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Divorced Couple Dispute Over Pre-Embryos: One Wants Them Destroyed, the Other Wants Them Implanted
Colorado law says that ordinarily the decision is in favor of the person who doesn't want the embryos implanted; the Colorado Court of Appeals held that this applies even when the person has religious reasons for wanting to donate them to another couple.
From In re Marriage of Fabos & Olsen, decided today by the Colorado Court of Appeals (written by Judge Michael Berger and joined by Judges Jaclyn Casey Brown & Sueanna Johnson), in which the wife (Fabos) and the husband (Olsen) were "disput[ing] the disposition of their cryogenically frozen pre-embryos after their divorce":
[W]e review the district court's award of the parties' pre-embryos to wife based on its application of the multi-factor balancing test from In re Marriage of Rooks (Colo. 2018) …. Rooks resolved a dispute between one spouse who wanted to implant pre-embryos to have children and the other spouse who wanted to destroy the pre-embryos to avoid becoming a genetic parent. The supreme court recognized that the parties' constitutionally based interests "in either achieving or avoiding genetic parenthood" formed the underpinnings of the analysis. Rooks, however, did not address, as part of its balancing test, the issue of one party's desire to donate the pre-embryos versus the other party's desire to destroy them.
This case centers on a dispute between one spouse [here, the wife] who wants to donate the pre-embryos to another couple because of her religious belief that they are human lives and must be preserved and the other spouse who wants to destroy the pre-embryos to avoid procreation. Therefore, this case presents an issue not addressed by Rooks: how to account for one party's religious beliefs as part of the balancing test…. We reverse the judgment[ and] direct entry of judgment for husband ….
The opinion is long and interesting, but here's an excerpt:
The district court erred by considering wife's religious belief that the pre-embryos are human lives when weighting the first Rooks factor—the intended use of the party seeking to preserve the disputed pre-embryos.
It is undisputed that wife's primary intended use of the pre-embryos is to donate them to another infertile couple. The court first acknowledged that, "[o]n an objective scale," a party's desire to implant pre-embryos to bear children is entitled to greater weight than a party's desire to donate them. But it noted that wife's desire to preserve the pre-embryos "is based upon her deeply rooted conviction that pre-embryos are human life," which is "grounded in [her] sincerely held religious beliefs." …
[But] Rooks instructs us that a party's right to achieve procreation and a party's right to avoid procreation are "equivalently important," constitutionally based rights. It follows that a party's desire to implant pre-embryos to achieve genetic parenthood and a party's desire to avoid genetic parenthood likewise are "equivalently important." And, because a party's desire to donate pre-embryos is entitled to less weight than a party's desire to implant them, a party's desire to donate must also be entitled to less weight than a party's desire to avoid genetic parenthood. See Fabos ("[O]rdinarily a party not wanting to procreate should prevail when the other party wants to donate the pre-embryos instead of using them to have a child of his or her own.") (emphasis in original)….
Our analysis relating to the first Rooks factor should not be read to mean that the district court erred by considering wife's religious beliefs. To the contrary, it was proper—and required—for the court to hear evidence concerning wife's religious beliefs about the disposition of pre-embryos. But instead of considering wife's religious beliefs as part of the first Rooks factor, which erroneously caused the district court to weight that factor substantially in wife's favor, the court should have considered wife's beliefs as an additional factor beyond those articulated in Rooks…. [And] the court [should not] weight that new factor more heavily than husband's interest in not procreating …. Essentially, correctly applying Rooks … would cause these two factors to offset each other.
When these adjustments are made, determining which party would prevail in the balancing of interests becomes a close call. And if it is a close call, husband should prevail because "[o]rdinarily a party not wanting to procreate should prevail when the other party wants to donate the pre-embryos instead of using them to have a child of his or her own." Id. at (emphasis in original)….
[W]e do not adopt a "bright line" rule that a party seeking to donate pre-embryos rather than implant them can never prevail over the other party's interest in avoiding procreation. A party seeking to donate may prevail based on other Rooks factors that were not implicated by this case or based on other case-specific factors not contemplated by Rooks. For example, if a court found that the party wanting to avoid procreation had engaged in bad faith, that factor might tilt the analysis in favor of the party wanting to donate. Or if the parties had undergone IVF solely for the altruistic purpose of donating the pre-embryos rather than to produce their own genetic children, the party seeking to donate may prevail.
But none of those circumstances are present here. Accordingly, we conclude that this case does not present the rare circumstance where a party wanting to donate can prevail against a party wanting to avoid procreating….
Wife argues that the district court should have applied strict scrutiny to the application of Rooks and given dispositive weight to her Free Exercise rights because it cannot require her to participate in the destruction of the pre-embryos, which she considers her children.
The court rejected wife's argument that strict scrutiny applied to its application of the Rooks test because of her religious beliefs. The court found that applying strict scrutiny would improperly tilt the Rooks test in wife's favor because her position is based on religion, and that … wife's religious view [should not be elevated] over husband's secular view.
Although we are sensitive to wife's concern that awarding the pre-embryos to husband will force her to participate in their destruction against her religious beliefs, the district court can enter orders to mitigate this concern. The district court can award husband the pre-embryos and authorize him to direct their disposal. Wife need not be involved in the process. Because the decision will belong to husband, wife will not be compelled to do anything in violation of her religious beliefs, and therefore there is no Free Exercise violation.
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I don't see why the other person cannot just walk away if they don't want to be involved.
You think the judge is going to take on child support?
Or are you volunteering?
Unless I'm missing something there is no indication the unwilling parent would have to pay for the offspring.
