The Volokh Conspiracy
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Why Did Judge Dismiss Weapons Charges Against Kyle Rittenhouse?
The Chicago Tribune (Christy Gutowski & Stacy St. Clair) reports:
A Kenosha County judge handed a huge win to Kyle Rittenhouse's defense team before closing arguments when he dismissed a misdemeanor gun charge against the teen.
Legal experts had considered the misdemeanor gun charge — which carries up to 12 months in jail — to be the easiest charge for the state to prove.
Ahead of Monday's closing arguments, Judge Bruce Schroeder ruled Wisconsin's open carry law is so confusingly written it can be interpreted to mean 17-year-olds can openly carry firearms as long as they're not short-barrel rifles. He believed the jury could only convict if prosecutors proved the barrel of Rittenhouse's rifle was less than 16 inches and has an overall length shorter than 26 inches….
The judge's decision stunned prosecutors, who argued his interpretation of the law does not make sense. Under the judge's interpretation, it would be illegal for a 17-year-old to carry brass knuckles in Wisconsin but permissible to carry a semi-automatic rifle.
That seems strange as a policy matter, and it surprised me; but my quick look at the statute suggests that the judge is likely correct:
948.60 Possession of a dangerous weapon [defined to include any firearm, as well as many other weapons] by a person under 18.
(3) … (c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593….
Subsection (3)(c) thus specifically excludes rifle and shotgun possession (as opposed to handgun possession) by under-18-year-olds, unless they are short-barreled (which is what § 941.28 deals with).
Now the exclusion of people who are "not in compliance with [§] 29.593" might complicate things. (Section 29.304 isn't relevant here, because it deals with hunting by under-16-year-olds.) Section 29.593 provides, in relevant part,
Requirement for certificate of accomplishment to obtain hunting approval.
(1) (a) Except as provided under subs. (2), (2m) and (3), and s. 29.592 (1), no person born on or after January 1, 1973, may obtain any approval authorizing hunting unless the person is issued a certificate of accomplishment under s. 29.591 [governing hunter education programs]….
One could therefore read the Wisconsin law as allowing under-18-year-olds to possess long guns only if they have an "approval authorizing hunting" based on "a certificate of accomplishment" (or based on out-of-state or military training or on hunting with a mentor, which is what the exceptions refer to). Indeed, perhaps that was the point of subsection (3)(c)—to allow rifle and shotgun possession by young hunters who have been properly trained.
But that's not really how subsection (3)(c) is framed: It asks whether someone is "in compliance with … 29.593," and 29.593 only governs "obtain[ing] any approval authorizing hunting," which Rittenhouse wasn't seeking. Section 29.593, after all, doesn't create a general duty of compliance, or a general obligation to get hunter education; it simply states the conditions for which one may "obtain any approval authorizing hunting." Say you were born in 1973 or later, and don't have a hunting license; would you say that you are "not in compliance with … 29.593"? I doubt it: I think you'd say that you just aren't covered by 29.593 until you seek an approval authorizing hunting.
The Tribune article notes a 2018 Wisconsin Legislative Council Information Memorandum that simply states, "Under Wisconsin law, with certain exceptions for hunting, military service, and target practice, a person under age 18 is generally prohibited from possessing or going armed with a firearm." But the memorandum doesn't discuss § 29.593(3)(c).
So, just based on the news account and the statutes, the judge's decision seems correct, especially given the "rule of lenity": "when there is doubt as to the meaning of a criminal statute, a court should apply the rule of lenity and interpret the statute in favor of the accused." Please let me know if I've missed anything here.
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"Under the judge's interpretation, it would be illegal for a 17-year-old to carry brass knuckles in Wisconsin but permissible to carry a semi-automatic rifle."
That is actually pretty common. See for example RCW 9.41.250 which prohibits possession of "any instrument or weapon of the kind usually known as slungshot, sand club, or metal knuckles, or spring blade knife".
In WA open carry of rifles or handguns is legal. Concealed carry of handguns is permitted with a Concealed Pistol License, but that explicitly permits only handguns, not any of the otherwise banned weapons.
I saw a gun rights type had a flowchart that showed how the law doesn't criminalize possession of this gun by a 17 year old. It convinced me.
The prosecutors shouldn't have brought that charge.
The prosecutors are just desperate to convict him on something, anything. They threw that one in in the hope that a jury acquitting on the murder charges might convict on a misdemeanor rather that let him off entirely.
Really, they shouldn't have brought any of the charges, their own prosecution witnesses have been acquitting him from the witness stand.
I read somewhere (and I think I've got this right) is that if he's guilty of this misdemeanor the prosecutor can argue that the defendant can't argue self-defense. Not so much as a strict legal matter, but a more common sense matter.
Doesn’t make any sense to me. Why would he lose his self defense rights because of a misdemeanor, that likely none of the people who came in contact with him were aware he might have been in violation of.
I’ll note that Kyle himself said on the stand he thought he was legally carrying. He said he would have felt more comfortable carrying a pistol, but he didn’t because that was illegal.
Wisconsin's self-defense statute ( https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/document/statutes/939.48(2) ) excludes a right of self-defense following certain kinds of "unlawful conduct".
Even if the prosecution could have convinced the jury to convict on that misdemeanor charge, I don't think it would have helped -- Rittenhouse pretty clearly wanted to not just withdraw but retreat from any combat, and only fired after being attacked when further retreat was impossible (chased down by Rosenbaum, or knocked to the ground by the angry mob).
Then wouldn't Grosskreutz lose his right to self defense also, since his carrying a gun was also illegal?
No, it’s a legal sense. One cannot argue self-defense while committing an associated crime. There are many nuances but that’s the basic rule.
One cannot argue self-defense while committing an associated crime. There are many nuances but that’s the basic rule.
In this case the biggest nuance is that you're just flat wrong. Depending on the jurisdiction, self-defense can by nullified by the commission of some crimes (that have a causal relationship with the confrontation), but that doesn't mean that you forfeit your right to self-defense for committing any offense.
https://reason.com/volokh/2020/06/27/self-defense-when-youre-violating-the-law/
NY banned nunchaku (as "chuka sticks") for a long time. It took a guy almost 14 years to get the ban overturned. Politicians have a great love of banning things, no matter how dangerous.
Under the law in some areas it is illegal for an 18 year old to watch a porno movie, but, it would be legal for them to star in one.
Remember kids, she's not a whore if she's an actress;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpnT_JFrB2s
That's hilarious!
That's an understatement.
That’s funny. But I think the payment has to be made by a third party.
/Debbie Downer
This may actually work against the defense because the jury may look for some lesser charge, and that was the least of them. Now they might decide to go with reckless endangerment, although that may be hard because Kyle didn’t hit anyone he wasn’t shooting at.
