The Volokh Conspiracy
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Bruen Broke The Deal
A guest post from Prof. Robert Leider (GMU)
Shortly after Bruen was decided, I wrote a post about the limits imposed by the decision. Even sooner, New York convened a special legislative session to revamp its gun laws. The new law, predictably, pushes the limits of Bruen. The New York Times offers this summary:
The state's new gun law bars the carrying of handguns in many public settings such as subways and buses, parks, hospitals, stadiums and day cares. Guns will be off-limits on private property unless the property owner indicates that he or she expressly allows them. At the last minute, lawmakers added Times Square to the list of restricted sites.
The law also requires permit applicants to undergo 16 hours of training on the handling of guns and two hours of firing range training, as well as an in-person interview and a written exam. Applicants will also be subject to the scrutiny of local officials, who will retain some discretion in the permitting process.
But more troubling, Bruen in many regards worsens the rights of gun owners in New York. Professor Robert Leider (GMU) makes this point in a guest post:
Many gun owners in California and New York will not be celebrating the Supreme Court's decision in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. In that case, the Supreme Court held that the Second Amendment protects a right to bear arms for self-defense outside the home. Before Bruen, six states required individuals to show "good cause" (usually some special danger) to get a license to carry a gun in public. Three of these states permitted local officials to determine what constituted good cause. In these states, many gun owners could easily obtain licenses because they lived in conservative areas where local officials recognized "self-defense" as good cause. But because licenses were difficult to obtain in many other areas of the state, these states did not heavily restrict where licensed gun owners could carry their weapons. Bruen shattered that political compromise. After Bruen, all state licensing authorities will have to issue licenses to carry firearms to anyone regardless of whether they are in danger. Predictably, liberal states are responding by heavily restricting the places where licensed firearm owners may carry their weapons. Ironically, gun owners in these states will now find that although they may obtain licenses more easily, their licenses are virtually worthless to carry firearms for self-defense, and Bruen's effects will be felt hardest by those who already held unrestricted licenses.
With respect to gun licensing, judges and commentators frequently distinguish between "shall issue" and "may issue" states. Although various definitions exist, the real difference between "shall" and "may issue" jurisdictions involves whether an applicant for a license to carry a gun has to demonstrate that he faces special danger. In "shall issue" jurisdictions, there is no requirement to show a specialized need for a license. This distinguishes them from their "may issue" counterparts, which require applicants to show "proper cause," "good cause," "good reason to fear injury to person or property," or some related formulation. (For simplicity, I'll just use New York's formulation of "proper cause.") The precise quantity of danger an applicant must face varies considerably among jurisdictions; "may issue" licensing is a broad spectrum of licensing policies. Some jurisdictions, including Boston and Maryland, issue many licenses to business owners at risk of robbery. Others, such as Hawaii, New Jersey, and San Francisco, hardly issue any licenses at all, essentially requiring police-documented death threats—and making it difficult to obtain licenses even then.
By the time Bruen was decided, there were effectively six "may issue" states: California, Hawaii, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and New York. Three of these jurisdictions—California, Massachusetts, and New York— delegated the issuance of licenses to local officials using local policies.
Before Bruen, the definition of "good cause" in these three states was at the discretion of local licensing authorities. In conservative jurisdictions, licensing officials routinely accepted that self-defense constituted "proper cause" to issue a license. In liberal jurisdictions, however, licensing officials required substantially more reason, requiring anything from running a cash business to death threats to justify the license.
The result was an uneasy compromise. Residents in conservative jurisdictions could obtain licenses to carry guns effectively on a shall-issue basis, while licenses in liberal areas were extremely difficult to obtain. Liberal state legislatures fought to preserve their good-cause licensing requirement. But they also looked the other way when conservative jurisdictions widely issued licenses, even though those licenses were unrestricted and usually valid statewide. In online gun owner forums, one can find color-coded maps divided into green, yellow, and red jurisdictions ("green" for shall issue jurisdictions, "yellow" for moderately difficult may issue jurisdictions, and "red" for jurisdictions in which it was virtually impossible to get a license). Where feasible, gun owners used these maps to move to jurisdictions with friendlier licensing officials. And for gun owners, there were some advantages to being in a "may issue" state. Compared with traditional "shall issue" states (especially in the South) "may issue" states had very few places in which a licensed person could not legally carry a firearm.
