The Volokh Conspiracy
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Lawsuit Over Nieman Journalism Lab (at Harvard) Outing Commenter Can Go Forward
The plaintiff is Francesca Viola, who wrote the comment when she was a journalism professor at Temple University.
This decision was just handed down today by Judge Leo Sorokin (D. Mass.), in Viola v. Benton. An excerpt of the facts, as alleged by the plaintiff in her Complaint:
The Nieman Journalism Lab ("Nieman Lab") is owned by the Nieman Foundation for Journalism at Harvard University. Defendant Joshua Benton, a journalist, is the founder and director of the Nieman Lab and an employee of Harvard University. The Nieman Lab operates a website, located at www.niemanlab.org. In May 2018, the Nieman Lab used Disqus to allow readers to post comments to articles published on its website.
On May 4, 2018, the Nieman Lab posted an article titled "People Who Are Delusional, Dogmatic, or Religious Fundamentalists Are More Likely to Believe Fake News." Viola posted an anonymous comment to this article using the display name truthseeker in response to another comment criticizing the article. Viola's comment in response to the comment of a critic of the article read:
truthseeker: I am a journalism professor at a major east coast university and I completely agree with you. I follow Nieman but this is an article designed to insinuate that 1) Trump supporters who happen to be religious are delusional 2) conservative media that don't tout the democrat party talking points are disseminating 'fake news.' I will no longer use Neiman as a source.
Benton read Viola's comment. As director of the Nieman Lab, "Benton had administrative access to view Viola's email address associated with [her] comment," and he used his administrative access to identify Viola as "truthseeker." Benton located all of the above quoted comments made under the display name truthseeker….
Later that day, Benton posted a series of tweets about comments by truthseeker, accompanied by screenshots of the comments. These tweets were posted from his personal Twitter account (@jbenton), which included a bio stating, "I run @niemanlab at Harvard." Benton's first tweet, which included a link to the Nieman Lab article and a screenshot of Viola's truthseeker comment, stated:
@jbenton: I think that this attitude — permanently rejecting a news source because it accurately reports something you don't like — is exactly what you want in a journalism professor, yes? Also, spell our name right, Francesca Viola of Temple University.
Benton followed this tweet with five additional tweets displaying and commenting on screenshots of truthseeker comments that were originally posted on articles in other publications…..
Benton's tweets drew "immediate media attention which generated numerous articles about Viola that appeared in print and online as well as broadcast news coverage." Because of the tweets, Viola "immediately became a social pariah at Temple and within her community," and her colleagues demanded her firing and published an editorial criticizing her in the Temple University school newspaper. She also received dozens of harassing emails and phone calls, which caused humiliation and emotional distress. Ultimately, Viola lost her job at Temple.
The court rejected plaintiff's breach of contract, intrusion upon seclusion, disclosure of private facts, intentional infliction of emotional distress, interference with contractual relations, false light, and (with one exception) defamation claims, but had this to say about one of the promissory estoppel claims:
Viola alleges the following: First, "[a]s a website that uses the Disqus platform, Nieman Lab, and by extension Defendant[s] … are bound by the BRDPS." Second, she points to the following language from the BRDPS:
Websites or website representatives, including site moderators, publishing inappropriate content or exhibiting inappropriate behaviors in connection with their use of the Service may have their Disqus account and/or Disqus forum suspended or terminated.
The following are not allowed on sites that use Disqus: …
Deceitful data collection or distribution
User information is for moderation purposes only and collecting any information in a misleading way is prohibited. Distribution of personal identifiable information is prohibited.
Viola claims that she "agreed to the terms of and reasonably relied upon the assurances of the Harvard Privacy Policy and the Disqus Policies when accessing and commenting on the website." And finally, her "reliance was reasonable and expected under the terms of the Harvard Privacy Statement and Disqus's BRDPS which she understood were binding for use of the Nieman Lab website."
Evaluating under the standard applicable to the pending motion to dismiss, these allegations are sufficient to plausibly state a promissory estoppel claim based on the BRDPS. Given that the Nieman Lab used Disqus as a platform, Defendants could reasonably expect Viola to rely upon the BRDPS as a promise of how her information would be treated when she left comments on Nieman Lab articles. Viola alleges that she took specific action—commenting on a Nieman Lab article under the pseudonym truthseeker—based on the promise that her user information would be used for "moderation purposes only," which was violated when Benton posted her information on Twitter….
I should add that the court seems to be open to a promissory estoppel theory even without a showing that Viola was intended by Disqus and NeimanLab to be a third-party beneficiary of the BRDPS (even though the court rejected Viola's separate breach of contract theory, on the grounds that she didn't allege that she was a third-party beneficiary).
But there appears to be some authority for that. Section 90 of the influential Restatement (Second) of Contracts states,
A promise which the promisor should reasonably expect to induce action or forbearance on the part of the promisee or a third person and which does induce such action or forbearance is binding if injustice can be avoided only by enforcement of the promise.
And some courts have said (though others have disagreed) that, "Application of this section, while clearest in the case of an intended third party beneficiary, is not limited to such. See Murray on Contracts § 66.B.2, at 281 ('The Restatement 2d version of § 90, however, would also permit a recovery by a third party who justifiably relies [on the promise made to the promisee] even though such party is not an intended beneficiary')." Pennsy Supply, Inc. v. Am. Ash Recycling Corp. of Pa., 895 A.2d 595, 606 (Pa. Super. Ct. 2006).
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Bigoted, superstitious, disaffected right-wingers peddling delusional conspiracy theories have rights, too.
Studies show that atheists are more likely to own cats than Christians.
