The Volokh Conspiracy
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Justice Kagan Affirms En Banc Fifth Circuit
On Wednesday, the Supreme Court decided Helix Energy Solutions Group, Inc. v. Hewitt. The facts of the case are straightforward enough: does a "tool-pusher" who makes more than $200,000 per year, while working on an offshore oil rig, qualify for overtime pay? The law is, admittedly, complex. There is an intricate statutory and regulatory framework at play. I won't try to summarize those twists and turns here. But underlying these legal issues is a normative question: should someone making so much money be eligible for overtime? How would a liberal vote here? How would a conservative vote here?
By a 6-2 vote, the Supreme Court ruled that the employee was not paid on a "salary basis," and was thus eligible for overtime. Justice Kagan wrote a characteristically lucid decision parsing a difficult textual conflict. It is a breeze to read. Justice Gorsuch would have DIG'd the case (more on later). Justice Kavanaugh wrote a short dissent, which was joined by Justice Alito (more on that later as well).
I have been tracking this Texas case for several years as it wound its way through the Fifth Circuit. And I think it is worthwhile to note that six Justices affirmed a a decision of the en banc Fifth Circuit. And that opinion was written by--so we're told--one of the biggest hacks in the judiciary: Judge Jim Ho. Indeed, the Hewitt en banc majority had a heterodox makeup: Ho, Smith, Stewart, Haynes, Graves, Higginson, Costa, Willett, Duncan, Engelhardt, Oldham, and Wilson. In dissent were Judges Jones, joined by Owen (now Richman), Wiener, Elrod, and Southwick. The Fifth Circuit truly is the most interesting circuit. I flagged this case in my State of the Fifth Circuit Address from last year.
Justice Kagan favorably quotes Ho's opinion:
So as the Court of Appeals remarked, nothing about today's decision should "come as a surprise." 15 F. 4th, at 296.
While Kagan referred to Jones's dissent as "more expansive":
Six judges dissented in two opinions. The more expansive dissent argued that Hewitt's compensation "satisfied the salary basis test" of §602(a). Id., at 307 (opinion of Jones, J.). It further concluded that §604(b) is not applicable at all to high-income employees— i.e., those falling within the HCE rule because they earnover $100,000. See id., at 309.
Judge Ho departed from Judge Jones, whom I labelled as the Court's standard measure of judicial conservatism. Perhaps Justice Kagan's affirmance of Judge Ho's opinion bolsters that departure in this case, where judicial conservatism and textualism are in tension.
Finally, I would like to flash-back to Judge Wiener's en banc dissent:
I concur in Judge Jones's thorough dissent. But, as the panel dissenter and one of today's en banc dissenters, I write separately—and at times repetitively—to emphasize how common sense and a reasonable reading of the law combine to demand a result opposite the one reached originally by the panel majority and today by the en banc majority. Frankly, I cannot fathom how a majority of the active judges of this court can vote to require Helix to pay overtime to Hewitt, the supervisor of 12 to 13 hourly, hands-on workers, when he was already paid more than twice the cap of $100,000 per annum for overtime eligibility. And, if that is not incomprehensible enough, keep in mind that Hewitt worked for Helix no more than half of the days during the calendar years at issue!
I hope Judge Wiener can now "fathom" how six Justices of the Supreme Court, conservative and liberal alike, can reach this conclusion.
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Well, if he signed on as hourly, he is subject to the rules for hourly employees.
How much you are paid was never a factor in the hourly/salaried decision.
I got (for the times) big bucks as an hourly contract employee, including shift differential and overtime at time and a half as well as double time on very rare occasions.
Side note; I was asked to work paid hourly overtime as lot less often than I was ordered to work free overtime when the contract said salaried.
I once had an hourly contracting job. The boss's boss once announced a pizza weekend; mandatory for the salaried workers. Looked right at me, asked if I was coming in. I asked if I would be paid, not even asking about overtime. He said "No.". I said "No.". He glared at me. I glared back. I found a better salaried job a month or two later. The other, salaried, employees all thought the boss was an idiot even before that pizza weekend.
If Drackman's slightly-less-incoherent-than-usual definition of pizza weekend is correct, then it would of course be illegal to make you come in without paying you.
For that matter, please note something that many many people fail to understand: "salaried" and "exempt" are not the same thing. Many salaried workers are entitled to overtime pay.
What David Never-potent said
Her comments at the time referred to the "military's policy," and she consigned the recruiters to less favored areas. Horrible witch.
David,
Thank you for making a critical distinction
Exactly. Many employers roll the dice and when caught, they try to play the 'death, dumb, and stupid' card. When the wife and I started our service business 37 years ago, we were advised to have "contract" workers, but they would not have met the litmus test or the IRS or my State regarding the difference between 'contractor' or 'employee'. When it comes to overtime pay, it pretty much runs the same depending on the contract or hourly status. At least now, more salaried personnel are not being treated as indentured servants without getting overtime pay. I am fairly certain that the yearend bonus was more about the employer practicing CYA when it came to overtime rules than about rewarding the employee with an appreciation for services rendered.
