The Volokh Conspiracy
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Hawaii AG Instructs Chiefs of Police to Broadly Grant Concealed Carry Licenses, but not Open Carry
From an opinion issued Thursday:
Following Bruen, the language in Hawaiʻi Revised Statutes ("HRS") § 134-9 requiring that an applicant "[i]n an exceptional case … show[] reason to fear injury to the applicantʻs person or property" in order to obtain a concealed carry license should no longer be enforced…. Assuming this approach to concealed carry licenses, Bruen does not require any change to the requirements established under HRS § 134-9 to obtain an unconcealed carry license….
For example, the chiefs of police can and should still require that applicants for a concealed carry license "[b]e qualified to use the firearm in a safe manner," "[n]ot be prohibited under section 134-7 from the ownership or possession of a firearm," and "[n]ot have been adjudged insane or not appear to be mentally deranged." The chiefs of police should also still require that applicants for a concealed carry license "[a]ppear to be a suitable person to be so licensed." See Bruen (discussing a "suitable person" requirement which "precludes permits only to those 'individuals whose conduct has shown them to be lacking the essential character o[r] temperament necessary to be entrusted with a weapon'" … [and] recognizing that states may impose requirements "designed to ensure only that those bearing arms in the jurisdiction are … 'law-abiding, responsible citizens'").
Being "a suitable person" means that the applicant does not exhibit specific and articulable indicia that the applicant poses a heightened risk to public safety. The chiefs of police may consider the following factors when determining whether an applicant displays specific and articulable indicia that the applicant poses a heightened risk to public safety, such that the applicant is not "a suitable person to be so licensed":
- Whether the applicant has been involved in recent incidents of alleged domestic violence;
- Whether the applicant has been involved in recent incidents of careless handling or storage of a firearm;
- Whether the applicant has been involved in recent incidents of alcohol or drug abuse;
- Whether the applicant has been involved in other recent violent conduct….
Although Bruen recognized a right to public carry under the U.S. Constitution, it did not recognize a specific right to either concealed or unconcealed carry. See Bruen ("[T]he history reveals a consensus that States could not ban public carry altogether."); id. ("[I]n the century leading up to the Second Amendment and in the first decade after its adoption, there is no historical basis for concluding that the pre-existing right enshrined in the Second Amendment permitted broad prohibitions on all forms of public carry." (emphasis added)); id. ("[I]t was considered beyond the constitutional pale in antebellum America to altogether prohibit public carry."). This leaves states with discretion to place good cause restrictions on one form of carry, where similar restrictions are not placed on the other form of carry.
Although, as noted above, good cause should no longer be required for concealed carry licenses, the good cause requirement in HRS § 134-9(a) for unconcealed carry—that an applicant must "sufficiently indicate[]" an "urgency" or "need" to carry a firearm and that the applicant is "engaged in the protection of life and property"—should still be applied as to unconcealed carry applications. {The standards that the chiefs of police should apply in considering applications for unconcealed carry licenses are discussed in Attorney General Opinion No. 18-1.}
Thanks to Alan Beck for the pointer.
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Bruen makes clear a state can choose between concealed and unconcealed, and does not have to allow both.
But a State has to allow one or the other.
More grave dancing by Eugene.
Ease up there, Chicken Little.
He's not Chicken Little.
Chicken Little was half right.
The sky is falling, it's always falling. If it wasn't falling, it would drift off into space and then we'd have a real problem. 🙂
Liberal states have violated our rights for decades. I think grave dancing is not only appropriate, but required.
Just make sure it's not a sacred cemetery. But if it's a Christian one, rip it up for a road or airport expansion, after dancing.
Slow down there Dances with Fleas.
It is useful to demonstrate to NY a graceful way to concede you were not conforming to the constitution and come into conformance.
More grave dancing by Eugene.
Which apparently is a trigger for more stupidity by you.
You're a freaking moron.
He should have a tag for that "Liberations Pounce".
Open carry is a bit intimidating to the audience, and seldom the audience which needs intimidating.
I'm a fan of concealed carry.
I am as well. We dont need people going "Karen" on us at every turn.
Here in gun crazy Texas open carry has been legal for going on a year now and I have yet to see anyone openly carrying. Like absolutely zero. Surprising to me, but that’s how it’s been.
I've seen a few, but very few. And nobody cared...at least not enough to make a fuss about it.
BTW, it's constitutional carry that has been the law in TX for nearly a year (as of this upcoming September). Open carry has been legal since 2016. And campus carry became legal in 2016 as well. 6 years later we're still waiting for the OK Corral shootouts at frat parties we were assured would be the inevitable result.
I did it in Austin just to annoy liberals, but otherwise I agree.
OTOH, it does further the aims of the gun controllers to have carry restricted to concealed carry; They can continue to have media outlets only portray open carry by police and criminals, so that on a subliminal basis a lot of people will assume only police and criminals go armed.
That's a dynamic we need to break sooner or later.
Nah. People just assume you are an off duty cop.
The *real* harassment will be if the cops charge someone with printing.
They probably will, it's a common tactic for harassing lawful concealed carry.
