The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
How powerful are AR rifles?
About the same as other rifles
Several federal and state courts are relitigating the constitutionality of "assault weapon" bans after the Supreme Court's decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. Under Bruen's text-and-history test, government attorneys have argued that such laws fit within a supposed historical tradition of banning what the government calls "unusually dangerous" arms; the attorneys point to not-really-on-point historical laws about weapons such as Bowie knives or slungshots (a type of flexible hand-held impact weapon).
As detailed in a pair of previous posts, the mainstream historical tradition for controversial arms such Bowie knives and slungshots was to forbid concealed carry, to restrict sales to minors (especially without parental consent), or to impose extra punishment for misuse. But not to prohibit possession or sales for adults. See the previous VC posts, The legal history of bans on firearms and Bowie knives before 1900 and Bowie knife statutes 1837-1899. Although the articles are mainly about Bowie knives, many of the quoted statutes also covered slungshots.
"Assault weapons" long have been portrayed as exceptionally powerful firearms that are far more dangerous than other modern firearms and ill-suited for lawful activities like self-defense. When enacting the nation's first "assault weapon" ban in 1989, the California legislature declared that "each firearm has such a high rate of fire and capacity for firepower that its function as a legitimate sports or recreational firearm is substantially outweighed by the danger that it can be used to kill and injure human beings."
Five federal circuit courts relied on the lethality rationale pre-Bruen to uphold "assault weapon" bans. The First, Second, and Fourth circuits asserted that "assault weapons" have "a capability for lethality—more wounds, more serious, in more victims—far beyond that of other firearms in general, including other semiautomatic guns." The D.C. Circuit claimed that "assault weapons" like AR rifles are designed "to shoot multiple human targets very rapidly" and "fire almost as rapidly as automatics." The Seventh Circuit asserted that such firearms "enable shooters to fire bullets faster" and their "spray fire" design makes them more dangerous in mass shootings. The Fourth Circuit went so far as to hold that "assault weapons" are not protected arms under the Second Amendment because of their deadly similarity to machine guns. The First Circuit cited medical sources claiming that "assault weapons" cause far more devastating wounds that other firearms and declared that using such firearms for home defense "is tantamount to using a sledgehammer to crack open the shell of a peanut."
Thus, the prohibition argument is based on 1. Rate of fire, and 2. The power of the weapons' bullets.
The rate of fire claim is preposterous. Semiautomatic rifles as a class (including those that are supposedly "assault weapons") fire at essentially the same rate as semiautomatic handguns. These handguns, from companies such as Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Springfield, or Glock, are the most common defensive firearms in the United States; under the Supreme Court's decision in District of Columbia v. Heller, they may not be prohibited. As then-Judge Kavanaugh argued in his dissent in Heller II, it is irrational to single out semiautomatic rifles for prohibition based on rate of fire, given that semiautomatic handguns are plainly constitutionally protected. Heller v. District of Columbia, 670 F.3d 1244 (D.C. Cir. 2011) (Kavanaugh, J., dissenting).
This post will mainly discuss the second argument: that "assault weapon" bullets are much more destructive than bullets from other firearms. This post is co-authored by Campbell University law professor Gregory Wallace, who has published two articles on "assault weapons," the most recent being "Assault Weapon" Lethality, 88 Tenn. L. Rev. 1 (2020). Professor Wallace and I are among the co-authors of the law school textbook Firearms Law and the Second Amendment: Regulation, Rights, and Policy (3d ed. 2022, Aspen Pub.)
As post-Bruen litigation proceeds, more absurd claims are appearing in court filings and opinions about the extreme firepower of "assault weapons" and their unsuitability for self-defense. This post discusses two such examples. The first is from the California Attorney General in Rupp v. Bonta, a case challenging California's "assault weapon" ban. It was remanded by the Ninth Circuit for reconsideration in light of Bruen and is currently pending in federal district court in California. The second is from a recent federal district court opinion in Bevis v. City of Naperville, Illinois, denying a preliminary injunction against state and local "assault weapon" bans.
The discussion below involves precise description of the wounding effects of different types of ammunition. If you don't want to read such things, that is your reasonable choice. Just don't make decisions about what arms persons under your direct or indirect control can possess if those decisions are based on wounding effects and you refuse to be informed about wounding effects.
I. The names of different rifles
Let's start with some nomenclature for firearms models. The "AR" in AR-15 stands for "ArmaLite Rifle." It was the 15th model invented by the ArmaLite company. The AR-17 (which never went very far) was a shotgun. The AR-15 was an improved version of the AR-10 of 1956. In 1959, ArmaLite sold the AR-15 patents to Colt's Manufacturing Company.
Colt's then produced two firearms lines from the patents. The semiautomatic AR-15 rifle was introduced to the civilian market in 1964. The M16 was an automatic (machine gun) version for military use; it was sold in large quantities to the U.S. military and became a standard infantry weapon during the Vietnam War. The M16 and AR-15 look the same, except that the M16 has a selector switch that allows the user to choose automatic fire. Internally, the M16 has components for automatic fire and the AR-15 does not. Today, the military has adopted an improved version of the M16, namely the M4 carbine. (A carbine is a relatively short rifle.)
Meanwhile, the patents that Colt's had bought from ArmaLite expired in 1977. Today, most rifle manufacturers make a rifle based on the AR platform. However, Colt's still owns the tradename "AR-15." So precisely speaking, none of the firearms from the other manufacturers can be called an "AR-15." This post, except when quoting or summarizing writings that incorrectly use "AR-15" when they mean a broader group of rifles, will simply use the term "AR" for the class of rifles that use the AR platform.
II. Colonel Tucker's expert declaration in Rupp
The California AG has served the Rupp plaintiffs with an expert report and declaration from retired Colonel Craig Tucker, U.S. Marine Corps, who served as an infantry officer for 25 years and commanded combat units in Iraq. The curriculum vitae attached to his report is impressive and his service appreciated. Colonel (Ret.) Tucker did not disclose in either his report or CV that he is a founding member of the Veterans Advisory Council to Michael Bloomberg's gun-control advocacy group Everytown for Gun Safety.
Describing the purported lethality of the civilian AR-15, the most popular target of "assault weapon" bans, the Tucker report states:
The AR-15 and M4 are both designed to fire a .223 round that tumbles upon hitting flesh and rips thru the human body. A single round is capable of severing the upper body from the lower body, or decapitation. The round is designed to kill, not wound, and both the AR-15 and M4 contain barrel rifling to make the round tumble upon impact and cause more severe injury. The combination of automatic rifle and .223 round is a very efficient killing system. The same can be said of the AR-15.
These five sentences are a cascade of errors and absurdities.
II.A. "The AR-15 and M4 are both designed to fire a .223 round . . ."
The Tucker declaration asserts that the M4 is "designed to fire a .223 round." In fact, the the military's M4 carbine is designed to fire the 5.56mm NATO round, not the civilian .223 Remington round. It is difficult to understand how a Marine colonel with combat infantry experience would think the M4 is designed for the .223 round.
The numbers .223 and 5.56 designate the caliber of the round based on a rough approximation of bullet diameter, which is expressed in thousandths of an inch (.223 caliber) or millimeters (5.56 caliber). The U.S. military uses the NATO designation, measured in millimeters.
While the .223 and 5.56 rounds have the same bullet diameter, there is a difference. The case for the 5.56mm has a .125-inch longer throat and thus can be loaded with additional gun powder, resulting in slightly higher performance. The military M16 and M4 are 5.56mm. Civilian guns on the AR platform are sometimes .223, but the majority are 5.56mm (still able to use .223), or other calibers. Because of the higher pressure created when fired, the 5.56 round should not be used in an AR rifle chambered only for the .223 round. The .223 round can be used in a 5.56 chamber, but may cause improper cycling (e.g., jams) with shorter barrels.
II.B. "that tumbles upon hitting flesh and rips thru the human body."
To understand why this statement is false requires an explanation of wound ballistics, the study of the effects of a penetrating projectile on living tissue. Dr. Martin Fackler, military trauma surgeon, former director of the Army's Wound Ballistics Laboratory, and the most widely-recognized modern expert on the subject, observed that "[p]robably no scientific field contains more misinformation than wound ballistics."
A firearm bullet is propelled by the expanding gas from a gunpowder explosion. Other things being equal, a bullet fired from a longer barrel will have higher velocity than a bullet fired from a shorter barrel. For example, a bullet that travels through a 16 inch rifle barrel will spend about four times longer being propelled by the expanding gas than will a bullet that travels through a 4 inch handgun barrel.
Bullets from AR rifles, like bullets from most other modern rifles, typically have about three times the muzzle velocity of common handgun bullets. Muzzle velocity is measured at the moment the barrel exits the bullet; as the bullet travels downrange, velocity declines due to air friction.
More velocity does not necessarily mean greater wound severity—a ping-pong ball and a bullet fired at the same muzzle velocity will produce very different effects on the target (terminal results).
A starting point in wound ballistics is the kinetic energy of the bullet when it strikes the target. The formula is: KE = 1/2 x mass x (square of the velocity). Other things being equal, a bullet that is twice as heavy as a different bullet will have twice the kinetic energy.
Both velocity and bullet mass contribute to kinetic energy. Rifle bullets in general strike with much higher kinetic energy than do handgun bullets, because the rifle bullets have higher velocity.
But the bullets for the most common AR calibers (.223, followed by 5.56mm) are much smaller than the bullets from many other rifles. Thus, they strike with only about a half to a third of the kinetic energy of larger caliber rifle bullets, such as .270, .30-'06, .308, .338, .444, and so on. The larger bullets not only have a greater width (i.e. caliber), they also typically are longer.
If we were in the year 1700, then the wound ballistics analysis would be at an end, since at the time all bullets had the same shape. They were spheres. That is why today a unit of ammunition is still called a "round." However, since the early 1800s, conoidal bullets have been the norm. The shape improves aerodynamic stability, so the bullet can travel further and with less loss of velocity.
Then as now, the location of impact and type of type of tissues disrupted along the bullet's path is more influential than kinetic energy, velocity, or mass. Today, the bullet's shape and construction materials are also very important.
Tissue damage from bullets comes primarily from the permanent crushing of tissue in the bullet's path. This is the permanent cavity (a/k/a permanent track).
Additionally, if the bullet is traveling fast enough, the pressure wave following the bullet can cause temporary stretching of tissue surrounding the bullet's path. This is the temporary cavity (a/k/a temporary track).
The size of the permanent cavity is proportional to the size of the bullet. The size of the temporary cavity can vary greatly, depending on the size and location of the temporary cavity on the bullet's path and the elasticity of the tissue affected.
More elastic tissue can absorb energy more easily, and is therefore much more resistant to injury from temporary cavitation. Such tissue includes muscle, lungs, skin, blood vessels and empty or hollow organs such as the stomach, bladder, or intestines.
Less elastic tissue, such as the brain, liver, kidney, and fluid-filled organs (e.g., the heart), are more likely to shatter, rupture, or tear due to temporary cavitation. Bone fractures from temporary cavitation are rare—when a bone is shattered, it usually is due to being struck by the bullet. Injuries to extremities normally come from being hit by the bullet or bullet fragments (or bone fragments if the bone is hit) rather than by temporary cavitation.
Notwithstanding Col. Tucker's claim, the bullets fired from an AR do not "tumble[] upon hitting flesh."
Bullets never "tumble" in the ordinary sense of the word. That is, they do not perform repeated 360 degree rotations horizontally or vertically. In human tissue, an intact bullet can change the angle of penetration by up to 180 degrees, meaning that the back of the bullet is now the front. The most damage occurs when the bullet has rotated 90 degrees. Then, the entire length of the intact, nondeformed bullet disrupts tissue, thus creating a larger permanent wound cavity and a larger temporary cavity.
Changes in bullet angle are called yaw. While some ballistics experts distinguish horizontal changes (yaw) from vertical changes (pitch), most use "yaw" for any change in angle.
Below, we will describe how some military ammunition, with which Col. Tucker is presumably familiar, can yaw—that is, change angle by as much as 90 to 180 degrees in human tissue. What Col. Tucker does not understand is that many civilian AR users do not choose the yaw-prone 5.56mm full metal jacket ammunition that the U.S. military uses. In fact, many AR users choose ammunition that is designed not to yaw but instead to deform.
A bullet can yaw if it stays physically intact, retaining is shape as it moves though the target. But many bullets, especially those made for self-defense, are designed not to stay intact. These bullets are designed to fragment, expand, or deform when they strike a target. For simplicity, we will call such bullets "deforming bullets," because they are designed to lose their original form when they strike.
Why is deforming ammunition often chosen for defensive rifles and handguns of all types? Why do many law enforcement agencies mandate that their deputies and officers use such ammunition? The main reason is safety.
If a bullet stays intact, there can be two results: It can just come to a stop in the body. Or it can continue through the body and exit the other side, creating an exit wound (as opposed to an entry wound).
This can be a bad result for two reasons: First, the exited bullet could hit another person. For example, when Alec Baldwin shot a victim on a movie set, the bullet entered her chest, killed her, exited, and then struck and injured a second victim. In a law enforcement or self-defense situation, the bullet that exited the criminal's body might hit an innocent victim.