The defense preserved the issue for appeal so then they could have appealed the class A misdemeanor if he was cleared on all the other charges.
I guess the reckless endangerment charge has been virtually taken off the table too, from Andrew Branca at LegalInsurrection
“...with respect to Count 2, the reckless endangerment of McGinnis, the judge agreed to the suggestion by defense attorney Chirafisi that he would instruct the jury that if Kyle’s use of force with respect to Rosenbaum was lawful self-defense, then it was not conduct that was reckless with respect to McGinnis—so, if shooting Rosenbaum was lawful self-defense, there also was no reckless endangerment of McGinnis. Self-defense on Count 1 would also clear away Count 2.”
So from what I saw of the trial, which was quite a bit, the jury would have to be brain dead to find no self defense on Rosenbaum.
In fact it certainly seemed to me that Ziminski fired his gun in the air as part of a concerted attack by Rosenbaum to distract or spook Rittenhouse.
How certain are we that he fired into the air? Maybe he fired and missed.
I am pretty certain: Ziminsky looks like a clever, cunning, organizing-type guy. He wouldn’t put himself in a big legal danger. He and his wife tried to sic others on Riitenhouse - two times, but were not participating in both pursuits.
In my book - Ziminsky should be charged with 2 murders and one great bodily injury, not Kyle.
Which areas are those? Not anywhere in the U.S., obviously.
In much of America, brass knuckles and nunchucks are regulated much more heavily than any firearm. It's the same reason that handguns are regulated more heavily than long guns. They are used more often in crimes and are more easily concealable.
Although I agree with your bigger point, when was the last time you heard of a crime being committed with nunchucks? Was there some wave of nunchuck crimes back in the '70s that led to the bans? Were there gangs of ninjas who would first disable their targets with throwing stars (also illegal now) before moving in for the nunchuck kill?
I would wager that 99.7% of injuries from nunchucks have been accidental (either whomping yourself or your friend whilst swinging them around).
No, but there was a brief Kung Fu movie craze then and it gave some strange people the vapors. Presumably they feared random crimes by young ninja Bruce Lee wannabees randomly bludgeoning people with two cut off broom handles connected by some random length of dog chain.
What if they use rope instead of dog chain?
I can remember that as well.
I had a cousin a few years older than me who made a few. Some with chain, at least one with clothesline. I seem to remember my dad help him make at least one.
Didn't really matter. He hit himself in the head with all of them.
^ And this ultimately is the most likely outcome of anyone trying to use nunchucks without appropriate martial arts training.
He's lucky. I've seen a number of own goals on the testicles with nunchucks in the hands of the unskilled.
Then they'd be able to take them past metal detectors so those need to be made extra illegal
True. Blame Bruce Lee for the Nunchuck fear. He just made them look that intimidating.
Also, in much of America, middle-school+ aged kids walking around with rifles/shotguns is completely normal, even encouraged. IIRC, I took a gun safety course when I was 12 and was out hunting that fall.
My guess is: previous generations were more concerned with concealment, they deemed a possibility of a sudden attack more dangerous than a raw power of a weapon.
When I looked at videos of Kenosha riots, my own “living experience” (growing up in Russia) was telling me: the most dangerous thing in this environment is not those guys with long guns, - it is a possibility to get stabbed in the liver with a knife (with a “zatochka” actually, since knifes are illegal in Russia and people are using sharpened files or other metalworkers’ instrument to stab each other).
You and others around you can clearly see when a person with a long gun is going to attack you, and will hear a gunshot if he did. A stab in the liver is fast, sudden and one will ever notice, possibly until it’s too late - better chance for the attacker to get away.
All lawyer language that is not understandable at the sixth grade level fails to give notice and is void. Making people look up regulations by numbers should void the statute. The entire law should be contained in the statement of the law.
We are sick of your lawyer games. This profession is 10 times more toxic than organized crime.
It is not possible to speak in a manner that cannot be misunderstood is a very old adage.
Slightly less old is the alternate version it is not possible to speak in a manner that cannot be lawyered.
Came here to say this. State weapons laws are often so schizophrenic that this isn't really much of a shock at all.
Look at Wisconsin's knife laws for another example. Unless I'm missing something a 17-year-old can carry an automatic knife without a problem. The definition of "dangerous weapon" excludes knives.
IANAL, but I've been following this case, and your analysis is right in line with other legal analysis I've seen. Naturally the media ignore the true legal aspect in favor of alarm and ideology.
I gather that you did not watch any national news today. In all the coverage of this judge's decision to throw out this charge; not an iota of alarm. Some surprise (which is to be expected) and lots of analysis (also, to be expected). Saw it on CNN and MSNBC only. But hard to imagine that those two (more-liberal, overall) networks were sober and objective, while Fox News failed that journalistic test...although it could, of course, fail it in the opposite direction.
I gather you haven't been watching news for some time, if you think there hasn't been an iota of alarm.
What you saw, was downplaying or ignoring facts not supportive of their stream of propaganda
The tribalism is very apparent when comparing this to the Trayvon Martin tragedy. So Trayvon was like Rittenhouse defending himself from an adult behaving bizarrely…but because he was a Black teen Republicans assumed the worst and didn’t believe he had the right to defend himself from the nutty adult. So we have video of Rittenhouse punching a girl in the face…but Trayvon’s brush with the law made him an irredeemable thug. Rittenhouse testified that he thinks guns are “cool”…but Trayvon’s interest in guns as a teen made Republicans pee their panties.
The comment is nonsensical for multiple reasons, but the biggest one is that Martin wasn't on trial so whether he had "the right to defend himself" was irrelevant. The issue in that case was whether the defendant — Zimmerman — had the right to defend himself.
The Sanford PD recommended manslaughter charges against Zimmerman because Zimmerman was the adult that instigated an altercation with a teen just like Rosenbaum.
No. Trayvon Martin ambushed Zimmerman and was bashing his head against concrete.
No, Zimmerman’s bizarre behavior led to a tense situation in which Trayvon Martin believed he needed to defend himself…that is why the lead detective recommended manslaughter charges.
Zimmerman's behavior wasn't bizarre, and nothing he did authorized Martin to attack him.
His behavior was bizarre…and it’s why the Sanford PD recommended manslaughter charges.
If your behavior is bizarre, deadly force is justified. And if a police department recommends bringing criminal charges against you, you're guilty.
Got it.
Trayvon didn’t use deadly force—Zimmerman was just a huge pussy according to his defense. So if you believe Zimmerman’s use of force is reasonable then you are a big pussy like Zimmerman—you are one his groupies called the Zimmergirls with one of those newfangled male vaginas!
Troll alert. Factually disconnected responses.
