The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Canadian Professor Suspended for Comments Criticizing COVID Vaccination of Children
The Canadian Press (Jacob Serebrin) reported June 30; Université Laval is a prominent Canadian public research university, and apparently "the oldest centre of higher education in Canada":
Patrick Provost, a professor at Université Laval who studies micro RNA — small molecules that help regulate genes — was suspended for eight weeks without pay on June 14 for comments he made last December at a conference.
Provost said he believes the risks of COVID-19 vaccination in children outweigh the benefits because of the potential side-effects from mRNA vaccines, which use messenger RNA created in a lab to teach cells how to make a protein.
"I was just doing what I was hired to do," he said in an interview Wednesday. "I had some concerns about something, I searched the literature and I prepared a speech, delivered it to the public. Being censored for doing what I've been trained to do — and hired to do — well, it's hard to believe." …
A university committee consisting of a lawyer and two experts concluded that his comments were biased and that he didn't analyze his data rigorously or present his information objectively, Provost said….
According to local news reports, Provost is one of two professors suspended by Université Laval for anti-vaccine comments. The university declined to comment on either suspension, while the union said it is not aware of the second case.
Prof. Douglas Farrow (McGill) criticizes this in some detail. Thanks to Gail Heriot, writing at InstaPundit, for the pointer.
Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.
Please
to post comments
I get that this OP is talking about the fundamental wrongness of suspending someone for what they are saying on a matter of vital local and national and international importance. And this looks like a classic example of punishing someone for--after doing quite a bit of due diligence first--advocating an unpopular opinion.
It's probably worth pointing out that Canada (all all Commonwealth countries, I believe) have free speech protections . . . BUT, much less robust than here in the United States. While I think that Section 2 of the CCRF should have protected this guy's speech, I'm less confident than I'd be if it had happened in America.
Do you have an opinion as to whether or not you think his suspension was illegal? Or, are you merely highlighting the moral (and correct, IMO) stance that it's a bad idea to squelch speech like this--even if it's legal to do?
I'm sure he is just criticising the suspension on general principles, no one actually thinks people in Canada have rights any more.
Here. In the US. 3 Star Suspended for sarcasm about Jill Biden. At least she knows what a woman is, he said. Cancelled.
https://nypost.com/2022/07/09/three-star-general-gary-volesky-suspended-over-jill-biden-tweet/?lctg=607d90f2373dd11b6ec10b87
Welcome to Russia. Welcome to China, you vile, toxic, scumbag lawyers. All PC is case. All woke is case. For money.
Patrick Provost, in the Faculty of Medicine's department of microbiology, infectious diseases and immunology. An expert in the subject of controversy.
Forget the prof. Forget the general. Jefferson is being cancelled in his own house. I asked how Jefferson could afford such a self designed genius mansion. The one word reply from the tour guide, "Lawyer."
https://nypost.com/2022/07/09/monticello-draws-criticism-after-trashing-thomas-jefferson/?lctg=607d90f2373dd11b6ec10b87
Do the woke scumbags mention that all his slaves, including Sally Hemmings, her brother, and her children, were freed upon setting foot in France for his ambassadorship. Did they mention all chose to return to his US home after 5 years, and after getting all Frenchified over there?
There was a lawyer on the review committee. I want to know if he stood up for the rule of law or went along with the Chinese Commie quackery of the 2 scientists. All should lose their licenses if they have any. I need names.
"In the US. 3 Star Suspended for sarcasm about Jill Biden."
A retired 3-Star, who presumably has more 1A rights that an active duty General.
santamonica811: I don't know enough Canadian law to opine on the legal question, I'm afraid.
Eugene does not have to know the laws of Canada. There and in the USA, the law is feelings, biases, which side of the bed, and whether you had a sandwich before the decision or are hangry.
Nothing in the law has any validation save that given by men with guns. The lawyer believes that no reliability is needed. No validity is needed when you have men with guns. One result of this arrogance? Every self stated goal of every law subject is in utter failure. It's not 1275 AD anymore.
