The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Limiting Yourself to 7% of the Potential Candidates …
is usually unlikely to yield the best candidate.
Ilya Shapiro, formerly of the Cato Institute and now executive director of the Georgetown Center for the Constitution (which is headed by my co-blogger Randy Barnett), tweeted this earlier this week:
Objectively best pick for Biden is Sri Srinivasan, who is solid prog & v smart. Even has identity politics benefit of being first Asian (Indian) American. But alas doesn't fit into the latest intersectionality hierarchy so we'll get lesser black woman. Thank heaven for small favors?
Because Biden said he's only consider[ing] black women for SCOTUS, his nominee will always have an asterisk attached. Fitting that the Court takes up affirmative action next term.
Now the phrase "lesser black woman" is a bad way of putting this, but it seems to me pretty clear that it was just a poorly chosen way of saying "less qualified black woman." And that strikes me as an eminently legitimate criticism of Biden's position, though as it happens one I don't share. I think we should be having more debate about this subject, especially in law schools, rather than less; and I certainly don't think professors or center directors should be fired for expressing such views (as some having been saying should happen to Shapiro).
President Biden had pledged that he'd select a black woman for this seat (he said he'd appoint a black woman to the Court, and this is likely the one vacancy that he'll be able to fill in this presidential term). This is to say that he has limited himself to roughly 7% of the population. That makes it highly unlikely that whoever he picks would "objectively"—I take it Shapiro means based on professional qualifications apart from race and sex—be the best of the progressive picks for the spot.
To be sure, it's of course possible that a black woman would be the most qualified candidate. It just isn't very likely, the same way that you're unlikely to get the objectively best person for any position if you announced that you would choose someone whose first name starts with D (also apparently about 7% of the population). Indeed, a common argument in favor of nondiscrimination in employment—and in favor of taking affirmative steps to broaden the pool of potential applicants—is that by artificially narrowing the pool of applicants (or even by failing to correct for existing narrowness of the pool) you'd be missing out on some of the best candidates.
What's more, Shapiro believes—quite plausibly—that in this case the artificial narrowing did indeed fence out the best candidate: Sri Srinivasan, who has served for 8 years as an appellate judge on the D.C. Circuit, and who many view as one of the smartest lawyers and appellate judges in the country. I've heard his name mentioned often in that capacity, much as then-Judge John Roberts was viewed that way when he was on the D.C. Circuit.
And while Judge Srinivasan is sometimes specially noted as a prominent nonwhite judge, my sense is that he would be included on lists of the top lawyers and judges entirely apart from his identity. The leading black female candidates are not, I think, generally listed on such lists; for instance, the top two candidates that have recently been talked about, Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson and Justice Leondra Kruger, are generally very well-regarded, but I don't think they've made a name for themselves at quite the level of Judge Srinivasan. (This is no knock on either of them—to be a successful and well-regarded judge, as both of them are, is itself a great accomplishment.)
Naturally, others may rank judges differently in different ways; perhaps Judge Jackson and Justice Kruger should be on such lists entirely apart from identity. And we might also be suspicious of various factors that influence the ranking; for instance, it may well be that legal elites just focus more on federal circuit judges than on state supreme court justices like Justice Kruger. But it's certainly plausible to think, as Shapiro does, that Judge Srinivasan would be the best pick based on non-identity factors—and that therefore President Biden is doing a disservice to the country by passing him over because of a precommitment to appoint someone from 7% of the population.
Now as I've noted, I don't quite see matters this way. First, I think that race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, and the like are legitimate factors in high-level government appointments even though they aren't for everyday public employment or education. I don't think Presidents should feel limited to "objective," non-identity-based factors in making such appointments.
Second, I think it's also relevant here that the "objective" factors are really quite subjective. It's hard to accurately evaluate the quality of people's legal minds, and especially to predict their likely work product on a nine-member Supreme Court. That doesn't of course dispose of the question of whether we should consider identity factors; for instance, I don't think race, religion, or sex should play a role in ordinary government hiring or student admissions, even when qualifications are hard to measure and success is hard to predict. But if I'm right that for high-level positions considering identity factors is permissible, then it's hard for me to say confidently that considering those factors would yield a materially less qualified candidate, given that the qualifications are so hard to pin down.
Third, the "asterisk" claim strikes me as factually implausible, at least if one views the asterisk as a negative. I think it would be highly plausible in many other contexts; if the next world chess champion, for instance, were selected based on the chess federation's promise that the next champion would be Hispanic (or even that all Hispanic players would be spotted a pawn), that would surely cheapen his success. (Compare the great Jose Raul Capablanca, who of course has no such asterisk.) But judicial appointments aren't an objective competition. Having the opportunity to serve the law at that level is a great accomplishment whatever the bases for the appointment; and the way to make it greater is simply to do more with it. Earl Warren, like him or not, is remembered as an especially important Chief Justice because of what he helped do on the Court, and no-one diminishes that on the grounds that he was appointed in part for political reasons stemming from the 1952 election.
But I think this is the sort of discussion we should be having. Perhaps Shapiro is mistaken, and I'm right. Or perhaps he's right, and I'm mistaken. Or perhaps we're both mistaken, or perhaps both partly right.
And more importantly, to the extent I'm right (or to the extent President Biden is right), no-one can have any confidence about that unless rival views can be freely aired, both at the outset and in response to disagreements such as this one. If people are fired from law schools for expressing either side (or for an ill-chosen word in a Tweet expressing either side), then we can't have that confidence. The view that dominates will dominate because of fear and suppression, not because people have actually seen the best arguments on both sides. And I don't want that even for the view that I happen to think is correct.
Note: Ilya Shapiro and I have worked together on various projects in his time on Cato, including amicus briefs that I've written (usually through my Amicus Brief Clinic) with Cato. I consider him a friend, though through our professional lives rather than our social lives.
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Wrong, because we are dealing with 1 opening in which even by the most restrictive qualification (serving as a SCOTUS clerk and being 40-60 years of age) hundreds are equally qualified.
I came here to say exactly that. The "objectively best" candidate is a 100-way tie, and anyone who claims to be able to narrow it down further than that is either lying or placing (too much) weight on irrelevant criteria like having gone to X law school or served on Y court.
That's is a fair position. But if Shapiro does happen to believe (however misguidedly) that Judge Srinivasan is truly the best candidate, then Volokh's analysis still applies for the purposes being discussed here.
Still wrong. The value of a nominee depends on the existing makeup of the court. If the court doesn't have anyone who has experience with western water compacts, someone who has that experience will be more valuable than their resume, considered in a vacuum, would suggest. Similarly, a court with four white guys doesn't need another one. In the context of the current court, it's very plausible that the top candidates in terms of value to the court, including #1, are black women, since they'll bring some much needed perspective.
You inadvertently have fallen into same trap the left have. It is true that at some point, there are probably hundreds that are "qualified" to sit on the Supreme Court. But that does not mean they are equal.
In the history of the Supreme Court, there have been mediocre justices, great justices, and a few intellectual giants. Holmes, Brennan and Scalia all fall into the latter category. They each had influence on both SCOTUS and lower court jurisprudence far beyond a single vote on a nine-justice court.
By limiting himself to a black woman, Biden has made it much less likely that the person will be a great justice, and certainly not an intellectual giant. Sure, the person will most likely be "qualified." The three or so names that have been thrown out all seem to meet that bar. But a Brennan or Scalia they will never be.
Conservatives should take heart from this. The left with its identity politics has handicapped itself. From the conservative point of view, we would much rather have a mediocre black woman justice than another William Brennan. The left, it they broke out of their woke thinking, would realize the opposite. But William Brennan was a white man, so that disqualifies him in their eyes. This is the jurisprudential equivalent of Go Woke, Go Broke.
“By limiting himself to a black woman, Biden has made it much less likely that the person will be a great justice, and certainly not an intellectual giant.”
Why can’t black women be intellectual giants?
“But a Brennan or Scalia they will never be.”
How do you know that?
Answer to your first question: I said less likely. Sure, a black person can be an intellectual giant, but when you have that limitation, you are less likely to get there.
Answer to your second question: Because the three candidates mentioned so far are clearly not that. They may be fine for what they are (circuit judges, or one California Supreme Court justice), and they may do an admirable job on SCOTUS, but their output thus far makes clear to me that they will never be a Brennan or Scalia.
So let me put this to the left wingers: if there was a white male candidate who looked promsing to be the next William J. Brennan, or one of the three black female candidates that were touted after it was leaked this week, err, announced this week, that Breyer was retiring, which would you prefer Biden nominate?
These candidates look better on paper than Thomas. Are you saying he's a bust?
Nice deflection. Give you two points.
Thomas was clearly an affirmative action appointment. To be fair to Reagan, he was replacing Marshall, and had Reagain nominated a white guy, he would have been excoriated.
Thomas turned out to be a pleasant surprise, much better than one would have expected at the time.
So maybe this nomination, with *more* 'objective' qualifications, will really be great, amirite?
Anything is possible, of course. But I doubt it. The current crop (excuse that metaphor), seem like nice, capable people but that is all.
And in any case, you are missing my point. Biden's number one requirement is that the person be a black woman, which he did for political reasons. (A politician acting for political reasons, what a concept!) That limitation makes it less likely that his pick will be a great justice. If the left were not so wrapped up in identity politics, they would press him to pick the person most likely to be the next left-wing intellectual superstar. Their cry should be "we want the next William J. Brennan," not "we want a black woman." That will handicap their ideological goals.
Which is just fine by me. And which conservatives should be thankful for.
WTF do you think William Brennan did? He himself was literally picked because he was a Catholic!
So then you can retract your first statement because you actually have no idea if they’re going to be as influential as Brennan.
No one can predict the future with certainty. But from what I see now, the top three candidates mentioned for Biden to pick are not there intellectually.
And you’re sure that has nothing to do with your biases, right?