Bruen has destroyed that compromise. After Bruen, all jurisdictions that require licenses to carry firearms must do so on a "shall issue" basis. And the result is predictable: legislatures in "may issue" states are scrambling to ban guns from as many locations as possible, including government buildings, stadiums, theaters, parks, financial institutions, public transportation, and restaurants. Most devastatingly for gun owners, New York is trying to ban firearms on all private property at which the property owner does not post a sign welcoming firearms. New York Governor Kathy Hochul, when asked where permit holders would be allowed to carry weapons, candidly replied, "Probably some streets."
Gun owners have always had the most rights in places where the gun issue has flown under the radar. While legislatures in California, Massachusetts, and New York have passed strict gun laws, these legislatures have also placed few restrictions upon licensed gun owners. With licenses difficult to obtain, these states did not give much consideration to where licensees could carry weapons. Similarly, many private property owners are loathe to post signs banning gun carry; but they are going to be equally unwilling to post signs affirmatively welcoming gun owners.
If gun owners think the courts will bail them out, they are mistaken. Courts probably will not force states to have a particular default rule for private property owners (allowing guns without a sign versus prohibiting guns without a sign). Moreover, there is some precedent for what these states are proposing to do. For many years, Alabama had a law prohibiting carrying pistols on premises not one's own, which the Supreme Court of Alabama upheld against a challenge that it violated the right to bear arms.
So the irony is that Bruen will be a pyrrhic victory for the gun owners Bruen was supposed to help the most. In may issue states, those who already have unrestricted licenses will find themselves subject to far more restrictive carry laws than before Bruen was decided. These gun owners might no longer have to fear that a licensing official will arbitrarily decide one day that they no longer have sufficient reason to carry a firearm in public. But, as Gov. Hochul said, their new right to bear arms may be little more than the right to carry weapons on just "some streets."
I agree with Rob. Do not expect the Second Circuit to suddenly become enamored with the Second Amendment because Justice Thomas said so. The courts will resist (yes, I said it) Bruen the same way they resisted Heller. I hope the Supreme Court will resolve circuit splits in less than a decade.
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Learn from the "Million Pussy Hat March" on D.C.,
Million peoples of all Races, Colors, Creeds(what's exactly a "Creed" anyway) all 5? 6? 7? Sexes march on Albany, AR-15's in Hand(Prefer the AK, it's the 55 Chevy of Semiautomatics, although in a Survival Scenario, like the M1A or the HK91(at least while I'm starving I can enjoy the classic looks)
What's Governor "Only here because Cuomo couldn't keep his dick in his pants" Hochul (sounds like my old smokers cough(much better now) "Hochul!!' "Hochul!")
gonna do, arrest, a million peoples?
Who, after seeing what happened on 1-6 might shoot first??
Not advocating that, I believe in the old fashioned way, Elections, Civil War, then Execute the Enemy Leaders,
just kidding, be happy to see them just ,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyVuYAHiZb8
"Who, after seeing what happened on 1-6 might shoot first??"
It's not who shoots first, Douche Bag, it's who shoots last.
Duh, why it might be different next time. Not, (NOT, not, "not" "NOT', nichts , niemals, ) that I'm promoting that behavior, but defenses react to offenses,
Frank "Bang!" (made you look)
Jesus, Mengele, put it down. Whether it's a glass or a needle, just put it down.
