The Volokh Conspiracy
Mostly law professors | Sometimes contrarian | Often libertarian | Always independent
Remember RBG?
Today would have been Justice Ginsburg's 88th birthday. Her passing nearly 6 months ago was immediately overtaken by President Trumps decision to fill her seat before the election. At the time, there seemed to be a muted reaction to Ginsburg's death, as all the focus was placed on Ginsburg's dying wish: that Trump not fill her seat. During her life, Justice Ginsburg was a rock star, and larger than life personality. But from my vantage point, discussions about RBG are fading. Six months later, Justice Amy Coney Barrett is the junior justice, and Court watchers seem to have moved on.
Today, the most common reference to Ginsburg seems to be a regret that she didn't step down when Democrats had 60 votes in the Senate. Indeed, that criticism arises in the context of Justice Breyer's decision to step down now--albeit with a 50-vote majority. Beyond Ginsburg's decision to not retire, what exactly is her impact on the current Court? Discussions about her jurisprudence are slim. How often can you talk about the VMI case? This term the Court will decide--and probably mess up a personal jurisdiction case. I'm sure Ginsburg would have written the majority opinion. Maybe whoever writes the majority opinion will cite an RBG decision. Beyond that? I'm not sure.
Justice Scalia died five years and one month ago. He has not been forgotten. Justice Kagan often quips that she pretends there is a "Little Nino" sitting on her shoulder. On a regular basis, Justices spar over who can claim the mantle of Scalia's jurisprudence. Look no further than Bostock. Citations to Reading Law are incessant. Still, the Justice hedge on citing legislative history. And, of course, critics are still trying to cancel Scalia for his conservative views.
Justice Gorsuch often relays a story from Justice White. Justice White would ask his clerks how many portraits of Justices they could identify. A young Gorsuch said maybe half. White relayed that soon enough, people would forget him. Indeed. Most of my law students have never heard of White. When I teach some of his First Amendment decisions, I make a point of talking about Whizzer White. But all students know Holmes. They know Brandeis. They know Marshall and Story. They know these legends not because of the substantive results reached in any particular case (who actually cares about the Bank of the United States or the Sedition Act of 1917). They know these giants because of their legal acumen. Their way of thinking will endure long after the controversies of the day. And, I submit, law students will know Scalia for generations to come.
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The article says that Breyer has decided to retire ("...that criticism arises in the context of Justice Breyer's decision to step down now..."), but he hasn't. The linked op-ed just says that he should.
Just a tiny detail.
Just wait until Mattel produces the Justice RBG action figure!
The one that nods off if you don't poke it every five minutes?
Today would be a good day to apologize for this evil, hateful statement, Rabbi: "In my opinion, the Soviets were also right to rape all those Nazi-supporting German women and girls when they conquered Berlin." (Rabbi Harvey Weinstein, March 4, 2021, 8:44 a.m.)
I bet the invisible rabbit is having the best day of his parody account ever, laughing like crazy every time you strike gold for him like this. It's certainly started my day with a good chortling.
Did you start off today thinking 'Today will be the day the guy who said “In my opinion, the Soviets were also right to rape all those Nazi-supporting German women and girls when they conquered Berlin” and I will draw swords together?'
Will it come with a sleeping parrot?
"Indeed, that criticism arises in the context of Justice Breyer's decision to step down now"
I read that as meaning he'd actually made such a decision. He hasn't. Or if he has, it isn't public. Maybe you should change that to read, "in the context of suggestions that Justice Breyer step down"?
That's an odd title for a blog about Justice Scalia.
That's an odd comment when RBG has two paragraphs and Scalia only one.
That's an odd way of counting when the last two paragraphs are about Scalia, including the final conclusion.
When I teach some of his First Amendment decisions, I make a point of talking about Whizzer White. But all students know Holmes. They know Brandeis. They know Marshall and Story. They know these legends not because of the substantive results reached in any particular case (who actually cares about the Bank of the United States or the Sedition Act of 1917). They know these giants because of their legal acumen.
So they know about these Justices "because of their legal acumen," but know nothing about their cases or decisions? That's odd. How did the students conclude that they were "giants" without knowing what they did?
Sounds more like, "Everyone says so, so it must be true," than any reasoned evaluation.
Plus, fame is not everything. Roger Taney is well-remembered also.
So, tell us which RBG decisions showed her "legal acumen", as opposed to her morally wretched lust for power and abuse of office to push whatever position she personally desires, nothing else needed.
I'll wait
"How did the students conclude that they were “giants” without knowing what they did?"
I'm sure my 12 year old could tell you that RGB was a legal giant. I am also pretty sure she could tell you absolutely nothing about her legal career beyond stuttering about "first...?"
Women make up more than half of the population. Yet there have only been *four* women SCOTUS justices. She was one of the four. Amazing.
