The Volokh Conspiracy
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Two More Lawyers Sanctioned for Filing Frivolous Election Challenges
A federal magistrate judge in Colorado orders two attorneys to pay over $180K in fees to cover defendants' legal costs.
Earlier this year a federal judge ordered "Kraken" lawyers to pay sanctions for filing frivolous and unfounded challenges to the 2020 presidential election results. This week, a federal magistrate judge in Colorado has ordered two lawyers who filed a putative class action suit on behalf of American voters to cough up over $180,000 in sanctions to cover the legal fees of the state and private company defendants in their ludicrous suit.
The Washington Post reports:
The two lawyers, Gary D. Fielder and Ernest John Walker, filed the case in December 2020 as a class action on behalf of 160 million American voters, alleging there was a complicated plot to steal the election from President Donald Trump and give the victory to Joe Biden.
The two argued that a scheme was engineered by the voting machine vendor Dominion Voting Systems; the tech company Facebook, its founder Mark Zuckerberg and his wife, Priscilla Chan; and elected officials in four states. They had sought $160 billion in damages.
Their case was dismissed in April. In August, Neureiter ruled that the attorneys had violated their ethical obligations by filing it in the first place, arguing that the duo had run afoul of legal rules that prohibit clogging the courts with frivolous motions and lodging information in court that is not true. At the time, he called their suit "the stuff of which violent insurrections are made," alleging they made little effort to determine the truth of their conspiratorial claims before filing them in court. He ordered them to pay the legal fees of all of the many entities that they had sued.
From the magistrate judge's order:
The sanction awards that I impose are reasonable in light of the magnitude of the case and the number of issues to be addressed. Indeed, the sanction award is probably lower than it would be if market lawyer rates were being used. The total amount the two Plaintiffs' counsel will have to jointly pay, adding in the stipulated awards to the States, will be approximately $186,922, which I find to be an adequate sanction award to send the appropriate message and deter such misconduct in the future, without being unnecessarily punitive.
I do recognize that the two Plaintiff's counsel are individuals, and not corporate entities, and that regardless of how successful their law practices may be, a more than $90,000 sanction award (per lawyer) will likely impose a degree of financial hardship. To this extent, I have tried to take into account their respective abilities to pay. . . .
I have also considered the severity of the violation here, which was expounded upon at length in the original sanctions order. But it bears repeating that, as officers of the Court, these attorneys have a higher duty and calling that requires meaningful investigation before prematurely repeating in court pleadings unverified and uninvestigated defamatory rumors that strike at the heart of our democratic system and were used by others to foment a violent insurrection that threatened our system of government.
In assessing the amount of the sanction, I also take into account the fact that Plaintiffs' counsel made a public appeal for financial contributions from arguably innocent and gullible members of the public in order to supposedly hire experts to support this case. . . . In reality, as disclosed at the hearing on sanctions, Plaintiffs' counsel hired no experts, either before or after filing the Complaints, and did not speak to any of the alleged experts that were being used in other cases around the country. Given the apparent lack of standing to bring this case—and its likely failure given the existing Supreme Court precedent on the issue of standing—as well as the failure to hire or speak to any expert witnesses to support the underlying factual assertions in the Complaints, this financial appeal to the public for financial contributions was arguably deceptive.
I also take into account the risk that this substantial sanction might chill zealous advocacy for potentially legitimate claims. But I conclude that the repetition of defamatory and potentially dangerous unverified allegations is the kind of "advocacy" that needs to be chilled. Counsel should think long and hard, and do significant pre filing research and verification, before ever filing a lawsuit like this again. As explained previously, this was a damages case with no need for urgency or immediate injunctive relief, and therefore there was no legitimate basis for filing suit without being certain about the claims. I do not believe that sanctioning these lawyers for this lawsuit threatens to chill appropriate legitimate legal advocacy in the future.
I have also considered the degree of counsel's culpability, which is significant. This was not a client-generated lawsuit. This is exclusively a creation of the Plaintiff's counsel. They are experienced lawyers who should have known better. They need to take responsibility for their misconduct. Defendants have been significantly prejudiced, not just because they have had to incur legal fees to defend this pointless and unjustified lawsuit, but because they have been defamed, without justification, in public court filings. Finally, I believe that rather than a legitimate use of the legal system to seek redress for redressable grievances, this lawsuit has been used to manipulate gullible members of the public and foment public unrest. To that extent, this lawsuit has been an abuse of the legal system and an interference with the machinery of government. For all these reasons, I feel that a significant sanctions award is merited. I also feel that the amounts awarded are to some degree consistent with the "victim centered . . . compensatory mechanism" of sanctions anticipated under 28 U.S.C. § 1927.
The sanctioned attorneys apparently intend to appeal.
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Speaking of frivolous election related court cases...
Bob Woodward, tollbooth records undercut Jan. 6 panel claim Kerik attended secret D.C. meeting
"Earlier this month, the Jan. 6 commission in Congress made headlines when it issued a subpoena alleging lawmakers had "credible evidence" that on the day before the Capitol riot former New York Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik attended a meeting at the posh Willard Hotel in Washington where Trump advisers discussed how to overturn the November 2020 election.
The subpoena even cited an impressive source: a book by famed investigative journalist Bob Woodward. You can read that here: [Link omitted to avoid going into moderation limbo.]
There's just one problem for Chairman Bennie Thompson (D-Miss.) and his investigators.
Kerik was 300 miles away in the New York City area on Jan. 5, 2021, according to his own car's toll booth records reviewed by Just the News. He left Washington the night of Jan. 4 and did not return until the morning of the riots, according to Kerik's own account at a speech this weekend in Chicago.
And that book by Woodward? It makes no claim about Kerik attending a meeting at the Willard on Jan. 5. In fact, the book doesn’t even mention the former NYPD commission once in its 482 pages."
Say, aren't fraudulent subpoenas sanctionable?
We can pursue and punish every bit of 'misinformation' from the Republican camp to the ends of the earth with state resources but Democratic misinform- I mean unproven but intriguing theories such as the possible fact that Kyle Rittenhouse shot black people dead and the Jan 6th riot was the only riot in history, and Diebold rigging the election for Bush (I can't remember, is Diebold the bad voting machine company that its okay to alleged possibly rigged the election for Republicans without evidence or the good voting machine company that is a crazy lunatic conspiracy theory to allege rigged the election for Dems? Oh well doesn't matter....) must be allowed to swirl around and stew for the good for free speech and discourse.
