The Volokh Conspiracy
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Guardrails of Democracy, Extended: Comparing Notes On The Team Libertarian Report
Fifth post in the symposium on the National Constitution Center "Restoring the Guardrails of Democracy" project. Walter Olson of Team Libertarian comments on similarities and differences between the three reports.
One of the fun conditions of this project is that the three teams did not in any way collaborate with each other or get an advance look at what the others were going to say. As a result some recommendations overlap between teams in a positive way, some conflict, and many others simply don't engage one way or the other. For example, we at Team Libertarian reached very similar conclusions to Team Progressive on reforming the Electoral Count Act, but a mostly opposite conclusion (as Prof. Foley has noted) on whether government should seek to regulate false statements about elections. And although Team Conservative's comments on restricting presidential emergency powers both dovetail with ours and add useful detail, few of our other recommendations engage.
Although we and Team Conservative may have marched off in different directions, I and many Cato Institute colleagues are on board with much of what they say. Runaway administrative agencies usurping legislative power? Yes, a big problem. Congressional abdication of power stretching over for a half-century or more, shifting responsibility to the President and the judiciary? Definitely. I agree too that there's a decent case for making it at least a bit easier to amend the U.S. Constitution. (Here's a Cato fellow writing in 2011 proposing a modest reduction in the threshold number of states needed for proposing and ratifying an amendment.) The need to move past a broken primary system in which candidates with independent and crossover appeal get knocked out because they can't appease their party's most zealous base voters? Right again.
On the topic of elections, we're also in agreement with Team Conservative's observation that campaign finance reforms have backfired and that we should be repealing such laws rather than adding more. But let's also get real: the election world wasted much of 2021 in a battle over whether Democrats would succeed in ramming through an omnibus package expanding these laws yet further. As I've argued, this package, the so-called For The People Act, 1) put its thumb in the eye of libertarian and constitutionalist principle, and 2) was supremely irrelevant to the distinctive challenges of the events leading up to Jan. 6. Shouldn't we focus on reform efforts that have a chance of doing relevant good between now and the next grave election crisis down the road – which we might find ourselves in the middle of by a date as early as, say, 2024?
Which brings me to some policy disagreements with Team Conservative. I can't say I'm persuaded by the idea of letting Congress override presidential vetoes by simple majority vote, as Tennessee does. The Founders meant to establish serious checks and balances against the dangers of hasty legislation, and gutting the power of the president's veto would knock out one of the most important of those checks. (For what it's worth, my home state of Maryland sets its veto-override threshold at three-fifths rather than two-thirds – not that I'm recommending that, either.) On bringing back the legislative veto, I share the misgivings about that innovation expressed by Antonin Scalia, then editor of Regulation, many years ago.
Now on to Team Progressive. On one major point we agree strongly: it's incredibly dangerous when a controlling faction of one of the two great political parties wrongly contends that honest and correctly tabulated elections were stolen or rigged. The Progressive report gives this problem a central place in its analysis, and that seems right to me.
Yet there are differences of mood and terminology in our approaches as well. As I commented on Twitter the other day, I continue to search for phrases other than "Big Lie" and "election denier" that would let us criticize both these things without using terminology associated with you-know-what. Millions of persons sincerely believe the false claims in question. They are truly convinced that they, not we, are doing the right thing and standing up for fair and free elections. There are some genuine villains out there feeding them lies, as well as crazies irresponsibly stoking mass delusion. But the ordinary believers are also our friends, our relatives, and our neighbors. We cannot stop being those things to them if America is to gather back its wits and turn back down the road toward some semblance of unity.
As to policy, I'm a convinced advocate of ranked-choice voting, but I'd caution that its advantages are relatively subtle; it won't put out the fire of public disbelief in election results. The fact is that in some key states, election fabulists may presently be popular enough to win, or at least put up a strong contest, under whichever set of rules is used. (I also think the plain-vanilla version of RCV, sometimes called instant-runoff voting, is better suited to today's America than the more complex "round-robin" variant that Foley recommends.)
