The Volokh Conspiracy
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Cross-Ideological Support for Electoral Count Act Reform
There are not many subjects on which Professors McConnell, Pildes, Foley and Smith agree.
One step that could help prevent another January 6 would be to reform the Electoral Count Act, so as to remove the ability of members of Congress to question or subvert certified election results. This is the argument made in an op-ed by law professors Edward Foley, Michael McConnell, Richard Pildes, and Bradley Smith -- four law professors who span the political spectrum and agree on very little.
Their argument for ECA reform is based upon two principles:
First, to avoid a repeat of Jan. 6, or worse, Congress must rewrite the Electoral Count Act, the outmoded 1887 law that governs the certification of the presidential vote. There is a pressing need for a clear set of rules to govern the certification of the presidential vote.
Second, this revision should be based on the premise that Congress is not a national recount board or a court for litigating the outcome of presidential elections. It is not the role of Congress to revisit a state's popular vote tally.
As they explain, the current ECA created an opportunity for mischief. Solid reform could make January shenanigans more difficult.
In terms of what reform should look like, the four authors offer several guidelines:
Whenever there is just one submission of electoral votes from a state — in other words, no competing slates of electors — Congress should disavow any power to question those electoral votes on the ground that there was something wrong with the popular vote upon which those electors were appointed. As long as the state itself has settled on who won that state through policies established in advance of the election, Congress has no role other than to accept those as being the state's electoral votes.
In a situation in which Congress receives conflicting submissions of electoral votes from different institutions of state government — something that has not occurred since 1876 and that we hope remains rare — Congress should incentivize states to identify in advance which institution is entitled to speak for its voters. If states do this, then Congress only has to count the electoral votes sent from the designated part of the state's government.
If a state has failed to make clear which part of its government is authoritative in determining the popular vote, Congress could set a default rule (awarding power to the governor or state supreme court, for example). Or it could create in advance a nonpartisan tribunal empowered to identify which part of state government has a better legal claim for being authoritative under the specific circumstances.
Whichever approach Congress takes is less important than that the revised statute be unambiguous about how the matter is to be resolved. Uncertainty invites contestation at precisely the most dangerous point, on the eve of inaugurating the new president.
These guidelines seem sensible to me, and appear to represent the sort of reform that might actually obtain bipartisan support. Indeed, both Senators McConnell and Thune have suggested they would consider ECA reform.
On a related note, AEI's Yuval Levin similarly urged policymakers to focus on postelection administration, including ECA reform, to increase transparency and accountability, in the New York Times.
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There's a need for reform all right -- but exactly the opposite of the "reform" you propose, which would simply remove the only remedy for state-enabled cheating.
For starters I would move the dates of terms back where they were before the 20th Amendment, so that there is time to do a full forensic audit of any disputed state. Then I would limit counting strictly to paper ballots only -- no electronic voting or counting machines allowed.
Can you define a "forensic audit" of an election? This idea thrown around with no real suggestion of what it means. There are any number of checks preformed on elections results. What do you want and how is it different from what is already done?
There is an adage that might be appropriate here: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
The 1887 law works just fine.
I don't know how you can say that it "works just fine" when it's never actually been used in any real sense. The only time it partially came into play was 2020, and I don't think that's an endorsement.
Nobody who reads it thinks it's not broke.
David, did we see the same thing? I saw an election in 2020, a series of electoral disputes in several states, and the winner of the Electoral College sworn in as POTUS. What did you see?
I did not say the law was perfect, I said it worked just fine. That is literally true.
Personally, I don't want more mischief from Congressional lawmakers.
You do realize one can see failure issues without an actual failure occurring.
There were PowerPoints on how to subvert the current system.
Having our Republic hang on thanks to the thin reed of Pence's integrity worked out, but is not the same as a robust system.
I saw a system that came far too close to having an election stolen. Next time, if state election officials aren't honest, or the VP isn't honest, we are in deep shit.
There were no competing slates in 2020, so the incomprehensible provisions of the ECA did not come into play, so they didn't "work" at all.
re: "strictly to paper ballots only -- no electronic voting or counting machines allowed"
Please, no. First, remember that vote rigging is not some invention new to the electronic age. Paper votes are just as susceptible to tampering. Second, even though there are some current problems with electronic voting systems, the idea of locking in a law based on the current state of technology is stupid in every other context - which should give you pause that it's likely just as stupid here. We need election reform but luddism does not advance the cause.
