The Volokh Conspiracy
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"See You Next Tuesday"
I did not know this.
From Doyle v. Vault PK, an opinion by Judge Eddie Sturgeon (Cal. Super. Ct., San Diego County, July 13, 2022):
The purpose of this Minute Order is to address a statement made by Plaintiffs counsel, Timothy Scott, made on the record during trial on June 30, 2022. Specifically, while Mr. Scott was addressing the Court, and after this Court orally granted Defendant MTS's motion for nonsuit, Mr. Scott stated as follows:
"…I hope this doesn't sound unctuous, but just to end the weekend on a good note, I want to thank the court staff. I want to say to have a good weekend to Mr. DeMaria. I want to say have a good weekend to Ms. Frerich. And I want to say have a good weekend to both MTS counsel. I'll See you next Tuesday. See you next Tuesday."
Completely unaware of the intended meaning of "See you next Tuesday," (see infra), the Court responded, "How kind."
On Tuesday, July 5, 2022, counsel for MTS approached the Court and requested to be heard about an issue concerning the above statement made by Mr. Scott on June 30, 2022. The Court and all counsel met in chambers to discuss the issue. The in-chambers meeting was recorded and documents consisting of various emails were provided to the Court. During this meeting it was revealed, that unbeknownst to the Court, the term "See you next Tuesday," is a serious covert insult directed towards women. (See https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/see-you-next-tuesday/.) It was also revealed during the in-chambers meeting that Mr. Scott intentionally made the statement with the full knowledge of the meaning of the phrase. Mr. Scott tried to explain that his deliberate use of the phrase was an "inside joke" between him and one of this firm employees which he expected no one in the courtroom would detect. However, it is not a joke to this Court that Mr. Scott made this egregious and offensive insult intentionally to two female attorneys via a coded message. In fact, but for Ms. Lagasse bringing it to the Court's attention, this wrongdoing would have been undetected. Mr. Scott not only attempted to deceive all counsel, but also this Court, into believing he genuinely was wishing everyone a nice weekend when in fact he was purposefully directing a derogatory epithet toward the female defense attorneys who had just prevailed in a nonsuit in this case.
"An attorney is an 'officer of the court' who, by virtue of his or her professional position, undertakes certain 'special duties … to avoid conduct that undermines the integrity of the adjudicative process.'" In other words," '[l]t is vital to the integrity of our adversary legal process that attorneys strive to maintain the highest standards of ethics, civility, and professionalism in the practice of law.' Indeed, unwarranted personal attacks on the character or motives of the opposing party, counsel, or witnesses are inappropriate and may constitute misconduct." "When, during the course of trial, an attorney violates his or her obligations as an officer of the court, the judge may control the proceedings and protect the integrity of the court and the judicial process by reprimanding the attorney.'
Mr. Scott's statement directed to Ms. Lagasse and Ms. Oberrecht is reprehensible and will not be tolerated in this courtroom. As such, for reasons stated above, the Court finds that it has a duty to alert the State Bar of California of Mr. Scott's conduct on June 30, 2022 and will be filing a Discipline Referral with the State Bar.
Just to be clear, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and often "see you next Tuesday" means see you next Tuesday (see, e.g., here). (And don't confuse it with "see you next Wednesday.") But here Scott admitted that he was using it deliberately, even though he says he hadn't expected opposing counsel to pick up on it. And of course in a courtroom—and, more generally, in the litigation process—lawyers aren't allowed to use vulgar insults towards each other, whether based on sex or race or anything else, and whether they're coded or overt.
For a different perspective of the matter, see footnote 2 in People v. Arno (Cal. Ct. App. 1979). Look that up in your Funk & Wagnall's.
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“I did not know this”.
Spoken like a man who hasn’t had a teenage daughter or two hanging around in the last decade or so.
Exactly. I've had two teenage sons hanging around, but either they don't say that, or are careful not to say it about me. (I will say that I don't think I've ever called anyone a "cunt," in code or otherwise, but I hear others have a different view.)
