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Abortion, Marbury v. Madison, and What's "Written in the Constitution"
The oft-heard argument that something isn't "written in the Constitution" is not as compelling as it might seem. Sometimes, it's outright false.
Conservative critics of Roe v. Wade have long argued that it is wrong in part because the right to abortion is nowhere written in the Constitution. Thus, it's no surprise that the issue came up in today's oral argument in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, the case that could lead to the overruling of Roe. Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor offered the following response, while questioning Mississippi Solicitor General Scott Stewart:
Justice Sonia Sotomayor turned to Mississippi's arguments that Roe v. Wade should be overturned because abortion rights are not explicitly laid out in the text of the Constitution.
Sotomayor noted that several key decisions – such as Marbury v. Madison, which established the judicial review – are not in the Constitution, nor are decisions guaranteeing the right to birth control and same-sex marriage.
"I fear none of those things are written in the Constitution," Sotomayor said. "They have all, like Marbury v. Madison, been discerned from the nature of the Constitution."
Neither the initial argument nor Sotomayor's critique are as compelling as they might seem. It is true that a right to abortion is nowhere specifically mentioned in the Constitution. If it were, that would have made Roe and subsequent cases much easier to decide. But it doesn't necessarily follow that there is no constitutional right to abortion.
Some parts of the Constitution establish very clear and specific rules, such as that each state gets two senators, and that the president must be at least 35 years old. But many others state broad, general principles that courts must then apply to specific cases. The Constitution doesn't specifically establish a right to criticize the president in vitriolic terms. But it does include a general right protecting "freedom of speech," which courts can then readily apply to protect people who put up signs saying things like "Fuck Biden" and "Biden sucks."
Similarly, the case for a right to abortion comes down to whether that right falls within the scope of broadly phrased parts of the text, such as the "liberty" protected by the Due Process clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, or the "equal protection of the laws" (also part of the Fourteenth Amendment). Some defenders of Roe argue that a right to abortion is necessary to ensure "equal protection" for women.
For her part, Justice Sotomayor is wrong to suggest that judicial review isn't written in the Constitution, but must be inferred from its "nature." The idea that judicial review is an atextual power that was somehow invented by John Marshall in Marbury v. Madison is a longstanding trope. But it's wrong, nonetheless. Article III of the Constitution specifically states that "The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority."
The power to decide "all Cases… arising under this Constitution" necessarily includes the power to rule that state and federal laws violate the Constitution and therefore cannot be enforced. Judicial review was widely understood to exist long before Marbury, and that case was far from the first time federal courts invalidated a law because of its unconstitutionality. State courts also had a long history of judicial review, including pathbreaking decisions striking down slavery as a violation of the Massachusetts Constitution.
As for the other cases Sotomayor cites, they, like the argument for a right to abortion, are based on interpretations of broad, general rights guaranteed by the Constitution. For example, the right to same-sex marriage was grounded by the Court in a combination of the Due Process and Equal Protection clauses. In my view, it would have been better justified based on a more straightforward application of equal protection rules barring sex discrimination. But, either way, the case for that right relies on interpretation of broad textual guarantees of liberty and equality, not inferences from the inherent "nature" of the Constitution.
None of the above by itself determines whether the Constitution protects a right to abortion (an issue I will leave to others). But it can help clear away some of the underbrush of bad arguments surrounding the question. The issue cannot be resolved simply by pointing out that abortion isn't specifically mentioned in the Constitution, or by appealing to widely believed, but badly misguided myths about the origin of judicial review.
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The issue was the strategy the court came up with to protect abortion (or more accurately mandating abortion for all states) can and has been used to basically allow you to do anything you want.
"Some defenders of Roe argue that a right to abortion is necessary to ensure "equal protection" for women."
Then they're not "defenders of Roe," they're defenders of the result but not of the reasoning. Roe's reasoning, if you want to call it that, was about due process not equal protection.
Expecting adequate distinctions from Somin is like expecting a dog to provide algebra proofs.
To be fair, one would have to be pretty stupid to make that argument in the first place, so it would be unsurprising that such a "defender" was also unfamiliar with the actual text of Roe.
I look forward to the passionate arguments from those "defenders" that requiring health insurance to cover pregnancy, ovarian cancer, prostate cancer and sickle cell anemia also violate the Equal Protection Clause.