Bush did steal the 2000 election…and then lied us into an asinine war while mismanaging another war. And Bush’s brother admitted in court he was receiving millions of dollars from a Chinese semiconductor company at the same time his brother was the president and selling us out to China. Everyone remembers Bush’s 2008 victory lap at the Beijing Olympics as America was falling into the Great Recession.
No. Bush did NOT steal the 2000 election. He was duly elected, based on every single piece of available evidence. You're spreading a lie by saying that.
All evidence says had Harris behaved like Rafensberger in GA in 2020 then Gore would have won…if you supported Trump’s recount requests in 2020 you should have supported Gore’s recount request in 2000. If you believe Gore was attempting to steal the 2000 election by requesting a recount then you believe Trump attempted to steal the 2020 election by requesting recounts.
To say that Bush stole the 2000 election might be a bit of hyperbole, but the NORC study of the Florida ballots concluded that there was good chance that Gore would have won Florida had a full recount been conducted, especially if 180,000 discarded ballots had been treated according to standard assessment practices.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228758008_The_Wrong_Man_Is_President_Overvotes_in_the_2000_Presidential_Election_in_Florida
I supported Trump’s recount requests and it was insane in 2000 when the machines had much higher error rates to not support a recount. And had Democrats been in control of the executive branch in FL then Gore most likely would have won—and Republicans would have complained about a stolen election. Also remember in 2004 a sitting wartime president won the popular vote by 3 million votes while barely winning the Electoral College…I honestly believe had Bush lost the Electoral College in 2004 while still winning by 3 million votes he would have blown up the Electoral College and stolen that election…and I believe that is why Trump actually has an argument that Republicans stabbed him in the back because Bush was an awful president and Republicans never stabbed him in the back…while Trump was actually a good president and Republicans treated him like shit. Bush’s approval started plummeting right after his second inauguration which means Rove essentially did some political trickery which for all intents and purposes amounted to a stolen election—and that is very similar to Biden’s 2020 win.
They did conclude that, but Gore never requested a full recount. So to say that if the state had done something Gore didn't ask the state to do, Gore might've won, says nothing about the election having been "stolen."
Gore was trying to force Harris to undertake a full statewide recount. Do you really believe Gore would have tried to stop a statewide recount undertaken by Harris?? Because if Republicans believe that then they really do believe Gore was attempting to steal the election and so I can understand why they support Trump attempting to steal the 2020 election.
You know, the easiest way for him to have forced her to undertake a full statewide recount would have been to actually have requested one during the challenge period, instead of a recount in just four carefully selected counties, right?
Most people find it hard to believe he was trying to force her to do something he never even asked her to do...
Gore did that—Bush refused to agree to a statewide recount and so Gore’s best course of action was to force Bush’s hand by taking the lead by handpicking counties at which point Harris would have been forced to perform her job and order a statewide recount. Anyway, you appear to believe that Gore attempted to steal the 2000 election and so it makes sense you believe it is fine for Trump to attempt to steal the 2020 election…except Gore simply requested a recount while Bush attempted to stop a recount and so that means Bush successfully stole the election. Anyway, you got your wet dream president and to this day marriage in America is between one man with a pee pee and one woman with a wee wee!
Wow, that's a rather amazing fantasy you've got there. No basis in reality at all, but I can see that you've put some work into it.
During the challenge period a candidate can demand a recount and get it, they don't need permission from their opponent. Surely you knew that.
Gore's strategy in Florida had nothing to do with finding out who really won.
When you do a manual recount, what usually happens is that some percentage of the machine readable ballots are able to be read by the people, and so the number of valid votes increases, but generally the relative percentage doesn't shift.
By picking four large counties where he'd done much better than Bush, Gore could make sure that the majority of that increase in votes accrued to him, not Bush. And, ideally, put himself over the top even if a state-wide recount would have shown he lost.
The obvious response to this tactic was for Bush to request recounts in some of his best counties, too, to negate Gore's gains. To prevent that, Gore waited until the end of the challenge period to demand his selective recount, so Bush wouldn't have time to respond in kind.
Unfortunately for Gore, while he did gain some votes this way, he wasn't gaining enough votes. Finally, Palm Beach tried to move their recount out of the view of election observers, logically so that they could do things that didn't bear observing. The "Brooks Brothers riot" put an end to that attempt, and when the Palm Beach elections officials, (All Democrats.) concluded they couldn't count the ballots in secret, they threw up their hands and stopped counting, knowing they'd never be able to
manufacturefind enough ballots to put Gore over the top if they had to do it with people watching them.The later recounts, which Gore had to get from the State supreme court because the law didn't actually give him any legal right to them, were a last ditch effort at "best two out of three", but were never part of his original strategy.
And even there, the counts were to be conducted in a highly irregular fashion that allowed for manipulating the outcome, which was the EP clause violation the Supreme court agreed on 7-2.
Why are you just making things up?
Bush rejected a full statewide recount…everyone knows that. So Gore had to seek an alternative strategy that would most likely force Bush into supporting a statewide recount.
No. You're just making stuff up. Bush didn't have any say in whether Gore requested a statewide recount.
You guys are insane—recounts aren’t a big deal as can be seen by Democrats’ support of Trump’s recount requests. In 2000 Bush rejected a statewide recount and so Gore had to use a strategy to force Harris to conduct a statewide recount.
Yeah, he's taken the leap from a skewed perspective, to just making things up.
No, it was widely reported that Gore asked Bush to support a statewide recount and Bush rejected the offer. Gore is free to choose the best strategy after his opponent rejects doing to right thing. The notion Gore would have gone to court to stop a statewide recount is absurd but the fact you believe that shows why Republicans support Trump’s attempts to steal this election…because Republicans believe Gore attempted to steal the 2000 election.
Not only did this happen, but this isn't a thing. If Gore wanted a statewide recount, he needed to file a request for one,¹ not ask Bush to support one.
¹Technically, he'd have had to have requested individual recounts in each Florida county; there was no "statewide recount" option. But the point stands: he needed to request these things, not ask Bush to "support" a request for them.
Remember kids...questioning legitimacy of an election is always wrong.
Right?
damikesc, no (I get that you are sarcastic).
It's fine to question the legitimacy of an election, most of the time, for most people. It's fine to question the legitimacy of an election all the time, for all people, until the the moment the election is certified. When that happens, some people—the ones who have sworn an oath to support the Constitution—violate that oath if they continue objecting. The others can keep objecting.
A certified election result is a sovereign decree, from the People who wrote the Constitution, and demanded that oath. So that puts oath-breaking election objectors into an entirely different status—as rivals against the People, contesting for the People's sovereignty. Trump is saying, screw your sovereignty, I'm going to take over, and be sovereign myself.
