The Volokh Conspiracy
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If Roe Gets Overruled, Abortion Policy may not be "Left to the States"
Absent Roe, current Supreme Court precedent likely gives the federal government considerable power to either restrict or protect abortion rights. But that precedent could potentially be limited in ways advocated by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, an unlikely potential savior of abortion rights!

Last week's oral argument in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, showed there is a good chance that the Supreme Court will soon overrule, or at least severely limit abortion rights long protected under Roe v. Wade and subsequent precedents. If Roe does get overruled, many people assume that abortion policy will be "left to the states." Some hope that, in that event, the temperature of the culture war over abortion might be lowered. Both red and blue state majorities could live under their preferred regimes. People who strongly oppose their state's policies on the issue might be able to "vote with their feet" for alternatives, including by crossing state lines to get an abortion, and then returning home after it is done.
But that possibly happy scenario might well not occur. The reason is that the federal government could potentially get into the abortion regulation game. Current Supreme Court precedent leaves considerable potential scope for such regulation. That, precedent, in turn, could potentially be limited or even reversed, however. If so, abortion rights advocates might owe a debt to the unlikeliest of saviors: conservative Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas.
In the immediate aftermath of a reversal of Roe, the states really would be in control of developments. There is currently very little federal abortion legislation on the books. Red states could enact new restrictions and reactivate old ones blocked by Roe. Blue states could continue to permit abortion, and perhaps even expand its availability. Red-state residents seeking abortions would increasingly try to cross state lines to do so in more liberal states.
But this state of affairs could change if Congress decided to act. In my view, the text and original meaning of the Constitution do not give Congress any power to restrict abortion, with the exception of those performed in federal territories, such as the District of Columbia, and perhaps those that involve crossing state lines to access a commercial provider. But current Supreme Court precedent strongly suggests otherwise.
Under cases such as Gonzales v. Raich (2005), the Supreme Court has held that Congress' power to regulate interstate commerce includes the authority to restrict almost any "economic activity," so long as it has a "substantial effect" on interstate trade. And "economic activity" is defined very broadly to include anything that involves the "production, distribution, and consumption of commodities." That definition allowed the Court to use the Commerce Clause to uphold a federal ban on the possession of marijuana that had never crossed state lines or been sold in any market (even an intrastate one). Nearly all abortions involve the "consumption" and "distribution" of commodities, such as medical supplies. In addition, most abortions qualify as "economic" transactions because doctors, nurses, and others are paid to perform them.
One could argue that a federal law banning or severely restricting abortions isn't "really" aimed at regulating interstate commerce. The true motive would be to restrict abortion regardless of whether it involved interstate transactions or not. But much the same can be said for the marijuana ban upheld in Raich, and other federal laws enforcing the War on Drugs. They go far beyond targeting actual interstate trade in drugs, and instead forbid even in-state distribution and possession of illegal narcotics.
If, as is likely, the interstate abortion market expands in the wake of a Supreme Court decision overruling Roe, Congress could claim that suppression of intrastate abortions is necessary in order to enforce restrictions on those that involve crossing state lines. If abortion is banned in State A, but legal in neighboring State B, that creates an incentive for residents of A to cross into B in order to get abortions - even if the feds enact a ban on such crossing. That ban might be more effectively enforced if abortion were illegal in B as well as A. Thus, the argument would go, Congress has the power to restrict abortion within a state, because doing so can help suppress the interstate market in abortion.
The Commerce Clause rationale for abortion restrictions might not apply to abortions that are performed on a noncommercial basis by staff who provide their services for free. But such cases are only a small percentage of the total. Moreover, in Raich, the Court upheld the ban on Angel Raich's possession of marijuana even though the producers had in fact provided it to her for free. The theory was that even such completely noncommercial production and distribution of an illegal drug could impact the interstate market.
These kinds of Commerce Clause arguments may strike some readers as the kind of sophistry that gives lawyers a bad name. I sympathize with that reaction! I hate these arguments myself, and have long argued that Raich is a terrible decision that should be overruled. But this is exactly the sort of reasoning that prevailed in Raich, and provides a constitutional rationale for much of the federal War on Drugs.