Similarly, the case for a right to abortion comes down to whether that right comes within the scope of broadly phrased parts of the text, such as the "liberty" protected by the Due Process clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments
Can we agree that none of the other rights protected explicitly in the Bill of Rights would be included in the "liberty" that is protected in the Fifth Amendment? If so, one then wonders what characteristics of the right to abortion that qualify it for this protection are absent from these other rights.
The incorporation cases would seem to indicate that your premise is wrong.
SCOTUS decisions are presumptively trash, so, no, no SCOTUS decision indicates anything without further argument.
Any claim that abortion is right protected by the FIFTH Amendment is, as swood indicates, simply bizarre. Such a claim is simply too remote from the 5th subject matter.
Nothing bizarre about it. A federal prohibition of abortion prior to viability would be a deprivation of liberty without due process of law contrary to the Fifth Amendment guaranty.
Perhaps we can understand what was meant by “liberty” by reading Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England. From the chapter “The Absolute Rights of Individuals”:
Though I suppose the terms “life, liberty, or property” in the 5th and 14th amendments are not the same life, liberty and property described by Blackstone as the three absolute rights of individuals.
swood1000, you are mistaken. As a matter of history, all of the rights protected explicitly in the Bill of rights are included in the, "liberty," that is protected in the Constitution. Here is Hurtado v. California (1884):
Due process of law in the [Fourteenth Amendment] refers to that law of the land in each state which derives its authority from the inherent and reserved powers of the state, exerted within the limits of those fundamental principles of liberty and justice which lie at the base of all our civil and political institutions, and the greatest security for which resides in the right of the people to make their own laws, and alter them at their pleasure.
When the Court says, "in the right of the people to make their own laws, and alter them at their pleasure," that language is an unmistakable reference to the founders' typical meaning whenever, "liberty," is invoked in context of the structure of government. That meaning is not a Lockean invocation of civil rights, based in the sanctity of the individual. It is instead reference to Hobbesean notions about the power of the sovereign—in the founders' interpretation the people jointly acting as the popular sovereign, with power (alike with a king's power) to decree rights "at their pleasure."
That chronic confusion about the founders and their meaning of, "liberty," seems to be traceable to a post-founding-era fad for Lockean interpretation of the Constitution, which appealed to southerners extolling their, "Lost Cause." By the 20th century that post-founding interpretation had made its way into civics class texts across the nation. The Lockean interpretation became so widely taught that the founders' original meaning for, "liberty,"—roughly, the unlimited power of the joint popular sovereign (national, or state, subject to the supremacy clause) to govern at pleasure—had been all but forgotten.
Nevertheless, that founders' meaning of, "liberty," is found alike throughout the Declaration of Independence, in the Constitution, in the resolves of the First Continental Congress, and famously in use by Madison in Federalist 10, among many other places in the historical record. It is a meaning so consistently followed that it ought to leap off the many pages where it can be seen. But prejudices taught all but universally in grade schools across the nation have laid down a nearly impermeable barrier between modern constitutionalism as it is generally understood, and the founders' meaning of, "liberty," as it can actually be seen in use in founding era documents.
I don't offer this comment as any kind of key to unraveling controversies about Dobbs. I am not myself an originalist.
I do think, however, that the modern prejudice for Lockean interpretations of, "Liberty," in founding-era documents mostly adds confusion to any effort to use the Constitution as a guide in the Dobbs controversy, or any other controversy where it happens—which are frequent. I take your comment above as an example of that confusion.
Never mind the fact that the Declaration is almost a verbatim repeat of Locke. It was Hobbes all along... who knew?!?
Never mind the fact that the Declaration is almost a verbatim repeat of Locke
sparkstable, no it isn't. Not even close. Most of the Declaration is a bill of particulars, citing specific complaints as examples of the general principles for which the Declaration stands. There are many such complaints. Guess what? Almost none of them have even tangential connection to any Lockean interpretation of rights. They are nearly all about offenses against the colonies' claims to a right of self-government.
That is why 20th century civics classes always skipped past most of the Declaration, treating the bulk of it as incongruously irrelevant. There was no way to square the particular examples with the alleged Lockean framework they were supposed to demonstrate. It was confusing, so the solution chosen was just to ignore the vast majority of the Declaration, and instead re-assert the Lockean interpretation—while incuriously ignoring omission of Locke's, "Property," and eliding any need to explain in Lockean terms the meaning of, "Liberty."
You got taught in that slipshod way, and you bought it. But I will bet you had unanswered questions, right from the start.
