The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Podcast on United States v. Texas
In this Federalist Society podcast on a major immigration case currently before the Supreme Court, I go over the issues at stake, and make some tentative predictions about the case's likely outcome.

In a recent Federalist Society podcast, I went over the issues in United States v. Texas, an important immigration case currently before the Supreme Court (the case should not be confused with the 2021 case with the same title, concerning Texas's SB 8 law anti-abortion law). The case involves a lawsuit filed by the states of Texas and Louisiana challenging the legality of the Biden Administration's immigration enforcement guidelines, which prioritize detention and deportation of those undocumented aliens who are suspected terrorists, those who have committed crimes, and those caught recently at the border. The states claim these priorities violate statutes that seemingly require nondiscretionary detention and deportation of far broader categories of migrants.
In addition to the important substantive issue at stake, there is also the question of whether the two states even have standing to sue the federal government over this issue, and whether it was appropriate for the district court to use the remedy of "vacatur" to forbid implementation of the Biden guidelines.
Both the substantive issue and the two procedural ones could potentially set important precedents for future cases, including some that go far beyond immigration policy.
In the podcast, I consider all three issues, and explain why I think the states should prevail on standing, but Biden should prevail on the merits. If that happens, the Court need not even address the issue of vacatur (because, arguably, there is no need to consider potential remedies if the Court concludes the administration hasn't done anything illegal in the first place).
I also make some tentative predictions about how the case might come out, based on the oral argument. I expect that the Biden Administration will prevail. But it's not entirely clear whether it will do so on standing or on the merits (though I very tentatively think the latter is more likely). My assessment of the oral argument is in some ways similar to Josh Blackman's. He also concludes the administration is likely to win, and is also unsure of whether it will be on the merits, or not.
If the Administration does ultimately prevail, it will be the second big victory the 6-3 conservative-controlled Court gave Biden in an immigration policy case, following Biden v. Texas, issued last June, which allowed Biden to put an end to Trump's "Remain in Mexico" policy.
The conservative justices are very reluctant to rule in favor of immigrants when it comes to issues involving constitutional rights (most notably in the 2018 Trump travel ban case). But they do not seem to be averse to doing so when the issue is separation of powers and the use of executive discretion in a pro-immigrant direction (though of course the same broad discretion can be used the other way). It's also possible that some conservative justices might be happy to use this case to strike a blow against what they regard as overbroad theories of state standing (though they were generally more skeptical of the administrations' standing arguments than the liberal justices were).
In this case, as in the loan forgiveness litigation before the Supreme Court, the Biden Administration has adopted an incredibly narrow theory of standing (in contrast with traditional liberal views on the subject), while conservative litigants have defended relatively broad theories (which is at odds with traditional conservative approaches to the subject). For those keeping score, I have long advocated the near-total abolition of constitutional standing restrictions, and have stuck to that view, regardless of the ideological valence of the case at hand. Thus, I support standing for the state plaintiffs in both the loan forgiveness case (where I think they deserve to win on the merits), and United States v. Texas (where I think they deserve to lose). In a few months, we will likely learn where the Supreme Court stands on standing in these cases.
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An "immigrant" is someone who comes here legally, ihttps://www.foxnews.com/world/afghan-special-force-commando-seeking-asylum-gets-caught-broken-us-immigration-systemn compliance with our laws -- these are "illegal aliens" and ought to be called that.
And before you get all warm & fuzzy about them, let's look at the saga of one Abdul Wasi Safi -- see https://www.foxnews.com/world/afghan-special-force-commando-seeking-asylum-gets-caught-broken-us-immigration-system
Above and beyond everything else, he was arrested in a group of 90, amongst millions crossing illegally, and he is the only one they want to send back?!? On what basis?
And then, Brandon had promised to let him into the US in that botched "evacuation" 18 months ago, and if this man is who he says he is (and hopefully the US Army has something regarding records) then he deserves to be let in because he was helping us in a war.
