The Volokh Conspiracy
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Twenty Red States File Badly Flawed Lawsuit Seeking to Terminate Private Sponsorship Program for People Fleeing Socialism and Oppression in Four Latin American Nations
The flaws in the states' position are revealed by their own governors' statements about the evils of socialism and the crisis at the border.

The Biden Administration recently adapted the approach used by the successful Uniting for Ukraine private migrant sponsorship program to include a combined total of up to 30,000 migrants per month from four Latin American countries: Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, and Haiti. Under these programs, migrants fleeing war, oppression, poverty, and violence in these countries can quickly gain legal entry into the United States and the right to live and work here for up to two years, if they have a private sponsor in the US who commits to supporting them.
Yesterday, twenty GOP-controlled states filed a lawsuit challenging the legality of the program for the four Latin American nations (though not Uniting for Ukraine). They claim the program lacks proper congressional authorization, and that it needed to go through the "notice and comment" procedure of the Administrative Procedure Act (APA). Ironically, the flaws in the lawsuit are highlighted by the plaintiff state governors' own statements about the evils of socialism and the urgent need to address the crisis at the southern border.
The legal basis for these private sponsorship programs is a 1952 law that gives the attorney general the power to use "parole" to grant foreign citizens temporary residency rights in the US, "on a case-by-case basis for urgent humanitarian reasons or significant public benefit." Are there "urgent humanitarian reasons" to grant entry to migrants fleeing these four Latin American nations? Most definitely! But don't take my word for it. Take that of the governors of several of the states that filed this lawsuit.
Three of the four nations included in the program are ruled by oppressive socialist dictators, whose policies have created horrific conditions. Few have put it better than Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, whose state is one of the participants in lawsuit. As he said last year, Venezuela's socialist president Nicolas Maduro is a "murderous tyrant" who "is responsible for countless atrocities and has driven Venezuela into the ground." DeSantis went on to say that "people [in Venezuela] are "really hurting,"due to the government's policies. It is indeed true that Venezuelan socialism has resulted in widespread oppression, poverty, and hyperinflation, leading to the biggest refugee crisis in the history of the Western hemisphere, with some 6 million people fleeing. Texas Governor Greg Abbott, whose state is spearheading the lawsuit, has also noted the severe economic crisis in Venezuela, which he (rightly) blames on socialism.
In 2021, DeSantis signed a law requiring Florida public schools to provide 45 minutes of instruction each year on the evils of Communist regimes, including that of Cuba, which DeSantis correctly described as responsible for "poverty, starvation, migration, systemic lethal violence, and suppression of speech." Cuba, likewise, inflicts severe poverty and oppression on its people, including recent brutal suppression of protests in July 2021. It's no accident that, before the recent Venezuela crisis, the biggest refugee flow in the history of the Western Hemisphere was that of people fleeing Cuban communism in the 1960s and 70s. Many would like to flee today, as well.
Nicaragua under the increasingly authoritarian socialist rule of Daniel Ortega is a similar story. Ortega's repression has deepened already severe poverty, and created what even the left-leaning BBC describes as an "atmosphere of terror." That's why many Nicaraguans have sought to flee. As one Nicaraguan human rights activist puts it, conditions are so bad that "[t]hey'd rather die than return to Nicaragua."
I don't know about you. But it sure sounds to me like there are "urgent humanitarian reasons" for Cubans, Venezuelans, and Nicaraguans to seek refuge in the US. And few understand that better than the people bringing the lawsuit seeking to prevent them from getting it. Abbott, DeSantis, and other GOP governors have repeatedly denounced both the evils of socialism generally, and those of the Cuban, Venezuelan, and Nicaraguan governments specifically.
But perhaps they have somehow forgotten these things. If so, DeSantis should invite his fellow GOP governors to sit in on one of the 45-minute classes on the evils of communism, established under the law he signed last year. Their support of this lawsuit indicates they might need a refresher course on the subject!
Haiti, the one nation with a non-socialist government included in the program, has long been one of the poorest and most dysfunctional societies in the world. Over the last year, conditions have gotten even worse, with intensifying violence and shortages of basic necessities. It's hard to deny that Haitians, too, have "urgent humanitarian reasons" to seek refuge.
In addition to humanitarian reasons, the law also allows the attorney general to grant parole when there is a "significant public benefit" in doing so. In this case, the significant benefit is alleviating what Republican governors constantly claim is a massive crisis at the border. Just last month, Texas Gov. Abbott demanded that President Biden immediately address a "dire border crisis" caused by many thousands of migrants illegally crossing the border.