Because owning Christians isn't legal, obviously.
ba dum.
Why can't I buy a Canadian?
You can rent a Canadian, but not in a brothel.
You absolutely can (but not "may") rent a Canadian in a brothel.
Would you have it otherwise?
1. Viola posted bigoted comments that do warrant an employer taking a look: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2018/05/08/the-account-posted-conspiracy-theories-and-anti-muslim-remarks-it-may-belong-to-this-professor/
2. Benton seems like a d*ck.
"“Ms. Viola voluntarily logged into a commenting service and left a comment on our site using her Temple email address,” Benton said, according to the Inquirer. “All I did was click one link to see all the other comments she had posted using her Temple email address.”"
I see the WaPo didn't bother relating that he did it using administrative privileges in violation of TOS. Obviously they intended to falsely imply that anybody could have clicked that one link, and so Viola would have no expectation of privacy.
One can see all the comments posted via Disqus for at least some Disqus accounts -- it used to be the default setting; I am not sure if it still is the default for new accounts.
But tying that to an email account would require additional privileges, and publishing that non-public information would be where Benton (allegedly) went wrong.
Sad thing is that I'm not sure that the WaPo didn't do that out of ignorance, not knowing what admin accounts even are.
I've been following the WaPo's evolution from a fairly even-handed publication to a left-wing madhouse for years. I'm pretty sure it was deliberate.
But you think everything you don't like is deliberate and coordinated by the liberals.
Maybe it wasn't the WaPo that changed, but you.
I generally agree with your critique of Brett.
But here, the Post left out an absolutely central fact, an omission that makes Viola look a lot worse and Benton a lot less bad. I can't really criticize a conservative for thinking THIS one was intentional.
I criticize anyone who assumes malign intent without proof.
Cough, cough. Take a good long look in the mirror. That's pretty much your modus operandi. The most endearing thing about you is that you are the absolute personification of all of the things that you accuse others of.
If you didn't exist, I would have to invent you as the stereotypical Prog.
When do I assume malign intent? Do I say conservatives are evil? I'm pretty sure I don't because I don't think they are.
Only time I can think of that I speculate on people's motives not being as they appear is that Jimmy lies to troll.
Sigh, look at just about any thread you comment on. Let's start with the one above.
Here, you use your telepathy and to assign a motivation to Brett rather than argue Brett's point. My guess is that this isn't really what Brett thinks, this is really just the usual Sarcastrian strawman. Heck, we can even empirically check, but that's not the way you do things is it ? You prefer the strawmen and you would rather invent intent you assign to Brett than honestly address what he is talking about. Look through the thread, that's you in a nutshell.
No, Artifex, it's not telepathy, that's based on Brett's posting history. Some may think he's right, but no one, including Brett, really denies Brett thinks liberals in institutions from schools to corporations are coordinating to work their partisan will on America.
In fact, you can even see it in his post on social media doing a 'bait and switch' below!
And it's about a particular person, not about conservatives generally. Unlike the posts here who are straining to project some general malign truth about liberals generally.
No it isn't. You make the statement
See that word "everything" ? Almost certainly Brett doesn't think that. I see three possibilities here.
1. You are so dim you think the fallacy of the excluded middle is good logic and the above is a true statement.
2. You are a dishonest liar and knowing that Brett really doesn't believe "everything he doesn't like is coordinated by liberals" you still make the statement to discredit him. Because the strawman "everything" is easier to attack than the actually honest "some things".
3. You are a troll and don't care at all about true or not.
While I have read your posts for many years, at best I have guesses about the contents of your mind, so I am guessing it is a mix. Say 50% idiot, 40% liar, 10% troll.
I don't think my hyperbole takes away from my point that Brett declaring this is intentional is part and parcel with him thinking many, many things he doesn't like are intentional.
I also don't think my hyperbole counts as speculative telepathy, and is nowhere near in the same ballpark as the stuff Brett and AL are posting about what the libs love to do.
I don’t think my hyperbole takes away from my point
As a matter of fact it does. Your standard mode is to incorrectly add hyperbole to the conversation to misrepresent what the other person is saying. Trademark Sarcastro style is like this
Commenter: Some A's have trait B
Sarcastro: How silly, all A's do not have trait B.
... and you leave this with the implication that the commenter is wrong because you give the impression that no A's have trait B and you are driving the narrative. Again stupid, dishonest or troll and not addressing the argument at all.
Shorter Progressive: It's different when I do it
You can take it up with Brett, but if you want to take my hyperbole literally in order to prove my hypocrisy, as I said, you *still* fail, because the telepathy people are performing here is about liberalism, school leaders, and silicon valley companies. Which is vastly different and more general than a poster on an Internet website.
The thesis people are pushing is not that some A's have trait B, it's that A's generally have trait be. It's not that all A's have trait B, but it's still a very strong thesis that requires more than anecdotes, and which they are nowhere near supporting.
It's just confirmation bias - take a bad anecdote from the OP, and claim it applies universally.
Yes, I think the long march through the institutions is a real thing. Not all left-wingers are part of it, but enough are for it to be a real phenomenon, which explains why Conquest's laws are so reliably followed.
And the left-wingers who aren't part of the march aren't pushing back against it.
Does this mean every left-winger who takes part in the march is doing so as part of a conscious plan? No. Many of them do it just because it seems natural, once they get in a position to control hiring, to only hire fellow left wingers, and divert institutional resources away from the purposes of the institution, and towards 'worthy' causes.
But, why do they think that? One generation's conscious theory becomes the next generation's unconscious habit.
The left were very wise to aim at subverting academia, especially the teaching colleges. It's probably going to give them eventual victory, unfortunately; The right has awakened to the problem too late.