In addition to trying to directly regulate abortion by using its Commerce Clause powers, Congress could also try to do so indirectly by using its Spending Clause power to condition grants to state governments. For example, it could enact legislation restricting various types of health care grants to state governments unless the latter ban or severely restrict abortion. These kinds of conditional spending restrictions are subject to a number of constraints under current Supreme Court precedent. The amount of money involved cannot be so large as to be "coercive"; the conditions must be sufficiently related to the purpose of the grant; and they have to be clearly stated on the face of the law - not just inferred by the executive branch. The Trump administration ran afoul of all three of these restrictions during its campaign to cut federal funds to "sanctuary cities."
I won't go through all of the potential arguments and counterarguments here. Much depends on the exact scope and wording of the legislation at issue. Nonetheless, I think a carefully drafted conditional-spending restriction on abortion rights could potentially jump through these hoops. Then, blue states would face a choice of either losing some of their federal health care grants or imposing abortion restrictions.
The Spending Clause approach is less threatening to abortion rights because states could potentially avoid the conditions by refusing the federal funds tied to them. In practice, such refusals of federal funds are very rare. But a hot-button ideological issue like abortion might prove an exception to that rule. Some blue states, especially relatively wealthy ones, might tell Uncle Sam to take his money - and his abortion restrictions - and shove them.
What applies to conservative efforts to use federal power to restrict abortion likely also covers liberal efforts to use it to protect abortion rights against red states. Congress could potentially use Commerce Clause reasoning to justify laws preempting state regulation of abortion. It could also potentially condition various federal grants to state governments on the abolition of state-level restrictions on abortion.
The above discussion is based on the assumption that current Supreme Court federalism precedent remains unaltered. But that might not happen.
In Gonzales v. Carhart (2007), the Supreme Court upheld a federal restriction on late-term "partial birth" against individual rights challenges. Justice Clarence Thomas wrote a concurring opinion emphasizing the possibility that the law in question exceeds the scope of congressional power under the Commerce Clause. Thomas previously wrote a forceful dissent in Gonzales v. Raich. Earlier this year, he reiterated key elements of his critique of that decision, and urged the Supreme Court to reconsider and limit it.
Back in 2018, I explained why Thomas' position could well lead him to vote to strike down federal abortion restrictions. I built on an earlier post on this subject by Cornell Law Professor Michael Dorf. It's possible that one or more other conservative justices could join Thomas's reasoning.
One can then envision federal abortion restrictions getting invalidated by a coalition of conservative justices who believe they are beyond the power of the federal government, and liberal justices who object on individual-rights grounds. It is also possible (though less likely) that some liberal jurists could endorse the federalism argument against these restrictions. Liberal thinking on constitutional federalism shifted a good deal in recent years, and some of that shift may go beyond "fair weather federalism" brought on by opposition to Trump's policies. It's also possible that either liberal or conservative judges will think of clever ways to limit the scope of Raich, even if it doesn't get overruled completely.
But, as also explained in my 2018 post, abortion rights plaintiffs challenging federal restrictions will need to specifically raise the federalism issue if they hope to get Thomas' vote. He has a strict policy of not considering constitutional arguments that aren't specifically raised by litigants. Some conservative lower-court judges have similar views. More generally, abortion-rights advocates would need to make federalism issues a regular part of their armory, which might cut against the ideological grain. But immigration advocates have successfully made a similar shift in sanctuary cities cases, and there is no intrinsic reason why the pro-choice legal community cannot follow their example.
While the issue is a complex one, it's also possible that abortion litigation could lead courts to tighten enforcement of constitutional constraints on conditional grants to state governments. I suggested some ways that could be done here.
Federalism arguments could also, of course, be raised by state governments and others challenging potential federal laws protecting abortion rights against the states. In considering their litigation strategy, conservatives and liberals alike may need to decide whether they care more about preserving the autonomy of "their" states, or about retaining the power to control the other side's states when their preferred party is in power in Washington.
All of the above assumes the Supreme Court will indeed overrule or severely limit Roe v. Wade, and that Congress would take advantage of that shift to enact new abortion legislation. Neither outcome is certain, especially the latter. The Court might yet preserve most of Roe in some form. Even if it does not, federal abortion legislation might be forestalled by various political factors.