The parole policy does exactly that. Many of the migrants seeking illegal entry at the border come from the four nations covered by program. Parole would enable them to come in legally by ship or plane, and thereby bypass the border entirely, thus relieving pressure at the border, and alleviating what Abbott calls a "terrible crisis for border communities in Texas." Earlier, more limited, expansions of legal entry opportunities for Haitians and Venezuelans have already caused a substantial reduction in illegal entry by nationals of those countries. The parole program can achieve much greater progress on that front.
Unlike in the case of the evils of socialism, I find much of what GOP governors say about the border crisis unconvincing. Immigration, including that from Latin America, is far more a benefit to the US than a burden. To the extent there are humanitarian problems at the border, they are largely caused by migration restrictions that have closed off pathways to legal entry for many people fleeing terrible conditions. But the more credence you give to GOP governors' rhetoric about the scale and urgency of the border crisis, the stronger the legal rationale for Biden's parole program.
Of course, most Republicans would rather address the border situation through increasing exclusion and deportation, rather than by making legal entry easier. I think their approach is likely to fail (and has historically failed), for much the same reasons as Prohibition led to an expanded illegal trade in alcoholic beverages. But even if their strategy really is better, it still doesn't undercut the legal rationale for Biden's actions. The relevant provision of the law only requires that parole produce a "substantial public benefit," not that it be the best possible way of achieving it.
Another "significant public benefit" of the parole program is strengthening the US position in the international war of ideas against socialist authoritarians. By giving refuge to people fleeing brutal socialist governments, we send a powerful message of the superiority of our system over theirs. Conservatives used to understand this point during the days of the Cold War, which is why most supported the use of this same parole power to grant entry to Hungarian, Cuban, and Vietnamese refugees from communism, among others. Sadly, today, too many on the right prioritize nativism over opposition to socialism.
The state lawsuit also argues that the parole program is illegal because it does not engage in "case-by-case" determinations of eligibility, as required by the statute. But unless it is going to be completely arbitrary or random, case-by-case discretion must be guided by general rules. And, as a general rule, migrants from these four countries face severe oppression and privation if they are forced to return. Thus, their admission is justified by "urgent humanitarian reasons." The Supreme Court recently upheld the use of relatively broad rules under the parole power in the "Remain in Mexico" case.
I discussed the relationship between case-by-case discretion and general rules in immigration policy, in more detail in this 2016 article.
The same considerations that defeat the states' statutory argument also undercut their procedural APA claim. While notice and comment rule-making is generally required for major regulatory changes, there is a "good cause" exception for - among other things - emergencies that require urgent action. The dangers faced by migrants from the four countries are pretty obviously an emergency. Every day of delay means more suffering for them, and in many cases more exposure to violence. And if the border crisis is as bad as GOP governors say it is, it qualifies as an emergency requiring swift action, as well.
It is arguable that the private sponsorship programs - including Uniting for Ukraine - cannot be continued indefinitely without going through the notice and comment process. But, given urgent exigencies, they can at least be initiated without it.
Finally, it is telling that the GOP states have sued to terminate the private sponsorship parole program for the four Latin American countries, but not the very similar one for Ukrainians, despite the fact that the latter is the model for the former. The most obvious explanation is that Ukrainian migrants are more popular - especially among Republicans - than Latin American ones. But such politically motivated distinctions suggest the plaintiffs are motivated more by politics, rather than any supposed commitment to the rule of law. In fairness, that is a common pattern, when it comes to lawsuits filed by politicians.
Whatever the plaintiffs' motives here, it is important to recognize that, if they prevail, Uniting for Ukraine is likely to be imperiled, as well as the program they are challenging. The legal justifications for the two are close to identical. Even if the plaintiff states would prefer to spare Uniting for Ukraine, that may not preserve it against challenges by other potential litigants (though some of the latter might be blocked by standing and other procedural barriers).
In this case, as in other state challenges to immigration policies, standing is likely to be an issue. I won't go into detail on that question here, except to reiterate my longstanding view that states should have broad standing rights to challenge federal policies, even when I believe they are wrong on the merits, as in the case of Biden v. Texas, currently before the Supreme Court.
In sum, this lawsuit deserves to fail for reasons well-articulated by some of the very people who filed it.
UPDATE: Cato Institute immigration policy expert David Bier makes some related points about the legal justification for the use of parole in this case, here.
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Has Haiti produced anything of value? Go to Overtown or other Haitian communities and see what crap these people are.
Does Vodoo count as something of value?
It produced a fairly major slave revolt.