And I don't think I ever said you thought all liberals were part of some vast plot.
But that your reflex whenever something happens that makes conservatives are unhappy, you're pretty sure it was some intentional thing liberals in an associated institution did.
I can tell you partisanship has little to do with hiring in the government where I work. It's not like such things come up in interviews.
I do think it happens in academia, which is why I think some quotas for conservatives would not go astray.
More mirrors right ? It describes you perfectly as you are again the archetype of what you accuse others of. You only consume data from your cherry picked sources dismissing anything that doesn't fit your narrative. If you find anything that could damage your chosen progressive cause, it can't possibly be true in general, it is can only an isolated incident. Meanwhile you ascribe characteristics to conservatives in exactly the same way you accuse conservatives of tarring progressives. I know. I know. It's different when you do it.
Remember the Journolist bit where the same hacks were gaslighting and claiming no media bias right up until the whole thing blew up ? Then they pivoted seamlessly to the "everyone does it" line never admitting that they were not just wrong but stupidly or dishonestly wrong. It is where we are now. Same thing.
Your take on anecdote is the same. Is really systematic racism and CRT anything but pure religious belief back by the flimsiest of anecdote ? Anecdote seems fit you just fine when you have a narrative to push.
That fundamental hypocrisy is what defines a partizan hack, and you wear it like a suit.
I ask you, have you been reading the Washington Post for years? They're not remotely the same publication they were ten years ago.
Granted, they've never endorsed a Republican candidate for President in their history, but they were somewhat centrist until recently. I'd say that Trump broke them, like he did a lot of media outlets and organizations, but the cracks were already evident.
They're part of my media mix, and I haven't seen any change, though I haven't been looking for one.
" I’d say that Trump broke them, like he did a lot of media outlets and organizations, but the cracks were already evident. "
You stick with the people still being arrested for Jan. 6's events or still attending Trump rallies, I will stick with the Washington Post.
Let's see which continue to be part of the our society's mainstream, shaping America's future.
Carry on, clingers. You betters will let you know how far and how long.
It's pretty hard to make the argument there is no intentional coordination by the media after the Journolist scandal.
You can't really claim their isn't at least a loose network of progressives journalists that coordinate their message and decide by consensus how to handle stories.
And sure it's voluntary, there is no enforcement mechanism and anyone can write what they want.
But to claim it's not "deliberate and coordinated by the liberals" is as delusional as claiming it's behind everything in all the mainstream media.
It’s a bit like a person accused of murder by firing a gun saying all he did was wiggle his finger a little bit, what’s the big deal?
True that. But it does ommit a certain amount of context.
How odd! Others of his ideological persuasion are all such nice people...
If you're trying to insinuate all liberals are dicks, well that's a lotta dicks.
I fear you are seeing the world through dick-colored partisan lenses.
It does continuously seem like this type of attack is used by "liberals" against conservatives, or those who spouse non-liberal views.
Just because they all call you a dick doesn't mean they do that to all the conservatives...
No, it is much more common for them to call conservatives racists or Nazis.
Partisans who want to call names exist on both sides. The right tends towards commie, slaver, and also Nazi.
But that doesn't mean it's what all on the right do; just as not all on the left go for blanket applications of racist.
You forgot to include the obligatory "both sides", dude.
If you want to argue the left does more namecalling than the right, good luck buddy.
It's odd how you continually misinterpret my statements.
By these sorts of attacks I mean doxxing, revealing of confidential information or identities, and so on, in order to squash dissent.
Yes, doxxing is what I meant as well.
And you're massively generalizing based on what is a situation sufficiently extraordinary it's made it to this blog as an anecdote, not a statistic.
This is textbook confirmation bias.
Uh huh...
https://www.foxnews.com/us/doxxing-new-liberal-weapon-for-publicly-shaming-people-as-neo-nazis-klan-sympathizers
Truly a tour de force of proof by anecdote. And like 2 of them is all it takes for you?
Your complete lack of fundamental critical thinking skills is impressive.
And more...
https://www.wired.com/story/free-speech-issue-antifa-data-mining/
And more..
https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/460595-liberals-haunted-by-social-media-tactics-they-use-against-the-right
And even more...
https://www.yaf.org/news/doxxing-college-moves-to-release-personal-info-of-yaf-chapter-leaders-after-outrage-over-pro-police-instagram-post/
LOL want me to google conservative doxxing and post what I find as 'proof?'
The Wired article doesn't even have as a thesis that doxxing is a common liberal thing, you just offer it as one because it says antifa.
Your 'The Hill' article is an opinion piece be Madison Gesiotto offering little proof and lots of ipse dixit.
And your final is a self-serving article by the Young Americans for Freedom that isn't even about doxxing!
You really need to read the stories you link, even a little bit, to see if they hold up as proof of your thesis, because this was really pathetic.
Just for yucks I tried that. The first result was the Washington Post a week ago.
Unmasking the far right: An extremist paid a price when his identity was exposed online after a violent clash in Washington
"The disclosure online of Dawson’s personal information — a phenomenon known as doxing — is part of a growing effort by left-wing activists to punish members of far-right groups accused of violent behavior by exposing them to their employers, family and friends."
That's right, even the Washington Post thinks it's a left-wing thing.
Indeed. It's a mainstream, accepted left wing thing. They think they're doing the "right thing". And the major newspapers agree. Suppressing dissent this way is "good".
Googling "conservative Doxxing" we find the following..
https://www.foxnews.com/media/texas-students-react-doxxing-threats-conservatives
Freshman students threatened with doxxing if they dared to join a conservative group in college. Can you imagine? The suppression of free association and speech here?
