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A (Belated) Final Word on Principles and Texas SB 8
A delayed, but hopefully still helpful final rejoinder to Stephen Sachs.
Last week, co-blogger Stephen Sachs posted a thoughtful response to my most recent critique of his position on the Texas SB 8 litigation. For earlier phases in this debate see my post arguing that a Supreme Court ruling in favor of Texas' SB 8 anti-abortion law creates greater slippery-slope risks than a ruling against it, and Steve's earlier post on the same topic, to which I was responding. In this post, I will make a brief final rejoinder. Steve is, of course, welcome to respond further, if he wishes to do so. I am sorry I took so long to respond, which occurred because I had other pressing commitments.
Throughout my commentary on SB 8, I have emphasized the danger that, if Texas' ploy works, it will create a blueprint for other states to undermine a variety of constitutional rights, including gun rights, property rights, free speech rights, and many others. For me and others with similar concerns, the SB 8 case is not primarily about abortion rights or the future of Roe v. Wade. The Supreme Court will soon enough have the opportunity to weigh in on those issues in Dobbs v. Jackson Women's Health Organization, a case where the state government did not attempt to evade judicial review. Rather, the main stake in the SB 8 case is whether Texas and other states - both red and blue - will be able to gut judicial review for a wide range of constitutional rights. In my previous posts, I outlined reasons why protecting judicial review should take priority over other considerations that might be at issue in the SB 8 litigation, and how this can be accomplished while minimizing disruption of existing precedent on sovereign immunity and limitations on federal court injunctions against state court judges (though I myself would be happy to see those precedents simply overruled).
In his latest post Steve, makes two additional points, which I will address in turn. First, this one:
I want to be clear that I'm not accusing Ilya of being unprincipled! In his view, the "silly and artificial" distinctions barring such suits aren't really part of the law, and a more general rights-protective principle is. I see this position as perfectly coherent, albeit mistaken. My argument is addressed to those who don't see such distinctions as silly and artificial, who don't see a general rights-protective principle as trumping ordinary procedural doctrines, etc. If one accepts that fed-courts doctrines routinely (and often for good reason) get in the way of plaintiffs who want to make constitutional arguments, and if one accepts that governments routinely structure their conduct with this in mind, then one shouldn't endorse a good-for-this-train-only exception here.
I appreciate Steve's comment on my commitment to principles! But my argument is not solely addressed to those whose views on these doctrines are the same as mine. It is also addressed to people who value existing precedent on sovereign immunity and federal injunctions against state courts, but also value the preservation of judicial review of state government policies targeting constitutional rights. In my previous contributions to our exchange, I explain why the latter commitment should take precedence over the former when the two conflict, and also why this need not lead to the complete reversal of previous precedent (though it would likely impose some limitations on it).
When two principles conflict, choosing the more important over the less important isn't unprincipled. Much the contrary. And it isn't "a good-for-this-train-only exception." The same prioritization applies in every other instance where similar conflicts between principles arise. Prioritizing greater principles over lesser ones is itself a a principled commitment; maybe even a meta-principle.
Steve's second point is the following:
We should distinguish between the source of a legal right and the source of the legal means for its enforcement. For example, we all have a legal right not to be kidnapped. If we bring an ordinary tort suit against our kidnappers, or if we raise this right as a defense in any custody suit the kidnappers bring, we ought to win. That's judicial review for you. But judicial review is a hopelessly ineffective means of enforcing this right; that's why we need legislatures to create police forces to track down kidnappers and arrest them. Likewise, the Fourteenth Amendment distinguishes our constitutional rights from the "appropriate legislation" we might need to "enforce" them, such as the cause of action in 42 U.S.C. § 1983 or the criminal prohibition in 18 U.S.C. § 242—which the courts couldn't have made up on their own, despite the extraordinary chilling effects the freedmen faced…
I agree courts can't always effectively enforce every legal right. As Steve's examples show, they must often rely on the aid of other branches of government to enforce rights against private parties. But the main purpose of judicial review is to protect constitutional rights against the depredations of government. And, here, judicial review is an extremely effective tool, particularly in cases where effective enforcement simply requires striking down a law or regulation and barring state officials from enforcing those policies. In the case of SB 8, that means preventing state courts from hearing SB 8 cases that violate the Constitution and enforcing judgments that plaintiffs might win in such cases. States must not be allowed to forestall effective judicial review in such cases by exploiting loopholes in procedural doctrines. If the only way to prevent that is to close those loopholes by limiting the scope of some procedural precedents, then that is a small price to pay for vindicating much more important constitutional principles.
