinking human being out of you, all your incoherent spittle-spraying rants notwithstanding…
GRB, when did I abandon any such claim? Your mentally unsound president and his son are criminals. You went after Shokin whilst protecting Z, and then Hunter made millions from Z’s company. No one in the rest of the world believes your bullshit about the Bidens. Furthermore, your government, and your country, is evil.
What’s your plan when all the MAGA-far right in the USA reach a breaking point and decide to come for you and your family? Do you think you’re going to be able to safely flee to elsewhere in the West? Do you know what we’re going to do to you if you show up?
"Yet another conservative that hates America.
Patriotism!"
I thought criticizing America was the height of patriotism? Or did that end AGAIN on 1/20/21?
I mean I would be upset if Josh Blackman was my professor. A guy who went to a mid tier school, never practiced law, and spends his time being an obnoxious and trollish self-promoter would annoy me as a student hoping to learn how to be a lawyer.
While I cannot disagree with anything that you wrote, why do you let him troll you?
For the same reason that a moth is attracted to flames, Don Nico.
Because it has a ludicrously small brain and cannot cope with variations from an environment that its ancestors evolved in?
Don fish in a barrel are not trolling the dude with the gun.
Geez, you make him sound like the "Dr." Fauci of the legal profession!
WTF does DeSantis have to do with this?
Why can’t y’all just condemn this crap as a stand alone event? Is it really that hard to criticize your own side when it screws up?
I agree with this point about whattabiutism.
Please note and apply it to your own posts as well.
If this was a joke, well played.
The remarkable thing about Sarcastro is that you just can't tell.
I think we can criticise the hysterical over-reaction to the incident as well as the incident.
Changing the subject to launch an attack is a standard deflection and distraction tactic.
People like bernard11 have already decided they’ll defend evil, distract when they can’t defend directly, and turn a blind eye and offer disclaimers when it inevitably escalates to something they can’t stomach.
Because Josh, and others here, pretend to be champions of free inquiry, free expression, and like to raise hell about crap like this, but are notably silent when someone on their side does the same or worse.
Look, this was some assholes acting like assholes. Is that enough of a condemnation for you? What it was not is what the Conspirators seem determined to make it - critical event in American legal history.
Look, I've never defended this shit except a couple of times when I thought the facts were being seriously misrepresented. But I'm tired of being asked to "condemn" things every time Josh or Eugene decides to write one of these posts.
IMO DeSantis is a far greater threat to free inquiry than a bunch of obnoxious law students at Stanford, but we hear no criticism of him. Guess he might get to be President, and it wouldn't look good on their resumes.
With DeSantis are you talking about school libraries or are you talking about punishing entities like Disney and the Rays?
I agree with you as to punishing corporations for their speech. I disagree as to the books. There’s no book banning happening over there.
There’s no book banning happening over there.
Yes there is. And even if you want to argue that it's merely the selection of "appropriate" books you still have to look at everything that's deemed inappropriate, not just point at a few reasonable examples.
But it's mostly his attacks on the universities I was referring to.
Please tell us which of these books have been banned. Which ones can you not buy or own in Florida?
There’s no banning. It’s trying to match content with age. And I’m not sure there’s any age group for which a book suggesting that it’s fine for a group of kids to masturbate into a Mountain Dew bottle should be stocked in a school library. Or a book in which an under aged kid watches porn and marvels at the amount of public hair and dick sizes.
If you want to argue that there is political tilt, I don’t know so I won’t argue but I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that was true.
https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-bookstores-react-to-floridas-banned-books-14296052
Can you point to which books in the list match your descriptions, please?
Bevis,
You are doing exactly what I pointed out was dumb.
Look, suppose I give you a list of fifty books that I say shouldn't be in the school library. You argue that there are many worthwhile books on the list and that some of them seem to have been put there for ideological rather than educational reasons.
Does it make sense for me to say, "Yeah, but a handful really are awful."
Of course not.
No, we don't need books "in which an under aged kid watches porn and marvels at the amount of public hair and dick sizes." But the existence of those is no excuse to keep others out. It really is just a cover story for what they are doing.
We agree on this bernard. Mostly anyway. I don’t think that the books should be considered bad just because the Bible thumpers don’t like them. My religious mother let, hell, encouraged me to read several of those books when I was 12+ because she wanted me to read good stuff and expand my mind.
But you seem to blame DeSantis for trying, and I don’t see how he can not try.
Trying to do what?
Book bans you agree with are still book bans.
#KissingDeSantAss
I’ll be more explicit. You are correct. Defending a state governor for punishing entities within his/her state because they expressed a political opinion contrary to the governor’s is bullshit.
These DIE (discrimination, incompetence, and envy) grifters are the worst pieces of garbage on campus these days. They are almost all uneducable political partisans (many or most have education degrees and are barely literate) who care nothing about education, and everything about power, and they are doing a damn good job of destroying higher education in America. Fire this troglodytic maggot Steinbach and everyone else who works in the DIE grift, and the world will be a tad less unpleasant.
Conservatives, who prefer and operate shitty schools soaked in bigotry and superstition, lack self-awareness and smarts if they offer tips to those who operate America's strongest research and teaching institutions.