These are the tactics that were used to suppress black rights and gay rights organization for decades, but updated to a new level of technology. They're reprehensible. But they are supported by the liberal left. Which...is no longer liberal.
Brett, you do know Google tunes based on your preferences, yes?
Here's my first link for 'conservative doxxing examples.'
https://americanlibrariesmagazine.org/blogs/the-scoop/bullying-trolling-doxxing-oh/
Sarcastro, you can't even stay on the same keywords....
You switched from "conservative doxxing" to "conservative doxxing examples".
But, we'll give you this Sarcastro...Google does use past history.
Try DuckDuckGo. "conservative doxxing." There's no tracking there.
Tell me what you see.
OK, using "Conservative doxxing" I get: https://www.newsbreak.com/news/2208132453018/twitter-promotes-conservative-doxxing-article-based-on-hacked-materials-violating-own-policy
But my thesis is that this is a stupid game, especially what the *first link* is. It proves nothing.
No, I'm not playing this stupid game on some other search engine either - it's still stupid.
Sarcastro...
See. Use a neutral web browser that doesn't see past history, and you get the truth.
But past the first link, what are the next FIFTEEN links..
All examples of liberals doxxing conservatives.
Use a neutral web browser that doesn’t see past history, and you get the truth.
No search engine will give you anything like the truth. Proof by search engine is not proof of anything.
"No search engine will give you anything like the truth".
Research? Bah, who cares about "Research"....
What's really important is what Sarcastro knows to be self-evident.
What you are doing is not research.
It's far more research than you're doing....
You're just spouting nonsense without more than a single source.
And again...
https://www.npr.org/2019/10/29/774386731/former-senate-aide-gets-probation-for-helping-dox-republicans-over-kavanaugh-hea
This is not unmasking anonymous internet info to get someone to lose their job, it's much more serious, more rare, and happened 2 years ago.
You cannot generalize based on a blizzard of anecdotes, especially when over half of them aren't even on point.
And yet again...
https://www.discoursemagazine.com/culture-and-society/2020/06/24/doxxing-scott-alexander-is-profoundly-illiberal/
What can we learn from all this?
There is a concerted, accepted liberal practice of doxxing or revealing the personal information of people they disagree with.
Whether it be people at right wing rallies, "revealed" by intensive computer searching by antifa activists...Whether it be university administrators who are badgered into releasing the personal information of conservative college groups...whether it be literal breaking and entering by liberals to reveal personal information of GOP politicians....whether it by major liberal newspapers "revealing" the name of anonymous bloggers. It's a major tactic. It's designed to suppress dissent, and undesired views.
IMPORTANTLY here, it's an accepted tactic by the mainstream liberal community. The people who do the doxxing, have no shame. They are not afraid to reveal themselves, to name themselves to major publications. Sometimes they are the major publications themselves.
Is there some minimal doxxing on the fringe far right? Yes. But it isn't accepted. The names of people doing this aren't freely publically revealed to major newspapers. You don't see the National Review revealing sources or uncovering pseudonyms of private individuals. The issue is the broad acceptance by the liberal community of this reprehensible tactic.
No, AL, we didn't learn any of that. Your sources are anecdotal, confirmation biased, and a lot of them don't even support your thesis.
What we learned is that you don't often provide sources because you are very bad at critical analysis.
IMPORTANTLY here, it’s an accepted tactic by the mainstream liberal community
Nothing you linked provides support for that; you just made it up.
I provide sources Sarcastro..... Many of them. From many different fields to support my stance... Including major liberal newspapers revealing people's real names. And other major liberal newspapers happily celebrating the people who would Dox those who are "unworthy"
You provide...nothing. Maybe one source? Eventually?
You provided sources of spotty quality. But even if everything they said was true, they do not support your generalized thesis about what's 'an accepted tactic by the mainstream liberal community.'
If you want to argue with anecdotes, you need to scope your thesis accordingly.
You have not, because you love your thesis and will confuse whatever anecdotes you dig up for data, and from there it's off to some serious unsupported demonization of those libs.
"Spotty sources"??
Here's where I came from.
Discourse Magazine
NPR
Fox News
YAF
The Hill
Wired
ONE of those isn't a major media site. Just one, from 6 different links, across the political spectrum.
You posted a single link from "americanlibrariesmagazine" to support your point. Whatever that is....
Your minimal sources are far more spotty.
Conservatives try to unmask liberals -- Project Veritas is still operating, and two right-wingers who tried to infiltrate Democratic groups with $10,000 donations were profiled in The New York Times this week -- but they are far less successful that liberals seeking to unmask conservatives.
Why? Because conservatives say far more objectionable things -- racist, misogynistic, gay-bashing, violent, xenophobic, or vote-suppressing things, for example -- than do liberals, whose 'big reveals' tend to involve sentiments about wanting people to have affordable health care, or to be able to find a clinic that performs an abortion, or to be able to vote without partisan obstacles, or the like.
Conservatives lose this battle -- and the culture war -- for sound reasons.
Hah. I'm not ad homineming your choice of media, I'm noting that when you read the actual articles, they are a mix of opinions, anecdotes, and some are even not on point.
Again, throwing out whatever your search engine spits out isn't really helpful to prove anything general, like you are trying to do.
As opposed to your article, Sarcastro, which doesn't actually describe any doxxing?
Librarians that publicly put their names and job location on a publication whining about the "macro- and micro-aggressions that people of color suffer in the presence of white people" and then were surprised when the people they were attacking complained, using the contact information publicly posted on their website.
And you can go look them up and still see their contact information there.
A synonym for anecdote is "example".