I close for now. But I expect we will return to these matters once the Supreme Court issues a decision in the SB 8 cases, which could be soon.
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"the SB 8 case is not primarily about abortion rights or the future of Roe v. Wade."
Sure it is. The case can be disposed of by saying "there is no constitutional right to abortion, therefore this law does not burden a constitutional right. We reserve judgment as to a similar law which *did* burden a constitutional right, like free speech or the right to bear arms. Next case!"
That is not within the scope of the questions presented, which were rewritten by the Court when it granted certiorari before judgment.
I didn't say the Court *would* do its duty, simply that it *could.*
Where is the jurisdiction, pursuant to the grants of certiorari in United States v. Texas and Whole Woman´s Health v. Jackson, to reconsider Roe and Casey? Texas asked for that in its response, but SCOTUS rejected that.
Like I say, if they shirk their duty by limiting the question presented, that represents their own choice - they could have acted more broadly.
A truly just Court would have addressed the question: Zygotes, Amazing or Super Amazing?
Cal, I know you are anti all that trans pronoun stuff. And that you are a Champion Supreme of the Rights of our Zygote Brothers/Sisters.
But, given the Totally Protected by the 14th Amendment and Article 12 Zygotes, how should we refer to them given the don't external sexual organs until after 7 weeks past conception? I don't want to fall into the SJW trap of using some gender neutral pronoun (this likely would violate the Actual Meaning of the 14th Amendment and Article 12, amirite?), so can you give me some guidance?
Also, since we can't tell if 'they' (sorry for the SJW lapse!) are women or men I can't tell if they should be able to keep and bear a ladies derringer or a man's Glock (as their 2nd Amendment rights ensure!).
Did that look clever in your head before you wrote it down and it looked so stupid?
Hint: Sex is determined by chromosomes, not by their expression in sexual organs.
Sure it is! It *could* pronounce embryos had the right to bear arms.
Or (less plausibly) you could say something sensible.
Someone who believes (or at least claims to believe) fairy tales are true giving pointers on what is "sensible" is always a treat.
It's always a treat when Asshole's insults don'r include a link to an irrelevant YouTube video or his telling us about the future.
Or (less plausibly) you could say something sensible.
At least I seem to be able to work the comment button, lol!
I get you're all revved up about teh babies though.
What's with repeating comments for the benefit of slower readers?
Trying to help those folks that can't do things like operate the comment button 😉
It's a reasonable accommodation.
I mean, you get that, right? I imagine you're all in on accommodating zygotes in exercising their God given rights, amirite?
But, SB8 doesn't prevent judicial review. It's absolutely clear that SB8 cases will be subject to judicial review, both state and federal. Indeed, it's quite possible SB8 would be struck down or severely modified even just based on Texas constitutional law, never mind federal.
It's only designed to prevent pre-enforcement injunctions. But pre-enforcement injunctions are hardly the entirety of judicial review.
I thought much the same. Doesn't judicial review happen when there is a lawsuit? I mean, it is a lawsuit...a judge is gonna hear it. You got your judicial review. What Professor Somin seems to want is judicial preclearence, at the beck and call of the federal government.
I really don't think it is a good idea to hand the federal government the means to stop whatever state law they please, whenever they please, for whatever reason they please. Seems....like a really, really bad idea. I mean, what could possibly go wrong? 🙂
It is not clear to me that the parade of horribles Professor Somin seems to be worried about occurs with other rights. SB-8 has a very specific statutory construction; meaning, specifically constructed with existing SCoTUS precedent in mind for one specific penumbral right, and designed to drag out the process. Doing that for other rights (enumerated or not) will not be so easy. Entirely different case law applies.
What's the real harm here in expediting the initial judicial review (the lawsuit that must be brought), and then address it?
I'd say more bluntly that the distinction is between chilling a constitutional right (eg, speech) and chilling activity which is *not* a constitutional right (eg, abortion).
You guys want to make that move, but the problem for you is, abortion is, right now, a constitutional right. And the courts have the power to treat it as one.
This is an evil law passed by Machiavellis trying to get around Marbury and Ex Parte Young. It needs to be decisively rejected.
"abortion is, right now, a constitutional right. And the courts have the power to treat it as one"
They do? Did they have the power to establish separate but equal as a legal principle?