Try looking at it anew. Try, just for the sake of argument, objecting to every explanation which seems inconsistent with what you find, or which presents an apparently inexplicable, beside-the-point non-illustration of the principles you think the Declaration was about.
Here is a hint for getting started:
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
When you see that, try to notice that it is not a doctrine of personal rights, but instead a textbook definition of national sovereignty. What it declares is a right to rule at pleasure, but on behalf of a new kind of sovereign, a popular sovereign instead of a king.
If you can see that much, then you are a short step from answering the one lingering question you probably have. It's the bit about, "To secure these rights." If that does not refer to Lockean rights, what does it refer to? Look what immediately preceded it: "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness." Define, "Liberty," the way the founders defined it, as access to the power of self government, and the use of that power to secure whatever other rights they chose to decree, and you have the whole answer. And here it is explicitly, from the Declaration and Resolves of the First Continental Congress:
Resolved, 4. That the foundation of English liberty, and of all free government, is a right in the people to participate in their legislative council: and as the English colonists are not represented, and from their local and other circumstances, cannot properly be represented in the British parliament, they are entitled to a free and exclusive power of legislation in their several provincial legislatures, where their right of representation can alone be preserved, in all cases of taxation and internal polity, subject only to the negative of their sovereign, in such manner as has been heretofore used and accustomed . . . :
This is one of the more substanitive exchanges that I have read in this forum in years! Bravo.
I do need to do some more reading, and thinking on this, but I would tend to agree that the opening of the Declaration of Independence is indeed cribbed from Locke. Reading the first dozen or so sections of the Second Treatise, I found myself underlining concluding final paragraph statements that find their way, quite recognizably, into the Declaration.
As to the rest, and a concept of a Hobbesean liberty, wow, that's gonna take some more reading!
Good job just the same!
Resolved, 4. That the foundation of English liberty, and of all free government, is a right in the people to participate in their legislative council
Then why, despite the 5th amendment guarantee against the deprivation of liberty without due process of law, was there a property requirement for voting?
Blackstone said that life, liberty and property were the three absolute rights of individuals in the laws of England. He described what was meant by liberty. Was he right? Was this influential in drafting the Constitution and Declaration of Independence?
"But many others state broad, general principles that courts must then apply to specific cases. The Constitution doesn't specifically establish a right to criticize the president in vitriolic terms."
I think that example is a bit of a stretch; You could equally say that the Constitution doesn't specifically establish a right to read pages from the dictionary at random. The point is, it basically doesn't matter what you're saying, for 1st amendment purposes, so there isn't really much work involved in applying the 1st amendment to specific utterances.
There are, of course, specific exceptions to the 1st amendment's protection of speech, but none of them are particularly textual.
Bingo—which is why the “geography clause” canard Republicans throw out with the respect to the 2A is do disingenuous.
But this line of reasoning (saying rights must written in the Constitution) is why it was necessary for Scalia to employ liberal constructionism when interpreting the 2A because in general the conservative judicial philosophies want fewer liberties and the way one limits liberties is to say rights must be in the text of the Constitution. So had Scalia merely incorporated Cruikshank then that would mean both major judicial philosophies would be open to expanding liberties beyond the text of the Constitution.
Somin arguments have the depth and insight one usually attributes to a soap bubble. The guy is a cretin.
No, I don't think so. He's just trained to think like a lawyer, and lawyers undergo a lot of training to think all sorts of crazy precedents and doctrines are reasonable, because it does you no good to think logically and sensibly and lose in court.
Yeah, "The Constitution doesn't specifically establish a right to criticize the president in vitriolic terms" is a particularly silly...even childishly simple-minded...argument.
There is, course, nothing that is written in the Constitution about a lot of things that parties on all sides take as Constitutional. Abortion is unique though in that it represents the clash between two irreconcilable factors, the right of a woman to control her body (as in the anti-maskers, anti-vaxers who claim the government cannot tell them what to do with their body or force them to take some action respect to their body. Yes, the irony is manifest that many of these same people want the government to tell women what to do with their bodies with respect to reproduction) and the rights of a fertilized ova.
The genius of Roe is that regardless of the legal basis, it was a most reasonable compromise, women control their bodies up to viability, after that their ability to terminate pregnancy can be regulated. And now of course the Court appears poised to disrupt that compromise.