We and Team Progressive likely part company on some issues of federalism and decentralization. Ned Foley and Ilya Somin have already discussed this a bit as to foot voting, and I suspect that our teams may also diverge on to what extent the federal government should play a greater role in supervising the states in election administration; we caution against this at several points.
Also on the Foley-Somin exchange linked above, I'll mention for what it's worth that I'm probably a little more positive about civics education than Ilya is. Still, I do recognize there can be difficult problems in legitimately educating the public about how the electoral system works, on the one hand, while avoiding the specter of taxpayer-funded propaganda campaigns, on the other. (As an example of the challenges involved, here's how the Nebraska Secretary of State set about refuting myths and rumors about the 2020 count.)
Thanks to the National Constitution Center for making possible this summer's exchange of views with writers and scholars we respect, and to the Volokh Conspiracy for hosting this shorter symposium this week.
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"Now on to Team Progressive. On one major point we agree strongly: it's incredibly dangerous when a controlling faction of one of the two great political parties wrongly contends that honest and correctly tabulated elections were stolen or rigged. The Progressive report gives this problem a central place in its analysis, and that seems right to me."
So, the Progressives agree that all the Democratic hollering about non-existent Russian interference in the 2016 election was a problem?
I don't think so.
" non-existent Russian interference "
What would be left of this blog if the lies and bigotry were removed?
Speaking of guardrails of democracy, the Washington Post reports that the wife of a Supreme Court justice attempted partisan election subversion in another state (Wisconsin, joining Arizona) in 2020.
Will any of the conservative cowards among the Volokh Conspirators write a word about this? Or will this involve another invocation of the Kozinski-Eastman Doctrine?
Carry on, clingers. And cowards. You might as well make Mike Lindell a Conspirator.
This comes from appeasing the Kirklands of the world. They don't respect you for your appeasement, it simply emboldens them to be more vicious (if that were possible).
The Kirklands of our world need no appeasement. We are the victors in the American culture war, on whom the conservative casualties must rely for permission, courtesy, and leniency.
Yes, conservatives can certainly rely on your courtesy. I'm sure your leniency would be just as nice, if you were in a position to exercise it.
You, in your own turn, will have to rely on the permission and leniency of those in the establishment who find you useful. Once they no longer find Brownshirts like you to be useful, it will be 1934 all over again.
I expect an improving, strong future for America.
The future belongs to you!
The future belongs to reason, inclusiveness, modernity, science, freedom, fairness, education, tolerance, and progress.
At the expense of ignorance, bigotry, superstition, backwardness, insularity, authoritarianism, unearned privilege, dogma, and those who pine for illusory good old days.
I'm just along for the ride, mostly. And enjoying that ride.
"candidates with independent and crossover appeal"...
...should build their own parties.
Assuming the laws get better so you don't have to be a crazy billionaire (I mean Perot) to create your own viable party.
I knew Ross Perot. A decade before he ran. He was a lot of things good and bad but crazy was absolutely not one of them. He was about as far from crazy as you could get.
OK, eccentric, then.
What's the difference between eccentric and crazy?
About a few billion dollars.
I'd say the few billion dollars are a consequence of the difference, not the difference itself.
The difference between eccentric and crazy is that eccentric works, crazy doesn't. Years ago, on my first job, the head of the company walked in on me, and told me: "I've been looking at your designs. They're really strange. Now, if they didn't work, I'd just fire you, but they DO work. So, welcome to our R&D department!"
I was eccentric, not crazy.
Though being less young and innocent, maybe it *wasn't* crazy to think he had enemies trying to harass his family. I may have trusted the media's expert diagnoses too much.
Congress, in accordance with the Electoral Count Act, determined (despite great pressure) that the 2020 elections had duly produced Joseph Biden as President. There were some dissenting votes, to be sure. And because of these dissenting votes, even though Congress reached the right decision, we're supposed to flip out and proclaim that we must revamp our laws?
And as in other times of public panic, we must propose cures worse than the disease. The Palmer raids, recall, were in response to a very real bombing campaign. The Sedition Act of 1798 was in response to an actual threat from France and even French sympathizers in the USA. To say nothing of anticommunist laws - even though commies were (are?) extremely evil, it's still permissible to say that many of these laws went too far, without being called procommunist.
