Today in Supreme Court History: August 1, 1942

8/1/1942: Military commissions conclude for eight nazi saboteurs. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of these trials in Ex Parte Quirin.

The Stone Court (1942)

Comments

[Dan Schiavetta]

American Mfrs. Mut. Ins. Co. v. American Broadcasting-Paramount Theatres, Inc., 87 S.Ct. 1 (decided August 1, 1966): Harlan stayed state court judgment, affirmed by New York's highest court, due to argument that contract at issue violated antitrust laws, even though no showing of prejudice from having to pay the judgment and irrelevant that petitioner had not sought cert from the New York court given "substantial federal question" (in fact cert was later denied, 385 U.S. 931, 1966, and stay automatically terminated) (at issue was whether agreement to sponsor network news program involved illegal "tying" prohibited by Sherman Act)

Holtzman v. Schlesinger, 414 U.S. 1304 (decided August 1, 1973): Marshall denies stay, which has the effect of allowing continued military operations in Cambodia; suit had been brought by Congresswoman Elizabeth Holtzman on basis of Congressional prohibition of such operations (BTW, she is now running again for Congress, at age 80); Marshall's opinion instructively reviews standards for granting a stay and how they might apply to this "sui generis" situation; he decides that the question should be decided by the full Court.
Note: three days later another application was made, to Douglas, who stayed Cambodia operations; later that day Marshall un-did the stay again, with all the other Justices agreeing with him except Douglas; the Second Circuit heard the full appeal and dismissed suit on August 8 on grounds that issue was political and therefore non-justiciable; cert denied in April 1974

[DaivdBehar]

Military Commissions should be convened. The lawyer traitors hobbling our warriors, making our military woke and pussified should be arrested, tried, and immediately executed. They are servants of the interests of the Chinese Commie Party.

[DaivdBehar]

These internal lawyer traitors have done a million times more damage to our nation than the Nazi saboteurs. They must be executed.

[DaivdBehar]

They killed El Zawahari. What about the owner of his house? The official who authorized that? The short sellers of airline shares on 9/11? They remain immunized by the scumbag lawyer profession in Washington DC. So much for the Taliban promise to not shelter terrorists.

[DaivdBehar]

I am with Saddam on this subject. When you have a person, you have a problem. When you do not have a person, your problem is solved. Why take a chance?

[John F. Carr]

According to a Wikipedia editor, "Justice Douglas met with the Congresswoman’s ACLU lawyers at his home in Goose Prairie, Washington and promised them a hearing the next day. On Friday, August 3, 1973, Justice Douglas held a hearing in the Yakima federal courthouse, where he dismissed the Government’s argument that he was causing a 'constitutional confrontation' by saying, 'we live in a world of confrontations. That’s what the whole system is about.' That night, Justice Douglas ordered the military to stop bombing, reasoning 'denial of the application before me would catapult our airmen as well as Cambodian peasants into the death zone.'"

This was before I was politically aware. I did follow later arguments about the meaning of the War Powers Act, which was passed soon after. The executive would routinely declare the Act unconstitutional, not binding, or not relevant to the situation at hand. Nobody wanted a test case. World War 3 would likely be resolved before the deadline for Congressional approval expired.

[Dan Schiavetta]

What was different with Holtzman was that she could point to acts of Congress that had specifically prohibited what Nixon was doing.

[John F. Carr]

According to Wikipedia the law prohibiting bombing of Cambodia did not go into effect until August 15, two weeks later.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schlesinger_v._Holtzman

[Dan Schiavetta]

Ok thanks

I was going on personal memory. I was in high school at the time.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

lol wow you're old.

[Dan Schiavetta]

I'll have you know I dated a white girl as recently as 1984!

[The Margrave of Azilia]

IIRC the Nazis really scraped the bottom of the barrel to find these would-be saboteurs, and one of them got cold feet and went to the FBI.

America lucked out.

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

You contradict yourself. If the Nazis had to scrape the bottom of the barrel, then there was no real danger. That one of them turned everybody in also shows Nazi incompetence.

What good luck was there?

There was bad luck: J. Edgar Hoover. A smart operator would have turned them into double agents.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Don't take my word for it:

https://kansaspress.ku.edu/978-0-7006-1238-3.html

[Á àß äẞç ãþÇđ âÞ¢Đæ ǎB€Ðëf ảhf]

What's that got to do with your words? I said "You contradict yourself", nothing about what actually happened.