You are just being silly. Unless and until Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey are overruled, the right to choose abortion prior to fetal viability is a constitutional right. Like it or not.
So, you *don't* want to answer my question?
The Supreme Court has indeed established separate but equal as constitutional, and has subsquently abandoned that reasoning in later litigation. The earlier ruling remained enforceable in the meantime.
But I suspect you know that and are being merely argumentative.
The courts no more have the power to treat abortion as a constitutional right than they do to treat separate as equal.
How many legs does a dog have if you call a tail a leg?
Lol, Cal's gonna get flattened by Chesterton's rhino...
Once you start down the legal positivist path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.
Is Chesterton now a legal realist?
Well, I guess if the comment button was too difficult in your current state that's *really* an unfair question...
There are centuries of binding precedent going against your wishful thinking contention, Cal.
OK, fair enough.
The courts have no more *authority* to declare abortion a constitutional right than they do to declare that separate is equal.
Thank you for the opportunity for making this necessary correction.
https://www.quotes.net/quote/41232
Too many precedents to cite?
Cal's is in Zygote Passion mode, you're not going to get through...
You compared the courts to a rhinoceros going into a restaurant - who, according to the quote *you* cited, has no authority.
If that's what you're going with, then in Arthur's phrase, I am content.
Jeebus, you don't know your Chesteron?
What kind of Embryo Crusader are you?
The ¨power¨ and the ¨authority¨ to recognize fundamental constitutional rights is a distinction without a difference.
"The ¨power¨ and the ¨authority¨ to recognize fundamental constitutional rights is a distinction without a difference."
Queenie brought it up. And scored an own goal because his metaphor involves a lack of authority.
Maybe the two of you can sort things out between each other.
In case anyone didn't click on the link, Queenie cited the following remark attributed to G. K. Chesterton:
"If a rhinoceros were to enter this restaraunt now, there is no denying he would have great power here. But I would be the first to rise and assure him that he had no authority whatever."
I already acknowledged that I should have said "authority" instead of "power."
And you used a metaphor involving a lack of authority.
I am content.
"I should have said "authority" instead of "power."
And the comment button problem, look, this guy is SUPER PASSIONATE about embryos. You get it, right? I hope so. When those blueberry sized totally equal citizens are denied not only their right to Medicaid, jury selection, and, heck, life, who wouldn't get passionate and a bit reckless?
SOMEONE has to be a voice for the voiceless (I don't mean to otherize our totally equal blueberry sized citizens because they don't have a throat...or central nervous system or..., well, you get it!). That brave man, nay, that Knight of Justice, is Cal freaking Cetin! So stand back with your 'questions presented' or 'precedents,' Justice is Coming!
"¨power¨ and the ¨authority¨ to recognize fundamental constitutional rights is a distinction without a difference"
Courts have the "power" but lack the moral authority to create an abortion right is what he is saying.
Taney had the "power" to rule against Dred Scott and a later court had the "power" to rule against Homer Plessy but both were morally wrong so lacked any real authority.
" Once you start down the legal positivist path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will. "
And once you hitch your political wagon to the doomed side of the American culture war, your destiny is predictable.
Do you regret that anti-abortion absolutists chose the racist, gay-bashing, misogynistic, xenophobic, old-timey, backwater side of the culture war, thereby arranging -- like the gun nuts, the wall-builders, the "traditional marriage" advocates, and others -- their eventual demise in modern America?
What I regret, Asshole, is that you weren't aborted so that you wouldn't pollute these threads with your pointless repetitive basweless insults.
And Queenie got owned, citing Chesterton expressing a point that was the opposite of her contention.
And, no, SCOTUS doesn't get to invent actual Constittional rights merely because there is no legal mechanism to correct it inventing bogosities at will. The Chesterton quoute is right on point.
But since SB8 prohibits any sanction of Casey-compliant abortions so long as the defendant asserts that as a defense there is no need to invent novel sanctions against TX courts for hearing such cases.
Would it really be too much to ask that we not wish each other dead?
I mean, sooner or later we'll all presumably meet the common fate of mortals...then we'll probably wish we'd spent *less* time on the Internet, not more.
"The courts no more have the power to treat abortion as a constitutional right than they do to treat separate as equal."
Cal's words. He got Chesterton exactly backwards (or he got the Court): the Court certainly has the power to declare both things. He wants to question their authority because he knows the Realz Constitution has the secret Zygotes R Awesome Clause.
Also, let it sink in that Cal thinks black persons are the equivalent of zygotes.