I don't see the problem. The people come in for a period of two years and then go back to their countries of origin. This will be strictly enforced.
/sarc
Another benefit of this program is that the visitors will realize how horrible things are in the U. S., with all the racism and oppression. So they will no longer want to come here.
/sarc
I'm more upset by the mentality that we must do this because they are entering illegally. I still say machine guns on the border...
I agree that the broad discretion the immigration statutes give the President include the discretion to do this.
I also think criteria for state standing to sue the federal government should be stricter when the alleged state interests affected are specifically interests of the state’s government (e.g. lost fees from processing student loans, this) rather than the interests of the state’s citizens (with the state suing as parens patria), as occured in Massachusetts v. EPA, the seminal case for state having more lenient criteria to show standing to sue. It was Massachussetts’ sovereign in the interests that justified special solicitude for its standing. The interests of a state suing on account of e.g. student loan processing fees are not sovereign in nature. They are really no different from the interests of a private citizen.
I disagree.
A "case by case basis" was not intended to allow for mass immigration of individuals. It was intended for literal individual cases which may require executive level discretion, that might not be addressable by legislation. One couldn't expect Congress to make an exception for each individual person who might require an extraordinary exception.
This type of broad "30,000 people per country" program most definitively is addressable by legislation.
tl;dr;
Somin opposed to any limits on immigration.
Also needs to learn how to use the Read More tag.
Yes. Long and wordy even by his own standards. His academic writing must be War and Peace sized.
Mulched isn't complaining about prolixity, he wants Somin to put most of the article "below the fold" but the first step toward that is to have a fold. I suppose it is natural for bloggers to assume nobody wants to skip over their article, but sometimes we do.
Even the Short Circuit guy figured out how to use the Read More tag. I’m sure Somin could if he wanted to.
Actually, you are free to stop reading the post whenever you want.
I stopped reading after the first paragraph when I figured it Somin was adding nothing new to his usual schtick except a new bogeyman.
I didn't stop scrolling for another couple minutes.
If it bothers you that much, use the "Volokh Recent Posts" links to click back forth to each new article, instead of scrolling through all of them.
Headline, author.
All you need to know for 90% of "Reason".
"Finally, it is telling that the GOP states have sued to terminate the private sponsorship parole program for the four Latin American countries, but not the very similar one for Ukrainians,"
Yeah. It's telling of the fact that in the case of Ukraine you've actually got an argument for an emergency that requires urgent action. While the Latin American countries, while they might be hellholes, aren't emergent hellholes, they've been hellholes for years now.
Nasty situations stop being "emergencies" eventually, when the legislature has had time to deal with them if it had wanted to.
Also, imagine the fallout (no pun intended) of refusing to #StandWithUkraine.
You mean like the Haitian's admitted after the 2010 earthquake that are still here? What ever happened to the money raise to help Haiti rebuild?
Clinton Foundation.
Sadly, the decades of international aid sent to Haiti was a big reason that the 2010 earthquake caused as much damage as it did. All the cash floating around Port-Au-Prince drew a chunk of the population in from the countryside, rushed sub-standard housing was built, and here we are. Meanwhile in the DR, damage was much less.
If only the CIA hadn’t fucked around in Latin America all this time. They might still be socialist, but not such hellholes.
One appeal of socialism to these benighted places is that it’s the opposite of what the US wants, and people react adversely to foreign interference.
I suspect there's something to that.
People who are getting treated right by the system don't flock to socialism (except certain intellectuals who get a kick out of such things).
I don't think people flee free public health care and strong social safety nets, it's probably violence, poverty and oppression, a generous legacy of Cold War fuckery and, one would suspect, ongoing fuckery too.
"I don’t think people flee free public health care and strong social safety nets"
An interesting question, to be sure, but I hope you don't think it was a question I raised.
Are you sure I alluded to people fleeing socialist countries? I was discussing why misguided people turn to socialism in the first place. The fleeing comes later.
Yes, after the CIA has truly fucked your country up because it doesn't like its economic policies.
Not for the people involved.
Even for them. It just becomes "life sucks but we're here."
Nope. "Emergencies" by definition can only be temporary. And the only excuse for emergency powers is to deal with situations too sudden for legislation.
Congress has had plenty of time to erase our borders as Simon wants. Latin America still being sucky isn't an excuse for dictatorship.
That's what we're really talking about here: Simon is a law professor, but if the rule of law gets in the way of open borders, he loves a bit of dictatorship.
A condition of urgent need for action or assistance.