Pure Jay-Hay Oh-Two Inhalational (OK in CO at 6K MSL, and the local Wacky-Tabacky might be a factor)
Not calculating NNT's (most bullshit statistic ever, even more than "WAR") ERA's or Slugging Percentages, )
and stoned to the Be-Jesus belt I make more sense than Sleepy(Sleepy? can we say "Demented"? it's what any of you would call Uncle Louie/Ned/Max with the same behavior, but it's "That's Joe! he makes inappropriate remarks to prepubescent girls! He commands quadraplegics to stand! He compliments Barak Amurica on his Hygiene!)
Frank
"and stoned to the Be-Jesus belt I make more sense than Sleepy"
No, no you don't. Even Trump makes more sense than you do.
"Shoots Last"
Yeah, Ashli Babbit didn't get a chance to "Shoot Last" because she had that foolish belief that she had the right to or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Garan-damn-tee You if it had been "Felicia D'andre'Jackson" shot by "Sean "Bubba" Callahan" for protesting that Drug Addict/Wife Beater Floyd Georges, you'd have the same Clown Show (more like "Song of the "New" South" with Uncle Remus Chairing(He calls CT "Uncle Tom" I call Uncle Remus "Uncle Remus") going on, throwing the Shooter into Super Max right up there with the Unabomber....
Frank
Mengele, you are an embarrassment to drunks and junkies everywhere. There is video clearly showing that Babbit was not engaged in peaceful anything when she was shot. She was part of an insurrectionist mob trying to force it's way into a hall of the Capitol which was being defended by armed officers. She was shot while trying to climb through a window and past a barricade. Had she not been shot and had the rioters gained access past the barricade, many more lives would have been lost.
Babbitt was an unarmed vet, mother and a patriot. A diverse Democrat thug summarily executed her during a pro-democracy protest.
If the life of career criminal and fentanyl overdoser, George Floyd is worth $27 million, the life of Babbitt must be worth $100 million. These damages should come from the assets of Pelosi and of the Democrat Party on whose behalf this executioner was acting.
This is from junior high school. Name calling is not persuasive, and it has the opposite effect that you intend.
"Babbitt was an unarmed vet, mother and a patriot."
That she was unarmed, a vet, and a mother, have nothing do with with anything. At the time she was shot she was not a patriot. she was engaged in a riot and insurrection.
"A diverse Democrat thug summarily executed her during a pro-democracy protest."
She was shot while engaged in a riot specifically designed to interrupt a democratic process and in pursuit of legislators to physically harm. The race/ethnicity of the officer who shot her is of no significance. It is revealing, though, that you dopes keep bringing it up.
"Name calling is not persuasive, and it has the opposite effect that you intend."
Clueless, as usual.
Stella - Keep making it up.
Just wait until the next Congress in January when all of the video is released.
I am relieved to see that Josh Blackman is pessimistic about the effects of Bruen, as that suggests reason to be optimistic instead.
lol, indeed. Blackman is mostly an overly dramatic contrarian indicator.
Yes, gun owners in anti-gun states have lost the shield of "Dhimmitude". But it was already clear that it was never going to last; They weren't being left alone, they were just being left for later.
I would say, from the way the Court remanded all those cases seeking certiorari that the Court has had done with hiding from 2nd amendment cases for a while, at least while it retains the current 6 member majority. An awful lot is hanging on Clarence Thomas' health for the next couple of years.
It might not be out of order to offer the Bruen majority extra private security, they've painted targets on their backs, and that's no exaggeration.
What do you mean by the second paragraph in respect of remanding? I'm not following.
SCOTUS Vacates 4 Decisions Upholding Gun Control Laws Whose Constitutionality Now Looks Doubtful
"The Supreme Court yesterday vacated four appeals court decisions upholding gun control laws, remanding the cases for reconsideration in light of its decision last week in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. The remanded cases involve Hawaii's restrictions on carrying guns for self-defense, California's 10-round magazine limit, a similar New Jersey law, and Maryland's "assault weapon" ban."