Some zygotes *are* black persons.
Why are you in favor of killing unborn black people?
"Also, let it sink in that Cal thinks black persons are the equivalent of zygotes."
Yeah, and what's wrong with that? You're not familiar with the commutative principle? If X=Y, then Y=X.
So, yeah, he's saying 'zygotes' have all the rights of black persons. You're the one adding, "Which is to say, none."
The mad love of embryos brings out the silly in him...
Not seeing his "silliness". Am seeing your repetitive stupidity.
"evil law"
Your definition of "evil" needs adjustment.
It is designed to stop evil.
I don't think telling women what to do with their bodies in the name of microscopic things without real brains is designed to 'stop evil,' but YMMV.
"things"
Human beings.
You must have a very low opinion of the persons around you if you think a microscopic blip with no CNS is their equal...
Matter of fact, that might explain your usual bloodthirst about human life...
What is the "microscopic blip with no CNS" then if not an unborn human being?
Possum, skunk, fish, snake, eagle?
Bob's the kind of guy who if you tell him to 'go climb a tree' he will go hover on top of an acorn.
Then he'll shoot the tree.
For something.
You didn't answer the question.
You not getting that I did is not the same.
So Dilan, we agree = It needs to be decisively rejected.
Call the bluff. Meaning, adjudicate a lawsuit under SB-8 and then challenge it. That guarantees what you're after, which I assume is judicial review of some sort, right?
DON'T DARE MENTION THOSE 17 STATE-COURT CASES IN TEXAS
It's probably fair to say that the 3 would-be SB8 test cases in Texas are unofficially on hold because everybody is waiting for SCOTUS, since they opted into the fray all disretionarily and super-promptly. (No judicial review ... Huh?).
Meanwhile, Mr. Gomez is trying to get himself extracted from Alan Braid's forum-shopped Interpleader in Illinois even though he is the only one who lives there and is the excuse for the elopement to that jurisdiction. Also, get this: five of the I-did-it MD's attorneys sit in Houston and had to petition for pro-hac-vice admission in N.D. Ill. because -- you know -- they usually litigate in Texas where are three cases against their client were actually filed. But why do things the normal and ordinary way when money is no object and you can hire a dozen lawyers and deploy them wherever suits the abortion industry's venue preference? ... All the while whining about facing crushing liability from a trio of schmucks, none of whom can even claim fees because they are all proceeding pro se. Has it occurred to anyone that Texas lawyers don't file SB8 cases because they are deemed unwinnable?
Then there are those 14 pending pre-enforcement cases in Travis County, Austin, Texas, that are already at the summary-judgment stage. Multiple anti-suit TROs previoiusly issued in those injunction suits against Texas Right to Life and at least one temporary injunction of longer duration - by at least three different state judges ..... Hmmmm.
The omerta among the legal literati is just stunning, but the reason is obvious: We are just not going to acknowledge that those cases are in the state-court pipeline because we have all agreed that SB8 is immune to judicial challenge and therefore is evil, requiring new doctrine ex-machina.
And if you are fighting evil, anything goes. Apparenlty.
How does it get around Marbury and Young?
By complying with them. Just like iot gets around Casey by complying with it. Up is down.
The claim is that it is unconstitutional, hardly "whatever reason they please".
Yes of course, that is the claim: This is unconstitutional.
However, the line between 'this is clearly unconstitutional' and 'whatever reason they please' seems to be a bit blurred these days. Actually, that line looks a lot more like a Rorschach inkblot than an actual line. 🙂
An obviously baseless claim is pretty much exactly "whatever reason they please".
There are two very clear ways to have judicial review for SB8-like laws or for there to be a way to protect people
1) Have an actual lawsuit, where one of the parties sues the other, in court, and have the court rule on it. The court can then strike down the law. This has happened repeatedly in regards to gun violence and gun manufacturers (or gun sellers or an online board that helps private parties sell guns). There's a lawsuit, and the party is sued. This just happened in regards to Armslist
2) Have Congress pass a law that protects commerce against such laws.
Too much has been made about how "bad" the law is.
That's dishonest. You know that the GOP can filibuster any such law, and the point of SB8 is to chill clinics in the meantime.
There needs to be a remedy NOW. And that requires a SCOTUS ruling.
"remedy NOW"
So eager to kill.
I don't see protecting women's autonomy to be killing, YMMV.
(Note, Bob Loves him some killing in other situations where the victims actually have a CNS but might be thought to be committing a misdemeanor or something or are enemies of our 'national interests etc.,).