Two things are near certain here. One is that the Court will not overrule Roe because of the political ramifications, so somehow they will craft language which eliminates Roe's viability language and puts in place some language that pretends to retain Roe but in effect does not. This is what the Cowardice Coalition of the Court does.
The second thing is that the CJ will almost certainly side with the anti-abortion rights faction. The reason is that this will enable him to write an opinion in which he will try, and probably fail, to limit the political damage. Otherwise Clarence will assign himself the opinion and the political damage to the Republicans ahead of the 2022 election will be massive. More than anything else the six Republican Justices want Republicans to take over government, and so will do anything and everything they can to see that this happens.
And yet, roughly 60% of Americans, according to Pew research, believe abortion should be legal in all or most situations.
There's been a lot of this sorta thing going on recently. Large percentages of Americans believe one way and the elected GOP judges/politicians/officials ignore them, do the opposite, and keep their jobs.
The upside for the GOP is that this is sure to put a lot of abortion-related legislation on the ballot for the 2024 election.
"And yet, roughly 60% of Americans, according to Pew research, believe abortion should be legal in all or most situations."
About 18 % of Americans take that "all" stance, and outside the 1st trimester, purely elective abortion does very badly. (It just does badly in the 1st, without a "very".)
All abortions are not presently permitted. A state is authorized to criminalize abortion after viability (subject to a required exception to preserve maternal health).
"Abortion-related legislation" has never been the problem with Roe. The problem with Roe is and always has been that it is an attempt to put the political questions of how to regulate abortion effectively outside the ambit of legislation. Thinking this was "genius" is demented. It was stupid and wrong.
And Republicans are about to be the proverbial dog that caught the car. That said TRAP laws have done all of the hard work for Republicans and the prevalence of IVF has done the hard work for Democrats…and so in red states like Texas and Florida they will allow killing embryos based on genetic testing for wealthy people while poor people will have to live with the results of getting knocked up.
Then it should be a simple matter for that 60% to enact their policy preferences into law by electing pro-choice state legislators in the overwhelming majority of states.
Elections often demonstrate that polls are inaccurate.
Or that gerrymandering beats polling when it comes to predicting election outcomes. When 538 perfects a gerrymandering adjustment to apply to each of its aggregated political polls, it will become awesomely accurate.
"The genius of Roe is that regardless of the legal basis, it was a most reasonable compromise..."
That's quite a remarkable sentence. It's a real-life version of "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?"
If from a personal point of view you believe abortion is murder then your statement is correct with respect to yourself.
But just believing something is true does not make it true. There are people who just as passionately believe that it is the woman, not the government who should decide whether or not to carry a fetus that is not viable to term. In fact, conservatives who believe that individuals, not the government should make decision about personal conduct should applaud Roe.
Finally, if what you want is to have abortion rights expanded rather than curtailed or eliminated, just go ahead and overturn Roe. That will do it.
No, I think you missed the point of my criticism.
Touting Roe as a reasonable compromise regardless of whether it's legal or not is quite mistaken. If it was illegal it's not a reasonable compromise.
FTFY.
There are two parts to Roe Vs Wade
As a policy, it's the most reasonable compromise, using 20 weeks as a dividing line where an embryo becomes enough of a person to gain legal protections.
As a judicial ruling, it's hash. The more you look into it the less sense it makes. It reads a right to privacy in to the constitution and then claim that bans on abortion violate this brand new right. Following this logic, the government cannot ban any medical procedure, up to and including gay conversion therapy or assisted suicide.
That's the heck of it, they announce this basic right, that has all sorts of implications, and then refuse to apply it to anything except abortion. The case where they had the least excuse applying it!
The fundamental rights to procreate and to avoid procreation were recognized prior to Roe.
Nobody's fundamental right to avoid procreation have been violated. Avoiding procreation is easy, if in fact you are at all concerned with avoiding it.
I'm in favor of a right to privacy that protects all decisions involving your own body, and even in favor of finding it in the Constitution (although i'm not convinced its really a 5th amendment thing), but it really should apply to *all* such decisions. SCOTUS cowardice in failing to apply this to the war on drugs, assisted suicide, and similar issues is just that, cowardice.
If you're going to have a principle, stick to it. Especially when its unpopular.