They could have just left it at Bruen, and refused all these requests for stays. Instead they treated them as applications for certiorari, vacated the lower court decisions being appealed, and remanded for new decisions consistent with Bruen.
That's a pretty aggressive stance there, the Court isn't hiding from these cases anymore.
Yeah, it's almost like there's a Second Amendment or something.
I guess we'll see if the lower courts flout SCOTUS again, like they have the past 10 years.
I suppose it is just coincidence that once Barret was comfortably in place that the court placed on its docket for this year every conservative wish list that had been avoided for decades.
If you can make an argument that that isn't rank, premeditated conservative activism, Id love to hear it.
It was premeditated liberal judicial activism that kept these cases off the docket. At least the fear of it; The liberals weren't going to take those cases, and the conservatives wouldn't take them until Barrett for fear Roberts would flip.
They were all cases the Court shouldn't have been avoiding.
lol, there was never a deal. Nor was there ever a compromise. There are barely any carry permits issued in MD.
Bruen is pretty powerful. They essentially incorporate 1st amendment prior restraint doctrine into the opinion.
Yeah, NY will resist, and possibly the 2nd will go along. The result is not what the anti-gunners think. You don't reinforce a house of cards by stacking more on top of it.
The authorities cited in Bruen related to licensing are very clear (Shuttlesworth v. City of Birmingham, 394 U.S. 147 (1969)): A law subjecting the right in publicly owned places to the prior restraint of a license, without narrow, objective, and definite standards is unconstitutional, and a person faced with such a law may ignore it and exercise his rights. Cantwell v. Connecticut, 310 U. S. 296, 305 (1940) stands for the same proposition.
The six-member majority all-but dared states to play games with licensing. The consequences for NY are catastrophic: De facto constitutional carry. Yes, 6 members of the court signed on to a footnote citing authorities both of which stand for the proposition that laws imposing an unconstitutional prior restrain can be ignored.
I carried in MD all the time, never got caught, it's why it's called "Concealed" carry.
Montgomery County wasn't really needed (still carried, it's a habit) Prince Georges, OTOH, scurried like Bluto in "Animal House" from the Hospital Parking Lot at 5am with my Beretta M9(If it's good enough for Uncle Sam, it's good enough for me) in my Anesthesia "Fag Bag"(the Manly Gas-Passers didn't carry glorified purses)
Frank "Forearmed is Forewarned, or something"
It depends on the jurisdiction, in California a carry permit issued in Plumas County was good in Los Angeles County. And of course now the CA legislature is going to try to screw that up. Most rural counties in CA were open carry as well, that may also change.
You rely on “the right of the people” but in every case you object when “the people” through their elected representatives try to speak out.
OK, that's just plain stupid. I mean, really, couldn't you come up with something less lame?
A right of the people is always an individual right to be free from "the people's" dictates expressed through government. Those representatives aren't "speaking out", they're issuing orders, only they're doing it in an area they're constitutionally barred from ordering people about.
You might as well have spouted the same line about freedom of speech, to justify censorship, or freedom of religion, to justify a state church.
Yup. By the same logic, searches and seizures are "reasonable" if the police or "the people" give a reason they want to search or take stuff. And double jeopardy only attaches when the punishment would be loss of "life or limb". And one could be compelled to testify against oneself -- as long as there is "due process of law". And so on and so forth.
The right of the people to tyrannically rule a minority, lmao. Yes, that is democracy. Sign me up for burning the witches.
Witches were hung. Heretics were burned.
Ashli Babbit was murdered, "Heretics" are being "Burned" before a Congressional Clown Court (I'd say "Kangaroo" but would be insulting a more intelligent creature)
as the Great Casey T. Koufax said,
"Paybacks are a cold dish, best enjoyed in 4K"
Frank
"Ashli Babbit was murdered"
You are raising DumbFuckery to a new level.