But the possibility of federal abortion legislation enacted in the wake of Roe's overruling is at least a plausible one that deserves serious consideration. As a supporter of both abortion rights and tight limits on federal power, I hope that it leads Supreme Court justices and others to reconsider awful decisions such as Gonzales v. Raich, and at least limit their scope.
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"reactivate old ones blocked by Roe."
I'm not sure why states would need to reactivate anything.
Roe got a declaratory judgement in 1969 declaring Texas's abortion laws unconstitutional. But unless other states have been enjoined from enforcing theirs, there's nothing preventing Texas or other states from just enforcing the laws on the books.
That's my understanding, too. Those laws are only held in abeyance by the Supreme court's ruling that they're unconstitutional. Overturn Roe and those laws would all immediately be available for resumed enforcement, unless the Court got very tricky about how it went about it.
And I don't think they actually have the votes on either side to be very tricky.
While true that the Texas Legislature has never formally repealed the statues criminalizing abortion, the Supreme Court's declaring abortion a right necessitated many new laws that would necessarily conflict with those statutes. It's not as if the state left abortion completely unregulated in the aftermath of Roe.
For example, Health & Safety Code sec. 171.003 provides, "An abortion may be performed only by a physician licensed to practice medicine in this state."
DIY ABORTION AND DISPARATE LEGAL CONSEQUENCES
As previously pointed out in a different thread, the Texas Penal Code's Criminal Homicide Chapter exempts only the fetus mother, not the fetus father, from prosecution. So, if the latter endeavors to perform a do-it-yourself abortion on the fetus mother, he could be liable for murder, but not the pregnant woman herself if she joined the effort. See Tex. Pen. Code Section 1.07a(26) "Individual" means a human being who is alive, including an unborn child at every stage of gestation from fertilization until birth. (49) "Death" includes, for an individual who is an unborn child, the failure to be born alive.
Sec. 19.06. APPLICABILITY TO CERTAIN CONDUCT. This chapter does not apply to the death of an unborn child if the conduct charged is:
(1) conduct committed by the mother of the unborn child;
(2) a lawful medical procedure performed by a physician or other licensed health care provider with the requisite consent, if the death of the unborn child was the intended result of the procedure;
(3) a lawful medical procedure performed by a physician or other licensed health care provider with the requisite consent as part of an assisted reproduction as defined by Section 160.102, Family Code; or
(4) the dispensation of a drug in accordance with law or administration of a drug prescribed in accordance with law.
LEADING CASE: Flores v. State, 245 S.W.3d 432 (Tex. Crim. App. 2008)
Appellant was convicted of murdering his pregnant girlfriend's twin fetuses by stepping on her abdomen, though he maintains that she also took measures to cause the deaths. Appellant raises three constitutional challenges to the capital murder statute. We hold that the statute is constitutional. In addition, appellant contends that the court of appeals erred in ruling that he was not entitled to a jury instruction on the lesser-included offense of deadly conduct. We disagree. Thus, we shall affirm the court of appeals.
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?scidkt=1872185080165793642&as_sdt=2&hl=en
The details matter here. At one extreme you might have a declaratory judgment saying "Health Code section 12345 as appearing in the 1967 consolidated statutes may not be enforced against plaintiff." At another extreme you might have an injunction against the Attorney General prohibiting enforcement against any laws against first or second trimester abortion. A narrow declaratory judgment could be ignored 50 years later when the parties are different and the law is different. An injunction requires an affirmative act to dissolve. Texas would have to consult its registry of injunctions against the state and go back to the courts that issued them to have them rescinded or narrowed.
On a map check out a town called Trinidad, CO—iirc it had the highest per capita cannabis sales for years. (pun intended).
So, you're saying that overturning Roe is, in fact, our best shot at getting the interstate commerce power pared back a little?
It does seem a touch ironic that the reflexive response to the Supreme Court getting past stare decisis and overruling Roe/Casey would be to pass a replacement law grounded in the majestic, clearly immutable piece of jurisprudence that is Raich. But hey -- who am I to dissuade them?