RE: "Thomas was clearly an affirmative action appointment. To be fair to Reagan, he was replacing Marshall, and had Reagain nominated a white guy, he would have been excoriated."
Reagan did not nominate Clarence Thomas. (Doioioioi!)!
Right, Bush pere. My bad. Point still valid, Bush could not have appointed a white man to succeed Marshall.
President Bush I limited his search to succeed Thurgood Marshall not only to blacks, but to black Republican toadies. Clarence Thomas had made a career to that point of sucking up to Republicans, first John Danforth and then Ronald Reagan. Bush wound up with a nominee who was not fit to carry Marshall's briefcase.
Hey, don't speak so harshly about Clarence Thomas. He's been feeling very poorly ever since he learned that Daniel Arthur Mead used a prosthesis.
Bush probably wouldn't have nominated a white man, but he would certainly not have appointed a white man with a resume as thin as Thomas's. Furthermore, that Thomas had managed to do the job pretty well for so long should make us less obsessed with purportedly objective criteria and make us somewhat more humble about our ability to rank the "best" candidates.
There is no real way to tell likelihood of greatness a priori, after a certain threshold.
Moreover, the very idea that 'likelihood of greatness' is part of the calculation these days is not clear at all. However Presidents are picking Justices, it's not been a meritocracy in quite a while.
Who is the intellectual giant that Biden will be missing out on? Srinivasan? If so, Shapiro and you are able to tell things us mere mortals cannot.
This is just disaffected clingers trying to nip at their betters' ankles, as usual. A steady, against-the-odds stream of White Federalist Society members doesn't faze them, but when the talk expands to mainstream candidates, the wingnuts get lathered.
Carry on, clingers. We'll let you know how far and how long, as usual.
I predict that Srinivasan will be the next Biden pick if he gets one. Probably because he is Asian-American and excellent. Just as his current reported candidates are African-American women and excellent. Will we see the same hysterics then?
Depends. If AA survives the current lawsuits over discrimination against Asian Americans, maybe not, because the left would be concerned that an Asian American justice, even if left-wing, might agree with the right on AA where the victims are of his own ethnicity.
If AA goes down, seems more likely, because that prospect is off the table.
Do you have any idea how few law school graduates are conservatives? Especially with respect to the top law schools? It is the Republican Party for which the pickings are slim.
There are viable Federalist Society chapters at pretty much all the top law schools, so I doubt the supply of conservative law graduates will be a problem anytime soon. Of course for current judicial nominations, we’re mostly looking at those who graduated ~ 20-30 years ago.
At Harvard Law School, the biggest group on campus was the Federalist Society. Of course, that is because the liberals had divided themselves up into many other groups.
As an empirical matter, there are a lot of conservatives at "top" law schools. I put the word "top" in quotes because I am believe that the law is the law no matter where you learn it.
I'm sure there are many black women in the federalist society to choose from
None of whom will be picked by Biden. That is a certainty.
And yet Republicans have managed to put forth excellent candidates. Of Trump's three nominations, two potentially can be great candidates, and one is pretty good. Of course, Trump has nothing to do with it, he farmed out the job to the Federalist Society, and then took the credit. Which is classic Trump.
Perhaps swimming against the intelletual tide is a selector for excellence. Shows independent thought.
"And yet Republicans have managed to put forth excellent candidates."
So what you're saying is that artificially narrowing the available candidates does not prevent them from being excellent. We agree, then: Limiting a nomination to a black woman isn't a problem, for the same reason that selection based on judicial philosophy isn't a problem.
Keep deluding yourself.
The Federalist Society is devoted to promoting a particular judicial philosophy. Among other things, it seeks out those with excellence who can then be promoted to positions of influence. Not only SCOTUS (which is a very small group) but lower court judges. That kind of selection tends to sift out those with significant ability.
While racial selection does not.
But keep the identity politics. As I said, it handicaps your side.
Did you fail to understand the point, or decide not to try to address it?
I did address it. Try reading it again.
"So what you're saying is that artificially narrowing the available candidates does not prevent them from being excellent. "
You did not respond to that point, you bigoted loser. I make it a toss-up between failure to comprehend and desire to dodge.
Yawn. Keep banging the table. It's what people who have neither law nor facts do.
Keep yawning. That makes it a bit easier for guys like me to continue to shove progress down your bigoted, whining, powerless, disaffected throat.
On behalf of the culture war winners, I thank you and the other losers for your compliance, Bored Lawyer.
Leaving aside the gratuitous insults, he is correct that you dodged Drewski's excellent point. All you did is make some unproven assertions that the narrowing you favor is better than the narrowing someone else may favor. But it's not the narrowing itself that is the problem, as you and many others have asserted in bad faith.
Gratuitous?
Pshaw!
I mean every syllable with respect to better Americans (reasoning, educated, inclusive, modern, accomplished, liberal-libertarian) continuing to shove our national progress down the throats of our culture war's losers (intolerant, ignorant, superstitious, backwater).
More than five decades of observation and momentum, coupled with predictable conditions and prospects, support my expectation.
On the one hand, if you limit yourself to movement conservatives, there will be plenty of excellent, intelllectual choices. And on the other hand, if you limit yourself to black women, there won't be. That only works if "movement conservatives" are more likely to be excellent, intellectual choices. In a non-partisan, unbiased world, I think not.
At some point, these right-wing bigots get painted into corners they can't handle.
I like watching them flail. Mostly because I don't like old-timey bigots.
Do I have to spell it out for you?
First of all, the parameters are NOT the general population. Whoever it is, has to be (a) between 40 to 60; (b) a lawyer and (c) went to a top law school, most probably Harvard or Yale, although there are another half a dozen schools which might qualify.
Even statistically, there are many more Federalist Society members who fit those criteria than black women.
Apart from that, the self-selection process for being a Federal Society member is very different from being a black woman, which one is born to without any choice or effort. Most people go to law school as a ticket to a profession. It is only a minority -- a more dedicated minority -- that is interested in any kind of ideological advocacy, right or left. So if one is a member of the Federalist Society , that makes it more likely that one has talent and dedication than merely one being of a certain sex and race.
Perhaps there are many more "movement conservatives" than black women who meet the basic criteria (your "a" through "c"). I'm skeptical.
That being said, it struck me your main point was the Federalist society's screening is more likely to produce excellent, intellectual choices because that is a criteria they focus on. I'm not persuaded, instead believing they focus on "movement conservatives" dedicated to specific outcomes.
I made both points. I don't think the Federalist Society screens anyone, other than perhaps being a law student. It's self-selection. You need a certain level of motivation and intellectual engagement to join which you don't need to be a black woman.
I agree movement conservatives are motivated to achieving desired outcomes. I'm skeptical as to what it says about intellectual engagement, but almost certain it says nothing about intellectual excellence.
Ah, so your problem is that you believe that Biden will ignore ability and philosophy and select names out of a hat.
Try reading what I posted above. Biden's number one criterion is a black woman. Within that limitation, his cabal will try to choose the most qualified they can, but that will limit their chances of finding someone who will be a great justice, let alone an intellectual giant like Brennan or Scalia.
Cabal?
Anyhow - you're arguing based on the thin reed that a 'great justice' is predictable at all. To the point that I would not imagine 'potential for greatness' is even in the mix of selection criteria.
Merriam Webster defines cabal as "a small group of people who work together secretly." Seems to fit the bill. I doubt Biden is capable of distinguishing between a Supreme Court justice and a dog catcher, other than one wears a black robe and one runs around with a net.
You are accurate as far as Biden and his handlers are concerned.
Under Trump, these things were farmed out to the Federalist Society. Ideology certainly was a major criterion, as was resume. But they were also looking for intellectual heft. And, IMO, they succeded in two out of the three Trump nominations. The third was a deal to get Kennedy to retire, so there had to be some compromise there. That's no guarantee that any of them will be great justices. But far more likely than the one's Biden has to pick from. Or Obama, for that matter. The only one of Obama's that might have a chance is Kagan, the other two were mediocre.
Your ability to totally dismiss Sotomayor and Garland, and only give some chance of greatness to Kagan compared to much better chances to Gorsuch, Barrett and Kavanaugh is astonishingly cocky. Even distinguishing who has intellectual heft is beyond my pay grade (with the noted exception of Harriet Miers).
God you are stupid. The federalist society limitation is one of perspective only with nothing limiting for other relevant factors. Biden's "Black woman" requirement is a limit by skin tone in addition to whatever perspective limitation they'd find acceptable. So assuming the relative perspective pools are near parity on size then the further racial limitation makes Biden's options more likely to not be the best within his acceptable pool.
" Perhaps swimming against the intelletual tide is a selector for excellence. "
"swimming against the intellectual tide" seems a sketchy way to say "bigoted, superstitious, backward culture war losers."
Empty slogans seems an accurate way of describing most of your posts. Try to engage the brain sometimes.
That you dislike my descriptions of conservatives does not make them empty. Feel free to make a case against
superstitious
gay-bashers
backward
backwater
(race-targeting) vote suppressors
culture war losers
obsolete
misogynists
backwater
xenophobes
Muslim-haters
disaffected
gullible
racist
Good luck, clingers!
" he farmed out the job to the Federalist Society, and then took the credit"
Presidents normally delegate the job to someone else. Do you seriously think they personally do the research required to determine who to nominate? They then take the credit, as they should. In the end it's still the President's decision. Whether you approve of the process or not is irrelevant.
That is right, Artie. Almost all lawyers are Democrats, the party of big government, lawyer jobs via crime, quack, inscrutable regulation, and worthless, government control. They are the enemy of freedom and of prosperity. They must be crushed to save our nation. You are a liberal, no? Do the right thing. Resign, so a diverse can replace you. Stop yacking, start acting on your beliefs.
They don't care a whit about geting an intellectual giant. They'd be happy with a drooling idiot as long as that idiot voted the way they want.