Brett, DMN is making an argument about scope. A family's situation can go from tolerable to bad *real fast* even as the nation's condition generally remains steady.
So yeah, even assuming your definition, you can get emergencies in a country even when things have been crappy for a long time.
Good to know this is how you can justify permanent "emergency" government powers.
You have no idea what I am saying, do you?
Well, yeah, that's why you want governments to deal effectively with emergencies, not let them fester, nor deny that they're even happening or all that much of an emergency, as is Republican policy. Ongoing bad things that a lot of people have to suffer quietly while pretending it's normal create breeding grounds for tyrannical takeovers.
Think on that, then think on modern governments' failure to deal effectively or decisively with imminent and new emergencies - yes climate change and covid - instead allowing them to become ongoing grinds making life miserable but kept in the background. The border is never going to be secured the way you want it, ever, nor will it ever be open the way Somin wants it, but it will be subjected to more people moving through it because of emergencies that were allowed to become normality, and those people will be subject to worse and ever more dehumanising treatment, becoming in itself an emergency allowed to become normality - actually in effect it's already that.
Government reaction to COVID made the whole situation immeasurably worse. That is simple reality.
And that the loudest advocates of climate change policies opt to eschew their stated preferred policies show the reality. I'll buy it is a crisis when the people proclaiming it a crisis act like it is a crisis.
Yes, that's what I said. It's literally killing thousands every week right now there's a wretched consensus to treat it as normal.
Your opinon on climate change perfectly illustrates the broken dysfunction of narrow political partisanship.
"Your opinon on climate change perfectly illustrates the broken dysfunction of narrow political partisanship."
If somebody is going to lecture me on pollution while churning out more pollution in a day than I do in a year; talk about how the ice caps are going to flood the coasts while spending millions on housing on the coasts; and demand others sacrifice when they refuse to do so --- then, no, I do not believe a word they say.
I think doing cocaine is a bad idea. I, therefore, do not do it. If I said "Don't do cocaine" while snorting a line, the message might be dampened a wee bit.
Again --- I'll buy it as a crisis when those who claim it is a crisis act like it is a crisis. They do not. At all.
"Finally, it is telling that the GOP states have sued to terminate the private sponsorship parole program for the four Latin American countries, but not the very similar one for Ukrainians"
Let's be honest. The Ukrainian program is also likely illegal and in violation of law. It may need to be overturned as well, until Congress passes appropriate authorization.
I think you missed the point here.
Sometimes, someone violates the law. And sometimes, people look away for various reasons, from the violation of the law.
But when that violation is expanded...people can't look away from the criminal action anymore.
The point being presented is what could be the reasons people looked away wrt Ukraine and not Latin America?
At least two reasons have been presented, that you seem to be looking away from.
1. Ukraine represents an emergency situation (war) that the Latin American and Caribbean countries don’t. 2. Adding the Latin American and Caribbean countries represents an unacceptable expansion of a program that was originally more limited.
Seems like plenty of reasons to me.
2 is just begging the question, and 1 is nationalizing what is generally an individual determination.
So no, I don't think you've explained it at all.
You don't understand what begging the question means. So you don't think.
The statute requires urgency, not emergency. Congress apparently thought these were different standards because it amended the statute's original text "for emergent reasons or for reasons deemed strictly in the public interest" to "only on a case-by-case basis for urgent humanitarian reasons or significant public benefit" in 1996 (ref. Pub. L. 104–208, § 602(a)).
You let these people in, pretty soon they’ll be setting up small businesses or doing productive manual labour or operating food trucks and extolling the benefits of a freer and more capitalist society. What a horrible outcome.
Also, one way out of the funding problem with Social Security is increasing the working population. Some of you may be aware that women do not give birth to 21yo’s. These socialist countries have paid for their education, and now we get the benefit.
Citation for the particular assertions in your first paragraph? Specifically related to this refugee group?
You're making a general policy argument, one which I don't specifically disagree with. That doesn't mean we should let anyone/everyone in because of it. There's a reason (contra the likes of open border enthusiasts like the good professor) we theoretically prioritize immigration from both regions of the world and skills possessed by applicants. If we're talking about an emergency, the "productivity" of those we let should be irrelevant to that decision.
Professor Somin's endless postings presuming any immigration restrictions are beyond tedious. Why even bother wasting our time attacking the specifics of a particular restriction when you don't believe any restrictions are constitutional?
This lie again? In all likelihood, they'll be financial drains. Even if not criminals (as a disproportionate number of them are), they consume far more in social spending, education, and health care than they contribute.