Somin appears to argue that precedent is the savior of the Supreme Court's willingness to dispose with precedent.
And the comment about liberals having to plead with Thomas to save them seems like a Freudian peek into an unseemly conservative fantasy.
I think this post is pure fantasy. There is no way right-wing jurists are going to strike down a federal abortion ban after being appointed, in part, because of their opposition to abortion.
I would be utterly astonished if Clarence Thomas voted that way.
It's pure fantasy to think that the current Congress would enact a national abortion ban in the wake of Roe being overturned.
Maybe if the Republicans gain control of both sides of congress after the mid-term elections next year.
Biden would veto.
Need a GOP trifecta.
Or a veto proof majority in Congress. Of course that's Exceedingly unlikely to happen with the 2022 mid-terms.
Both you and Bob are correct, of course, but if the GOP manages a trifecta they will certainly pass an abortion ban.
I wouldn't be certain of that. Republican office holders, especially at the federal level, are hardly representative of Republican voters. Why else do you suppose Roe has lasted 50 years, given who was putting justices on the Court?
The fact is that most abortion restriction are targeted at poor women. Middle and upper class women will have same access to abortion should Roe v Wade be overturned. It is merely a question of traveling farther. Would a Republican Congress seek to restrict access to this group? I think it unlikely.
Then you would almost certainly be astonished.
As Somin noted, Thomas (joined by Scalia) wrote a brief three-sentence concurrence in Gonzales v. Carhart (2007) in which the Court upheld the Congressional ban on partial-birth abortion. It concluded, "I also note that whether the Act constitutes a permissible exercise of Congress’ power under the Commerce Clause is not before the Court. The parties did not raise or brief that issue; it is outside the question presented; and the lower courts did not address it."
It seems rather implausible that he would write separately to bring up the Commerce Clause if he felt that the law was permissible under the Commerce Clause.
Actually, Thomas is very likely to go there. See his dissent in Gonzales v. Raich (2005). Granted, smoking pot is not as politically charged as abortion, but I doubt Thomas cares.
I don't doubt Thomas cares.
I agree with the first part. Indeed, Raich is strong evidence of that. But actually, Thomas has already implied in the partial birth abortion cases that he thinks a national ban is unconstitutional.
Health care is not interstate commerce. So ruled the Court on adjudicating ACA. So the issue is settled law.
Don't be absurd. Not only would the conservatives on the Court uphold a Congressional act banning abortion nation wide, given that Alito and company base their decisions on abortion on their own personal positions, they are likely to rule in a future case that life begins at conception and therefore all abortions nationwide are prohibited.
Sydney r finkel
Yet another reason to revisit and overrule Wickard.
Even if you don't buy the legal realist take of the above comments, I think Lopez/Morrison were not overruled by Raich. Commerce clause jurisprudence now contains multitudes, and I don't think it's too hard to distinguish abortion from drugs.
Not that I think Raich is good! I just don't think it's the sole lens through which to view CC jurisprudence these days.
The Commerce Clause is perhaps the clearest example of motivated reasoning in caselaw. It's quite obvious even "principled" Justices like Scalia simply pick the outcome they like, then they can mold a commerce clause argument to support it.
I think you can gage the constitutional decay by the very fact that people today refer to it as the "commerce" clause. It was formerly known as the "interstate commerce" clause.
Actually it's the Commerce Clause- it includes commerce among the several states (probably coterminus with what you call "interstate commerce"), but also with foreign nations and Indians, all in one clause.
Doesn't seem legally realist to me.
To think that the courts would completely swing from going from a doctrine of being extremely protective of any enchoachmemt on the right to abortion, then suddenly swing the complete opposite direction and abandon any principles of federalism isn't credible.
If they did I'd have to agree with Sotomayor about the stench of the courts politics.
But merely correcting a decision where the court thought it had the power to resolve a political question using a rationale totally unfettered to the original meaning of the constitution, certainly doesn't qualify.
"Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."
If abortion on demand ceases to be a Constitutional right, then we can deal with what comes next.