Trayvon didn’t use deadly force
Cool. Let someone tackle you and repeatedly pound your head into a concrete surface and report back to us on how you just laughed it off.
Although in your case the skull and its contents aren't really a vital area.
Zimmerman’s defense was that he was a big pussy…so if you believe his use of force was reasonable then that makes you a big pussy.
You don't "defend" yourself by leaving the safety of your home where you could've called the police and going out to find the person you're so afraid of. That's not how self-defense works.
It is how assault works, though.
Bingo—Zimmerman left the safety of his SUV because he wanted to provoke a physical altercation. Thanks for having my back against these tribal losers, Brett.
"Leaving safety" is not "provocation". Ever.
Zimmerman created a tense situation with bizarre behavior…it’s why the Sanford PD recommended manslaughter charges.
It may not be provocation, but it was definitely stupid. Whether Zimmerman should have been convicted of murder or not, he was definitely guilty of being an idiot.
The murder charges were unethical overcharging and apparently that prosecutor did that frequently…except generally against African Americans that didn’t get hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations for their defense. Those prosecutors were absurdly incompetent.
It may not be provocation, but it was definitely stupid. Whether Zimmerman should have been convicted of murder or not, he was definitely guilty of being an idiot.
If that were relevant to a legal discussion you'd be doing multiple life sentences.
Zimmerman left the safety of his vehicle because the dispatcher asked him which way the unknown person had gone.
When the dispatcher realized Zimmerman had left his vehicle, she told him they did not need him to follow him. They then discussed where Zimmerman should wait for the responding police officers.
Zimmerman’s behavior was bizarre according to the lead detective. So one thing Zimmerman said is “they always get away”…except the men from the gang (Zimmerman mistakenly believed Trayvon belonged to the gang and so Trayvon wasn’t casing houses early Sunday evening while talking to his girlfriend) actually got busted but a neighbor got the credit which apparently angered Zimmerman because he wanted to be a hero. So what Zimmerman really meant was they get away from him and this time he was going to catch the thief and be a hero and win his wife back. If you read the police report you would agree with the lead detective’s assessment and agree manslaughter was the correct charge. Zimmerman is a pretty pathetic pussy…but apparently that’s the ideal American man to Republicans??
Leaving safety is relevant to self-defense, not assault. Zimmerman and Martin had equal rights to wander all around the neighborhood. But if Martin was really afraid of Zimmerman to the point that self-defense was justified, he wouldn't have LEFT his house when he'd already arrives to go look for the guy. He'd go inside and lock the damn door. By leaving a place of safety AND then attacking Zimmerman, he showed that he wasn't just acting in self-defense.
Rachel Jeantel, Trayvon's girlfriend, at trial and in two interviews on the Piers Morgan show, established that Martin was walking calmly back to the Brandy Green house and was not pursued, Rachel and Trayvon decided that the guy who had watched him had to be a homosexual. Just as Trayvon was going to open the door and give Chad Green his Skittles, Rachel convinced Trayvon he had to go back and whoop *** on that homo and keep her on the phone. So Trayvon went looking for Zimmerman, who was waiting as instructed for the police to arrive, and Trayvon proceeded to "whoop *** on that homo" to impress Rachel.
Read the Sanford PD final report that recommended manslaughter charges—Zimmerman was behaving like an assrapist and Trayvon has a right to self defense if an assrapist pursues him. Maybe you enjoy being assraped…but in America one can defend himself to prevent being assraped…even a Black teen.
Be honest:
Do you have a developmental problem which inhibits your ability to communicate like an adult?
The Sanford Police report included the FBI Uniform Crime Report code for manslaughter-possible justifiable homicide. Most jurisdictions in America, justifiable homicide is adjudicated at the grand jury or trial jury level and is charged as homicide or manslaughter at the police level.
Again, Zimmerman did not pursue Martin, Zimmerman waited for the police to arrive almost a block away, Martin turned away from the safety of Brandy Green's backdoor, hunted Zimmerman down, and assaulted him to impress his girl friend.
Again—Zimmerman instigated the altercation just like Rosenbaum! You are a Zimmerman groupie known as a Zimmergirl with a newfangled male vagina.
Idiot troll gets muted. Bye, idiot troll.
Well, yeah, but that's only what actually happened, and the important thing is that people like Cremmington have a healthy fantasy life.
You must think all pigs lie to reject the Sanford PD’s recommendation of manslaughter charges?
Which has zero bearing on wether Zimmerman or Martin initiated the physical fight.
Another case where the prosecution listened to the social media mob and went for the most serious charges. That they had no chance of proving.
Correct, the prosecutor unethically overcharged and made it a murder case and so Zimmerman didn’t even really have to make it about his self defense…the manslaughter case was solid but the jury was confused by the murder case.
I, for one, blame the Bush crime family.
Nope, Republicans’ tribal instinct to support a nut like Zimmerman just shows how Trump isn’t the problem because that incident preceded Trump becoming president. Republicans apparently do not believe the Black teen Trayvon Martin had the right to self defense like the white teen Rittenhouse.
Martin had a right to self-defense, just like anyone else. But he was never attacked by Zimmerman so never had a reason to act on it.
Zimmerman lied to Hannity and isn’t credible. We know Zimmerman’s behavior was bizarre and we know both parties were interested in fighting and we don’t know which party threw the first punch.
Don't know what lie to Hannity you are referring to, but Hannity's show isn't a court room. There was this trial that was full of witnesses and evidence. We do know what happened, and we do know that Zimmerman never attacked Martin.
Zimmerman lied to Hannity about the whereabouts of his wife on the night of the incident because he wanted people to think he was concerned for his wife’s safety. The reality is the lead investigator picked up on the fact Zimmerman was behaving bizarrely because he was a wannabe hero…but the Sanford PD only found out Zimmerman’s wife left him the night before after the trial which explains Zimmerman’s bizarre behavior—be a hero to win back his wife. His wife was convicted of lying to the authorities in relation to this incident btw.
Nope, Republicans’ tribal instinct to support a nut like Zimmerman just shows how Trump isn’t the problem
Dershowitz explained facts to a leftist propagandist, that demanded to know why Dershowitz was so insistent to defend President Trump?
Dershowitz explained he was defending the Constitution, President Trump just happened to be in the frame.
Zimmerman was defending himself. The facts proved it. I support constitutional rights, not a particular person. My tribe is the Constitution.
Trayvon Martin was defending himself…why do Republicans support the white teen’s right to self defense but not the Black teen’s right to self defense?
Trayvon was the attacker not the defender.
Incorrect, Zimmerman was the instigator like Rosenbaum. Trayvon was the teen put into a tense situation by a nutty adult.
When you attack someone first, I don't care what the other's behavior was, or how unsettling you find it. When you are the aggressor the person you attack has the right of self defense. Doesn't matter if its Florida, Wisconsin, or Timbuktu.