We spend half the year in rural MT, where open carry is non controversial, but probably not as common as in N ID next door, and Phoenix, where it is rare where we live. I open carry I both, in PHX for coyotes, and in MT for bears, when walking our little dog. As of a couple days ago I have suspended openly carrying on my walks in MT, as the bears appear to have moved to higher elevations for a bit (seem to have traded them for moose, which is weird).
Got my first comment this last week, by a neighbor. We are both involved in the neighborhood HOA, and went down to her house at about 11 pm. It was almost pitch black, with no city lights lighting up the background, and a bit spooky. Told her that I was doing it because neighbors had seen a bear on their porch recently. She was good for it. In PHX, I had two comments last year, both positive. One by a dog walker, who thought it a good idea. And the other was by a guy wearing a MAGA hat several doors down. After the last election, that many in Phoenix believe was stolen by the Democrats, you see more indication of Trump support than when he was in office, and open carry identifies you as being in that group.
Before we moved across town a couple years ago, in PHX, we were living in a neighborhood where we had police choppers lighting up backyards at night a lot. Late on Fri and Sat nights, at the local Walmart/McDonalds, I would see small groups of gangbangers on occasion. I would concealed carry at nights there, and intentionally “print” for them, letting them know that I was armed and vigilant. Their interest quickly turned elsewhere. Of course, both states are now Constitutional Carry (except, weirdly, for state universities in MT), so it’s not an either/or like HI.
" I would concealed carry at nights there, and intentionally “print” for them,"
Why not just open carry lol. what is the point of printing. or better yet, open carry a decoy and conceal the real thing.
" that many in Phoenix believe was stolen by the Democrats "
Where many = delusional, obsolete, bigoted, superstitious losers (who can't be replaced fast enough).
Great legal analysis, bruh. You are another Volokh.
I offer my belated condolences to you on the recent loss of one of your Church's sacred sites.
https://www.georgiaguidestones.org/
We were there just a few weeks ago, as we were passing right by on a family trip. The inscription was about the sort of lame new age pablum you'd expect, harmless so long as nobody was stupid enough to try to put it into effect.
But it wasn't harming anybody, and it's a darned shame somebody took it into their head to get rid of it. An inside job, I suspect; The local government were in a remarkable hurry to finish the work of the bomber before anybody could raise money to repair it, and it took some serious explosives to do the original damage.
Without knowing anymore, one would think it is tit for tat teardown of statues and whatnot, sacred to people on both sides.
Where I disagree with Trump isn't that there are quality people on both sides. It's that there are rotten people on both sides.
He said both, if you look back at his remarks.
Hawaii seems like an American jurisdiction uniquely able to restrict gun access as a practical matter, and thus an instructive practical experiment (since it has decided to adopt maximalist restrictions).
Anyone care to opine on the results?
And where are aspiring Hawaiian gun owners to arm themselves?
Republicans will not be found suitable. Violent leftists and criminals will be.
Anyone care to opine on the results?
That depends. Are you referring to results that are adjusted after controlling for the many other variables that impact violent crime rates (population density, poverty rates, cultural demographics, etc, etc.)? Or are you just hoping to get away with a correlation = causation argument?
I am genuinely curious as to 1. whether Hawaii's gun bans have signicantly reduced the amount of guns available to criminals and 2. whether that has led to significantly different levels of gun violence and/or other types of crime.
I realize I could look it up myself, but it seems a lot easier to have people spout off their opinions here and argue about it.
I am genuinely curious
That claim is not consistent with...
I realize I could look it up myself, but it seems a lot easier to have people spout off their opinions here and argue about it.
If you want to really know something, a bunch of opinions and arguments aren't the way to go about accomplishing that. From what I can tell of the available body of research on the subject, there is no compelling evidence one way or the other with regard to Hawaii's gun control laws having a meaningful impact on violent crime rates. And on that note...
whether that has led to significantly different levels of gun violence
That is utterly meaningless metric in terms of determining whether the useful goal of reducing/preventing violence in general has been accomplished. If criminal homicides involving firearms are reduced, but total criminal homicides remain the same (or increase) due to weapon substitution then have you really accomplished anything useful?
I agree that reducing gun violence is not enough to show that the restrictions are a good idea, for the reasons you state. I disagree that it's meaningless: if the restrictions can't even do that much, in Hawaii of all places, then they shouldn't even be part of the conversation elsewhere.
I disagree that it's meaningless: if the restrictions can't even do that much, in Hawaii of all places, then they shouldn't even be part of the conversation elsewhere.
Sorry, I thought it obvious from the entirety of the comment that by "meaningless" I was referring to any conclusions one might try to draw from just a reduction in "gun violence", not the case where there was no such reduction (or even an increase).
Well, interestingly, they're 13th from the bottom in terms of homicide in general, but only 4th from the bottom in terms of firearms deaths. So, casually, it would appear that their laws may have had some influence on the means people use to commit homicide, but maybe not whether they commit it.