I can honestly say I've never heard the word actually used except as an engineering measurement, and not even that in years.
The lawyer profession is all feminists. Feminism is not even real. It is a masking ideology for the lawyer plunder of the productive party. I used to think there was a bias against the male. Then I spoke to a female doctor and a stay at home husband who was a lawyer. The profession will plunder the productive party. The See You Next Tuesday female judge asked her ex husband out for a date after the proceedings. She liked his rhetoric. I offered to file charges against the judge, but the doctor wanted to just forget. She got unfairly hosed.
And now the scumbag lawyer profession wants to do to my homosexual friends.
Someone, come up with a greeting that is code for scumbag.
I can't stop saying it on Twitter.
I heard it (from an engineer) as "thin as a red c_nt hair". I thought the specificity was amusing (but I still disapprove of the language).
Disapproval of the language is public virtue signalling in a realm of cancellation, the Big Brother of frownie facing and tsk tsking.
This, in turn, is driven by lawyers hyping psyclogical damage woes to amplify paydays. It's part of a worldview setting engineered to maximize lawsuit profits.
You can't sue for much if not much damage is done. But if you throw your wrist to your brow and exclaim, "Oh my stars!", and collapse like an antebellum belle hearing a rake mention a hog's balls he saw down in the barn, well, your whalebone-corsetted figure ain't the only figure in this financial equation.
We referred to fine measurements as “fine as frog’s fur. So fine it can’t be seen!”
Now that I think of it, this was after women were admitted to the practice.
I heard it often enough from both engineers and Navy folks by its acronym RCH, the first letter of which I was told early on stood for 'Royal,' used as an expression describing a very small amount: "The alignment is off by an RCH."
A few years ago we had a major HR blowup. We were having a meeting to design a water chiller. An HR intern heard us use the term "head pressure" and went running to her supervisor claiming that we were making "sexist" remarks. Head pressure is the force of the fluid at the intake of a pump and needs to be included in the sizing of the pump.
You guys need to get out more.
Eugene, you have children. You have a great responsibility. Please, encourage another profession or tech or science or even drug dealers. Do not let them become scumbag deniers, the most toxic people in the US.
I think it's more of a girl clique thing.
I am the only one in my extended family who did not know this expression. Now, I cannot stop using it on Twitter. I am going to get banned again. I will then be able to devote a lot more time to this blog.
D'oh, meant to say "are careful not to say it around me." (I can't speak to whether they said it about me, but not around me.)
They didn’t say it about us.
We had four and they knew a handful of girls at school that were see you next Tuesdays. I didn’t get it for a while, finally had to ask.
" teenage daughter or two hanging around in the last decade"
My daughter is 25 and I've never heard the term.
I suppose she was lucky enough not to come across any see you next Tuesdays. Our youngest is 25 and didn’t really say it. It was more the older girls.
Literally, the next Monday was a holiday. The next working day was Tuesday. So, even if he was aware of some obscure meaning the phrase could have, what was he supposed to say, "See you next day after Monday"?
Wait, didn't he admit that this was a "deliberate use of the phrase" as an "inside joke," and not just straight-up "we'll meet here again next Tuesday"? If he had said, "your honor, I just meant that we'd be meeting next Tuesday, since that's the next court day," it would have been a very different matter.
I'm sure he thought it was somewhat arch to use a coded slur in a context where it was actually the correct phrase. Thus producing a certain degree of ambiguity.
But it actually was a case of seeing them next Tuesday, which somehow seems exonerating.
Except, as Prof. V points out, counsel acknowledged it was meant as the coded slur. If he had said "I didn't know that phrase had a secondary meaning and I'm sorry for the implication," I think he would have been fine. But there are so many other things he could have said that would not implicate that phrase - "have a nice weekend," "see you next week," "bye," etc.
I think the slur is when he repeated it.
"See you next Tuesday, C.*.N. T. "
Brett, this deep dive into the dates of these proceedings, though admirable, is a bit concerning as to how much you invest daily into this casual blog.