She and others, like say the meme maker CNN doxxed, are made examples as a lesson to others to keep their heads down.
So call it an anecdote, but it's clear she was being made an example of.
Under a psuedonym....
Queenie, I hope you've never posted anything that anyone could take out of context, and use against you, years later...
Well if Queenie has any brains the email she uses for comments won't trace back to her directly, and certainly not to her work email account.
The guy is definitely a dick, but there are a lot of dick's out there. No sense in making it too easy for them.
And using a work email can also open you up to being accused of using company/government resources for personal use.
Just use an email with one level of indirection, and never use your company email for something personal, especially trying to hit on an intern.
And then when they trace back via IP address?
1) if you work for an institution/company that traces IP addresses, you'll know better than to use your work account to post stuff that could get you fired. Also, don't work for anyone that does that.
2) Not being a Disqus moderator myself, I don't know if the moderation screen provides IP information. If it doesn't, this seems like it's a non-issue.
Which part of that professor’s kooky, ugly commentary was ‘taken out of context?’
Nothing she posted (at least, of the things Benton revealed) was taken out of context. The full context was given, which is why the court rejected her false light claims.
There is an allegation that one of the things he attributed to her was not actually posted by her at all, but that's an issue of defamation, not taking anything out of context.
From the complaint, the comments are out of context. They don't have the full thread, the previous comments made, and how they are responded to.
For example: "truthseeker: Really, you hater? I’m a college professor and an attorney; I’m not overweight and I don’t drink. I watch Hannity and he is absolutely right about this Seth Rich thing. You are obviously a bitter democrat..."
This is clearly in response to some comments made previously. We don't know those comments, what they said, and how they formed the discussion being made. That context is important.
My understanding is that the court is not an investigative body, so they only rule on the evidence provided to them by the disputants (or ameci which don't seem to figure in this case).
If context was so important, and if she tried to make the claim that her comments were taken out of context, why didn't her attorney provide that context in the complaint?
And having read the ruling, David appears to be correct: she denies that one of the comments attributed to her was in fact made by her, and since this is a motion to dismiss rather than an actual trial the court is required to “take all factual allegations [in the complaint] as true and . . . draw all reasonable inferences in favor of the plaintiff.” Hence, the question of whether that particular comment was hers or not is not up for debate at this stage of the trial.
"Context" is a red herring.
You want to fight about whether 'Hannity is right about Seth Rich' or 'get rid of all these Muslims' were taken out of context? What's the favorable light in which those statements might be seen, coming from an ostensible adult, let alone a professor?
I wonder why bigoted comments do warrant the employer’s attention. It would seem to me that an academic institution, in particularly a law school, should have an ironclad position on the freedom of expression. The professor seems quite a dickhead to me but an academic institution that resorts to bureaucratic sanctions in order to combat public utterances of its employees instead of using debate has failed its core mission.
I am naive enough to believe, too, that a journalist who uses underhanded and illegal means in political debate is violating journalism’s core mission.
Edit
(1) “in particular”
(2) “underhanded and possibly illegal means”
It's not just bigoted comments. The former professor is a full on kook who espouses (and presumably believes) things that are simply delusional. It's no wonder why she took offense at the article entitled "People Who Are Delusional, Dogmatic, or Religious Fundamentalists Are More Likely to Believe Fake News."
You don't get to be a professor of geology if you publicly espouse that the earth is flat.
You don't get to be a law professor if you subscribe to the Sovereign Citizen nonsense.
I can't condone Benton's actions here, but Viola has no business teaching journalism. I don't know the full circumstances of why she is no longer employed by Temple, but I would surmise that if she acted in person like she acted on line it wouldn't be long.
If (former?) Prof. Viola is no longer employed by Temple, the world appears to be a better place.
"things that are simply delusional"
You mean like the conspiracy theory that Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election?
Russia very clearly tried to influence the 2016 election in Trump's favor. That's undisputed. Whether they were successful in influencing it is probably an unanswerable question.
There is also clear evidence of Russian contacts with the Trump campaign offering to help, and those offers being greeted with enthusiasm by members of the Trump campaign. Followed by those same members lying about it when interviewed by the FBI. With again clear evidence supplied by the guilty pleas and convictions.
"Collusion" has no legal definition so your statement "Trump colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election" is a difficult thing to prove one way or another. But it's not a "conspiracy theory" unless you are so delusional that you think Robert Mueller et. al. are part of some kind of conspiracy. In which case you might want to stock on your tin foil headwear.
Clem, your bias is showing.
I said something very specific. "The conspiracy theory that Trump colluded with Russia"
Rather than respond to what was said, you changed the subject to
1. Russia very clearly tried to influence the 2016 election
2. Russian contacts with the Trump campaign offering to help,
What you've done here is switch the subject and object. It's duplicitous to do this.
"Collusion" is commutative. i.e. If I collude with you, you are colluding with me. There can't be collusion if it's a one way relationship. i.e. if Trump himself was not a participant, then no collusion between Trump and Russia. So, I'm not switching subject and object. More like pointing out that there's lots of smoke so it's not "delusional" for some people to think there's a fire.
Mueller investigated whether the relationship between Russia and the Trump campaign involved illegal conspiracy, so I suppose it is a "conspiracy theory" in the strict definition of the term. But it's not a "delusional" conspiracy theory (e.g. Pizzagate, QAnon).
In the end, Mueller determined that there was insufficient evidence to prove illegal conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law. Perhaps you'd like to explain why you think it's "delusional".
Apologies. You're ALSO being deceptive by changing the verb.