In short, what Trump and pro-Trump office holders are doing is very much like treason. Reasonable principles of American constitutionalism tell you that Trump and the oath-sworn supporters who keep backing his election denial scam ought to be prosecuted severely. Problem is, no one seems to have passed the right law to do it. The nation will be better off if that gets corrected soon.
So, again, it's OK to question it if you do not like the result. Got it.
Lots of words used to make that point.
Wordy but, bare minimum, total lack of consistency.
No, it isn't. It's an act by government officials, not the public.
It's very much nothing like treason.
Please don't feed the troll.
You mean Brett?
What exactly does his comment have to do with the OP?
Assuming he's right on the facts, never guaranteed without checking, did someone incur hundreds of thousands of legal fees because of this? Or is he just trying pathetic whatabouttery because a couple of asshole lawyers on his side got nailed?
And just WTF is
Whether or not Bush v. Gore was correctly decided, and I think there’s a good argument it wasn’t, not only is there a big difference between persuading a court to rule in your favor (even if erroneously) and storming the Capital shouting “Hang Mike Pence,” our entire Nation was founded, our entire Constitution based, on recognizing the importance of this difference.
It’s true that filing a lawsuit here is also better than storming the Capital, so what the plaintiffs did here is less reprehensible than the people who roamed the Capital looking for Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.
Nonetheless, if you want to file a lawsuit alleging pervasive fraud across the entire system of government, you need evidence.
You also need standing.
The difference is that the conspiracy theories you mention do not have credible support.
January 6 was largely an exercise in White Christian Nationalism motivated in part by anti-abortion zealotry (Biden being pro-choice).
Much of the Republican Party is complicit because they went along with Trump's lie which they KNEW is a lie. Indeed, even after January 6, some numbskull congressman tried to convince people that January 6 was an ordinary tourist day.
The GOPers are lying in order to maintain their elective offices. They need to appeal to the Trump mob to get re-elected.
The Diebold conspiracy theory never got this kind of support and for good reason. Back then - before a pathological liar became POTUS - telling the truth was an important virtue. Today we have BS like "alternate facts" and a free press deemed an "enemy of the people" for telling the truth.
Liz Cheney (of whom I am not a fan) told the truth and look what happened. A sociopath in Palm Beach is calling the shots because people who know better are allowing him his misadentures.
This post, talking about other people's "conspiracy theories"...
Just, wow.
Back then - before a pathological liar became POTUS - telling the truth was an important virtue.
Now pull the other one!!!
Today we have BS like "alternate facts"
I believe Biden's quote was, "We choose truth over facts".
and a free press deemed an "enemy of the people" for telling the truth.
Yeah, if there's one thing that their coverage of the Rittenhouse case (and so many others) has hammered home it's the press's unwavering dedication to the truth.
The biggest pusher of the Diebold conspiracy back in 2004 was… RFK Jr., who's now pushing vaccine conspiracies.
Barbara Boxer in the Senate and several Representatives also objected to the 2004 electoral vote count too.
But I certainly agree with the judge here:
"Counsel should think long and hard, and do significant pre filing research and verification, before ever filing a lawsuit like this again."
I was certainly fraud curious about the 2020 election, but as I said many times, evidence first, lawsuits or laws later. I did support legislative audits.
If you believe Congress has the authority to investigate Jan. 6th, and compel documents and testimony, then you obviously have to believe that state legislatures can investigate state conducted elections and compel production of ducuments, machines, official testimony, etc.
If you believe Congress has the authority to investigate Jan. 6th, and compel documents and testimony, then you obviously have to believe that state legislatures can investigate state conducted elections and compel production of ducuments, machines, official testimony, etc.
How does that follow? Don't state elections have deadlines? Aren't state legislators sworn to support the Constitution, not contest it? Why is a mob attacking the federal government a license for state legislators who swear oaths to the Constitution to attack state and federal election results after they have been certified?
Yeah, you shouldn't rely on disgraced ex-journalist John Solomon for your news.
First, he is confused or disingenuous; "tollbooth records" (which I assume means EZPass) tell you where a car was, not where a person was.
Second, the cover letter — not the subpoena — does not say what Solomon claims it says. It makes two claims: (a) that there was a meeting on January 5 at the Willard at which Rudy/Eastman/Bannon and others plotted the coup attempt; and (b) that Kerik reportedly participated in this meeting.
It footnotes this, and cites two sources in the footnote: Woodward's book, and a Washington Post story. Whether Woodward's book mentions Kerik, I dunno. But The Washington Post story does say Kerik was part of the Willard hotel plotting, though not explicitly a particular meeting on January 5:
(Emphasis added.)
Third, what a cover letter says is 100% irrelevant to anything. It is not a legal document and does not make a subpoena "fraudulent," whatever that word is intended to mean.
So, basically, this is just more Gish Gallop conspiracy theorizing. Just stop.
Evidence of where your car was is generally evidence of where you were.
But yeah, journalists who I dislike and disagree with are "disgraced ex-journalists" in my view, too. Especially when they reveal facts you dislike.
It's not the subpoena, it's the cover letter giving a flimsy sham basis for the subpoena! Ha, got 'em good!
Do you have the documentation used in the subpoena? Care to quote the relevant passages? Along with that why don't you cite all the times Solomon's has been right in the last four years.
"Evidence of where your car was is generally evidence of where you were."
Are you such a fucking moron that it never occurred to you that someone else could be driving the car?
That's why it's "Generally evidence".
Generally, people drive their own cars. Not always. But generally.
And if they say they aren't in town on that day but are somewhere else, and the EZ-Pass records support that the car they generally drive was in that somewhere else place, it's pretty good support.
What's not good support? Issuing a subpoena that says Kerik was at a meeting, and using a book that never mentions Kerik once for support he was at the meeting.
"That's why it's "Generally evidence"."
Okay, you're a fucking moron too I guess.
I see...
Remind me, last time you called me that, I cited and posted he very law that you claimed didn't exist. Then you ran away.
Perhaps your view is to simply insult anyone you disagree with?
No idea what you are talking about there and I also have no idea what you think "generally evidence" is as that is not a legal thing.
The legal term is "Corroborating evidence". I dumbed it down for you, you seemed to need it.
Evidence that supports your allegation that you weren't in town, you left that night, and you returned to New Jersey. Let's examine how this might work.
"Mr Kerik, were you in DC on January 5th?"
"No, I drove home to New Jersey on the night of January 4th"
"Do you have any evidence to support that you drove home that night?"
"Yes, here are the EZ-Pass logs for the car I regularly drive. Here you see me going through a toll in Delaware, then later getting of the highway in New Jersey".