Zimmerman was the aggressor—so you support Trayvon’s right to self defense!
There's no evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor.
All of the evidence shows Zimmerman instigated the altercation…it’s why the Sanford PD recommended manslaughter charges.
None of the evidence shows that Zimmerman instigated anything. That's why he was acquitted.
Everything shows Zimmerman instigated the altercation. Black teens are allowed to walk down the street without some creepy pussy instigating an altercation.
By merely being on the street. Very provocative, I know. Being on the same street with somebody is right up there with 'fighting words' among valid causes for slugging somebody.
And "white Hispanic" guys are allowed to walk down the street without some guy trying to be tough coming up and attacking him. They both had a right to be on the street. Neither had a right to attack the other. Once one of them attacked, the other one had a right to defend himself. Martin was the one who attacked, therefore Zimmerman was the one who had the right to defend himself.
(I don't think I ever heard "white Hispanic" in the news until this case. The media just couldn't bring themselves not to label Zimmerman a white guy.)
That's what happens when the source of one side of a he-said-she-said is dead.
Fortunately, we have objective evidence, such as the fact that Zimmerman had been beaten like a drum, while Martin had only scuffed knuckles and a single gunshot wound.
Unless you think Zimmerman shot Martin out of the blue, and then savagely beat Martin's fists with his face, that's pretty clear evidence.
Lol, you are a proud pussy just like Zimmerman—that makes you a Zimmergirl with a male vagina!
I mean... Some people think that's what happened. One of them is right here in the comments.
So many people certain they know who kicked off the Zimmerman vs. Trayvon fight. I have bad news for you: none of you know.
I agree about the physical altercation. But we know the entire incident was instigated by an adult that knew he was armed and knew Trayvon was a teenager and all of the evidence shows Trayvon wasn’t doing anything more than walking and talking to his girlfriend. So had Trayvon been on the phone with a fellow thug then that would have been evidence he was casing houses. And if you read the Sanford PD report you would see Zimmerman’s profiling was all wrong because he thought Trayvon was a member of a specific gang and everyone agrees Trayvon was not a member of that gang. So if the teen ends up dead the adult must be prosecuted…you can’t have armed adults instigating tense situations by behaving in a bizarre manner.
I agree we know the preamble from which we can draw some moral conclusions. But we know little to nothing about what matters for a criminal homicide/self-defense analysis. Based on Zimmerman's history and what we know about his behavior that night, I suspect it's as likely as not he instigated the fight. But with the only other witness being dead, the events immediately prior to and during the fight are unknowable. Under those circumstances I think it's entirely appropriate the jury couldn't find beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did anything criminal.
"Instigated" is doing all the work here. Could you explain exactly what you mean by it, and how it relates to the actual law of when you can legitimately be kneeling on somebody beating their head into the pavement, and not appropriately shot?
The post you are replying to tells you that under the law, Zimmerman should have been acquitted.
So it's a safe bet the rest of what they are posting is not related to legalities, but to actualities.
Based on Zimmerman's history
Not relevant.
You try to sound reasonable, but the truth reveals otherwise.
Not legally relevant, but sure as heck relevant to laypeople giving their take.
"Not legally relevant, but sure as heck relevant to laypeople giving their take."
As is Martin's history, which appears to be absent from the take.
I doubt that anything useful comes from speculating about the question, "given their respective histories, which one is more likely to have started the fight."
Rittenhouse is on video punching a girl in the face.
I doubt that anything useful comes from speculating about the question, "given their respective histories, which one is more likely to have started the fight."
Given Martin's history of fondness for fighting as well as possible criminal behavior I'd say that's at least somewhat useful for estimating that likelihood. It's just that what it does to that calculus is damned inconvenient to those who are still pushing the "Zimmerman is a murderer" narrative.
Zimmerman was taking MMA lessons and had his own brushes with the law
Y'all really need to Stop Feedin' The Crummington... er Trollington.
This many years later, and utterly-divorced-from-reality clowns like Sebastian are still spouting the same bullshit talking points about the Zimmerman trial. Amazing.
So 29.583 only applies to armed persons younger than 18yo who are trying to get, but have not yet received, their Hunter training certificate. Funny law, that.
No, it only applies to people who want to use firearms for hunting.
Presumably it only actually applies *while* hunting, since that would be when having a hunter license would be relevant.
I'd argue that it's even narrower.
On its face, it applies to people who, somehow, obtain an approval authorizing hunting without being issued a certificate.
What gets me is that the Judge said that he couldn't understand the Law, so how could he expect the average citizen to understand it. In some people's eyes he should be guilty because they don't like his reason for being there and he had an "illegal" weapon. The MSM is playing this up. Just because CNN and MSNBC are "sober and objective" today, doesn't mean that they have been all along. Personally I think they are expecting an acquittal and are trying to distance themselves from it.
The problem, as you said, was that the statute was a bit muddled. It’s plain meaning probably is that 16 and 17 year olds need to have had a hunter’s education class to openly carry a long gun to hunt. This seems bolstered by the legislative history. But the statute can be tortured into meaning that 16 and 17 year olds need to have taken a hunter safety class in order to openly carry a long gun. The problem there is that Rittenhouse didn’t have reasonable knowledge of this interpretation. That in turn means that a conviction under that stilted interpretation would probably have to be dismissed on Due Process. Maybe a court could accept that interpretation - for future defendants. Just not for Rittenhouse.
No surprise, it was what has become known as LawFare - overly aggressive interpretations of criminal statutes for political prosecutions. This was, from Day 1, a political prosecution. The first shots of the night were by a riot participant. Arguably, Rittenhouse was responding to those shots, when he shot his first assailant/victim, Rosenbloom. The identity of that person is well known, but he was never arrested and charged, with the same charge they made against Rittenhouse for shooting and missing Drop Kick guy. Similarly, their star witness pointed a loaded handgun at Rittenhouse, right before being shot for doing so. That pointing a loaded pistol at someone is also a felony. Charges against him were dismissed within maybe a week before he testified for the prosecution as their star witness. Moreover, despite having pointed a loaded gun at Rittenhouse, the prosecution blocked unlocking the cell phone he was video recording with in his other hand, on the grounds that he was the victim of the attack. He probably had the best video of the confrontation, and a novel, never before used, interpretation of a victims rights protection statute was used by the prosecutors, to keep the video out of the hands of the defense.