Second, the purpose of shooting another person is to make that person stop doing something immediately, such as perpetrating a violent felony. Therefore, all of the kinetic energy from the bullet should be delivered to the perpetrator, to increase the possibility that the bullet will stop the perpetrator.
Deforming bullets are designed to not exit the body. Instead, they are designed to impart all their kinetic energy to a single target. Because they are made not to stay intact, they do not yaw, or to use Col. Tucker's word, "tumble."
There are many varieties of deforming ammunition, based on shape, materials, and construction. For example, in a hollow-point bullet, the tip opens up like flower petals as its moves through the target. Similarly, a solid soft tip on a bullet might flatten or "mushroom." The expansion by whatever means gives the bullet a larger diameter, which crushes more tissue; it also increases the size of both the permanent and temporary cavities. When the bullet deforms or expands, it becomes blunter and thus more stable, preventing the "tumbling" described by Col. Tucker. Such bullets also can fragment in tissue, with the fragments spreading out and creating their own permanent wound tracks separate from the main wound track. These fragments greatly increase the permanent cavity size as they tear and detach tissue displaced by the temporary cavity. A deforming or fragmenting bullet from a powerful handgun can produce similar effects to tissue, resembling those from a much faster rifle bullet.
Thus, in most situations of lawful defense of self or others, deforming/expanding bullets do the best job of increasing the likelihood that the imminent or ongoing attack will be stopped, and of reducing the risk that an exited bullet could injure a bystander.
Most rules have exceptions. One of the situations when deforming/expanding bullets might not a preferred choice for self-defense is in bear country. Some people say that a flat-nosed, non-deforming bullet is the one with the best chance of making its way through an attacking bear's massive rib cage.
Col. Tucker's declaration provides no indication that he has any familiarity with the above: namely that civilian AR users can and often do choose AR ammunition that is specifically designed not to tumble.
Instead, Col. Tucker seems to mistakenly believe that all civilians users of AR rifles use the same ammunition as does the military for the M16 and M4. That ammunition is 5.56mm FMJ (full metal jacket). In a full metal jacket, the lead bullet core is surrounded by a jacket of metal. Lead is a very soft material. On the Moh's Hardness scale of 1-10, lead is 1.5—below a fingernail (2.5), penny (3.5), or diamond (10).
With unjacketed bullets, there is substantial lead abrasion due to friction as the bullet travels down the barrel. Lead fouling degrades accuracy. In combat situations, when a soldier might have to fire hundreds or thousands of rounds with no opportunity to clean the gun, preventing lead fouling is important. Because the full metal jacket is made of harder material than lead, much less lead abrasion builds up in the gun barrel. This is one of the reasons why full metal jacket is preferred in a military context.
For bullets that do not deform, tissue damage is (relatively) minimal as long is the bullet travels point-forward. But, as described above, some rifle bullets, such as the military 5.56 round with a full metal jacket, can yaw as much as 180 degrees, increasing wound severity. In contrast, most nondeforming handgun bullets yaw at least a little, but usually not enough to cause significant additional damage.
Nondeforming bullets from any firearm also may fragment due to stress from yawing against gravity, or after striking bone. Fragmentation increases wound severity, as described above.
In short, a nondeforming round, such as the military 5.56mm with a full metal jacket, might travel intact more or less intact through a target and could hit someone else. Or it might fragment or significantly yaw, causing greater damage.
According to the California Attorney General and Col. Tucker, the .223 round begins to instantly tumble "upon hitting flesh." As explained above, many civilian .223 or 5.56mm rounds are designed not to "tumble."
Suppose we revise Col. Tucker's declaration so that it applies only to the 5.56mm FMJ rounds with which he is familiar, and not to the plentitude of AR rounds of which he apparently has no knowledge. With a corrective and vastly narrowing construction, is Col Tucker accurate? That is, is it true that the 5.56 FMJ "tumbles upon hitting flesh"? Certainly not.
Dr. Fackler found that about 85% of military 5.56mm FMJ bullets travel point-forward at least five inches before beginning to yaw. The straighter the bullet hits the target, the longer it will take to yaw after it strikes. Thus, a nondeforming full metal jacket rifle bullet can pass completely through a human target without yawing or fragmenting, leaving a small wound channel and relatively mild injury unless it strikes a vital organ, bone, or other critical structure.
The M16 and M4 have always been subjects of military controversy. On the one hand, they are much more accurate, when functioning, than their Soviet counterpart rifles, such as the AK-47 and its lineage. The AK-47 is the automatic (avtomat in Russian) rifle invented by Mikael Kalashnikov and first manufactured in 1947. Like the M16 and M4, and unlike ARs, the AK-47 is capable of automatic fire. Compared to the AK-47, American guns are more fragile in adverse conditions, such as sand storms. The Soviet guns were built to looser tolerances (how closely the parts fit together). The result is that American rifles are more accurate when clean and Soviet rifles are less affected by dust and grit.
The modern American infantry weapons have also been controversial for another reason. Compared to the rifle ammunition issued to almost all armies past and present, the 5.56mm FMJ is unusually lightweight. This is an advantage because a soldier can carry more ammunition, and thus continue fighting longer even when resupply is not available. This is same reason that in the 18th century, American long hunters, who might be out on expeditions for months, down-graded their calibers from the standard musket calibers of .60 or .75 to the .46 or .32 of the Pennsylvania/Kentucky rifles. The less the ammunition weighs, the more one can carry.
The disadvantage is the lower the ammunition weight, the less the stopping power. As explained above, any reduction in bullet weight is exactly matched by a reduction in kinetic energy.
There have been numerous reports that the military's 5.56 FMJ round has insufficient terminal effectiveness in combat. Combat veteran and military small arms expert Jim Schatz explains, "The disturbing failure of the 5.56x45mm caliber to consistently offer adequate incapacitation has been known for nearly 20 years." He describes one Special Forces (SF) mission in Afghanistan when an insurgent was shot seven or eight times in the torso with the 5.56 round, got back up, climbed over a wall, and reengaged other SF soldiers, killing a SF medic. The insurgent then was shot another six-to-eight times from about 20-30 yards before finally being killed by a SF soldier with a handgun.
Similarly, Rob Maylor, a former Australian SAS sniper, has "on several occasions witnessed bad guys being hit multiple times by 5.56mm . . . at varying ranges and then continue[] to fight." He explains that while the 5.56 round is designed to yaw and fragment, "[t]his isn't happening all the time and as a result projectiles are passing through the body with minimal damage."
Mark Bowden's bestselling book Black Hawk Down gives vivid accounts of less-than-lethal performance of the Army's green-tip 5.56mm bullet (M855) in the Battle of Mogadishu in 1993. He describes one Delta operator's rounds as
passing right through his targets. When the Sammies were close enough he could see when he hit them. . . . [I]t was like sticking somebody with an ice pick. The bullet made a small, clean hole, and unless hit happened to hit the heart or spine, it wasn't enough to stop a man in his tracks. [The operator] felt like he had to hit a guy five or six times just to get his attention.
These instances are consistent with Dr. Fackler's own findings. He recounts that
[i]n 1980, I treated a soldier shot accidentally with an M16 M193 bullet from a distance of about ten feet. The bullet entered his left thigh and traveled obliquely upward. It exited after passing through about 11 inches of muscle. The man walked into my clinic with no limp whatsoever: the entrance and exit holes were about 4mm across, and punctate. X-ray films showed intact bones, no bullet fragments, and no evidence of significant tissue disruption caused by the bullet's temporary cavity. The bullet path passed well lateral to the femoral vessels. He was back on duty in a few days. Devastating? Hardly.
Dr. Fackler further notes that "[i]n my experience and research, at least as many M16 users in Vietnam concluded that [the 5.56mm] produced unacceptably minimal, rather than 'massive,' wounds."
Like any firearm, the AR rifle in typical calibers such as .223/5.56mm, can cause serious or lethal wounds, and so can other rifles, shotguns, and handguns. Wound profiles from the Army's Wound Ballistics Laboratory illustrate the permanent and temporary cavities, penetration depth, deformation, and fragmentation of both the deforming (soft-point) .223 caliber bullet, the non-deforming 5.56mm FMJ bullet, and other larger caliber bullets typically used in hunting rifles (e.g., .30-30, .308). A comparison of those profiles shows that the wounding effects of the larger caliber bullets are at least as extensive as the .223/5.56, and typically more so.
According to Dr. Fackler, the .223 Remington is "a 'varmint' cartridge, used effectively for shooting woodchucks, crows, and coyotes." Because of its smaller size, there is an ongoing debate among hunters over whether the .223 round has adequate terminal performance for taking deer or larger game. Some states ban the use of .223 caliber rifles when hunting deer and other animals larger than varmints because their rounds lack sufficient power. The ethos of hunting is to take an animal with a single fatal shot. In the views of some state game commissions, the usual AR calibers of .223 and 5.56mm are too weak; at least a .270 is required for hunting deer, antelope, or anything larger.
II.C. "A single round is capable of severing the upper body from the lower body, or decapitation."
This is the most implausible claim in Col. Tucker's report, which is made under oath and theoretical penalty of perjury. He declares that his report "is based on my own personal knowledge and experience, and, if I am called as a witness, I could and would testify competently to the truth of the matters discussed in this Report."
No one disputes that wounds from an AR rifle, like any firearm, can be fatal. That such wounds can be "capable of severing the upper body from the lower body, or decapitation" is false.
Buford Boone is the former director of the FBI's Ballistic Research Facility for 15 years and one of the world's leading authorities on internal, external, and terminal ballistics. In his expert witness rebuttal report in Rupp v. Bonta, he describes this claim as "so ridiculous that it should, and actually does, cast doubt on [Col. Tucker's] qualifications as an expert in the field of firearms, particularly as it relates to wound ballistics."
Col. Tucker offers no examples or authority to support his claim. No doubt he will be asked at deposition or trial whether he has personally witnessed a person being decapitated or having his upper body severed from his lower body by a single .223 or 5.56 round. Mr. Boone explains in his rebuttal report why it is unlikely Colonel Tucker can answer truthfully in the affirmative:
In almost 26 years of professional involvement in the field of wound ballistics, I have never heard, even anecdotally, of an incident wherein a person was decapitated or their upper body was severed from their lower body as a result of being shot by a single projectile fired from any small arm. ["Small arm" is a term of art to distinguish hand-carried weapons from larger arms, such as naval artillery.] It is notable that the .223/5.56 is on the lower end of terminal performance potential of the vast calibers available in centerfire rifles. In fact, the .223/5.56 is below the allowable minimum cartridges for deer hunting in some states. Additionally, since reading Colonel (Ret.) Tucker's supplemental report, I have shared that statement with many associates in the firearms field. All have questioned the credentials of an "expert" that would make such a claim. It is my opinion that no examples have been provided because such performance has never been witnessed.
Although perhaps never "witnessed," claims that "assault weapons" can decapitate or dismember have appeared in several media reports and at least one court opinion. They can be traced to a U.S. military report from Vietnam in 1962. Derivatively, an NPR report on the Uvalde murders in May 2022 describes the civilian AR as "designed to blow targets apart" and claims that "its bullets travel with such fierce velocity that they can decapitate a person." The NPR article links to an article in The Intercept that cites a military report describing how "Viet Cong fighters hit with the weapon were frequently decapitated and dismembered, many looking as though they had 'exploded.'" The Intercept article links to a Gawker story that quotes extensively from the military report about "how the AR-15, chambered with the same .223 ammunition that it uses today, not only killed VC soldiers but decapitated and dismembered them." In Kolbe v. Hogan, the Fourth Circuit cited the same military report to prove the extreme lethality of the civilian AR. Military testing, the court said, found that high-velocity projectiles from the AR caused "[a]mputations of limbs, massive body wounds, and decapitations."
However, as detailed above, the US military in Vietnam never used civilian ARs or .223 ammunition; the military used M16 rifles with 5.56mm ammunition.
The testing of the M16 with 5.56mm cited by the Fourth Circuit and some credulous media was conducted as part of Project AGILE, part of a research program in Southeast Asia initiated by the Department of Defense's Advanced Research Projects Administration (DARPA). At the time, the military was considering whether to replace the M14 (a Korean War gun) with the M16 as its primary combat rifle. Project AGILE supplied M16 rifles to South Vietnamese combat troops for field trials to determine whether the M16 would perform satisfactorily in combat. The subsequent report included claims of massive injuries from the M16's 5.56mm round, including two amputations and a decapitation.
These claims were never confirmed. The Army's Wound Ballistic Laboratory at Edgewood Arsenal tested the lethality of the M16 in gelatin, animals, and cadavers but could not duplicate the "theatrically grotesque wounds" reported by Project AGILE. C.J. Chivers, a Pulitzer Prize winning New York Times journalist, extensively researched the testing for his book The Gun. "No matter what they did," writes Chivers, "they were unable to reproduce the effects that the participants in Project AGILE claimed to have seen." As Chivers writes:
even the hollow-points [common for civilian use, but not military] failed to duplicate anything like the spectacular effects recorded by the Vietnamese unit commanders and their American advisors, which had subsequently been taken as fact and much used in the . . . campaign to sell the AR-15. [Recall that the "AR-15" was at first a marketing term for both the automatic M16 and for non-automatic rifles.]