See how that works?
Corroborating evidence confirms already existing evidence. You continue to be a dipshit.
It's literally what the word corroborate means
Yes, but of course neither of those things happened.
And I quote, from the cover letter for the subpoena
""You reportedly participated in a meeting on January 5, 2021, at the Willard Hotel in Washington D.C., in Which Rudolph Guiliani, Stephen Bannon, John Eastman, and others discussed options..."
https://january6th.house.gov/sites/democrats.january6th.house.gov/files/20211108%20Kerik.pdf
Now, if you're going to quibble about the difference between "in a meeting" and "at a meeting"....is that the argument you're trying to make?
No… though of course if Kerik had been on speakerphone while the others were in the room, then that would explain both EZPass records and the reports that he was participating in the meeting. I am going to say that
1) The cover letter is not the subpoena. There need have been no cover letter at all; it's not a legal document. The subpoena did not make any claims about which specific meeting Kerik might have been at or what he might have done (because that's not how subpoenas work). The cover letter could have accused Kerik of having Jimmy Hoffa's body in his basement, and it wouldn't affect the validity of the subpoena.
2) The letter doesn't use a book that never mentions Kerik once for support he was at the meeting. It uses a newspaper article that expressly says Kerik was involved in the planning for support that he was involved in the planning. It uses the book to establish what the 1/5 meeting was.
1) Do you have direct access to the subpoena? Because I haven't seen it. I've seen the cover letter. If you directly link to it, it would support your claim that "The subpoena did not make any claims."
If you don't have direct access to the subpoena, then what are you basing your argument on?
Since the too-clever 20-year associate seems to have tired of this thread, the subpoena is here.
Topic 19 calls for: "All documents and communications related to your January 2021 meetings with individuals associated with President Trump and his re-election campaign, including, but not limited to, meetings held at the Willard Hotel."
As Too-Clever knows, subpoena topics like this are deliberately phrased broadly, so as to cover both specific incidents known to or suspected by the issuer (and deliberately spelled out in the cover letter, just in case Kerik "forgot" about it), and any related incidents not known.
Of course I have access to the subpoena; unlike some here, I actually research comments before I post them. If I hadn't seen it, I wouldn't have made any representations about what it said. (Though I would still have pointed out the difference between a subpoena and a cover letter, because that just requires basic legal knowledge.) It can be found here. You'll note that nothing in the subpoena turns on where Bernard Kerik — or his car — was on January 5.
Oh David...
I enjoy how you mock Solomon's investigative skills...but then directly link to Solomon's website when you need to.
As Life of Brian points out, once again you're too clever by far, especially with regards to topic 19.
You think it takes 'investigative skills' to post a document on the Internet that's been given to you?
David:
""You reportedly participated in a meeting on January 5, 2021, at the Willar Hotel in Washington, D.C., in which Rudolph Giuliani, Stephen Bannon, John Eastman, and others discussed options for overturning the results of the November 2020 election such as, among other things, pressuring Vice President Pence not to certify the electoral college results. 1"
Where the footnote cites page 234 of Woodward's book, which in fact does NOT report that Kerik participated, because Kerik is nowhere mentioned in it.
Granted, this IS the cover letter, not the subpoena. But the basis cited for claiming he participated didn't do so.
I mean this in the nicest possible way, but are you a fucking idiot? The footnote cites both the book, which apparently describes the meeting but doesn't mention Kerik, as well as a Washington Post article, which very much does mention Kerik.
You think it takes 'investigative skills' to post a document on the Internet that's been given to you?
Yes, he does think that. It's one of the worst features of the internet. The internet makes folks feel like they are sleuthing around, digging up real facts on their own, when all they are doing is getting conned by people and algorithms which surveil where they are going, and put crap down on the path in front of them, which they then "discover." When you think you found it yourself, all your habitual skepticism flies out the window.
It's certainly better evidence than:
(a) a book that apparently makes no mention of the guy, provides no support at all for the claim it is cited to support, and is notoriously fake news even if it did,
(b) a Washington Post article making a bare assertion, without evidence, that doesn't precisely support the claim it is cited to support according to Nieporent's explanation above, and
(c) an embarrassing letter from members of Congress citing the foregoing two things as "credible evidence" of the claim.
C is based on B, which they told to a reporter to get backing for C.
It’s an incestuous circle between the media and congress, where they tell the media lies, they cover it unquestionably, then they use media coverage to justify their attacks on their enemies.
You understand that no evidence was needed at all, right? (And certainly none needed to be cited.) It's an investigation, not a prosecution. And it's a subpoena, not a search warrant. All that was required was a good faith basis to believe that Kerik possesses information relevant to their investigation.
And they more than have that, given that he helped financd these meetings and was apparently present at some of them (even if he wasn't present at a specific one on January 5).
But the evidence showing Kerik wasn't there also provides toll booth evidence showing he drove from Washington up to NY, then back late night Jan 5th getting in to DC early morning Jan 6th. I would bet he has other credit card evidence to back that up, like gas recipts.
But that all kind of ignores the other very salient fact that they cited a non-existent passage in Woodward's book for proof he was there in the first place.
No, they didn't.
They literally did. In the cover letter, not the subpoena, but they literally did exactly that.
No, they didn't. Read the actual sentence, and the actual footnote. The actual sentence has more than one assertion in it, and the actual footnote has more than one source in it.
They also cited a Washington Post article...and lord knows their dedication to accuracy has never been brought into question.
Washington Post...National Enquirer...6 of one, half a dozen of the other.
Even if that nihilistic Trumpian argument were correct, it would have no relevance here. Suppose the WaPo asserted a fact that was clearly wrong. So what? It wouldn't affect the validity of the subpoena.
https://thehill.com/homenews/news/483600-the-hills-review-of-john-solomons-columns-on-ukraine
Guess who else ditched Solomon after he left The Hill? Yeah. Fox News.
By all means though, hang the shambles of your credibility on a guy who's been proven to be untrustworthy. You people are a perpetual joke.
If you don't have a family, I guess.
Especially when they are fired from the barely-journalistic outfits where they work for pushing propaganda. Solomon was shown the door from The Hill, which will publish almost anything.
The cover letter is not a legal document and is not necessary in order to provide a "basis" for issuing a subpoena. Nor is the fact that Kerik was reportedly involved in planning the coup "flimsy" or a "sham"; whether he was in one particular location on one particular day does not affect the validity of the subpoena.
The attempted "gotcha" is the "Well, there are two sources footnoted, and one of the two doesn't mention him!" Does the other one? Why, yes, it does. Would you know that from reading Solomon's dreck? No.
"If you don't have a family, I guess."