Final note - the judge appears to be a firm believer in letting juries determine issues of fact. There were none with the weapons charge. Rittenhouse was 17 at the time, was openly carrying a long gun, wasn’t hunting, and hadn’t apparently taken the required hunter safety class. Indeed, it is quite possible that he couldn’t have legally hunted with that firearm. In any case, there were no undisputed questions of fact for a jury to determine. Rather, the only real question was how to interpret that statute - a question of law. The stock (prosecution friendly here) jury instructions didn’t fit, and the defense had requested instructions that better fit the facts. If he went with the prosecution preferred standard instructions, the jury likely would have convicted, and the verdict just as likely reversed on appeal. But with the defense’s instruction, the jury probably couldn’t convict. Knowing that the weapons charge wouldn’t survive on appeal, and if he allowed that to happen, he would have egg on his face, he did the best thing open to him, and dismissed the charge.
You hit the nail on the head.
In a riot of thousands of left-wing protestors where multiple people died, multiple buildings were burned to the ground, and from the sounds during even brief news clips, countless gunshots were discharged, the only person on trial for anything of consequence is one of the only right-wing people present?
Does that make any sense to anyone else?
It does when you take the motives of the government officials into account. Clearly they don't give a fig about Team Blue violence.
"That pointing a loaded pistol at someone is also a felony."
That statement of 'fact' is ignoring context entirely.
"That pointing a loaded pistol at someone is also a felony."
That statement of 'fact' is ignoring context entirely.
The context was Grosskreutz, along with other hostiles, chasing Rittenhouse down the street and then pointing his loaded pistol at Rittenhouse after the latter fell to the ground and was assaulted by multiple other chasers. That clearly wasn't self-defense on Grosskreutz's part, and there was no indication that Rittenhouse was an "active shooter" despite all of the bullshit claims that he was.
Here's a quaint notion. If a criminal law is so confusing that lawyers and jurists cannot agree on what it means, then the State cannot enforce it.
Maybe the Supreme Court should hold that way.
Oh, wait . . .
I'd be even more aggressive. If a jury of 12 random people cannot agree on what a law means, that law is thrown out, discarded, repealed, voided, gone. No appeals by the government. No judges can second-guess the jury. If the people who have to understand and obey a law cannot agree on what it means, it has no business remaining in existence.
It would be wonderful if juries could return verdicts on the law as well as on the guilt of the defendant. But alas, no.
Historically in common law systems they could. But judges and lawyers didn't like that.
Juries very much can discard the law. And all of Judges instructions.
Juries judge the facts and the law. Acquittals are not subject to review. See OJ
Jury nullification can be used to do so. I was dismissed from a jury pool for saying I would not follow a judge’s instructions on following the law if I thought the law was unconstitutional and the constitutionality hadn’t yet been adjudicated.
Legislation (or, repeal of) by jury. That has to be in the constitution, right?
The most celebrated current justice around here, clarence, is not of fan of discarding a criminal statue because of vagueness. He has no interest whatsoever in the rule of lenity, he favors the rule of 'lock 'em all up'.
However, that really only applies to vagrants and typical street criminals (all on the left), which put fear into upstanding god-loving real Americans.
For a case that involves guns and a conservative kid roaming the streets, blowing away those vagrants and typical street criminals (all on the left), even clarence might make an exception and discover empathy in order to find his way to some lenity for the young conservative packing heat in order to protect a distant community from those left-leaning vagrants. If a law won't allow a 17 year old conservative to go traveling with a gun in hand to protect distant communities, what good could that law possibly be?
And clarence, being black, would surely grant the same lenity to a bunch of black 17 year old roaming foreign streets with guns. Those black teenagers, in their heart of hearts, might be moved to protect some upscale white neighborhoods.
Can you elaborate, please, on why you think Justice Thomas "has no interest whatsoever in the rule of lenity"? In Sessions v. Dimaya, where Justice Thomas criticized the void-of-vagueness doctrine (on the grounds that the Constitution doesn't include such a rule), he expressly pointed to the rule of lenity as the normal alternative to striking a law down as vague. Likewise, in Borden v. U.S., he wrote that "When faced with a criminal statute too vague for the case at hand, the right answer likely is to apply the rule of lenity and 'declin[e] to apply [the statute] on a case-by-case basis.'" And though he noted that some states have abrogated the rule of lenity, it's clear that Wisconsin is not one of those states (see the case cited in the post).
For an example of where Justice Thomas he joined Justices Scalia, Souter, and Ginsburg to apply the rule of lenity -- where the other conservatives wouldn't -- see U.S. v. Santos.
Is the bigger implication of this on Rittenhouse's self-claims? The prosecution seems to be relying on the idea that Rittenhouse provoked his attackers. However, as I understand Wisconsin state code 939.48(2), then 939.48(2)(a) does not apply to the first killing because there is no longer a predicate unlawful act charged, and 939.48(2)(c) has not been supported by any evidence.
If Rittenhouse's use of lethal force then was justified, similar arguments apply to the later shootings as well. Of course, he would argue that 939.48(2)(b) was satisfied.
So, you aren't a lawyer?
So you aren’t a criminal lawyer?
If anybody here is a criminal lawyer I hope they turn themselves in.
We need a like button.
So, you don't have anything substantive to say?
IP Lawyers = Lawyers With Pocket Protectors.
If a 13 year old can decide to cut his balls off, a 17 year old can exercise his constitutional rights.
Wasn't there something about a Court ruling that requiring a person be 21 before owning a handgun, being unconstitutional? I believed it was appealed and the US Supreme Court wouldn't hear it because both of the people bringing the suit had turned 21 by the time it was put in front of the Court.
It wasn't about owning a handgun, it was about purchasing a handgun. 18 year olds can own handguns.
There is an argument, but certainly not desisive, that 17 year olds have second amendment rights. The 2nd militia act of 1792 said 17 year olds were in the unorganized militia, and they were expected to provide themselves with their own long gun when called for service.
Interesting. That wasn't what I was referring to, but, it makes sense. You had people getting married and starting families at a young age then.
17 year olds were in the unorganized militia, and they were expected to provide themselves with their own long gun when called for service.
Gun, shot, and powder
That makes up the "well regulated" part of the second amendment. Its not training as much as equipping. Militia is nothing but a committee meeting without arms, shot, and powder.
If they wanted to press provocation, and the "reasonability" of self defense, there's a risk that the defense could compare this to the shooting of Jacob Blake by police that started this whole mess.
I'm sure that the prosecution and the Judge would frown on such a comparison, yet is it pretty blatantly a double standard. The police never had to stand trial.
It says "...is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593". That's an AND not an OR. The hunting provision doesn't matter because he's in compliance with the other part. He would have to be not in compliance with both sections to lose the exception.
That interpretation does not make a lot of sense, though, because it would only criminalize carrying a short-barreled rifle or shotgun, or similar weapon, while applying for a hunting license... or something like that.
That whole sentence is drafted poorly, in large part because it has been touched by so many bills over time, but there is only one reasonably sensible reading of that particular bit. The only sensible reading is that "not" applies to the whole phrase "in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593".