You should be focusing on praying for a Rapture, which is about the only thing that could enable conservatives from continuing to be routed by their betters in the culture war that is improving America.
Good luck with that, clinger.
America's most successful institutions are run by rapacious capitalists with massive endowments; they mouth liberal and progressive discourses, but operate in complete variance with those espoused values -- including vis-a-vis hiring.
Once the American political right comes to appreciate the social constructivity of morality and political values, how their precious legal and social institutions have been hijacked to advance ulterior values by morons who pretend to be credible 'social engineers', and how you dump millions of poor into your country as cheap unskilled labour, they are literally going to barbeque you.
Some institutions not run by these horrid capitalists:
Hoover Dam.
Space Race.
The Internet.
You don’t know what you are talking about.
Also no one is going to barbecue liberals. No one is ever as bloodthirsty and impotent as a keyboard revolutionary.
Is that the best you can do, American ignoramus?
Hoover Dam.
Once again Sark shows how out of touch he is with reality. While the Hoover dam is a testament to what engineering can accomplish it is also a classic example of just because we can do something doesn't mean we should do it. Both the Glen Canyon Dam and the Hoover Dam are ecological disasters that are headed to oblivion. Silting upriver of both dams will eventually make both of them useless but likely not before the water levels drop so much the flow will not be able to sustain production of electricity. Not to mention how both dams have allowed unbridled development in the Southwest desert which is not collapsing under its own weight. Already CA and AZ are duking it out over how to split up the decreasing amount of water the Hoover dam is capable of providing. There is not a happy ending to this story.
Space Race.
Only need two words for this one, Elon Musk.
The Internet.
While I agnostic on the topic the disaster of spreading political arguments is dwarfed by the amount of porn carried by the internet.
I engage with lots of dumb stuff. But this is a profoundly dumb comment. Too dumb to engage with.
The irony being that your comment involves (1) a RACE between a capitalist country and a communist one and (2) the dubious taking of credit for the entire internet, as if it was solely an American institution.
The world will be a much better place once morons like yourself get Anders Breiviked by the American right. Do you think your kids will taste better with Tennessee BBQ sauce or the Texas variety?
Dunno your plan here, but you're muted, chief, so go off!
One more RW idiot shows up. Just what the site needs.
Shouldn't you be in an oven?
What are the odds the Duncan-fluffer “free speech” warriors are going to have any criticism of a Trump judge trying to keep public hearing dates secret in case of national importance so no one will show up to protest?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/03/11/texas-abortion-pill-hearing-kacsmaryk/
I predict Blackman ignores or praises this wholly improper conduct.
Eugene could address it…but will probably engage in a lot of equivocating BS about whether it is improper (it is).
But it sort of confirms what we knew all along: the new right-wing judges want to exercise immense power without protest or criticism.
So, as per usual, the only thing that you leftist tards have to say is that right-wing judges are hypocritical in not completely adhering to their standards of jurisprudence, free speech, etc. Since, however, your only standard is, if it suits my current policy preferences, it's legal, constitutional, etc., and, if it doesn't, it's not (e.g. if it helps deadbeats, criminals, perverts, and baby-killers, it's good, otherwise not), your critique of others engaging in such actions is just as hypocritical as the supposed hypocricy of the targets of your critique.
Saving the rule of law and the quality of higher education from half-wits like you and other left-wing cretins will be a long slog, and probably not a successful one. But it's always better to die with one's boots on.
This was a lot of words to say: I have no actual defense to this wholly inappropriate judicial conduct. Thanks.
Also I don’t think right wingers are hypocrites. I think they’re whiny assholes who do shitty things and demand to be praised for it and cry when they’re not. That’s literally all there is to the movement.
Your sole criterion for acceptable judicial conduct is, does it support my particular political positions. You have no basis for criticizing any judicial action other than that you think it's bad policy. You are seemingly completely ignorant of the character of the rule of law. I'm constantly amazed at the profound lack of self-awareness of the contemporary left.
“Your sole criterion for acceptable judicial conduct is, does it support my particular political positions.”
In this instance the issue is trying to avoid the public’s appearance at a proceeding. That’s bad no matter which judge does it.
“You have no basis for criticizing any judicial action other than that you think it’s bad policy.”
I mean judicial decision-making is policy making so that’s a pretty good basis to criticize something!
“ You are seemingly completely ignorant of the character of the rule of law.”
I am completely aware of it as a philosophical concept, but I reject it as reified thing. In law school they gave us all these Alito opinions about standing and how you need concrete harms. Then fast-forward a few years and Alito is claiming there was standing in California v Texas and his questions at oral argument in the loan case indicate he’ll find standing too. Law is fake as hell. If Alito doesn’t believe in it, I don’t see why I should.
Plus keep in mind we are also discussing a case where a judge is probably going to try and ban an approved drug nationwide based on crackpot theories. The rule of law is fake. If it was real, the suit in front of Kacsmaryk would have been dismissed by now.
“ I’m constantly amazed at the profound lack of self-awareness of the contemporary left.”
Can you name a “liberal” decision you think is legally correct? If you can’t then it’s probably you who have the self-awareness problem.