A constitutional amendment is "locking in". Regular laws can be changed if technology changes. As it is, I would leave to the states the question of whether to use electronic voting machines - and I would heavily encourage the states to *not* use them. Yeah, paper votes can be tampered with, but at least you have to be physically present to do it.
Regular laws can be changed as technology changes - but they generally aren't. Look at all the problems we're having because the 1987 CCFA hasn't been updated.
And only allow travel to and from the polling station by foot or horse-drawn conveyance while we're at it.
McConnell says he wants reform, but one juvenile tweet from Trump and he will find a way to backpedal and say he doesn't.
Are you still under the impression that McConnell and Trump are allies, rather than just sometimes sharing the same enemies?
Are you still under the impression that your conspiracy theorizing is rational?
Mitch is not majority leader, just the bogey man who haunts your dreams.
Chuck just said he wasn't interested until the federal election take over acts pass, which won't happen.
The key point here is that any electoral college reform act has to be single subject. It has to do that, and nothing else!
If the Democratic leadership decide they'd rather have headlines about Republicans rejecting reform, than the reform itself, they'll lard it down with poison pills. It's really down to whether people like Schumer and Pelosi actually want the reform more than the headlines. If they do, the Republican votes will be there.
Why? The Ds are allowed to play politics to try to get what they want.
I tend to agree, Brett, except for the part about Republicans cooperating.
It's amazing that anyone is daft enough to think Republicans would ever argue and barter in good faith.
Their number one priority is to not agree with Democrats- full stop. They won't give a win. Hell, look at the infrastructure bill where they mostly all vote against it then go back to their constituents to tell them about how they got them all this money for roads and such. What a crock.
My side good, your side bad.
"They won't give a win."
Mitch delivered enough votes to invoke cloture and pass the "infrastructure bill".
How many Dems voted for any bills in 2017 to 2021?
"My side good, your side bad."
I'm at a loss to express the chutzpah of you typing those words.
The OP looks like it calls for an authorization for cheating by state legislatures which want to overturn vote counts.
The urgent need at this point is for federal legislation which makes voting administration at the state level a solely ministerial function, and makes it impossible legally to create an election outcome contrary to voters' intentions as expressed by their ballots. The following requirements need to be addressed:
1. The personal responsibility of every person involved in election administration. There should be a requirement for an oath to uphold the Constitution, which says further that determination of an election outcome is a power reserved solely for the sovereign People, who determine that outcome by casting their ballots. Every state legislator participating in making state election rules must be sworn to that oath. Every officer of every vendor which supplies election equipment must be sworn to that oath. Every person involved in setting up election machinery and procedures, and conducting voter registration, and conducting election process must be sworn to that oath. Every person involved in counting votes must be sworn to that oath. Violation of the oath must be a federal felony.
2. Election organization and management must be defined as a ministerial responsibility to facilitate voting, and to make it as easy as reasonably possible for voters to register and to vote. Non-ministerial means to be ruled out should include every policy or rule which has potential power to bias the outcome of an election, with bias defined as anything which purports to create an election outcome which relies on anything but voters' tabulated ballots. Every means which purports to give power to any source of election outcome except vote counting should be ruled out, and all attempts to do that—including attempts to do it under color of law—should be defined as federal felonies.
3. All voting methods to be used must produce a paper record sufficient to enable an accurate count, and a subsequent audit after the election. Custody of those voting papers must be secured against partisan access, before, during, and after the election, until after elected officials have taken office. Thereafter, any access to voting papers must be conducted under a process to guarantee public oversight of everything done with those voting papers, and to prevent exclusively partisan access at all times until the terms of office of those elected have expired.
4. Use of the electoral college must be approved as an authorized part of presidential elections. To the extent that review of federal electoral vote counting procedures determines they are faulty or ambiguous, congress should fix the problems.
Stephen,
That was my first reaction as well.
It's 2024. California is politically still led by an overwhelming number of Dems. Shockingly, Cal voters go for Trump (or Rubio, or Cruz, etc) over the Dem candidate. BUT...the Dem political leaders in Sacramento "overrule" the will of the people and put forth only a slate of Dem electors. According to this "improvement," now Congress is hamstrung...it must accept this bullshit slate of voters.
Before 2020, I would have laughed at the above hypo. But, it's my sense that lots of R's actually tried to do this in, say, Michigan. Or Arizona. (Or, at the very least, thought long-and-hard about trying to steal several states away.)
The proposal that, if there are indeed dualing slates; Congress might let a governor decide . . . NO! The problem is that, apparently, there are a good number of governors who are moral whores, and would cheerfully cheat to try and steal an election. (Cheers to Georgia gov. Kemp, who showed his integrity!!!). [Now, if there were an actual independent panel who had the authority, I might come on board . . . so that part of the suggestions does not seem crazy to me.]