This is a list of exceptions to the general rule that minors can't posses firearms. The part about short barreled rifles is an exception to the exception.
So in plain words it just means that minors can't carry short barrel rifles.
29.304 is about SBRs and short-barreled shotguns, yes. What do you think the application of 29.593 is?
From a quick glance 29.593 says you have to have a certificate saying you took the hunter's education class (or equivalent) in order to get a hunting license.
I didn't pay much attention to it, because the defense stipulated that Rittenhouse was in violation of 29.593 (but was not in violation of 29.304 due to his age).
I don't know why they would stipulate that, because it's rather obviously false and irrelevant. He doesn't satisfy the 29.593 prerequisites to get a hunting license, but that doesn't mean he was in violation of it.
Truly this law should be taken out behind the courthouse and shot.
Or re-written in sensible fashion. But still only after being shot.
Politifact says that Rittenhouse was not allowed to carry the rifle.
If only the judge had bothered to consult fact-checking sites before making his decision, he would have known better. He must be quite embarrassed.
That Politifact article also brings up that Wisconsin will honor Illinois CCW permits (which Rittenhouse would not be eligible for) but then fails to acknowledge that Wisconsin is and has long been a constitutional carry state. No one in Wisconsin requires any sort of permit for open carry.
Politifact is a trusted independent third party fact checker.
So, Facebook and Google and Twitter should be reversing the judge any minute now for false information.
Yup. Any posts or tweets claiming that the gun charge was dismissed should have misinformation warnings.
Isn't the Politifact article defamation per se?
I'd say Rittenhouse might have some hefty civil defamation claims against some folks. But this also has me wondering about the status and history of criminal libel.
Edit: I see they hedged with statements like "it's unproven" that it was legal for him to carry. Well to say that it's false that it was legal for him to carry is also unproven at best, if not false.
Politifiction also say it’s “unproven” he punched a girl in the face when it’s very easy to watch the video of him punching a girl in the face…and he’s such a clown it looks like he also punches his friends in the face.
This is the girl that was attacking his sister? Always defending people, that guy.
Rittenhouse is such an idiot he punched his friends. Breaking up a fight by holding that girl would have allowed his sister to get one good punch in before his friend restrained his sister…you must be a Zimmergirl with one of those newfangled man vaginas that makes it ok for you to punch a girl.
you must be a Zimmergirl with one of those newfangled man vaginas that makes it ok for you to punch a girl.
Lol. I'm going to stop people from attacking the women in my life.
It's a free country, and if you choose to let people beat up the lucky women in your life out of fear that people will make fun of your vagina, that's you're call.
Rittenhouse is such an idiot
Something...glass houses...something...throw stones...something, something....
YouTube did censor distribution of the video twice while I was watching.
LoL, nice sarc!
Politifact has updated with text about the charge being dismissed, but still awards a False rating to the claim that Rittenhouse could lawfully carry the rifle.
When I read this law two weeks ago, I didn’t understand why the charge was filed.
It seemed pretty obvious that they intentionally excluded typical hunting rifles from the definition of “dangerous weapons”.
Without digging into the legislative history it seems likely they banned dangerous weapons. And then carved out an exemption for hunting rifles. And then carved out an exemption from the exemption for short barreled rifles.
Maybe prosecutors should try reading the laws occasionally.
I'm not sure it excluded "typical hunting rifles" so much as rifles generally. The exception of SBRs keeps the law out of conflict with federal law, which says that you need to be 21yoa to legally possess an SBR.
> Maybe prosecutors should try reading the laws occasionally.
What makes you think the prosecutor cared about the law? The prosecutor did not even bother to submit evidence of the length of the rifle barrel.
NOT(compliance_304 AND compliance_593) = NOT_compliance_304 OR NOT_compliance_593
Perhaps not a self-evident reading but it does follow formal logic. 593 encapsulates 304 for minors 14-16 because 304 requires a mentor to be present, an explicit exception for 593, so the only (relevant) way to not be in compliance with 593 but not 304 is to be 17 and attempting to hunt without having the certificate.
but STILL 304
This is correct, and is what I argued the day the indictment was brought after I read the statutes in question.
Minors can’t have a dangerous weapons including firearms.
Rifles and shotguns don’t count as dangerous weapons under this provision unless the long gun is an SBR or SBS (can’t hunt with those) or the kid is hunting illegally.
That is pretty clear to anyone who knows anything about guns or hunting.
It’s 10x clearer than the NFA regulations. (1/10 as opaque)
I saw this pointed to a long time ago, around the time of the original events. Not on any mainstream media outlets of course.
Like the self-defense, which was very obvious and nearly certain from day one, just based on the videos that anyone could watch on Twitter.
Prof Volokh,
The defense argued a slightly different interpretation of (3) (c), that it exempts those who:
ARE NOT in violation of 941.28 (Short barreled weapons)
AND have violated BOTH 29.304 AND 29.593
The defense introduced evidence and argued that Rittenhouse did not violate 941.28 (length of barrel), did not violate 23.304 (only applies to those under 16, he is 17) and stipulated that he was in violation of 29.593.
The defense referred to motions that they claimed introduced evidence that the legislative intent was to allow minors over the age of 16 to carry long arms. I haven't read that motion, but it seems plausible looking at 23.304, titled "Restrictions on hunting and use of firearms by persons under 16 years of age", which allows 14-16 year olds to carry a rifle in public if they have completed hunter training.
It seems likely that Rittenhouse did fear for his safety and will probably be found innocent based on self-defense.
It also seems clear that if Rittenhouse's 2nd or 3rd victims had instead shot and killed Rittenhouse they would also be found innocent (trying to stop an active shooter).
Given that two people died, another has a life-long disability, and seemingly no one broke the law, I think this case serves as good evidence in favor of stronger gun control laws.
Oh, plenty of people broke the law. There was arson going on all over the place, and vandalism of every sort, and assaults by the dozen. Indeed, why was Joseph Rosenbaum attacking Rittenhouse in the first place? Because Rittenhouse was going around extinguishing the fires he was setting!
How provocative!
Perhaps some news org can validate that video, but I'm not taking some random Twitter user's word for it.
I accept it's quite possible Rosenbaum initiated the fight (it certainly sounds like he had some mental health issues). But the latter two were certainly justified in trying to stop Rittenhouse.
Again, without the gun it's likely that no one would have died or even been injured. The fact the shooting was "justified" just shows how easily guns create needless deaths.
Grosskreutz was also armed - illegally, as it happens, and so was Ziminski. Rosenbaum - eleven time pedophile rapist of five different pre-teen boys, with a history of violent assaults behind him - was chasing and attacking Rittenhouse when Ziminski fired his gun. Huber, the other dead guy, also had a history of violence, including convictions for holding a knife to the throat of his grandmother and threatening to burn the family home with them locked inside.