I seem to recall a Trump-era draft study showing that this wasn't true, and the results were hurriedly suppressed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/18/us/politics/refugees-revenue-cost-report-trump.html
Gotta wonder why Yuma is unhappy, with their hospitals basically being overrun by illegals to the degree that citizens have to go to other cities for medical help.
DON'T THEY CARE ABOUT FOOD TRUCKS?
Very true. But it's worth noting that while in Cuba the oppressive socialists came to power by force of arms, in the other two countries they were voted in.
So what?
1. This old saying comes to mind: "You've made your bed, now lie in it."
2. There's a good chance that, if given the chance, they'll vote in oppressive socialists here too.
https://dennisprager.com/column/immigrants-change-cultures-whether-new-yorkers-in-florida-or-latinos-in-america/
Are you stipulating that the refugees generally voted for the governments they’re escaping? If not, they did not make their own beds.
Further there is a tendency for people to react strongly against the kind of government they left. Hence Soviet emigres tended to be virulently anti-Communist. Ever heard of Ilya Somin or Evgeny, er, Eugene Volokh?
These refugees are likely to be more pro-freedom and pro-capitalism than you or that goyishe kop’d Prager seem to think.
That reminds me of a joke of two Soviet women chatting after they’ve not seen each other for a while. “So, Sara Abramova, what are your sons up to?” “Well, my first, Isaac, is in Dnepropetrovsk building Communism!” “And Jacob?” “He’s in Archangelsk, building Communism!” “And what about Benyamin?” “Oh, he emigrated to Israel.” “And is he too building Communism?” “Are you kidding? In his own country?”
In the Cuban case, yes. In the example of Venezuela and Nicaragua, no. They voted fore free shit and don't like the consequences. Much like Californians escaping to Texas and Colorado to escape their fuckups.
Bloated, corrupt government grows up around success, then declares itself the cause of it.
Well, given that Venezuelan elections are bent with plenty of counting irregularities, suppression of opposition voting and opposition politicians, etc. and a low turnout - staggeringly low by some accounts, this doesn't suggest that the vast majority of Venezuelans happily voted for the PSUV.
I've never heard anyone (other than you, I guess) claim that Hugo Chavez came to power by electoral fraud.
If you vote in someone like Chavez, you shouldn't be surprised when they start "bending" elections, suppressing the opposition, etc.
(It works like that here too, by the way. Our elections weren't always "bent"...)
I never claimed that Chaves came to power by fraud - but he was first elected over 20 years ago. We're talking about now, as indicated by my use of the present tense in my previous post.
Also, right wing conspiracy theorists might not realize this, but Hugo Chavez is dead.
"Well, given that Venezuelan elections are bent with plenty of counting irregularities, suppression of opposition voting and opposition politicians, etc. and a low turnout – staggeringly low by some accounts, this doesn’t suggest that the vast majority of Venezuelans happily voted for the PSUV."
Saying equally true statements about 2020 here and people get pissy
Statute says parole on a "case-by-case basis", not a blanket policy.
So, case by case, they ask What country are you from?
Fleeing socialism or spreading it?
Gonna need a lot more evidence that JAQing off to support the idea that refugees are actually secret socialist agents seeking to spread international socialism to our shores.
Filed in a single Trump judge division. Two sides can play at judge shopping.
Cuba and Haiti, ok fine.
But today Maduro is our partner in energy supply. Certainly a good partner like this is not doing evil things that people need to run from.
And Biden has been swell on Ortega for 40 years, since back when Ortega was a burr under Reagan’s saddle. The enemy of my enemy and all that. In Biden’s judgement he’s good for Nicaragua. How could there be any oppressed refugees?
It's only 20 states though, right? It's super-healthy for a union of states to just ignore what 40% of the states care about and choose a policy to benefit foreign nationals instead.
"Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua] are ruled by oppressive socialist dictators, whose policies have created horrific conditions."
Chicago, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York City, - - - - - -
The local socialists here are sooooo much smarter and better though. They’ll do it right and succeed even though no one ever succeeded before.
Socialist New York City.
Dude.
A "case by case basis" is not an authorization for "up to 30,000 individuals".
That just destroys the spirit of the law, while twisting the letter of the law beyond all recognition.
However, I strongly suggest the current law be changed as follows.
"All authoritizations which allow for a "case by case" exception to the law by a cabinet level official, must be signed by the cabinet level official personally for each individual case, in triplicate, for each individual case exception"
This should get rid of executive branch abuses of the law, which were intended for individual exceptions as needed.