The Wound Ballistic Laboratory's lethality study was kept secret for more than four decades, Chivers explains, with the result that "at the most important time, during the early and mid-1960s, the Project AGILE report, with its suspicious observations and false conclusions, remained uncontested." The M16 "continued to rise, boosted by a reputation for lethality and reliability that it did not deserve."
In other words, the military wanted to switch to the M16, notwithstanding complaints from many soldiers that it is underpowered. The military used the sensational Project Agile claims, including two purported instances of limb amputations and one of a decapitation, to counter the complaints about the M16's weak firepower. The military in fact knew that the claims from Project AGILE could not be true, because extensive testing by the Army's Wound Ballistic Laboratory had proven that the Project AGILE claims were not true. Nevertheless, the military insisted on adopting the M16 and suppressed the true facts reported by the Wound Ballistic Laboratory.
Dr. Fackler recounts that there were other claims in the 1960s and 70s that the M16's high velocity bullets caused "massive" and "devastating" injuries, but these claims were disproven or contradicted by other reports. Delegates to war surgery conferences in the early 1970s "reported no unusual problems associated with 'high-velocity' bullet wounds in Vietnam. There were no reports of rifle bullet wounds causing traumatic amputations of an extremity."
Combat veterans have rejected claims that .223 or 5.56 rounds are capable of beheading people. Delta operator Bob Keller said he has never seen anyone decapitated by an AR round and called the claim "bullshit." Rob O'Neill, the Navy SEAL who killed Osama bin Laden, said the claim is "100% inaccurate" and "there is no way, no way" that a .223 or 5.56 round can decapitate someone. "As a former Navy SEAL who has shot people up close with something similar to an AR-15, you don't blow their head off, it's not how it works." O'Neill added, "I shot bin Laden three times in the head up close with the same caliber and it didn't decapitate him."
In sum, Col Tucker's "expert" claim that a .223 round can cut a body in half is incorrect.
II.D. "The round is designed to kill, not wound . . ."
Every ordinary round—whether fired from a handgun, rifle, or shotgun—fairly can be described as "designed to kill." Some specialized rounds are marketed as "less than lethal"—e.g., rubber bullets, beanbag rounds; they typically injure and sometimes kill. No normal lead ammunition is specifically "designed to wound" and not kill. All defensive ammunition is designed to take the adversary out of the fight, and for no other purpose. The purpose can be accomplished either by killing or with a wound severe enough to incapacitate the adversary.
II.E. "and both the AR-15 and M4 contain barrel rifling to make the round tumble upon impact and cause more severe injury."
Here, Col. Tucker's claims become bizarre. Rifling is spiral grooves or other features on the inside surface (bore) of the barrel that spin the bullet on its longitudinal axis as it travels down the barrel. Within the bore, the raised parts are the lands and the flat parts are the grooves. By definition, every rifle contains rifling. So do almost all handguns. Rifling makes the bullet spin on its long axis, and improves aerodynamic stability. Rifling is not a feature unique to the AR; every rifle has rifling.
The purpose of rifling is to stabilize the bullet in flight, not to make the bullet tumble when it strikes. Tumbling (rotating end over end) is the opposite of stability. The higher the barrel's "twist" rate—how many inches a bullet must travel down the barrel to rotate one full turn—the more aerodynamically stable the bullet will be. Think of a football: the tighter the spiral, the faster, farther, and more accurately it will travel.
What of the M16? Very early select fire models of the AR-15 (before it became the M16) had a slow twist rate of 1:14; that is, in a 14 inch barrel, a bullet would rotate once. In a longer barrel, such as 24 inches, the bullet would still rotate less than twice. Due to Swedish objections about the slow twist rate, the first M16s put into service has a twist of 1:12. A misconception arose bullets with the 1:12 twist would yaw or tumble in flight. Dr. Fackler explains:
The notion that a common cause of increased wounding is the bullet's striking at large yaw angles (angle between the bullet's long axis and line of flight), or even sideways due to "tumbling" in flight is clearly fallacious. Anyone who has ever shot a rifle and observed the holes made by the bullet recognizes that they are round, not oblong, as would be the case if they yawed or tumbled in flight. This misconception seems attributable in large measure to misinterpretation of a report published, in 1967, by Hopkinson and Marshall. These authors presented diagrams of the yaw angles and patterns made by the bullet tip in flight. The angles on their drawings were exaggerated for clarity, showing 25 to 30 degrees rather than the 1 to 3 degrees that actually occur for properly designed bullets of small arms. . . . Thus bullet yaw in tissue, an important consideration, has been confused with bullet yaw in flight, which is, in most cases, of negligible consequence.
Dr. Fackler was describing what every target shooter knows from observation. Whether shooting near or far, and no matter what the gun, the holes in paper targets will be circles. Perhaps imperfect circles, with one side three degrees greater than the other. At whatever distance, a bullet through air only slightly deviates from a perfectly straight path, accounting for wind effects and gravity over distance.
During the 1960s, the fairly low twist rate of 1:12 did often result in yawing and fragmentation upon impact. These days, the military M4 has been improved with a 1:7 twist. (So in a 21 inch barrel, the bullet would rotate on is long axis three times before exiting the muzzle.) Civilian ARs today typically have twist of 1:7 to 1:9. Overall, there is no significant bullet yaw or pitch during flight, regardless of gun. If any occurs after penetration, that is due to the matter encountered, rather than the rifling of the gun.
Finally, Col. Tucker claims that the rifles he is denouncing (AR-15, M4) are designed for offensive combat, not self-defense:
I carried my M4 for offensive combat and a handgun for self-defense. Defensive combat is generally up close and very personal. At that range, it is very difficult to use a rifle as a defensive weapon, except as a blunt force instrument.
This will come as great surprise to the many millions of Americans who have relied on a rifle as their primary home defense arm. Granted, rifles are less maneuverable than handguns at very close quarters; even so, rifles are more accurate because they are easier to aim, more stable when held, and have longer barrels. The AR in particular has low recoil, making it easier for users with limited upper body strength to control. As explained in a pro/con article by Guncraft Training Academy, one of the advantages of an AR rifle compared to a handgun is that the AR bullet is much smaller than typical defensive handgun rounds. Hence, the bullet loses velocity sooner than does a bigger bullet when it strikes the target. Therefore, the AR bullet is less likely to over-penetrate—that is, to exit the criminal's body and thereby endanger other people.
III. The Bevis v. City of Naperville opinion
The federal district court opinion in Bevis v. Naperville offers a preview of how Bruen-defying lower courts will uphold "assault weapon" bans. The Bevis Judge, Virginia M. Kendall, had previously held that Chicago's ban on all public firing ranges in the city did not violate the Second Amendment. Ezell v. City of Chicago, 2010 WL 3998104 (N.D. Ill., Oct. 12, 2010). That decision was later reversed by the Seventh Circuit. 651 F.3d 684 (7th Cir. 2011).
In Bevis, Judge Kendall declared that "[a]ssault weapons pose an exceptional danger, more so than standard self-defense weapons such as handguns." She cited in support the Second Circuit's pre-Bruen assertion in New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass'n v. Cuomo that "these weapons tend to result in more numerous wounds, more serious wounds, and more victims." These claims are incorrect.
III.A. Rate of fire: "more numerous wounds . . . more victims"
Like the pre-Bruen circuit courts, the Judge Kendall first addressed the banned firearms' rate of fire; they "fire quickly," she said. Civilian semiautomatic-only "assault weapons" are not machine guns; they fire only one round for each pull of the trigger. While Judge Kendall initially claimed that an "assault weapon" can empty a 30-round magazine in six seconds, she conceded that a more realistic rate of fire is one round per second. At that rate, however, "assault weapons" are no more dangerous than handguns, from which an average shooter typically can fire two or three rounds a second.
III.B. Terminal effects: "more serious wounds"
Judge Kendall then described the supposedly massive wounds that "assault weapons" produce when their bullets strike, something also emphasized in the pre-Bruen circuit court decisions. She briefly addressed two factors—muzzle velocity and bullet penetration—to show that "assault weapons" produce more devastating wounds than other firearms. Their bullets "hit fast and penetrate deep into the body," she said.
III.B.1. Muzzle velocity
To support the first factor, the Judge Kendall claimed the muzzle velocity of an "assault weapon" is "four-times higher than a high-powered semiautomatic firearm." That claim is untrue, unsupported by the cited authority, and nonsensical. Of course rifles in general have higher velocity than handguns in general, because rifles definitionally have much longer barrels. Most handgun barrels are six inches or less; rifle barrels are, by federal law, at least 16 inches. (Rifles with shorter barrels require special registration and taxation by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, pursuant to the National Firearms Act of 1934).
To say that a given rifle has greater velocity than handguns is true, but this is not in any way unique to AR rifles.
The muzzle velocity of a 55-grain .223/5.56 round from an AR is around 3200 feet-per-second (fps), while larger-caliber rounds used in hunting and other types of rifles have muzzle velocities from 2500-3000 fps. Popular 9mm, .40, and .45 caliber handgun rounds typically have muzzle velocities from 1000-1200 fps. So do most 40-grain .22 caliber rimfire long rifle (LR) rounds. (The puny .22LR is popular for both rifles and handguns; its low power makes it an excellent choice as a child's first firearm.)
At most, the muzzle velocity of an "assault weapon" is three times that of lower-velocity semiautomatic handgun round.
Judge Kendall cited an article by Dr. Peter Rhee et al. to support the "four-times higher" claim. Muzzle velocities of various firearms do not appear on the cited page (855), but do in two charts on the next page (856). Nothing in the charts or the text states or supports the "four-times higher" claim; in fact, the muzzle velocities in the article reflect those set out above. It is unclear where the judge came up with the "four-times higher" figure.
Not only is Judge Kendall's claim wrong and unsupported, it is nonsensical. She declares that the banned weapons fire four-times faster than a "high-powered semiautomatic firearm." Ban advocates and the media often refer to semiautomatic "assault weapons" as "high-powered." In target rifle competitions, all calibers above the diminutive .22 are called "high power." So competitors using a .22 rifle would compete in one class, and competitors with larger rifles would compete in a different class.
The Rhee article defines "high-velocity" bullets as those with a velocity of at least 2500 fps, while "low-velocity" bullets travel at 1200 fps or less. If an "assault weapon" and a "high-powered semiautomatic firearm" are one in the same, any comparison between the two is nonsensical.
Judge Kendall's reliance on bullet velocity to prove "assault weapons" are exceptionally dangerous misunderstands the fundamentals of wound ballistics. Her claim is really just an observation that rifles in general are more powerful than handguns in general.
II.B.2. Wound damage
While "assault weapon" bullets typically "penetrate deep into the body," Judge Kendall accurately noted, so do handgun bullets. FBI testing shows that to be reliably effective, handgun bullets must penetrate soft body tissue 12-to-18 inches, a range necessary to reach and disrupt a vital organ in a human target.
Judge Kendall offered a description of the wounding effects of "assault weapon" bullets to depict them as highly dangerous. Rather than citing scholarly articles on wound ballistics or quoting wound ballistics experts or military trauma surgeons who regularly treat rifle wounds, she relied on an NPR report and an opinion article in The Atlantic.
The NPR report was published following the Uvalde, Texas, murders. Judge Kendall quoted one doctor from the article who describes bullets from "assault weapons" as causing "cavitation" in which the projectile creates a "large cavity." But both handgun and rifle rounds can cause large temporary cavities. Dr. Fackler notes that "[t]emporary cavitation is not a modern phenomenon associated exclusively with projectiles of high velocity." He describes the temporary cavitation caused by common handgun rounds. All centerfire rifle bullets (that is, every modern round bigger than above the .22 rimfire) and large handgun bullets often cause a large temporary cavity. The size of the cavity can vary considerably, depending on the tissue in which it forms. The NPR doctor's quote describes a common characteristic of handgun and rifle wounds; it does not describe anything exceptional about "assault weapons."
Judge Kendall also quoted an op-ed in The Atlantic by a radiologist who viewed AR wounds from the Parkland shooting from her computer screen. Supposedly, the bullet "does not actually have to hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding."
While it is not impossible for the temporary cavity to tear a hole in an artery, it is rare. Dr. Fackler explains that "[b]lood vessels are usually simply pushed aside and are almost never disrupted by temporary cavitation." He observed one case in which the temporary cavity created by an expanding handgun bullet tore a hole in the aorta at its junction with the right renal artery. He writes, "I must emphasize the extreme rarity of this case. I never published it, however, not wishing to add to the widespread wildly exaggerated effects attributed to the temporary cavity by many" (original emphasis).
The Atlantic writer further claimed that "[e]xit wounds can be the size of an orange."
Assertions that .223/5.56 rounds create huge exit wounds often appear in media accounts. One radiologist calling for "common sense gun reform" claimed that "exit wounds associated with AR-15 firearms are often the size of grapefruits." Rep. Lucy McBath (D-Ga) declared on Twitter that "[w]ith assault rifles, exit wounds can be a foot wide," as did a trauma surgeon with military experience quoted in the New York Times. That same doctor offered this hyperbolic description in another media interview:
[A]s they travel through the body, [AR bullets] will destroy all the organs in the region of where they're traveling, and that's really due to the kinetic energy that those bullets impart. So, any centrally-fired weapon, if it hits anywhere in the central portion of the body, will blow a huge hole in a human being, particularly the exit wound, and it'll almost always be lethal. . . .