So in addition to people setting fires, including of occupied buildings, you have the same criminals with histories of violence openly stating they would attack Rittenhouse, and then proceeding to do so.
And you claim that if Rittenhouse had been unarmed, no one would have been injured?!
And Rittenhouse was recorded saying he wanted to shoot shoplifters.
From what I can tell all the participants had some serious issues, which isn't too surprising for people on the front lines of a riot/protest. Which is one of the reasons you don't want guns around, because they lead to incidents exactly like this one.
Violence can still happen without guns, but guys with guns tend to be emboldened in ways that unarmed people aren't. For instance, without the gun Rittenhouse would have likely left "guard duty" to the police, stayed in a group if he did go, and given unstable characters like Rosenbaum a much wider berth. Instead, having a big gun he felt protected until he got in over his head and ended up shooting people.
“And Rittenhouse was recorded saying he wanted to shoot shoplifters”
But he didn’t. Bluster in advance of committing an act is not salient if the act is never committed. He shot three of three people who threatened him with violence and he shot none of the dozens (hundreds?) who didn’t. The pattern is pretty clear.
"Perhaps some news org can validate that video"
The problem these days is that most news organizations wouldn't WANT to validate that video.
There's been a lot of video released during the trial, (Much of it far too late in the process, the feds were hiding evidence from the defense.) which confirms what happened.
Not sure what your definition of video is but the unicorn drone video that showed up at the last minute did not show much and once it was "enlarged" and I use that term loosely it looked more like one of Hunter Biden's $US500,000 paintings than a video to my old tired eyes.
Your premise is very speculative. Assume same video and photographic evidence, and just as eager a prosecution. You had somebody like GG running up to KR, who was lying on his back, and shooting KR in the head. Self-defense is kind of hard to justify when you are running to the threat to engage it. You could make a defensive argument that you anticipated great bodily harm/death to others and so were justified in using deadly force, but I think you'd still have all this same questions to overcome - did you see behavior that would qualify as an active shooter? Testimony and evidence to consider - a kid not actively shooting people, running towards police, and how did you establish your basis for ascertaining the threat? Because the crowd yelled that he shot someone? Seems like a more difficult case than KR's perspective: lying on ground getting physically assaulted by a group of people.
As devil's advocate, you could say this points out the necessity of having magazine-fed rifles. One person against a mob.
"It also seems clear that if Rittenhouse's 2nd or 3rd victims had instead shot and killed Rittenhouse they would also be found innocent (trying to stop an active shooter)."
What's the evidence that they had a reasonable belief that Rittenhouse was an active shooter?
Two and Three had seen him shoot One. People were yelling “that’s him! Get him!”
They knew that he had been shooting. Unclear if they understood the context of the original shooting though. And unclear if they cared about the context.
"Two and Three had seen him shoot One."
Then they'd seen the circumstances of the first shooting.
There was absolutely no evidence that Rittenhouse was on a shooting rampage.
If they didn't understand the context, then they didn't have grounds to use force.
The fact that he had just shot people?
The fact that he had just shot people?
No, he had just shot one person (not people, plural) in self-defense. He was not actively shooting (or even pointing his weapon) at anyone at the time he was being chased, and was running toward a police barricade. He was in no way an "active shooter" at that point. To claim otherwise is to claim that anyone who uses a firearm for self-defense is an "active shooter" from that point forward, which strips the term of its meaning.
How does self-defense make one an "active shooter"?
@Eugene Volokh,
I'm not a lawyer but I came to the same conclusion in September of 2020 and posted my analysis here. After being posted for 14 months and read by several different lawyers that I know of, there has not been any disagreement with my understanding of the law.
I dunno why you are dismissing the "and" in "29.304 and 29.593". While it may be true that 18 year olds in WI may not generally carry firearms, it is a state where 14 year olds can legally hunt on there own (with the proper license and training certificate). It is not unusual for 16 and 17 year olds to drive themselves some place to go hunting or to target practice with their own rifles or shotguns.
I have mixed feelings about this. The compliance with the hunting permit statute element could be construed as saying that carrying a gun is illegal for non-hunting purposes. Given a choice between a sensible and an absurd reading, I think judges should tend to pick the sensible reading. I don’t think the rule of lenity forces picking a nonsense interpretation just because the statute could mean that.
Context is relevant. A sex offense statute’s prohibition of “oral intercourse” doesn’t prohibit unwanted attempts at starting a conversation. Even though the words COULD mean that, the context clarifies they don’t. I see this as similar.
The section he was compliant with was 29.304, titled Restrictions on hunting and use of firearms by persons under 16 years of age.
The carrying of firearms described doesn't require hunting at all.
The compliance with the hunting permit statute element could be construed as saying that carrying a gun is illegal for non-hunting purposes.
Only if English is not your primary language.
You're batting .000 on your analysis of pretty much every subject you've commented on, and can't seem to even get basic facts correct.
DA picked up the rifle during closing and leveled it and swung it around pointing it at several people - including jurors - with his finger clearly in the trigger guard.
Showing just how clueless said DA is about weapons safety.
Keep your damn booger picker off the boom switch.
with his finger clearly on the trigger guard.
Not on the trigger guard...on the trigger itself.
https://imagez.tmz.com/image/d4/4by3/2021/11/16/d48aab5927594541800537bad8f2fe66_md.jpg
Wuz, my typo (fat fingers excuse).. I had meant that to read "in the trigger guard."
Understood...from one Vienna Sausage-fingered typist to another.
Does Rittenhouse have clear grounds for reversible appeal because the DA referred to his having chosen to remain silent when questioned by detectives? Judge admonished him, and then the DA did it again.
Any guilty finding will be appealed and not just for the 5A mess from the DA. That was far from the only error. Not to mention the BLM guy posting threats on the internet to the jury for a not guilty verdict and saying there were vids/pix of the jury.
Personally I found the prosecutor's argument that Rittenhouse shouldn't have shot Rosenbaum because "sometimes you have to take a beating" a little less than convincing.
Republicans believe that sometimes Black teens have to take an assraping like in the Trayvon Martin tragedy.
Let's not get too heady. Zimmerman was arguably guilty of assault for following Martin in a threatening manner.
Martin escalated the conflict to a physical one based on his belief that Zimmerman was going to kill him or attack his family if he led him home.
Zimmerman then used lethal force, thinking he was going to be killed.
Martin was never directly threatened, and if Zimmerman had a cheap "neighborhood watch" shirt, then this entire conflict would have been avoided, since Martin's thought would be "stupid rent-a-cop-wannabe" instead of "crazy guy following me".