Squirrelloid, problem with that reasoning is heavy reliance on argument by analogy. If you think you have sound analogies, but they somehow deliver interpretations with which the entire public generally disagrees, you ought to at least suspect a flaw in your analogies.
these same people want the government to tell women what to do with their bodies with respect to reproduction
That is, of course, utter horse shit. Abortion does something not just to a woman's body, but also to a living entity that is, while present inside the woman's body, a genetically distinct human life (by any biological definition of that term). This is why the only meaningful debate is with regard to whether or not that human life constitutes a "person", and if that is what is required in order to possess what is generally referred to as a human right to life.
It is amazing that so many people who have commented have taken the position that they are so absolutely correct that they do not even need to acknowledge, refute or consider that there may be a credible difference of opinion. Or that they and government can dictate the way that women lead their lives.
The reason that they rely on government coercion is that they cannot make the case for the rightness of their position. Thhis is the way of all tyrants.
And finally, let everyone know that if the total ban on abortion takes place the police, the prosecutors and ultimately the prisons will be consumed with jailing women for the crime of involuntary manslaughter when they have a spontaneous miscarriage. Because that has to be the logical step when a society believes that the death of a fetus is criminal.
But of course none of them will admit it, will they?
Anti-abortion zealots typically run like scalded dogs when asked what penalty they would impose upon a woman who procures her own abortion.
It is amazing that so many people who have commented have taken the position that they are so absolutely correct that they do not even need to acknowledge, refute or consider that there may be a credible difference of opinion.
My comment had nothing at all to do with your or anyone else's "opinion". I cited verifiable facts in order to explain why your claim was horse shit. Made up crap isn't "credible opinion". It's propaganda.
Sidney, well. If the fetus is a human individual with rights, nothing else matters. The basic principle of our criminal law is that the only time you are allowed to kill someone is to stop the death of yourself or others. A parent cannot murder their preschool or teenage child because they no longer want to be a parent. The arguments about freedom and personal choice are irrelevant. Even if they leave the child, they will be forced to pay child support.
I find many pro-abortion activists to be committing ignorantio elenchi. They dance around the existence of a child because they know there is no counterpoint and no compromise possible. It will devolve into an "uh-huh, nu-huh" argument.
Anti-abortion activists (most of them anyway, though not the ones who get on the news), on the other hand, tend to acknowledge that there are no good stories that end in an abortion clinic and that many of the women are desperate. They consider it comparable to someone who is suicidal.
"The genius of Roe" turns out to be a short-term compromise. Viability in the 2020's is radically different from the 1970's.
This is another example of politicians believing they can weasel out of difficult decisions by appealing to science (or technology). A similar weasel is the Delany Amendment about toxicity levels being determined by the limits of analysis. It didn't take long for analytical chemistry to be so improved that all of a sudden, even trace amounts inadvertently present in something rendered that thing legally "toxic".
And we're all living through "follow the science" as if that will give the correct societal answers to how to deal with Covid and climate.
Roe needs to be fixed (I'm not sure in which direction), but it needs to be done by Congress, not SCOTUS.
Fat chance of that happening.....
"For her part, Justice Sotomayor is wrong to suggest that judicial review isn't written in the Constitution, but must be inferred from its "nature.""
"The power to decide "all Cases… arising under this Constitution" necessarily includes the power to rule that state and federal laws violate the Constitution and therefore cannot be enforced."
In the second sentence, Somin infers the power of judicial review from the written text of the Constitution. This would support Sotomayor's claim that the power to strike down laws is not explicitly provided for in the text of the document. I agree that the power of judicial review can be logically inferred from the text of the Constitution, and courts exercised this power prior to Marbury. But, that is different from saying "Clause x of the Constitution specifically grants federal courts the power to strike down laws."
That's not much of an inference, deciding that "all cases" includes specific cases.
Actually, it is
Particularly as the concept of the Supreme Court's decision being the final say is what Marbury is famous for (as opposed to the Court having jurisdiction but Congress or the President being free to ignore them as coequal branches) and that is not explicitly written in the Constitution and must be inferred.
Moreover, even though the Constitution says "all cases" the Court itself has determined that the text doesn't really mean "all cases" because some cases involve a "political question" which takes them out of the Court's purview. Granted, the Court itself is making that determination, but it does so based on inferences from the Constitutional text and structure, not from any explicit mandate or direction.
Expand.
NOVA Lawyer said it well just above. As a general principle, I have trouble understanding how anyone that has passed the bar and has experience in the legal industry and went to law school gets to the conclusion that all rights are enumerated in the constitution and there are no inferences made in constitutional law except for Roe. It's just flat-out absurd.
