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Military Law Doesn't Clearly Forbid Private Masturbation With Child-Like Sex Doll
The U.S. Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals doesn't resolve whether such conduct is substantively constitutionally protected from criminal punishment, but holds that military law didn't put the defendant on notice that the conduct was illegal.
From U.S. v. Rocha, decided Friday by the U.S. Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals, in an opinion by Judge Natalie Richardson, joined by Judge Eric Cadotte:
A general court-martial … convicted Appellant … of … indecent conduct—engaging in sexual acts with a sex doll with the physical characteristics of a female child—in violation of Article 134, Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)…. The military judge sentenced Appellant to a bad-conduct discharge, 90 days of confinement, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and reduction to the grade of E-1….
Appellant raises several assignments of error, asserting: (1) private masturbation with a doll is constitutionally protected conduct; (2) Appellant did not have fair notice that private masturbation with a doll was subject to criminal sanction; (3) [and various procedural objections] ….. Because we find in Appellant's favor on issue (2), we do not address the remaining issues….
"[A]ll disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces, all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces, and crimes and offenses not capital" are punishable at trial by court-martial. Article 134, UCMJ, 10 U.S.C. § 934…. "'Discredit' means to injure the reputation of." The service-discrediting clause of "Article 134 makes punishable conduct which has a tendency to bring the service into disrepute or which tends to lower it in public esteem." …
[The elements] of Indecent Conduct under Article 134 … include: (1) the accused engaged in certain conduct, (2) the conduct was indecent, and (3) that, under the circumstances, the conduct was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces. "'Indecent' means that form of immorality relating to sexual impurity which is grossly vulgar, obscene, and repugnant to common propriety, and tends to excite sexual desire or deprave morals with respect to sexual relations."
The elements of Specification 2 of the Charge in this case include (1) Appellant engaged in conduct, to wit: engaging in sexual acts with a sex doll with the physical characteristics of a female child, (2) the conduct was indecent, and (3) that said conduct was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces….
"The primary obstacle to prosecuting a servicemember under [Article 134, UCMJ,] is that the servicemember must be on 'fair notice' that his conduct was punishable under the Uniform Code." Fair notice can come from "the [Manual for Courts-Martial], federal law, state law, military case law, military custom and usage, and military regulations." Accordingly, a servicemember may be prosecuted for service-discrediting conduct "even if the conduct is not specifically listed in the Manual for Courts-Martial."
In United States v. Merritt, the United States Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces (CAAF) considered whether the appellant was on fair notice that his conduct—viewing child pornography—alleged in violation of Clauses 1 and 2 of Article 134, UCMJ, was criminal. The CAAF noted that during the charged time frame, "the 'viewing' of child pornography was not criminalized under the UCMJ, the MCM, military custom or usage, the comprehensive federal statutes, or the majority of state statutes." The CAAF found that none of the [relevant authorities] provided the appellant with notice in that case, and found the appellant lacked sufficient notice the viewing of child pornography was subject to criminal sanction in 2006. The CAAF set aside the finding of guilty to that specification.
The day after it decided Merritt, the CAAF decided In Warner, the CAAF considered whether the appellant was on fair notice that his conduct—charged as possessing images of "child erotica"—alleged in violation of Clauses 1 and 2 of Article 134, UCMJ, was criminal. The court found:
Simply put, although child pornography is a highly regulated area of criminal law, no prohibition against possession of images of minors that are sexually suggestive but do not depict nudity or otherwise reach the federal definition of child pornography exists in any of the potential sources of fair notice set out in Vaughan and available to [the a]ppellant. It follows that the [a]ppellant received no such notice….
Should Appellant have been on notice that sexual acts performed with an inanimate object, alone and in a private setting, and unknown to others, that did not also involve any clearly prohibited conduct (e.g., production or possession of child pornography), were subject to criminal sanction? We answer this question in the negative.
Traditionally, obscenity or indecency "must, as a general thing, involve or touch other persons." This is not to say that indecent acts must be committed with another. Our review of case law reveals several hallmarks of criminally indecent conduct, to include: (1) minors or others who do not consent or may not easily either refuse or manifest lack of consent; (2) prostitution, contraband, or other precursor or concurrent criminal conduct; and (3) in public, or in an open and notorious manner. Appellant's case includes none of these factors. Even looking beyond the recognized hallmarks, we find meager support for the contention that Appellant otherwise had constitutionally required fair notice that the conduct at issue was criminally indecent.