Umm, have to defer to your "level"
Code of the District of Columbia
§ 22–2101. Murder in the first degree — Purposeful killing; killing while perpetrating certain crimes.
Whoever, being of sound memory and discretion, kills another purposely, either of deliberate and premeditated malice or by means of poison, or in perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate an offense punishable by imprisonment in the penitentiary, or without purpose to do so kills another in perpetrating or in attempting to perpetrate any arson, as defined in § 22-301 or § 22-302, first degree sexual abuse, first degree child sexual abuse, first degree cruelty to children, mayhem, robbery, or kidnaping, or in perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate any housebreaking while armed with or using a dangerous weapon, or in perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate a felony involving a controlled substance, is guilty of murder in the first degree. For purposes of imprisonment following revocation of release authorized by § 24-403.01(b)(7), murder in the first degree is a Class A felony.
Among the infinitely many things you do not understand, Mengele, is the law about murder and self defense.
The officer who shot Ashli Babbitt did not have a remotely valid claim to self-defense. Or defense of others.
Remove the plank from your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
It amuses me that the pro-Babbitts always refrain from mentioning the footage showing that, 20ft behind the door she was breaking through, were live congressmen running for their lives. That door was the last defense
You're a moron.
For saying that Babbit was not murdered? The Babbit shooting was investigated:
" The investigation revealed no evidence to establish beyond a reasonable doubt that the officer willfully committed a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 242. Specifically, the investigation revealed no evidence to establish that, at the time the officer fired a single shot at Ms. Babbitt, the officer did not reasonably believe that it was necessary to do so in self-defense or in defense of the Members of Congress and others evacuating the House Chamber."
It was investigated by the same Biden deep state corrupt DOJ that wanted the result it came to.
Jesus Christ, you stupid fuckwit, the shooting was caught on video. One need not rely on the report, just look at the video. It's obviously not murder.
Yes. She was clearly not a threat to anyone, and the semi-retarded black affirmative action hire cop shot her for absolutely no reason.
Have you watched the video? He sounds like an inarticulate mongrel.
"He sounds like an inarticulate mongrel."
He's more coherent than you are.
Fortunately, I wasn't cursed with African genetics.
"Fortunately, I wasn't cursed with African genetics."
We're all "cursed" with African genetics, Dumbfuck.
Ok, I guess the Fairy Fucking God Mother (HT GYSGT Hartman, USMC) shot her.
Frank
Knock, knock.
Who's there?
Not Ashli Babbitt. Not anymore.
Carry on, clingers. Well, except for Ashli Babbitt.
Yes, Arthur I know you're on the side of the semi-literate African who shot her without justification. Why wouldn't you be?
She was not shot without justification. She was shot while climbing through a window which would have given her, and her fellow violent rioters, access to an area where she could have caused much more serious damage to people and property. When she started to climb through that window, it became inevitible that potentially deady force would have to be used to stop the rioters.
"Inevitable" only because the police would have chosen to gun down more unarmed protesters.
According to the other officers present, she was shot with inadequate justification.
OTOH, I'd personally have expected to have been shot in those circumstances, which is why I don't, oh, break and enter buildings with cops telling me to stop, or things of that nature.
Personally, I'm counting it as suicide by cop, even if it was suicide by trigger happy cop.
Brett, yes, she was stupid for being there. But that doesn't change the fact that the shooting was ruled justified because it was a black shooting a white. If a white cop had shot a "mostly peaceful" protestor who was say, torching a Wendy's, he would have been indicted.
Dog, stop being a denier. Deniers do not argue in good faith. There is only one thing to do with deniers.
Have you bothered to find out what New York gun owners think?
Conveniently ignoring that elected representatives in 44 states have rejected "may issue". When the majority agrees with the Constitution, perhaps it's time to find a new slogan to trample on individual rights.
That's one of the stupider comments you've ever made.
I don't think we would let state legislators decide just what the right of the people to petition their goverment is, or decide just what protection the 4th amendment provides to vehicle searches.