Any drooling idiot would represent a major upgrade compared to the Ivy indoctrinated scum now on the Court.
Holmes, Brennan and Scalia were "intellectual giants"? Holmes was a fine wordsmith, so all law students read some of his opinions, but hardly an intellectual giant. Brennan was influential in his day, but he hardly changed anyone's mind with the cogency of his analysis; he was just on "the right side of history" for some. Yes, Scalia was brilliant, and perhaps (perhaps) his brilliance swung more justices to his side than against it; hard to say.
Scalia was just another wordsmith.
It's something of an article of faith that, above some minimum level of qualification, all candidates are interchangeable in terms of qualifications, and so you can start choosing on some basis other than merit without merit suffering.
It's just an article of faith, there's no basis for thinking that.
This merit fantasy (note the people pushing this also usually hate the idea of civil service rules!), for SCOTUS judges is particularly interesting as an empirical things. What merit boxes did Hugo Black, who was pretty influential, check? O'Connor? Thomas?
So, you have a basis for thinking that everybody with some minimal qualification is interchangeable on the merit metric? I'd like to hear that basis.
I think in part if you don't understand the position being applied for you will then understand what counts as 'merit.'
Was Hugo Black a failure on 'SCOTUS merit?'
It's almost like you're saying 'Brady is obviously an affirmative action pick, his pre-NFL metrics were terrible!'
So, you're instead claiming that lack of a Y chromosome and presence of melanin count as "merit"?
Those features are associated with underperformance for the past 600 years.
It's something of an article of faith that, above some minimum level of qualification, all candidates are interchangeable in terms of qualifications, and so you can start choosing on some basis other than merit without merit suffering.
It's just an article of faith, there's no basis for thinking that.
I think you make two mistakes.
First, "qualifications," however measured, are not the same thing as ability. Imagine two potential nominees with identical resumes, except that one has, say, an extra year of serving as a judge. That might make that candidate "better-qualified," - experience counts, after all - but it says zip about respective ability.
Second, you implicitly assume that "qualifications" - define it as "probability of becoming a giant" - is an objectively measurable quantity.
It isn't, or at least it's not a quantity that is precisely measurable beyond some very rough approximation that is not going to help you choose among a number of good candidates.
Why is a SCOTUS clerk a qualification?
No reason, probably, except that it indicates the candidate is a member of the group of "those lots of people think would make good Justices."
I don't really agree with that.
I presume it lets you hit the ground running, in terms of SCOTUS idiosyncrasies.
They are the people who study 80 hours a week, and don't know anything, except book learning.
I'm sure it would be unbelievably relieving for a typical institutional client to understand that instead of all this silly goose on-point experience and record stuff, the only due diligence they need is to look at an attorney's clerkship and age and then just hire the cheapest one they can find. Presto!
...Do you know how law firms work? Do you think clients hire based on associate resumes or something?
Just a wee bit, yes. And apparently a lot more than you.
Sometimes, yes. But far more often the partners'.
But zooming back out, it's more than a bit bizarre that you would think of associates as being the proper parallel for candidates for Supreme Court Justice....
The difference you are failing to account for is that no Justice candidate has yet been a Justice.
The parallel to an experienced lawyer acting as an experienced lawyer is a bad one.
Many clients hire based on who their friends are in the firm, with little regard to ability.
Right - a partner with the network to bring in clients is the key criterion of merit I've seen.
"Wrong, because we are dealing with 1 opening in which even by the most restrictive qualification (serving as a SCOTUS clerk and being 40-60 years of age) hundreds are equally qualified."
You're suggesting that you could come up with a list of hundreds of candidates where I couldn't come up with a good reason why, say, candidate 53 is more qualified than candidate 267?
That seems... unlikely.
You're suggesting that you could come up with a list of hundreds of candidates where I couldn't come up with a good reason why, say, candidate 53 is more qualified than candidate 267?
That seems... unlikely.
Step 1: what does 'more qualified' mean?
"Step 1: what does 'more qualified' mean?"
Whatever the person making the appointment wants.
If there is no objective standard, then there is no objective ranking.
Which makes me wonder why you think there is any issue.
All lawyers are lesser, dipshits. Any differences between them are trivial and tiny once indoctrinated into the criminal cult enterprise after passing 1L. They are lesser than Life Skills students learning to eat with a spoon.
Your toxic profession is riddled with supernatural beliefs, with trash rules and beliefs. Its output is rent seeking and toxic garbage. Every self stated goal of every law subject is in utter failure. Its sole validation are by men with guns.
No lawyer should ever be allowed to sit on any bench, in any legislature, nor hold any responsible position in the executive.
"Qualified" is an obviously ridiculous standard. The only qualification is to be chosen and confirmed.
Biden could nominate a 5-year old and the kid would be "qualified" upon being confirmed and sworn in.
Five year old people have a good sense of morality and of fairness. All lawyers are inferior being only interested in the rent.
If Biden has the right to publicly vow worldwide that he will pick only a black woman for Supreme Court Justice and be praised as a hero for it I think Joe Blow should have the right to also publicly state they will only pick fill in the blank demographic white/black/woman/man for a grocery clerk or cashier. Is that such a crazy far right notion?
Yes.
https://reason.com/volokh/2022/01/29/appointing-justices-based-on-race-sex-or-religion/
Just to be explcit,
the translation of EV's explanation in this case is that black women represent the most reliable of all of the Dem party's voting blocks.
Clearly Srinivasan's ethnic group is not nearly as important.
That is actually not clear at all. Indian Americans are a less reliable voting bloc, making them perhaps more viable.
This was a political move, sure, but don't pretend it's pure identity politics, any more than Trump promising to appoint a woman is. Or all the other examples of Republicans past you haven't managed to attack.
S_O,
I am not attacking Biden.
I am identifying patronage for what it is. I learned about that under Richard J. Daley. Actually I believe in the patronage system.
"less reliable voting bloc, making them perhaps more viable.ess reliable voting bloc, making them perhaps more viable."
You're wrong; you just don't understand how patronage works.
So, don't tell me about Republicans I did not attack. When they can, the play the same game
S_O,
Just to make matters more obvious for you.
They win the nomination for him.
They won the election for him.
They won the US Senate for him.
He owes them this reward.
It's his choice, no one else's
I disagree with you that nominating Justices is a pure patronage calculation.
You are welcome to disagree, but you added the word "pure." One thing Biden is not is "pure."
Still patronage is still a mainstay of politics. on't be so naive.
Not entirely. Eugene also said, "the appointments were also endorsed by many on the theory that they were good for the country."
Why did we have a Jewish and a Catholic seat? Certainly one reason was the president and his party wanted to curry favor with a voting bloc. But additionally, there was a well-founded belief you needed the seat as a counter to on-going bias against Jews and Catholics that would result in them being perpetually underrepresented. We no longer have those seats because the bias went away (when Justice Stevens retired, there were no Protestants on the Court). Hopefully, that will happen along racial lines someday (and perhaps it already has for sex). But, not yet.
Ar you kidding me? The current Court is biased against blacks?
Well, just Thomas is as far as we know
I don't know about that. Shelby County v. Holder is this century's Korematsu.
In recent history, the selection of justices has likely been biased against blacks.
You will never get the bigots who produce or follow this blog to acknowledge that.
Kruger and Srinivasan have the same career except one went to the DC Circuit and one went to the California Supreme Court.
Academics and inside-the-beltway lawyers tend to elevate the DC Circuit because of its prominence in national political disputes and because it’s a feeder for future Supreme Court justices and clerks. That’s why Srinivasan has “made a name for himself” and she hasn’t.
People, including legal elites and political media don’t pay as much attention to state supreme courts even though 1) they’re actually a court of last resort on many issues 2) can be much more influential in the long run. I’d say that California Supreme Court has much more influence over much more people, both as a binding court and as a persuasive one than the DC Circuit. All the big cases in DC go to SCOTUS anyway, whereas they’re not going to be taking an influential California case on tort law that might change the game for a lot of people.
So I think some of this “Sri Srinivasan is more prominent” stuff is based on elite biases about which institutions are important.
Oh and Kruger was EiC of YLJ. Sri didn’t manage that (neither did any other current justice or floated candidate).
"EiC of YLJ"
A bit of professional snobbery.
However, Kruger would be a perfectly acceptable pick.
Indeed. But it’s the sort of crap these people care about so when they say someone is “objectively” better you can remind them if they fact.
Will do.
I often complain that "Law Review"is a poor excuse for peer reviewed journals
Law reviews are a total scam. I have read some in my area of the law that are complete garbage. And, if I understand correctly, the "peers" doing the "reviewing" are law studfents, which makes them worth even less.
You seem to agree that the law review system is ridiculous. Imagine a surgery journal or a bridge engineering journal edited by second year med students, or masters students in engineering. They don't know shit. They will not begin to know enough for 5 years after entering the profession and making a 1000 mistakes. If these journals are about advancing knowledge of the subject, they are in failure.
That tradition, lawyer dipshits, was started by an alcoholic Harvard Law School Dean. Too lazy and too impaired to do his job, he decided to prank the students. It is a great honor to do my work for me.
Don't trust the scholarship, trust this one guy on the Internet!
Like it or not, a lot of the legal theories now in Supreme Court cases started in law reviews. You thinking you're smarter than them based on 'having read some' is just you.
As for students picking the articles, not sure how that's measurably worse than peer review in this area.
I used to be one of them, and in my experience the problem wasn't lack of intelligence or knowledge, but of perspective. Too many articles got selected because the subject matter appealed to 20-somethings. Too much Con. Law, and of those articles, too much amateur political philosophy or law office history masquerading as law. Too little humble, useful doctrinal analysis of real areas of law. Too much amateur economics in real-world subjects. I'm constantly surprised that as much good stuff gets published as it does.