The average size of a navel orange, the most popular orange in the U.S., is three inches across, although some can grow as big as 4.5 inches in diameter. The average size of a grapefruit is four-to-six inches.
Studies have measured exit holes of .223/5.56 rounds in both gelatin testing and actual autopsy analysis. One study, using ballistic gelatin, found that the size and position of the temporary cavity influenced the size of the exit wound for 5.56mm NATO FMJ round. Testing showed that the exit hole reaches its maximum size if the bullet exits when the temporary cavity is at its maximum. The average size of the exit hole when the temporary cavity was maximized was 2.4 inches.
Another study examined 27 forensic autopsy records from persons shot with 5.56mm ammunition during dispersion of a mass protest in Bangkok in 2010. Twenty-three had typical entrance wounds. Exit wounds were various sizes and shapes, depending on the degree of bullet yaw and whether the bullet exited during the largest part of the temporary cavity. The six largest exit wounds in this group were two stellate (star) shape in the skull measuring 2.4 x 1.8 inches (6 x 4.5 cm) and 1.9 x 1.2 inches (5 x 3 cm), one stellate shape entering the back and exiting the abdomen measuring 1.2 x 1 inches (3 x 2.5 cm), one oval shape in the abdomen exiting in the lower back measuring 0.8 x 0.4 inches (2 x 1 cm), one oval shaped entering the back and exiting the chest measuring 0.8 x 0.4 inches (2 x 1 cm), and one stellate shape in the face exiting the neck measuring 0.6 x 0.4 inches (1.5 x1 cm). The remaining 17 bullets in this group either exited the body without yaw, fragmented, or left no exit wounds at all. Exit wounds were small round or oval shapes measuring less than 0.4 in (1 cm).
Nine persons suffered atypical entrance wounds from bullets that destabilized before hitting the body either by ricochet or hitting an intermediate target, causing the bullets to enter the body either sideways or at an angle. One entered the skull with the resulting exit wound having stellate shape measuring 2.9 x1 inches (7.5 x 5 cm). Another entered the lateral chest and exited the anterior chest with a stellate shape measuring 2.75 x 2.4 inches (7 x 6 cm). Two others hit extremities, one in the forearm and the other in the thigh, both with oval shaped exit wounds measuring 1.5x0.8cm (0.6 x .3 cm) and 1.2 x 0.7 cm (0.5 x 0.3 in), respectively. Of the remaining five, two caused head lacerations but did not enter the skull and three had no exit wounds, but retained the bullet or bullet fragments.
None of the exit wounds in either study are the size of oranges or grapefruits.
Such misreporting is nothing new. Thirty-three years ago, Dr. Fackler described how media accounts embellished the injuries suffered by five children murdered in the 1989 elementary school shooting in Stockton, California, one of the first modern mass shootings; the crime created the national "assault weapon" controversy. Dr. Fackler did ballistics testing on the ammunition used in the criminal's semiautomatic AKM-56S rifle, whose rounds are larger than the .223/5.56mm rounds that are most often used in ARs. Dr. Fackler also reviewed the autopsies of the children killed. He explained:
Much of the media coverage generated by the Stockton shooting has contained misstatements and exaggerations. The myth of "shock waves" resounding from these "high velocity" bullets "pulverizing bones and exploding organs" (even if they were not hit by the bullet) "like a bomb" going off in the body was repeated by the media, in certain cases even after they were furnished solid evidence that disproved these absurdities. None of the autopsies showed damage beyond the projectile path. One "expert" was quoted as stating that the death rate from "assault weapons . . . approaches 50[%]." Another, reporting on the effects of "high speed" bullets, stated that "most of those hit in an extremity will end up with amputations. If you're hit in the trunk, it becomes a lethal injury. . ." In the Stockton schoolyard, the death rate was 14% and none of the [wounded] victims died later or required extremity amputation.
Judges should think twice about relying on unsworn, anecdotal, and hyperbolic statements gleaned from media articles produced by gun prohibition advocates.
III.B.3. "the injury along the path of the bullet from an AR-15 is vastly different from a low-velocity handgun injury."
This statement is generally correct, but can be misleading without more context. Rifle bullets typically do more damage to tissue than handgun bullets, but not always so, depending on where the bullets strike. A handgun round to the brain, spinal cord, heart, or other vital organ almost always will cause more serious damage than a rifle round to an extremity or other non-vital part of the torso. As Dr. Rhee explains, "[m]ost experienced trauma surgeons will testify that what part of the body is hit by [the] gun is more important than the size of the gun."
To classify a firearm as exceptionally lethal, there must be a baseline for comparison. Ban advocates and some courts attempt to make "assault weapons" like the AR seem unusually dangerous by comparing them to handguns, as seen in the quote above. The AR does fire higher-velocity bullets that impact with much greater force than handguns, but that is true of virtually all rifles. That handguns generally are less terminally effective than rifles is nothing new. But comparing the effects of AR bullets to handgun bullets to prove the exceptional lethality of "assault weapons" is like comparing a Prius to a Model T to prove the Prius is much faster than average automobiles.
Media articles that describe massive wounds from "assault weapons"—such as the ones quoted above—almost never describe or compare wounds caused by larger-caliber rifles or shotguns. The AR's wounding power is no more devastating than common hunting rifles, and typically less so (partly because its bullets are smaller). Dr. Fackler observes that at close range "the [twelve-gauge] shotgun (using either buckshot or a rifled slug) is far more likely to incapacitate than is a .223 rifle. The shotgun is simply a far more powerful weapon." Dr. P. K. Stefanopoulos, trauma surgeon and former career military officer who has written extensively on wound ballistics, confirms that at distances of less than ten feet "the shotgun produces the most devastating injuries of all small arms."
We agree that AR rifles, like every firearm, are dangerous when misused. The notion that AR rifles are unusually powerful compared to other rifles is false. Wounds caused by the AR typically are not more serious or lethal than wounds caused by larger-caliber hunting rifles, shotguns, and even some powerful handguns. These are demonstrable facts, supported by genuine firearms and wound ballistics experts.
This post was updated on March 20, 2023, for technical corrections in the last paragraph of II.A. and the history of twist rates in II.E.
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Throwing stars were outlawed because they are used scary Asians! You know the same people that unleashed a bioweapon into America that killed over a million Americans??
Me Chinese
Me play joke
Me put Covid in your throat!
People actually believe that a single bullet could cut completely through a waist to completely sever the body?
Not a .223 round from an AR15 but a .50BMG round could.
Isn't that an anti-vehicle round?
Its like 10 times bigger!
Anti-material round. Depends. It's frequently used as a sniper round.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82
According to our instructor the M2 round is for "Anti Materiel" use only. Soft sided enemy vehicles, aircraft, hardened bunkers, belt buckles and buttons on enemy officers, et. al.
And with the correct upper, can be fired from an AR-15. Though not in a semiautomatic mode. Single shot only.
Good luck in finding a lower. The magwel on an AR-15 is designed to hold a 45mm long round. The NATO designation for the cartridge is 5.56x45. 50 caliber BMG round is 12.7x99 NATO.
.50BMG uppers don't use the mag well of the AR-15 lower. They are generally bolt-action single-shot devices, IIRC.
*Completely* sever the body at the waist? It's only a half inch wide and while I have no doubt it would be lethal, when you think of all the *stuff* that holds a person together, ligaments, muscles and the rest, I highly doubt that one round would cut a body in half.
At least one American sailor in WWII stepped in front of a 20mm (.80" caliber) Oerlikon anti-aircraft cannon, got shot, and survived. He received the equivalent of a 12 gauge rifled shotgun slug wound, through and through penetration, no major bones bones hit to cause an energy dump.
I do not see how a .50 BMG wound could be worst than 20mm Oerlikon wound.
Maybe if you used one of the extra high velocity sabot rounds, in that case you can get around 4,000 fps out of a .50 BMG.
Depends a lot on impact velocity, point of impact/exit, and other circumstances. There are videos demonstrating the terminal effects of combat sniper .50's on varius tangos...
We don't call them intellectuals without good cause!
They're not unusually dangerous, and the left knows it. They just see it as a stepping stone to ban all guns
Sirhan Sirhan was pretty effective with his 22 caliber "Assault Revolver"
The messaging and spin these people use on AR’s is just mind-blowingly stupid. “Military style” “Assault weapons” etc.
Statistically speaking the most dangerous weapon in America is a young black man in a Democrat utopia.
Why aren’t they ever looking at what the data say?
Statistically speaking, only a minority of young black men make crime statistics, just as only a minority of AR style rifles are ever used in crime. The majority of young black men are not criminals. The vast majority of AR style rifles are not used by criminals.
Do "assault" knives next.
ask Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldstein
The irony here is that if weapons had remained connected to militia use, as was the case in Miller, then assault weapons would have a much better case. Indeed, automatic weapons are standard gear in any contemporary militia-type force.
But the Supreme Court disconnected them. And because it did, I don’t think that Professor Adler’s argument that past bans on particular weapons have no relevance to and provide no insight at all into current controversies is as slam-dunk a win of an argument as he appears to suggest it is.
Sorry, Professor Kopel’s arguments.
This is a heads you win tails I lose argument. The government has effectively banned automatic and select fire weapons for regular citizens. If SCOTUS had given us a decision that agreed with Miller then all manner of firearms would be legal today with little to no restrictions. After seeing the relatively mild decisions we got from Heller, Macdonald, and Bruen along with the resulting outcry from the hoplohobic left, can you imagine the hysteria that would have ensued from such a decision?
Also, none of these current cases are dealing with automatic weapons. The so-called "assault weapons" bans all deal with run of the mill semi autos.
There's nobody on the Court today who remembers America before the federal government started dabbling in gun control. The America of the Miller era, let alone pre-Miller, is a foreign nation to them. They may be intellectually aware that this country did just fine without any federal gun laws to speak of, with Americans free to own any firearm in existence. But on an emotional level they can't credit it.
It's going to be a long slog, rolling back a layer of gun control, the Court noticing that nothing outrageous happens, rolling back the next layer, rinse and repeat over and over again. But we'll get there in time if we can keep an honest Court for that long.
I have doubts we can, the left has all but completely taken over the legal academy, and we will soon have a serious shortage of conservative legal scholars to make judges of, and starting in a couple of decades, few experienced conservative judges to nominate to the Court.
Enjoy the next few decades, unless we start our own legal schools NOW, we won't enjoy what follows.
I don't think the potential supply of freedom-inclined lawyers will be the limiting factor.
You need to start winning elections post-Trump.
The Supreme Court never disconnected the RKBA from militia use, they merely said that possession and use of weapons for self defense is protected too.
It’s not either or, it’s all of the above.
Actually, that's the substance of what Scalia did to the Miller precedent in Heller:
" We may as well consider at this point (for we will have to consider eventually) what types of weapons Miller permits. Read in isolation, Miller’s phrase “part of ordinary military equipment” could mean that only those weapons useful in warfare are protected. That would be a startling reading of the opinion, since it would mean that the National Firearms Act’s restrictions on machineguns (not challenged in Miller) might be unconstitutional, machineguns being useful in warfare in 1939. We think that Miller’s “ordinary military equipment” language must be read in tandem with what comes after: “[O]rdinarily when called for [militia] service [able-bodied] men were expected to appear bearing arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time.” 307 U. S., at 179. The traditional militia was formed from a pool of men bringing arms “in common use at the time” for lawful purposes like self-defense. “In the colonial and revolutionary war era, [small-arms] weapons used by militiamen and weapons used in defense of person and home were one and the same.” State v. Kessler, 289 Ore. 359, 368, 614 P. 2d 94, 98 (1980) (citing G. Neumann, Swords and Blades of the American Revolution 6–15, 252–254 (1973)). Indeed, that is precisely the way in which the Second Amendment’s operative clause furthers the purpose announced in its preface. We therefore read Miller to say only that the Second Amendment does not protect those weapons not typically possessed by law-abiding citizens for lawful purposes, such as short-barreled shotguns. That accords with the historical understanding of the scope of the right, see Part III, infra"
So, by accepting the federal prohibition of private ownership of military weapons, and restricting the right to commonly possessed weapons, where what is commonly possessed has been warped by that prohibition, he really did stand Miller on its head. A case that said that private ownership of a weapon was only protected if it had military utility now, thanks to Scalia, is read as meaning that private ownership is only protected if it has civilian utility!
Brett, I didn’t like Scalia’s watering down of 2A any more than you did, but I believe you are overstating things.
Scalia wrote the “ordinary military equipment” language must be read in tandem with “arms supplied by themselves and of the kind in common use at the time” so we have an intersection of those sets, not an either/or situation. Scalia did not reject all arms that have a military utility, nor did he limit the protection to arms which are only useful for individual self-defense. He just left in place the existing bright line (full auto heavily restricted, semi-auto not). And that was likely only dicta since the question in Heller was separate from militia/collective defense considerations.
That is a hell of a lot better than the grabbers who argue that the right to keep and bear arms:
1) only protects those in the state militia
2) only protects arms which are not useful in civilized warfare.
The Court was WRONG.