AGAIN,
1. You've switched the subject and object.
2. You've switched the verbs, then argued a "commutative" principle. From "colluded" to "Offered" or "influence"
Stop being deceptive and duplicitous. If the allegations were true, you wouldn't need to be so deceptive.
And you've posted a lot of semantic gibberish. I should have known better than to bother engaging.
You've changed the verbs used. You've changed the subject and object. "Semantics" like these make a very large difference in what's being discussed.
If you can't make your point without changing the verbs and subject and object, you don't appear to have a point.
No, I doubt he means that, because it's not at all delusional. Indeed, unlike the Seth Rich thing or Pizzagate, there's actual evidence for it. Not sufficient evidence, but actual evidence.
Pray tell
BlueAnons - BlueAnons everywhere!
I have no idea if this person posted asinine things.
I do know the doxxers probably rage about in defense of journalists not having to reveal their sources. You know, because it's like, important, man.
Delicate doofus deletes dick.
2. Benton seems like a d*ck.
A bit of one, but he did publish an apology five days later. As far as I can tell, Viola hasn't hasn't had any second thoughts about her comments.
It looks like Benton accessed information on a computer in violation of the terms of service. Isn't that a crime based upon a computer fraud statute?
The Supreme Court just said that it doesn’t constitute the crime of access in excess of authorization for an autjorized person to use a computer in violation of terms of service.
It appears that the Nieman Lab, and Benton, never promised anything, so there was no possibility of fraud on their part. Disqus created the terms of use which both Benton and Professor Viola agreed to. But it was only Disqus who made any promises to Professor Viola, not Benton or Nieman Lab.
That’s why the court threw out most of the claims. Only claims that can be pursued by a third-party beneficiary of someone else’s promise to someone else are relevant here. Here, Professor Viola was a beneficiary if Benton’s promise to Disqus when he signed up with them and got administrator priveleges for his site, Nieman Labs.
Sorry, Nieman Lab and Benton never oromised anything to Professor Viola.
Thank you. I appreciate the explanation.
But I will point out in the DOJ's theory of that case Benton could have seen hard time in the pen. Not that agree with that outcome, maybe a 6 figure settlement would be more appropriate.
Even if CAFA applied — and it doesn't, as ReaderY explains — Benton did not access information in violation of the terms of service. His violation, if any, was in revealing the information.
But the terms of service said he could access this information "for moderation purposes", and he accessed it in order to dox her, which is not a moderation purpose.
So, while the TOS may not be enforceable, he did violate them.
Indeed. His reason for accessing the data violated the TOS
Yeah, but my reading of Van Buren would be that this is exactly the sort of TOS violation that doesn't violate the CFAA.
I agree, it wouldn't violate the CFAA. It did violate the TOS.
It may also violate criminal harrassment laws.
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter265/Section43A
Thirty yeas ago, gays and lesbians were being outed.
Today, it's conservatives that are being outed. Perhaps we need to pass civil rights laws to protect conservatives as well.
Yeah out me if you want.
I actually make sure that when I make a political contribution it is over the federal reporting limit, so someone wants to see how I roll it's online in my own name.
Including my 2020 contribution to Trump. Although I do hope my contributions to Jerry Brown back in the early 80's for his Senate campaign, have not been put online. That's a little embarrassing.
I long ago made a decision to post under my own name, but I must admit that, at the time I made that decision, ending up in a concentration camp due to it didn't seem quite as plausible as it does today.
I wouldn't say the odds of that happening are better than 50-50, but they're now high enough to worry about.
I've told my son that, if he means to say anything even potentially controversial online, he should set up a fake identity with a burner email, and access it through an anonymizing proxy.
ending up in a concentration camp due to it didn’t seem quite as plausible as it does today.
Take your meds.
Yeah, I'm sure people were saying that in 1930's Germany, too. Or in China before the Cultural Revolution.
The fact that things are safe doesn't mean they'll remain safe. If I'd suggested to you even a few years ago that we'd see nightly riots in multiple big cities, you'd have dismissed that as crazy, too.
Germany went from a liberal democracy to the final solution in under a decade. I don't think you appreciate the power of exponential change applied to crazy.
This -- fretting about a fear that clingers will be sent to camps for the crime of being backward and intolerant -- is one circumstance in which being a disaffected loon comes in handy, Mr. Bellmore.
I'm personally not a fan of internet anonymity. I think a great deal of the problems with online discourse trace back to the fact that people hide behind anonymity to say things that they would never say to someone's face. Including not just insults and racist stuff and the like (although certainly that too), but also even things like deliberately lying about someone's argument.
Having said that, the flip side of the coin is that we can't go running to someone's employer any time someone says something disagreeable on the Internet.
I think your worries about internet anonymity are a bit overblown. I suspect the issue is that some people who would never otherwise be outside their own small social circle interact with different forms of minds. My guess is these same people if exposed to you directly would say exactly the same thing.
Also, think through the reputation bit. I can see that those who are a bit overawed by authority figures would tend to kowtow a bit more, but good arguments tend to stand or fall on their own. This is good for the same reason that effective peer review is anonymous.
Lastly, for a single comment maybe you are anonymous, but a pseudonym is just fine for associating a history. In the real world, I don't care who you, Brett or Sarcastro are. It is irrelevant. You do have a history of argument and discussion that I can use to understand and further future discussion and that seems perfectly good to me. The only reason I can think of that I would need further identification is if I were to aim to do you ill.
Dr. Ed 2 . . . continuing the con whining streak.
My point all along. For thousands of years, indeed, as long as humans could be called humans, being gay had to be hidden, just to remain free, or even alive, to heck with merely losing your job.