Now that kind of systematic bias I can believe. Not a general issue of quality, like BL seems to think, but a bias towards 'sexiness.' Which peer review also has, albeit less so.
I know there are some peer reviewed journals, but they're not super highly read.
But yeah, a 'statutory analysis' law review would not go astray.
Let's say Kruger is found the best qualified choice and offered the position and given her qualifications she agrees to accept conditional upon a statement along the lines "Judge Kruger has proven credentials and experience and as a multi ethnic individual with progressive views she does not categorize herself as a "Black candidate." Would the Biden team agree?
I'd imagine so, probably in a heartbeat. It really doesn't matter what she "categorizes herself as" -- Biden would still get the headline. And Kruger's statement would pass the news cycle quickly even if it gets there in the first place.
What percentage of Americans are Federaliat Society members? What percentage of lawyers?
Thank goodness conservatives tend to lack the self-awareness that would disincline them to share their views involving race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and immigration in public.
Two other thoughts:
(1) Kruger would come from a state supreme court. That is a plus in my mind, as the SCOTUS bench is almost exclusively alumni of federal appeals courts.
(2) There is an element of age discrimination here. The three top candidates mentioned for Biden to replace Breyer are, respectively, 51, 45 and 55. Seems like if you are over mid -50s, they will not even consider you. I understand why that is the case, but it is worth noting that such would be illegal in any usual employment context.
it is worth noting that such would be illegal in any usual employment context.
Not really, no.
Really? Try posting a "help wanted" ad with an explicit "those over 50 will not be considered" and see how fast your sorry ass will be dragged to court.
It's not really worth noting, is what I meant.
You're entitled to your opinion, however wrong it is.
You think age discrimination in Court appointments is an injustice or in any other way an issue worth bringing up?
Because I'm not seeing it at all. Seems more like grasping at straws to attack the latest nomination process when thusfar you've not got a lot to work with.
You don't think discrimination is bad? Well color me shocked.
Age discrimination is actually rational at the limits, so I don't object to it. It actually makes sense not to nominate somebody who will have to be replaced soon because they're very old, and to not nominate somebody who's very young on account of their lack of experience.
Rules don’t apply for democrats. If you point out their hypocrisy, they’ll call you racist for believing in rules.
It's cute how the OP still thinks justices are chosen for their legal abilities. Mostly it does not matter. If a potted plant were a reliable leftist, the votes would not be much different than the smartest leftist jurist. For the most part, any reliable vote for the living constitution theory is good enough, so might as well make it count for something.
You probably shouldn’t refer to Slow Joe as a potted plant.
Too close to the truth.
I presume the right is has more integrity in your eyes?
Reliability is a great example, actually. It's a threshold after which it's pretty hard to tell the difference between different candidates. So it's okay to look at other stuff once a candidate is past that threshold.
The best part of this excellent post is the observation that qualifications for a Justice of the Supreme Court are not objective, they are subjective. And the point that should also be made is that rarely is the most qualified candidate chosen, in fact the most qualified candidate is probably never chosen, since the most qualified candidate cannot be identified and given the large pool of qualified candidates it is very unlikely the most qualified is the one chosen.
Let's look at what is almost certainly the worst case where an unqualified candidate was chosen for political and racial purposes. Clarence Thomas. This man had nothing on his resume to suggest any appointment to the bench of any court, much less the Supreme Court. His only qualification was that he was a Black Conservative attorney, an individual whose complete advancement in life was because of his race and his political affiliation.
Thomas has never authoried a critical opinion. In fact while it cannot be proven many of us are certain that as each new Chief Justice takes to the Court, he finds a note that says "Don't give Clarence a major opinion, he does not know what he is talking about". And yet, because he rules only on the conservative side, he is immune from criticism by almost all who condemn Biden for limiting his selection to a specific group, just as Reagan is immune by the same individual for his almost similar declaration that he would select a woman for the Court.
Historically the Court appointments have been made with bias and prejudice. Presidents of all political persuasions have limited the pool to white males, and until the 20th century to white Christian males. Given this history, diversity on the Court is a noble goal.
" in fact the most qualified candidate is probably never chosen, "
Many instances of that as Richard Posner should have been selected many times over.
Correct. Contrary to my post Posner was obviously the most qualified candidate, so obviously that he could never be chosen.
Clarence Thomas. This man had nothing on his resume to suggest any appointment to the bench of any court, much less the Supreme Court
And yet, I'd argue he became the best and clearest statutory analyst on the Court. Rather proving how much of a crapshoot predicting performance is.
It's actually a lot fewer than 7%; Black women may be 7% of the general population, but the general population are NOT the candidate pool for Supreme court nominations. Existing judges are.
6.8% of circuit court judges are "non-white" women, but Biden specified black, not non-white.
4.4% of circuit court judges are black women. But, again, this overstates the candidate pool.
Realistically, the candidate pool would actually be something like, "Extremely left-wing black woman judges with plausible deniability concerning their radicalism". Who knows, maybe a half dozen to a dozen, all told.
What percentage of SCOTUS judges have been black women in its over two centuries history?
Totally and completely irrelevant. The first black woman judge was Jane Matilda Bolin, who joined the bench in 1939. Prior to that it was basically impossible for any President to have nominated a black woman to the supreme court. And even after she became a judge, black women were a tiny fraction of the judiciary until recently, so, why would you expect them to end up on the Court? How many Aleutian SCOTUS judges have there been in over 2 centuries history?
Also irrelevant because lack of a Y chromosome, and an abundance of melanin, are not exactly measures of judicial competence.
Why is this irrelevant, other than to note 'yes, bigotry kept black women off the bench for the vast majority of our history.' Biden looks at that and says, 'I'm going to address that, we have some people in this hitherto shut out for terrible reasons who are obviously qualified, I'm going to correct that.'
Your answer to bigotry is to bigot in the opposite direction for a while? Where the pivot to 'diversity' and the total lack of interest in men being under-represented in college reveals that 'while' to be forever?
You beg the question that selecting based on diversity is bigotry like excluding based on nonwhite maleness is.
As has been discussed with you many times, there are plenty of nonbigoted reasons why you'd want to reach beyond white guys:
1) Introducing novel points of view based on experience with the law's interaction with race and gender
2) Representation/inspiration to the public
3) Reperatory based on the long history of exclusion
You may not think these are good reasons, but that doesn't mean you get to declare people who think they are good reasons to be bigots.
1) Race is a terrible proxy for novel points of view. If you want novel points of view, search for them directly.
2) But it doesn't matter that race is a terrible proxy for novel points of view, because you've just admitted that it's not a proxy for anything, you're literally picking on the basis of race to be picking on the basis of race. But, the Supreme court isn't a representative institution, that would be Congress.
3) Setting aside that the notion of reparations after the guilty parties and the offended against are already dead makes no sense, you don't do reparations by benefiting somebody who wasn't harmed. You're back to using collective notions here, where it doesn't matter if the benefit accrues to a person actually harmed, or at the cost of a person who actually harmed, just that the beneficiary and fall guy look right.
It's this grounding in racial collectivism that is the problem with all these rationalizations for racially discriminating, whether the 'bad' sort, or the sort that claims not to be bad. Justice is inherently individual in nature, you can't effectuate it on the basis of gross characteristics, ignoring individual histories.
" Totally and completely irrelevant. "
To an autistic right-wing bigot, sure!
"Black women may be 7% of the general population"
But they are the 7% than can most reliably be counted on to vote fr and work for Democrats.
Hence they pull far more than their weight
Reliability actually incentivizes people to take you for granted. IOW pull *less* weight, as a voting bloc.
What's actually going on here is that plenty of people in the Democratic coalition *beyond black women* are down for a pick like this.
Your narrative blinded you to a pretty clear reality, even just reading the comments here.
MY friend, it is who who have no eyes. I worked for a US Senator (D) for 6 years. I have a pretty good idea how things are seen.
You're both right, in different contexts: Being reliable gets you taken for granted as a voter, because as a voter, all that's wanted from you is that vote, and if you're reliable, they don't have to do anything for it.
Being reliable gets you jobs where the position can exercise discretion, because it's anticipated that you'll exercise it in a reliable manner.
Probably far less than 1% of all black women judges, as they’d have to have passed one federal or state Senate confirmation, along with a background check, to even be considered.
Biden’s team wouldn’t consider someone who hasn’t gotten a Republican vote in the past, so they can point to it and say “See? If you want to claim that you’re consistent, you have to vote for her now!”
They also wouldn’t pick someone outside of the courts, because they want someone with a track record of judicial activism, not someone with a brain.
They also wouldn’t consider someone who might have touched her boobs in public or something else stupid, because they’re afraid of being challenged by the media.
"Now the phrase "lesser black woman" is a bad way of putting this"
Jesus this is obtuseness on the edge of actual autism.
Apparently autistics are the only group defined by immutable characteristics that it's OK to insult.
Anyway, what's your disagreement with that statement; Would you claim the phrase was a good way of putting it?
I'm mocking 90% Shaprio saying this (he is literally under fire for being racist/sexist and uses this wording that makes even EV cringe!), but, yes, 10% EV for 'now,...this is a bad way of putting this...[let's skip along!]'.
EV cringes too easily, he has, by osmosis, and a failure to expressly reject them, internalized the left's values, though he hasn't yet fully arrived at their conclusions. (That will come in time, we've been watching his gradual evolution here.)
"Objectively best pick for Biden is Sri Srinivasan, who is solid prog & v smart. Even has identity politics benefit of being first Asian (Indian) American. But alas doesn't fit into the latest intersectionality hierarchy so we'll get lesser black woman."
The meaning of the statement is clear: Since the 'objectively best' pick is Sri Srinivansan, (You don't have to agree with his evaluation to understand what he wrote.) any other pick must be lesser. But, because of Biden's racial/gender quota, we'll get a black woman, who will be lesser, not because she's a black woman, but because she's not Sri Srinivansan.