Typically the woman has unlimited authority on what happens so I'm not sure what magically changes simply because the embryos change location.
There was an Arizona case in 2019 that initially ruled just that. The woman in the divorce wanted to use the embryos even while the contract stated both had to agree.
A judge actually stated she could and it would make her ex liable for child support. It appears the case went to the Arizona Supreme Court to uphold the contract.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/divorced-woman-can-t-use-frozen-embryos-arizona-supreme-court-n1123166
if the wife wanted to force the husband to pay that changes things but it seems in this case she just wants to keep the embryos. In the case you cite the exwife also agreed that the ex husband wouldn't pay. Being on the hook in this case is just some silly quirk from the law not taking into account IVF that should be changed
states rarely care what agreements private parties come up with. if she or the children later needed state assistance you can guarantee the state would go after her ex.
Btw its kinda shitty of you guys to want to destroy a cancer patients hopes of ever having children just because you're so reflexively proabortion.
Completely illogical.
1. avoiding procreation and avoiding becoming a genetic parent are no longer options. That ship has sailed, whatever view you take of the created item and its moral value.
2. Leaving that aside and humoring the illusion that procreation hasn't happened already, what about wanting to be a genetic parent v not wanting ditto. If these are equal, then wanting to bear the child yourself is an additional weight in the scale alongside wanting to be a genetic parent. Thus donation instead of incubating the little monster yourself, returns the match to a tie. It doesn’t tip the balance in the husband’s favor. Think about it - if wanting and not wanting to be a genetic parent are equal, how could not wanting suddenly win just because the wanting parent donates rather than does it herself ? She still gets to be a genetic parent.
3. Thus if the wife’s religious feelings are a weight in her favor then that tips the scale to her.
The court’s logic is pretty much backwards.
"[But] Rooks instructs us that a party's right to achieve procreation and a party's right to avoid procreation are "equivalently important," constitutionally based rights."
Funny, it never seemed to work out that way in abortion cases.
True, abortion never goes down this logical trail because abortion rights are predicated on the inconvenience to the mother of actually bearing the child.
So if we were to flip into this case’s logic to analyse abortion, the mother’s reluctance to bear the child would count as a weight on the scale to break the wanna be / don’t wanna be a genetic parent tie tipping the result to abort.
And if the parents in this case were flipped so it was Mom wanting to flush the embryo and Pop wanting it implanted in Mom, Mom would prevail even in the logic of this case.
But that only underlines that where Mom wants to bear the child it’s a at the case weight in her favor, and where she donates it’s still a tie. Before we get on to religious feelings.
We could also look the case where Pop is pro the baby, Mom is against and Pop proposes donation. Neither bears the burden of carrying the baby so it’s a tie. But this case would seem to argue that the mere fact that the embryo is donated is a weight against the pro baby parent. Which is nuts.
There are four cases here.
Frozen embryo, guy wants to donate, girl wants destroyed.
Frozen embryo, guy wants destroyed, girl wants to donate.
Implanted embryo, guy wants live birth, girl wants destroyed.
Implanted embryo, guy wants destroyed, girl wants live birth.
In all four cases, the woman wins, and in the last case, the woman wins AND gets child support. Even if she became pregnant by fishing a spent condom out of the trash and inseminating herself with it.
The truth is, the reasoning isn't actually any deeper than, "The woman wins every time."
In this actual case, the second on your list, the woman lost. Even though she had religious feeling on her side, which was apparently to be accorded some weight.
I think the general principle is the Breyer balancing principle. Select your weights carefully and the scales will tip the way you prefer.
Would destroying such embryos in Texas trigger SB8?
People don't trigger SB8.
SB8 triggers people.
Do frozen embryos at a sufficiently early stage that they've never implanted have a heartbeat?
Not SB8. Proposed laws elsewhere would grant fetal rights at egg fertilization. Those laws would make IVF illegal or not economically viable. Destruction of embryos is routine, either because there are too many or because they are developing badly and (in the doctor's judgment) would not result in a live birth.
I say let it grow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqvD4NC-s9E
This is what being fine with abortion does. The interests in death should never outweigh the interests in life.
I say let it grow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKQq0fa_03w
Flagged?
Divorce is rarely beautiful and calm, so I'm not surprised. Sometimes I think that I will have to get married too.. But for now I still have time for fun at the san-jose milf dating - https://www.bangmatures.com/california/san-jose/mature-women.html There are a lot of people like me who are in no hurry to officially formalize the relationship. This is a trend I think.
Please donate to my charity that knits sweaters for these poor little embryos…they are freezing and don’t get hugs. So sadz. 🙁
I'm waiting for someone to invent a process for removing implanted embryos from a woman and keeping them alive but frozen or otherwise not growing.
Eugene could have been a billionaire tech oligarch, of tremendous value to society. Instead he chose to wallow in this garbage lawyer sewer and to destroy a $billion in value each year he lives. He indoctrinates hundreds of students into garbage supernatural doctrines.
These questions do not have a good answer. The courts shouldjust send them back to the parties. The dispute is fake. It reflects disgruntled divorced people who want to hurt each other. The court clerk should be authorized to dismiss to protect the reputation of the court.
If the court has to get involved, it should use a utilitarian analysis. That analysis asks about the lives of the donors. The offspring is likely to be similar. If their lives are a net negative, destroy. If their lives are yhat they are taxpayers and successful donate to a couple who would be happier.
Self evident to the people on the bus and at the diner. Way beyond the ken of the lawyer dumbass running these failed grbage courts.
I think I accidentally flagged my own comment earlier. Easy to do if you're scrolling on a phone. But anyway, I like the song!