As study of "Effectiveness of BNT162b2 vaccine against SARS-CoV-2 infection and severe COVID-19 in children aged 5–11 years in Italy" by C. Sacco et al, just published in the Lancet (June 30, 2022) finds a very poor performance, "vaccine effectiveness in the fully vaccinated group was 29.4% (95% CI 28·5–30·2)"
Firing the professor is a gross injustice.
It would have been, maybe that's why they didn't fire him.
The linked article has a rather negative opinion of the mRNA vaccines:
which seems a bit excessive to me; I don't doubt the mainstream media and government have done their worst to downplay negative reactions, just as they have done their best to conflate deaths from/with COVID-19. But "negative territory" implies more deaths than saves from the vaccine, and I don't believe that.
I suppose my main objection to the vaccines is how temporary and specific they are. Polio, smallpox, tetanus, and other vaccines were/are universal and last for years. These COVID-19 vaccines seem even less effective than the yearly flu vaccine roulette.
AA - I concur with your assessment of the Actual science " - not the science of covid fear"
The vaccines are very ineffective after 6 months, very ineffective against the current strains of covid, and totally useless for children.
Children have almost zero risk of adverse consequences from covid, the vax impedes the development of full/broader immunity, effectively meaning that it is absolutely stupid to vax children.
The vaccines mitigated severity through Delta…unfortunately Republican governors let up a few months early and tens of thousands of Americans died needlessly. Bottom line—DeathSantis killed more Americans than Osama Bin Laden.
A ) Delta is no longer the dominant strain
B ) Children were never at serious risk of adverse consequences for any of the covid strains.
So what is your justification for vaxing kids - other than unsubstantiated paranoia?
I agree now it doesn’t make sense…but many older Americans died needlessly in 2021 when the vaccines clearly mitigated severity. The Democratic governors of red states did the best job because they had the lightest touch with respect to mask mandates…but the low information Trump voters in all states didn’t get vaccinated in high enough numbers. Although now that is a positive because natural immunity is superior to vaxxed immunity…it’s just in 2021 it was much more dangerous to acquire immunity naturally.
SC, lose your "party of death BS." it is just tiresome as well as worthless
No, I like it.
Party of death sounds cool.
“The vaccines mitigated severity through Delta…unfortunately Republican governors let up a few months early and tens of thousands of Americans died needlessly. Bottom line—DeathSantis killed more Americans than Osama Bin Laden.”
That latter is just silly. You appear to be trying to establish a meme in order to defeat DeSantis in 2024 or 2028. You seem to be imputing deaths to him by his refusal to require vaccinations. Except that the risk of COVID-19 is highly age and comorbidity dependent. The mandates don’t take that into account. A healthy 20 year old has a minuscule risk of dying from the virus, but the risk of dying from the vaccine is very non zero, with esp heart issues (apparently from their immune system attacking attacking vaccine mRNA generated spikes that have migrated there) that appear to be directly related to fitness levels. In short, super fit 20 year olds dropping over dead from the vaccines, when their chance of dying from the virus were negligible. The vaccines, through 2021, may have benefitted older and sicker portions of the population, but you cannot logically make a claim that mandating them for younger, healthier, demographics helped those demographics. Oh, and we also know now that mRNA vaccines actually negatively affect herd immunity, by reducing natural immunities for those vaccinated before catching the virus, allowing for repeated reinfections by the virus (through OAS).
You want blood on government hands - look to those governments still mandating vaccinations. Since Omicron, which means about the first of the year, there has been a genetic mismatch between the (Omicron) variants working their way through the population and the spike proteins generated by the mRNA vaccines being dispensed. The vaccines are training the immune systems of those vaccinated to recognize the wrong spike proteins. Spike proteins that their immune systems are not going to see, because they are obsolete. Obsolete because the virus mutated around the vaccines with Omicron, which being non sterilizing vaccines, was inevitable, given that this is a simple, quickly mutating, respiratory virus.