So I would have thought that a libertarian blog would have had stronger language to characterize the desire for a new Sedition Act to be applied the next time anyone questions the official vote count in an election. As if we're supposed to assume all future vote counts are going to be fair, and that the greatest danger will be from the people questioning the fairness?
" There were some dissenting votes "
From un-American, gullible, ignorant culture war casualties destined to see their ugly, stale preferences continue to be stomped toward irrelevance in modern America by better Americans.
See, Queenie, Artie agrees with me, we don't need any more laws to protect against these impotent losers.
I favor progress. In this case, clarification and improvement seem be worthwhile.
Thanks Walter for this helpful and thoughtful post. With apologies for my spotty reading to date on this topic: Have/will there be analogous comparison posts from members of the other two teams?
It's not just false claims that the election was stolen, although I agree that that's a huge problem.
I live in Florida. The Democratic nominee for US Senate, Val Demings, is a former Orlando Chief of Police on whose watch violent crime dropped 40%. As a member of the US House, she has gotten a lot of federal money for local police departments. That has not stopped Florida Republicans from running ads claiming that she wants to defund the police.
I think one of the basic problems with democracy is that it depends in part on people being able to see through false claims, and a lot of people seem no longer able to do that. That's not a problem that can be fixed with legislation.
I love to see how quickly the Democrat morons acted as if the Democrats didn't spend a whole summer burning down cities demanding to defund them police then spent two years defunding the police. Just to pretend today they never did.
And what color is the sky in your alternate universe?
President Potato has already been saying we need to fund the police not defund the police.
Well, you and he agree on something then.
Speaking of Guardrails of Democracy, the Federals coordinated with Big Tech firms to censor "misinformation". More Guardrails!
I think the best you can expect out of the lefty commentators here is pretending that it didn't happen. They're getting really practiced at denial.
To make it easier to amend the constitution, you need to amend the constitution
Good luck convincing the many small states the problem is the gigantic coastal concrete canyons don't have enough power already.
If you want to make it easier, make it easier to send out proposals from the senate. Hence let's see if the states want a balanced budget amendment or term limits for sena..wait what?
That isn't what the left meant by make it easier?
Well golllllly! I'll be a lonely 17 year cicada who overslept!
This sounds like a game of Nomic. "Hey, let's make it easier by having fewer states needed to approve!"
The takeaway from Nomic is everybody is a scurrilous, lying fraud trying to twist the constitution and sub-laws to their advantage.
It's based on reality.
Well, Guarding our Sacred Democracy is too important to have any sort of trivial process barriers. It's a grave and serious matter and when it's grave and serious, the elites are granted extra power to implement any guardrails we need to Save Our Democracy!
The leaders of the Democrat party spent the entire four years of the Trump administration baselessly asserting that the 2016 election was "rigged" or "stolen" by Trump, aided and abetted by foreign adversaries. At least now that the shoe is on the other foot Republicans aren't inserting a vile foreign agent twist into the allegations of impropriety. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.
The author should look again at the evidence about the election. Dinesh's film "2000 Mules" is enough to prove it should have been overturned, based on the illegal ballot trafficking alone.
But even if he were correct that the election was fair, a so-called reform that diminishes, rather than strengthens, the only mechanism we have available to overturn a dishonest election is certainly not going to, and should not, persuade anyone who doesn't think the election system is fair now to change his/her mind.
I propose that at a minimum, voting methods that lend themselves to easy cheating, including drop boxes and mass mail-in ballots, should be permanently banned, and that we should add back in a long enough delay between election day and the beginning of the elected officials' terms to allow for a full forensic audit of any contested election contest. Plus a provision for a do-over election if the audit can't reach a firm conclusion in the time available, or if the audit discovers enough failure to follow procedures that the election must be invalidated.
In elections as in games, if a player doesn't want it to be possible to be sure that he isn't cheating, then it's because he intends to cheat.