The statement was perfectly clear, and easily parsed, and not the slightest bit racist against black women, (Though racist in the sense of thinking being the first Asian (Indian) American actually mattered.) but was somewhat unartful only in the sense that it lent itself to being deliberately misconstrued by a hostile reader.
It was stupid of Shapiro to forget, even for a moment, that the left would pounce on any statement which could even implausibly be interpreted as implying something racist. To forget that he was negotiating a verbal field of landmines.
To forget that the revolution eats its own, and he WAS on the menu if he made the slightest misstep.
" Apparently autistics are the only group defined by immutable characteristics that it's OK to insult. "
It is autistic to observe that some people lack interpersonal skills and discernment, tend to say dumb things, and seem generally antisocial and disaffected -- and that autistic people tend to occupy that category?
You're so eager to insult autistics that you managed to make no sense.
You don't think it's a bad way of putting it?
I think they’re suggesting “bad way of putting it” is a comical understatement that is almost willfully blind to all the problems with the statement.
Nope.
It's quite a reasonable characterization of the situation, actually. To any fair minded person, at least.
It means what he said was indeed "bad," but that's only because he didn't "put it" the way he intended...see how that works?
Intent matters a lot (progressive histrionics notwithstanding).
Weird. I’m always being told by conservative lawyers that we can only discern intent from the text itself.
Nice try, but the better analogy would be to mens rea - since you're seeking individualized accountability.
" It's quite a reasonable characterization of the situation, actually. "
From the perspective of a bigoted culture war loser attracted to a White, male, right-wing blog, perhaps.
LOL that any departure from hard-line progressive orthodoxy is "right wing."
Mainstream conservative intellectuals are pretty unified on this. https://www.nationalreview.com/2022/01/dont-fire-ilya-shapiro
But they are lesser. For the past 600 years, all jurisdictions governed by them have become or been shitholes. Prove me wrong with an exception since Mansa Mousa. And, lawyer dipshit, all -isms are folk statistics, mostly true, most of the time. Racism is no exception. If you trust your finances to a black guy, and hire a Jew for your professional basketball team, you deserve the consequences. Now, as a dipshit, you will begin to name great black financiers, and Jewish basketball players. You will not run out of fingers, whereas has the list of the obverse has 1000's in it.
This is why the UCLA law dean keeps part of every day's calendar available for issuing an apology for something Prof. Volokh has said or done.
You seriously can't blame EV for that...
Perhaps you'd like to make a case that he's missing something. (I happen to view "bad way of putting this" as a perfectly reasonable assessment, but I'd be open to hearing out another perspective...)
But please don't gaslight folks with the notion that your view is somehow so blatantly obvious that you don't even need to explain it.
That's not gaslighting.
Took me a minute, but I just got it. Good one!
If a college was discovered to never have had a conservative faculty member even though their student body was 7% (but as high as 10% historically) conservative, and the President vowed to hire a conservative faculty member as a result to this information would people feel here have the same position?
I do not believe in affirmative action for ideas.
On the other hand, the recent trend among liberals of being intolerant towards dissent and their tendency to embrace cancel culture is very bad.
The point of a university is not to teach students what to think, but to equip them with tools to help them to think for themselves.
The amount of group-think we see based on "social justice" in universities is disappointing. The embrace of cancel culture by many universities is problematic. Bad ideas are not eliminated through censorship and cancellation, but instead by free and open debate.
What do you think of conservative-controlled campuses?
I think that any campus ought to vigorously debate ideas without engaging in censorship or trying to shame people out of their opinions as opposed to using debate, logic, and persuasion.
I realize that not everyone else shares my values. On both the left and the right.
You do not respect conservative-controlled campuses? Are you sure you want to state that at this blog?
"ad ideas are not eliminated through censorship and cancellation, but instead by free and open debate."
That's an empirical claim. How's that working out?
It is actually a normative claim, but I made it sound like an empirical.
Sure, people CAN eliminate dissent through force if they want to. Just look at Communist China or Nazi Germany as examples that show that these tactics can be quite effective.
In a free society, such tactics are absolutely unacceptable.
"In a free society, such tactics are absolutely unacceptable."
I agree. Queen Amalthea and her ilk don't. (They don't like our free society and want to "transform" it. Just listen to what they say; they're quite open about it.)
Yep, and that's why when the shakeout comes her and her ilk will be the first ones lined up against a wall.
Ed Grinberg's comments might begin to make sense in a world in which conservatives didn't turn every campus they control into a censorship-shackled, nonsense-teaching, academic freedom-rejecting, dogma-enforcing, science-suppressing, fourth-tier (or unranked) yahoo farm.
It's semi-empirical; Force allows you to suppress ideas irrespective of their truth or merit.
Free debate is harder on false ideas than true ones, because you're free to expose that falsity.
So, while it's certainly possible for false ideas to prevail for a while in free debate, (Because we're humans, and not impartial or immune to logical fallacies.) admitting the use of force makes it easier for false ideas to prevail.
Thus it makes sense to assume that anyone who advocates suppressing ideas by force isn't really confident that the ideas they're suppressing are wrong. And even if they do think that, they're objectively leveling the playing field for falsity.
These guys complain incessantly about strong schools’ disinclination to hire movement conservatives. They don’t say much about the campuses whose faculties are dominated by superstitious conservatives.
I, on the other hand, am happy to criticize anyone and everyone.
Artie Poo, ironically a believer in every proggie fairy tale that exists, casting aspersions on other beliefs, loooooooool.
Artie was banned by Prof. Volokh for making fun of conservatives.
I am Arthur.
You sound like a fairy tale-believing, bigoted conservative.
You're on here daily making gratuitous personal attacks, and you're going to whine about being banned?
I mean, seriously, if this blog had a limit of 1000 insulting personal attacks per month before banning, you'd hit that.
Yes.
I think floating out there whenever is there is a conversation about "best" is the critical but often skipped question of "best for what purpose."
Ilya Shapiro seems to be skipping this part of the analysis. He is suggesting that Sri Srinivasan is "better" than whomever Biden will pick. But he doesn't exactly say why. Will Srinivasan write more "persuasive" opinions? Well, some opinions I find persuasive, others do not. And some opinions they find persuasive, I do not. It is really unlikely that "everyone" would find Srinivasan's opinions more "persuasive" than whomever Biden decides to pick.
Overall, I do not think the criticism that Biden won't pick the "best person" if he uses race and gender as a controlling to be a persuasive objection.
I still think that Biden should eliminate candidates based on race and gender, like he is planning on doing. But that is because I do not believe that racial discrimination is a good idea, independent of the outcome in terms of whether it results in the "best" decisions.
I should note that EV uses the example of Earl Warren. No one can deny that Warren was Chief Justice during a time when the Supreme Court made many landmark changes to the law. But, would the Court have still made these decisions (or similar) if Warren had not been appointed? No one can be sure. And for those who disagree with the landmark decisions during the Warren era, this wasn't a period of progress. Merely having "influence" isn't a measure of "best." One wants that influence to result in good outcomes. Stalin had a lot of influence in Russia and Hitler had a lot of influence in Germany.
I am in no way comparing Earl Warren to Stalin or Hitler. And I am not necessarily either in favor or against the landmark decisions made during the Warren era. But I am just illustrating the difficult that comes with the idea of choosing the "best" person for a position. First, you have to know what you want to accomplish. Second, you have to predict whether the particular appointment will most advance that goal. Both of these are difficult to determine. President usually probably do not have fully formed opinions on what outcomes they would like to see in the law. And even if they did, predicting whether a particular candidate will advance those outcomes is difficult (look at all of the complaining among conservatives about judicial appointments that ended up being "disappointing" in retrospect).
"I think floating out there whenever is there is a conversation about "best" is the critical but often skipped question of "best for what purpose.""
Precisely. Mostly unstated here is that the left and right in this country have radically disjoint notions of what the Supreme court is supposed to be doing. Anybody who was best for the left's goals would be utterly disqualified from the right's perspective, and visa versa.
While left-wing and right-wing politicians, (As distinct from ideologists.) have conceptually similar views of the job of the Court, (To advance their own policies, and impede the opposition's policies.) the ideologues have conceptually different ideas of the Court's purpose.
Best to impartially uphold the law as written, including the highest law of the land?
Or best to advance justice as understood by the left, regardless of what the law might unfortunately say?
The politicians' and ideologues' views of the matter on the right are conflicting, which I think would be why the right has a track record of being very frustrated with Supreme court nominees.
The views on the left are, while different in detail, are more in harmony. So the left has mostly been happy with their Supreme court picks, and are just frustrated that they happen not to be a majority.
A complete tautology, based on the myth that ideologues on the right are only interested in upholding the law as written, and not at all with getting the court to make decisions with which they agree. Both sides are equally guilty in this regard, politicians and ideologues alike.
What you're missing is that the right has an advantage here, in that the Constitution is, relative to today's ideologies, (As opposed to the situation 50-100 years ago...) a very conservative document. So today the right enjoys the luxury of mostly getting its way just from an honest reading of the document. While the left needs a very dishonest reading of it indeed to get its way.
It could have been the other way around, with a different constitution. At least in theory, though in terms of the historical context it was basically impossible, since a constitution that honestly aligned with the left's goals could never have been ratified. Heck, could not be ratified even today, which is why the left is so fond of 'living' constitutionalism.
I think it says more about a person willing to accept a nomination under these conditions than those making the conditions. You have to acknowledge from then on the primary reason you were chosen was not because of your proven ability.
Plus it just gets sillier when you put it into the context on, we are right back to that situation of white people, in this case a man, selecting when a minority is allowed to move up and does so by tipping the scales for them which infers they would not be able to otherwise.
Enjoy your asterisk
Man that’s real insulting to Clarence Thomas.
They've literally just heard these lines and have to say them.