If you are so sold on the vaccines, please explain the immune system mechanisms being exploited in 2nd and subsequent shots. The first injection trains the immune system to detect the two ancestral variant spike proteins. After that? We know from the side effects that the immune systems recognize the spike proteins generated by the vaccines as pathogens, from the side effects. What we do know is that the immune system responses to 2nd, etc, shots are to the spike proteins generated by the vaccine, and not to the virus itself. That is esp true this year, since the ancestral spike proteins are no longer being encountered anywhere except in the vaccines. So, back to my question, what immune mechanisms are supposedly being exploited for these subsequent vaccinations?
"with esp heart issues (apparently from their immune system attacking attacking vaccine mRNA generated spikes that have migrated there)"
Proper procedure for vaccinating into solid tissue is to insert the needle, pull back on the plunger, and look to see if you draw blood.
If you do draw blood, you're in a vein or artery, and need to reposition the needle or else you'll inject the vaccine into the circulatory system.
These vaccines cause massive inflamation of the tissue they come in contact with, which is why you get a hot, swollen, painful lump at the injection site.
Now, imagine somebody screws up the injection, and that hot, swollen, painful lump is distributed through your circulatory system. Might cause heart issues, you think?
I have to say, it's been a long while since I've seen a vaccine administered using the proper technique. They just shove the needle in and inject. Just another way in which the everyday practice of medicine has declined.
No, they don't.
No, I didn't.
The vaccines suppress another feature of immunity, type 1 interferon. That is not a good idea if the benefit is marginal as it is in children.
David, Bro, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
And I'm on your side.
Frank
Children have almost zero risk of adverse consequences from covid...
Really, multisystem inflammatory syndrome isn't a recognized covid infection in children? You say this on the basis of your expertise in these matters?
Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome is rare. Is "rare" distinct from "almost zero"?
Do you have data on the incidence of MIS that suggests the risk is qualitatively higher than "almost zero"? Please cite some.
Is there an unbiased study on the incidence and severity of Covid adversity versus the incidence and severity of vaccine adversity? Please cite it.
Joe, using the word effective, begs for your definition of the word.
Something that does not stop the contraction, or spread of a virus, may be effective, but not within normally understood parameters.
It does seem that they are a temporary stopgap. But there is value in that. The concern now is that they are even less of a temporary stopgap effect against the latest variants, but probably still of some value.
All of the middling to good results (even if they are less now) are ruined by politics. But the media in general is reporting the decreased effectiveness against many of the BA strains. Extreme media uses that to boost the idea that they were ever any good, or even dangerous, and aren't interested in new more precisely targeted vaccines.
"probably still of some value" needs to be weighed against the risk of vaccine injury.
Censorship and the other various acts against inquiry by Covidians make it harder to separate facts versus orthodoxy versus conspiracy.
They are ineffective against (Omicron) BA variants, because the mRNA vaccines generate two ancestral variant spike proteins. The Omicron variant (naturally, and expectedly) mutated around the vaccines by expressing slightly different spike proteins. The vaccines train immune systems to recognize viral spike proteins as pathogens that they are never going to see. It’s called Vaccine Mismatch.
Thanks for the argument from ignorance and feelings to offset actual expertise and research.
Thanks for the fact-free and citation-free rebuttal.
Your ignorance and appeal from emotion was cite and that's really all you gave anyone to work from.
When Prof. Douglas Farrow uses language like "crumbling covid narrative" and "the covid vaccination experiment", before offering any explanation, it is clear that his critique is colored by his priors.
He is a prof of immunology. And you might be?
This Provost to whom I am referring. Who is Farrow?
He is linked to in the last sentence of this blog post. I read the whole post, and all of the links, before I made any comment.
Doug Heffernan
July.9.2022 at 3:42 pm
Flag Comment Mute User
When Prof. Douglas Farrow uses language like "crumbling covid narrative" and "the covid vaccination experiment", before offering any explanation,"
His assessment of the current knowledge about the effectiveness of covid vaccine and the effectiveness of vaccinating children is spot on.