First, I agree with your dissatisfaction with Kacsmaryk’s action in this case. There is no reason to treat this case differently than any other. And, second, I’m perfectly happy with what used to be understood as liberal interpretations of first amendment rights to freedom of speech, press, etc. In fact, I consider myself a (classical) liberal, and my last book was a defense of classical liberalism from within the context of an argument about moral/value pluralism
At the same time, I am a philosophy professor and not an attorney (though my field is moral, political, and legal philosophy). So, as you might guess, my primary concern with the Stanford incident is that it represents another example of the illiberalism of the contemporary academic left. These are people who are openly opposed to free speech, and they are my colleagues, which disappoints me to no end.
You're a big fan of the free speech standards (and academic freedom) on conservative-controlled campuses, like most bigoted right-wingers?
You’re a big fan of trolling conservatives as superstitious irrational bigots. However, your entire libtarded (American-led) political cult presumes, or at least presents itself as believing in, the equality of all/most cultures, the viability of multiculturalism, and your capacity to craft a new culture altogether. This notion of cultural equality forms the core of your religion, despite it’s obvious falsity.
Indeed, your politico-religious dogma is so stupid that you don’t really believe its implications yourself — yet you cannot see past it or overcome it generally. Somehow, to your minds, the things that are garbage about American Christian conservative culture simply can’t be true of other cultures; hence why any criticism of them is labelled a ‘phobia’ — save for a given culture’s treatment of women or homosexuals. (Then, and basically only then, is cultural critique considered to be fair game.)
We in the rest of the world can, in turn, see how shit your American culture is.
Further, your stupid, ignorant, false belief in the equality of cultures, and in multiculturalism, has no future. The demographic, economic, and political future of the world — East Asia, particularly, but also Africa and South America — doesn’t believe your libtarded bullshit at all. Indeed, they correctly reject it as white western imperialist bullshit. No one is multiculting their countries except for Western ones that fail to meet replacement rate.
You are completely finished and your inferior value system will die off with you. Your ‘liberal’ and ‘progressive’ beliefs are also just as much superstitious mumbo jumbo as the American conservatives’; it’s just that YOU, despite your appeals to reason and empirical evidence, ought to know better, but simply lack the brains to be able to see it.
That's quite a soapbox you're on there, THEEND. Please amuse us further!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14OK8_Cpiz0
Well put.
compare (source):
Because wokeism is based on demonstrable lies, it can only survive if people are prevented from telling the truth. It is inherently incompatible with open inquiry. Wherever there is wokeism—and it is metastasizing to every major institution in our society—there is censorship, intimidation, and groupthink.
I've known a few philosophy profs, and none of them would ever use the idiotic phrase "leftist tards." Methinks you are full of shit.
You may be disregarding Wheaton, Hillsdale, Ouachita Baptist, Franciscan, Kings, Cedarbrook, Grove City, Regent, Liberty, and others like them.
Well if they don’t, they should.
Right. Call a spade a spade.
Whereas it is entirely unsurprising when one of you two write it.
Please, won't anybody whatabouts the whatabouts?
By your sad attempt to change the topic, I conclude you agree with the DIE zealotry at Stanford but realize the Maoists went too far for pubic opinion to cover their illiberal leftism.
Oh wise one where were you when every time Trump was threatened with legal consequences all the commenters here started ranting about Clinton's e-mails?
Whataboutism is good actually. Identifying inconsistencies in an approach to various things is useful. And once I’m proven correct that the right will ignore this while still crying about Duncan, it will be less about whataboutism and further evidence of their fake caring about free speech and appropriate behavior.
Why do you go so far out of your way to be an asshole all the time?
There's a perfectly good open thread every Thursday where you can post whatever you want and see if people agree with you. A totally off-topic rant that is motivated only by your partisan feelings is a shitty thing to inflict on the rest of us. When you follow that up with "ahah, if I ignore the people agreeing with me here, then the lack of people falling in line with my rant on my arbitrary demand with me PROVES how evil conservatives are", then ... well ... we're going to be pretty convinced that you are projecting when you write things like this:
Hey guess what. I was right. See Blackman’s post.
And this is a comments section where people routinely advocate mass murder, say racist and bigoted things, or make fun of victims of heinous acts or deny the existence of historical atrocities. Me pointing out that they suck is a necessary corrective.
The odds of them doing so are higher than the odds that you’ll criticize a rogue DEI Dean. Fuckin’ hypocrite.
Fix yourself before you criticize others for the same thing that you don’t even know that they’re doing.
Bevis loves free speech he also loves telling others what they can and can't criticise.
They can criticize all they want. Shouting down someone’s free speech isn’t criticism.
'Fix yourself before you criticize others' ain't that.
Missed again. Explain how using your speech to stop someone else from speaking is a valid way to use speech.
Explain how ‘fix yourself before you criticize others,’ which is what I was responding to, is that.
It’s not hypocrisy if I don’t view them in the same category of harm.
Some administrator failed to control snotty students? Happens a lot. Don’t care. Has zero effect on the judges ability to get his message out.
A judge trying to keep a hearing secret in a major case with national implications? Extremely bad. Exercising judicial power in secret is way way worse than some snotty students and incompetent admins. How do you still not get this?
"Some administrator failed to control snotty students? Happens a lot. Don’t care."