In its brief to this court, the Government notes that the offense of indecent conduct is an enumerated offense under Article 134, UCMJ, in the Manual for Courts-Martial. However, the fact that it is enumerated as an offense does not end the inquiry into whether Appellant was provided constitutionally required notice that his conduct was criminally indecent. The Government has not identified—and we ourselves have not found—anything in the MCM, federal law, military case law, military custom and usage, military regulations, or even state law that criminalized the type of conduct for which Appellant was convicted. We agree with Appellant that "none of the sources listed in Vaughan, nor the record itself, show that masturbating with a child sex doll was subject to criminal sanction."
The Government argues to this court that Appellant's conduct involved a minor and was public. We disagree. First, the Government claims, "Though Appellant is correct that the sex doll in this case is not an 'actual minor,' … Appellant's conduct nonetheless 'involves minors' since he used the doll to simulate sexual acts with actual minors." We disagree. Appellant's conduct was an actual sexual act with an object that may have simulated a minor but plainly was not an actual minor. Additionally, internal thoughts and feelings—which in this case did not include Appellant pretending the doll was an actual child during his sexual activity—do not transform the doll into a "minor."
{We find this caution regarding possession of images that are not child pornography apt to this case involving a doll of a child: "If an accused's subjective reaction to otherwise constitutionally protected images places the images in Article 134's crosshairs, the danger of sweeping and improper applications of the general article would be wholly unacceptable." United States v. Moon (C.A.A.F. 2014) (reviewing a conviction for unlawful possession of images that did not meet any recognized definition of child pornography). "Liberty presumes an autonomy of self that includes freedom of thought, belief, expression, and certain intimate conduct." Lawrence v. Texas.}
Next, the Government argues Appellant's conduct was not a "fully private matter," as Appellant had the doll shipped to an Airman, "then used the child-like sex doll multiple times in his on-base dorm room and in a shared common area," and the doll was discovered during a dorm inspection. The record does not support a conclusion that Appellant masturbated with the doll in any shared space—including the shower. And that the doll was shipped to another Airman and eventually discovered during a dorm inspection are not "public" or "open and notorious" circumstances that would put one on fair notice that masturbating with the doll was criminal.
The Government asserts Appellant was on actual notice that his conduct was proscribed. We disagree. As no source provided fair notice, it is improbable Appellant could have had actual notice. Moreover, what the Government and our colleague in the dissent characterize as evidence of consciousness of guilt—e.g., concealing the doll's purchase and presence in his room, and minimizing his interactions with the doll in his statements to AFOSI agents—we find instead is better viewed as evidence of Appellant's efforts to keep his activity with his doll a wholly private matter.
Put another way, Appellant was not concealing a crime but instead was concealing his "weird" actions. Even Appellant feeling "bad" or "disgusted" is weak evidence to support knowledge that his activities were criminal. As the CAAF noted in Merritt, "the fact that a servicemember may be ashamed of certain conduct is not sufficient by itself to equate to due process notice that the conduct was subject to criminal sanction."
We find Appellant did not have fair notice that his alleged conduct was punishable as indecent conduct, and Appellant suffered material prejudice to his constitutional due process right to such notice.
Here are some more factual details from the majority opinion:
Appellant purchased online a short silicone doll with female physical characteristics, including oral, anal, and vaginal orifices and small breasts. {Witnesses described the doll as being between one-and-a-half and four feet tall. It appears from photographs in the record that the doll was on the taller side of this range.} {We make no finding concerning whether the doll was a representation of a child.} Appellant had the doll shipped to another Airman's house; Appellant lived on base and could not receive the package at his on-base postal box. Appellant also purchased clothing for the doll.
About three weeks after Appellant received the doll, Appellant's commander ordered an inspection of the dorms, including Appellant's dorm room. Command representatives received a briefing from agents from the Air Force Office of Special Investigations (AFOSI) before beginning their inspection. Appellant shared a kitchen and bathroom with another Airman, but had his own separate bedroom. A sergeant entered Appellant's bedroom to inspect it, and saw something on the bed. She called over to Appellant's first sergeant, who saw "a very life like doll on the bed." Near the clothed doll were two body pillows, each with a female anime character on the pillowcase….
Appellant agreed to speak with the AFOSI agents. As the AFOSI agents began to question Appellant about the doll, Appellant said that recently he has "started to realize that if somebody sees [the doll] in [his] room then they're going to get some weird idea." Appellant admitted he would "like to be open, more open about this kind of stuff," and warned agents that he talks "about some weird stuff." Several times during the interview, Appellant stated he was "uncomfortable" talking about the doll.