I cannot blame the wild swing the other way. I can lament it, as all people said during opening up was just to be tolerated, to live free without oppression. And yet they jumped on that bandwagon.
Well, you, and you know who you are, happily built this standard. Enjoy being the first generation to be sitting there stunned and dopey-eyed as that fearsome power shifts.
'member how outraged you were not so long ago when Disney extended benefits to domestic partners? You tried to pass laws against that! As if free people couldn't do what they wanted.
You can understand why the small minority of gays would swing too far. Why the vast majority of straights would enable it is the thing that needs explanation.
That has to be explained as a power struggle among the straights, I think, since the gays do not have the numbers to pull it off themselves.
Not everything is a power struggle.
Right, but things that involve the exercise of power tend to be power struggles.
You view gay rights as a power struggle. It's about more than just power, for people on both sides.
Completely this. As a libertarian, I tend to think about it as "who is pointing the gun ?" When you are forced by rule of law to do something you don't want to do guns are being pointed. All things codified into law are power struggles.
Deciding to frame all of life as a power struggle is on you, it's not really how you need to think about the world.
Power is a means; it's sometimes an end, but not often enough to make that the default assumption.
You really can help it can you ? You only acknowledge shades of gray when it benefits the narrative. All of life certainly isn't a power struggle, but some of it certainly seems to be and viewing it as such has great predictive power. I tend to dislike pointing guns at people and try to keep this to a minimum. Others seem to relish this.
I imagine pointing guns at people while loudly proclaiming your victimhood is not something you really want to consider, so it doesn't surprise me that you would go out of your way not to think about it.
You only acknowledge shades of gray when it benefits the narrative.
You got proof of that, chief?
viewing it as such has great predictive power
Like predicting what?
I tend to dislike pointing guns at people and try to keep this to a minimum. Others seem to relish this.
Again, if you have a philosophical choice to define all government action as inherently force, that's on you. If you read around a bit, you will see that's hardly the only way to see society. Indeed, some see *markets* as the forceful one, and democratic government as the restraining entity!
You are completely wrong about gays being hidden through all of human history.
To point out one example out of many, the Theban Sacred Band was a military unit made up exclusively of gay couples.
They crushed larger Spartan armies twice.
The Spartans themselves used homosexuality to bond their young military recruits.
" Today, it’s conservatives that are being outed. "
Those being outed are racists, xenophobes, gay-bashers, misogynists, purveyors of falsehoods and conspiracy theories, etc.
Most of the people engaged in that reprehensible conduct are conservatives, but not all conservatives are such lousy people.
Warning: If you’re going to make anonymous comments on a web site that you think might have some possibility if someday getting you in trouble at work, NEVER sign up with your work email addess. Or your personal one either. Create a special email address that you only use for that purpose and for nothing else.
Y
1. That's probably smart advice.
2. It seems to be a fair response to say: "Yes, it's a good idea to do this. But the law protects (or ought to protect) those who do not take these prophylactic steps."
The law does not protect people for comments they make, or maybe it only protects them after they sue:
"(CNN)A Norfolk police officer has been relieved of his duty after an internal investigation into reports that he donated and expressed support for the actions of Kyle Rittenhouse, who is facing two felony charges of homicide in the deaths of two men and a felony attempted homicide charge in the wounding of another man during street protests in August.
Norfolk City Manager Chip Filer fired Lt. William Kelly on Tuesday at the recommendation of Norfolk Police Chief Larry D. Boone, according to a statement from the city on Tuesday."
By the way Kelly’s comment with his 25$ contribution was:
“You’ve done nothing wrong, Every rank and file police officer supports you. Don’t be discouraged by actions of the political class of law enforcement leadership.”
Which of course pissed off his chief who evidently is in the "political class of law enforcement leadership".
Because patting a guy on the back and saying he did nothing wrong is totally a great look for a law enforcement officer when the kid illegally possessed the weapon, took it across state lines to a protest, shot three people and killed two of them.
Officers need to give testimony as part of their job. Public statements that show a disregard for the law when the crime fit the offier's political agenda would diminish his value as a witness in court. They also reduce trust in the police force in the local community.
[IANAL]
You claim three things, and managed to be wrong about two of the three - the only two that even imply wrongdoing.
Great job there, dude!
The reflex to upchuck proven lies by morons like Shawn is both hilarious and expected. As is the butt hurt. Always the butt hurt (Artie Poooooooooh........).
And especially never use the same user name at other websites like YouPorn or Storm front, even if you use different emails.
And double especially never use the same user name as anyone else at a different web site. There was amazing awkwardness when NwordLover at YouPorn, Stormfront and Language Log were confused for each other! (The third one was a big fan of use-vs-mention distinctions.)
Professor Volokh,
Let me ask a direct question. may be against your self-interest to discuss this given the possibility, as this case illustrates, that web site administrators can potentially be sued by disgruntled commenters. But you have raised the general subject.
Do you believe the Volokh Conspiracy and Reason Magazine have a binding legal obligation to protect the anonymity and confidentiality of identifying information of commentators? If so, what is the basis of that obligation? Does it extend to past Conspiracy host sites, such as the Washington Post?
Thanks.
A more interesting question to me is what remedy is available. More than once Harvard has been described as a hedge fund that owns a university. Lets say Viola wins. Use any numbers you want but say she claims she is making $US100,000 a year and would be teaching for another ten years; that means she gets a cool million. Lets add another three million for punitive damages and round things up to five million because we are nice.
Five million would be a rounding error in Harvard's bookkeeping. So while Viola would wind up with a nice chunk of change it would do little to change Harvard's propensity to bash conservatives. Remember the Sandman mess at WaPo and CNN. Sure the kid got big bucks but again both WaPo and CNN have done nothing to alter their political slant.