Conservatives, in general, of course have a lot of trouble understanding what things like discrimination, bigotry, underrepresentation, etc., mean. It doesn't much occur to them unless it directly impacts them. But they hear these phrases, often tossed out against them, and their thought-directors have told them to toss them back in a certain way, and they dutifully do. On these threads you will literally see one of them toss one out, then people dispute it, there's no real rebuttall, and then lots more toss it out. It doesn't matter what's said about it because they really didn't understand it to begin with. Like a color-blind person who has been told there's a difference between colors X and Y they've heard it and know it's a thing, but they don't understand it. The difference is they then feel confident to toss it at their enemies because, well, their enemies are always tossing it at them. They don't really understand what their tossing other than to them it 'looks like' what others have tossed at them so very many times...
They're bigots in a world that has passed them by. They're superstitious in a world dominated by science and reason. They're disaffected, desperate, even delusional. They're conservatives.
Projection is a hell of a drug.
"Conservatives, in general, of course have a lot of trouble understanding what things like discrimination, bigotry, underrepresentation, etc., mean."
We actually understand them better, because we don't have to warp the definitions to excuse our own actions in that regard.
See, for instance, the ADL's new definition of "racism": "Racism: The marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people."
You don't need to categorically define away the least possibility of being racist against whites, unless you're concerned you might otherwise be accused of it.
I personally don't agree that racism requires a power imbalance, but neither do I think that definition is created specifically to cover for racism against whites.
Well, sure, it's also a cover for racism against Asians.
Brett, so your argument is that "the left" is warping definitions, and as proof cite something done by the ADL?
Let me guess: You're going to deny that the ADL is left-wing? And that such tendentious definitions of "racism" aren't endemic on the left?
Every recenr Supreme Court appointee has a cloud over their head and is of questionable legitimacy in the eyes of the people opposing the appointment.
What makes this any different?
Exactly. Washington chose William Cushing because he was from New England. That has nothing to do with his ability to do the job, so there is an asterisk next to his name. Poor Justice Cushing.
Tell it to Barrett.
I think Professor Volokh’s reasoning is flawed.
People who buy a lottery ticket based on a system that yields a single definite value for what lottery ticket to buy don’t have any better chance of buying the objectively best ticket than people who pick s lottery ticket to buy based on judging from a wide range of potential ticket numbers.
There of course is an unquestionably objectively best lottery ticket, the one that will win. We can be certain there is one. The problem, of course, is information. Neither systems nor judgment improve the chance of picking the objectively best ticket in advance.
It’s far less clear that there is an objectively best Supreme Court justice than that there is an objectively best lottery ticket. One big difference is that while everyone agrees on what the best lottery ticket is, once they know the lottery is cast, people disagree widely on the value of Supreme Justices wven long after they have left the court.
This tends to suggest that the question of who is the best Supreme Court justice has a subjective character. When people, expert and lay, widely dosagree, that’s a clue there’s a subjective element. That suggests there is no objectively best Supreme Court justice.
The odds of picking something that doesn’t exist are always 0, no matter what system people use to make the pick.
Well said. Supreme Court Justices aren't lottery tickets. As you say, what is "best" in a Supreme Court Justice is not objective. (Although, to be fair, they do have some of that flavor. Say you are a politician who knows what they want out of a Supreme Court Justice. Since that Justice has the power to vote however they want after being confirmed and since they are going to be serving long after you leave office, whether you get what you want has a lottery nature.)
"I think Professor Volokh’s reasoning is flawed."
"eople disagree widely on the value of Supreme Justices wven long after they have left the court."
"This tends to suggest that the question of who is the best Supreme Court justice has a subjective character. "
WTF? You're agreeing with EV it seems.
Professor Volokh’s argument starts from two premises: that there is an objectively best candidate, and the limitation to the people picked from has nothing to do with qualifications.
I focused on the first issue. It’s clear there is no objectively best candidate, so Professor Volokh’s logical argument, which is based on the assumption that one exists, is logically flawed.
One could easily attack the other premise. Does considering only law school graduates greatly reduce the chance of picking the best candidate? It too is a very small percentage of the total population.
“Second, I think it's also relevant here that the "objective" factors are really quite subjective.”
I think he’s throwing cold water on the objectivity concept. Maybe I misread?
I don't think you are right about EV's views. He wrote:
That indicates he likely understands that nature of your point.
One has to talk about what “good” means for the premises of Professor Volokh’s argument to be non-absurd.
If the function of the Supreme Court is to be a standing constitutional convention for a society whose government represents a federation of ethnic groups rather than (for example) a federation of states or individuals, then making sure each ethnic group in the federation gets a representative at the convention, and making sure the next ethnic group on the pecking list is the one picked from, may well be the best way to credential the conventioneers and replace them as the existing ones resign. In this case, a black female will unquestionably make the best black female conventioneer in much the way a South Carolinian will unquestionably make the best South Carolina legislator or district judge, or a US citizen will unquestionably make the best President.
Professor Volokh doubtless disagrees with viewing the US as a federation of ethnic groups and, to a lesser extent, the Supreme Court as a standing constitutional covention. But he makes an argument that doesn’t bother even to address the obvious positions that would totally falsify his argument. By not addressing them, his argument is short but sloppy. The “best” argument is an easy take-doen because there the idea that there’s a single objectively best person really is pretty absurd here, but there can be relatively good or bad candidates even if there is widespread disagreement about who’s best. But his claim that ethnic membership has nothing to do with who might be a good candidate can only convince people who already think that ethnic politics shouldn’t have anything to do with the matter.
It’s an essentially circular argument. It starts out assuming the thing he most needs to demonstrate in order to have an argument that has any value. If you assume ethnicity is irrelevant, you can prove focusing on it is counterproductive. Whoopdy big deal. What is assumed here is exactly the real source of the disagreement.
If I can simply assume I have a money tree in my house, I can easily prove I won’t have to work for a living. But do I in fact have one? That’s the real question.
I think one issue is you seem to be assuming that EV holds positions I am not sure he holds.
I think your overall point is solid. But where I would quibble is your assumption that EV isn't aware of the subjective nature of "best" in the context of judicial appointments. I think he was humoring the idea of there being an "objective best" early in his argument "for the sake of argument." If you look at the post, you see that EV put the word objectively in quotes the first time he uses it. Indicating that he likely understands the point you are making.
I am assuming that those having no problems with a President filtering out, without evaluating them on merit, all males and all non-blacks for a high-level appointment would also have no problems if Walmart announced that they were instigating a search for a new CEO (i.e., a high-level appointment) and stated that
The problem with your straw man is that it's stupid.
Prof. Volokh also explained in great detail his view of the difference between the two situations, in his earlier post.
Eugene explained it well in the previous post.
If the best candidate is, by definition, a black woman, then picking a black women will discard no inferior candidates.
The President determines the defining qualities of the best candidate, no one else gets a vote.
Now do it for when a President says only a white guy is qualified! I'm quite sure we get the same result, right?
In that case, we got Kavanaugh and Gorsuch. And Rehnquist and Alito. And . . . plenty of others in circumstances in which the president took the position (privately, to some degree) that the choice would be a White male.
When did the President make his primary qualification a white guy though for those nominations? (Answer - he didn't).
Of course, they've never needed to.
Which is kind of the point, and why your question is pretty dumb.
It's implicit, Jimmy. Electing a white male is the pat announcement whether said or unsaid
This give-and-take is interesting, maybe even enjoyable, but at the practical level this argument will advance (like our society) mostly as these conservative misogynists, racists, gay-bashers, immigrant-haters, Muslim-haters, and obsolete hayseeds take their stale, ugly, rejected thinking to the grave.
You can't reason with superstition, bigotry, or belligerent ignorance. It is pointless, sometimes even counterproductive, to try. And it is immoral to appease these clingers. The better course is to confront, disparage, and defeat them.
For an illustration, observe the most recent half-century of American progress.
You have created something that doesn't exist to justify your position. You are literally making shit up.
Jimmy, there are more rudimentary sites such as Newsmax that would treat you like a god if you would just go there
You can't honestly say he's wrong, though.
Now do it for when a President says only a white guy is qualified! I'm quite sure we get the same result, right?
One of the primary criteria is likely the effect on the electability of the president.
Saying only a white guy seems unlikely a positive factor.
I don't begrudge President Biden the opportunity to choose whom he will for SCOUTS. He announced his intentions during the primary season, just as Ronald Reagan said before the election that he would nominate a woman. Assuming a reasonable level of competence, which all of those mentioned to be under consideration for nomination have shown, President Biden should have wide latitude.
Elections have consequences. Thanks to the folks who in 2016 voted for Jill Stein and to Mitch McConnell playing Calvinball in the Senate, Donald Trump (the least competent president in modern history) got three SCOTUS nominations. So give Biden a break.
Your fly is open and your dick is hanging out. Diaper Joe can't remember what he had for lunch much less who is on his list of nominees, but no mean tweets. You idiots are hilariously predictable.
Very few people are arguing that Biden does not have the right to uphold his campaign promise to make a prejudiced nomination to the Supreme Court. We just question the optics and consequences of such a choice.
Well, we also question the ethics, but that aspect is overshadowed by the broader ethical question about whether a senile figurehead should be judged more or less responsible for ethical failings than the people behind the mask.
I love that this is the level of audience attracted by a right-wing blog operated by law professors.
I also like the point that this blog should disincline strong law schools to refrain from hiring more conservatives for faculty positions.
Doesn't really help the argument that affirmative action is only a "hand up" or "tie breaker" when race is being used as the primary qualification here.
Do you think this pick is indicative of affirmative action policies generally?
That is how the media seems to be billing it, using "diversity" rationale. But, yeah, not straight up affirmative action (although any more that is looking like just plain old discrimination).
This, though, is just pure racism and sexism.
" This, though, is just pure racism and sexism. "
Says the thoroughly racist, comprehensively sexist Jimmy the Dane.