In his interview with the agents, Appellant agreed the doll looked like a child. He explained that a larger doll would not fit well in his small dorm room, and would be more difficult to move around. Appellant explained how he benefitted emotionally from the doll. For example, he said to agents that after the box with the doll arrived: "I opened it up and dressed it up and we started talking. You know it wasn't an especially great day that day, so it helped a lot actually, and it was a lot easier than talking to my pillows because you know anime isn't real." Appellant named the doll Adele. He interacted with the doll in many ways, such as washing and applying baby powder to it, sitting it in a chair with a blanket or a book, and changing its clothes. Appellant denied taking the doll out of his dorm room.
Appellant admitted to owning "basically what is a child sex doll." Appellant told the agents that on three occasions in his bedroom, he masturbated using the anal or vaginal orifice of the doll but did not ejaculate in it. Each time, Appellant started to think, "[W]hat if this was a life, what if this was real," so he stopped his sexual activity with it. When asked whether he ever was "picturing Adele as real" and was "in to it," Appellant answered, "Real as in, like, a real child, somebody's daughter[?] No. No." Appellant denied having any sexual interest in children….
Judge Tom Posch dissented:
I believe Appellant was not deprived of fair notice that his conduct was subject to criminal sanction. In that regard, circumstantial evidence at trial showed Appellant endeavored to conceal his purchase of the doll. He admitted during questioning by investigators that he arranged to have it shipped to an address off base because "it's obvious it's not good to have something like that on a military base." (Emphasis added). He admitted having the doll was "not good because that is representative of a real-life human being."
Furthermore, Appellant initially lied to investigators about whether he engaged in sexual acts with the doll. Appellant stated that, after he committed sexual acts with the doll, he "felt bad because [he] did like it up until the point where [he] started thinking about if it were … somebody's daughter and [he] felt … disgusted with" himself. Under these circumstances, Appellant did not lack fair notice that his conduct was indecent and therefore punishable.
The majority cites United States v. Merritt (C.A.A.F. 2013), for the rule that an accused's feeling shame is insufficient to prove constitutional notice. However, Appellant's admissions went further than embarrassment, reaching consciousness of guilt in the way he described concealing his purchase and possession of the doll and initially lying about how he used it for sexual gratification. His admissions show awareness that the doll was "obvious[ly]" incompatible with keeping it on a military installation. In no small measure, the inference that Appellant actually knew it would be incompatible with military law to use a doll with the physical characteristics of a child in the manner it was designed, and that the Government charged, is objectively reasonable. Put simply, Appellant's admissions show he did not lack constitutionally required fair notice of what was forbidden.
Merritt can be distinguished another way. Unlike the offense that was charged in that case, objectively reasonable notice of the charged conduct includes the fact that the offense of indecent conduct is proscribed by an enumerated offense in the Manual for Courts-Martial. Consistent with the language of the specification at issue, "indecent conduct" includes acts that may not involve others. In that regard, the MCM explains that unlike "offenses previously proscribed by '[i]ndecent acts with another,' … the presence of another person is no longer required." …
The Government argues, moreover, that the offense of "Indecent Conduct" is inherently expansive in its reach. It argues that the President cannot reasonably be required to foresee or enumerate with specificity all possible acts of indecent conduct, which, per the enumerated offense, covers "immorality relating to sexual impurity which [are] grossly vulgar, obscene, and repugnant to common propriety, and [which] tend[ ] to excite sexual desire or deprave morals with respect to sexual relations." I agree with the Government that Appellant had objectively reasonable notice that engaging in sexual acts with a child-like sex doll was proscribed by statute when evidence showed he engaged in the conduct alleged in Specification 2 of the Charge …. Appellant's furtive behavior is inferential evidence that a reasonable person would know that using it to simulate anal and vaginal intercourse with an actual child was service discrediting.
Congratulations to Lieutenant Colonel Todd J. Fanniff and Major Spencer R. Nelson, who represented the defendant.
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This is information I did not need to know.
Ah but the next time you get training on workplace behavior you’ll know why there’s a section on masturbating with child sex dolls next to the one about inviting your black coworkers on a date for fried chicken and watermelon. (Real example)
Wonder if he dressed it in a blue dress....
"Off I go, into the child blue yonder!"
Baby Smurfs? That’s just wrong.