STATES RANKED BY EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT
(including territories; 52 jurisdictions ranked)
COLLEGE DEGREE
Alabama 47
Alaska 29
Arkansas 50
Florida 27
Idaho 38
Iowa 39
Kansas 20
Kentucky 48
Louisiana 49
Mississippi 51
Missouri 33
Montana 23
Nebraska 26
Ohio 37
South Carolina 36
Tennessee 40
Texas 28
Utah 14
West Virginia 52
Wyoming 42
ADVANCED DEGREE
Alabama 39
Alaska 33
Arkansas 50
Florida 27
Idaho 41
Iowa 45
Kansas 22
Kentucky 37
Louisiana 46
Mississippi 51
Missouri 31
Montana 29
Nebraska 30
Ohio 35
South Carolina 32
Tennessee 36
Texas 34
Utah 25
West Virginia 44
Wyoming 40
Four of these 20 states are in the top half with respect to college degrees (Utah, 14; Kansas, 20; Montana, 23; Nebraska, 26).
Two of these 20 are in the top half with respect to advanced degrees (Kansas, 22; Utah, 25).
Even before addressing the issue of the quality of the schools awarding the degrees, is seems reasonable to call this entire collection of downscale states half-educated.
do you have either degree Rev.Revolting???, funny how you won't say, or what State you supposedly received them in. Haven't heard m-m-m-m-m-m-m-m-uch from S-S-S-S-S-S-Senator Stuttering John Fetterman lately, had any luck with you commutation package lately??, "Klinger"
Frank
It actually wouldn't surprise me a bit, Artie, if significant contingents in those states are actually quite content that they don't meet the arbitrary and often meaningless standards set by you and your hubris-drenched buddies.
Or maybe it just doesn't matter to them either way, because they're actually busy accomplishing meaningful things with their lives rather than sitting around desperately trying to feel better about themselves by indulging in a statistical version of Jerry Springer syndrome.
You got me there, Life of Brian.
I confess, after being called out by Life of Brian, that many of my most vivid memories of law school involve classmates confiding 'I mostly went to law school so that some day, if I'm lucky, my children could move to Mississippi' or 'I'm so disappointed -- I want a job with a firm in Oklahoma or Idaho, but all I ever get are offers from New York, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, and Chicago.'
Advanced degrees like master's in "African American studies" or "Queer studies?"
These bigots are your people, Volokh Conspirators.
And the reason good law schools are unlikely to hire many more movement conservatives for faculty positions. What legitimate school wants to be associated with this type of bigotry?
Rev ALK..parse that by degrees in engineering, hard science, and business. Take out the useless liberal art/eduction/gender studies and other BS majors and let's see the segmentation. college education today is mostly a joke. In fact colleges should shut down about 70% of majors...keep engineering, computer science, business, paraprofessional like nurse/PA, hard science and maybe economics (austrian school only)...tuition would go down quickly. And supply of woke assholes in govt/academia/big tech/NGOs would go down. They would have to weld or clean furnaces. Good honest work
These comments, as usual, indicate education-disdaining right-wing bigots are the bulk of this blog’s audience.
Does the content of this blog generate ignorant racists, gay-bashers, xenophobes, etc., or merely attract them?
We really need to do something about state standing. And yes, looking back at Massachusetts v. EPA, it should have come out the other way.
In a polarized society, state AG's will always sue to invalidate the policy initiatives of the other party's president, which means everything ends up in the courts which should instead be settled by elections. Get rid of state standing except where the state is actually, prevented from doing something like pass a law or fund its government or something.
To the contrary. The federal government is a creation of the states. They should have standing to challenge anything the federal government does outside of the law.
Once again, the federal government is not a creation of the states. In fact, the federal government predated 19 of the 20 state plaintiffs in this case; it created them, not the other way around.
Doesn't change the fact that the federal government was created by the states then in existence.
The preamble to the US Constitution argues otherwise.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union (of States), establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Evidently the Federal government was a creation of the People, not the states, else it would have read, "We, the United States...".
Except all the ratification votes were taken state by state, and in terms of how many states ratified.
But they were done by the people of the states, not the states.
Really, what you want is the preamble to the Articles of Confederation. That was the first National fovernment. And it makes it more clear.
"To all to whom these Presents shall come, we the undersigned Delegates of the States affixed to our Names send greeting. Whereas the Delegates of the United States of America in Congress assembled did on the fifteenth day of November in the Year of our Lord One Thousand Seven Hundred and Seventy Seven, and in the Second Year of the Independence of America agree to certain articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia in the Words following, viz. "Articles of Confederation and perpetual Union between the States of New Hampshire, Massachusetts bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia."