It's nonsensical comparisons like that that make many people on the right think very poorly of a lot of talking points. When you pull out an obvious falsehood, you just confuse things.
"Zimmerman was arguably guilty of assault for following Martin in a threatening manner."
Yup, back to sharing a street while not black being assault.
Jesus Christ, Brett. This is just fear of black people being writ as truth. You know, like white supremacists' do.
Do polar bear hunting next.
<iJesus Christ, Brett. This is just fear of black people being writ as truth. You know, like white supremacists' do.
Do polar bear hunting next.
LOL! You skipped right over...
Black teens have to take an assraping like in the Trayvon Martin tragedy.
...and...
Zimmerman was arguably guilty of assault for following Martin in a threatening manner.
...to piss and moan at Brett's response? You're beyond even parody.
"Jesus Christ, Brett. This is just fear of black people being writ as truth. You know, like white supremacists' do."
What? Even if this comment remotely made sense, which it doesn't, being afraid of black people isn't assault.
He had a duty to be beaten by a large mob of people.
Including the primary aggressor Joseph Rosenbaum, a felon who raped five (5) young boys aged 9-11, then went to prison and continued raping there, and then was released into the community for some reason, and who that night was swaying around like an agitated gorilla, shouting "If I catch any of you alone tonight, I'm going to f****** kill you!" and "Shoot me, nigga!" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJQxjOZzCCc
Side note, Kind of amazing how much Google, YouTube et al conspire to manipulate search results and censor online content on every little topic.
So under this judge's interpretation, in Wisconsin it is legal for a 17 year old minor to openly carry a loaded rifle on the crowded streets of Kenosha without training, but to legally carry the same weapon while hunting, the minor is required to undergo an approved firearms safety class.
Like it or not, that's the way the statutes are written. And while it might seem like an "absurd" result to some, there is actually a germ of logic to being more restrictive on the hunting scenario. With simply carrying (in a non-hunting scenario) the firearm is not expected to be used at all except in unusual circumstances (like self-defense). But with hunting it is expected that the carrier will be aiming and possibly firing the weapon, possibly multiple times, as a normal part of the activity. That makes accidental injuring of other hunters (or anyone else who might be in the area for other reasons) untrained hunters more likely than accidental injuring of bystanders by someone carrying a slung/holstered weapon that is not being aimed at anyone except in the most extreme circumstances.
And even if you ignore that, presuming that legislation is always logical well-reasoned is a bad bet.
That logic seems a bit of a stretch to me when applied to minors: “unlike hunting , the chances that an untrained 17 year old carrying a loaded rifle in public would accidentally harm someone are small enough such that training is not required.”
That logic seems a bit of a stretch to me when applied to minors
First off, your paraphrased version of my comment is not at all what I said. I said that one was more likely than the other (and even stated why). I didn't say that either was "so unlikely that no training is (or should be) required". I was explaining why the legislature would not be inconsistent to require training for one but not the other. You response misrepresents what I said and simply ignores the reasoning I offered for it.
"Because it is less likely that an untrained 17 year old carrying a loaded rifle on the streets would accidentally harm someone than if the same individual carrying the same loaded rifle were hunting, training is not required in the first scenario, but it is in the second."
Is that an accurate characterization of the logic? I understand this is not your logic, but rather your offering of a potential line of reasoning about the statute that you find consistent.
"Because it is less likely that an untrained 17 year old carrying a loaded rifle on the streets would accidentally harm someone than if the same individual carrying the same loaded rifle were hunting, training is not required in the first scenario, but it is in the second."
Is that an accurate characterization of the logic?
Almost, but not quite. What I'm saying is that A > B, so it is not inconsistent to say that A could exceed some threshold value that B does not. The reasonableness of that value threshold is another matter, but there is no inconsistency or illogic in saying that A exceeds it while B does not.
Another weird wrinkle is that Rittenhouse is being tried as an adult but (until it was dismissed) for a crime (possession of a firearm by someone underaged) that only a minor could commit.
Prior to banning short barreled rifles and shotguns, the relevant section of the Wisconsin statute read:
948.60 (3) (c) This section does not apply to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a firearm having a barrel 12 inches in length or longer and who is in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593.
Obviously the intent was to carve out a hunting exception for acceptably trained minors.
With this formulation, I think Prof. Volokh's analysis is unconvincing. One could not sensibly claim the section also does not apply to a 17 year old who did not seek approval authorizing hunting as per 29.593.
In 2005, Wisconsin banned "short barreled" rifles and shotguns with rifle barrels less than 16" and shotguns with barrels less than 18". The Department of Natural Resources realized the statute needed to be amended to reflect the ban. Thus, the amended statute should have been written:
This section does not apply to a person under 18 years of age who is in compliance with 941.28 and who is in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593.
But someone chose to negate "does not apply" with "only applies", resulting in the confusing statement on the books today.
It is likely the legislative intent was to preserve the original hunting exception and not for the amended language by expediently employing the negative (does not apply to only applies) to carve out a wholly new exception allowing a 17 year old to carry certain rifles and shotguns everywhere without training.
It seems to me, the amended statute as written is a legislative drafting error and should be corrected.
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2005/related/acts/163
I agree the intent was to preserve the original meaning in the simpler earlier (1991) version of the exception, in which you had to be in compliance with BOTH referenced statutes to get the exception. HOWEVER I do not think it is reasonable to interpret "in compliance with 29.593" as requiring one to obtain hunting approval or even a certificate of accomplishment.
It is not reasonable because it would undermine some of the allowed cases in 29.304. That specifies carefully defined exceptions to allow 12-15 year olds to carry a firearm, unloaded and in a case, to a hunter safety course. Clearly they want this to be allowed BEFORE one has obtained the certificate or hunting approval. If hunting approval was required for legal posession, in most of the 29.304 restrictions could be eliminated.
It is not very clear what "compliance with 29.593" would be, since it just stipulates a requirement for obtaining a hunting permit. Plausibly, if one has no interest in hunting, there is nothing one must do to comply. It is similar to the way a 17 year old must count as "in compliance with" the under 16 restrictions ,because they place no constraints on him or her. Someone not hunting is still "in compliance with" the requirement that one get safety training before being allowed to go hunting.
Note also, by the way there is nothing anywhere in 29.304 that restricts possession to hunting. On the plain meaning of unambiguous text, a 12 or 13 year old can possess a rifle accompanied by parent -- anywhere guns not banned by other regs A 14-15 year old with a certificate of accomplishment in hunter safety can carry unsupervised, anywhere, and could have legally carried an AR into the riot zone that night, if the letter of the law is followed. There may have been an intention to support teen hunting, but there are no exceptions anywhere that only apply when hunting.
Question: Can this decision be appealed by the state? I have not seen any information addressing this question.