Depends who is driving the car on a regular basis. If Kerik says he was in DC on January 4th, but drove home that night, and wasn't in DC on the 5th...
And a car Kerik owns, and is known to be his primary vehicle shows EZpass logs of the car leaving DC and going up to NJ.... It tends to support his story pretty well.
Now it's "known to be his primary vehicle"? Based on what?
You appear to be relying on an argument, that despite Kerik's allegation that he was in DC on the 4th, but drove home that night...and despite him providing EZ-pass logs of a car that he owns doing exactly that...
That instead either someone else drove that car (whether it's his normal car or not), without him in it from DC to NJ on the exact dates when Kerik said he had left the city.
It that your argument? That exactly when Kerik said he left, it was really some family member of his that left in a different car (Or Kerik's normal car, driven by someone else?).
Is it "possible"? Sure. Is it likely? No.
Or that he might have participated remotely.
And we all know what an honorable guy Kerik is, who would never lie about his whereabouts.
But hey, credit Brett for a successful threadjack.
You understand that where Bernie Kerik was on January 5 has nothing to do with anything, right? So I am not making any argument at all; I am mocking blogger John Solomon's integrity/investigative skills (and Brett's gullibility) if he thinks "He wasn't at a particular meeting because he showed me records showing that his car was somewhere else" is actually meaningful.
Suppose he and his wife drove down from NY to DC. Then his wife drove back, but he stayed behind in DC to conduct more business. I don't have any evidence that happened, but there's nothing remotely implausible about it.
My main argument was that the subpoena didn't say anything at all about Kerik's whereabouts, and the cover letter that Brett and John Solomon mistakenly thought was relevant doesn't actually say what John Solomon claims it said.
And none of that has anything to do with the subpoena being "fraudulent." It's a completely valid subpoena.
"Suppose he and his wife drove down from NY to DC. Then his wife drove back, but he stayed behind in DC to conduct more business. I don't have any evidence that happened, but there's nothing remotely implausible about it"
Is it possible? Sure.
But Kerik said he drove back, and didn't attend the meeting on the 5th. Is it possible he just happens to have this remarkable piece of evidence that shows that his car did exactly that, on exactly the schedule he said...but in fact it was his wife who did it, and he's just lying? Yeah...it's possible. It's not likely though. It would show remarkable foresight or luck on Kerik's part to remarkably have this piece of evidence match up exactly when he wasn't supposed to be in town.
Additionally, it wouldn't make much sense for Kerik to lie in detail about it like this, especially if it could be disproven. Lies in this degree of detail are harder to sustain and look very guilty if they are disproven. It's one thing to say "I don't think I was in DC that day". That gives you some wiggle room, a "whoops I was wrong". It's something else entirely to provide a series of records that demonstrate you absolutely weren't there, but then be shown that you provided those records in order to perpetrate a deliberate fraud.
I'd guess if needed, there could be more records Kerik could demonstrate. Likely a receipt for a gas station along the way somewhere.
I mean, this is rather puzzling. You seem to think that people are saying that Kerik made up an excuse and it just coincidentally happened to match some documents he had. Yeah, that wouldn't be very plausible. But who on earth thinks that? He had the documents in hand before he put forth his story. If he's lying, he shaped the story to match the documents; he didn't just get lucky. There's nothing "remarkable" about that.
Perhaps he participated in the final pre-showtime planning session by telephone, or by videoconference. Perhaps he missed the final 'storm the Capitol to avenge a stolen election' strategy session. Modern technology suggests these points will not long be matters of speculation or opinion.
Those seem small points. The bigger point is that he is required to describe what occurred -- who, where, when, how, why -- under oath.
I find it amazing that evidence that somebody but Kerik drove it seems unnecessary by some here.
" Evidence of where your car was is generally evidence of where you were. "
One of my vehicles is 300 or so miles away from me at the moment. It should be back Wednesday evening, though.
It's one thing to rile up all the folx posting here, but it's another thing to do magic, Reverend.
I leave the "magic" to the likes of The Amazing Randi, whom I once interviewed and was a remarkable, engaging, effective man.
His car being in New York certainly corroborates his claim to have been in New York on January 5th, but it doesn't prove it, and it's not really very compelling on it's own, in my view.
Moreover, Kerik being in New York on January 5th doesn't work refute the actual basis for his involvement outlined in the letter—including his bankrolling of the hotel rooms, a fact he appears to have admitted to the Washington Post, and which on its own would seem like ample justification to request the production of the documents sought.
That, plus the footnote that Kerik and his press agent Solomon are pointing to provides two citations: to a book and to a newspaper article. They spend all their time talking about what the book doesn't say, and conspicuously don't mention the newspaper article at all.
(My favorite is Solomon breathlessly reporting that he asked Woodward to confirm that the book doesn't contain something that one does not need Woodward to confirm because the book speaks for itself.)
WaPo reports can be dismissed out of hand as the ramblings of a propagandist. They are routinely wrong, provably false, or based on imaginary sources.
Then it should be easy enough for you to disprove the actual assertion.
What - you think YOUR credibility is enough to disprove something on the basis of "I said so?"
LOL.
The subpoena was withdrawn today, with an apology for relying on a false WaPo report.
The subpoena was not withdrawn. Nice try.
When you are deeply mired conspiracy theorizing, it's always important to accuse those who poke holes in your theorizing of conspiracy theorizing themselves.
You're the one with shifting evidentiary standard in an attempt to attack a Congressional subpoena you haven't seen.
IOW, as so often, Brett is just making shit up.
Brett doesn't make things up. He just unthinkingly repeats things that other people make up.
In this case, sure. But he makes up motives and coordination all the time.
An update from Solomon:
"The Democrat-led congressional committee investigating the Jan. 6 Capitol riots handed Republican critics a political cudgel, admitting it made a false accusation against witness Bernard Kerik while subpoenaing him."
So the House democratic committee thinks Solomon is more credible than they are.
Did you read that update? Solomon has no sources for this supposed backpedal other than some GOP Congresspeople and a no comment from Schiff.
See below where I quote the letter the House committee sent to Kerik's lawyer.
Give it up.
Lol, this is like Dershowitz saying he definitely wasn't on the Lolita express because a call was made from his home line during the time period. You're a fucking rube.
If it was from his cell phone, you'd have to provide evidence it was not him, no?
" Kerik was 300 miles away in the New York City area on Jan. 5, 2021, according to his own car's toll booth records reviewed by Just the News. "
Check the mobile phone records and other (witness reports, or credit card records, for example) evidence -- an EZ Pass (or similar) device indicates where the device, or perhaps a particular vehicle, or (even perhapser) a person was.