[The Margrave of Azilia]

Is this site always so much fun?

[John F. Carr]

The saboteurs at their best would have done as well as Doolittle's squadron. A propaganda victory with little military or economic effect.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

I like how one Nazi fled to a bunch of other Nazis. Irony.

[Dan Schiavetta]

See my comment from yesterday.

[Frank Drackman]

And all 8 Nazis Executed August 8, 1 week after sentencing, no years and years of appeals, why can't they do this with KSM??? just sits down at Gitmo contributing to "Global Warming" (AKA "Summer")

Frank

[Bill Poser]

I have never understood why Dasch and Burger, who immediately turned themselves in, were prosecuted.

[John F. Carr]

It was wartime and emotions were raging.

The Russian soldier sentenced to life in prison for murder in the suburbs of Kiev has had his sentence reduced to 15 years, which is much closer to what I thought he deserved.

[bernard11]

Why do you think so?

IIRC it was a plain cold-blooded murder.

[John F. Carr]

A soldier was given a direct order to do something soldiers ordinarily do under circumstances where there could have been a threat (even though there wasn't). Shooting a guy on the street in a war zone is different from rape or executing prisoners.

I may disagree with the principle of American law that duress does not excuse or mitigate first degree murder.

[Hugo S. Cunningham]

SCotUS was right to preserve secrecy of that proceeding, to prevent Nazi Germany from learning (1a) how inept US security services were, and especially (1b) who betrayed the mission. Otherwise, training for future spies might have included a film of the family members of the turncoat choking slowly to death on piano wire.
(2) But secret trials should remain secret, rather than being made into silent pantomime films.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Have the US security services ever been good at what they do outside of Hollywood movies and spying on Americans?

[AmosArch]

If only Roosevelt was as tough on all the Soviet spies running rampant in his administration as he was on the German spies who defected and helped America.

[F.D. Wolf]

On July 29, in a 5-4 decision, the Supreme Court of Canada held that reneging on a promise to use a condom during sex could constitute sexual assault.

https://www.scc-csc.ca/case-dossier/cb/2022/39287-eng.aspx

[ducksalad]

Reasonable decision. As long as it holds true for both parties and for every form of contraceptive.

[F.D. Wolf]

Like a woman lying about being on the pill? Yeah, I wouldn't bet on it.

I do not believe the ruling is reasonable. If the Parliament wants to make it a crime, it can explicitly say so with legislation. It is not for courts to shoehorn new crimes into old statutes.

If consent can be "conditional", then why not expand it to conditions such as a promise of marriage or a promise of money, for that matter?

[ducksalad]

We can distinguish intentional fraud from mere human failure to live up to promises that were sincere-ish when they were made.

[AmosArch]

yeah like all marriages are entered into with honest intentions. Nah, the unspoken distinction is laws can be expanded in ways to penalize men but not women.

[Sarcastr0]

Women are always entrapping men into marriage, the beasts!

Go watch more Mannosphere YouTube videos.

[John F. Carr]

I would call it simple assault.

[F.D. Wolf]

We can indeed. But can judges in this Brave New World? I guess we'll see.

I will confess I have not read the full decision, but intend to, so I may have to modify my thoughts on this case.

[F.D. Wolf]

Oops, obviously meant this as a reply to ducksalad's comment of 8:07 PM.

[Krayt]

Wow! In lieu of any real postings, suddenly Josh's series has gotten very popular!

It's the Thursday Open thread!

I wonder if this is an addict detection experiment.

[DaivdBehar]

Queenie. Love your comment, bruh. Deep.

[DaivdBehar]

Cool comment, bruh. Really intelligent.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

As far as you know, did anyone at the FBI or DOJ do anything illegal towards President Trump? While he was a candidate or in office?

[Mr. Bumble]

So that's why inflation is "transitory" and recessions don't exist anymore and you can spend money you don't have to fight inflation and, and and...

[Mr. Bumble]

Twitter is calling.

[DaivdBehar]

Bummie. Put me on Mute User, bruh.

[DaivdBehar]

Pretextual fake investigations are the theft of tax payer funds for partisan political purposes. They are like taking a federal pen home, and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Every partisan from Pelosi to the FBI clerks recording procedures is stealing funds, and all must go to federal prison.