Agreed as to your logic. The interesting twist in this case is that he signed on as a daily worker, not hourly. Per the majority's opinion and the strict wording of the law, you have to be at least a weekly worker to count as salaried.
But (and this was an interesting point by the dissent) his pay rate was so high that a single day's pay was enough to meet the minimum threshold for a weekly worker to count as salaried. There was not and mathematically could not ever be a week in which his pay fell below the required minimum. If you look at Congressional intent, it's pretty clear that they never intended for guys like this to be non-exempt. But that's not what they actually wrote.
The majority opinion stated that an exempt worker had to be paid for an entire week if they worked for any part of that week.
Not sure how that point could have been missed by the dissenters if it’s spelled out in that law.
The SCOTUS dissenters noted that he gets paid his day rate if he works and part of the day. And his day rate is higher than the statutory required week rate to make one salaried. He literally could not have worked part of a week and not received the necessary weekly remuneration even though it was based daily instead of weekly.
If it isn't what they actually wrote, it IS NOT clear it is what they intended. In fact, is CANNOT be clear they intended something other than what they wrote.
Actually, how much you are paid is ALWAYS a factor in the hourly/salary decision. If you don't KNOW that, I seriously doubt you were ever considered for a salaried position.
So sad some people consider $200,000 to be "...so much money..."
Where should the cut off be? $100,000? $150,000????
And no, I don't get overtime in my Gas-passing job (paid to pass Gas, Vot a Country!!!) it's a set rate + I get a commission for extra procedures, just like the guy at Best Buy trying to stick you with the extended warranty, Its that whole Doctor thang, you didn't go home when your "Shift" was over, but when the work was finished,.
Totally different with Nurses, they do get overtime, and do go home when their shift is done, no matter what's going on with the patient (patients coding?? sorry, got a nail appointment!!"
Frank
re: your medical example - it depends entirely on the department. Emergency Room staff including the doctors work a shift, hand off cases at the transition and go home no matter what. (They have to in order to get enough rest to come back ready for the next shift.) The only exception (in a well run ED) is when you're in the middle of a mass-casualty situation.
Surgeons, on the other hand, have to follow your pattern and stick with the patient through the surgery. Ditto obstetricians. And that applies to both the doctors and the nurses.
""They have to in order to get enough rest to come back ready for the next shift."
Said no doctor ever that trained in the 1980's or earlier, and yes, we had to fight off Dinosaurs on the way to work. Surgery Weekend Call was 8am Fri-8am Monday, every surgical case that came through the ER, plus your usual OR schedule Friday and Monday, and you didn't go home until everything was taken care of, if you were lucky late Monday afternoon.
Then you took call again 8am Tues-8am Wed.
OK, then you didn't take call until the next week, it was every 3rd weekend like that, and "1 in 3 call" was considered to be the "Easy" programs, the big names (Hopkins, Mass Gen) had "every other night" where the saying was "you miss 1/2 of the good cases"
Thats why I went into Gas-Passing.
Frank
And remember all the patients we lost to medical errors because the doctors were too tired to think straight. The macho "dedicated doctor" myth held on for far too long and cost a lot of people their lives. And honestly, too many still think that way.
It's great to have heroes. It's better to not need them.
According to John Hopkins, the THIRD leading cause of death in the US is hospital medical errors. Seriously...
Yes. I recall when they started backing off of that due to mounting evidence that it induced a lot of errors. And why wouldn't it? You're taking doctors who are by definition inexperienced and having them make decisions under stress when they lack sleep, etc. Would you let someone fly an airplane under those conditions?
I suspect a lot of it was more hazing than training.
the only Peoples "backing off" the work hours are Residency programs, which have all sorts of ways of getting around the hours, and the limit is 80 hours/week which is an Average, so you can have weeks more than that (most Surgical Residency have specialty rotations where you're on call the whole month, technically you can go home until you're called in, which in practice, is every night)
Most residency programs have the same number of residents as 50 years ago despite the increase in population, and while "Ancillary" services have reduced some of the "Scut Work" (making follow up appointments, transporting patients for X-rays, drawing blood, starting IVS*) Residents too, the # of patients has gone up (see population) so same amount of work to do in less time.
Also, to meet the 80 hour/week average, they came up with "Night Call" where you work 5a-7a the whole month, great for your sleep cycle, but at least they do get to sleep.