Very cute!
The world is so populated that we imagine that every possible circumstance has been encountered before. Not true.
Actually, I assume that every circumstance is different, though sometimes only in ways that will not necessarily be deemed germane.
Seems like this is something they should EITHER ignore OR dishonorably discharge the guy for. "We're letting pedophiles serve, but we're gonna punish them" doesn't make much sense to me. Either it makes him unfit to serve, or it doesn't.
It was a criminal charge. Deeming him unfit to serve is a different question, not necessarily requiring a dishonorable discharge..
The bar on that is anyway now so low (given, e.g., that we have an admiral who’s a tranny who buggers or gets buggered by who knows what, and that the armed forces are now I gather providing “gender affirming” surgeries enabling who knows what perversions, that the fact that some airman is known to be a doll-buggering incel does not obviously establish the claim.
Remember that a DD is not their only option — in this case, the Courts Martial sentenced him to a “Bad Conduct Discharge” which is not considered a felony conviction in the civilian world, while a Dishonorable one is. I *think* the Courts Martial could also have given him a General Discharge — I know that is used but not by whom.
Remember that like grades in academia, there is a ranking of military discharges — while there are a bunch more (e.g. “good of the service”) the ranking is “Honorable”, “Less than Honorable”, “General”, “Bad Conduct ” and “Dishonorable” which generally correspond to the A-E of academia. Many employers know this, and it also corresponds to things like veteran’s benefits. A "Dishonorable Discharge" also means you lose your right to own a gun in the civilian world.
The other reality — and that may have played into this decision — is that the USAF is struggling to fill its ranks right now. It’s one thing to boot someone 30 years ago when they were trying to downsize (or at least the Army was) in the post-Cold War world, another thing to do so now.
Thanks for the clarification. But my answer to Mr Toad that he was conflating "unfit to serve" with the necessity for a dishonorable discharge remains that far accurate.
And my main point was that military services which tolerate male admirals trannying it up in female uniforms have no basis for this kind of disciplinary action against the lower ranks. And the decision wasn't unanimous, which it should have been.
Meet the next Air Force Chief of Staff.
I truly don't understand why we need to protect pieces of plastic. Would we rather have these guys stalk real people?
I would assume the chain of command doesn’t want him doing either—at least not while he’s serving in the Air Force.
I would instead assume that the chain of command includes other doll buggerers or worse, who might have enough self-awareness to realize that pretending that this incel's private acts were any of their business had he been allowed to keep them private was ridiculous.
If they just wanted him out of the service, there were far easier and more reliable options.
At every stage, wtf were they thinking?
Likely, it was a low-level decision made without adequate advice on either side.
I assume the Air Force still follows substantially the same rules that I was under in the Army. If so, I had authority as a battery commander (company commander but for artillery) to prosecute for pretty much anything under Article 15. That was used for everything from uniform infractions to insubordination to drugs but it was "non-judicial" meaning that the penalties were limited. Lots of bad stuff gets dealt with without creating a permanent record that would follow someone the rest of their life. However, the servicemember has an absolute right to refuse the Article 15 proceeding and insist on a court martial. Once that right has been invoked, there's no real way off the train. The commander will be very reluctant to undermine the authority of the senior NCO who started this in the first place and higher-ups have no authority to stop the proceedings. (There are some exceptional circumstances where they can step in but that's going to do even more damage to the chain of command.) When this happens, everyone just prays that the Court Martial Board (equivalent of the jury) will make a decision that minimizes the damage. But like juries, Courts Martial Boards are unpredictable.
The entire concept of Kiddie Porn laws is a morass -- and the issue I raise is that while the age of consent is 16 in many states, Kiddie Porn is "under 18." So you can legally have sex with a 17 year old but not possess a picture of you doing so -- does this make any sense?
And 17 year old women try to look like they are 30, while 30 year old women try to look like they are 17 -- and with enough money and effort, both can do a reasonably good job at accomplishing this.
But there are sickos who want to have sex with 7 year olds and the really interesting (read "inconsistent") part of the law involves what legally constitutes a "7 year old." Do computer-generated images, how about the Japanese anime cartoons? What about photoshopping a child's head/face onto the body of an adult woman who is engaged in sexual activities?
The real question is going to be child sexbots. Sexbots -- robots that are chillingly similar to a human, complete with ability to move and speak, with AI-generated conversation ability -- are already here and the technology will inevitably improve rapidly. Moore's Law and all.