Dilan, why should it require SCOTUS? SB 8 is predicated on enforcement by means which already violate federal criminal law—the law against violating civil rights under color of law. The Justice Department could un-chill the clinics simply by announcing it will prosecute as a felony any attempt to enforce SB 8.
SB8 enjoys a presumption of validity until it is ruled invalid. It would be hard for DOJ to prove willfulness.
The in terrorem effect under the goose/gander principle would be sweet, though.
Has anyone been prosecuted for filing a lawsuit?
Since the clinics are "chilled" only by fear that SCOTUS will overrule Casey that won't work right out of the box.
And since SB8 has Casey-compliant unquestionably Constitutional application as soon as an abortion of a viable fetus is known to have occurred, the idea as you state it is anyway nonsensical.
1) It's not dishonest in the least. We've passed laws before for such issues. IE, the protection of lawful commerce in arms act. That had a proviso attached that mandated safety lock on handguns.
Propose a law...the Lawful commerce in abortion act. Drop on an amendment...banning abortion after 28 weeks in all cases except grave risk of health to the mother or child. And pass it.
2) As for the law, you're absolutely convinced it's unconstitutional. So clinics should feel free to violate it. If it comes up in court, it'll be thrown out. And you get your case.
"You know that the GOP can filibuster any such law"
So. What.
Look, suppose you need money from the bank. Which is the proper way to get it? Making a legal withdrawal, or robbing the bank?
Making a legal withdrawal, of course.
Now, suppose your account at the bank is empty, and they'd refuse you the withdrawal. Does that make bank robbery the right answer?
No.
Look, all you're really saying is, "We have to win, and we don't have the votes to win the right way, so we have to use the wrong way." But, no, you don't have to win, you just WANT to win.
SB8 does not permit meaningful judicial review in state court. A ruling at or before trial in favor of a defendant -- even a ruling that the statutory scheme is unconstitutional -- has no claim preclusive or issue preclusive effect, and the same defendant is subject to suit by a different plaintiff time and again and again. Suppose the first unsuccessful plaintiff and subsequent unsuccessful plaintiffs decline to seek appellate review from a judgment of dismissal. The defendant remains subject to vexatious and costly litigation in the trial court (or in different trial courts across the state) no matter how frequently he defeats the plaintiffs´ claims.
Doesn't that remain true without SB 8?
Without SB8, state officials who enforce anti-abortion statutes are suable in federal or state trial courts pursuant to 42 U.S.C. 1983, and appellate review which creates binding precedent is available as of right.
I thought that a couple of posts ago your concern was that the law would be held unconstitutional and the plaintiff wouldn't appeal.
Either way, I'm not quite tracking your theory that a statute that's been held unconstitutional can still be asserted by future plaintiffs because the statute that's been held unconstitutional says that non-mutual issue/claim preclusion isn't available.
That is what SB8 purports to provide, and there is no disincentive to the repeated filing of frivolous suits by serial plaintiffs, even in the absence of any injury in fact. An award of fees and costs in favor of a successful defendant is expressly prohibited.
But in your hypotheticals, SB8 has been held unconstitutional. So at that point it doesn't matter what it purports to provide.
A trial court ruling is not precedential as to other trial courts.
Texas has 294 counties. Serial plaintiffs can forum shop multiple trial courts.
Ah, here come the lilypads. Setting aside the fact that venue rules generally would preclude tactics like that, if you have to twist yourself up into a pretzel knot to try to create a plausible parade of horribles, maybe they're not so horrible after all.
SB8 overrides general rules regarding venue. An abortion provider becomes, in the words of counsel for the Whole Woman´s Health plaintiffs during oral argument before SCOTUS, a permanent defendant.
Now you're clearly just making shit up. Cite the portion of the statute you think says that, or just give it up. (Hint: I've read it myself.)
Serial lawsuits can be brought by plaintiffs residing in multiple counties.
And so? They'd lose every time.
Hypothetically speaking, the one time the defendants actually manage to lose, they can immediately appeal. Then a state superior court can put down a ruling that makes the law unconstitutional and/or the decisions unenforcable.
Do you propose a defendant´s tanking a suit in the trial court just to get to an appellate court? I haven´t researched the question, but I seriously doubt any Texas appellate court would entertain issues not properly preserved at trial. Appellate courts love to find waiver.
"Do you propose"...
No. I didn't propose anything of the sort.
Again, in an actual order is this.