Also to Professor Volokh. After living in Europe for 10 years I can attest that the English, especially English women, are absolutely horrified at saying or hearing the word c***. Including euphemisms. It is the worst word you can say in Britain.
Deep dive? The dates were literally mentioned in the OP.
He was not only "aware of" it; he intended it. Why do you insist on making up your own facts?
He could've said, "See you on Tuesday," or "See you next week," or nothing at all, since he had already said, "Have a good weekend."
David, you need to move to North Korea. They prosecute their political opponents there. You will fit in. See you next Tuesday, Hon.
Likely he had a trail of texts or tweets to his buddies which if he did not promptly come clean with the judge, and decided to run with plausible deniability, he would ultimately have been in deeper shit.
Almost certainly he realized and applied the wisdom of the phrase, 'when you find yourself in a hold, stop digging'.
Being totally out of it, can anyone explain how that phrase gets to be a highly derogatory insult to women? Seriously, I don't get it, how did that evolve?
Treat is as an acronym.
Had to follow the link myself before I got it, admittedly.
Kind of related to the song “If You See Kay” from a few decades back.
Or Britney Spears's "If u seek Amy."
"If you see Kay" was a line in the play "Ulysses in Nighttown", which I got to deliver in a production of the play my freshman year of college. Nobody had to explain THAT line.
It's a quote from Joyce's novel Ulysses. I'm not familiar with the play (which is apparently based on the novel), but in the novel, the follow up line contains the same acronym as the original post here is discussing.
It is a weird, sort of acronym. The first two words are the sounds ("see" = "c", "you" = "u"). The second two words are just the first letters ("next" = "n", "Tuesday" = "t"). If you put all of those together, you get the decoded version of the word. (I'm not typing the actual slur because I don't want this comment to get red flagged for abusive language.) I'm not sure the origin of the code. But I have heard others use the code more often than it should be, and often against female attorneys who have the audacity to zealously represent their clients' interests (i.e., does the exact same thing that male attorneys do on a daily basis).
I need a greeting for scumbag.
Someone can urgently make Behar a greeting?
Men get called cocks, but haven't been picked up as clients by lawyers to extort corporations.
Yet.
And so not much happens. Women may go get a lawyer if they overhear that word at work, though.
1960s feminists resisted much of this, because government was defining the male-to-female relationship at work as male-to-child.
They didn't last long against their own party, whose primary client is suing lawyers. So they had to go. Some groveled. Some took the hand of fellow feminists who refused to stop railing on societies and religions that oppressed women, and went rogue.
Never heard of this phrase. Closest I ever heard was Popeye's friend, who said, "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
I am with you, guess we are both too old.
I dunno. I'm not exactly ancient, I'm 54, and I have to admit I've never heard this particular euphemism.
I'd never heard it either. My first reaction was, "It's a take-off on the John Landis line from all/most of his movies, "See you next Wednesday."
Not like it hasn’t been done before.
MALVOLIO: By my life, this is my lady’s hand! These be her very c’s, her u’s, and her t’s, and thus she makes her great p’s
— William Shakespeare, Twelfth Night, Act II, Scene 5.
Why did he admit having this meaning in mind?
Because he is a moo run?
Why am I not surprised that a blog full of libertarian and/or reactionary keyboard warriors isn't entirely up to speed on the latest hip lingo?
(I'm only kidding. The phrase is ancient. The Urban Dictionary has examples going back to 2005.)
2005 is "ancient?"
At my age 2005 is otherwise know as "like yesterday".
"hip lingo"?
When was the last time anyone heard that in conversation?
Swoosh...
I'm glad I never knew the meaning. Until now the most imaginative use of that word I've heard was Roger Stone's political action committee against Hillary Clinton which he named Citizens United Not Timid. (ho ho, ha ha, an example of Republican humor)
It wasn't all that long ago that I had to sit and listen at lunch to older attorneys in my (all-male) firm refer to a judge as "a fat stupid c**t" and to another lawyer as "a f**king sl*t"). And these were guys defending the Catholic Church.