Kopel’s arguments are familiar stuff to all of us who remember Clinton’s assault weapon ban thirty years ago. Sure, the distinction between assault weapons and other semi-automatic rifles is only military cosmetics, but it’s precisely that frou-frou that makes them the beloved weapon of choice for mass murderers – and also gun nuts, soldier-wanna-bes, the testosterone deficit, and men lacking an inch or three (or four).
So I’ve developed A Modest Proposal that will satisfy all. Of course continue selling assault weapons, but only out of hollow plastic with those rat-a-tat noise generators we enjoyed as kids running thru the backyard playing War.
Thus men who wanna play G.I.Joe can continue to do so without the inconvenience of a six-year hitch (which I found a long time). Mass murderers also get their favorite play toy, but can’t actually kill anyone. Everybody wins!
(you’re welcome)
Admittedly, looks played into the decision when I bought my Calico; I was trying to maximize the upraised finger to my former Congressman, Rep. "Comrade" Bonior. Turned out to be a fun plinking gun, though.
AR type rifles are actually recommended here in the South when hunting feral pigs, on account of their tendency to travel in groups and attack, rather than retreat from hunters. You actually may need the firepower. (There's no question of being "sporting" in hunting feral pigs, they're a damaging invasive species, no bag limit or season.)
Brett Bellmore : “There’s no question of being “sporting” in hunting feral pigs, they’re a damaging invasive species, no bag limit or season”
Many a mass-murderer has reached the same conclusion about people. You’ve almost convinced me there is some special killing distinction in assault weapons – beside their appeal to the inner-child of boys pretending they’re soldiers….
You know, I don't really care what conclusions mass murderers reach. I'm not inclined to let the preferences of mass murderers dictate what guns are available to the overwhelming majority of people, any more than I take into account the preferences of the creators of child porn in deciding what cameras will be available.
You don't restrict the choices of the vast sane majority, on the basis of what tiny deranged minorities think about things.
If you did, we would let the demographics of the average murderer determine race relations.
The misdeeds of criminals have no bearing on our Rights.
Are feral pigs edible?
Yes, though the meat is much more tough and gamey than the pork you buy at the grocery store.
Most mass shootings use handguns. Ironically, the first assault weapons ban in 1994 helped to make modern sporting rifles so popular. Anti-gunners cried about how effective they are and people took notice & realized they should check them out.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
Ah. The old "I don't have an honest argument to make so I will insult the penis size of gun owners" argument.
Yep. It's really interesting how fascinated anti-gunners are with other folk's genitalia.
That argument is like saying because red sports cars are the choice of drag-racing reckless drivers, that we should ban red paint.
"Sure, the distinction between assault weapons and other semi-automatic rifles is only military cosmetics, but it’s precisely that frou-frou that makes them the beloved weapon of choice for mass murderers – and also gun nuts, soldier-wanna-bes, the testosterone deficit, and men lacking an inch or three (or four)."
I can only presume that your parents taught you to never let facts get in the way of a grade-school insult rant.
I take it that you don’t have an AR-15 yourself.
They are, overall better guns. And that is the problem here - gun grabbers trying to freeze firearms technology to 1960 or so. Imagine being limited to 1960s computers, or telephones. Heck, that was about the time that DTMF was introduced. They should just fess up - they want to hobble gun owners by limiting them to obsolete technology.
Why do I say this? Because AR type guns are highly modular, allowing you to switch out optics, lights, stock, caliber, barrel length, etc, most often just by pulling two pins, then reinserting them. They also provide improved ergonomics. They can be (and very often are) adjustable to the size of the shooter. The sight line has been moved up, allowing the stock to be straightened, resulting in the force of the recoil traveling straight back to the shoulder, instead of higher, as was traditional, that caused the whole firearm to rotate around the shoulder. With the barrel in line with the shoulder, with an AR, there is no rotational force, minimizing muzzle climb, thus, yes, making follow up shots quicker and more accurate. They are also milder shooting, for a given bullet. Part of that is that there is most often a buffer tube in the stock (in line with the barrel and shoulder) that helps reduce the felt recoil of the guns. That means that for a given cartridge, they are almost always softer shooting. Finally, the pistol grip does two interrelated things. First it makes the gun more maneuverable. Secondly, it allows shooters to drop their elbows down, into a more natural shooting position for the human body. This, among other things allows for better accuracy and allows for quicker follow-up shots. This is what they are trying to do - hobble rifles and carbines by effectively eliminating most of the technological advances we have seen over the last >60 years
Why are your sort always obsessed with male genitalia?
Touch grass.
Touch grass.
Is this actually true? It's been a few years since I bought an AR, but I don't remember seeing any that weren't 5.56, and there don't appear to be any .223 models listed on Gallery of Guns right now (I just checked).
Mixed. Most civilian AR-15s are capable of firing both 223 & 556. It's sometimes used synonymously. Technically? Incorrect. Practically? Close enough most of the time. You still have to be careful when selecting components.
https://ammo.com/comparison/223-vs-556#wylde-chambert
Also, checking Gallery of Guns. I'm seeing stuff listed "5.56 NATO|223"
They are different but similar enough to use .223 in 5.56mm guns.
Actually, you don’t usually want to do that (.223 in a 5.56 barrel). The other way around is just fine - .223 shot through a 5.56 barrel.
As Clayton points out below, you can shoot .223 from a 5.56 gun safely, but not the other way around. So, I, for one, buy 5.56 instead of .223. Then, you can buy and safely shoot whichever caliber is cheapest at that time. There is also a .223 Wylde, that is supposed to be even better shooting both calibers.
Yes, I know that, and even if I hadn't known that before reading this post, I would have found out, becuase Prof. Kopel explains that in the section I'm quoting from. I'm asking about his specific claim that "most often" civilian ARs are not designed to shoot 5.56.
5.56 seems to be replacing .223 in gun stores. But other calibers are becoming more and more popular. I have several short barreled AR pistols that shoot .300 Blackout. Moreover, other calibers are becoming ever more poPular.
"Most often", yes.
However, they are available in a LOT of different calibers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AR_platform_cartridges
I'm temped to say, "Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."
It's anti-gun propaganda, being accurate isn't even a consideration.
Admittedly, introducing these sorts of lies in a sworn deposition is somewhat ballsy, but it's par for the course.
Well it is evidence introduced into court by "expert" witnesses and attorneys.
But the one thing we can be entirely confident about is that however absurd the "evidence" offerred up is, neither witnesses not attorneys need have any fear of sanctions.
You don't have to be too ballsy. Perjury prosecutions arising from litigation are virtually nonexistent despite the occurrence of perjury in a massive portion of cases.
So why do mass shooters prefer AR’s? (Fifty words or less.)
They don't.
The media influencing public opinion about how dangerous they are to people who often don't know better. Most mass shooters are not long term firearms enthusiasts. They are using what they have seen "advertised" on CNN, et al.
(38 words.)
https://www.steynonline.com/8162/theory-of-the-case
Do they?
Perhaps they fall for the anti-gunners' descriptions? Mass shooters are not, after all, representative of gun owners as a group. If so, the anti-gunners may be doing to world an unintended service by diverting them into using less effectual arms.
There you go, only fifty words.
To the extent your premise is accurate, I'd imagine it's for the same reasons they're popular with everyone else (except ordinary criminals, who virtually never use them): they're relatively cheap, ubiquitous, and effective—although a mass shooting seems like the environment where their operational advantages would be least availing.
captcrisis asks why mass shooters prefer ARs. He gets obvious weaseling in response. So here’s the 500lb gorilla the above four answers ignore :
Why do mass murders prefer assault weapons? Because they are designed & marketed to look like very, very cool tools for killing other human beings. They are designed & marketed to appear like military weapons, whose sole function is to kill other human beings. The manufacturers of assault weapons leave no trick untried in their effort to produce, advertise & sell the coolest-looking tool for killing other humans imaginable.
That explains their popularity among the mass-killing sort, as well as their popularity in general. Why pretend otherwise?
That's exactly right.
Look, I'm way off the reservation here; I think the 2nd Amendment is about ensuring an armed populace for the defense of the country, and in THAT context I could be persuaded to allow for an individual right to keep and bear some pretty deadly military style weapons (subject to intense regulation and discipline, of course).
And further, I have been persuaded and remain persuaded that a lot of "assault weapons bans" don't ban the most dangerous weapons at all, but weapons that LOOK really dangerous.
But in the world we actually live in, and the gun culture we actually have, it's absolutely unsurprising why really bad people like these types of weapons-- because they are portrayed as badass weaponry. Calendars are sold of women in bikinis holding AR-15's and AK-47's. People collect them and acquire thousands of rounds to go along with them. Our movies glorify them.
A right that is in the Constitution for a reason-- perhaps not a good one, but a reason-- has instead just a platform for some masculinity-challenged men to develop a fetish towards an object that should instead be a tool treated with a great deal of respect, veneration, and caution. It's sick.
What is the weapon of choice for most of the shootings and subsequent deaths in so many of our major cities (which mostly go unreported on)? How many of these events are committed by lawful gun owners?
The weapon of choice is small caliber hand guns. Historically this meant a 6-Shot .380 revolver (Saturday night special). Why? Cheap, easily concealed, light. More recently (past 10 years?) this has changed to 9mm semi-autos like Glocks.
"masculinity-challenged men to develop a fetish"
Rule 34 may exist but the idea that many gunowners have a sexual fetish is beyond dumb. I'm surprised you would make it.
Hobbyists get enthused about their hobby, that's all.
Why do you think the only type of fetish is sexual?
(Having said that, the notion that these things are symbols of masculinity and potency is in no way crazy.)
Only considered non crazy by gunphobes.
Oh come on. I KNOW gun owners who hate the gun culture, and specifically think that the frivolous and yes, sexual way in which some gun owners treat guns is horrifying.
Oddly, I know no one like that.
You know people who seen guns sexually? Weird friends.
To be fair, he did specify "gun owners who hate the gun culture", so we're talking psychologically deranged gun owners to begin with. And rule 34 applies.
I had tp a search.
"Rule 34: If it exists, there is porn of it. Pokemon, my little pony, ..."
You guys think that everyone who owns a gun is like you. That may be the greatest error of the many you make on this issue.
I would say not so much masculinity-challenged men as those who recognize the fiercely totalitarian society that our elites want.
On the hobby or fetish question re Gun Nut culture, I tend to believe fetish, but no matter. There's an interesting distinction either way. Everybody has hobbies (mine include backpacking, wreck diving and Japanese prints), but no one thinks their hobby is inherently noble or critically important.
Likewise fetishists. My best guess is if you get a group of crossdressers together they'd happily natter away about heels & gridles without ever trying to convince themselves western civilization depended on their existence.
Not so with Gun Nuts. Collect just a handful and inevitable you hear how they heroically stare down totalitarianisms. They puff out their thin reedy chests and brag about their importance. You don't see that psychological need with any other hobbyist or fetishist.
However, it is also true that few other hobbies have a strong connection with the Bill of Rights.
That may explain the "puzzling" connection you've noticed.
-stares in world history-
"People collect them and acquire thousands of rounds to go along with them."
I'm curious how many times you've gone to the range to practice, and how many rounds you think someone may go through in a single 1-2 hour session.
I'll even give you the gift of presuming that we're talking about just a single firearm.
Thousands of rounds of ammunition is not cheap.
In addition to going to ranges and family property for target practice, I often participate in a full season of military rifle matches at the gun club: seven matches Mar – Oct, in modern, vintage modern, and vintage rifle (3 x twenty shots for score x 7 = 420 rounds). Then there are rounds for sight adjustment, function check after repair, etc. Finding a thousand rounds a year (seeking bargains) is a huge part of the prep. I have learned to try to maintain five years supply due to frequent droughts in calibers like .30 Carbine. The frequent threats by Democrats to ban or sin tax ammo to unavailibility is an incentive to maintain a stock pile.
Ah, so your complaint is about marketing.
That's the FIRST Amendment, and you don't get to violate that either.
The traditional stupid gotcha question is "why did you stop beating your wife?".
As long as you want mythical answers to stupid questions, fire away.
Handguns most common mass shooting implement.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/476409/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-weapon-types-used/
With the new defining down of "mass shootings" to gun fights between street gangs with four or more wounded, mass shootings have sky rocketed over years past when a "mass shooting" was defined as four or more dead.
Yes, I think people prefer the cool looking gun. But if the cool looking gun didn't exist, would mass murders use a gun with wood furniture instead? I think they would.
Stockton mass murder was with a wood stocked gun.
"designed & marketed to look like very, very cool tools for killing other human beings. " I never see ads like that. The ads I see emphasize accuracy, customization capabilities.
They don’t. You believe in a narrative that has zero basis in fact. There are links in this very thread that prove that mass shooters do not use AR’s in general.
Why can’t you anti-gunners try being honest?
Except that the assertion you base your argument on is, at best, a fabrication.
Actually, it's an outright lie that you can't provide proof for.
Per the FBI Crime Statistics (and every other credible source), they don't. 12 words.
Additional commentary (still under 50 words):
When you start with a false premise, don't be surprised that you get worthless results.
Assumes facts not in evidence.
Mass murderers use handgun far more often. The dying legacy media emphasize the AR-15 to get clicks, and also tell unstable people what to buy if they want to go out in a swarm of infamy.
Captcrisis, I can do that:.