1. The defendants win every time. OR
2. If they lose, they can immediately appeal, and then get a statewide decision.
Who is forcing the abotionists to waive anything?
Or to spend any money defenduing suits so simple that they can safely be defended pro se?
The clinics can just defy it. Its not a criminal statute so only their blood money is at risk.
If the law is clearly unconstitutional, then the risk is non existent. No clinic can ever lose.
Lol, any regular here knows Bob doesn't have principles, he has goals.
If this were about a blue state enacting a law where people engaging in a right Bob cares about could be sued by private attorneys general he'd be hyperventilating here.
I get some people are in love with embryos and want them to bear arms and vote and be elected President and all and so women engaging in what nature does regularly must be prohibited by a massive and intrusive police state (that's the only way it would work really), but for those other than Bob, maybe at least show a shred of principle about this. You want to get rid of Roe (actually you of course want to outlaw abortion), then have your state pass a law *doing that.* And if it's not a recognized constitutional right (and it might not be under this court) you get your way. But this is a really stupid and unprincipled way to get your way on this very limited issue.
Blue states did that plenty. They didn't like firearms, so they sought to sue firearms manufacturers for crimes that people who used their product committed.
Eventually, it all worked out.
Being sued repeatedly for conduct that is plainly constitutionally protected is a non-trivial harm.
Getting aborted is a non trivial harm.
To no person.
This person apparently really thinks that she's an absolute monarch and her word is dispositive.
Funny, in all the cartoons such people dress as Napoleon.
"A ruling at or before trial in favor of a defendant -- even a ruling that the statutory scheme is unconstitutional -- has no claim preclusive or issue preclusive effect"
And you could litigate that very issue all the way up to the state supreme court, which might itself declare that clause unconstitutional.
Where a defendant has obtained a dismissal at or before trial, how would he have standing to appeal?
Again, you're so focused on trying to come up with a scary-sounding story, you're losing track of your own hypotheticals.
If the defendant is being sued again after SB8 was held unconstitutional in a prior case (unlikely for the reasons I laid out in the above thread), BUT the court says that doesn't matter because SB8 itself says issue preclusion doesn't apply (and thus is magically constitutional again for the new plaintiff), THEN Defendant certainly isn't "obtain[ing] a dismissal" in the new case and thus can appeal that point as Brett said.
First rules of holes.
You misconstrue what obtaining a dismissal means. The provider who prevails at trial or pretrial on summary judgment has obtained all the relief that a trial court is empowered to give, and the order is not appealable by the prevailing party.
If a defendant gets stuck in a second case due to the current trial court ruling the statute not unconstitutional regardless of what prior trial court(s) said, the court isn't going to turn around and let the defendant out on summary judgment. Defendant will lose and then will appeal the constitutionality issue (if it wasn't able to already file an interlocutory appeal after that earlier ruling -- not clear on that off the top of my head).
That´s not what I am talking about. I was positing that a defendant can succeed in one court, via trial or summary judgment, and still be subject to multiple lawsuits, in that the first judgment carries no preclusive effect. If Texas courts adhere to binding SCOTUS precedent, it is conceivable that an abortion provider can win a plethora of judgments in his favor, yet still remain subject to the next suit by the next damages seeking plaintiff.
SB8 does not need to say that issue preclusion doesn't apply. It is black letter law that a non-party to a case, who is not in privity to a party in that case, is not bound by a decision in that case.
See my comment about the 17 state-court cases above.
Let me add this: The effect of the Pitman injunction in U.S. v. Texas was to put the pending SB8 cases in Bexar and Smith County under federal stay, and prevent additional ones for being filed (if anyone would have). And for Texas clerks it's now a dilemma because they could be sued for denying litigants their right to access the courts if they reject filings, or run afoul of the federal injunction if it is formally upheld or the Fifth Cir. stay lifted.
Also, eminent law professors have been beating the drums to round up SB8 plaintiffs and bankrupt them (through a new state-actor theory of private litigant liability under Sectin 1983). Even if it's a colleague who were to bring a test case that they are hungering for, so that SB8 can be challenged from a defensive posture as they themselves advocate. There are at least 3 academic pieces now out there (see SSRN or Google Scholar) proposing to make private litigants agents of the State of Texas, i.e. fall guys for the Republican majorities that enacted SB8 and who are themselves immune.
Go figure.
If you knowingly volunteer you're not a fall guy, you're a volunteer.