It really has to be the legislature that decides by a majority vote which slate is the right one. Governor is just one person from one party, Supreme courts are too small, often not elected, and I'm not sure electing them would make it any better.
If the legislature can't make a determination then their votes don't count. But the constitution still requires 270 (a majority of the possible electoral votes). If there isn't a majority then it goes to the house.
Yes, and? It's not Congress's job to do something about this. Depending on the facts, there may be a role for the courts (certainly state courts, possibly federal), but not Congress.
Or it could create in advance a nonpartisan tribunal empowered to identify which part of state government has a better legal claim for being authoritative under the specific circumstances.
No thanks. As we can see with State redistricting commissions, this just devolves into a tournament to stack the "non partisan" tribunal with loyal party hacks sailing under false colors.
Much better to tell the States - either make it clear whose list of Electors you want us to believe, or else we - the House - will decide for you. If you want a default rule before you get to the House, the logical one is the State Legislature's list - they are after all the ones constitutionally obliged to direct the Manner of appointing Electors.
A pox on "non partisan" tribunals.
Lee Moore, whatever wisdom there may be in arguments against, "non partisan," tribunals, you cancel it out and then some by embracing a state legislative power to overturn elections.
Apparently, the people advocating that have no inkling what explosives they tinker with. Now is no time to threaten America's voting majority—frustrated as it has become to be hampered and constrained by the electoral college—with complete loss of any residual power to influence the outcome of a presidential election.
"Now is not the time to abide by the literal text of the Constitution."
by embracing a state legislative power to overturn elections
The state legislature doesn't even have to use elections to select Electors. It's entirely constitutional for them to appoint the Electors themselves. So if something goes awry with the elections they prescribe - eg the State executive running it under different rules from those set by the legislature, or the state or federal judiciary inventing new rules, the natural body to break any ties and resolve things is the legislature.
Sure, it's a partisan tribunal, but then so are "non partisan" tribunals. The latter are just pretending not to be. The former do at least have he merit of being elected by the people of the State.
Stephen what does 4 even mean:
"4. Use of the electoral college must be approved as an authorized part of presidential elections."
It's part of the constitution, it doesn't need any authorization from congress, nor can congress do anything but tinker around the edges with it. In fact the supreme court ruled over a century ago that state legislatures have 'plentipotentiary' power to decide how electors are selected.
Kazinski, it is there to make sure the ministerial standard proposed is not interpreted as an end run around the electoral college. I consider my whole suggestion to be at once institutionally borderline, and absolutely necessary to head off an existential crisis for American democratic governance. I don't want it to be any more borderline than it has to be.
If we're reforming it, just ditch the entire electoral college and make it a popular vote.
States still get their senators to preserve their undemocratic power holds while the president actually is picked by the majority of people. I fail to see how that is a bad thing. It's high time we stop letting land dictate things instead of people themselves. One person, one vote.
The proposed reforms can be made by mere statute. Getting rid of the electoral college would require a constitutional amendment. That makes it a lot harder to implement. And that's before remembering that it's a really bad idea.
The electoral college is an attempt to balance the age-old tensions between rural and urban constituencies. The electoral college may not be the best possible answer but a straight popular vote is about the worst possible answer to that problem.
The electoral college is an attempt to balance the age-old tensions between rural and urban constituencies.
Rossami, no, it isn't. At the time of the founding any such tension was not only non-existent, but also inconceivable. It took the century-thence mechanization of agriculture to make rural–urban voting rivalries even thinkable. You will find zero support for your supposition in the historical record. However popular that notion is among movement conservatives, everything about is present-minded, results-oriented, minority-power-grab-justifying, bullshit.
Good lord, Stephen, you say some stupid things but that takes the cake. The tension between urban and rural constituencies goes back to the very founding of cities. It was well established and widely understood by Roman scholars - people who the Founders studied quite carefully.
Jefferson called called cities “pestilential to the morals, the health, and the liberties of man.” No tension there!
Nope again, Rossami. We are talking about voting.
Nobody in the founding era supposed any constituency other than a rural one would decide the outcome of any presidential election. At the first census, the 3 largest cities in the U.S. were New York, Philadelphia, and Boston. The biggest city in the South was Charleston. All of them combined did not number 100,000 residents together. Which amounted to just about 2.5 percent of the nation's population of 3.9 million.