" Kerik was 300 miles away in the New York City area on Jan. 5, 2021, according to his own car's toll booth records reviewed by Just the News. "
Wait. Is Just the News Solomon?
Has anyone else reviewed those records?
It looks like the House committee has reviewed those records, and wrote to Kerik's attorney:
"“In advance of our deposition of Mr. Kerik, we wanted to correct an error in the letter accompanying the subpoena that you accepted on his behalf,” the committee wrote attorney Tim Parlatore. “That letter indicated that Mr. Kerik participated in a meeting at the Willard Hotel on January 5, 2021, citing a Washington Post article dated October 23, 2021. The Post reports that Mr. Kerik was at the Willard around January 6 and that, according to Mr. Kerik, his firm billed the Trump campaign more than $55,000 for rooms. The article does not say that he was at the Willard Hotel on January 5th, specifically as the Select Committee letter indicates."
Which, as the article you quoted from notes, *does not invalidate the subpoena*.
No, it doesn't, but it does substantiate Solomon's claim that the House got a key fact wrong in issuing the subpoena.
In fact Solomon acknowledged in his original article that Kerik was in DC the 4th, and 6th, and was working as an investigator for Giuliani. He also says that all his work for Giuliani is covered by attorney client privilege.
"Speaking of frivolous"
Don't waste your time on the committee. They are calling Alex Jones and Roger Stone to testify!
The committee is just a clown show. Everyone on it thinks they are Sam Ervin or Howard Baker but they are really just Senator Jack S. Phogbound.
What lawyer -- seeking to investigate rather than obstruct -- would not question Roger Stone (and seek documentary evidence from him) in this context?
Are you perhaps overlooking the Speech and Debate clause?
Nothing that falls into the category "Get Trump" is a problem at all.
We have a bunch of folks in jail, some in solitary, for 11 months at a time for glorified trespassing.
The whole freaking event was video'd but the police want to suppress the video and gold these folks indefinitely to extract plea bargains.
But that follows the pattern that punishes political enemies of this regime is OK.
Very Putin-like
So their punishment is to end up with the default rule that applies in most of the world for non-frivolous cases (loser pays, but not necessarily market rates)?
Looks like "frivolous" might have a few seams starting to give.
https://nypost.com/2021/10/13/mark-zuckerberg-spent-419m-on-nonprofits-ahead-of-2020-election-and-got-out-the-dem-vote/
Heck, that seam gave BEFORE the election.
How 'Zuckerbucks' helped swing the 2020 election for Biden: Facebook CEO funneled $419M into 'nonprofit' local election admin boards 'to help turn out likely Democratic voters'
I thought rich people buying elections was a good thing?
No; the claims that were actually made were frivolous, factually and legally. Not clear why you're bringing up an irrelevant topic that we've known for years.
This type of voter manipulation on this scale is novel for Presidential elections. This type of "selective private financing" of the election apparatus. Especially given the likely racial disparities involved.
What type of voter manipulation? What in that article describes "voter manipulation"?
He financed GOTV drives run by local elections officials, but only in areas where all the votes gotten out would be Democratic. And he did this on an enormous scale.
Normally financing a GOTV drive would be reportable campaign spending, but Zuckerberg circumvented that by the donation to specific elections offices he knew were run by Democrats.
Oh. Wow. That's shocking. Truly!!
And of course that's the first time something like this has ever been done. No Republican donor would do ever do it. Right?
Brett, do you have a citation for this focus on Democratic-heavy locations, or are you making shit up again?
https://thefga.org/blog/zuckerbucks-followed-democrats/
Counties that Biden won received higher grant amounts than counties won by Trump in the 2020 general election. According to CTCL, “grant amounts scaled with jurisdiction size.
Idiot.
Plus, this falls way short of 'only in areas where all the votes gotten out would be Democratic.'
I mean, you've managed to get the facts and the law wrong. Which is par for the course for you.
Setting aside that we both know you don't have any idea what was reported, a public GOTV drive, not coordinated with any candidate or party, is not a reportable expenditure if it does not engage in express advocacy.
And, no, he did not do it "only in areas where all the votes gotten out would be Democratic." In fact, the initiatives he sponsored offered grants to any election officials who applied if they agreed to his conditions on the use of the money. The fact that the GOP lost its collective mind and decided that loyalty to Trump required discouraging voting, and therefore they refused to apply for the grants, does not mean that the grants weren't offered.
Well...note really. More like they hid the existence of the grants from those "Trump counties" until late in the game, while giving the Democrat-heavy counties advance notice.
Those Democrat-heavy counties were given head starts and advance notice of the grant opportunities. Those Republican Counties, in PA weren't even invited to apply for a grant until September 2020, while the Democrat-heavy counties already had submitted applications by August of 2020. So, the Democrat-heavy counties got far more funding, and for a longer period of time.
https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/center-for-tech-and-civic-life/
Nothing in that link supports your claim. It says that "Delaware, Chester and Montgomery Counties each discussed the existence of the grants with officials at the Pennsylvania Department of State in August." That's literally the entirety of this nationwide conspiracy: that someone from a Democratic county heard from a friend about the grant program before Zuckerberg gave lots of money to it: "Delaware County councilwoman Christine Reuther said she first heard of the CTCL grants from “an acquaintance who was part of a non-partisan initiative to boost turnout in the 2020 election." And then there's the contrasting: "An email from Lehigh County to the DOS on Aug. 29, on the other hand, shows that county was only just hearing rumors of the available funds." But Lehigh County is a Democratic County! Whoops!
And in fact, grants were publicly announced earlier, so the claim that nobody except the favored three counties could have known about the possibility of grants until September is just wrong. Here's one announcement, from early August. Here's a report of some grants awarded in July.
And none of this addresses the point that GOP counties by and large refused to apply for the grants.
By the way, the data at that link belies Brett's conspiracy theory that this somehow was a scheme to evade reporting requirements.
That's the Kraken?
Next thing we know you’ll be telling us Zuckerberg gave the evil treasonous Democrats in Congress a CAMPAIGN DONATION! The HORRORS!
With treasonous behavior like that, no choice for patriots but to assault the Capital and make sure every last Democrat paid off by Zuckerberg gets killed, right?
With treasonous behavior like that, no choice for patriots but to assault the Capital and make sure every last Democrat paid off by Zuckerberg gets killed, right?
Because THAT'S what happened, right?!!!!!
Are you even capable of feeling embarrassed by your stupidity?
Poe’s law strikes again.
Nice try, but no cigar. Trying to pawn of yet another of your idiotic takes as an example of Poe's Law should cause you even more embarrassment than the idiot take itself.