It would be very easy to make a child sexbot -- just model it after a child instead of an adult, and then program the AI differently. The real question is what comes next.
In other words, is it better to have perverts molesting silicone dolls instead of real boys & girls, OR will this encourage them to then go do it for real? It's an interesting issue of both public policy and law which I see the appeals court struggling with here.
While his barracks storage space was limited, and it would have been helpful to have exact measurements of the doll, it is reasonable to believe that he considered it a child. (On a practical note, even "Size 0" women's clothing would likely have been too big so he had no recourse but put children's clothing on it.)
So does his molesting the doll get that desire out of his system, or is it merely encouraging him to go molest real children? This gets into the psychology of "treating" sex offenders, and I personally think that a lot of the "treaters" need treatment themselves, but I digress.
I will add this -- there is something wrong with the people whose careers consist of viewing kiddie porn legally so as to identify specific images that can be tracked.
It's one thing to do what the USSS does -- everyone does it for six weeks and never have to again -- but the people who make a career out of doing this? Something is wrong with them...
It's like Elvis Presley wanting to be Nixon's Anti-Drug Czar -- Nixon actually gave him an Bureau of Narcotics badge. See: https://www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2012/dec/03/elvis-presley-nixon-drugs-1986
And one other thing -- this classic picture from the Kent State shootings: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/65/Kent_State_massacre.jpg
While she doesn't look like it, that is a 14 year old girl!
That's my real problem with kiddie porn laws -- I've seen way too many 14 year olds going on 40 -- including one who proudly proclaimed (in a discussion of the 4th Amendment) that both she and her mother had recently been arrested for prostitution.
(I suddenly "remembered" that I had neglected to discuss the 3rd Amendment, and proceeded to run out the clock doing so.)
"While she doesn’t look like it, that is a 14 year old girl!"
I was in high school at the time. She looks to be about the same age as the young girls in my high school year books. Her name was (and may be still) Mary Ann Vecchio. Perhaps that is what has you confused.
No matter her age at the time, we should all be grateful to Mary and to Phan Thi Kim Phúc for their contributions, each painful, in ending that sad exercise in American hubris that we call the Vietnam war. Grateful also, to the photographers who captured the events.
"That’s my real problem with kiddie porn laws..."
Yeah, you just don't get it. The purpose of such laws is to protect children no matter what age old male perverts perceive them to be. How do you suppose that girl of 14, daughter of a prostitute, ended up as a prostitute? Do you surmise that it was her fault? That would be the Libertarian position, I surmise.
The photos of Mary Ann Vecchio and Phan Thi Kim Phúc didn't end the Vietnam War. That happened many years later.
The photos just helped ensure that the communists would eventually triumph, which consigned 100s of thousands of innocent people to death or long terms in brutal prison camps.
You are arguing against a claim that I did not make. Brilliant, simply brilliant.
The question of whether it has a net deterrent effect by providing an outlet for such urges, or whether it increases likelihood of offending with a real child or real pictures, is a scientific question. There's no direct evidence on dolls and obviously not on non-existent sexbots, but the indirect evidence suggests the outlet effect is greater than the promotion effect.
Of course, there's plenty of public policy questions where we take the more harmful policy because we find the less harmful policy morally unacceptable (see: drugs). I've definitely talked to people who don't give a flying fuck how many fewer kids get molested, the perverts have to be locked up. Makes no sense to me.
I suspect they won't even want to seek a more concrete answer... we're already into police lying about it... talking about how they only find these dolls at the homes of people being searched for CSAM or molestation and that proves it just promotes it... but no shit you don't find them elsewhere, you're not searching the houses of non-offending pedos and 99.999% of the population doesn't own them.
To repeat what I've said in a different comment, unless I missed something (or there's something relevant in the case file not included in the account above) it appears perfectly reasonable to me to believe that he is not unusually attracted sexually to children, but that the prosecution pulled that claim out of their asses.
"it appears perfectly reasonable to me to believe that he is not unusually attracted sexually to children"
Which has fuck all to do with the question at hand. It is not against the law to be a potential pervert who has an "unusual" sexual attraction to children. We in the United States don't punish people for entertaining all sorts of deranged fantasies or "unusual" sexual attractions, and right wingers should be grateful for that.
Right wingers should be grateful?
I'm sure that there are more than a few perverts among "right wingers," but I find it hard to think of anyone in public life as profoundly disturbed as the Podestas, as evidenced by their Satanic art collection.