Its disappointing how ill informed his critics are about covid vaccinations . Critics are still basing their knowledge of the vaccines based on knowledge that existed in june of 2021 instead of what is now known -
Doug,
I also was struck by "covid vaxx experiment." It immediately signaled to me that it was going to be a polemic, rather than an objective analysis. Nothing wrong with a polemic . . . but I generally find the use of misleading euphemisms off-putting, and it's my sense that their use makes it much less likely that the writer will actually change anyone's mind. If the goal is to energize people who already agree with you, then maybe it's a good editorial decision. If the goal is indeed to change minds, then IMO it's a dumb decision.
[Online nicknames are a particularly inescapable and unsuccessful annoyance: Amerikkka, Rethuglicans, DemocRats, DeathSantis, et al.]
DeathSantis killed more Americans than Osama Bin Laden so it fits!! He gave low information Trump voters the FREEDUMB to act like idiots. 😉
You do know there was this NY Governor by the name of "Cuomo" (Rhymes with "Huomo")
sent Covid infected Seasoned Citizens back, Back, BACK, BACK! to their Nursing Homes,
Fatalities Ensued,
Fortunately, the "Guv'Nor's" "Little Brother" got him in trouble, and he won't kill again (until those Idiot New Yawk'ers vote him back him, fine with me, every Electrical Vote NY loses is one DiSanto gets)
Frank
All states have terrible nursing home patient deaths because prior to the vaccines nothing could be done to stop the virus and being in a nursing home was the biggest risk factor…NY’s numbers aren’t any worse than any other states in light of NY having the most nursing home patients of any state including California and Texas.
more than Florida? don't think so. Check the expiration date on your Namenda
NY has a lot more nursing home patients than Florida—elderly don’t move to Florida to go into a nursing home!?!
Seasoned Citizens? Yum?
Look, I think Trump did the right thing with Operation Warp Speed, rolling out a vaccine in just months using technology that had never been used before for a vaccine, with accelerated trials, and an Emergency Use Authorization.
But it certainly was a massive "covid vaxx experiment." And the fact that they had no idea it could cause heart inflammation in young men until they started cropping up underscores that.
By that overbroad definition of experiment every drug rollout without 20 years of human trials is an experiment.
There’s a happy medium available between 20 years and three months.
They did what they had to do with the vaccines, which was good. But the absolute assurances they made were not helpful. For example, they flipped from pregnant women should be cautious about taking it to “take it or else” without any information as to the impact it may have had on pregnancy. Not a confidence booster.
And at this point the decision to fire oodles of health care workers who didn’t want the vax ended up being an awful mistake since it turned out that the vaccine didn’t prevent transmission anyway. A lot of workers vanished for no purpose. Now every hospital in the country is severely short staffed and we’re all suffering the consequence of that decision.
Was the actual number of health care workers that high?
But Kaz had a pretty unrealistic comment defending a propagandistic bit of rhetoric. That is my main point,
Yeah pretty high. Magnified by coworkers that drifted out over time due to disgust with how their fellows were treated.
Myself or a close relative have had four ER followed by admission incidents this year and hospitals are so short of beds due to staffing issues that going to the ER turns into an 18 - 24 wait in what seems like a third world hellhole.
Kaz is directionally correct, if maybe quite a bit overstated so I see what you’re saying too. The authorities were in a tough spot and had to make hard decisions, but we plebes were also in a spot with tough choices too and a little more honesty and flexibility would have gone a long way.
And of course it would have helped a ton if the damn thing hadn’t been so heavily politicized, but asking our betters to put aside politics for the common good is asking way too much these days.
It was an experiment, did you see the study cited by Don Nico above? Vaccines are 29% effective for children 5-11?
It's an ongoing experiment.
You aren't going to tell me that RNA vaccines are wildly successful, and they are going to be the vaccine technology of choice in the future are you?