Somehow the necessity of defending baseless Section 1983 cases doesm't worry the fols who imagine up endless cases successfully defending a particular abortion (which I'm confident TX courts will not allow to clog their dockets).
PAXTON IN EFFIGY
You have a chance to become the fall guy if the court decrees - by fiat and over your strenuous objection -- that you are now the Alter Ego of Ken Paxton and will be charged under the Anti-Kluxer Act, if not for treason.
If that theory of political and legal liability is legit, why don't they go after the principal, rather than the supposed agent that's not even on the State's payroll? At least General Paxton has an army of lawyers to march into battle for some spectacular fireworks and pizzaz.
Before the guillotine gets dusted off or the firing squad assembled, here is voilà:
THE FINAL SOLUTION TO THE SENATE BILL 8 PROBLEM
Fortunately, for the pragmatically inclined, there is an easy "doctrina ex-machina" here that no one has yet thought of apparently (except Moi) and it is this:
"Based on the exclusivity of the enforcement mechanism of SB8 we deem private SB8 plaintiffs to be official actors of and on behalf of the State, and since official actors may not enforce SB8 per its terms, SB8 Plaintiff, ANON CALLTHEIRBLUFF, possesses no standing to maintain his civil action against Doktor Engelsmacher, M.D., or his clinic, HOMUNCULUS DISPATCH 24-7, LLC.
That's it. Precedent established that no one of x billion Planet Earthers enabled to claim person status to enforce SB8 can actually succeed in the only way it could be done: by civil lawsuit.
This devil-ex-machina holding can then be invoked as a basis for dismissal or summary judgment by the defendant in any and all SB8 suits going forward in any state or federal court. It will leave the Texas law on the books (to the joy of the no-writ-erasure contingent) but can't be enforced by anyone while continuing to make a moral statement nonetheless. Nor would this technically take anyone's right to sue away. They just won't be able to win. And state judges will do all the dismissing that might be necessary.
Since this doesn't work so well for the pro-life part of me (though it's arguably a crafty judicial compromise), I am not going to urge it on the SCOTUS in situ. Nor would my thoughts on the matter be deemed worthy to be entertained in any event, not to mention being granted leave to hold a candle for general illumination at court.
I view SB8 and qualified immunity as both schemes to deprive citizens of their constitutional rights. The difference is who created the scheme and who does the violating.
Imagine the unlikely scene where a defender of SB8 at SCOTUS argues, "If SCOTUS can create a dirty scheme, to can Texas."
SB8 has denied no Constitutional right to anyone.
Where a defendant has obtained a dismissal at or before trial, how would he have standing to appeal?
BEMOANING THE WIN - HUH ?
Well, then the defendant should be happy like any other prevailing defendant. What's so unusual? As for costs of defense, see --> the American Rule, which Texas follows.
EACH PAY OWN
Most Texas statutues that authorize attorney's fees recovery shift only one way; the successful plaintiff. I previously mentioned one exception: The Texas Theft Liability Act. That's rare and Texas attorneys occasionally have bad surprises when they lose and their client is stuck with the prevailing defendant's attorney's fees. A common-law conversion claim doesn't present the same problem.
The successful defendant remains subject to additional suits from additional plaintiffs for the same conduct. Even if he wins the first suit and obtains a finding that the statute is unconstitutional. No preclusive effect there.
A health care provider in Texas remains subject to suit at any time. Same for all natural persons and business entities. - Nothing special. There is no general anti-suit protection. Even immune entities get sued all the time. And the government lawyers are very well prepared to deal with it.
The only exception (of lawsuits that might be intercepted by the clerk at the entry point) are pro-se prisoner lawsuits (which have special requirements, see CPRC Chapter 14 INMATE LITIGATION) and lawsuits by black-listed vexatious litigants (list maintained online), and even the latter must be a given a chance to convince the local admin judge to grant permission to sue. That's because the right to petition and access the courts enjoy constitutional protection.
The other obvious problem with the hyperbolic scare-mongering is practical: Why would hordes of people pay (ca.) $300 each to file a lawsuit that's likely unwinnable? Sensible attorneys are not going to file sure-loser lawsuits, and pro se litigants are usually toast from the get-go anyhow. And if they misjudge their chances, they will be out $300. That's a deterrent that cuts down on the number ab initio, I can assure you.
So where is that avalanche of SB8 lawsuits?
SB8 has had the chilling effect that was intended. Except for a single procedure that Dr. Braid wrote about, post-¨heartbeat¨ abortions are not being performed.