And whoever says you get to sleep on call, has obviously never taken call,
Frank
Don't worry, with over 50% of Med Students XX, and all of the USFMGS (the US Citizens who can't get in US Schools so go to those great Caribbean Schools) and regular FMG's there aren't that many doctors who work those hours (and the FNPs are even lazier)
Frank
Frank, that made sense in the 1950s when you could actually sleep through part of that -- but there are serious issues raised about that sort of thing today with our more 24/7 culture.
I wouldn't *want* a surgeon who is hallucinating -- which *is* what happens if you haven't had enough sleep. There probably is a better medical explanation for it, but I explain it as the brain saying "bleep it, I'm going to sleep *anyway*."
The US Army put out an interesting booklet about this in the 1980s (unclassified) -- the basic summary of which was that soldiers (and particularly leaders) needed sleep or they inevitably would make some really bad decisions...
When WILL you be old enough to apply to medical school?
" Emergency Room staff including the doctors work a shift, hand off cases at the transition and go home no matter what. (They have to in order to get enough rest to come back ready for the next shift."
It's not even that -- if you don't have hard limits, you start getting some serious psych issues. During Vietnam, the US Army realized that it had to rotate medics *out* of combat because otherwise they would stop packing things they needed (e.g. food & water) so that they could carry more medical supplies. And this was not good.
Even a mass casualty incident has a hard end point -- you've run out of victims. This and the hard end-of-shift helps prevent PTSD because PTSD is helplessness, which includes the feeling that "this will never end." So you need to end it to keep your people sane -- and it helps with what medical people refer to as "compartmentalization."
One of the good things that police officer unions have accomplished is negotiating hard limits to consecutive hours of on-duty time -- after the first 36 hours or so, the officer *must* be given 6-8 hours off after every 16-20 hours on-duty (it varies depending on contract). Yes, this is to sleep -- but it also is to decompress.
No. Nurses go home, when their relief arrives and they have given report to the relief. Then maybe, maybe they can go home. Don't make stuff up.
yeah, at the end of their shift, I know, I married one.
No Frank -- it depends on the (a) hospital, (b) state regs, and (c) union rules.
In a lot of hospitals, the nurse can't leave the floor until another nurse has come to relieve her, and while she will get paid overtime, for the reasons I mentioned above, this is not a good thing. In fact, over the past 30-40 years, it (and not wages) has been the driving force behind unionization of nurses.
Around here it as Dr. Ed describes.
A big factor in the drive for unionization is patient load, which not only adds stress, it makes end-of-shift paperwork longer. But increasing that load is a tempting way for hospitals to make more money.
Even in the 1980's we'd have "Chart Rounds" when we'd get all the Patient Charts (remember when things were actually written on paper?) and make sure they looked good. The joke was always "Our patients are sick as (redacted) but don't our charts look good!"
These fanboy comments about Kagan's writing (nowhere near as good as Scalia's) are laughable. Recall that Elana Kagan consigned military recruiters to second-class status at Harvard. In a disgusting display of kicking down (recall that DADT was not "military policy" as she described it, but resulted from a duly enacted statute.), Kagan humiliated military recruiters, who, of course, had no votes in Congress.
Real Americans know that she is a disloyal citizen unfit for polite company.
What does that have to do with her writing ability?
Nothing--it's just sickening to see any praised heaped on this anti-American bully.
And she ain't no Scalia either. She's cheeky. Her writing is so-so (for a Supreme Court Justice).
that bit about Jews/Chinese Restaurants/Christmas was pretty funny (because its true!!)
Justice Kagan is on the winning side of the culture war, the right side of history, and the prevailing side at the modern American marketplace of ideas.
That explains right-wingers' envy, resentment, and criticism.
Real Americans know that she is a disloyal citizen
Hey, man, wanna do some purges?
“Netflix and purge?”
It's hard to dispute what I've said---she blamed the military for a Congressional policy and punished military recruiters who had nothing to do with it.
What a horrendous person. Like I said, no business in polite company.
Yes, won't everyone feel bad for the oppressed class known as "military recruiters."
Ah yes, if one is not oppressed, jerks like Kagan can kick down like that. Where there's no defense, the non-defense defenses come out. She treated them poorly. Disloyal.
The military has let down American citizens by failing to win a war in 75 years, settling instead for a series of vague draws against ragtag irregulars -- despite enormous taxpayer-provided resource advantages -- across the globe.
More war criminals, mercenaries, corruption scandals, and un-American insurrectionists from our military than victories in war throughout the lifetimes of nearly everyone reading this.
How does that record rank on your "disloyal" chart, rloquitur?
She did no such thing, and it's not even clear how that's supposed to be "down" anyway.
oughta change your name to "Nie-dienst" which is German for Never-Served. Military recruiting is one of the worst jobs next to combat, high suicide rate, they have almost impossible quotas to fill with todays unfit/lazy/good for nothing generation, which is why, if given the choice, most will choose a combat position over Recruiting in East Dumb-fuck Arkansas (actually easier to recruit there) or worse in Berkley CA,
Frank
Why do you say that Kagan blamed the military?