For extra credit maybe Professor Volokh could enlighten us on his position on the WaPo and CNN settlement amounts being disclosed given his crusade for open records. I do realize the amounts are not really part of the court record but if you use the court system to force a settlement maybe they should be.
Do you see the time stamp on each comment? In about 5 minutes, I can get your IP address from that time. From that, I can learn more about you than your mother does.
If your club expels you for the comments you made here, why not sue your club, leave Volokh alone? Your club damaged you, not the host of your comments.
Well the answer to your question Y is what were the terms of service you agreed to when you created your account which you could probably create a new account to see. And probably more importantly what is Prof. Volokh's contract with reason say and did he agree to any terms of service regarding access to the comments system?
If reason used Discus then then we would know that he could be liable for damages by breaching the agreement, and injuring a 3rd party who relied on that agreement.
But absent that I think he'd be in the clear. If they didn't tell you your email was sacred, and he didn't agree to keep it sacred, then I can't see where any liability would come from.
The question to Professor Volokh asked about what Professor Volokh believes.
Wow...stifle debate...that this guy would do this...shows how insane the left has become..but it will just drive all this underground like in communist countries and you know who will win in the end and it won't be the Nieman lab for Journalism...might take years but this kind of bolshevik bs doesn't work
It's not the first time.
How does the clingers’ outrage concerning the left’s conduct in this regard square with the adoration of Project Vertitas?
All agents of the Chinese Commie Party will be cancelled.
It's such a common move on here to take a story being highlighted for being out of the norm, and try and generalize it to apply to all liberals.
It's lame partisan demonization, and it's just not true.
Does this kind of thing happen from the right, but Prof. Volokh just ignores those cases? Or is it overwhelmingly from the illiberal left? What does the Biden DOJ say about those cases?
How often has doxing-as-tort happened at all?. Certainly it's not come up at the VC very much, despite your attempt to characterize as overwhelmingly.
Also, even if you were right, all of set A being part of set B does not mean all of set B is part of set A.
It's actually kind of unusual to be able to identify the doxer; Ironically, they tend to take great care to avoid being identified, and do it from burner accounts.
So you're going to generalize anyhow, but without evidence.
That's been my personal experience, anyway. Maybe the last time somebody contacted your employer and tried to get YOU fired over an internet comment, it went differently.
Don't generalize based on personal experience, even if - *especially if* - it sucks.
" Does this kind of thing happen from the right, but Prof. Volokh just ignores those cases? "
If you are asking whether Prof. Volokh selectively and misleadingly curates his contributions to this blog for perceived partisan profit . . . welcome to this site, newbie!
What is especially troubling is Ms. Viola's ethnicity...Italian Americans are often attacked by the left wing mob...I wonder if this guy was driven by Anti-Italian views as well...I've found it is often there especially with certain liberal types...
Just because you envy how the left plays the race card, doesn't mean you won't be lame trying to clumsily play it yourself.
I'm not just being honest...see it all the time...again a certain group of liberals (usually wealthy NYC times) have some grudge against Italians...shows by the lack of Italians at places like Goldman, the Fed, Academia, and the Media...always underrepresented..
I do wonder why the Biden Administration butted in here, and asked the court not to take the case.
If I was feeling particularly feisty, I might suggest the Biden Administration didn't want the deep blue states of NY and MA to lose tax revenue...Especially not to people residing in purple states...
Edit. Wrong thread.
Why sue Harvard when Temple oppressed and fired her? Lawyer stupidity knows no bounds.
And the libs are going to wonder what they did so wrong when the tables turn....
The tables haven't turned in over two hundred years and there are absolutely no indications the tables will turn in the next generation.
Keep dreaming 'cause that's all you got.
Right-wingers clinging to hollow dreams of becoming competitive in the contest to shape our national progress are among my favorite culture war casualties.
The table belongs to your betters, Jimmy. You get to whine about it all you like.
So, is “Neiman” misspelled in the title on purpose or what?
It's a start. I have long thought that theories in contract and promissory estoppel should be used (and allowed somewhat generously by courts) against internet service providers whose rhetoric early on induced many to dedicate their online presences to these companies, only to later have the rug pulled out. Think of Twitter claiming to be the "free speech wing of the free speech party" then allowing its creeping totalitarianism to put the lie to this statement as time went on.
There is a certain element of bait and switch here, these platforms would never have remotely approached their current dominance if they'd been honest about their intent to start censoring once they were dominant. Really, if they'd been honest about a great many of their plans, such as monetizing violating user privacy.
Yes, Twitter and Facebook had this secret plan all along to censor conservatives as private actors.
FFS, Brett, get a grip.
I tend to think that they started out just meaning to make money, and then realized the other possibilities. But realizing after the fact that you can run a bait and switch on people doesn't make it not a bait and switch.
I'm pretty sure they still just mean to make money.
Then when you said "honest about their intent", you really meant honest about the intent they didn't have?
Twitter and Facebook don't target conservatives. They sometimes pick on bigots and delusional liars, though, which riles conservatives.
Readers are missing the real story here: As of 2018 George Soros had not yet exterminated every last conservative professor of journalism.
Just outrageous. Not just a supervillain, he's incompetent too!
I'm not sure it's fair to call a supervillain incompetent just because their nefarious scheme takes time to finish.
A professor of journalism -- at a mainstream, legitimate school -- is likely to be well-educated, civic-minded, and a reasoning resident of a modern, successful community. That influences the liberal-conservative likelihood.
Temple should be defunded and shut down. Shut down this outlet of Chinese Commie Party propaganda.