And of course, living in one of those glorified villages was hardly different, for most people, than living in the countryside. Whatever the case may have been in ancient Rome, the notion of an influential political factor based on an rural/urban divide never entered the mind of any founder.
Just to tune you up a little more, the founding era contrast between urban and rural was further diminished by the fact that non-urban settlement was mostly higher density (and village centric) than today's rural areas are. There wasn't any founding-era analogue for the Dakotas, not even on the frontier. And by the way, since I have mentioned the Dakotas, did you know there are more Trump voters in NYC than there are in both Dakotas combined?
Well I agree it wasn't an urban rural thing. Hamilton was clear it was an attempt to keep the voters from going off the rails.
Problem is one man's lunatic is another man's genius. You could make as good a case for the electoral college nullifying a popular vote for Sanders or AOC as you could for nullifying a states popular vote for Trump.
In fact there was an attempt to do that by almost 1/2 a dozen electors in 2016 to try to throw the vote to the House.
Cities didn't exist? People who lived in the non-existent cities didn't have a different life than those who lived in the country? Those who lived in that time couldn't imagine bigger cities?
Did they at least have copper tools and fire?
Cavanaugh, as you persist in absurdity, take a look at where it delivers you. You defend a claim that the founders built into the constitution a counter-majoritarian structure, with an eye to advantaging the preferences of a rural minority—at a time when the rural population amounted to 90% of everyone, or more. Apparently, to point that contradiction out to you doesn't even slow you down.
To make your advocacy historically cogent, you would have to reverse yourself. Suggest instead at first a counter-majoritarian boost for founding-era urbanites—but then reverse again, to figure out some made-up history mechanism to switch back to a constitutional preference on behalf of a rural minority, sometime after 1920.
More generally, what you are doing here is commonplace. You have not been a student of history. It does not occur to you that the actual past may have little or nothing to do with current cultural presentations you thought you could trust. Those became your own principal sources to inform yourself about what happened long ago. Like a lot of folks, you rely on those presentations, and on a self-reinforcing community of like-thinking belief which grows up around them.
But pretty much everyone who grows up now, and then tries a look into the historical record, comes away with a different view—and with the same disconcerted insight. They discover that quite a few chapters from the actual past have very little to do with the way they have been portrayed recently.
If you keep that in mind, it can help you not look foolish. You can learn to be cautious about insisting on nonsense regarding a subject you know little about.
lol, no. Nothing could have prevented a Jan 6th. If it wasn't one thing, it would have been some other excuse to behave badly.
Also, also, Congress will just fuck it up worse. Congress trying to fix something Congress broke in the first place is the definition of insanity.
Never try; it is destined?
Congress did this in the 1800s; we've successfully updated a lot of legislation since then.
The Act is merely advisory. The counting is done by a group of politicians who can use the majority rule "nuclear option" to set the rules of the moment to produce the desired outcome. In the event two slates of electors appear, history suggests politicians will support their party. I wouldn't worry about anticipating that situation.
If there is only one slate of electors, as happened after the 2020 election, but accusations of fraud abound there could be a benefit from codifying a version of the enrolled bill rule. The enrolled bill rule shields federal statutes that on their face are properly enacted from accusations that the process was flawed or even fraudulent. If the Speaker of the House, the clerk of the House, the President of the Senate, and the clerk of the Senate all sign a bill as properly enrolled, the President signs it, and the appropriate executive official accepts it for filing then it is legally passed even if you call up CSPAN video to show that the real vote was 1-99 instead of 99-1.
From 12A:
“The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;-The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed;”
As long as one person got the majority of the EC, there is no vote to take, no procedure to object to EC votes, and no certification needed from the VP.
Democrats in Congress stood up to challenge the certification of the electoral vote after the presidential elections of 2000, 2004, and 2016.
Where were these law professors then? For the legal academy, nothing is ever a problem until Republicans do it, at which point it becomes a crisis that demands immediate attention.
Protest votes are not the same as a coordinated effort to deny the will of a state's voters.
Nor did the Democratic Party work to purge all the lower level folks who didn't go along, and replace them with partisans.
I'm not sure that removing checks and balances because you don't like how that authority MIGHT be exercised at some point in the future is a really great idea.
Also this:
"As long as the state itself has settled on who won that state through policies established in advance of the election." First, isn't that the whole point? What "the state" settles on is not going to always be clear and neither is exactly who "the state" is. Second, I can't speak for other states, but in Wisconsin many "policies established in advance of the election" WEREN'T followed, so in this proposed language, would that be justification for Congressional review?