Don't tase me bro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
For people who claim to be quivering in terror at the idea that some shouty kids represent the new rise of fascism, you sure love some jackbooted thuggery.
She didn’t fail to control it. She egged it on.
Wrong. Read more sources.
Hey, dummy, she had a prepared speech that she printed in advance that she planned in advance to read when things blew up. A speech in which she told the judge she thinks he’s an asshole.
She knew what was coming and threw gas on the fire, and knew in advance that she’d be able to do so.
The entirety of her speech is included in Lat’s post. Maybe you should start with reading ONE source. You’re not even trying, which is why you can’t defend this or DEI generally with any specifics. You just don’t want to know.
The dean declined to do her job. That's her choice. But she should be replaced by someone more willing or able to uphold the school's purported values.
What are the odds anyone takes you seriously on anything? You’ve shown everyone that you only pretend to believe in such principles so you can attack others for not living up to your pretend standards.
We are all familiar with Alinsky rule #4 by now. No one needs to play that game.
“What are the odds anyone takes you seriously on anything?”
Very good.
"so no one will show up to protest? "
We decide cases based on protests now? I thought public opinion is supposed to be completely irrelevant to how a judge rules.
"improper (it is)"
Is it? Is there a rule about how much public notice is required before an interlocutory hearing? The lawyers had notice.
No. But the public is presumed to have access to proceedings. And there is literally no reason, none, to try to hide this information other than the fact you’re worried people might scrutinize you for your
Judging. Judging a public act and a Punic service that the public gets to see. It Is absolutely improper to set dates in a case and hide them so no one including press will show up. The lawyers were subject to a gag order essentially in a case where no secrecy was warranted.
"absolutely improper"
According to you, you already hate him. You admit there is no rule about public notice. So, it can't be "absolutely improper" in the absence of a rule or law he broke.
There is a public right of access to hearings. Guaranteed by the first amendment. Trying to get around the public appearing by scheduling games is improper. Not every decision left to the judge’s discretion is proper if it is exercised poorly. They can abuse their discretion.
It’s not technically against the rules to for a judge to order a 60 day discovery period in a medical malpractice case with no continuances either. But it would absolutely be improper.
You’re just reflexively defending it because I’m saying it and you’re contemptuous of the public interest here.
Intentionally making it more difficult for the public to attend a public hearing is, indeed, bad. Not anything he should be impeached over, and certainly not as bad as what happened at Stanford, but nevertheless bad.
0certainly not as bad as what happened at Stanford”
Heckling a judge during non judicial activities is not nearly as bad as a judge trying to conceal the exercise of judicial power in a case with profound practical and constitutional implications for the entire country. Like it’s not even comparable which is worse.
Nice. Congratulations!
Juice hater who loves squeeze horror stories has opinions.
It’s the folly of youth that Gen Z students don’t realize that while heckling a reactionary asshole
judge might feel good in the moment, they’re subjecting terminally online Gen X and Millennials to endless insufferable posts from David Lat, Josh Blackman, and Zillow Ed Whelan followed by even more insufferable speeches from Jim Ho and Sam Alito.
To paraphrase Helen Lovejoy: won’t someone think of the olds?!?
It's also the case that universities that hire and admit SFBs tend to have these sorts of recurrent problems. You create special programs so that you can hire morons, and you let morons into the university as students, and then you get situations like this, where the animals run the zoo.
I mean it’s a law school. Having morons is inevitable.
As you prove with every comment.
Huh. That was actually vaguely clever. Good for you.
Awesome professor with an attitude like this about all these shot for brains students.
I think from a rhetorical standpoint, this blog post fails. He sets up the question, are the benefits of DEI offices worth the cost. That is, this is a classic cost-benefit analysis.
But from there, he goes badly wrong. He says that instead of assessing the benefits, we can just "assume" the benefits. I guess he might think this move is sort of like the classic legal concession, "assuming your facts are true, there is no cause of action."
But it is not. If you assume the benefits, you lose.
As long as we are "assuming" benefits, why not assume benefits that are "worth the squeeze"???
Or are we going to assume benefits that aren't "worth the squeeze"? Then this isn't really a concession at all. This isn't saying, "well, assuming that your alleged facts are true" this is instead "we are going to assume that your facts aren't the persuasive." That isn't a concession.
In any case, we can see that if we are assuming benefits, the ultimate answer to the cost-benefit question arises based on the level of benefit that is assumed.
The bottom-line. If you are going to engage in cost-benefit analysis, you can't actually assume either costs or benefits. Instead, you must actually measure them.
For that reason, this blog post fails. Blackman tried, but his attempt to transplant a logical strategy commonly and validly used in law to cost-benefit analysis fails from a logical standpoint.
You are correct. What he should have said is that there are no benefits to the DIE grift, that it is a cancer that is destroying higher education, and that we shouldn't give the benefit of the doubt to any of these scumbags who are involved in it (i.e., they should all be fired immediately). That would have also shortened the post, which would have been a good thing.
You must be a joy at faculty meetings.
Assuming he's actually on a faculty.
And who are you? Just another anonymous sodomitical imbecile here to make a fool of yourself, I assume.
Sodomitical! Talk about autological!