We have constitutional rights to put some things beyond the discretion of the petty asshats that would like to run our lives for us.
And what do actual New York gun owners think?
I think it's rather obvious, no?
I'm sure it is like any diverse group of people: some agree, some disagree, some don't care.
I'm not as convinced as the professor that the courts will uphold a default rule of "no guns." The entire purpose of that is to have a "chilling effect" on the right. If a business really wanted to prohibit them, it would say so. But many businesses that are supportive or indifferent won't bother to put up a "guns allowed" sign, as that would draw the ire of leftist agitators.
This crap won't stop until a judge declares that their statutes need his approval to take effect. That is, a preclearance provision.
I don't think judges can actually impose preclearance like that, or at least not on their own. Even when Congress did it to state legislatures as 14th (Or was it 15th?) amendment enabling legislation, it was kind of dubious, and the Supreme court finally got tired of it.
I'm not an expert, but I thought that a judge can demand that all further cases come before him, and effectively do it that way?
So, you have a license to carry and come upon private property which you wish to enter. Why is it that you seem to think that the default should be that you can carry onto that property without the owner's permission? Why is it incumbent upon the owner to take action rather than upon you to acquire permission?
Because the state is trying to imprison you for it. That means that the default should not be that you're committing a felony if the owner doesn't do something.
What other circumstance is there a felony for exercising a Constitutional right unless the owner tells you you can?
"Because the state is trying to imprison you for it. That means that the default should not be that you're committing a felony if the owner doesn't do something."
That's just plain dumb assed nonsense. What's wrong with you?
You looking in the mirror?
No.
You're an idiot. What other Constitutional right is a felony if the owner of private property doesn't put up a sign telling you you can exercise it in there?
Wearing a turban? Having come from a protest? Being in a gay "marriage?" Having invoked one's right against self-incrimination earlier that day?
In NY, criminal trespass in the first degree.
But, that's beside the point. Why do you think you, or anyone else, has the right to carry on private property without the owner's consent?
The same reason I have the right to wear dotted underwear without his consent.
You know full well that no business is going to post "guns allowed" signs. And most people aren't either at their residents. Meaning that the effect is to make guns a felony nearly everywhere. You know this, and they know this. You're a bunch of dishonest fucking lying slavers.
Do I need the owners consent to breathe? Speak? take a leak in his Petunias?? Again, carry concealed (skillfully) OK, admit, I can't beat a metal detector, and nobody knows, no harm/no foul
Frank
"You're a bunch of dishonest fucking lying slavers."
For denying you the ability to carry weapons upon private propert ywithout the owner's consent? I'm a "slaver" for supporting private property rights? You're a babbling, incoherent monkey's ass.
We're talking about the default being illegal, you fucking moron.
"We're talking about the default being illegal"
Yes, we are. And, you are claiming that the default should be that property owners implicitly grant consent for a bunch of illiterate inbred wankers* (and some, I assume, are good people) to carry onto their property. If you want to carry onto someone's property, it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that you be required to get consent. Of course you don't like that because you know that most property owners would rather not have a bunch of goobers running around their property with guns.
*We should hope that most illiterate inbred wankers will be filtered out by the permitting requirements, but some will, no doubt, slip through.
What other things should a person need to get affirmative consent for? Color of their underwear? Shoe arches? Notebooks in their backpacks? You're a fucking moron.
Why is it that you leftists are all about private property rights up until a baker doesn't want to make a cake for you and your butt pirate friends?
"Why is it that you leftists are all about private property rights up until a baker doesn't want to make a cake for you and your butt pirate friends?"
Why is it that many of you right wing cranks, crackpots, criminals, cretins, clowns, and craven keyboard warriors always bring up the perceived oppression of bigoted anti-socialist pseudo Christian bakers and your irrerepressible cumpolsion to effetely insult those whose sex lives you find distasteful?