Would-be killers who could never manage a .44 magnum pistol, can readily manage an AR-style weapon. By that choice, they get notably more muzzle energy with each shot, get many more shots without reloading, get interchangeable magazines, and thus kill far more people with less effort.
To those 46 words I add that Kopel is shoveling bullshit. You have to keep your eye on the pea. Kopel chooses weasel words to disparage testimony he knows to be substantively correct. He then accuses the witness he attacks of irresponsibility. After that he reaches for a cherry-picked counter-example, while staying mum on other competent evidence to the contrary. Of course all of that is SOP for gun pedants, and Kopel is a museum-quality gun pedant.
So where are the decapitated bodies from AR-15 mass murders. These crimes take place at very short range where the bullet is at maximum energy.
Why limit to mass murder? How about any homicide or suicide anywhere in the world.
So where are the decapitated bodies from AR-15 mass murders.
Cramer, you may think that a fair question, but it assumes bad faith. If doctors examining human remains at the Parkland shooting scene describe generally what they saw, it takes disgusting effrontery to call them liars, as Kopel did. And of course the public is denied access to the photographic record.
On the basis of personal experience I do not find claims of horrific wounds implausible.
I have only seen one person shot dead, a security guard who took a pistol bullet to the head about a minute before I entered an all-night McDonalds in DC, during the 1960s. There was a pool of blood; I did not see if there was an exit wound. So perhaps that is an example on your side.
But I have hunted game large and small, and killed many animals with rifles and shotguns. I have seen more deer and elk killed by hunting companions than I can count. I killed some deer myself, but mostly preferred to hunt small game and birds. I did hunt elk, saw plenty, but never found one close enough to a road to justify taking a shot. I didn't have access to horses to get elk meat out of the backcountry. So what I can tell you about first-hand is hunting experience on both sides of human scale, or in the case of mule deer, about at human scale.
On the small side, I shot a lot of cottontails. For those, I used a Winchester lever action chambered for a .22 magnum rimfire cartridge, which you can look up and discover is far less powerful than a .223. The usual range was between 75-feet, and maybe 150-feet. The usual result was a rabbit shot in the head, with about half the head remaining, and the rest blown away. It could be hard to look at, but a rabbit shot that way never suffered, and all the meat was good. A lot of folks would have described that as decapitation, and I think been justified to do it.
For deer hunting I used first a .30-30 Winchester, with one success, later a .308 Browning lever action, which I got rid of as too uncomfortable to fire, before shooting anything but a few targets with it, and finally a Ruger .270 bolt action rifle, with which I had several more successes shooting mule deer.
Hunting companions I joined in the field carried a large variety of other weapons. One had a 7mm magnum of some kind. Several carried the .30-06 from various manufacturers. One had a Savage lever action, in a caliber I do not remember. I hunted a few times with my brother, who carried a .243. Perhaps the most unusual gun was a Spanish–American War relic, a .30-40 Krag carried by a good friend who got it from his dad, who had been in the Spanish–American war. My friend used his relic sparingly—only a target shot or two per year—because he only had two boxes of cartridges left. He shot deer and elk with it, as he had been doing since boyhood.
Most of the large game I saw killed did not suffer horrific exterior wounds, although I still do not understand why gun advocates think fighting that question matters at all. They all died.
But on three occasions I saw appalling results, twice from exit wounds. One involved a deer which spilled its stomach and guts out of an enormous exit wound, maybe created by a piece of rib which was shot away as the bullet passed obliquely through the body from just behind the front shoulder. Another instance involved a deer shot obliquely from behind, a shot which my hunting companion should not have taken. The animal bounded for a hundred yards or so before dying, with its bladder hanging out of the exit wound. One other instance involved a deer which suffered what amounted to an amputation of a fore-leg, when someone's errant .30-06 shot struck the humerus bone. The leg remained attached, but dangled sickeningly while the animal was tracked and finished off by a second shot.
Pretty much all the big game I saw shot was struck at a range of approximately 100–175 yards, with a few animals shot closer than 100 yards.
That personal record is not data. I think it contains examples enough to counter peculiar-seeming blanket denials that suggest gunshot wounds are rarely horrific.
There is one other point which may justify mention. Mass killers strike me as likely sadists. The records of mass shootings, and especially mass school shootings, suggest a lot of shots get fired. Why would anyone suppose each victim gets only one bullet, neatly placed? Perhaps accounts of horrific wounds which Kopel presumes to call lies, were in fact the result from damage by multiple shots, facilitated by the AR-style rifle's design purpose—to enable a lot of bullets which are deadly enough, to be carried, and to be fired in a short period of time.
As quoted by the California Attorney General in the Rupp v. Bonta filing: “The AR-15 and M4 are both designed to fire a .223 round that tumbles upon hitting flesh and rips thru the human body. A single round is capable of severing the upper body from the lower body, or decapitation.” — Colonel Craig Tucker (who is a founding member of Veterans Advisory Council to Everytown for Gun Safety)
It reads to me that your hunting experience with more powerful rifle rounds than .223/5.56 showed no severing of the upper body from the lower body and no total decapitation.
The Rupp v. Bonta filing contains the kind of rhetorical excess used to promote malum prohibitum policies on demon rum, reefer madness, comic books seducing innocents into juvenile deliquency.
There are huge anatomical diferences you have ignored, between a rabbit’s head, deer’s leg and a human torso or head/neck. And huge ballistic differences between a 5.56mm round, and the calibers you mentioned.
But we expect such lies of ommision from your sort.
Notably, Shovel Lathrop provides no proof to his claims.
How did I know that 1) you would make some kind of stupid remark about firearms and 2) you wouldn't back any of it up with evidence other than your pomposity?
You know as much about firearms as you do about the role of tanks in combined arms operations.
Mass murderers point and shoot. Stephen Lathrop points and sputters.
LOL Whut?
That's what gun banners tell them will make them infamous for a few days.
Can you point me to a link where that is even alleged? Other than someone’s narrative.
They don’t, National Institute of Justice: “Notably, most individuals who engaged in mass shootings used handguns (77.2%), and 25.1% used assault rifles in the commission of their crimes. ”
Yeah, I know that doesn’t add up to 100%, but it’s literally close enough for government work. And I am also skeptical that no shotguns or other types of rifles were used in any of the events, every thing is handguns or assault rifles. Even Cis-males aren't completely binary.
https://nij.ojp.gov/topics/articles/public-mass-shootings-database-amasses-details-half-century-us-mass-shootings
From a Congressional hearing in 1967: testimony of Eugene Stoner, who invented the AR-15:
Ichord (D-MO) : One army boy told me that he had shot a Vietcong near the eye with an M-14 [which uses a substantially heavier bullet] and the bullet did not make too large a hole on exit, but he shot a Vietcong under similar circumstances in the same place with an M-16 and his whole head was reduced to pulp. This would not appear to make sense. You have greater velocity but the bullet is lighter.
stoner: There is the advantage that a small or light bullet has over a heavy one when it comes to wound ballistics. … What it amounts to is the fact that bullets are stabilized to fly through the air, and not through water, or a body, which is approximately the same density as the water. And they are stable as long as they are in the air. When they hit something, they immediately go unstable. … If you are talking about .30-caliber [like a bullet used in the M-14], this might remain stable through a human body. … While a little bullet, being it has a low mass, it senses an instability situation faster and reacts much faster. … this is what makes a little bullet pay off so much in wound ballistics.
This story doesn't have anything to do with the bullet. It's an explanation of why they were called zipperheads.
Let's extend that a little. Shoot someone with a six foot long 2700 pound 16" naval shell. Will it tumble when it hits?
No surprise that a bigger longer heavier bullet can't tumble as much when it hits flesh.
If tumbling is what scares you, then ban .17 rifles first.
The OP addresses this. Originally these rifles were made with a very slow rifling twist rate. The bullets were barely stable in air and at longer distances were less accurate. With the current twist rates for these rifles the bullets are much more stable and much less prone to destabilization when they hit the target.
This appears to be an argument in favor of requiring assault weapons to use heavier bullets.
The vast majority of AR-15 rifles are chambered in 5.56 NATO because people want to shoot surplus military ammo. Because it’s cheaper, and to the extent there’s a difference with .223, you want to be able to shoot both, safely.
And by extension, most AR-15 ammo, bought and used, is "military spec" ammo. Either 55 grain XM193, or 62 grain XM855 (or equivalent).
XM193 is cheaper, and typically better for "soft" targets. XM855 has a steel core and is usually better at penetrating things. But less likely to fragment in bodies.
But regardless, people are buying the same calibers and ammunition that the military uses. (with the exception of the latest M855A1 ammo).
Big difference between .223 Remington and 5.56×45 NATO is that .223 Remington is frozen to the Sporting Arms and Ammunition specification of 1962, while NATO militaries have changed 5.56x45mm specs over the years, mostly to improve range (and to make the cartridge tougher to withstand rough handling).
Gun nuts are among my favorite culture war casualties.
The cost of gun absolutism for those who hitched the political wagons to the right-wing electoral coalition (anti-abortion absolutists, for another example) is likely to be severe as the culture war continues along a relatively predictable trajectory. I hope the right to possess a reasonable firearm for self-defense in the home survives the relatively predictable mainstream backlash against gun nuttery.
"I hope the right to possess a reasonable firearm for self-defense ..."
The firearm your local civilian police officer carries is exactly that, a reasonable firearm for self-defense. Self-defense is the reason why such firearms are carried. It is absurd and contradictory to assert that such firearms are not reasonable for civilian self defense.
If I were making up rules on who can carry what weapons, I would say anything used by police is fair game for civilians. If a state accepts military surplus weapons for law enforcement then ordinary people can arm themselves with miltary surplus weapons. If a state says police departments can't own long guns then long guns can be limited to hunters only, and only at the range or in hunting season.
Correct. Many ordinary patrol cops carry AR/M4s in their trunk.
And in Idaho, police carry AR-15s in the trunk. One of the Boise County schools bought gun safes and AR-15s when they realized the nearest police department was 30 minutes away.
That’s real clever. Except the militarization of the police came in response to the armed populace. The first wake up call was the North Hollywood Shootout when outgunned and out-armored police struggled to eventually kill two bank robbers after close to an hourlong exchange in the late nineties. A few short years later comes 9/11 and Iraq II, and the militarization of police hit the turbojets when the folks who sell such things began to get their groove on (and all those Homeland Security bucks).
>Except the militarization of the police came in response to the armed populace
No, it came from federal grant money that needed spending, and surplus armored personnel carriers.
I get that they’re more involved than a simple noun-verb-punctuation arrangement but it’s still only three sentences. You could only read the first one?
The North Hollywood shootout was in 1997.
The first SWAT teams were created in Philadelphia in 1964, and were trained to use military weapons and tactics. Unless you want to claim grenade launchers were standard non-military police gear?
The LAPD SWAT teams were founded in 1965. By 1980, there were hundreds of SWAT teams in departments around the country.
Last I checked, 1997 was a few years later than 1964.
They are weapons of war, so we issue them to police.
So you have no factual response?
He never does.
Fact: If gun enthusiasts do not help to identify and implement an effective method of diminishing the gun-related carnage, that failure will incline other Americans to solve the problem for them — and the predictable trajectory of the culture war likely will make conservative gun nuts powerless to prevent it.
Well, it's a theory.
I think it is more likely that mass gun confiscation (even with the lawful repeal of the 2nd Amendment) would result in a USA with fewer than 50 states.
NPC ALERT
Is that why support for A/W bans is now less than 50%?
The victors of the culture war will benefit from several advantages and privileges. Gun nuts hardest hit.
"It is difficult to understand how a Marine colonel with combat infantry experience would think the M4 is designed for the .223 round."
Not if you realize he a lying weasel propogandist for Bloomberg.
It suggests he is "not a detail person".
Excellent choice for an "expert witness", I must say.
You want volume of fire and lethal results?
Get your self a WWI SMLE and practice up on the 'mad minute'.
Bolt action, unbannable rifle, deadly as hell with training.
(OK, it does have a bayonet lug, so they will go after it as soon as they get the semi-autos)
I've quit posting the link, go look it up.
I spent an afternoon, well an hour of an afternoon, trying to do a mad minute. Best I got was 16 rounds fired in one minute, 10-12 on target. I was shooting at a standard 8x11 target at 100 feet, which is roughly equivalent to a 4 foot wide soldier at 200 yards. I figured with a little more ammo and practice, I could qualify as a cook or other REMF.
The SMLE has a very short bolt throw, and one technique is to work the bolt with thumb and forefinger while firing with the middle finger.
(What I love about this is that it is aimed fire, not spray and pray)
There were reports of German assaults going against a good British unit in trenches, and the survivors reporting they were up against multiple machine guns.
Sorry to be pedantic, but how much shorter is the bolt throw? The .303 cartridge is only 1mm shorter than 8mm Mauser. I thought one of the touted benefits was the 'cock on opening' as opposed to most other rifles 'cock on closing'? The 10 rd mag is also a huge advantage when everyone else only has 5.
Bolt throw includes the distance the bolt handle is lifted from it's in battery position. Enfield is about 2/3 of the Mauser.
My .303 Lee Enfield No.1 MkIII* (made by BSA in 1917) cocks on closing and the locking lugs are at the rear so bolt throw is very short compared to the Mauser 98 rifle with front locking lugs that necessitate a longer bolt throw.