A thorough, and I'm sure well reasoned review of the legal issues. Which are largely irrelevant. Red states have passed a long list of anti-abortion laws over the last decades, knowing they were unconstitutional. Why would GOPs in congress worry about the constitutionality of any national abortion ban they passed? As an issue, abortion has been invaluable to GOPs. And TV preachers. A victory wouldn't be nearly as useful. Victory will not be allowed.
And IF SCOTUS threw such laws out, they'd go for a personhood amendment. There's no hope of such an amendment being ratified, but to GOP pols and TV preachers, that makes it perfect. A personhood amendment would fire up the base, and state level activism in purple and blue states, for years. IF Roe is overturned, GOPs will very quickly push some sort of national ban, constitutional or not.
"Red states have passed a long list of anti-abortion laws over the last decades, knowing they were unconstitutional."
Believing them to be constitutional, and the Supreme court dishonest, rather. Which is not quite the same thing in terms of assessing likely actions.
I agree with Brett Bellmore with a caveat. To unbelievers, Roe seems a bizzaare reading of the Constitution. It has given rise to extreme reactions. Absent Roe, state laws on abortion would vary, but I think few would be as restrictive as the more restrictive laws today. Roe has significantly contributed to the poisoning of our politics.
The fight against abortion is about the fight to prevent abortion anywhere and not just in a single state. I don't think there's any evidence that anti-choice advocates will suddenly stop trying to use the legislative and legal systems to take healthcare choices away from women nationwide. They'll notch their belts after killing Roe and move on to close whatever loopholes they perceive to still exist, like crossing state lines.
See: Texas' quick response to the availability of Plan B pills by mail for an example of attention to loopholes.
"nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
"The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article."
Appropriate legislation being a declaration that abortion requires due process and failure to limit it deprives the unborn human of equal protection.
Unborn Person Civil Rights Act of 2025.
That legislation is likely precluded by City of Boerne v Flores.
Why do you think that? Congress perhaps could not define a fetus as a citizen, but I think it would be settled as an Equal Protection Clause enforcement, applying to "any person".
Boerne precludes Congress from defining a fetus as a 14th Amendment person:
You're making a flatly conclusory argument that fetuses aren't people. What if the Supreme Court disagrees with you?
If that were the case, it is highly likely no legislation would be needed. The Court would hold that abortions must be outlawed.
More likely SCOTUS will find that at some point in a pregnancy the unborn is a person.
Returning to previous thread by David Post, it is difficult to imagine that the court would say that an unborn child in 9th month of a pregnancy and just 1 day from expected delivery date could be killed at the whim of the mother rather than delivered. Also it is difficult to imagine that any court would say that 1 day after conception the state should have any say in the matter. That said, once the court extends the protections of personhood to the unborn of certain gestational age, the states would be bound. In addition the states would seem to be bound to respect the woman's right up until that gestational age unless the court completely strikes down Roe.
If this comes out the way I see it, there does not seem to be any room left for the states to legislate.
" You're making a flatly conclusory argument that fetuses aren't people. What if the Supreme Court disagrees with you? "
We -- the liberal-libertarian mainstream -- will modernize the Supreme Court, much as we have shaped our nation's course of progress throughout my lifetime.
Not to mention that the due process clause requires state action.
Even if abortion is murder, not every murderer is a violator of the 14th Amendment.
IF Roe is overturned, GOPs will very quickly push some sort of national ban, constitutional or not.
Of course they will. Who imagines that they've been fighting for fifty years to "leave it to the states?" And the current Court would let such a ban stand.
bernard11, do you really believe that? = Of course they will. Who imagines that they've been fighting for fifty years to "leave it to the states?" And the current Court would let such a ban stand.
I see zero (meaning...0, a donut, bagel, nada, zilch) appetite at the federal level to ban abortions, regardless of party. The federal government simply does not have the authority to ban abortions. I don't even think a state could completely ban abortions, and states have waaaaay more power over our daily life.
That aside, we don't even know how Dobbs will be decided. Perhaps Justice Kavenaugh was prescient in his line of questioning during arguments, when he asked in effect, 'why not let the people do the hard work of deciding the questions for themselves'. We'll see. If you have not heard the oral argument, make time to listen to it. I thought it was pretty good (except for the annoying open ended questions like, 'How do you react to that, counsel'?). You can hear hints of their personalities in the questions they ask, and the subsequent colloquy.