I didn't realize 5G was so good you could get it under the bridge where AK lives....
I live in the American mainstream, Jimmy the Dane, perched at a comfortable spot that makes it easy to piss on ankle-nipping clingers for sport.
Open wider, Jimmy.
Jimmy, I still can't figure out how a civilian like yourself (with the concomitant faculties) is lurking around a blog for scholars
This is a blog by and for wingnuts. Don't let the scant academic veneer -- and misappropriated franchises of a few strong law schools -- obscure that point.
Pretty much. A fraction of institutions practicing AA can afford to be so attractive that they vacuum up all the minority candidates that are objectively qualified, too. That leaves the rest forced to achieve their quotas with whoever is left, and the reality of K-12 schooling results is that blacks aren't prepared for higher education in the same percentages as whites. Either you accept really high failure rates, or the standards have to be dropped.
Then the graduates go out into the business world, and the same reasoning applies.
You CAN'T legitimately have equal representation in higher education, AND inferior K-12 outcomes. K-12 has to be addressed FIRST. Logically, it doesn't work otherwise.
Unfortunately, relaxing standards to create the illusion of equal outcomes is always the easier path than achieving those outcomes. And too much of K-12 outcomes aren't under the control of the schools in the first place, but are dependent on parents. So it's a tough nut to crack, and tougher if you're committed to the notion that all cultures are equal.
You really have to stop making so much sense. The more progressive elements here are getting triggered and offended.
Nope
Clarence Thomas has been, by my judgement, the best important member of the federal government during my lifetime.
I accept his leadership in many ways, ways I deny to almost all other politicians.
I'm pretty sure sure that GHWB was not thinking like me when he nominated Thomas, but whatever criteria he was using, he selected the best.
Enjoy the rest of your life on the receding, obsolete fringe of American society, dwshelf, as better Americans continue to shape progress by disregarding your stale, ugly preferences.
Troll score D- Artie Poo, your material was stale years ago. Time to retire, sugar britches.
Eh?
Oh very... where do I start...
This is a really simple duty and Biden managed to mess even this up from the very beginning.
Of course the previous President did a stellar job, producing an agreeable list in consultation with legal experts long before he was even elected. No one had any doubts. Biden looks foolish in comparison.
Sorry, but your usual worthless contribution. You agree with Trump's pre-announced criteria, but disagree with Biden's. Yawn.
Yeah, thoughtful merit-based criteria are better that racist criteria. It's the difference between someone doing a good job and the worst possible job at an important Presidential duty.
Unprincipled individuals might not be able to tell the difference, I guess.
Defining employment criteria based on race has worked so well in the past. I can understand why you and others are so enamored with it.
Time for people who may be like Sri Srinivasan to look in the mirror, realize the person looking back at them will never be a black woman, and ditch the party where they’ll never be at the front of any line, no matter how good they are at anything.
Getting stomped by better people in the culture war seems to have made you cranky, Ben.
Which is nice.
Good to see you are still as relevant as a pile of hobo excrement in your heroine Granny Boxwine's bailiwick, Artie Poo.
My preferences have governed the improvement of America so long as either of us has been alive, migrant log picker. Precisely when do you expect right-wingers to become competitive in the American culture war?
Remember how liberals like to argue that X institution ought to "look like America" so we need quotas and stuff to do that?
Seems to me if you were going by that rationale African Americans are already properly represented on the court. There is one black justice and blacks are about 13% of the population. Pretty right on the money there. Seems to me if they cared about the excuse above (which they don't) Biden ought to be looking to put an Asian on the court. But, instead, clown world delivers this whole fun side show.
Now the phrase "lesser black woman" is a bad way of putting this, but it seems to me pretty clear that it was just a poorly chosen way of saying "less qualified black woman."
There is an additional aspect to this sorry spectacle here that I have not seen addressed in the comments. Namely, the extremely difficult position that the 'hand' of Professor Shapiro has put the CATO Institute (and Georgetown U). Professor Shapiro is not some 'stonod'; he is a legal luminary in constitutional law and well-versed in English. What I see here from Professor Shapiro is a brain-fart of truly epic proportions, and men in his position are paid not to make those kind of errors. The lack of common-sense before posting that tweet was astounding. Now when he is 'googled' by future students, potential CATO Institute donors, etc., this controversy will be close to the top. You think CATO and Georgetown U are happy at this prospect? How about we ask their respective Boards of Directors how happy they are?
There are errors one can make that cannot be easily (if ever) undone. Professor Shapiro should think long and hard about how helpful he will be to the institutions he voluntarily serves. From a management perspective, Professor Shapiro completely and utterly blew it. What is God's name was he thinking when he used the phrase 'lesser black woman' in any public tweet? Seriously, are you daft Professor Shapiro? Do you even give a last minute 'disaster check' before posting, or did you just 'assume' everyone would 'get it'? "lesser black woman"...are you nuts? There should have been a teeny-tiny part of your brain that said 'Danger Will Robinson' as your finger was about to left-click the mouse and you re-read the phrase "lesser black woman" in your tweet!
Professor Shapiro's appalling lack of common-sense judgment on his part is what makes me question his overall acumen and judgment, from a purely executive management perspective. Those are fair and legitimate grounds for critique and discipline....up to, and including dismissal.
Pragmatically, Professor Shapiro should first do no more harm!
In the real world, there can be an unjust outcome. It is a very close call to me whether Professor Shapiro is 'encouraged' to consider other options. It is his prominence, stature and influence that make it a very close call. Brain-farts simply should not happen at his level, period. That is executive management 101.
I choose to believe Professor Shapiro is an honorable, and decent man. I believe him when he says that immutable characteristics do not determine human worth. He is right about that and I share this belief. More important, that sentiment is reflected in his writings. Perhaps he has the innate human qualities and strength of personality to make some good come out of this. I hope so. Not sure he gets the chance to do that in his current positions.
One thing I would say to Professor Shapiro: Be careful of the measuring stick you use to publicly measure others for you yourself will be publicly measured by that same stick.
Shapiro didn't write anything the least bit racist.
What he did, was forget that he was walking through a verbal mine field, and that if he wrote anything that could easily be misconstrued by a hostile reader as racist, that IS how it would be misconstrued. And any attempt to explain what he'd obviously actually said would be shouted down.
There are really only two ways to respond to this reality. Either watch every word you say, and maybe just avoid topics that the left doesn't like people talking about. Or decide that you don't CARE if idiots accuse you of being a racist, because they're idiots, and not even well intentioned ones.
The very word "racism" is losing its sting, as more and more people pick the 2nd option.
Professor Shapiro is guilty of an epic brain-fart. Guess what? In the real world, epic brain-farts sometimes lead to undesired outcomes. That is reality for worker bees, and it is reality for C-suite execs as well.
The problem I see, from a purely executive management perspective, is he failed to exercise good judgment on what is clearly an 'own goal' and this does not help the organizations he serves. People at that level get paid to not make those kinds of errors. I choose to believe he has the innate human and personality qualities to make something good come out of this spectacle. But...
What I am less sure about is how the Boards of Directors of the CATO Institute and Georgetown U see it. But I suspect what I laid out above is very much a part of their thinking this weekend. Could you really blame them? They will let the public know in good time.
In the meantime, he should do no more harm. That matters a lot.
And as brain farts go, this was an extended, multi-syllable one. It wasn't just "lesser black woman." The stream of tweets included, for example, a Twitter poll for whether or not it's racist for Biden to nominate a black woman. That's a brain shart.
I cannot understand how Ilya Shapiro has not become a Volokh Conspirator yet. He may be roughly equidistant between Prof. Volokh (credentials, usually knowledgeable and disciplined enough to be guarded in public) and Prof. Blackman (well, you know) on the disaffected right-wing continuum.
And what's wrong with that? The latest Ipsos poll on the topic shows that even 54% of Democrats think Biden shouldn't have limited his choice this way.
Racial discrimination really is NOT popular with the general public, even with Democrats. That's why the attempt to reintroduce racial preferences in college admissions in California was defeated at the polls just a few years ago.
It's only among the 'elites' that deliberately discriminating on the basis of race is popular; It persists only because the people who approve of it are in a position to ignore public opinion on the subject.
"In the real world, epic brain-farts sometimes lead to undesired outcomes. That is reality for worker bees, and it is reality for C-suite execs as well."
This is a problem, IMO. We should work towards more grace for everyone, in general...
I do appreciate how you dive into the nuance and acknowledge he wasn't being malicious...and you seem to acknowledge that intent matters, at least to *some* extent and/or for at least some purposes.
However, I think that a poorly phrased statement with no ill will (i.e., "brain fart") should be something that we let folks simply apologize for and be forgiven.
______________________________________________________
"People at that level get paid to not make those kinds of errors."
Ya know, that really becomes a matter of degree...but even at the highest levels of any field I think there still needs to be *some* room for grace in the face of an acknowledged lapse in judgement.
On the broader notion of "brain farts" -- I've seen professional athletes (who make millions) on rare occasions make absent-minded mistakes that any child player knows not to make. Yet we all accept this, even at that level, so long as it's very rare for any particular individual.
Agree with your sentiments, Cheerio.
I've made plenty of brain-farts. Most were recoverable; a few were not.
Just like Peng Shuai should have shut up about being raped.
Didn't Ilya Shapiro know that totalitarians might be listening? How dare he say that anyone not as good as his choice for the best candidate might be a lesser candidate?
I guess I'll do you all a favor and explain how "diversity" is different from "affirmative action" since y'all don't seem to get it.
Affirmative action is a policy that aims to extend opportunities preferentially to underprivileged groups with the goal of counteracting those disparities.
Diversity is an observation that heterogeneous groups are more effective than homogeneous groups. In the context of race, it includes the premise that for multiple reasons, racial diversity correlates with viewpoint diversity.