Somin in entirely full of shit. That "The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution" does not grant the court the remedy of overturning laws, merely that of hearing cases under them. Marbery ended with Marshall cleverly avoiding the provision of a remedy and the one thing he got right in that unconscionable power grab (his obligation to recuse is obvious) was that the Court had no remedy to offer.
But the Court doesn't "overturn" laws. They remain on the books, they remain laws. The Court just announces that the Constitution prohibits enforcement of them, and since the lower courts are bound by that precedent, the law subject to such a ruling is no longer enforceable.
Gandy,
I find it very useful to look at a counterpoint.
What would happen if MvM was found the other way? That the courts had to enforce laws, even if they were unconstitutional.
Think for five minutes, and I find it inexorable that it would make the constitution meaningless, or at least arbitrary. After all, if the court cannot refuse to enforce a law that is illegal, who can? This would make the constitution just a political speech on parchment that has more value in an outhouse than Congress.
Then, when two laws conflict, which law should the court enforce? Obviously they have to straighten this out, which part and parcel of the judicial review in MvM.
So please, enlighten me. How can your government work if there is no MvM?
Doesn't the 9th amendment deserve some kind of mention here?
Certainly, did the people retain the right to abort at the time of the Bill of Rights? When the abortion laws were made stricter around the mid-19th century,* was there any protest based on the 9th Amendment or other constitutional provision (like the 14th)?
This isn't like Jim Crow, which was protested against *at the time it was adopted* and its unconstitutionality specifically pointed out - but the segregationists used their political power to override the constitutional objections. As I recall it, when the abortion laws were passed there were no constitutional objections to be overridden - the constitutional objections didn't come up until later generations thought them up.
*I'm not conceding that abortion was legal previously, but it was often tied to the scientifically-inaccurate "quickening" theory.
That's basically equivalent to asking whether the original meaning of the 2nd amendment includes machine guns. Abortion as we know it today didn't exist at the time of the founding.
"Abortion as we know it today didn't exist at the time of the founding."
Abortion existed.
I'm sure there's some reason the words "as we know it today" were in that statement.
That said, of course the original meaning of the 2nd amendment includes machine guns. It's a right to be equipped in the same fashion as your nation's soldiers. Does the government not issue machine guns to soldiers?
No ultrasound or pregnancy tests sure would make for a different environment.
Why, you'd have to ask the woman about her body!
Excerpt from the Hippocratic Oath.
"I will use those dietary regimens which will benefit my patients according to my greatest ability and judgment, and I will do no harm or injustice to them. Neither will I administer a poison to anybody when asked to do so, nor will I suggest such a course. Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion. "
Abortion has been around in various forms since the classical period, and the Greeks considered it a form of deadly medicine sufficient enough to ban its use in an oath. To say that the founders would never have thought of such things is unlikely, to say the least.
Abortion wasn't legal previously. It was illegal as a matter of common, not statutory, law. But only after 'quickening', as that was thought to be when the fetus became alive. (And because, as a practical matter, nobody could prove she was pregnant prior to that.)
I'm not sure why you think the 9th amendment requires the right to be recognized explicitly when the Bill of Rights was adopted. Remember that most of the founders would have believed that rights were pre-existent and governments were instituted to protect them. As such, if you could demonstrate something was a right, the 9th amendment should inhibit the government from revoking it, whether it was ever previously formally recognized as such or not.
Squirrelloid, whenever you find yourself writing, "most of the founders would have believed," you can be certain you are doing history wrong. As soon as you get as far as, "would have," it is time for sober reflection.
Why would it? SCOTUS has pretended the 9th amendment hasn't existed for over 200 years - why start now?
I'm not sure that's quite accurate. They just have never been able to figure out which unenumerated rights they should enforce. And why should it be just unenumerated rights that existed in 1789? Does the amendment say that?
Sure, the 9th applies. It always applies (or should at least).
But to whom? The woman or the baby?
"Aye, there's the rub"
"The oft-heard argument that something isn't "written in the Constitution" is not as compelling as it might seem. Sometimes, it's outright false."
So there are indeed some things that are written in the Constitution? Fascinating.
Why so much convoluted thinking to pretend there is no Ninth Amendment?
Other rights retained by the people and referred to in the 9th amendment are not enforceable by the federal government against the states.
Says who? I thought we were doing originalism.