Pragmatically speaking bernard11, I just don't see a lot changing in terms of abortion, regardless of how the decision comes out. Given that 95% of abortions occur by 15 weeks, what will really change? Answer: Not much. There will be a group of states in 'flyover country', maybe a dozen, that will sort out what they really want over a couple election cycles (a decade); if pre-viability abortions are prohibited at differing times of gestation. For the vast majority of the country, nothing will change because state laws are already in place that govern abortion access (example: NJ ain't changing its very liberal abortion access laws regardless of what SCoTUS decides).
I agree, I don't see any immediate drastic changes. As you say, most abortions are early anyway, in a time frame unlikely to be outlawed, and plenty of 'blue' states are going to continue keeping it legal, often right up to the point of birth or a little beyond.
You'll see a lot of buses parked at Planned Parenthood clinics in 'red' states, that's all.
In fairness, a state could easily include such overt coordination in its ban. I'd expect to see an explosion of tour providers to historic meccas like Shreveport and Albuquerque, though.
Since nobody has been able to elucidate that portion of the Constitution that gives the feds the right to control abortion, the Tenth leaves it to the states - to the laboratories of democracy.
Don't like what your lab is doing? Go to one that is more agreeable.
If you want to make a deal where federal drug prohibition dies, I'm with you.
I wholeheartedly support that goal
"elucidate that portion of the Constitution that gives the feds the right to control abortion"
14th Amendment for a total ban or restrictions.
Commerce Clause for a ban on "abortion tourism" aka interstate travel to obtain an abortion.
Citizens have a right to travel within the states. And the 14th only applies if the fetus is granted citizenship: Make that a fact and we'll be seeing a hell of a lot of murder charges...
"Citizens have a right to travel"
True but its not absolute. They can't take a minor over state lines for immoral purposes.
Ban a doctor or clinic or hospital from doing abortions on non-residents, if you prefer that hook.
"fetus is granted citizenship"
Nope, the clause I quoted applies to "persons", citizen rights are in the first two sentences
Doesn't the "right to travel" derive from substantive due process? Do you two support that doctrine all the time, or only when it suits your purpose?
It seems to me that most of the commentors assume that Congress would pass laws outlawing abortion if Roe is overruled. I think Ilya Somin is suggesting that there may be a greater chance that Congress would restore abortion rights by legislation, citing the Commerce Clause.
Which Congress?
The current one with Manchin and Sinema? Or the next Republican one?
Have a look at abortion and LGBT rights as part of US foreign policy over the years. Democrat president grants LGBT employees rights, Republicans take them away--flipping and flopping every 4-8 years.
You've got a better chance of Republicans simply changing their mind about abortion than getting 50 Democrats+Harris to nuke the filibuster that would inevitably be used. And I doubt the parliamentarian would let them do anything through reconciliation, and they won't ignore that ruling either. Not that McConnell would allow Manchin and Sinema to vote for it anyway.
Besides, the moderate dems will love it. A reason to get people to vote for them without having to make and subsequently break promises on progressive policy.
"And I doubt the parliamentarian would let them"
The Parliamentarian is nothing but an excuse to avoid doing stuff their base wants. See what happens to the Parliamentarian's advice once it gets in the way of something the Congress leaders *really* want.
Absent Roe, current Supreme Court precedent likely gives the federal government considerable power to either restrict or protect abortion rights. But that precedent could potentially be limited in ways advocated by Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas, an unlikely potential savior of abortion rights!
Last week's oral argument in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, showed there is a good chance that the Supreme Court will soon overrule, or at least severely limit abortion rights long protected under Roe v. Wade and subsequent precedents
1: 50 years isn't "long protected"
2: There are no "abortion rights". There's just 5+ members of SCOTUS violating the US Constitution in order to advance their personal political beliefs
3: Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas is a person entirely likely to say "the Federal Gov't has no business in this, that's one of the reasons why Roe / Casey are wrong."
