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Conjunction Disjunction in the Dobbs Draft
Does the Glucksberg test require a right to be "fundamental" and "deeply rooted" or "fundamental" or "deeply rooted"?
In 2019, I published an article on Timbs v. Indiana with my itinerant co-author, Ilya Shapiro. We contended that Justice Ginsburg modified the Glucksberg test, as it was stated by Justice Alito in McDonald v. Chicago.
Justice Ginsburg wrote the majority opinion in Timbs, joined in full by Chief Justice Roberts and Justices Breyer, Alito, Sotomayor, Kagan, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh.144 This octet relied on the substantive due process framework employed in McDonald—sort of. Justice Ginsburg cited McDonald for the proposition that "[a] Bill of Rights protection is incorporated . . . if it is 'fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty,' or 'deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition.'" That is, a right can be incorporated if it is either (a) "fundamental" or (b) "deeply rooted." Justice Ginsburg's summary is a plausible reading of McDonald, but not the best reading. Consider Justice Alito's test, in full:
With this framework in mind, we now turn directly to the question [of] whether the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms is incorporated in the concept of due process. In answering that question, . . . we must decide whether the right to keep and bear arms is fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty, or as [the Court has] said in a related context, whether this right is "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition."146
McDonald is better read to require both factors: that the right is (a) "fundamental" and (b) "deeply rooted." That is, asking if a right is "deeply rooted" is a way of determining whether that right is "fundamental." The inquiries overlap. Under the new Timbs test, however, a modern—or even postmodern—right could still be deemed fundamental. Indeed, this novel approach echoes the framework Justice Breyer advanced in his McDonald dissent: "I thus think it proper, above all where history provides no clear answer, to look to other factors in considering whether a right is sufficiently 'fundamental' to remove it from the political process in every State."147
Alas, because seven other Justices joined Justice Ginsburg in Timbs, the Court has now watered down the incorporation test.
In the Dobbs draft, Justice Alito seems to have reverted back to his understanding of the Glucksberg test in McDonald. Joseph Blass made the catch at Balkinization:
Compare Justice Ginsburg's statement of the test in Timbs with Justice Alito's citation to her statement (emphasis my own). Justice Ginsburg writes that a right is protected under the Constitution's Due Process Clause "if it is fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty, or deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition" (internal quotations omitted). But Justice Alito now writes: "Justice Ginsburg's opinion for the Court in Timbs [concluded] that the Eighth Amendment's protection against excessive fines is 'fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty' and 'deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition.'" See the difference? Justice Alito slices Justice Ginsburg's statement of the test in Timbs in half around the word "or," sandwiching her quoted statements of the branches around a new "and". The opinion states the test four separate times, each time using "and" to connect the two branches. But up until this draft opinion the test has been disjunctive: in McDonald, Justice Alito states the test much as Justice Ginsburg did in Timbs, using "or." And so does Chief Justice Rehnquist in Glucksberg, the case that originated the test by drawing together its branches from prior Due Process precedents.
Conjunction disjunction at the Supreme Court.
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Speaking of "conjunction disjunction"!
The introduction of the conjunction disjunction is a disjunction? What's its function?
(F & D) v (F v D)
Even schoolhouse rock doesn't give proper treatment to disjuncts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AyjKgz9tKg
Black's law has always done better, but it is mostly citied when a party (or justice) is trying to increase the truth value possibilities for a given proposition. Consistently is uncommon. Alito will rediscover love for a disjunctive reading.
I meant the lack of comma, introducing confusion over "(a and b) or (c) or (d)" etc.
After yesterday's Monsters Inc. clip, it seems wrong not to link to the obligatory Schoolhouse Rock short.
Done, above. But the short does disservice to disjunction.