If you dislike un-American conduct (or un-American people ,such as John Eastman and those who endorse John Eastman), here is a program for you:
Keeping Insurrectionists from Holding Office: The Potential Power of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment
Yes, you and Sarcastr0 are fully on board with purging such people you deem disloyal (AKA against our American democracy)…you (and others) make no secret of that.
As long as you don’t also lament the unfairness of 1950’s Red Scare/McCarthyism, I’m fine with your honesty. Of course, if you think somehow that was wrong but you are now correct, your unprincipled hacks. Just putting that out there.
I don't see how advancing a legal argument makes one disloyal.
Advancing a frivolous legal argument designed to allow someone to usurp the presidency seems more disloyal than expressing a policy disagreement by excluding an employer from private property.
To me, anyway.
Yes, the whole "Roosh-un Collusion" Bullshit to ursurp the Presidency for Hillary Rodman was very disloyal.
You could have just said that she is a liberal reform Jew.
Well, he did exclude her from the "Real American" category, and we Jews aren't Real Americans, regardless of politics.
Halakha believing Jews are. Those who think Judaism is about "tikkun olam" or other Marxist bullshit are not.
You can hate their politics all you want (I do!), but they're no less "real Americans" than you.
But people like Rloquitur who use terms like "Real Americans" don't include us in that category.
There's more to being a real American than having a U.S. passport.
Tikkun Olam is hardly "Marxist" - and it is a part of mainstream Judaism.
Yes, it is, and no, it's not.
"Tikkun Olam" is the way the liberal "Jew" pretends he's following scripture, but is really bowing to his false god of liberalism.
Had to see what a "Tool Pusher" does (visions of a guy in a Trenchcoat, back alley, "Pssssst, lookin for a good Ball-Peen Hammer? how about a Ratchet??)
turns out...
A Tool Pusher typically reports into the OIM when offshore, or the Rig Superintendent when onshore.
They are responsible for all drilling and well intervention activities, and for the health & safety of all personnel working within their team.
The Tool Pusher assumes responsibility for all drilling rig modules and equipment.
Day-to-day, the role will involve:
■ Liaising closely with their Rig Manager on all key issues.
■ Supervising all drilling, work over (and/or concurrent well intervention where appropriate) and well maintenance activities, including the management of the integrated services contractors and support personnel, to ensure that all operations meet contractual quality and performance criteria.
Tool Pushers are in charge of ensuring the rig has all necessary tools, equipment, and supplies. They work closely with the representative of the operating/exploration company in regard to the actual drilling of the well.
There is also somewhat of an administrative role, as they frequently do paperwork related to the rig crew regarding payroll, benefits, and related matters.
Conservative: Favors business
Liberal: Favors lawyers suing
Has great explanatory, and more importantly, predictive power.
Weird, you left out actual people in your business uber allies post.
Unweirdly, you added an extra "I" to "alles". How Freudian of you.
What’s Freudian about that?
Freud spoke German, you’d think he’d get it right!
Du bist schwul
Not weird at all."People" are the victims to be exploited by both populations
6 - 2 sez you're barking at the wrong story.
A conservative is a liberal who's been mugged.
A liberal is a conservative who's been arrested.
I'm sure it can be extended.
The real differences are between collectivists and individualists.
Originalism is the conservative principle of cherry-picking history in order to argue against laws they don’t like.
Textualism is the conservative principle of adhering strictly to the language of a law (in lieu context or external factors) in order to argue against laws they don’t like.
Judicial conservatism is the conservative principle of ignoring textualism and originalism when inconvenient in order to argue against laws whose text they don’t like and when there are no cherries on the history tree.
And “mainstream, jurisprudence” is ignoring the constitution and statutes whenever they get in the way of the administrative state expanding its power at the expense of individual liberty.
Who, other than you, is calling Judge Ho a hack?
Is this some sort of lowering of expectations that the conservatives are doing now? "Oh look at Judge Ho, so articulate! Who knew? Conservatve judges aren't all boneheads after all!"
What a strange rhetorical strategy.
Elite much? it's where you come in and work in return for free Pizza.
So depending on the Pizza, the hours, probably less than minimal wage.
Frank "Working Stiff"
Frank has it right. Maybe it only happens at tech startups.
I always attended on weekends; no one worked super hard, everyone concentrated on the issue at hand, there were no customer calls to distract you, the camaraderie was good, usually the pizza was better than average, and sometimes the pizza was only virtual pizza in the form of chicken or sandwiches or something else, still better than average.
along with "Pizza Weekend" looks like there's alot of words you don't know the meaning too.