I don't know about the sodomitical part. Actually, I'm a philosophy professor too. What a coincidence!
I am so popular that other universities in my region request that I make guest appearances at their facult senate meetings. The DIE grifters especially appreciate my unique perspective on their contributions to university education.
You come across int eh Internet as judgmental, closed minded, insulting, and hubristic in the breadth to which your expertise applies.
I really hope that’s not you in real life, if only for the sake of your students and colleagues.
How do you propose to measure the costs and benefits? The fields being affected is dense with confounding causes, and the kind of people who are invested in the ideology do not agree with the general public about which aspects of incidents like this one are costs versus benefits -- see the comments above.
It’s not a cost benefit post, it’s just an attack appealing to Josh Blackman’s authority to declare a buncha ipse dixits.
It's not Blackman's cost benefit analysis that's in question. It's the universities that have succumbed to moral panic and are undermining their core mission.
From personal experience, I have deep sympathy for “fails” of this sort, and sincerely hope josh is not deeply wounded by the frankness of this comment. He seems to me a bird of a feather, and I hope he can appreciate there are those here who look on with sincere compassion.
Is this a joke? Either way it's the post of the day!
People can draw their own conclusions on whether DIE juice is worth the squeeze. I'll just note something....a good number of DIE people seem to be getting caught up in tech layoffs. If they produced something of actual value for these companies, they'd be retained. They are not; hence, they are shown the door.
Academia might take a long time to figure out whether the juice is worth the squeeze. Meanwhile, private industry is sorting this out as they always do; unproductive things are cut quickly.
Schools are not private industry, and are not supposed to be. So I don’t know why you think this analogy should hold.
I also think what Silicon Valley lays off isn’t as you assume established to be a wise triumph of creative destruction. They’re really dumb over there a lot of the time.
"Schools are not private industry,..."
Unless they are state run institutions they are.
Thought you were out and about.
Not everything that isn’t government owned exists only to maximize profits.
If they were the case, these schools would have spent their endowments. Please stop beclowning yourself.
Um that’s a pretty dumb excluded middle you are trying.
They’re really dumb over there a lot of the time.
I hadn't noticed. 🙂
So what is it, DEI or DIE? Is it DEI, a god or DIE which should in fact die?
The most important part of the Stanford débâcle is the comment:
“If enough of these kids get into the legal profession, the rule of law will descend into barbarism.”
That is our future.
The 1st Amendment is going to be gutted by Leftist judicial decree.
A future the Left longs for. The Left started in The Reign of Terror and has been trying to 200 years to get back there.
Barbarism!!!
BARBARISM!
No....BARBARISM!!!! 😛
BA-BA-BA BA-BA BARISM
'This protest was a direct byproduct of what students have learned for years.'
Lame. Students have been disrupting and protesting for decades, they never needed a DEI framework to justify it before.
"Students"?
Did I disturb a nap?
This was back in 1969 -- students have been used as useful idiots for over 50 years.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sc0VIRY4W2E
See? Nasty reactionaries have been railing aganst De Kidz since forever.
Forever is not before you were born.
FOREVER'S GONNA LAST TONIGHT
Like I posted above 'don't tase me bro'. Once again Florida is leading the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
From twitter:
“The pervasive and at best reckless misrepresentations of what an untenured administrator did are so bad. But they’re positively Orwellian when presented as part of a self-righteous defense of academic rigor.”
What misrepresentations? You realize the episode is on video, right?
FIRE cut off the transcript.
The link says it was updated yesterday, but it clearly includes everything she said. If you saw what it looked like before, I’d be interested to see it—although since the bad parts are heavily weighted towards the end, I’m not sure how cutting it off could have done anything but benefited her.
It was updated yesterday because as originally printed it created a quite false narrative. One that most on here still seem to be running with.
Julian Davis Mortenson has a pretty different take on the whole thing. Im not sure I buy her take, but I do think the argument here about the academic mission is papering over a lot for some cheap heat.
I agree with you that Prof. Mortenson (who appears to be a man?) is doing somersaults to excuse the indefensible.
The vidoe speaks for itself, as does the transcript.
Anyway, always great to see the free-speech-absolutist personal-feedom-loving big-goverment-hating state-power-distrusting elite-despising the-legal-system-is-broken-proclaimers will-take-up-arms-against-tyranny types celebrating, demanding, exhorting the full might and majesty of the establishment being used to crush a bunch of rowdy kids who were mean to a federal judge.
No. They weren’t mean. They shouting him down. They blocked HIS freedom of speech. Stopping others from speaking is NOT free speech.
So, THEY should have been prevented from speaking to allow him to speak, which is stopping others from speaking, which is NOT feee speech.
Sadly, they're not "kids".
They appear to have violated the school's rules, so punishing them for doing so really shouldn't be problematic.
Let's hope the punishment fits the rule-breaking, rather than the atrocity of the ages as it's being portrayed here.
"I'm sure the student who asked this question thought he"
Another ally there to mansplain.
Because me and many people in this administration do absolutely believe in free speech.
How does one rise to the level of Associate Dean at a law school on par with that of Stanford, if one incorrectly uses the object pronoun "me" instead of the correct subject pronoun "I"?