Great -- then states that are disproportionately impacted by federal decisions re immigration will have no other recourse than to go back to running busloads of them to Washington and fair-weather sanctuary states. And then people will gripe about that.
What SHOULD states be able to do to mitigate externalities from feel-good federal laws/actions/inactions?
"What SHOULD states be able to do to mitigate externalities from feel-good federal laws/actions/inactions?"
Pass a law making it a felony for Federal agents to carry firearms in the state.
Make it a felony to aid Federal efforts in the state in any way, including selling fuel or food or electricity or water or sewer services to the Feds or anyone working with or supplying the Feds. Expressly include Federal judges and courts and Federal marshals in the list of prohibited persons.
Or make it actionable Texas SB8-style if making it a felony hits some speed bumps.
There’s a lot of stuff states could do if pushed far enough.
So many on the right want the dumbest civil wars.
Having you and all 100 million people who think and vote like you in gas chambers would not be dumb. It would be glory.
Such impotent rage.
Why would you want to start a war? You’d send troops in to secure electricity for Federal officers to use?
I believe there are laws against that specifically. So I’m not sure how you think you’d get that done.
I mean, California basically did the leftist equivalent, and I believe it’s been blessed by the ninth circuit.
You guys lost the civil war.
Why do you want to start a war?
They don't. If there was a real war, they'd lose pretty quickly these days.
They both went all the way to the kook fringe immediately as soon as I pointed out that states have options available to them.
Less hateful types might want to discuss ways to get along before planning a military invasion of American states. But that’s just not who these two guys are, I guess.
Your options involve state government force against the federal government.
That is not a way these united states will just 'get along.'
You protesting innocence in what you propose makes you either a troll or an idiot.
Refusing to sell goods and services isn’t "force".
“Pass a law making it a felony for Federal agents to carry firearms in the state.”
Pay attention to what you write.
Moreover, refusing to supply electricity is full on 'I'm not touching you' tactics.
I expect you know that, but it is possible you're just an idiot.
Arrests for carrying firearms might be force. Making it a felony is not. Federal officers might be indicted and given notice to appear for trial. No force used or needed. But they should probably just refrain from felonious conduct.
Name-calling a tactic doesn't make a military invasion of an American state legal or otherwise acceptable. It's amazing that you're trying to find a way to justify it.
I guess the federal government would just have to eminent domain all its purchases in the state.
None of those "options," of course, being legal.
Um, moving troops from one American state to another is not an "invasion" any more than me entering my son's bedroom is trespassing.
That's what you thought last time, too.
I wasn't exactly around "last time". I'm not that old.
Realistically speaking, assuming there was a "Civil War", and the population divide roughly broke down by the current voting percentages (typically around 50-50, depending on the year), it would not end well for the Democrats. (And yes, if just one state broke away, things are very different) There are a few reasons for this.
Point 1: The military.
1. The military runs more Republican than the country as a whole. In many places, significantly so. The standing military today is much larger than it was in 1860, and would play a much larger role (assuming it didn't entirely stand aside)
2. Most major military bases are in "Red" states and areas. Feeds into point 1.
3. In addition, military recruits are overrepresented from "Red" states. Again, feeding into point 1.
Point 2: The Geography
Assuming the "Red" states and "Blue" states divided, the "Red states" are geographically contiguous. The "Blue" states are divided. That creates major issues, long term.
Point 3: This isn't 1860.
The North in 1860 had extreme major advantages in manufacturing. representing >90% of US industrial output. Today, much of American manufacturing is in the "Red states" (Yes, the blue states also have some)
There are other reasons, and a full US civil war today would be an immense disaster for every one. But like in 1860, it's likely the Republicans would win again.
Great prediction, from a guy who actually believes conservatives are still competitive in the modern American culture war.
Carry on, clingers. May your delusions provide solace until replacement occurs.
Last Civil Wah (I prefer "Wah of Naw-thun Aggression") Veteran died in 1956. And I'm not threatening anything, but sometimes there are second wars. Doesn't really matter with the rate you "Winners" keep moving South.
The Biden administration is using a section of law entitled "Inadmissible Aliens" to flood the country with even more aliens. It would be charitable to say this is a "stretch" of the law's meaning or intent. The law speaks of a "case-by-case" basis. This means individual cases, not the "case" of entire nations. The law also speaks of "temporarily". How many of these aliens' stays will be "temporary", do you imagine?