If we don't, we will never have locals helping us again -- and we are going to need them. Let's start with the narco-terrorists in Mexico -- we eventually are going to have to do something about them because Mexico can't and we're going to have to have credible promises to hide people who help us (e.g. local Mexican officials) from gang revenge.
And the other thing Ilya is that while we are still somewhat a Federal Republic, we are also a democracy where the people get what they want. Pick your poison — Orange Man or Brandon — slightly more than half the country voted for the man. And Goodwin’s Law notwithstanding, and with the asterisk of it being a parliamentary system, Hitler won a plurality in what was pretty much a fair election (in the midst of the collapse of the Wiemar Republic). (And our economy could well go into the economic morass of the Wiemar Republic...)
It’s not mentioned much, but President Eisenhower — Eisenhower of all people — had “Operation W e tb a ck” which involved mass deportations that included some people who were actually US citizens. It happened, you can look it up.
Yeats put it best: “and the middle shall cease to hold” — if something isn’t done about these ILLEGAL immigrants, the people will vote for another President who will do this again. And a far more Liberal SCOTUS said nothing the last time…
1) Our economy is strong.
2) It's not "Goodwin's Law."
3) That's not what Yeats wrote.
OK, Yeats' actual phrase is "...the centre cannot hold..."
Here is the entire sentence:
"Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/43290/the-second-coming
"Since the U.S. withdrawal of military forces from Afghanistan in August (2021), the U.S. has evacuated more than 76,000 Afghan nationals to the U.S., according to a spokesperson for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security."
Our record of rewarding those who help us is better than you think.
and not a single future Moe Atta among the whole bunch, Watta Country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
76,000 Afgan Nationals -- but how many who actually helped us?
And if we got all of those who did out, why are there veterans groups spending lots of time and treasure attempting to do so now?
No one said we got all out.
And from the reporting on this case (which only presents one side so we don't know everything), it does appear some things might have been done better.
I'm just saying you (and Fox), are taking one questionable case and sliding off the slippery end.
Torn here, because Intellectually I want strong borders, and not to ever have to "Push 1 for English" (my luck, the one other language I'm fluent in (some question whether English qualifies) gets me absolutely nichts in Amurica,
But selfishly I love the cheap (and skilled) labor, trying to remember the last time I hired a "real" Amurican for any Home repairs/Yardwork/Pool maintenance, heck, even the "technicians" at the BMW place (Mrs. Drackman's 3, I don't drive vehicles made by nations that murdered 6 million of my people, unless they're really good) are Jose, Julio, and Igor (Croat),
And arguably the worst criminal of the last 60 years to come across the May-he-co border was Lee Harvey O himself, after his trip to May-he-co City, how that Commie traitor wasn't on some kind of list in 1963 is the only thing that makes me think maybe it was more than just a Commie traitor loser with a target of opportunity...
Of couse, it's just the same reason nobody noticed Moe Atta and friends were buying expensive simulator time but never practicing takeoffs/landings, just General Incompetence.
Frank
"And arguably the worst criminal of the last 60 years to come across the May-he-co border was Lee Harvey O himself, after his trip to May-he-co City, how that Commie traitor wasn’t on some kind of list in 1963"
Apparently he was: https://www.newsweek.com/lee-harvey-oswald-and-soviet-union-what-jfk-files-reveal-694441
But the fact remains that he crossed the Mexico/US border legally.
You had mandatory Englischunterricht starting in first grade and had/have no problem with that (and have taken advantage of your foreign language skills), yet you complain if there are some multi-language opportunities here in the US.
Apedad: https://www.propublica.org/article/literacy-adult-education-united-states
Yup, we have an adult literacy problem (and from the article, mainly in Tennessippi).
Don't see the direct correlation to multi-language opportunities though.
I'm saying we don't teach our own language very well.
When they passed the Federal CDL law 30+ years ago, those who already had a state CDL -- people currently driving heavy trucks -- could get their license transferred over if they passed a written test (and had a clean license).
A third of these men had to have the test read to them because they weren't able to read the essay questions. Seriously...
Once again, a completely unverifiable anecdote by Dr. Ed, on a topic that he would have no way to know anything about.