Complicating this analysis is that the chart contrasts overall homicide and firearms "deaths", but of course, not all firearms deaths are homicides, so if not quite apples and oranges, maybe apples and quince. Another reference states that 66% of firearms deaths in Hawaii are suicides, and only 23% homicides.
This suggests that, yeah, the firearms homicide rate in Hawaii is very low indeed, since most of those firearms deaths would be suicides, not homicides.
The firearms death rates in NY and CT are about the same as Hawaii's, and their firearms death rates are also comparable, though, so I don't think you can say that isolation making it easy for Hawaii to enforce their extraordinarily strict gun laws is the factor driving this. Looking at the states with lower total homicide rates, there's no obvious link to gun ownership rates.
Rather, Hawaii seems not to be a state where suicide is very popular, and they have succeeded in reducing the percentage of suicides using guns. (It's 88% in NY.) OTOH, dead is dead, so why care about that?
That's not a bad idea, we could use Hawaii as a lab control for measuring crime rates in a rigid gun control state, and pick another state with constitutional carry as the opposite. I'd say Maine is the best choice. Since the overall population is about the same, and the Black population % is also same.
Maine has the lowest Murder and Non-Negligent crime rate among the 50 states, Hawaii is 20th.
The conclusion of my study is that even rigid gun control has no salutatory effect on crime rates, and indeed could even result in excess deaths, although I concede their could be other factors that could contribute to Hawaii's relatively higher gun death rate.
What's the general definition of concealed carry (asking for general since I'm sure states have some specific differences)?
Does it simply mean "hidden from sight," so a t-shirt draped over a holster is OK?
Or does it mean "hidden so a person cannot detect the weapon?"
You (sometimes) can tell when a person is carrying simply by the bulge in their shirt or jacket.
And how does a concealed carry requirement affect rifles?!?
Here in South Carolina the law just says, "in a manner that is hidden from public view in normal wear of clothing".
Peace officers are trained for signs of concealed carry. One can even see such signs in a person's gait.
No doubt that criminals have picked up on those signs as well.
FIFY.
Fair enough.
When I started to carry I remembered something that my firearms instructor said. "If you are going to carry, then carry." What he meant was to carry a weapon enough that you get used to it. You're not touching it, adjusting it's position or adjusting the holster. You know what you are going to do in certain situations like using a public restroom.
They also know how to give their drug sniffing dog non-verbal cues on when to alert when they want the dog to give them probable cause to search someone.
Clever Hans could not be reached for comment.
The definition of course varies by State. In People v. Hernandez-Garcia, a 2005 opinion of the Michigan Court of Appeals, the Court said:
"Concealment, under MCL 750.227(2), "occurs when the pistol is not discernible by the ordinary observation of persons casually observing the person carrying it." People v. Kincade, 61 Mich.App. 498, 504, 233 N.W.2d 54 (1975). "Absolute invisibility of a weapon is not indispensable to concealment; the weapon need not be totally concealed." Id. at 502, 233 N.W.2d 54."
In Michigan, then, a slight "bulge in their shirt or jacket" would likely render it concealed since most observers are unlikely to have experience or training in detecting it. In sum, it is advisable to err on the side of caution and obtain a CPL in Michigan, the requirements here not being too onerous.
As a supplement to my statement that "the requirements here not being too onerous", I should have added "except possibly for the attendant fees".
The application fee is $100.00, plus the cost of the required firearms training course. The CPL renewal fee is $115.00. While this not be onerous for many, or possibly even most, persons, it can certainly be for low-income applicants - persons who may be more in need of a CPL.
Yeah, leftists have no issue with these fees for gun permits, but god forbid someone should have to get a $5 non-voter ID to vote.
Or pay $75 for an abortifacient.
So just an accusation of "domestic violence" is enough to deny a permit? Then you have the "mental health professionals" who will state that wanting to carry a firearm is a "mental disorder". So what is the definition of "drug or alcohol abuse"? Those goalposts move all of the time. Define "careless handling or storage of a fire arm"? Who gets to determine that? The same thing applies to "violent conduct". Everything mentioned here is arbitrary and subject to interpretation. When you have the 'by any means necessary" crowd in charge, you can guarantee that these will be interpreted in the way that denies a permit.
Also, let's get a Hawaiian definition of 'recent.'
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/11/opinions/guns-bill-congress-white-house-biden-watts/index.html
"The gun industry has played a major role in this crisis by marketing weapons of war to the masses and avoiding any accountability for the results. And less than three weeks ago, the US Supreme Court issued a dangerous decision — out of line with the majority of public opinion — making it easier to carry loaded weapons in public in New York state, including the kinds of weapons used to slaughter innocent bystanders in Highland Park."
These people are unrepentant liars.
Yeah, one honestly has to sort out the wheat from the chaff to assess whether a "news article" or Op-Ed is neutral. CNN certainly doesn't qualify on this score.
Unless one is of the stature of Goliath, or better yet Paul Bunyan, it's kinda' hard to conceal an "assault weapon".
"Is that a rifle with a shoulder thing that goes 'up' in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"
Yup, she also lied about the majority of public opinion. If that was really the case, 44 states wouldn't have been "shall issue" prior to Bruen.