"anyone in public life as profoundly disturbed as the Podestas, as evidenced by their Satanic art collection"
What is your reason for believing that the Podestas collect satanic art? Have you been reading Alex Jones's mind?
Wait until the sexbots arrive...
So was this a 7-year old child doll, or a 17-year old child doll?
It wasn’t a child doll at all except, maybe, in the airman’s imagination. I gather smaller dolls are cheaper than bigger dolls, all else being equal. And he claims there was a space issue, though why that would be true is unclear. What you imagine while masturbating with one is up to you.
The sex doll apparently caused the airman to have qualms about its child-like size, but it’s not at all clear that that impression was a desired effect for him. No child porn is reported. I don’t know if the anime pillowcases were in the style of the Japanese schoolgirl fetish, which might provide a (non-dispositive?) clue.
But he bought clothes for the doll -- and I somehow suspect that these were children's clothes, if for no reason other than availability of sizes that would fit.
My assumption was he ordered the clothing from the same place he ordered the doll from, and that it was clothing made for the doll.
You’re both making strange assumptions based on nothing. I’m not an expert in this area (I hasten to add, LOL!), but I’ve seen the occasional sex toy catalog and the cheap sex dolls didn’t come with Barbie-like accessory sets, iirc.
3D solid sex dolls are not cheap. We aren't talking about a blow up doll here.
"...I somehow suspect..."
LOL!
"...if for no reason other than availability of sizes that would fit..."
You realize you've just given a reason why possessing children's clothes for the doll, if he did, *wouldn't* necessarily indicate any interest in buggering children?
Meanwhile we also have people in uniform wearing dog bondage masks. https://taskandpurpose.com/news/army-hawaii-dog-bondage-mask/?amp
Tf is going on with the military these days?
Why this is worse than our tranny admiral asst secty for health(!) in a dress is non-obvious to me.
Our (recently-removed?) “gender fluid” head of nuclear waste disposal was also photographed with individuals wearing this kind kind of mask, on all fours and on leashes. I don’t recall if they were wearing military uniforms. This was not deemed disqualifying for anything, though that he was arrested for stealing women’s luggage at airports was. I think.
"Why this is worse than our tranny admiral asst secty for health(!) in a dress is non-obvious to me."
The Public Health Service is a "uniformed service" [IDK why] but not a "armed service". He is not a true admiral, its just more cosplay for him.
Remember too that it not only is 'Uniformed" but exempted people from being drafted -- that's why Fauci joined. He didn't want to go to Vietnam.
who did?
Many did, Mengele. From today's perspective, it may seem incomprehensible; particularly to psychotic narcissists.
Who did? Some volunteered, and some folks even re-upped, and no one forced them all to, AFAIK.
Me, I took my chances and the number on the ball that came out of the cage representing my birthday was good enough to keep me out. Though it was closer than I at first thought it would be.
Most who went to the Nam' were drafted
"Most who went to the Nam’ were drafted"
Not true. The majority were not draftees and only a bit over 30% of deaths were draftees. As usual, Mengele, you'r fubar.
" its just more cosplay for him "
Any different from any previous occupant of that position?
Or different from clergy wearing ridiculous costumes and using silly titles?
Your bigotry has made you and the rest of the clingers the losers of the American culture war. That bigotry will also sink the political aspirations of gun nuts, anti-abortion absolutists, supporters of Israel's right-wing belligerence, and everyone else who has affiliated with the doomed right-wing cause.
Keep up the "Klinging" Jerry!!!!,
I've got the "Over" on total number of "Klings" you use today, could tell you, but then I'd have to....(Top Gun reference), and it just "wouldn't be right".
Do guys in "the Joint" get to see "Top Gun Maverick"????
You'd probably blanch at the Aviation scenes, but lots of toned young men in shorts/no shirts, a "Man" like you should love it!
Frank "that'll just about cover the Flybys"
“Any different from any previous occupant of that position?”
First admiral to have or have had a dick and balls in a dress that I know of. That’s indeed “different”.
Or does your personal experience looking in such places tell you something different?
I am not convinced by the dissent. He is recognizing the defendant’s recognition that his action, if made public, would be socially unacceptable rather than illegal. It is a rather weak dissent, lacking facts to support his position.
I believe he was enlisted and not an officer.
Hence the concept of "Conduct unbecoming an officer" wouldn't apply --- and I wonder if the outcome would have been different had he been an officer.
"Conduct unbecoming" applies to both enlisted and officers - and has for a very long time.