No, they are not a complete failure, but the covid vaxx experiment has shown they aren't all they were cracked up to be, and if they can't be improved, or proved more effective with other viruses they will be abandoned.
How many boosters do you have? And how often should you get them? Or does it do any good after 3 or 4?
They don't know because the experiment is ongoing.
Ramblings from the web - - - - -
The first effective polio vaccine was developed in 1952 by Jonas Salk . . . which required years of subsequent testing.
Beginning 23 February 1954, the vaccine was tested at Arsenal Elementary School and the Watson Home for Children in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.
Salk's vaccine was then used in a test called the Francis Field Trial, led by Thomas Francis, the largest medical experiment in history at that time. The test began with about 4,000 children at Franklin Sherman Elementary School in McLean, Virginia, and eventually involved 1.8 million children, in 44 states from Maine to California.
The results of the field trial were announced 12 April 1955.
You can’t compare polio to a pandemic. An extra year or two to test the vaccine would have resulted in a lot more dead people.
Probably not, and esp not in the case of younger and healthier demographics. Best thing for them, and for any possible herd immunity, would have been natural immunity, untainted by previous vaccinations (due to OAS).
Nothing like locking up most of the population of the free world in the Hope their model doesn't come to pass to make one think they're not running the largest human subject experiment history. Masks, who needs 100 years of experiments, the politicians have to do something. Liberty, you can have that back when you're dead.
Eh, academics of all stripes tend to write like that in their non-academic writing about theories they disagree with. I've heard and read similar treatments from physicists about things that would seem utterly innocuous to most of us.
It was an experiment. No one had ever taken a genetic sequence from decoding the genetic sequence from a virus, found the sequences generating specific parts of the virus (two spike proteins here), replaced Uridines (U) in the genetic sequence with N1-Methylpseudouridine (m1Ψ) (presumably for ease of manufacturing, transportation, and storage), slapped on 5’ caps, 3’ tails, and corresponding non coding sequences, shoved the constructed mRNA into a capsid, and manufactured billions of units in short order. Oh, and then vaccinated people with those billions of dosages without adequate testing. It’s the testing that takes so long, and that is with standard vaccines, where all of the biological mechanisms are well known. Here we have a novel type of vaccine, never used before on a human population, and the testing was cut short, and the test groups unblinded, before long term effects could be fully tested, in order to get something, anything, to the public.
- Dean Stacey, Canadian Human Rights Commissioner (2009)
In 2021 it was more like FREEDUMB—our guy lost and so now we are going to throw a tantrum!! I don’t want your stoopid vaccine…even though it was Trump’s most successful program!?!
I got all 3 (or should I have 5, 6, 7? by now) we just don't like Peoples telling us we have to get it, Our Bodies/Our Choice, hey, just thought of that, oughta copyright it!!
Wealthy Republicans cut in line to get the vaccines…it’s the people that comment on Gateway Pundit and InstaPundit and Breitfart that didn’t get the vaccines.
You mean AOC? https://www.the-sun.com/news/4428479/aoc-covid-booster-miami-florida/
Bee-otch cut in line, and still got the 'Vid,
Frank
You don't have to be Canadian to feel this way. Here's an American example (rather un-American, I'd say):
https://academic.udayton.edu/race/06hrights/waronterrorism/racial02.htm
This guy spoke at a science-disdaining conference about something reportedly beyond his area of expertise and without doing the requisite professional homework. He probably also misappropriated (and diminished) his employer's franchise while doing so.
Disaffected culture war casualties will label him a hero.
Mainstream America will expect to find he is an antisocial loser with poor judgment at best, or an anti-vaccine right-wing nut perhaps more likely.
Use up your "Bitter/Klinger" quota for the week Reverend Jerry Sandusky??
Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Great Britain today show why we were wise to declare our independence when we did.
I think Australia is getting a bad rap, a few dozen police riots and concentration camps for those that may have been exposed to covid doesn't a police state make.
Ok, it's at least in the neighborhood.
Lol what hellscapes.