Well das ist das Problem, I learned my Engrish in Amurican Pubic Screwels, it was the German I learned from Mutti, used to sing German lullabies to me as a baby, apparently I was a bit "difficult" .
Only "advantages" is I can blend in while in Deutschland and see what they really think about us (you don't want to know, The Right Wing Extremists are the least of it, they just don't like us in Allegemeine (or Berlin, Frankfurt) probably something to do with 2 world wars and occupation (the don't like the Roosh-uns either)
I can habla a fair bit of "Street Spanish" esp when I play hoops with Julio down at the Schoolyard,
Frank "Comprende??"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu5a0Bl8eY
I think it is a generational thing -- those over age 80 remember JFK saying that he was "a jelly donut" (Berliner) -- but also that he WAS IN Berlin and what the US had done for West Berlin (the airlift) and what the Marshall Plan -- and there still was memory of what the French had done to them after WW-I and that the Americans were doing the exact opposite.
George Mitchell made a point about Germany in the 1980s -- when Reagan started talking about "limited nuclear war", the Europeans (Germans in particular) interpreted it as fighting a nuclear war *here* and didn't like that.
For example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpu5a0Bl8eY
And then you really have to be over 30 to remember the night that the Berlin Wall went down,
And here is the English version, written after the German version had become a popular hit, and I believe more political.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w1QandHqEs
If JFK had a decent advance man he'd have said it like a local "Ik bin Berliner" (Mom was from Potsdam) Who was that joker anyway? "and we've got to do the 2 slow turns through a plaza with multiple tall buildings with open windows, what could go wrong????"
And then this: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-heres-source-cia-jfks-assassination
BTW, the National Archives just released ~ 13,0000 documents.
https://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/release2022
I don’t see Somin’s reasoning here. The constitutional provision that should apply is Congress’ duty to protect every state from invasion. A flood of millions of illegal immigrants certainly qualifies.
And if the Court should rule for the Biden administration, I suggest Gov. Abbott use his right under Article I, Section 9, to call up his militia and fight that invasion.
Or how about the idea that states don't have to tolerate those whose presence in them is illegal.
OK, I'll bite....which clause in Art. I, Sect. 9 are you referring to?
He's referring to Article 4, Section 4.
A "flood" of billions of illegal immigrants certainly wouldn't even qualify. An invasion is a military thing. Migration is not invasion.
How do you deal with guerrilla war under that definition?
How about terrorists, for that matter....
Guerrilla warfare and terrorism are conducted in secrecy, and the perps want anonymity and concealment.
Invasions are the opposite.
Also illegal immigration is none of these.
funny how libs love expansive definitions when it suits their ends
"military invasion" is not a redundant term. Were the Gothic women and children invaders of the Roman Empire--the Romans seemed to think so.
"In this case, as in the loan forgiveness litigation before the Supreme Court, the Biden Administration has adopted an incredibly narrow theory of standing (in contrast with traditional liberal views on the subject), while conservative litigants have defended relatively broad theories (which is at odds with traditional conservative approaches to the subject)."
"incedibly narrow'---no. The Administration's position is basically that the economic arrangement between borrowers and the federal government is simply none of anyone else's business, whether they are harmed or not. This is a classic jus tertii argument. One may disagree with it, but it's not "incredibly narrow."
The plaintiffs' position boils down to an assertion that they are somehow third party beneficiaries of the loan arrangements between feds and borrowers. For purposes of what the borrowers have to repay, they are complete strangers to the arrangement. That's why they don't have standing.
It's incredibly narrow compared to traditional liberal arguments about standing.
I’d say it’s off to the side—liberals have traditionally looked to expand what could be considered harm–jus tertii, to an extent, concedes harm, but says more that you are asserting the rights of a real party in interest rather than a right to prevent/undo/be compensated for the collateral damage you are suffering.
It’s 12(b)(2) vs 12(b)(6).
Think about this--let's say that forgiveness was an accomplished fact, could a court order a borrower to repay or declare that the borrower had to pay?