Because they're ideologues, and that's a $300 investment in harassing an abortion provider.
The resultant harassment will cost the abortion providers considerably less than $300 for their fill-in-the-blank defenses.
It's not like we have to guess about this. SB8 is in effect. As WPHDM said, "where is that avalanche of SB8 lawsuits?"
I know that billing rates are likely to be less in Texas than in NYC, but you're not going to get more than an hour or two of legal services for $300. And you're not getting cases dismissed with less than two hours' work, even if it were sufficient to do a "fill-in-the-blank" defense, which it would be legal malpractice to do.
Um, nowhere, because the abortions aren't being performed.
Sorry for the duplicate comment.
That's OK
That's OK
Ilya Somin seems to be missing the point that, unlike criminal laws (which can be enforced by police even in the absence of a court order), SB8 can only be enforced by filing a complaint with a court, which will have the opportunity to perform judicial review.
SOME LEGAL LITERATI LOSE THEIR MARBLES WHEN IT COMES TO ABORTION
And vigilantes hunt down joggers and protesters, shoot them dead, i.e. take "the law" into their own hands and commit destructive violence on other human beings, rather than doing the civil thing: file a civil suit and have a civil judge make the relevant rulings, all with civility and decorum.
The professor has still failed to explain why this is different from frivolous libel lawsuits.
Been explained multiple times.
1) Frivolous libel lawsuits are a serious problem, which is why many states have adopted anti-SLAPP laws to deter them (or compensate their victims). Not only does SB8 not have an analogue, but it actually prevents courts from doing that kind of fee shifting even for a frivolous suit.
2) Libel suits, even frivolous ones, do not have all of the elements of SB8 that make it so dangerous. They require standing, don't allow venue in strange places, don't allow serial suits for the same act, don't have unlimited statutory liability, etc.
"... my argument ... is also addressed to people who value existing precedent on sovereign immunity and federal injunctions against state courts, but also value the preservation of judicial review of state government policies targeting constitutional rights."
The above is the difference in a nutshell between Ilya and the sachs guy.
Although the sachs guy hasn't expressly said that he places less value on the preservation of [pre-enforcement] judicial review (of state government policies targeting constitutional rights), it necessarily follows that sachs does hold this view based on what sachs has expressly said.
It's is simple as that. Ilya believes that the latter is the principle that warrants higher value, the sachs guy believes that the former is the principle that warrants higher value. At least in terms of what each believes the court can and should do without further legislation.
As you acknowledge, the question isn't whether there will be judicial review, merely whether it's pre or post enforcement.
And, yes, if it's post enforcement, the purported right will be violated to some extent, for some time.
Can we stop pretending that the courts ordinarily consider that a big, hairy deal?
The Supreme court routinely treats widespread rights violations as not worth its time to remedy. It waits on circuit splits. It lets circuit splits fester. It permits defendants to moot cases after certiorari is granted, and then enact only marginally different laws. It refuses certiorari without comment for DECADES AT A TIME for any case that so much as mentions a formally enumerated right it isn't enthusiastic about. And if review is eventually granted, they'll decide on some side issue and leave the right to continue being violated.
Getting effective relief out of the courts ordinarily takes years to decades!
This is how the Court routinely treats explicit rights it isn't enthusiastic about. This is normal practice.
The argument here isn't that abortion should get normal review. The argument is that it should get ultra expedited super review with an extra helping of urgency!
THE META PRINCIPLE: DOUBLE A ... AS IN ABORTION ABSOLUTISM
The problem here is the "Abortion Über Alles" mindset. All else must give. No principle or precedent must stand in the way. When it comes to assuring abortion rights, the end justifies any and all means. Always. The abortionists are the new high priests of the constitution in action and the court must bow to their will and enshrowd their fetus extractionings with rhetorical incense served up with mystical nonsense emanting from shadows and penumbras.
Doctrina ex machina descending from above if need be, for even better theatricality.
The related public chattering evinces results-orientation on steroids, of epidemic proportions, among the intelligentsia in USA, with no cure in sight. Where has all the reason gone? It gives a whole new meaning to brain drain.
Has it not occurred to anyone that the rest of the world has public policies on sex education, sexual conduct, contraception, and abortion, too, and in the absence of Roe Wade & Casey?
The time has come to abort the ill-begotten meta principle. Hopefully, the Supremes will muster the courage to deliver the coup de grâce.
/ˌko͞o də ˈɡräs/