Dinesh's work of fiction showed a grand total of zero illegally trafficked ballots. (Let alone any for Biden!) Their own data source said that they were lying about what the data was capable of showing!
But of course there are available mechanisms to police elections. There are recounts. There are courts. What is not a proper mechanism is having politicians throwing out the results because they don't like who won.
Or maybe it's because the costs of being "sure" are too high? To actually be 100% "sure" one would need to make it much harder to vote and probably eliminate the secret ballot as well. All policies are tradeoffs, and anyone who pretends otherwise is lying or dumb.
MIGA
The bodies of Mussolini and Petacci were taken to Milan and left in a suburban square, the Piazzale Loreto, for a large angry crowd to insult and physically abuse. They were then hung upside down from a metal girder above a service station on the square. Initially, Mussolini was buried in an unmarked grave but, in 1946, his body was dug up and stolen by fascist supporters.
And in about three weeks Italy will have another election, where they will do this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2022_Italian_general_election
Sit down all of you who voted for Trump. Nobody who voted for the guy who ran twice on a platform of breaking all the guardrails of democracy gets to have an opinion about restoring the guardrails of democracy.
"I agree too that there's a decent case for making it at least a bit easier to amend the U.S. Constitution. (Here's a Cato fellow writing in 2011 proposing a modest reduction in the threshold number of states needed for proposing and ratifying an amendment.)"
Looking at the history of constitutional amendments over the last century, I think it's pretty clear that there's a problem, but it's not on the ratification end, it's on the origination end. Congress just flat out stopped originating constitutional amendments, over 40 years ago.
The best proposal I've heard is to just cut Congress entirely out of the loop, and allow states to ratify amendments regardless of origin, so long as all the ratifying states use the same language. Perhaps do like some states currently do, and have regularly scheduled constitutional conventions. So long as the threshold for ratification remains high, this seems safe enough.
But, of course, cutting Congress out of the amendment loop requires an amendment, and Congress IS in the amendment loop right now. Even conventions are routed through Congress, which has to admit enough states have called for one.
I think we're in for a genuine constitutional crisis, soon, when enough states have demanded a convention, and Congress refuses to hold one.
Maybe they stopped because they could see there was no chance of gaining enough state support to make it worthwhile to bother.
Oh, social media posts! Not my idea of "interference" but whatever.
Clinton spent 550 million [over 200 million more than Trump] but some facebook and twitter posts elected Trump!
Buying Clinton a map of Wisconsin would cost what, $5?
Great comment, bruh. I never saw a poorly phrased Russian post.
That is not why I supported Trump. I understand the flaws of Trump. I read his book in 1984. Nor would I do any business with Trump unless paid in advance.
The reason to support Trump is to get rid of the Deep State.
"I hope you don’t think your significant other has been with “some” other dudes…."
I'm going to adopt the pretense that this blog is a place of civil discourse, therefore I'll simply pretend you didn't say that.
I seem to recall an election decided by an even narrower vote...in 2000.
There were dissenting votes for Trump.
Those must be more Democracy Guardrails.
lol wtf r u fr rn?
Queenie Baby, great comment, bruh, in standard English. Take the rent seeking theory. Take the Ivy indoctrination into big government supremacy over moral authority. Mix them, you self serving, arrogant officials who rule over us. The sole validation of their rules is men with guns. These rules are never validated by methods used for 100 years.
When one is validated by natural experiment, but causes unemplyment, it is rescinded. Mandatory sentencing guidelines dropped crime 40%. They caused lawyer unemployment. So they were rescinded. Now crime is rampant, save for the killing of 100000 criminals, including career criminal, Floyd, by Chinese fentanyl. Imagine this place without fentanyl. It would be, welcome to Fallujah, home of the Democrat Party.
Eh, "deep state" is just a term for institutional inertia, a well-documented phenomenon. No matter how high-minded your policy goals are, they still have to filter down through the hierarchy and jump through bureaucratic hoops. This takes time and can be difficult, merely because people tend to resist change and not because of nefarious conspiracies.