Isn't the real issue that Rehnquist basically *invented* that "rule" in Glucksberg, without regard to the original meaning or intent of the Ninth Amendment? The Ninth Amendment (along with the Tenth) is a linchpin of the Constitution. The principal argument for adoption of the original Constitution without a Bill of Rights was that it was unnecessary and dangerous to attempt to enumerate and specify the rights of free people. Similarly, the principal argument against adoption of the Bill of Rights five years later was that to enumerate and specify those particular rights might (wrongly) imply the non-existence of others; hence the need for the Ninth. To treat "the Constitution nowhere mentions abortion" as a starting point, as if that were in any way significant, is profoundly un-Originalist. It disrespects and misunderstands the nature of rights, as appreciated by the Framers, under the original meaning of both the original Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and as carried forward by the Radical Reconstructionists in the Privileges and Immunities and Due Process Clauses of the Fourteenth Amendment a century later.
That's as I understand it. Regarding abortion specifically, I never understood why Roe v Wade had to rely on penumbras and emanations when the 9th and 10th were available, and abortion before the quickening was widely (but discreetly) recognized when the Constitution was ratified, and can only conclude that recognizing the 9th and 10th was even more disgusting than recognizing the 2nd, or basic economic liberty.
"and abortion before the quickening was widely (but discreetly) recognized when the Constitution was ratified"
Ignored and recognized a very different things and have different impacts for a 9A analysis.
"and can only conclude that recognizing the 9th and 10th was even more disgusting than recognizing the 2nd, or basic economic liberty."
And then there is the violence done to the text of the 11th. An amendment which by it's plain text says that the federal courts can't entertain lawsuits against a state by foreign nationals or residents of another state got turned into immunity to lawsuits by the state's own residents.
And then there is the violence done to the text of the 11th. An amendment which by it's plain text says that the federal courts can't entertain lawsuits against a state by foreign nationals or residents of another state got turned into immunity to lawsuits by the state's own residents.
The 11th Amendment does not by its own terms grant State's sovereign immunity, but it was meant to overrule Chisholm v. Georgia, which rejected each State's sovereign immunity regarding diversity jurisdiction.
A detailed explanation is provided by SCOTUS in Franchise Tax Board of California v. Hyatt, 587 U.S. __ (2019).
"The 11th Amendment does not by its own terms grant State's sovereign immunity, but it was meant to overrule Chisholm v. Georgia, which rejected each State's sovereign immunity regarding diversity jurisdiction."
But SCOTUS went further than the 11A text and granted states sovereign immunity even when diversity jurisdiction is not in play.
Rehnquist couldn’t have invented the test in Glucksberg, because it was in existence begore then. Byron White used it in Bowers v. Hardwick.
Bowers cited Palko v. Connecticut for the “implicit in the concept of ordered liberty” arm and Moore v. East Cleveland for the “deeply rooted in this nation’s history and tradition” arm. Because the opinion stressed that a “right of homosexuals to engage in sodomy” satisfief neither arm, it didn’t address whether the test was conjunctive or disjunctive.
I'm pretty sure that, these days, saying that the "right of homosexuals to engage in sodomy" fails either test will get you cancelled.
One can only hope...
Citing Bowers v Hardwick as a foundation of constitutional doctrine is like citing Dred Scott or Bradwell v. Illinois the same way. That opinion is in the pantheon of the worst, most patently predicated on prejudice rather than principle, and thus most embarrassing Supreme Court decisions ever.
If the "or" isn't a separate sufficient condition (Ginsburg's interpretation), then it must refer to an equivalent condition. That is, is the right fundamental to ordered liberty, or equivalently, deeply rooted in the nation's history. At first blush, I can't see how you could interpret "or" to mean either "and" (as a separate condition) or merely overlapping inquiries.
I have a question about, "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition." Is that meant to be restricted to the history and tradition of the nation's legal practice? Or does it apply more generally to the nation's customs, activity, opinion, and advocacy?
I have a different question.
Why must a right be "deeply rooted, etc." at all?
bernard11
June.9.2022 at 2:16 pm
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I have a different question.
Why must a right be "deeply rooted, etc." at all?"
It doesnt matter - if the right is in the BOR - then it is fundamental and should be incorporated under 14A. Any claim to require deeply rooted or any other limitation is pure BS -
The 9th amendment suggests that there may be other rights besides enumerated ones. But how do we decide whether any given X actually is a right?