I love this country, but pretending we have a monopoly on True Freedom is laughable.
You're full of shit (as usual). The rest of the world calls our protections for speech and the right to bear arms "extreme."
A ) Delta is no longer the dominant strain
B ) Children were never at serious risk of adverse consequences for any of the covid strains.
So what is your justification for vaxing kids - other than unsubstantiated paranoia?
Follow the money.
You understate the case. Omicron (dominant from the first of the year, and near exclusive since January) expresses different spike proteins than the ancestral variant spike proteins generated by the vaccines. Vaccine Mismatch. And the chances of kids dying from the virus itself, absent well known comorbidities (like significant obesity), are down in the drowning in mop bucket territory.
On this forum which tends to attract people from the legal profession, we are treated to the legalistic view of what may have occurred. Fine and dandy!
But nobody is discussing the fact that “science” has lost its integrity as a result of its total politicization, probably dating from decades ago but readily apparent in discussions over environmental and climate issues.
The ability for science professionals to be able to freely discuss matters is essential to the process. And sure, if you are mistreated you can take your case to court. But that is not the issue. The issue is that anyone who questions a certain orthodoxy will remain silent rather than be subjected to an ordeal where they might lose their jobs or face financial consequences and then, be forced to take legal action in an attempt to recover what they lost and if lucky, punish the wrongdoer.
BFD. You never get hired in your field. You receive no recommendation from your employer, etc. Who in their right might wants to deal with any of that? So the alternative is silence. And that is precisely what the objective of places like this university is.
This has nothing to do with the law or violations of some set of rules of the university. This is about insuring nobody else speaks out on this same matter.
whenever I'm dealing with Warmistas I always like to point out that it's Pal Review and their vested interests that are in control of the "crisis" narrative. Always spit on credentialism and appeals to authority.
Where is Gaslghtr0 telling us to tRuST tHe ScIEnCe?
Ha ha good one. I call him Contraro
Luv to have a fan.
Criticizing a Vaccine with (minimal) adverse reactions for a disease (in Children) with virtually no "Bad Outcomes" KILL HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!
Frank
Canadia and Canadians like to think the y are the nicest, most tolerant people but criticize them or their country and they generally lose their composure.
There is a definate passisive-agressive streak in their national character.
Used to know this "Flea" (Surgeon slang for Internists, you know, Flea's being the last ones to leave a dying animal) from Canada, constantly bragging about Canada's great Healthcare System, Low Crime Rate (due to Low Afro-Amurican Rate, funny, he wouldn't brag about that one)
Of course he moved to Alabama, because he was going broke working for Canadian pay,
Frank
Maybe the vaccine affects Canadians differently than it affects Americans?
I'm waiting for (yet another) completely ineffectual letter from the academic freedom organizations ... followed by a solicitation for financial support.
God forbid, if academic freedom were successfully protected, there would be no more need for these organizations. Thank you university bureaucrats!
There's lots of Vaxxies in this thread getting really upset that they won't be getting any refunds on the immune system destroying poison they let themselves be experimented on with.
I hope they all feel the fear and panic as their lives slip away, cause that means the jab is working
Oh, dear.
That this blog is the best right-wing "academics" and their fans can muster in modern America should be greatly comforting to those who reject conservatives' stale, bigoted, reality-rejecting thinking.
This blog should also be instructive to law deans -- at legitimate, strong law schools, at least -- thinking about hiring another movement conservative or two. If you want your school to be associated with a blog that publishes vile racial slurs more often than monthly, or with the level of "scholarly" work that Josh Blackman and Randy Barnett present daily at this blog, or if you enjoy issuing apologies for your faculty members' conduct -- go ahead, hire another movement conservative from the Federalist Society!
I do not contend that law schools that have already erred in this regard should ditch the clingers on their faculties. Instead, I hope Hillsdale starts a law school and the Conspirators are drawn home to Jesus, Trump, and the Heritage-John Birch-Federalist-Klan community, where they belong.