DEI of course.
Expecting people to use "proper" English is racist. Or so they say.
Great points to be made at a blog that caters to illiterate, half-educated bigots.
OK one more time for the libturds who never seem to get it. Here is the cost/benefit analysis. Taxpayers are not happy their tax dollars are going to DEI libturds who produce nothing but take much.
'Don't 'promote diversity and equality' me bro!'
"Is the DEI juice worth the squeeze?"
Since the actual goals of the individuals in charge of DEI are hatred and division, they can plainly see their success in front of them. Mission accomplished: they’ve made life worse for Americans.
And they cashed in, despite having zero useful skills and despite many of them appearing to be like escapees from freak shows or insane asylums.
My favorite part of the post is when Prof. Blackman describes Judge Duncan as a "luminary."
One of the most prominent stars in the fading constellation Bigotus Obsoletus.
Former Prof. Ann Althouse seems to disagree with Prof. Josh Blackman (and Prof. Eugene Volokh).
The most important point, of course, is that Judge Duncan is a bigot and that his fans are gay-bashing, race-targeted voter-suppressing low-lifes. (Well, that and the point that these bigots and this bigoty are no problem the modern American culture war is not solving.)
There is no one more bigoted in the US today then White SJW's, black BLMer's, and their Jew masters.
AND THEIR JEW MASTERS, EVERYONE *APPLAUSE CHEERS WHISTLES*
You can be against the mafia and that doesn't mean you are anti-Italian because Italians were overrepresented in organized crime. You can be against DIE and Cultural Marxism (and even central banks, globalism, and Ukraine) and just because the proponents and academic leaders who are Jewish are more than 2% of the movement (greater than % of Jews in America) and not be antisemitic. If you target Jews and not the actual movements then you are. But that isn't how the game is played by the left.
Which side of the line would you say BravoCharlieDelta’s obersvation falls on?
When you’re kind points out the over-representation of White people in certain areas (e.g. intelligence, hard work, merit, being on time, art, responsibility, natural families, and moral behavior), do you squawk and call everyone a bigot?
Or do you just reserve that for when normal people point out the over-representation of Jews in certain areas (e.g. Marxism, White genocide, banking, pornography, Illegal migrant invasions, LBGTQP activism, BLM, family destruction, and child sacrifices)?
Racism AND anti-semitism. The crowd goes wild.
. . . and a few law deans start wondering whether they will need to issue more apologies soon.
You're going to have to explain this to me. The rest of the world sees American SJWs and the BLMs as being anti-Zio, if not also anti-Jew. Are you saying that that is nonetheless part of the Jews' master plan?
Here I thought that American Jews were just a bunch of hypocritical, obnoxious fucking morons that everyone in the world rightfully despises. But it turns out, on your view, that making themselves so was really their plan all along? Cunning!!! Still, on your view, what's the Jewish long-game once the whites are no longer around and Israel, their Jew homeland, is destroyed? To have the BLM folks heed to their every word? That seems... doubtful...
Wake the fuck up: Your Anglo elites (1) handed power (in government and the academy) over to the Jewish suicide cult years/decades ago and (2) fully supported mass immigration. This happened in every Anglo country without Jew influence/power. Your Anglo elites (not the poor whites) are wholly to blame for this state of affairs/decay.
And don't you give me your American DEI bullshit about 'whites'. How DARE you include the Slavs, the Irish, or the Southeastern Europeans as being equal to the Germanic peoples in intelligence, technological output, art, or anything else.
The rest of the world APART from the Jews, the Slavs, the Irish, or the Southeastern Europeans.
*WHOOPS AIR HORNS STANDING OVATION*
How do you say "Xi Jinping looks like Winnie the Pooh" in Mandarin?
“Xi Jinping looks like Winnie the Pooh in Mandarin."
Nice!
Nope. Not everyone. Prof. Bernstein, for example, will avoid this point (right-wing antisemitism) as strenuously as Prof. Volokh avoids discussions involving Gov. DeSantis, un-American insurrectionist John Eastman, or this blog's longstanding record of viewpoint-driven, partisan censorship.
Antisemites suck. Regardless of whether they're leftwing or rightwing. It's an obvious point, and I'm pretty sure I've seen Prof. Bernstein make it on various occasions.
Can anyone actually define the word salad of Diversity, Inclusion and Equity? No? Ok its tribal quotas...and free smearing of tribes you don't like which are "white" whatever "white" is. Loser liberal art majors screaming for some never-ending grievance and special treatment based on real or imagined sunk costs. People with low self-esteem, inferiority complexes who can use some bullshit terms to now get a free pass to bully other folks. It is just cultural marxism wrapped up in meaningless words.
"Can anyone actually define the word salad of Diversity, Inclusion and Equity? No? Ok its tribal quotas"
Its rent seekers, fixed that for you.
DIE graduates. lmao at least the people who deserve it the most got burned by SVB. Couldn't happen to woker bunch of woketards.
Lol you'll label anything as 'woke' even libertarian crtypto-bro venture capitalists.
Weird how you don't know anything about who the head of risk assessment was, but you're still here commenting as if you did.