But this state of affairs could change if Congress decided to act. In my view, the text and original meaning of the Constitution do not give Congress any power to restrict abortion
4: It must really suck to be so intellectually and morally bankrupt as to understand that abortion is not something the Federal Gov't may legitimately decide on, but still favor Roe and Casey.
The temperature of the debate will never be lowered. One side thinks that abortion is baby murder, and the other one sees abortion bans as forcing women to carry unwanted pregnancies. The fact that babies are killed or women subjugated across a state line will not placate either side. I predict that the anti-abortion will win by either a SCOTUS ruling saying abortion is unconstitutional or they will break the filibuster to enact a national abortion ban.
" I predict that the anti-abortion will win by either a SCOTUS ruling saying abortion is unconstitutional or they will break the filibuster to enact a national abortion ban. "
In the short term, perhaps. In the long term, it would take a miracle for the side borne by backwardness, bigotry, and superstition to make any important calls in modern America. There just aren't enough uneducated racists, superstitious hayseeds, and backwater rubes left to pull it off, and the demographic tide and economic sifting diminish their prospects each day.
Conservatives, consequent to happenstance and a series of lies offered by judicial nominees, are likely in a strong position to restrict abortion rights substantially.
The longstanding trajectory of American progress and the culture war, however, indicates that conservatives also are in a lousy position to try to defend such an action over the medium (let alone long) term. Just not enough poorly educated racists, childishly superstitious gay-bashers, stale misogynists, selfish xenophobes, backwater rubes, and disaffected clingers left in the America to diminish, let alone reverse, the longstanding and important tide of liberal-libertarian mainstream progress.
So do your damnedest while you have the chance and the power, clingers. Your betters will see you down the road apiece. They will likely recall your conduct when determining how gracious to be in victory.
A believer in Obama's arc of history. Perhaps you could get a gig teaching seminars on that to Uighurs.
You haven't noticed the liberal-libertarian mainstream shaping American progress against the wishes and efforts of conservatives for 50, 60, 70 years?
The culture war may not be over but it has been settled. The clingers have lost.
I don’t know how they expect to get this passed by Congress. Speaker Pelosi might have the power to force her entire caucus to vote for it. But I the Senate? They will be lucky to get 50 votes, with Manchin probably voting against it, trading off with or of the female Republican Senators. But that is 50, and with the filibuster rules, they need 60. Not going to happen.
Bob Casey of PA, like Manchin, is a stated pro-life Democrat. There's not a clear pro-choice majority in the Senate. (Even if Casey and say, Susan Collins, might vote that way in the end as they have on various abortion legislation in the past.)
Collins is expressing support for a federal abortion law in order to deflect from her insistence that Kavanaugh would uphold Roe when she voted to seat him. She can do this effectively because she knows federal protection for abortion is unlikely to overcome any filibuster attempt.
Collins is the most gullible person in the Senate.
Democrats should think about the possible future uses of a filibuster [to block an antiabortion federal law] before they rush to abolish it.
-dk
I disagreed with Raich. And I think there are good policy arguments for Congress not attempting to refederalize the issue. I also doubt abortion itself is an article or instrument of interstate commerce.
But if one looks way back to pre-Raich cases, the Supreme Court didn’t have any trouble upholding the Mann Act in the early 20th century, which at its maximum prohibited crossing state lines for purposes of engaging in sex outside of marriage.
So it seems to me that even under a very narrow conception of interstate commerce, not just pre-Raich but pre-Wickard, Congress would free to either prohibit or facilitate crossing stTe lines for purposes of obtaining an abortion, even if it couldn’t pass a uniform federal abortion law overriding state laws.
Similarly, under current caselaw Congress could probably pass an outright ban on abortion drugs, just as it does for marijuana in Raich. And what Congress can choose to ban, it can probably choose to facilitate. Since abortion drugs are articles of interstate commerce, Congress would probably be able to pre-empt and directly override state bans on them if it wanted to.
I also think that given the even divide in Congress and the support for maintaining the filibuster in the Senate, there’s a good chance Congress wouldn’t take action on the issue, at least not in the near future.
Yes, and that's a good reason why Democrats would regret eliminating the filibuster.