And, just for you: I do have gay friends and I consider that denying them rights secured by public accommodation laws is good reason for punishing the malefactors. If you want to bake cakes and sell them in commerce, you need to obey anti-discrimination laws. If you think that there is some right to discriminate based on race or religion or sex or any other prohibited reason, well, it's a right not worth preserving.
I've got a right to freedom of speech; Could the government make it a felony for me to open my yap in somebody's house if they haven't put up a "yes, you can talk" sign? Maybe a felony to bless the meal if they haven't put up a "you can pray in this house" sign? I better not jot down a note at my friend's house if there's no "writing permitted" sign?
You're an idiot. You're an idiot who's still fixated on treating owning and carrying a gun as a privilege, not a right, and one to be revoked wherever possible.
Yeah, if my neighbor affirmatively says, "Don't enter this house armed!", it would be trespassing if I didn't comply. The same would be true if they said I couldn't enter the house if I was exercising any civil liberty. That's property rights, which you ordinarily shit on.
But the sign? It's got one purpose, and one purpose only: You're demanding that pro-gun people auto-dox, for your convenience. So people who think like you know which front windows to throw bricks through.
That's what is going on here.
Brett, two purposes. The other purpose is to effectively limit carrying everywhere. If you live in New York City, you still can't carry except to go for a walk at night, because the subway is off limits.
The private property may be open to the public---bodega, big box home improvement store, diner, employment agency---that welcomes all who have money to spend, which means that someone hoping to rob customer of that money also can enter. The purpose of armed self-defense in public is heightened there, not reduced.
Which private property is likely licensed by the State to operate, and thus carries the State-imposed obligation to not discriminate against a host of protected classes of people. The State errs on the side of letting in members of the public that the owner might prefer to exclude, in the interest of preventing invidious discrimination against those protected classes.
The State forces property owners to admit people all the time, in the cases where concealed carry of a weapon would matter the most.
Perhaps "armed peaceable citizen" is the next protected class to be recognized as deserving legal protection against invidious discrimination.
Statists like to whine about the right of the majority as expressed through their elected representatives. 45-6 is a pretty impressive majority. The fact that a lot fewer states used to have shall carry, that it increased in the last 20 years, and has continued increasing just last year, is proof enough that statists aren't going to get their way on this any time soon.
Don't mourn, carry! (and coincidentally the armed robbery rate decreases, almost like when Sleepy voted for the law that actually made Criminals serve some decent time)
Frank "Don't do the crime unless you can do the time, and even if you do, Dexter will torture you to death"
Mengele, the confessed felon, says, "Don't do the crime unless you can do the time."
that's correct, if you have the time (Like "Reverend" ArthurKirklandAKAJerrySandusky) go for it,
Frank
Do you think that should apply to abortion doctors? Or gay men who were illegally sodomizing their "husbands" pre-Lawrence?
Why don't you ask Mengele? He's the one who said, "Don't do the crime unless you can do the time."
Umm, Jay-Hay had his own "Sanction" see Hudson, Rock. Abortion "Doctors"?? you reap what you sow (and I'm NOT, not, repeat not, nichts, niemals, promoting the murder of Abortion Doctors) They're a sorry lot, high rate of suicide (OK, because they're in constant fear of being murdered by someone related to their murders)
Frank
Just to add. You're a real fucking sweetheart.
Thanks but I'm married (to a woman, I'm pretty sure) , and don't love the Tube Steak
So you claim.
Just to point out to you -- you are replying to a post which was not directed towards you. I have no idea why you replied to it as if it were. Again, whether it's a glass or a needle, just put it down.
Did you not reply to a post which was not directed towards you? Why are you allowed to do so, but no one else?
Jesus, just follow the thread. All will be revealed if you just pull your head out of your ass.
You are the only one whose behavior is consistent with rectocranial inversion, dude.
Professor, the Alabama case you cited is from 1911. Seriously?
"the Alabama case you cited is from 1911."