1) Majoritarianly. But if majorities support X, then whether it's a right is an academic question. It's only unpopular things that need to be protected rights.
2) Whims of the judges as to what things should be protected rights. But why? Judges are not appointed because they have special moral insight. If it's just an arbitrary decision based on personal preference, then there's no reason to assign that decision to the judiciary.
3) It's been historically understood that X is a right. Note that this fits with the text of the 9th, which discusses rights being retained by the people — i.e., that they always had them. If X was never thought to be a right, then how could the people have retained it as a right?
4) ???
The common law method.
You mean, pretending that this was the law all along and the judge is just discovering it now?
"Justice Ginsburg cited McDonald for the proposition that "[a] Bill of Rights protection is incorporated . . . if it is 'fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty,' or 'deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition.'" That is, a right can be incorporated if it is either (a) "fundamental" or (b) "deeply rooted." Justice Ginsburg's summary is a plausible reading of McDonald, but not the best reading. Consider Justice Alito's test, in full:..."
The correct reading is that all the rights are incorporated - 14A "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
the claim that the right has to be fundamental or deeply rooted etc is just argument that gives courts to option to cherrypick the rights they like
we must decide whether the right to keep and bear arms is fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty, or as [the Court has] said in a related context, whether this right is "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition.
I don't see how this can possibly be read to require both conditions to be met. "Fundamental" and "deeply rooted" are two different things.
The individual right is detailed in 2A which means it is a fundamental right - same as all the rights in the BOR
OK. But I wasn't really referring to any specific right, just commenting that it seems clear that the requirement as stated is "either," not "both."
I am just pointing out that the test using "and " "or" "etither or any other requirement or limitation are purely made up with no support and in direct conflict with the first sentence of 14A
That's not what the incorporation cases say. Hence no right to unanimous civil juries at state level.
As my comment below belabors in greater detail, Alito and Rehnquist are treating the status of being "deeply rooted in this Nation's history and tradition" as a benchmark of a right being "fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty," since the latter is such a vague concept which could ostensibly be extended ad infinitum.
This is what Rehnquist in Glucksberg means when he says that "substantive-due-process jurisprudence... has been a process whereby the outlines of the "liberty" specially protected by the Fourteenth Amendment-never fully clarified, to be sure, and perhaps not capable of being fully clarified-have at least been carefully refined by concrete examples involving fundamental rights found to be deeply rooted in our legal tradition."
It seems to me that Joseph Blass agrees with Ginsburg's interpretation of Alito's test in McDonald over yours, and claims that it had always been read as "fundamental or deeply rooted" prior to Alito's Dobbs draft. But to my eyes, he misinterprets what Rehnquist said in Glucksberg to do so.
Blass writes that “Chief Justice Rehnquist first states the [Glucksberg] test with an “and" [but]... repeats the test just a few pages later using “or,” which suggests his earlier “and” is not a logical conjunction but rather enumerates a list... [and u]nless Chief Justice Rehnquist announced different tests within a few pages, his use of “or” shows that the earlier “and” should be read to enumerate alternatives."
The "first time" that Blass alludes to is at 720-21 and has Rehnquist saying that "First, we have regularly observed that the Due Process Clause specially protects those fundamental rights and liberties which are, objectively, “deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition...” and “implicit in the concept of ordered liberty,” such that “neither liberty nor justice would exist if they were sacrificed."
However, the second time, at 727, Rehnquist is not restating the "test" that he is employing in his Glucksberg opinion. The respondents [opposing Washington's assisted-suicide ban] had invoked Kennedy's "sweet mystery of life" passage to argue that the choice to commit suicide is a fundamental right. Rehnquist responds by explaining that "[b]y choosing this language, the Court’s opinion in Casey described, in a general way and in light of our prior cases, those personal activities and decisions that this Court has identified as so deeply rooted in our history and traditions, or so fundamental to our concept of constitutionally ordered liberty, that they are protected by the Fourteenth Amendment."