Many enlisted are also Officers (E5 and above in the Air Farce) just the "Non Commissioned" variety, if you'd ever served, you'd have known that.
"(E5 and above in the Air Farce)"
Why do you suppose they are of E5 rank, genius? Clue: when someone refers to an officer in the military, without further qualification, they are referring to commissioned officers O1 (2d lieutenant or equivalent) and above, excluding NCOs and warrant officers. Had you served, you would know that.
Well THAT's the problem,
Navy has "Petty Officers" E4 to E6 and E7 is a "Chief Petty Officer" the ones who actually keep the (Commissioned) Officers in line.
In the Marine Corpse it's the equivalent, "Gunnery Sergeants" want to get all "Private Pyled"?? refer to a Gunnery Sergeant as "Sarge"
And as a Doc, you're right, didn't really consider it serving, more like a really long Summer Camp.
I did serve - and an NCO is not an "officer" for purposes of UCMJ or any other proceeding. NCOs are unambiguously enlisted soldiers and subject to those and only those requirements.
"Officer" in the old 'conduct unbecoming an officer' rule referred only to commissioned officers. (Okay, sometimes also warrant officers - the rules for WOs shifted back and forth over the decades.)
The Democrat Military is so f'n gross and degenerate.
There was a lot to be said for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Pursue."
Amazing that William Juffuhson Clint-house is now recognized as the voice of reason, can you believe it? POTUS 8 years and no war?? (Bosnia/Somalia weren't really wars) Balanced Budget? (who cares if it was Newt's budget? we've had Repubiclown Congresses (and POTUS's) since (and a $1,000,000,000,000 Daf-i-cit predicted for 2022)
A friggin Trillion $, that's a thousand billion.
Frank
Yeah, I don't know why they can't just rape one another with impunity, like they used to.
Clinton ruined it for everyone. Bill did too.
Well it's the Air Farce, not an actual Military organization,
and I'm surprised they don't issue these at whatever they're calling AF Basic training nows a days ("Reaching Higher"? "REALLY want to get High???") You can't train your future Generals in Colorado for 60 years and not have some of it rub (get it? "rub"??) off.
And you know its a weak case when they use the catch-all Article 134. All I wanna know, does this guy (my bigoted assumption, could be a he, she, she/he, he/she, intersex) keep his jet ready?? Of his Drone, Missile, Stove, they all serve, even those who hand out towels at the Base Gym,
Frank
If I am not mistaken, one must be an Officer to command an aircraft or missile.
Yes, honorable enlisted service is honorable, but a lot of it is going to be the grunt work.
Obvious you never served, not even in the "KISS Army",
who the F do you think keeps those Jets flying?? The Drones Droning, The Missiles happily humming away in their Silos??
Hint, they aren't Officers.
"To COMMAND" -- I did not mean to denigrate maintenance but I read your comment as being in command of a jet or missile and I do believe those are officer slots.
The Volokh Conspiracy: 4chan With A Law Degree.
From South Texas College Of Law Houston.
Happy Holidays, Clingers!
Thanks Jerry, I had the "Under" in how long it would take you to post a "Klinger" comment, Over/Under was 8 hours, just squeaked by....
And I didn't realize Jerry S. went to law school.
https://www.bigtrial.net/2022/06/jerry-sandusky-now-jailhouse-lawyer.html#:~:text=In%20a%20motion%20for%20a%20new%20trial%20based,by%20alleging%20sex%20abuse%20that%20never%20really%20happened.
Frank "Klinging like a Mofo"
How did you bet on Prof. Volokh's next use of a vile racial slur?
By his years-long standard (roughly every three weeks), he's about a week overdue. I blame his recent efforts to avoid commenting on the obvious events of the day. He seems to believe he needs to come up with this diversionary fluff and his heart just doesn't seem to be in it.
"The CAAF noted that during the charged time frame, "the 'viewing' of child pornography was not criminalized under the UCMJ, the MCM, military custom or usage, the comprehensive federal statutes, or the majority of state statutes [in 2006]." Really?
Possession of child porn is illegal but you don't have to leave the room to avoid seeing somebody else's. Watch out for "constructive possession". Under Massachusetts law you do have to leave the room if you know people are keeping heroin there. It's an unusual law applicable to just one drug.
How would the viewing/possessing distinction apply to a streaming website, where the person can view it on the website but it's never downloaded or cached on their computer in any sense that would be considered "possession."