People who use the term to mean "the Illuminati" are delusional or unserious and are best dismissed as cranks and ignored.
Think of the deep state as a 6 justice conservative supreme court majority.
Come to think of it, if you choose to introduce the subject of cuckoldry without provocation, then be ready for some replies in kind.
Your wife doesn't get gang-banged by *some* of the Cleveland Browns, but by all of them.
"a close vote by voters in 2000"
A close vote by the Supreme Court, you were so busy eating popcorn and stroking it to the sight of your wife's gang-banging that you missed the point.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/despite-objections-congress-certifies-donald-trump-s-election-n704026
Muh Guardrails!
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/no-trump-electoral-college-challenge-233294
Plus the entire Canadian Olympic hockey team.
Nor does your wife limit herself to the human species, she likes to experiment with sheep, rhinoceri, and warthogs.
...unless you're a very silly person?
I'd ask your wife about my deficiencies, but she has her mouth full.
It's the unelected, unaccountable, unfireable Administrative State.
Don't be such a constant douche.
10 insurrectionist facists are just "goofballs", 11 insurrectionist fascists become a threat to our sacred democracy!
Good one, Bootlicker.
I'm sorry for failing to take account of your limited mental faculties when making my points.
A majority of both houses of Congress settled the election in 2021 and confirmed Biden as the winner.
A majority of the Supreme Court, 5-4, settled the election in 2000 and confirmed Bush II as the winner.
That's a narrower margin than in Congress, 2020.
Are you really such sore winners that you're going to complain that you won a vote but a minority voted against you?
Look, you somebitch, if you check the definition, the term "some" tends to be associated with the term "unspecified." I'll be charitable and assume that you were actually ignorant of this when you typed your foolishness.
Apparently, we should lock up anyone in future elections who dares question the count, because in this election you...won?
Ah, but it wasn't by a big enough majority!
But the Supreme Court in 2000 only had a 5-4 majority for Tweedledee. The Tweedledum supporters had a very threatening minority.
But I'm glad you can laugh about the "recount issue" now, because both the Tweedledee and the Tweedledum supporters were freaking out about it at the time.
"A majority of the Supreme Court, 5-4, settled the election in 2000 and confirmed Bush II as the winner."
Bullshit.
Bullshit first because the Court was 7-2 on the EPC violation, they were only 5-4 on the remedy; 2 of the justices in the majority thought that there was still time to do a recount under uniform rules, 5 didn't. Only the 2 in the minority thought that the way the Florida supreme court was doing that recount was legitimate!
But also bullshit because all the Court did was let the already certified result in Florida stand, which then went to Congress just like any Presidential election.
"they were only 5-4 on the remedy"
I don't see how that contradicts my remark.
"all the Court did was let the already certified result in Florida stand, which then went to Congress just like any Presidential election"
I don't see how that contradicts my remark.
The proceedings in Congress were perfunctory, as opposed to the Supreme Court decision which, as you say, decided on the "remedy" of stopping the count.
The count was long since over. The recount, too. This was more like the re-re-recount; All the Court put a stop to was the Florida supreme court's effort to keep recounting over and over until Gore happened to win one.
Or, in other words, "A majority of the Supreme Court, 5-4, settled the election in 2000 and confirmed Bush II as the winner."
Let's see, you introduced the subject of cuckoldry and then you introduced the subject of impotence...who knows what experiences of yours caused those particular insults to occur to you. I came down to your level because I believe in meeting people where they are.
Maybe exposing your deficiencies was the price you felt you had to pay in order to avoid discussing your proposed new Sedition Act. Meant to prevent a recurrence of...your victory in the electoral count?
Going behind the distraction of our mutual compliments, there's the issue that you want to empower a politician involved in an election contest to call upon a sympathetic prosecutor and a ham-sandwich grand jury to jail his opponents.
The problem is that there are a lot of people in the middle: Not high enough to be replaced with changes of administration, not low enough to have no influence on policy. Middle management.
The "permanent bureaucracy" are the middle management, not the top management or the workers.
You broke into his ghostwriter's home and read the drafts three years before he published the book?