When I became a lawyer at age 36 I had to adjust downward my expectations of the people I worked with. Behavior that in my previous haunts would have been unacceptably juvenile, homophobic, misogynist or racist was an accepted norm and, while not buying into it, I had to get used to it.
The Court orally granted Defendant MTS's motion for nonsuit?
When does a defendant move for a nonsuit? Was there a counterclaim?
It's essentially a form of a motion for a directed verdict; it's generally made at the end of the plaintiff's case.
Wait, he admitted it?
What is wrong with people? You are unprofessional, have no respect for the dignity of the court, and enjoy taunting your female colleagues with vulgar acronyms — but affecting wide-eyed innocence, that is over the line?
It's funny. No one objected at the NMR physics convention where Professor John Waugh (of MIT) first presented the new technique invented in his lab known as Proton-Enhanced Nuclear Induction Spectroscopy.
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/ja00772a071
Wow, 1972. That's about 30 years before a business named Pen Island decided to start a website....
Lawyers also hadn't realized the target rich environment for lawsuits, yet.
Remember the guy cancelled for the party shirt with women in bikinis on it? That wasn't needed for actual psychological damage reasons. It was needed to build background cachet that supports massive psychological damage exaggerations for massive lawsuits.
Somewhat related, I hear in class that the acronym “LASER” (light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation) was more accurately described as “light oscillation”, but they went with amplification instead of oscillation because physicists didn’t want to say they worked with “LOSER”s
Yeah, that's a total-bullshit just-so story. The word "laser" was directly derived from the name of the years-earlier invention "maser" (microwave amplification by stimulated emission of radiation). So the "A" in "laser" had already been chosen long before for a reason other than avoiding the word "loser".
I once ran out of gas on the MIT campus and Professor John Waugh pushed my car off to the shoulder. I asked if he'd like to make a gas run and he said he had to teach.
“I hope this doesn't sound unctuous“ was the hint.
My (liberal) British friends use this word when their guard is down, but maintain it's not seen as an "egregious and offensive insult" in their homeland.
That's the exact opposite of a claim someone else made above about the English. Granted, "British" and "English" are overlapping but not synonymous sets, but I can't see some monstrous differences in the non-overlapping moon slices.
And so I sit here with imperfect knowledge.
Well, about everything, not just that.
Well...I've known and hung out with several Brits (specifically several English but also others) for quite a few years. I don't think the person above is correct. Although, one thing that may partly explain it, it's been described to me that England is so . . . provincial, that you have many different accents, customs, cuisines and local cultures. You can have two cities that are only 20 miles apart from each other, yet they have very distinct accents that someone from the area can distinguish easily, because they've all lived there for many generations and generally don't venture outside of their locale.
Also they use it in a very non-gender specific way, seems like it typically ends up being a guy who is charged with being a c***.
Ricky Gervais seems to be fond of using the word in this way.
Also see: https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=897444367121184
There are subtle but specific differences between calling a man a "cunt" and calling him a "prick." The type of behavior that would earn a man the "cunt" label is usually different from the kind of behavior that would earn him a "prick" label. Frank Burns from M*A*S*H, for example, would be a cunt because he is an obnoxious asshole in a non-manly way. Pricks, who express their assholishness in more traditionally masculine ways, are too numerous to bother mentioning.
I wonder; if defense council had claimed that plaintiff’s counsel had “done it clearly knowledgeably,” would they be sanctioned as well?
What does the Bar of California ordinarily do when a member unnecessarily uses a rude word in court?
… And so our language becomes an increment coarser, literally more obscene.
Not if the judge can help it.
In re People v. Arno footnote 2; I have a correspondent that proudly uses “autoputzer” and vehemently denies its idiomatic roots.
Demote the lawyer down to bathroom attendant.
(Thought I hate to insult bathroom attendants by linking them to this guy.)
He is gonna be crucified. Seeing that the next court day was a Tuesday, he should have not admitted it was deliberate. His admission demonstrates his attitude that this is not a big deal. Anything less than reporting him to the bar would have made the judge a target.