Weird.
wokewokewokewokewoke
I assume you stick your fingers in your ears when you yell that? When I was a kid, it was "neener, neener!". I guess the point is the same, drowning out something you don't want to hear.
Drowning it out? It's what the racist anti-semite homophobe said, did I miss something?
Do you seriously think the bank's Risk Committee would have just sat there for nine months doing nothing, with no one managing risk at the bank during that entire time?
You must have a rather low opinion of banking regulators...
“In brief, a good university, like Socrates, will be upsetting. . .”
You know what else would make a university more like Socrates? Not requiring payment from its students.
But...but...how would they get by? You know, feed the faculty and create safe homes for the students? I mean, it's not like they're sitting on piles of wealth or anything.
One might ask a similar question about the South Texas College of Law: is getting a degree from that august institution "worth the squeeze"? The most recently-available employment data suggests that it may not be.
Right, since the Ivy educated bunch has done such a bang up job over the last 100 years.
This is such a chickenshit point.
Not everyone can start at the top.
Thanks to Rev. Kirkland, I got to see the full video of the administrator's speech.
She took several minute to say that she believed in free speech for this horrible, horrible oppressor judge even though his very presence was stirring up division in the community.
This may be what the President of Stanford, and the Dean, meant when they said that administrators had behaved inappropriately.
"Ain't That a Kick in the Head?" as Dean Martin[ez] might put it.
I was with you until the very end. Frankly, the personal views of the individuals employed in the DEI office aren't the university's buisness nor should they matter. The university should just make clear what their view is on such matters and fire anyone who undermines it. Whether or not the employees agree is neither here nor there as long as they carry out their jobs appropriately?
The best thing to come out of DEI departments has been this juicy metaphor. And I say that as a pro-DEI woke libtard.
Hiring a Director of DEI causes four problems.
1. It absolves everyone else of responsibility. We don’t have Directors of Academic Freedom or Directors of Civility & Respect. They’re principles that the community as a whole should embody.
2. By vesting the communication and resolution process in authority figures as though it were an arbitration proceeding, DEI infrastructure encourages an adversarial culture of grievance and tattling rather than an empathetic one of self-confidence and mutual accommodation.
3. Departments come with budgets, and budgets have to be justified. It benefits DEI beaurocracies for tensions to escalate into incidents that become problems for the DEI administrators to “solve.” A well-adjusted student body (or workforce or whatever) wouldn’t need a Director of DEI. They’re incentivized to stir the pot (as we saw at Stanford, Yale, Hamline, and elsewhere).
4. Once you have a DEI line item in your budget and you start to realize it’s causing more problems than it’s solving, it’s hard to defund or eliminate without being accused of abandoning your commitment. The existence of the department becomes a symbol of virtue. You’re stuck.
So please, anyone with power, find a way to imbue your organization with a commitment to Diversity & Inclusion in some way other than creating dedicated DEI staff positions. Don’t just take my word for it, the University of Michigan released the results of an internal audit showing that all the measures they were hoping would improve actually got worse after they set up their DEI apparatus.
https://report.dei.umich.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/integrative-report.pdf
What a disappointment, Randal, I had no idea you were such a racist.
/sarc
For a very similar process, see any city with a "Homelessness Czar" or equivalent. Multnomah County convened a commission to determine what it would take to deal with homelessness, and they came up with a figure of several BILLIONS-WITH-A-B. FOR A COUNTY!
Lots of steps that are almost certain to increase the number of homeless and commissions, LOTS of commissions, to assess their "progress".
Similar processes and almost exactly the same people grifting off both.
Segregation was good. The multicult is an obvious failure. Non-Whites are simply intellectually incapable of abiding by the rules of civilization. Let non-Whites have the culture they want and leave White people alone to have the culture they've built.
The reason I tend not to reply to posters like you is that I generally have them muted, which I shall do in your case.
If I died and some conservative assholes decided to protest my funeral by screaming about god hating fags, y'all wouldn't bat an eye, and would come out in defense of it even.
But someone says some mean things about conservatives lawyers, and suddenly it's the end of the world if you hear a cross word.
So I'll have to beg pardon, but y'all made your bed. Lay in it.
They could have said mean things about him all day long, and it wouldn't have been a big deal if they hadn't been doing it while he was talking, to interrupt him.
I'm sure you're smart enough to understand the difference between shouting your rage in private, and doing it in the face of somebody who's trying to talk, and was even invited to talk.
The problem isn't the insult, it's the effort to keep the people who were there to listen to him from hearing him.
I mean, sure, it's also a problem for the idiots themselves, who are going to come out of the university thinking they can win arguments in court by shouting down the judge. That's really going to help their careers...
Actually, it’s the other way around. The left screamed bloody murder when that bunch of yahoos protested funerals and they literally tried to have them shut down via the courts.
Does Spock have a beard in the universe you live in?
So, wait, is 'protesting' funerals okay, but protesting public meetings with living federal judges not okay?
Let’s see the Phelpses try to *disrupt* a funeral service by talking over the speakers/clergy, and see where that gets them.