[David Nieporent]

As far as we know, only one illegal act was committed by anyone at DOJ, which was Clinesmith's alteration of an email, and that was not towards Trump, but towards Carter Page.

[Mr. Bumble]

...and you are free to do likewise.

[DaivdBehar]

Love you, bruh. I do not want to miss a word of your great comments.

[DaivdBehar]

Where you live, bruh? Queenie, I am so worried about you.

[DaivdBehar]

Anyone know how to start a group on Twitter? I want to start 3 groups.

[DaivdBehar]

Eugene should become a follower of at least one of them.

[DaivdBehar]

Does Flag Comment do anything here? On Twitter I am reporting 20 leftists a day. Each is being investigated.

[DaivdBehar]

Slippery slope goes off the cliff.

https://www.westernjournal.com/video-captures-cops-arresting-man-social-media-post-caused-anxiety-someone-else/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=CTBreaking&utm_campaign=breaking&utm_content=conservative-tribune&ats_es=731571b3134386edfd354e86a103b590

All of youse are under arrest. My treatment here has been very upsetting.

[DaivdBehar]

None of these mean spirited, hurtful Tweets is being removed. Do you know why? Because Twitter is a left wing, propoganda outlet, biased, and the servant of the Chinese Commie Party. I tweeted Twitter should be seized in civil forfeiture.

[DaivdBehar]

Cool comment, Bruh.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Speaking of cults, can you remember the exact day when you began to believe a man can become a real, authentic woman just by the power of thought alone?

I'm sure it was in the '20's, so it should be easy to recall.

[John F. Carr]

During WW2 it was thought that terror bombing, as it was sometimes called, was an effective way to destroy enemy morale. Many now disagree. It is hard to tell whether they disagree because it did not work, or because acts contrary to modern morals must be ineffective.

[rsteinmetz]

Will all of the bombing that took place in the 20th century, I'm not aware of any bombing campaign that destroyed morale.

[Hugo S. Cunningham]

The 2004 Madrid train bombings 3 days before Spain's national elections helped secure victory for the side willing to appease the terrorists. But I would agree that is unusual.

[ducksalad]

August 1945?

[Armchair Lawyer]

As an aside on bombing campaigns and morale....it heavily depends.

One of the most effective bombing campaigns in history was the US 1991 invasion of Iraq (ie Gulf War 1). That had the effect of decimating Iraqi morale.

On the other end of the spectrum is something like Pearl Harbor, which had the reverse of the intended effect on American morale.

With any bombing campaign, the question in terms of morale has to be...
1. Can it be repeated, anywhere, anytime, at will?
2. Can you as a nation, strike back?

If the answer to 1 and 2 is Yes and No respectively...bombing can be quite effective at destroying morale.

[Mr. Bumble]

Which of course was a predicate to spy on the Trump campaign.

[DaivdBehar]

David is a rent seeking, toxic lawyer. This will go over his head. The use of tax funds for party attack is fraudulent. If an agent accesses a database to learn about his date with a girl, he goes to jail. Why is Pelosi not in jail for 2 costly and disruptive impeachments. David's unawareness is convenient.

[Mr. Bumble]

Yes, thanks in great part to that renowned military expert Uncle Walter.

[bernard11]

Fuck you.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

" Patton was right, we fought on the wrong side in Europe. "

That comment probably won't bother Prof. Volokh, who originally wasn't sure which side he preferred with respect to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

The disaffectedness is strong in these clingers.

[Noscitur a sociis]

...and that's the last comment of yours I'll be reading.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

lol at all this outrageous outrage!

[Jason Cavanaugh]

You're a prime example of why abortion should be legal.

[Hugo S. Cunningham]

At the time, we thought it was the A-bombs, and Hirohito mentioned the A-bombs in his surrender speech. Since then, however, more scholarship has pointed at the massive Soviet invasion of Manchuria (and also Sakhalin) on Aug 8. Japanese rulers had pinned their hopes on Soviet mediation of a tolerable peace settlement; suddenly instead they faced a prospect of Soviet occupation (via Sakhalin and Hokkaido).

[David Nieporent]

"Of course." Except, "of course," that doesn’t make any sense, since Page wasn't working on the Trump campaign.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

When was it? When did you believe a man who lived his entire life as a man could suddenly wish upon a star and *poof* turn himself into a real authentic woman?