What's the problem, is that too recent?
Dammit, I'm agreeing with you, when is "Thou shalt not kill" from??
and I try to be observant, but I'll "Covet my neighbors wife's ass like a Mofo"
Frank "Forgiven Daily"
Truly excellent news!
You're an idiot.
The previous status quo wasn't compromise, it was work arounds to circumvent (now officially ruled) unconstitutional restrictions on citizens rights.
It looks like the legislators in NY, CA, and other repressive states have abandoned legal review of their legislation. Many of their new restrictions directly violate Bruen as well as previous SCOTUS decisions.
So, basically, SCOTUS will have it all to do over again next term.
The future of the next few to several years keeps looking pretty unstable. A major armed uprising/conflict seems very likely because it is being planned & organized & financed. Several players, foreign & domestic, look to be involved. We'll see how the country as a whole thinks about guns & violence after that. Things that make perfect sense for small, homogeneous, low density human communities, are absurd in overpopulated multi-cultural situations. More people, more friction. Guns are tools to kill people. Machine guns just make it easier & more efficient. It always comes down to flag waving absolute ideology vs. actually thinking & trying to deal with the situations. And simplistic binary arguments are so much easier to understand & sell. You very vociferous public gun & second amendment advocates & the private militias dressed up playing soldier are not doing your cause many favors. You convince peaceful mild mannered folks that you are too irrational & uncompromising & dangerous to put up with.
"Bruen in many regards worsens the rights of gun owners in New York."
Bruen didn't do that. The NY legislature, hysterically responding to Bruen, did.
Bruen is the deal, and the states are supposed to be following it.
But if the situation unfolds as it has in the past, SCOTUS will make us all wait at least 20 years before they bother to hear an appeal of another gun case from CA, NY, HI, or anywhere else. And so those states will go on indefinitely, violating our rights with impunity, while the Justices play the fiddle and the country burns.
How about instead, right now, the Justices start jailing legislators in those three states who are publicly flouting Bruen for contempt of court?
It's pretty unlikely the Court is going to go into 2nd amendment hibernation for another decade. There were all those applications for stays of gun control laws, where they overturned the lower court rulings and remanded for action consistent with Bruen.
That's not the way the Court acts when they're hiding from an issue.
Previously nobody knew how a gun case was going to turn out. The left-wingers on the Court wouldn't grant cert for fear the Heller majority was intact, and the the conservatives wouldn't grant cert for fear somebody
Robertswould flip.With the addition of Barrett to the Court, the Heller majority can lose one squish and still prevail. So they've stopped hiding from the cases.
"Why is it that many of you right wing .... keyboard warriors always bring up the perceived oppression of bigoted anti-socialist pseudo Christian bakers"?
"Hello, baker."
"Yes?"
"Make me a knish."
"I don't make knishes. Not even on the menu."
"I'll take you to court over this knish."
"There is no knish. We don't make them."
"Look, I came across town and past four other bakers to get this knish, and I don't have much time. Get on it."
"Don't even know how to make a knish. Here's this cake, you can decorate it to make it look like a knish."
{on the phone} "We got him."
The bad is that this will criminalize gun possession throughout almost all of Manhattan, at least. The good news is that it doesn’t seem to exempt those who earlier got their carry permits through political contacts or being former cops. Where are the rich and powerful going to get their armed security?
I say bring it on. With every case we get one step closer to unrestricted constitutional carry.
Whatever one thinks about the whether the right to abortion exists or should exist, one obvious downside of the Roe regime was it forced place where pro-life people dominated into a legal regime they hated, and the people of those areas and their legislators didn't like that one bit, and fought long and hard against it. Conservatives rightly complained about it, but adamantlry demand that New York City embraces the same gun rights regime of Eastern Texas. That's... not going to work.
The difference is that "keep and bear arms" is explicitly written into the Constitution. New York City did not have the right to prohibit that starting in 1868, and it doesn't today.