With that sentence Rehnquist was demonstrating the jurisprudential process of Kennedy in Casey, and highlighting that Kennedy was not making a "sweeping conclusion that any and all important, intimate, and personal decisions" are protected as fundamental rights. He was not saying the "Glucksberg test" requires something to be either “deeply rooted” OR “fundamental” Indeed, at 722, he says that “the development of this Court’s substantive-due-process jurisprudence, described briefly supra, at 719–720, has been a process whereby the outlines of the “liberty” specially protected by the Fourteenth Amendment—never fully clarified, to be sure, and perhaps not capable of being fully clarified—have at least been carefully refined by concrete examples involving fundamental rights found to be deeply rooted in our legal tradition.” Fundamental AND deeply rooted.
This is why Alito uses “or” in McDonald when he says “we must decide whether the right to keep and bear arms is fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty, Duncan, 391 U. S., at 149, or as we have said in a related context, whether this right is “deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition.” One can disagree with them, but it seems to me that Rehnquist in Glucksberg and Alito in McDonald are both saying that since it is incredibly vague to declare that a right is “fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty,” a way to demonstrate that fundamentality is to show that the right is “deeply rooted.”
*Who* rewrote the test???
http://balkin.blogspot.com/2022/06/rewriting-rule-for-rights.html
Compare Justice Ginsburg’s statement of the test in Timbs with Justice Alito’s citation to her statement (emphasis my own). Justice Ginsburg writes that a right is protected under the Constitution’s Due Process Clause “if it is fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty, or deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition” (internal quotations omitted). But Justice Alito now writes: “Justice Ginsburg’s opinion for the Court in Timbs [concluded] that the Eighth Amendment’s protection against excessive fines is ‘fundamental to our scheme of ordered liberty’ and ‘deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition.’” See the difference? Justice Alito slices Justice Ginsburg’s statement of the test in Timbs in half around the word “or,” sandwiching her quoted statements of the branches around a new “and”. The opinion states the test four separate times, each time using “and” to connect the two branches. But up until this draft opinion the test has been disjunctive: in McDonald, Justice Alito states the test much as Justice Ginsburg did in Timbs, using “or.” And so does Chief Justice Rehnquist in Glucksberg, the case that originated the test by drawing together its branches from prior Due Process precedents.
Glucksberg merits an aside that requires a bit of traipsing into the linguistic weeds. In Glucksberg, Chief Justice Rehnquist first states the test with an “and,” writing that “the Due Process Clause specially protects those fundamental rights and liberties which are, objectively, ‘deeply rooted in this Nation’s history and tradition,’… and ‘implicit in the concept of ordered liberty’”. This is the statement to which Justice Alito first cites. But in Glucksberg, Chief Justice Rehnquist repeats the test just a few pages later using “or,” which suggests his earlier “and” is not a logical conjunction but rather enumerates a list. Think of it this way: if I declare, “I make breakfast for people who are awake and alert,” you might think a yawning guest will not eat, but if I say “I make breakfast for people who are awake and asleep,” you will understand that everyone eats in my house. Unless Chief Justice Rehnquist announced different tests within a few pages, his use of “or” shows that the earlier “and” should be read to enumerate alternatives, as the Court did in Timbs and McDonald. And indeed, since Glucksberg, courts have at times found the test satisfied by only one of the two branches and have not required both: for example, a grandparent’s right to establish a parental relationship with a grandchild was protected as a traditional right, while a lawful permanent resident’s right to a bond hearing while awaiting complex immigration proceedings was found to be inherent in ordered liberty. The test previously required that one of two inquiries be satisfied; as rewritten by Justice Alito, it will now require both.
Sorry, both paras are quotes from the Balkinization post. Apparently I needed to repeat the html tags for each paragraph.
The Glucksberg opinion recognized that in addition to the specific freedoms protected by the Bill of Rights, the "liberty" specially protected by the Due Process Clause includes, among other things, the right to bodily integrity and the right to abortion. 521 U.S. 702, 720 (1997). Somehow Justice Alito's draft opinion in Dobbs fails to mention that.
That's not what it said. What it recognized was that the Court has held that the DPC protected those things. I don't think Alito would dispute that. He just argues that it was wrong to do have done so.