Or do what one early 20th century German mass murderer did: bring 8 revolvers.
The muskets around at the time the Second Amendment was ratified would be classified as highly regulated "destructive devices" today if they were breech loading. They have a caliber over half an inch. (Much like a 12 gauge shotgun, which must be granted special dispensation by the federal government before being sold to the public.) Many years ago I read an article about shooting ballistic gel with different guns. The winner in destructive effect was an old fashioned musket ball because it was so big.
There are a lot of facts in the post. But the privilege of being a trial court judge is refusing to believe some of the evidence presented. The record that reaches the appeals court may have the decapitation story and not the alternative.
Both the range and the muzzle velocity of a projectile fired from an AR-15 are 2-3 times greater than one fired from a Founding-era musket.
Chances of survival (antibiotics, modern medical care) at least 2x-3x better.
Of course Americans could buy cannon and canister shot. One of those could kill dozens with one shot.
Incidentally, "slungshots"? You don't modify nouns on account of tense, they're still slingshots even if you're talking about them in the past tense.
According to Wikipedia, a slungshot is not a slingshot. It is a weight on a rope, something you can swing to smash into somebody.
Correct. As my cited articles explained.
My apologies, then. Thought I was making a joke about a typo.
A "slungshot" aka "slingshot" is a weight with a strap (such as a window sash weight) basically used as a "blackjack" (which is not a Jack of Clubs or Spades).
I have a sash weight in my tool kit that I use as a hammer for light tapping. If I were caught with it in my pocket walking the city street, I could be charged with carrying a prohibited weapon under state law on going armed in public.
When I was practicing law, I told my expert witnesses to refute what the other side's expert said, and then shut up. That would have been good advice in this case.
“Dr. Fackler observes that at close range “the [twelve-gauge] shotgun (using either buckshot or a rifled slug) is far more likely to incapacitate than is a .223 rifle. The shotgun is simply a far more powerful weapon.” Dr. P. K. Stefanopoulos, trauma surgeon and former career military officer who has written extensively on wound ballistics, confirms that at distances of less than ten feet “the shotgun produces the most devastating injuries of all small arms.””
Hence the reason I chose the 12 Ga Mossberg Persuader loaded with 00 Buck as our primary home defense weapon. I own several other guns, both rifle and handgun, but at 3AM and someone’s in the house it’s the shotgun I’m going to grab. I figure I get one shot, so make it count.
and its Senescent Joe's Weapon of Choice when Cornpop shows up
Even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut.
Better be prepared for more than one shot. Home invasions can have two or three assailants.
OK, one for everyone who doesn't run after the 1st shot.
People high may not make good decisions.
I had two friends in L.A. with three person home invasions. Why I bought my first handgun.
And not surprisingly, shotguns are used in many murders: Navy Yard; ESL in the 1980s.
Navy Yard Shooting 2013; ESL shooting 1988
Wikipedia Articles:
Washington_Navy_Yard_shooting
Richard_Farley
Just a thought. As you say, "These handguns, from companies such as Ruger, Smith & Wesson, Springfield, or Glock, are the most common defensive firearms in the United States". They certainly are protected firearms under Heller. So what purpose(s) exactly do AR-15-type firearms serve? Are they better for hunting than deer rifles, bows, and crossbows? Have you listened to the audio recordings from the Las Vegas Massacre, when the gunman used bump stocks to increase his rate of fire? Bump stocks, by the way, are now protected AR-15 accessories. Or are AR-15's in fact simply penis extensions for their insecure owners?
Modern sporting rifles are just that, improvements upon technology that's been around the decades. Older rifles weren't built with the idea of easy customization. New rifles can easily switch out stocks & fore ends, add optics & lights, sometimes easily change calibers. These options allow you to customize a firearm for a specific purpose & have another set of accessories to swap it to another.
There are also the improved ergonomics & the vast aftermarket from the adoption of a common platform.
I like, "modern sporting rifles," because it reminds me of an earlier lobbyists' term I also enjoyed: "Whisper Jet." That one showed up after the first 727s made their debut, and folks began to realize how appallingly loud they were on takeoff. One airline instructed its pilots to instruct their kids to say, "My dad flies whisper jets."
Ask Mrs King
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/home-invader-fatally-shot-florida-pregnant-woman-ar-15-n1076026
The author of the Second Amendment in Federalist 46 explained why a tyrannical President was not a threat:
The highest number to which, according to the best computation, a standing army can be carried in any country, does not exceed one hundredth part of the whole number of souls; or one twenty-fifth part of the number able to bear arms. This proportion would not yield, in the United States, an army of more than twenty-five or thirty thousand men. To these would be opposed a militia amounting to near half a million of citizens with arms in their hands, officered by men chosen from among themselves, fighting for their common liberties, and united and conducted by governments possessing their affections and confidence. It may well be doubted, whether a militia thus circumstanced could ever be conquered by such a proportion of regular troops. Those who are best acquainted with the last successful resistance of this country against the British arms, will be most inclined to deny the possibility of it. Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.
Never explained by Madison, how come the federal government can only raise 30,000, but the states in the aggregate (amounting to the same population), can raise 16 times as many. Peculiar that.
Of course Madison was echoing Hamilton, and Hamilton when he wrote in support of the militia was lying. Mostly, Hamilton hated the militia. He thought privately that state militias were not only security threats, but otherwise incompetent, insubordinate, and useless militarily. That was the impression Hamilton came away with after serving as Washington's chief aide during the revolution. Washington was no fan of the militias either.
But I suppose I ought to at least thank Clayton Cramer for highlighting the salience of the militia clause in historical context.
It was a Tennessee militia, the Over Mountain Boys, who defeated Gen Ferguson and his Loyalist force at King's Mountain, North Carolina, giving the American Revolution a win after a string of losses.
To have a 1790s standing army of full time soldiers required forts, army barracks, mess halls, arsenals, and other expenses including soldiers’ pay. A standing army had to be maintained at great expense so there was a Army limit of about 30,000 on the 1790s.
To have a 1790s volunteer militia, you had periodic militia musters where the enrolled members showed up with their own regulation weapons meeting military standards, and their other gear, for training. A huge organized militia could be easily maintained relative to the standing Army. Mostly infantry for local defense perhaps, but they freed up the standing army to meet an invader’s standing army.
An even larger “unorganized militia” is the entire population of persons qualified to volunteer for militia or Army service but not enrolled in the organized militia or the Army.
Bump stocks are examples of a clever design working around an old law. Democrats in Congress could have revised the law; remember Trump backed the bump stock ban. Why did Democrats not revise the law when they still controlled Congress? Democrats find mass murders politically useful.
They may have still had some residual flinch reflex after the political cost of the '94 AWB. It's not like they were aware that the NRA was in a mood to throw more gun owners under the bus, and would sign off on the ban.
AR-15's ARE "deer rifles".
And if they make you think about male genitalia, you need some professional mental health counseling, ASAP.
Personally, I've never thought of attaching a firearm of any sort to my penis as some sort of extension. In terms of the round fired, my penis is going to be shooting a smaller caliber round than the AR, and the muzzle velocity will certainly not match up with an AR's. When I have used my penis for its purpose (procreation, of course), I have yet to decapitate my wife or cut her in half at the waist, but, according to the article, even had I shot her with an AR, I would have accomplished neither.
Regarding the purpose of the AR 15, Daddyhill is obviously having some sort of reading malfunction, as the authors mentioned several reasons/purposes for owning one (or twenty). I don't own one because I have plenty of other guns, and purchasing an AR-15 would require me to buy a new caliber of ammunition (whether the .223 or 5.56). However, I know women who like ARs because they don't have the same recoil as other hunting rifles (e.g. a standard Remington 30.06 would cause serious damage to a small female's or male's shoulder), and I know ex-military who like them because they got used to the feel of M16s while in the service. I haven't asked either group about the penis connection, but, since women (real, biological women, not she-males) don't have them, it seems inapposite, and, since the military doesn't allow its male soldiers to attach M16s to their respective penises (as far as I know), it doesn't seem reasonable to assume that they would suddenly want to do such a silly thing after leaving the military (perhaps, they might start by attaching a bayonet to their penises and then work their way up).
Unmentioned by Kopel, and thus unreckoned in his lethality comparisons: the light recoil of the AR-style weapon, and readily interchangeable magazines. Both factors add appreciably to the deadly convenience which fans of AR-style weapons favor.
More generally, all comparisons of relative gun power based on single factors like ballistics become distractions from the more-relevant comparisons of lethality based on synergistic combinations of deadly features. And of course, it is in that latter comepetition where the AR-style weapon excels.
Handguns are even lighter recoil and just as easy (sometimes easier) to do a magazine swap. Doubtless why handguns are used more often for mass murders,
And the light recoil of the 5.56 round coupled with detachable (not interchangeable) magazines is also present in the Ruger Mini-14. So why does that gun not offend you?
It's not black. Remember that Roberti-Roos Assault Weapons Control Act was introduced to disarm gangs in inner cities. The Stock mass murder just made it easier to pass. Black Rifles Matter!
A white bigot joke. How predictable.
_ Light recoil (no bruised shoulder) and
_ the ability to unload/reload without having to cycle multiple rounds through a fixed magazine.
are not necessarily evil features to have in a gun and are not exclusive to ARs.
"Both factors add appreciably to the deadly convenience which fans of AR-style weapons favor."
Lathrop's only capable of seeing a boogeyman everywhere. Lost on his kind is the fact that people's shoulders will hurt a lot less maintaining their proficiency with the weapon, and more time can be spent training with less time required to reload the weapon all the time.
But hey - those two features are desired because MURDERERZ, not because of any reasonable purpose desired by the millions of people who own these weapons without murdering anyone on a daily basis.
You're a fucking fool, Lathrop.
I had read that one factor in selection of the M16 to replace the M14 was that the 5.56 rounds resulted in fewer fatal wounds, and the idea was that the enemy would suffer a greater loss in combat effectiveness if they had to recover and save a wounded comrade than if he were shot stone dead. Does that turn out to be BS?
Also, if the 5.56 is such a scary round, I guess that means they don’t want to ban rifles that fire 7.62 rounds, right?
What about lever action rifles firing large rounds — they OK?
Winchester advertised them 1865-1868 (when the 14th Amendment incorporated the Second Amendment) as two shots a second. That is not much slower than an AR-15. There are speedloaders available for lever action rifles; very fast.
There are also lever action rifles (Savage & Browning come to mind) that use detachable magazines. Thus, could be chambered in calibers much more powerful than traditional lever action calibers.
Wait until mass murderers start doing slow careful fire from protected positions like at Highland Park, Ill. Every "sniper rifle" (bolt action and lever action) will be capable of silent murders from adjoining counties. Oh yes, trucks and cars commonly used in Europe to kill more than the Las Vegas mass murderer and sometimes used in America,
JohnSteed — For a not-very-long interval I hunted deer with a lever-action Browning, chambered for .308. Kicked so hard it was nearly useless. After one or two attempts, I couldn't bring myself anymore to shoot targets with it. Couldn't stand the punishment. Traded it in for a bolt-action Ruger .270. Much better. I hunted for years with that one. But I don't think almost anyone would choose either one of those for mass murder.
It's hard to tell, but are you suggesting that if "assault weapons" are banned, mass-murderers would not simply switch to wooden-stocked semiautomatic rifles, which fire the same ammunition in the same capacities from functionally identical mechanisms, because that would not give them the same visceral satisfaction?
I don't think a lot of anti-gun types realize how gun designs have changed in the last few decades. A year or two ago Moms Demand put out a 'we need to ban these weapons of war' tweet with a picture of one of these, which is a bolt action rimfire. Wood on guns is going the way of wood on cars.
ObviouslyNotSpam — No. I am suggesting that notable public danger created by the AR-style rifle results not from any particular characteristic. It is instead the result of a tailored list of features which gun designers combined on purpose to optimize capacity to use a gun for aggressive purposes. Those include:
– Semi-automatic operation to enable high rates of fire
– Quickly interchangeable magazines
– Light recoil
– High-velocity ammunition designed to be merely sufficiently lethal when targeting humans, but also lightweight and inexpensive, to facilitate large quantities of ammunition to be purchased and carried.
The full public risk of AR-style gun designs occurs when all those features are present together. Subtract any one of those features from the mix, and the public danger diminishes. Other weapons which do not combine that specific mix of features, do not create a comparable public risk.
The gun advocates who comment here mostly understand that it is that combination of characteristics which gives the AR-style weapon its special appeal as a choice for armed combat. Their passionate defense of the AR-style weapon is motivated by a desire to avail themselves of that aggressive capacity.
Gun advocates’ pro-AR blather on the internet is mostly motivated by a desire not to talk forthrightly in public about what they really want. They sensibly attempt to minimize public opposition to mass civilian purchases of arms designed specifically for aggressive purposes. So they talk instead about shooting feral pigs, and the urgent need to be sufficiently armed if the pigs mass for attack.
If folks who want AR-style weapons were of a mind to think otherwise, and to focus on a shooting purpose other than offensive gun use, they would mostly choose something else. Any number of weapons exist which excel the AR-style weapon for almost every other kind of shooting activity. Hunting, target shooting, gun safety training, and day-to-day police work are all served better by other specialized gun designs optimized for those purposes. Even the legitimate purposes of personal self-defense, and home defense, are better served by other designs.