Do you think the sudden onset of sincerely believing that could indicate someone's mind might be a little too malleable by that person's mindmasters?

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Except, "of course", you're misinformed and Carter Page absolutely was a Trump campaign advisor.

[Mr. Bumble]

Think you have it backward. Had we not entered WWI, WWII probably would not have happened.

[bernard11]

Patton's military skills tell us nothing about the validity of his political views.

The Nazis had some pretty good generals themselves. That doesn't mean we should respect their opinions on other matters, especially political issues.

[David Nieporent]

Patton, who knew way more about the subject of warfighting than most people here, had some conclusions that bother some.

Yes, like the conclusion that:

“Harrison and his ilk believe that the Displaced Person is a human being, which he is not, and this applies particularly to Jews who are lower than animals." and "If they [the Jewish DPs] were not kept under guard they would not stay in the camps, would spread over the country like locusts, and would eventually have to be rounded up after quite a few of them had been shot and quite a few Germans murdered and pillaged."

Or maybe it was when he said that Jews were "lost to all decency." Or when he "marveled [about Jewish DPs] that beings alleged to be made in the form of God can look the way they do or act the way they act." (emphasis added.)

Or that trying Nazi war criminals was "semitic."

Which of those "conclusions" don't bother you?

[DaivdBehar]

Cool comment,bruh. Are you going to follow me on Twitter? Dude it's so lonely there.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

The FBI thought he was. That's why they started to illegally spy on him.

[David Nieporent]

The FBI thought he was. That's why they started to illegally spy on him.

Well, no. They started to spy on him legally. It was only for the third renewal — the fourth warrant — that Clinesmith lied. (Whether the warrant would've been granted if Clinesmith hadn't lied has never been established, but let's assume for the sake of argument that it wouldn't have been.)

[BravoCharlieDelta]

So you genuinely believe that the first three warrants were totally legal and it was just the fourth one that was sus?

It wasn’t until the fourth one that the FBI learned Carter Page was actually an asset?

And they had no clue prior? And once they found out that he couldn’t possibly be a Russian agent that it was out of good intent that they lied to keep spying?

Why do you believe that nonsense?

[BravoCharlieDelta]

Do you think people who lick the boots of those in power are ever ashamed of what they do?

[David Nieporent]

Except, of course, he wasn't. He had been… at one point. That ended before the very first FISA warrant against him was even granted, let alone the fourth, which was the one in respect to which Clinesmith altered the email.

[BravoCharlieDelta]

The only thing the Holohoax did was enable the Jews, perpetual aggressors, to flip the script and become untouchable perma-victims free forever from any criticism.

That’s the worst thing to come out of that mess

[Estragon]

“Holohoax”

Just….. wow. Does the proprietor ever reflect on what has become of the commentariat here? Stunning

[Estragon]

Say more! What was the hoax?

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

Prof. Volokh has cultivated precisely the class of commenters (and contributors) he desires, in my judgment.

Disaffected, roundly bigoted, right-wing gun nuts, largely.

[DaivdBehar]

Armie. Any nation can reach the pligarchy. It should become the military dostrine of the US to slash the military budget. Then kill all the leadership and the oligarchs of an adversary nation and their entire families. That is pretty demoralizing.

[DaivdBehar]

The US should hold Putin's girlfriend and children as hostage. Start sendind ears if he does not release our hostages. That is preferable to subsidizing the blowing up of thousands of working people who just want to go home.

[Krayt]

This was the theory my HS teacher preferred, that it was to end the war quickly before the west had to split Japan in half, too.

[Malvolio]

more scholarship has pointed at the massive Soviet invasion of Manchuria

Mistaken scholarship.

Hirohito lived for 44 more years after giving that speech. He never brought up his supposed vital omission.

suddenly instead they faced a prospect of Soviet occupation (via Sakhalin and Hokkaido).

As a general rule, island nations do not fear invasion by countries without a navy. In the particular instance, Japanese experiences with wars against the Russians had been entirely positive.

[Michael P]

Why does a Clinton-appointed judge think Stefan Halpern lied to the FBI to support Spygate? How far back, and how broadly, did that lying go? Who put him up to it?

What was the FBI's "insurance plan" against Trump being elected?

There are more crimes here than just forging one email.