Federal law criminalizes “acces[ing child pornography] with intent to view”, which would cover that scenario.
You can't view or stream something online without downloading it to your computer. Even if it's deleted right after you close it, you temporarily possess it in your cache.
” Under Massachusetts law you do have to leave the room if you know people are keeping heroin there.”
But when was the last time it was enforced?
I know of an incident at UMass where someone’s girlfriend OD, the cops came in and found needles and heroin and whatnot all over the place, and nothing happened. He didn’t even get kicked out.
(Now, he *was* Black, but still....)
A quick search finds a guilty plea in 2008. It's not an extinct crime.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-court-of-appeals/1234201.html
"(Now, he *was* Black, but still….)"
Yes, and as we all know, blacks are given special allowance when it comes to the application of drug laws. Don't want to punish people for behavior which is in their God given nature, do we?
The problem is not so much what you don't know, Mr Ed, it's what you know that isn't true.
I recall there have been a number of cases where the defendant got jail time for merely getting a child-like sex doll shipped to them. This would be civilian not military.
Can anyone say if Is that still happening and if so does that have any effect on military law?
Why? do you want one?
You do?
YOU do
Good case for a Code Red.
or have him share a barracks room with Airman Karl "Slingblade" Childers
These are the commenters attracted by a downscale, bigot-hugging, white, male, right-wing blog.
Congratulations, Conspirators!
Eugene - in case this was lost on you - what Bob is saying here is that the servicemember in question should be beaten/tortured and killed by his fellow servicemembers.
You might think about whether you want to tolerate this kind of rhetoric.
It's also not a real thing.
Tell Private Pyle
It might not be. But what Bob is saying is clear. He's not saying, "I think this calls for some quasi-fictional account of what extra-judicial punishment in the military looks like." He's calling for someone to be beaten to death.
People find out you're fucking children dolls? could happen.
The dissent seems based on the judge's disgust rather than any legal reasoning.
If it's that disgusting, surely the perp knew it was criminal.
The Court probably should have addressed the Appellant's claim that the conduct at issue is constitutionally protected under Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558 (2003), if only for the benefit of any court conducting further review in this matter. As the instant Court recognized at footnote 6, "The Lawrence liberty interest applies in the military context. In United States v. Marcum, [60 M.J. 198, 206 (C.A.A.F. 2004),] consistent with the Supreme Court’s holding in Lawrence v. Texas, this Court recognized that wholly private, consensual sexual activity between adults otherwise proscribed by Article 125, UCMJ, is constitutionally protected.” [Internal quotation marks omitted.] The same analysis applies to indecent acts alleged to be prejudicial to good order and discipline under Article 134. See, United States v. Goings, 72 M.J. 202, 206 (C.A.A.F. 2013).
Lawrence describes the liberty interest protected thereby as a personal decision that consenting adults may make. 539 U.S., at 564, 567, 570, 572. That interest, "as a general rule, should counsel against attempts by the State, or a court, to define the meaning of the relationship or to set its boundaries absent injury to a person or abuse of an institution the law protects.” Id., at 567.
The case at bar does not involve conduct outside of the liberty interest protected by Lawrence. The Appellant’s conduct did not involve injury to a person, abuse of an institution the law protects, minors, public conduct, injured or coerced persons, persons in a situation where consent might not be easily refused, or prostitution. Id., at 567, 578.
OTOH, it may be fortuitous that the Court did not address the Lawrence claim, what with calls for SCOTUS to overrule its substantive due process precedents.
It seems like the doctrine of constitutional avoidance would counsel a ruling on non-constitutional grounds here even if the doctrine doesn't bind the USAF Court of Criminal Appeals.
The reversal here was on constitutional grounds -- the absence of fair warning that conduct is punishable violates procedural due process. Often a court that reverses on one ground will address other grounds asserted by the parties in the interest of judicial economy -- if a reviewing court disagrees that one issue is dispositive it will not be necessary for a remand to consider pretermitted issues.
George: Was that wrong? Should I have not done that? I tell you I gotta plead ignorance on this thing because if anyone had said anything to me at all when I first started here that that sort of thing was frowned upon, you know, cause I've worked in a lot of offices and I tell you people do that all the time.
So, when do the prosecutors get charged with "bringing disrepute to the armed forces"? If not for their conduct, the public would never have known about this airman's behavior. They are the ones doing things in public, not the young schmuck.
Doesn't actually sound like a 'child' sex doll - just a small one.