Poe's Law says an attempt to murder people (your claim, mind you) usually involves zero weapons.
...while bringing literally zero weapons?
Yeah, makes sense.
It seems like the lawsuit was more of the grifting we have seen widely used in the effort to allege election fraud. These were just another two people looking to take people money for their alleged lawsuit. They are lucky to just be paying sanctions, as they should be charge for running a confidence game.
Yes; if you read the opinion, one of the things that particularly irked this judge was that they fundraised off the case, ostensibly to provide funding for experts and such, and yet admittedly did not consult any experts before filing their non-time-sensitive case.
Maybe there's a Biden administration official who feels like bringing some fraud charges.
Yup, I'd say 90% of the post election litigation and fundraising, at least, was grifting. I just laughed at those fundraisers, the last political donation I made was in early October.
And maybe 50% of the pre-election fundraising on the Republican side, too. An enormous percentage of the funds that purported to be raised for Trump never made it to his campaign, the fundraisers were run by scammers.
Not everybody in the GOP who wanted Trump to lose had the honesty to say so, and the party establishment has nothing but contempt for its own base, they don't particularly mind them being ripped off if the money would otherwise be going to a candidate they'd rather lost anyway. So they didn't police it at all in 2000, I think they might even have quietly encouraged it.
As always, an insane conspiracy theory from Brett.
Nope, he’s 100% correct—GOP orchestrated the coup attempt in 2017 and undermined Trump by somehow getting Trump to appoint losers like Tillerson and Bolton and Kavanaugh….and then after Trump turned out to be a good president the GOPe still didn’t support him nearly to the degree they supported the failed Republican president in 2004!?! Ryan was Speaker in 2017 and McConnell was leader and they allowed Republicans like Comey and Mueller to undermine Trump even though it is their job to provide oversight to executive branch officials.
"An enormous percentage of the funds that purported to be raised for Trump never made it to his campaign, the fundraisers were run by scammers."
Have you still not figured out that the entire "Trump campaign" was a scam to enrich Trump?
I'd say 90% of the post election litigation and fundraising, at least, was grifting
Closer to 100% for Trump's efforts.
Care to provide your full identity? With a claim like that, surely you’re willing to stand by it.
Yeah. It's r456789.
Have to agree with you there.
Rittenhouse slammed his first two attorneys Lin Wood and John Pierce for raising millions in his name and leaving him in jail for 90 days.
Not coincidentally those two were heavily involved in the stolen election grift too.
I only give directly to candidates now, I learned my lesson back when the Tea Party emerged and all the sudden their were 50 "tea party" organizations and most were just raising funds to pay themselves for consulting.
Well, I only give direct to candidates, too. But I was bombarded with ads that were designed to look like if I gave them money it would end up with Trump's campaign, but which never really actually committed to that.
But I've been involved in politics since the late 70's, so I was far to cynical to fall for them.
One of the major problems with the American judicial system is the ability of parties to use the courts as a weapon. This opinion should be engraved in granite and sent to every attorney in the nation so that maybe, just maybe, these lawsuits will cease, or at least be reduced.
Not a chance.
American law has a few salient features-
1. It is focused on process over results; this fetishization means that if you have sufficient resources, for the vast majority of civil case you can make the other side "hurt" enough that it doesn't matter what the underlying merits of the case are. This is a truism that Donald Trump internalized in the 70s and employed ever since.
2. The American rule (each side pays their own fees) is so deeply entrenched that in the few cases where it does not apply (such as certain statutory causes of action) you end up with a veritable mill for plaintiff's attorneys (because it's almost never fully reciprocal).
3. Finally, the myth of the "good-faith extension, modification, or reversal of existing law" (aka, the NAACP defense) is so ingrained that not only do you never even bother pleading it, but it applies to pretty much all frivolous actions as well.
As a non-lawyer, I don't get what you mean by "you end up with a veritable mill for plaintiff's attorneys (because it's almost never fully reciprocal)," or "the myth of the "good-faith extension, modification, or reversal of existing law" (aka, the NAACP defense)"
Could you clarify?
1) The "American Rule" is that each side pays its own lawyers, regardless of who wins. (If there's misconduct, the court can award fees as a sanction against the offending party. Like what happened in the story that sparked this post.) But what Loki is referring to is that some statutes — e.g., civil rights laws, copyright, wage and hour laws — are fee shifting statutes; they provide that a successful plaintiff can get his attorneys' fees paid by the defendant. That's virtually automatic for prevailing plaintiffs. But even though many of those types of laws ostensibly provide that a successful defendant can get his attorneys' fees paid by the plaintiff, the courts generally will not award fees to the defendant unless there's evidence of bad faith conduct by the plaintiff.
2) What is sanctionable misconduct? Bringing a frivolous claim that has no basis in law, because the courts have made it clear that this isn't what the law is. Seems reasonable. But, you have the civil rights problem: it was clearly established that segregation was constitutional. So when Thurgood Marshall and the NAACP attacked segregation through the courts, those suits were 100% foreclosed by precedent. Frivolous and sanctionable, right? Well, nobody wanted to say that. So there's an exception: if you have a good faith argument that the law should be changed, that these precedents should be overruled, then it's not sanctionable. But of course that exception ended up essentially swallowing the rule. Because what lawyer can't argue that he has a good faith belief that the existing precedents are wrong? So you have to veer into cloudcuckooland before you get sanctioned.
Cloudcuckooland was a great album by the Lightning Seeds.
Thank you.
The sanctions award seems appropriate, but one troubling aspect of this opinion is the judge's speculation that the allegations in the pleading "were used by others to foment a violent insurrection that threatened our system of government." He offers no evidence of any causal link here. This is the kind of thing that belongs on an op-ed page (if anywhere), not in a legal opinion.
It is especially unfortunate in light of the tendency in many media outlets to blame mainstream conservative speakers for acts of violence (e.g., Rush Limbaugh was responsible for the McVeigh bombings; Sarah Palin's facebook page led to the Gabby Giffords shooting). This pat tribalism ought to be resisted, especially here, where the sanctions award is well justified regardless.
the judge's speculation that the allegations in the pleading "were used by others to foment a violent insurrection that threatened our system of government."
This alone should be grounds for appeal, and a disbarment of the judge/magistrate who said it. This makes the decision purely political, and not valid by a single shred.
This alone should be grounds for appeal, and a disbarment of the judge/magistrate who said it.
Know how I know you've never practiced law?
Ooh, ooh! Pick me! I can tell you!
Imagine being this poor at reasoning. It must suck.
