Today in Supreme Court History: October 30, 1735

10/30/1735: President John Adams's birthday.

President John Adams

Comments

[Dan Schiavetta]

Jones v. Meehan, 175 U.S. 1 (decided October 30, 1899): language of treaty, and rights of inheritance as to Indian property, are construed as members of the tribe would understand them, not by looking to law of the state (at issue was a 10-foot wide strip of land along the shore of Red Lake in Minnesota)

Tuggle v. Netherland, 516 U.S. 10 (decided October 30, 1995): failure of state to provide independent psychiatrist to possibly rebut state showing of future dangerousness (required by Ake v. Oklahoma, 1985) resulted in vacatur of death sentence even though other aggravating factors were validly shown

[Syd Henderson]

I'm guessing Jones v. Meehan was decided on the basis of federal law superseding state law?

[Dan Schiavetta]

It was probably more on the basis of what was a true "meeting of the minds":

In construing any treaty between the United States and an Indian tribe, it must always (as was pointed out by the counsel for the appellees) be borne in mined that the negotiations for the treaty are conducted, on the part of the United States, an enlightened and powerful nation, by representatives skilled in diplomacy, masters of a written language, understanding the modes and forms of creating the various technical estates known to their law, and assisted by an interpreter employed by themselves; that the treaty is drawn up by them and in their own language; that the Indians, on the other hand, are a weak and dependent people, who have no written language and are wholly unfamiliar with all the forms of legal expression, and whose only knowledge of the terms in which the treaty is framed is that imparted to them by the interpreter employed by the United States, and that the treaty must therefore be construed not according to the technical meaning of its words to learned lawyers, but in the sense in which they would naturally be understood by the Indians.

Negotiations for the tribe were carried out by a chief whose proud and unashamed name was Moose Dung (which is a comment on how native peoples consider all things as part of Creation, a circle of life), and the opinion goes on at length as to how they were carried out largely not in language but through signs, with the chief signing the treaty with a mark.

[Jerry B.]

Sort of condescending.

[Dan Schiavetta]

True but on its own terms fair minded.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Sounds like a good description of how a lot of these treaties were drawn up.

[Dr. Ed 2]

I think you will find that the tribe burned dried Moose dung for fuel.

[Randal]

You know, when someone decided not to attack Kavanaugh, you'd done three posts about it by now.

[Dr. Ed 2]

The response to the attack on Paul Pelosi will be interesting because it's not the first time it's happened. 3 years ago, much of Bangor, ME was shut down because Susan Collins' husband got an envelope falsely claiming to contain Ricin.
https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/news/life-after-threats-sen-collins-husband-thomas-daffron-speaks-six-months-after-opening-a-letter-claiming-to-contain-ricin/97-625087f8-21c0-4e09-acc4-6d3555c9eeff

[LawTalkingGuy]

There was one post by Irina (zero by then men and certainly none by Blackman) when Esther Salas’s son was murdered by a trump loving MRA lawyer. All the comments tried to blame everything but the Trump-loving MRA lawyer for that. Then there were zero posts by anyone when it turned out he had a hit list with Sotomayor’s name on it.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

I was going to join the game of pin-the-ideology-on-the-murderer by pointing out that he wanted to make draft registration sex-neutral, just like woke egalitarians want to do (they want everyone to register).

Then I realized it’s a silly game.

Then I realized silliness is not a good enough reason not to post a comment.

[Frank Drackman]

"Knock Knock"
"Who's There?"
"A Nudist Freak from Berkley who wants to borrow a Hammer"
"Does this look like Home Depot?"

So who in their right mind (I'm a lefty so while "Right Brained" not right of mind) lets anyone in at 2am?
And don't tell me the nude guy broke in through a window, that was the Cops.

Frank

[Noorondoor]

And nearly 300 years later, the nation that men like this sacrificed their lives to build has been reduced to a disgusting hellhole where men who like to groom little kids are celebrated.

[Sarcastr0]

So do you live in this United States you so loath?

[LawTalkingGuy]

The founding generation was famous for refraining from coercing minors into sex…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sally_Hemings

[Mr. Bumble]

Always with the smart ass snark post.

[LawTalkingGuy]

I see that you don’t disagree with the point.

[Mr. Bumble]

What is "the point"? Be a little more explicit than just linking to a Wiki article.

[LawTalkingGuy]

I mean you could read his comment, my comment, and the article and figure it out.

But for the sake of education, I’ll indulge you. Trying to claim that the US has strayed from the founders’ vision due to apparent modern sexual degeneracy and “grooming” is kind of absurd in light of the fact that the founders were engaged in the routine physical and sexual abuse of minors themselves.

[Mr. Bumble]

Your response was to a post by Noorondoor which I don't agree with.
My comment on your post was that you hardly refuted him by expanding Thomas Jefferson alleged relationship with Sally Hemmings to a larger group, the Founders.

[Sarcastr0]

I think the larger point is that sexual mores are not some immutable object, and playing the game of what the Founders would about their country today is kinda crazy.

[Frank Drackman]

Pig Virus was the best John Adams ever.

[Dan Schiavetta]

Under Sam Adams’s picture the label on the bottle says, “Brewer, Patriot”.

In Britain it probably says, “Brewer, Terrorist”.

[bernard11]

Is it technically possible to be a patriot of a country that doesn't exist, and never has existed?

When did Sam Adams become a patriot?

[Mr. Bumble]

Hitting the Sam Adam's early?

[Dan Schiavetta]

good one

[bernard11]

No.

Nothing against Sam, or the beer, just a semantic question.

[Drewski]

The Patriots (capitalization intentional) was the term used for American colonists who opposed British colonial policies, and in many cases British rule in America. Later they began to call themselves Whigs, as the word "patriot" had taken on a connotation of what we would today call terrorism. Sam Adams was unquestionably a Patriot, in the same sense that Eugene Volokh is a Conspirator.

[bernard11]

Thank for the information, Drewski.

[Mr. Bumble]

Never watch him or Fox for that matter.

[Frank Drackman]

Most Repubiclowns I know celebrate Easter, I'm 1/2 Jewish (the Good Half) so I only celebrate the good part.