They sure wouldn’t have the Supreme Court’s backing: “The speech was indeed planned to coincide with Matthew Snyder’s funeral, but did not itself disrupt that funeral…”
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/562/443/
I mean, they're literally trying to send the poor person TO HELL which is presumably worse than a talk being cancelled. Maybe burying a loved one while hateful creeps are yelling homophobic slurs takes more fortitude than standing up and speaking while a bunch of kids are yelling about how much they hate your jurisprudence. Not saying *either* are easy, mind you.
Again, who cares about the judge’s feelings? I stipulate that he’s Judge Jeffeys 2.0 and has no feelings worth respecting.
Even if the judge deserves this incident, does the university? The President of the institution didn’t seem to think so. And did the audience who came to hear the speech deserve it?
Far better not to invite him at all than have an incident like that.
Again, the Phelpses meet with disgust and opposition across the ideological spectrum.
The only legal method to deal with them has been blocked by the Supreme Court 8-1, with all the liberals joining the 8. Alito, a conservative, was the dissenter.
But if the Phelpses actually disrupted the service – say by shouting down the funeral sermon – the Supreme Court won’t protect them.
Alito basically doesn’t believe in free speech. From Bong Hits 4 Jesus:
Alito concluded that an exception must be made to the First Amendment free speech guarantee to protect the students; since according to Alito, advocating illegal drugs possibly leads to violence.
Fine, but the other conservatives, plus *all* the liberals, were for the Phelps' right to picket funerals.
Is anyone even arguing that the kids weren't legally in the wrong? Presumably what they were doing was ethically correct, to them. Conservatives go absolutely hog-wild about stuff like this, most reasonable people shrug, remember when they were young and dumb enough to get in trouble for something they believed in. No body got hurt, the right got ammo, but the right generates its own ammo so it always has a surplus, the kids will probaly be reprimanded, no doubt too lightly for the right. Hey ho.
As another poster says, hypothetical hypocrisy is the worst.
Meet the Patriot Guard Riders, a group founded at an American Legion post and dedicated, on a nonpartisan basis, to honoring fallen soldiers, police and firemen and protect their funerals from harassment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Guard_Riders
The only political test for membership is “a deep respect for those who serve our country,” *including fallen police officers,* which is a stereotypical rightist position and would seem to exclude at least some leftists (ACAB!).
These patriot riders are the best defense against the NAACP-award-winning Phelps and his family.
So, did y'all forget, or just never know that Westboro Baptists protested the funerals of gay folk that died form AIDS for years and years (with no one caring) before they pivotted to protesting soldier's funerals (which is what finally got them the attention they wanted)?
And the fact is that it was the lawyers and courts that struck down the anti-protesting laws (that, again, only came about after they started protesting soldier funerals.
Besides, this is Volokh Conspiracy: and since you may have forgotten (or again, just never known) Volokh has spent years saying "nah, this is cool" to people harassing gay folk in all walks of life, and even in schools.
So I'm comfortable with my statement: as lawyers, Volokh Conspiracy commentators, and as conservatives, y'all wouldn't give one shit if folks showed up to harass my grieving family.
"...Volokh has spent years saying “nah, this is cool” to people harassing gay folk in all walks of life, and even in schools."
Important if true.
I don't see why the same rules shouldn't apply across the board.
Sorry to disappoint.
The Phelps fanatics are despised across the political spectrum. This isn’t even a good example of a *hypothetical* outrage.
In any case, the only *legal* recourse against them – suing for intentional influction of emotional distress – was blocked by the Supreme Court, 8-1. All the liberals, and all the conservatives but Alito, upheld the Phelps' rights. (and to be fair, once political demonstrations can be the subject of such suits, where would it end?)
compare (from a conservative commentator's comments re: President Biden's latest initiative "to address racial inequality in government"):
The phrase that comes to my mind here is “Political Commissar.“ The most familiar examples of Political Commissars were those in the Red Army of the USSR. They were experts in the Soviet ideology assigned to all units of the army, down to the company level, to make sure that the unit stayed politically correct. I’m not very surprised to learn, looking the term up on Wikipedia, that the job title of Political Commissar originated in the French Revolution.
As communism developed, Political Commissars were planted all over, not just in the military. The Party Secretaries I got to know at my own work unit in communist China performed the same function. Schools, colleges, business companies, sports leagues,… in a communist country any kind of organization gets stuck with Political Commissars to keep the organization on the ideological straight and narrow.
Our ruling class is aiming for something similar. In business corporations the Human Resources Departments are now, in effect, Political Commissariats. Employees known to harbor anti-regime opinions can be reported to HR for correction; or, if they persist in defiance, can be fired.
Now the federal government has its very own cadre of Political Commissars, with Susan Rice in overall charge. So the noose tightens; so our liberties fall away.
What’s that? You don’t approve? Correct your thinking, comrade!
Political Commissars are typical of any place where authoritarianism in any form presides. I have no problem opposing it in all its forms.
Do you?
???
What did I say that gave you the impression that, unlike you, I do not "oppos[e] [authoritarianism] in all its forms"?
I bet the people rounded up by the Nazis after they took over were also in disbelief. And yet it happened.
We need to stop these people before it's too late.
Well go protect a drag show, then, that's what the Nazis are protesting.
The future leaders of our profession, of the judiciary, of academia, and of industry come from these elite law schools. They will eagerly implement Beria-like policies to remake our society.