Whenever there is one of these broad assertions of executive authority based vaguely one some subsection of text buried in some obscure statue, Prof. Somin is usually quick to condemn it, from student-loan forgiveness to eviction moratoriums, and, of course, any measure that might keep an alien out of this country like the border wall emergency declaration or restriction of aliens from state sponsors of terrorism. But when it comes to his favorite cause, expanding the admission of aliens into this country as much as possible, his doubts about these claims of executive authority suddenly disappear.
He knows they and their worthless crotch droppings will be reliable Democrats in 18 years.
If the men only ejaculated into the behinds of other men you would not get any “worthless crotch droppings.”
Time to grant Palestinians asylum status. I would love to see certain "liberal" activists flip out over that one. Karma..pure Karma. I mean they are oppressed and denied basic rights. It think say five million in NYC, DC, LA and Chicago would be great...don't you? Let's not be a bigot here.
My, oh my, have you libertarians made a deal with the Devil, as demonstrated by the extraordinary racism above.
No one asked for your approval.
Is anyone surprised that a blog whose management regularly uses racial slurs and which promotes hard-right positions is crawling with bigots of various flavors?
US population is around 350mm. Life expectancy dropped from around 79 to just over 76 in the last couple of years, equivalent to a loss of greater than 700 million years. Assuming that each refugee has an expectancy of 50 years on arrival, you would need 14 million immigrants to replace those lost years. Instead, we're getting something under 400 thousand. about 3%.
And the lost years are likely disproportionately to be from the less productive, at least relative to the arrivals.
OK a full actuarial analysis may be required, but from a demographic perspective, it's not clear that any great harm would result from this intake.
Life expectancy is calculated on the basis that "the current death rate for all ages continues throughout everyone's lives on into the future"; If a pandemic killed one person in ten in a given year, the "life expectancy" that year would be reduced on the premise that one person in ten were going to die EVERY year going forward. Even if the pandemic went away the next year.
We had some people die of covid, we're now having people die of the health care system being disrupted on the basis of covid, (Delayed cancer and heart disease treatments, and diseases not caught due to people not getting physicals.) but once that works its way through the system, life expectancy should pop right back up.
Hence my observation that a full actuarial analysis is required.
'but once that works its way through the system'
Yeah, remember the comments about emergencies that keep going on no longer being 'emergencies?'
I’m not sure why Professor Somin is bothering with pointing out alleged inconsistencies in the Plaintiffs’ position. Their position seems perfectly consistent to me. If a Democrat does something, it’s bad. If a Republican (who is not a RINO) does something, it’s good. It simply doesn’t matter what that something is. All that matters is who is doing it. Focusing on the something itself as if it had any relevance to anything seems completely besides the point. It’s oldspeak, bordering on crimethink.
Did I miss something (and I will admit I may have, i am reading this on a phone in several stints)? I see that the suit is based on it lacking congressional authorization, and not needed to go through the notice and comment procedure under the APA. The merits of the case aside, rather than dedicate so much time trying to demonstrate that governors believe that the potential refugee situation is more dire than the suit implies, why not address the points brought up in the second paragraph?
They won their liberty from France and then lost it to their own countrymen. It's been downhill ever since. Hard to believe they share an island with the Dominican Republic but nothing else.
Surely you don't think that whatever Naziman is calling himself today is an ostensible libertarian.
Yes they did, 220 years ago. Lots can happen in two centuries, in Haiti's case nothing good.
"Haiti is one the few places where people under slavery revolted and won their liberty."
Then where the F^^%$ is it???????
and it worked out so well for them!
Literally or figuratively?
Ilya has argued that the federal government has no power to control immigration. Is that close enough to "unconstitutional" to satisfy?
The only ones that Prof. Somin has argued are unconstitutional are discriminatory ones like banning Muslims. (I don't agree with him on that point, FWIW.) Otherwise, he just argues, correctly, that they're bad policy and immoral.
"Things aren’t great in Haiti but it beats slavery. "
Except it still exists there in only a different form.
https://www.humanium.org/en/restavek-children-in-haiti-a-new-form-of-modern-slavery/
Still finding a way to blame America. Fascinating.
And the French did all they could to fuck Haiti for decades.
Maybe you should look at what he actually says?
https://www.cato-unbound.org/2018/09/12/ilya-somin/does-constitution-give-federal-government-power-over-immigration
Yep. Somin is an extremist.
It was mostly France who kept them crushed economically, but yeah, the US wasn't happy about it either.
It was made an example of pour encourager les autres.
America had nothing to do with Haiti. That was France.
Unless you count the decades-long occupation of Haiti by the U.S. in the 20th century.