The purposes where the AR-style weapons excel those other designs involve premeditated mass killing of people. Those encompass a range of possibilities. The best fit of design to purpose contemplates mission-style attacks on pre-chosen targets where armed opposition might need to be suppressed, and the objective accomplished after mass slaughter of adversaries.
Of course the typical AR-style purchaser does not actually plan to take things that far. He may desire merely to threaten such a capacity, for instance if he seeks to accomplish political intimidation, by a display of aggressive arms in public. Or, for idle enjoyment, he may entertain a more-elaborate fantasy tailored to AR-style offensive capabilities, for instance a fantasy of armed insurrection. He could be a frightened survivalist, worried about no-holds-barred combat over stored food reserves—possibly even food reserves owned by others. Or he might envision himself in a heroic role, among a group of self-appointed suppressors of large-scale public disorder. Or the AR-style purchaser may have near-term practical considerations in mind, such as military-style combat in support of a criminal objective, such as a terrorist attack to gain access to high-level nuclear waste stored at a nearby nuclear reactor. Or he might seek force multiplication, to empower a lone-wolf attack, and to suppress intervention by law enforcement long enough to shoot up a school.
Whatever the mind-set, the well-informed choice to buy an AR-style weapon will be a choice to prioritize capacity to carry out aggressive attacks on people. The decision to make the purchase signifies willingness to prioritize that ahead of other shooting objectives, for which other firearms designs would serve better. Of course most AR-style purchasers are decent people, and hope such aggressive shooting needs will never arrive.
"Gun advocates’ pro-AR blather on the internet is mostly motivated by a desire not to talk forthrightly in public about what they really want."
If only you were as motivated as you claim others are to not talk.
"I switched guns because my poor shoulder really hurt, but people who buy the AR-15 because it has less recoil are obviously motivated by murderous fantasies."
You are an idiot with no self-awareness whatsoever.
The advantage of an AR-15 over a Glock 19 with a 33 round magazine is range and accuracy. Neither of which are generally needed for mass shootings. While many mass shooters use ARs, there's zero evidence that the absence of ARs would reduce either the number of mass shootings or the lethality of them.
"both the AR-15 and M4 contain barrel rifling to make the round tumble"
If it was tumbling coming out of the barrel, then the odds of it staying on course are nonexistant.
Here is a list of rifle cartridge killing power, .223's have the lowest killing power which is why many states don't allow them for deer hunting.
I have a .357 lever action, that has twice the killing power of a .223 despite using a cartridge designed for a handgun
"Rifle Cartridge Killing Power List
By Chuck Hawks
Here is the formula:
Energy (in foot pounds) x Sectional Density (taken from reloading manuals) x cross-sectional Area (in square inches) = Killing Power Score. (Round off to one decimal place for convenience.)
E x SD x A = KPS
The most important factor in killing power, by far, is bullet placement.
(Cartridge, bullet weight in grains, muzzle velocity in feet per second - killing power score at 100 yards.)
.223 Remington (60 grain at 3000 fps) - 6.3
.223 WSSM (64 grain at 3600 fps) - 10.1
.243 Winchester (100 grain at 2960 fps) - 18.1
6mm Remington (100 grain at 3100 fps) - 20.0
.25-35 Winchester (117 grain at 2300 fps) - 13.3
.257 Roberts +P (120 grain at 2700 fps) - 22.0
.25-06 Remington (120 grain at 2990 fps) - 26.5
.257 Weatherby Magnum (120 grain at 3305 fps) - 33.4
6.5x55mm SE (140 grain at 2700 fps) - 30.7
.260 Remington (140 grain at 2750 fps) - 31.6
6.5mm Remington Magnum (120 grain at 3210 fps) - 30.2
6.8mm Rem. SPC (115 grain at 2625 fps) - 17.9
.270 Winchester (130 grain at 3150 fps) - 35.0
.270 Winchester (150 grain at 2850 fps) - 37.4
.270 WSM (140 grain at 3125 fps) - 40.1
.270 Weatherby Magnum (150 grain at 3245 fps) - 51.4
7x57mm Mauser (140 grain at 2660 fps) - 29.0
7mm-08 Remington (140 grain at 2860 fps) - 33.6
.280 Remington (140 grain at 3000 fps) - 37.1
7mm Remington Magnum (150 grain at 3110 fps) - 44.8
7mm Weatherby Magnum (154 grain at 3260 fps) - 55.3
.30 Carbine (110 grain at 1990 fps) - 7.4
.30-30 Winchester (150 grain at 2390 fps) - 22.8
.30-30 Winchester (170 grain at 2200 fps) - 25.4
.300 Savage (150 grain at 2630 fps) - 30.0
.308 Winchester (150 grain at 2820 fps) - 34.7
.308 Winchester (180 grain at 2620 fps) - 46.2
.30-06 Springfield (150 grain at 2920 fps) - 37.3
.30-06 Springfield (180 grain at 2700 fps) - 49.2
.300 WSM (180 grain at 2960 fps) - 59.5
.300 Winchester Magnum (180 grain at 2960 fps) - 59.5
.300 Weatherby Magnum (180 grain at 3240 fps) - 72.8
7.62x39mm Soviet (123 grain at 2365 fps) - 15.7
.303 British (180 grain at 2460 fps) - 40.1
.32 Winchester Special (170 at 2250 fps) - 25.4
8x57mm JS Mauser (195 grain at 2550 fps) - 52.0
.325 WSM (200 grain at 2950 fps) - 75.6
.338x57 O'Connor (200 grain at 2400 fps) - 39.7
.338 Federal (210 grain at 2630 fps) - 63.9
.338 Winchester Magnum (250 grain at 2650 fps) - 94.8
.357 Magnum (Rifle) (158 grain at 1830 fps) - 12.7
.35 Remington (200 grain at 2080 fps) - 28.7
.358 Winchester (200 grain at 2490 fps) - 47.0
.35 Whelen (200 at 2675 fps) - 56.4
.350 Remington Magnum (200 grain at 2770 fps) - 60.9
9.3x62mm (286 grain at 2360 fps) - 88.2
.375 Ruger (270 grain at 2690 fps) - 106.2
.375 H&H Magnum (300 grain at 2530 fps) - 113.0
.38-55 Winchester (255 grain at 1320 fps) - 22.7
.416 Remington Magnum (400 grain at 2400 fps) - 188.4
.416 Rigby (400 grain at 2400 fps) - 188.4
.44 Remington Magnum (Rifle) (240 grain at 1760 fps) - 26.4
.444 Marlin (265 grain at 2325 fps) - 63.4
.45-70 Government (300 grain at 1810 fps) - 50.1
.45-70 Government (405 grain at 1330 fps) - 55.0
.450 Marlin (350 grain at 2100 fps) - 88.9
.458 Winchester Magnum (500 grain at 2090 fps) - 217.3
.458 Lott (500 grain at 2300 fps) - 228.5
The most important factor in killing power, by far, is bullet placement.
Kazinski, note that nothing on the Chuck Hawks list of cartridges multiplies at all that rule to emphasize the importance of bullet placement. So almost all the so-called, "killing power," data on the list are largely superfluous—at least with regard to human targets. I concede that for massive dangerous game many of the smaller cartridges on the list might not suffice, no matter where a shot could reasonably be placed. But that is far afield (literally and figuratively) from the scope of this discussion.
The very first item on the list, the .223 with its apparently puny power compared to so many others, has proved efficiently lethal with adequate bullet placement. The standard for adequacy is not excessively demanding—it is mostly the same placement standard as it would be for the other cartridges. For any of them, a shot to the brain or vitals can quickly incapacitate a human, but with placement anywhere else an armed adversary might remain dangerous.
Then note that the .223 comes with deliberately engineered advantages to multiply the supply of bullets available, to increase the speed with which repeated wounds can be inflicted, and to thus multiply on two axes the shot placement value which most affects lethality. Add a third axis of multiplication when you consider the disruptions most of those more-powerful bullets impose because heavier recoil disrupts speed and accuracy of shot placements. All of a sudden the pipsqueak starts to look like a multi-axis lethality champion—which is of course why it was chosen as a standard by the U.S. military.
BWWWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAHAA!!!!!
Show us how this calcu;ation works, your database, and the resulting integration.
We'll wait....
No thanks. Pretty sure the military already did that. I doubt they chose as they did on a guess. Probably you could look it up.
I will simply apply common sense. Two shots are more likely to achieve critical bullet placement than one shot. Extra shots add cumulatively to the wounds inflicted, and multiply the kinetic energy delivered to destroy tissue in the target.
Light recoil disrupts aim less than heavy recoil, and enables more accurate repeat shots to achieve critical bullet placement with one of them.
All those factors work together, and serve as multipliers for the lethality gains each factor offers individually.
That could have something to do with why handgun users—including police—tend to empty their guns into people they target.
The author, Kopel, writes that "the purpose of shooting another person is to make that person stop doing something immediately, such as perpetrating a violent felony." His article is dripping with political motive in his characterization of the purpose as being to stop "bad guys". Sadly the "purpose" all too often is to commit a violent crime such as killing as many innocent people, including children, as possible in the shortest amount of time.
Maybe look at the underlying causes of mass murder which in many countries use vehicles, knives, poison gas, explosives, hammers, and arson.
Y’know, I’m pretty sure the Conspiracy already hosted a fascinating “Are ARs *really that bad? (The answer will surprise you!)” post. Can’t recall who posted. Maybe every Conspirator gets one?
JFC you people…
Banning weapons that are "extra" lethal is like banning speech that is "extra" effective.
Discussions of caliber seem orthogonal to discussions about the merits of assault weapon bans. Some bans exempt rimfire calibers, but other than that all the ones I have seen apply regardless of caliber. If your Barrett 82A1 in 50BMG qualifies, so would an AR in 32ACP.
Similarly, the merits of small+fast or large+slow seems inapplicable; I'm not aware of any of any bans that apply to 5.56 rifles but not 7.62x39, which is neither small caliber nor fast.
Getting down in the weeds of muzzle energy and terminal ballistics would be useful if the bans in question had something to do with muzzle energy or terminal ballistics, but they don't.
The bans are not defined in terms of lethality, much less in terms of muzzle energy or terminal ballistics but the justifications used to defend those bans (made sometimes by their proponents and sometimes by courts trying to find an excuse to uphold the bans) do use lethality claims. The point of articles like this one is to debunk such claims so that the utter arbitrariness illogic of the bans is exposed.
As this article and many others have pointed out, the bans are about scary-looking AR-series rifles (theoretically regardless of caliber for most are 5.56) while explicitly not banning more traditional-looking rifles even though they are sometimes higher caliber.
On the proposed federal AWB,
I have downloaded & read the text of HR1808 Assault Weapon Bill
It lists banned features.
It lists guns banned by make or model.
APPENDIX A—FIREARMS EXEMPTED BY THE ASSAULT WEAPONS BAN OF 2022
It lists dozens of pages of guns exempt from the AWB by type and specific make and model.
Under type "Rimfire Rifles—Bolt Actions & Single Shots", my Savage 63KM and Savage 73 single shot rimfire rifles are not listed as exempt.
Under type "Centerfire Rifles—Autoloaders", "M–1 Carbines with standard fixed stock" are listed as exempt.
If HR1808 is passed my two single shot bolt action rimfire rifles are not exempt but my military semiautomatic carbine is exempt.
Right; most AWB's are feature based. The argument is that e.g. a pistol grip makes it easier to use for a spree shooting. I happen to think that is bunkum; I don't think anyone can shoot e.g. a conventional wooden stocked and pistol gripped Mini-14 side by side and possibly maintain a straight face while arguing the pistol grip makes a functional difference.
But while it may be incorrect, it is a coherent argument. What isn't coherent is to argue, say, "ARs are uniquely bad because they shoot a small fast cartridge, not a traditional nice caliber like .308, so we're going to ban them in all calibers from 22LR to 50BMG". That's not narrowly tailored.
So-called 'assault weapons" are not at all exceptional in either muzzle energy OR terminal ballistics. In fact, the one the Banners most want to prohibit tend to be at the lower end of those scales.
A very accurate, well written technical explanation of shooting.
But you did make the "oops" of writing, "the barrel leaves the bullet"...
In the discussion of the military FMJ bullets compared to the civilian preference for fragmenting or mushrooming bullets, it was left out that The Hague Convention of 1899 banned fragmenting and mushrooming/flattening bullets from use in warfare as it made the wounds harder to treat. The military would absolutely prefer fragmenting rounds to ball ammo, all things being equal. To propose that that the military FMJ ammo is more deadly because it can yaw is putting lipstick on a pig (though it’s abundantly clear that the “expert” witness was no expert).
Also, a rifle bullet tumbling in flight means either that the rifling of the barrel is worn beyond effectiveness (the barrel is “shot out”) or with cast bullets that there is too much “jump” between the bullet’s initial position and the lands of the rifling (i.e. the soft bullet has gone off axis before entering the rifling, and the rifling ends up spinning an off-axis bullet, which leaves the barrel tumbling). In either case, a rifle bullet tumbling is a bug, not a feature, and not to be considered normal or desired operation.
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