So, like with Harvard admissions, you don't just look at the candidates in a vacuum. You look for candidates that fill gaps in the group.
Of course, I don't think Biden wasn't thinking about the political implications of promising to pick a black woman. But at face value, diversity isn't about picking minorities for the sake of picking minorities. It's about bringing as many different viewpoints to the conversation as possible. If there were no white guys on the court, a pro-diversity president would nominate a white guy, even though that would be anti-affirmative-action.
So if you're going to argue against diversity, you need to say which part you disagree with. Do you think homogeneous groups are just as good as heterogeneous ones? Or do you disagree that race is a good proxy? Or do you think the Constitution (or some other moral principle) bars us from seeking the benefits of diversity? Or something else?
What benefit does differences in skin color or genital shape bring to judging? How do you measure or prove that it does?
"Diversity" can be useful in circumstances where the varied attribute is directly relevant to the performance required for the job.
But notice that no one is arguing for "diversity" of height for the Justices - even though midgets and giants have different "lived experiences". No one is arguing for differences is criminal record, even though prison time is certainly a different "lived experience"!
The law thinks a lot about race, not so much about height. Some lived experiences are more relevant than others.
I, for one, would *love* a Justice with personal experience in our penal system. And I suspect many on the left would agree with me there.
The law thought even more about race during Jim Crow. We're trying to get to a society where the law thinks about race not at all, not a society where it is totally obsessed with race.
Like Sarcastr0, I'd love to see someone nominated with a "diverse" criminal record! I guess Kavanaugh almost counts. 😉
If you agree that viewpoint diversity is valuable (which seems obvious to me), the question is what makes race a good proxy for viewpoint. There are at least two.
One is the "lived experience" theme you mentioned. I don't know if you know anyone from a different race, but it's clear to me that my life and hence my outlook would have been pretty different if I were some other race. Since race runs in families, it tends to coincide with a person's cultural and situational context.
Another is that race is a signifier. It can represent a certain historical heritage, for instance, or certain cultural attitudes, modes of art, communication styles, etc. etc. Many people come to identify with those symbolic aspects of their race, and that helps shape their viewpoint.
Randal,
You make a strong argument that an Asian would be a more diverse pick.
But Joe doesn't owe them anything.
" What benefit does differences in skin color or genital shape bring to judging? "
Someone who has been the target of right-wing racism, conservative misogyny, superstitious gay-bashing, backwater xenophobia, Republican voter suppression, or the like would be in a better position to recognize its existence and consequences, and might be better positioned to understand or address it, for starters.
I don't expect the Volokh Conspirators or their target audience to apprehend this point.
"Diversity is an observation that heterogeneous groups are more effective than homogeneous groups. In the context of race, it includes the premise that for multiple reasons, racial diversity correlates with viewpoint diversity."
"Observation" is an interesting word, because it implies that what one 'observes' is objectively true, without having to actually defend that truth.
There are studies backing up said observation I'm told. I don't care because I think it's true based on my own experience anyway. Don't you?
(There certainly are some individuals who work best with other like-minded individuals. But those individuals generally aren't high performers anyway, owing to their closed-mindedness. It isn't the group you'd pick from to create an effective team.)
Diversity of thought can be useful, within limits. (You hit the limit when you can no longer agree about what you're trying to accomplish.)
Diversity of chromosomes and skin color makes a terrible proxy for diversity of thought.
I think you are deliberately dodging the obvious truth that it is the life experiences of these people with different chromosomes and skin color, based on society's response to such things, that contribute to diversity. These life experiences effect people's thought, so contribute to the diversity of thought you seem to value.
I think you're dodging the obvious truth that race and sex are also a terrible proxy for "different life experiences".
Sure, blacks are disproportionately represented in the lower economic brackets. Blacks in the judiciary? Probably not so much. There actually IS a black middle and upper class, and guess where the judges are coming from? Not the 'hood. (I withdraw this point if it can be demonstrated that a particular candidate actually DOES have such a life experience, rather than just being assumed to have it based on skin color.)
And to the extent their life experience is different, it sure as heck isn't the experience black judges of Thomas' age would have had. It's a life experience of being desperately sought after by institutions trying to fill racial quotas. Is that really a good thing in a Justice? I'm not so sure it is.
https://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/the-trouble-with-homogeneous-teams/
Realistically, it's more like limiting yourself to 3% of the applicant pool. Per this article, only 3% of federal judges are black women.
https://www.americanprogress.org/article/examining-demographic-compositions-u-s-circuit-district-courts/
What about, say, limiting your pool of SCOTUS picks to members of FedSoc? That group is overwhelmingly white, but I don't recall all this hand-wringing from conservatives when Trump pre-limited his picks to FedSoc members, or to those who had vowed to overturn Roe (the two are mostly synonymous), thus "reducing the applicant pool"
The bigoted, disaffected conservatives were too busy applauding to think about hand-wringing.
Actually, he didn't limit his picks to candidates who were FedSoc members. He limited them to candidates proposed by the Federalist Society.
Did they only recommend their own members? This is an empirical question, I await your proof that they did.
Great to see fans of an exceedingly White, strikingly male blog defending the remarkably White, odds-defyingly male judicial nomination record of the poltiical party of race-targeting voter suppression, while straining to reach the ankles of their betters, whose record is substantially better!
I think this post errs by misdiagnosing the issue. Here are the problems:
1. In order to make his argument, Shapiro needed to adopt a standard for SCOTUS nominee selection. The one he chose was "objectively best candidate." His argument fails from the start if he sets the standard at "meets the high bar needed to be nominated to SCOTUS." Shapiro is familar with this less demanding standard because it is the one he applied to the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett - who was, it must be said, nominated by a POTUS who at various times said he was 'saving her for Ginsburg' and stated ahead of her nomination that he was going to pick a woman. Barrett is a law professor who had barely seen the inside of a courtroom before her ppointment to the Seventh Circuit and she went to a lesser law school than most SCOTUS members. I find it difficult to believe that, among the field of potential nominees, she was objectively the best. (But by the alternative metric of, 'does she clear the bar?,' well, of course she does.)
2. Shapiro seems to apply a double standard to judging liberal vs conservative nominees. At least one and perhaps several of the named candidates under consideration by Biden have an objectively stronger track record than does Barrett, whom Shapiro supported. So he's applying different standard to liberal vs conservative selection or to black vs white selections.
3. But, at bottom, what Shapiro really got wrong was this: he denigrated Biden's eventual nominee as a lesser or less qualified choice on the basis of race and gender, before even knowing who the nominee was.
4. Can a Tweet be a firing-worthy offense? To me, the answer is yes, but I don't think what Shapiro tweeted came anywhere near that line. Just because he chose to advertise his prejudices in this way does not mean he should be fired. (I mean this from a moral perspective, I am not sure what the law says).
5. The people who believe Srinivasan is the objectively most qualified nominee a Democrat might choose probably also believe that the objectively most qualified person nominated by a Dmeocrat since Breyer in 1994 is... Merrick Garland.
1 & 2 are just "whataboutisms". Maybe Shapiro is a hypocrite, but that is not a logical refutation of his point
3 - no, you misunderstood the argument completely. It is not that the nominees are inferior because they are black women, it is that because you are excluding 90%+ of the the potential pool, you are likely to end up with an inferior nominee. This would be just as true if, as EV suggested, you limited yourself , a priori, to candidates whose name begins with 'D;
5. So ?
Limiting Yourself to 7% of the Potential Candidates …
is usually unlikely to yield the best candidate.
"Unlikely," invokes probability, implying random process. By that method, it would always be unlikely to yield the best candidate, not "usually," unlikely. Finding the best candidate among any random 7% sample would be, "improbable."
Which raises the question of the basis—if it is not a random basis—on which samples are specified and compared. And down that road lie comparative value judgments about groups of candidates.
I was today years old when I learned Barrett, Kavananaugh, and Gorsuch were the best possible/qualified candidates available at the time.
You reveal yourself every now and again, prof.
I don't know that I'd go that far, but at least they didn't have to be drawn from a pool that excluded well over 95% of the available candidates before any question of merit entered into the selection process.
The pool of “white and fervently anti-abortion” candidates isn’t near as large or deep as you want to believe. And this entire asshole “just doing the math, man” argument begins and ends at “there are no qualified USSC candidates to be found among black female jurists.”
Where'd he say that?
There is a deep human belief in the "one right answer, or way to things". As well as the idea that there is one clear reason that things happen. These myths that there is, or should be some obvious best choice, with clear, written criteria, persist. Part of the dogma of the ancient God Either Or.
This raises so many issues, including the tyranny of 280 characters, but the biggest one is the idea that the Supreme Court is some kind of meritocracy. Where is the Posner, the Easterbrook, the pre-Heidi scandal Kozinski? Former UC senior law lecturer Barack Obama would be a heck of a choice, were it not for the possibility of frequent recusal.
The Supreme Court justices are generally solid but not outstanding.
I say so, therefore it is
RE: "Objectively best pick for Biden is Sri Srinivasan"
Let me humbly suggest that the real (intellectual and discourse) "offense" here is that Shapiro passes off his own opinion and preference -- however well-informed -- as being objective.
There cannot be any objectively best pick because there is no standardized and agreed-upon metric to rate supreme court candidates (or even a single abstract criterion as to what makes for great SCOTUS material), and because the "picking" involves a political process by design, which is therefore not objective either. Even knowing much about all short-listed in in-the-pool candidates does not provide a basis to pronounce one of them to be the "objectively" best candidate.
Call it ipse dixit hubris.
If a correction was in order, it should have acknowledged the subjectivity of favoring Sri Srinivasan, and perhaps made the case why this candidate is - in Shapiro's view - exceptionally well qualified so as to distinguish him from all others that might be in the running or under consideration. And the evaluation criterion or criteria might also warrant a spirited defense since there is no consensus on ex-ante indicators of supreme jurisprudential greatness.