At the same time, if Republicans were to eliminate the filibuster for a federal ban of abortion, they would regret it as soon as the Democrats gained a majority and passed a law packing the Supreme Court.
Republicans aren't going to eliminate the filibuster for legislation. Republican leaders love having it available as an excuse for not holding votes on measures that would expose RINOs, and result in their being primaried.
You really don't need to get to 50+1 in the Senate; instead, you need to get to 38 state legislatures: as Scalia noted many years ago, the Court's biggest fear should be that its opinion can be overruled by Constitutional amendment.
This is a time of great unity in America, but it is a unity that is masked by the dissent of inner-city residents in two states (with slight impact by residents hidden in two additional states). While the majority of citizens might hold one opinion, that majority is not geographically diverse enough to preclude action by the minority of citizens.
The magical vaccination threshold and the magical abortion threshold are similar. In New York [city], 82% of residents are vaccinated, helping the national average to hover around 58% (a majority) even though that majority is a national anomaly. But we do not vote as a nation.
If you can't get 51% of the Senate, you're going to have a hard time getting 75% of the state legislatures.
Not necessarily. Federal politicians and state politicians are hardly interchangeable. And all it takes is one big city with a heavy and very skewed turnout to give Democrats a Senator in a state where most of the state legislators are Republicans.
In fact, Republicans hold 54% of state legislative seats, 62% of state legislative chambers, and both chambers in a lot more states than Democrats. While the federal Senate is 50/50. Not so long ago, they were only a few chambers away from having the votes to hold and control a constitutional convention, and it's not implausible that they would achieve that level of state legislative dominance in the next couple of decades.
It's more likely than getting enough votes in Congress to pass amendments without Democratic votes, that's for sure.
I should clarify that the reason Republicans control 62% of state legislative chambers with only 54% of seats is that California has a lot of state legislators, but still only two chambers.
Gerrymandering has nothing to do with it, of course.
I'm sure congress critters will step in, but congress critters will have a much harder time justifying partial birth abortions than unelected judges. Congress critters will also be more heavily influenced by advancing medical technology, and will be less likely to allow abortion to continue once the artifical womb becomes practical.
The main, apparent purposes of anti-abortionists are: 1) enforcing consequences for perceived immoral behavior, and 2) keeping non-white citizens from forming effective, well-funded voting blocks.
Artificial wombs would shift the moral and financial burden away from women and onto government.
You might want to stop looking in that mirror and engage with your actual philosophical opponents.
I would suggest that the best bet for abortion rights opponents is not to restore the right through Congress but to push for more access to telemedicine. Most abortions today are medically induced. By allowing a patient to consult a doctor across state lines and get a prescription they could negate the need for cross state travel. I suspect that most doctors and nurses approve of abortions and would be willing to take up local care, if they are not put in a position of prescribing or administering the pills. Telemedicine access could also be pushed as helping all patients, so it is not singled out for abortion providers.
This won't work. Take a look at how Texas quickly closed the mail-order Plan B abortion pill loophole. It is a felony to provide the pill for abortions after 7 weeks in Texas. And, it's a crime to send the pill by mail in Texas. Telemedicine will run into the same barrier.
If it is lawful to prescribe medication by telephone and to place the medication in the mail in the jurisdiction in which a doctor practices, how would Texas (or any other backwater jurisdiction) impose its archaic, superstition-based rules on that physician? How would Texas detect the relevant conduct? How would Texas possess jurisdiction over the physician?
These clingers can keep flailing, but over the medium to long term they are doomed. Which is great.
If the Democrats wanted to ensure abortion access across the country, the solution isn't to pass federal abortion protections as those will be easily overturned by the GOP the next time they're in the majority. The solution is to pass voting rights laws that make gerrymandering and voting restrictions harder to accomplish. As long as state legislatures aren't truly representative of their own population, "states rights" won't have the weight of the state's citizenry behind it. The American people decide things in competitive elections, which cannot exist in the cracked and stacked reality of many states these days.
"The solution is to pass voting rights laws that make gerrymandering and voting restrictions harder to accomplish."
In half the states where that would matter at all, it would hurt the Democrats.