Not originally enforceable against the states. But then the 14th amendment was passed. As a textual and originalist matter, that incorporated *all* rights against the states (as privileges and immunities). Sure, SCOTUS has actually incorporated rights piecemeal, but the 14th amendment pretty obviously demands all rights are guaranteed against the states, too. Incorporation as an originalist matter should have been immediate and all-encompassing, including the 9th.
Well, I'd say not the 9th, only in the sense that the 9th doesn't guarantee any rights, as such, any more than the 10th does. It sets out a rule of interpretation: Lack of mention of a right in the Constitution can't be used as a legal argument that it doesn't exist. That particular argument is barred, constitutionally, from our courts.
Reading the congressional debate, Amendments 1-8 were considered to be just a starting point, all rights of citizens were to be incorporated, whether mentioned or not.
Nope. At best, the 14th amendment arguably incorporated the enumerated rights against the States. But even that is not how many of them understood it, it's not what the supreme court held for over half a century, and it's an inversion of the basic structure of federalism this country was founded on.
At best, the 14th amendment arguably incorporated the enumerated rights against the States.
Where does it say that?
Ilya Somin is a baby-killing SOB -- SCREW HIM!
The power to decide "all Cases… arising under this Constitution" necessarily includes the power to rule that state and federal laws violate the Constitution and therefore cannot be enforced.
Well, not "necessarily". There are all sorts of disputes that arise under the Constitution that the courts have been perfectly happy to hold that they have no power to decide, for example because they are a "political question".
To take the OG example, Dr. Bonham's case arose under the constitution of England. The dispute was properly before the court. But that doesn't mean that Lord Coke was right to say that he had the power to refuse to enforce a properly enacted Act of Parliament.
Sure, but it's the courts that hold that, not the legislature or executive.
Then you're back to papal infallibility: He's not the highest authority because he's infallible, he's infallible because he's the highest authority.
(Sorry, I've heard it put more pithily, but it won't come to me right now.)
I think Justice Sotomeyer is basically write that overruling Roe would tend to cast doubt on the cases that depended on it.
Bowers v. Hardwick attempted to distinguish Roe from the idea that sodomy laws were in unconstitutional. Perhaps a sort of reverse Bowers v. Hardwick argument could be made. But the logic suggesting that Bowers was inconsistent with Roe’s logical implications also suggest that there is some inconsistency between Lawrence and the implications ofRoe’s reversal.
Assuming that there were such a thing as a "gay gene," would homophobic women have the right to abort their gay fetuses?
I would say 'find your own blog, bigot,' . . . but this is the blog for bigots.
Yes they would, prior to viability. The reasons for choosing abortion, like other thoughtcrimes, are beyond the ken of governmental inquiry.
" The Constitution doesn't specifically establish a right to criticize the president in vitriolic terms. But it does include a general right protecting "freedom of speech," which courts can then readily apply to protect people who put up signs saying things like "Fuck Biden" and "Biden sucks."
From an originalist (shudder) point of view, that application would seem to be wrong, since many framers and ratifiers supported the Alien and Sedition laws.
It's a States issue to decide not the Federal Govt. Or you can get a constitutional amendment passed. The SC should have never taken the original Roe v Wade case. I will say this..overturn Roe v Wade and blue woke states will legalize abortion up to birth.
Another reason for the country to think about a national divorce.
Can a general right to privacy that is found in the “penumbras,” or zones, created by the specific guarantees of several amendments in the Bill of Rights, including the First, Third, Fourth, and Ninth Amendments also be applied to rights in the Second Amendment?
Can you give us an example, that is not already covered by the Second Amendment, where that would be the case?
Gun registration?
To paraphrase Justice Kavanaugh, the Constitution is neutral as to whether there is a fundamental right to procreation, which is not mentioned in the text. Does that mean that states have authority to compel vasectomies and/or tubal ligations? Compare, Skinner v. Oklahoma ex rel. Williamson, 316 U.S. 535 (1942), and Buck v. Bell, 274 U.S. 200 (1927).
SCOTUS has never initially recognized a fundamental personal right and subsequently overruled that recognition. If stare decisis is disregarded here, what will be the next target of social conservatives? Griswold v. Connecticut? Lawrence v. Texas? Obergefell v. Hodges? Loving v. Virginia? https://reason.com/volokh/2021/09/22/theres-no-constitutional-right-to-interracial-or-same-sex-marriage-says-the-architect-of-the-texas-heartbeat-bill/