That's because he wasn't making a causal allegation. He said that the lawsuit repeated allegations that had been used by others to foment the insurrection, not that the lawsuit's allegations caused the insurrection.
Unless one is a loon who thinks that 1/6 was a false flag operation conducted by Antifa, it's indisputable that the events of that day involved people upset about the election supposedly having been stolen. And that's the same thing this lawsuit alleged.
I think that's a fair reading of the opinion. Maybe he's not suggesting causation but merely pointing out (correctly) that both plaintiffs' counsel and the rioters irresponsibly relied on bad information. But in that case why bring up the events of 1/6? If the lawyers aren't responsible for the actions of the rioters, it seems needlessly inflammatory to lump them in together.
The lawyers engaged in severe misconduct (at a level that might imperil a law license). That misconduct promoted practical problems. It was this judge's responsibility to determine what occurred, whether it was improper, and whether it should precipitate consequences for the offending lawyer(s). If the allegations submitted to a court by these lawyers were part of a lathering underlying violence at the Capitol, a responsible judge would not ignore that point.
"why bring up the events of 1/6?"
Because the judge was spewing leftist political nonsense. Note the laughable use of the word "insurrection," an egregious tell.
Quit whining, clinger.
Which does not matter.
Have you ever been before a judge in your life?
There was no insurrection, so it’s clear he’s making shit up.
One expects that from an activist, not a judge.
"There was no insurrection"
That's a seditious lie, and you are a traitor. It's odd how people like you purport to be patriots while engaging in treason.
Obviously what is needed going forward is some SB8-style fee-shifting provision in order to insulate Kraken attorneys in 2024.
Red states have passed or are working on legislation to give control of election counting and outcomes to the legislature.
They won't be able to do this everywhere in time for 2024, so some sort of immunity for Kraken attorneys will also need to be passed, or else who will represent a losing candidate in 2024 that makes claims of widespread global international massive systematic fraud?
Full force of the law comes down hard on one side, the other side largely gets away with years of phony "dossiers" and FBI lying and "Resistance" scheming and mass rioting.
Every FBI director has been a Republican, as even a bigoted, backwater, deed-proofreading clinger should be able to determine.
According to Google, J. Edgar Hoover was registered as an independent.
Isn't that just Google trying to square his penchant for cross-dressing with his disdain for "communism"?
HAH!
One source:
"Hoover never joined a political party and claimed he was "not political". In fact, he admitted privately, he was a staunch, lifelong supporter of the Republican party. He secretly aspired to be president and considered running against Franklin D Roosevelt, whom he thought suspiciously left-wing. Hoover publicly expressed support for Senator Joe McCarthy shortly before McCarthy claimed Truman's State Department was harbouring 200 members of the Communist party. His agents slipped file material to the senator for use in his infamous inquisition, while publicly denying doing so."
What would the likelihood be that a degenerate lowlife such as J. Edgar Hoover would not be a lifelong Republican?
Damn! 160 billion dollars in damages for 160 million voters. Take out the lawyers' share, we could each have received maybe 70 bucks!
Is this the relevant Gary D. Fielder, crack member of Trump Election Litigation: Elite Strike Force?
Is <a href="this the relevant Ernest Walker, fellow crack member of Trump Election Litigation: Elite Strike Force and "Special Assistant to the General Council of the US Army"? That's quite the impressive title -- special assistant to the general council! I wonder how many members that council included!
Carry on, clingers.
The Walker link.
File under - who cares. We live in Clown World. The left generates misinformation and outright lies on a daily basis.
Ha punishing those that dispute the regime is exactly what Putin does with his adversaries. Good work comrades! Maybe you can throw in something to put them behind bars next time!
Literally none of this happened. There have been 4 or 5 isolated instances of fraud identified in 2020, and each one of those was a Republican Trump supporter.
You keep bringing this up, and each time whatever anecdote you cite to has been found laughable upon examination.
I see you've stopped trying to put forth particular anecdotes, settling for bitter handwaiving instead.
Just stop, Dave. There were a LOT more instances than that, and most of THEM reflected Dem districts. You've gong beyond dishonest and landed in deranged territory now.
Really David?
https://www.wcbi.com/notary-arrested-charged-voter-fraud-connection-aberdeen-alderman-election/
"You've gong beyond dishonest and landed in deranged territory now."
I don't think those words mean the things you think those words mean
Yes, and there is apparently a conspiracy throughout the entire federal court system to not recognize all the evidence of these "a LOT more instances."
Most of the reported fraud cases involved Republican voters, as I recall -- in Colorado, in Nevada, in Pennsylvania (citation limit prevents a link), etc.
The affidavits and other "evidence" submitted by Trump-friendly lawyers claiming fraud (or even sketchy conduct) during the election fraud litigation wave were discredited, dismissed, mocked, and scorned by the reality-based world.
Other than that, though -- great comment!
Delusional, disaffected, downscale right-wingers continue to be among my favorite culture war casualties.
Why don't you stop, Callahan. You and all your fellow madmen.
Ha ha that's your proof of widespread fraud? in an alderman case in Aberdeen, Mississippi, 66 absentee ballots were improperly notarized, and for 83 regular ballots, an election worker forgot to put her initials on it?
We've gone from "4 or 5" incidents of isolated fraud, to more than 100 total issues, and an election overturned, in a heavily Democratic district....
And that's just one example. Many times the criminal convictions take years to come out.
What's sad is that you are serious and that your stupidity is clearly terminal. Be well.
That's not fraud, dinkus.
You insist losing an election broke liberals' brains, and yet here you are, broke as can be.
Case and point, AL above.
Y'all really can't take that sometimes you lose elections.
Y'all really can't take that sometimes you lose elections.
Remind us who it is that still claims "Bush stole the 2000 election" 21 years later.
"That's not fraud, dinkus,"
Literallly from the link.
"In the sixty-four-page order, Judge Jeff Weill not only calls for a new election but also finds evidence of fraud and criminal activity"
Sarcastro lies again.
Oh look, a red herring!
Nobody of significance is bitching about the 2000 election.
Ah. You don't know how a fiduciary duty works.
That isn't election fraud.
More importantly, do you think that's how the 2020 election was stolen, or are you blowing smoke?
Again, you believe false stuff because you'd rather ignore reality than allow that you lost an election.
While I agree that Cremmington is of no significance, he was bitching about the 2000 election in this very comment section...which of course was undeserving of Sarcastro's blathering about not being able to take losing an election...which was the point, you mouth-breathing, window-licking dipshit.
But Cremmington is not only not significant, but not a Democrat. He’s just someone with a psychosexual obsession with George Bush.