There have been 5 women on the court, and 3 are currently on the court
"Women are physically and intellectually inferior to men. Their role is to bear children and ensure the survival of our species."
Hey! No response from your fanboi. Maybe he has finally figured it out....
Look at female interests. The innovators, achievers, and leaders are mostly male. That includes knitting, for Pete's Sakes.
Females bring reproduction, a gigantic value, to the table. Males have to strive to not fall way behind in value. Reproduction is the sole purpose of life. Everything else is to serve that purpose or pointless. Why women would want to imitate the pathetic male is a mystery, just cultural Commie propaganda.
This court's for f*cking
Why would you expect women to be on the Court in proportion to their numbers in the general population? They're not drawn from the general population, but instead high end jurists.
Until moderately recently, few women were entering the judiciary at the bottom, and only experienced jurists get nominated to the Court. By that standard they're actually over-represented relative to the available pool from which they're drawn.
That will change in time, in fact already there are many women judges. I think more than half of all law students are women.
Right, that's the point where we switch over from "serious problem" to, "stop being a whiney crybaby": When women go from being under represented to over-represented.
Ah, life in a country that's transitioning to being a matriarchy.
It hasn't even happened and you're already being a whiney crybaby about it.
The SCOTUS has additional functions beyond those of standard high end jurists.
Two of the big ones are ensuring that the Judiciary is viewed as legitimate and ensuring that the public feels as though someone who understands their concerns is on the court.
For both of these interests it makes sense to have a court that's not just as diverse as the general public but is in fact more diverse.
Imagine the court was almost all women, would you feel comfortable having them deciding a case where a man was wrongfully accused of sexual harassment? What about a court of mostly atheists deciding a case of religious discrimination?
Frankly, the SCOTUS does have a serious legitimacy problem right now, though that stems more from the legislative games surrounding the replacement of Scalia and RBG. The court has so far refrained from decisions controversial enough to bring the problem to the forefront, but if a controversial decisions start popping up the legitimacy becomes a very big deal.
"not just as diverse as the general public but is in fact more diverse."
What does that even mean except "conforms to my idea of who should be on the Court?"
As much as possible a member of the public can look to the court and say "there exists Justice X whom I feel will represent my interests".
That doesn't mean every Justice should represent everyone, but consider African Americans, Clarence Thomas is the only black justice and on virtually every topic his views are not shared by the majority of African Americans. As a ground I'm not sure they feel represented on the court.
By this measure Barret was a good pick (though at a bad time) since Socially Conservative women were not otherwise represented. But Kavanaugh and Gorsuch? The white male conservative viewpoint was hardly unrepresented.
I don't claim it's the only criteria (obviously qualifications and judicial philosophy matter as well) but it's important.
A diverse court where two justices held that it was unconstitutional for a state to enact a state constitutional amendment that required compliance with the 14th amendment of the US Constitution!
Written by the wise latino joined by Ginsburg - shuttte v Bamn
It's fair to say that the problem in terms of gender representation on the Supreme Court wasn't unique to the Supreme Court, but all you're pointing out is that there were big barriers to women going to law school, getting fancy clerkships, becoming judges, etc. in the past. That just demonstrates that the problem was widespread, although as others note the law is an area where we've made a lot more progress than elsewhere.
Is the whole population relevant in any way?
The number of people in the population who are trained for and qualify to sit on SCOTUS is much more limited than the whole population.
And until some 30 to 40 years ago, included very few women.
Women make up more than half of the population. Yet there have only been *four* women SCOTUS justices.
Your comment is both silly and factually incorrect...which is not at all amazing.
O'Connor, RBG, Sotomayor, Kagan, ACB
That's five
Apparently your legal judgements are as good as your ability to count
Ginsburg's legacy?
Dead brown babies. Millions and millions of dead brown babies -- that is her legacy.
The lawyer gets agitated when that little fact is brought up. They are covering up for this mass murderer, beyond the imagination of the worst KKK genocidal maniac.
Blacks make up just (about) 12% of the U.S. population but accounted for 38% of reported abortions. The Black abortion rate (abortions per 1,000 women aged 15-44 years) was 3.8 times higher than white abortion rate and 2.15 times higher than the Hispanic abortion rate.
We need more abortions, rather than less, with numbers like that.
You're a sick one Margaret
Interesting statistic but I would like to see it normalized against a women's economic status. I am guessing black women have more abortions because they are poorer. They like have less information and access to birth control. They likely have less means to raise a child and so opt to end the pregnancy.
Another factor may be material health, as black woman have a two to three times greater chance or dying from a pregnancy and so may elect to end the pregnancy for health reasons.
It's so weird that you haven't heard this before. Even the pro-abortion Guttmacher Institute says black abortion rate is 5 times higher. Just weird because you obviously never heard any pro-life perspectives stated in any significant amount.
Of course, haranguing over the reasons why this is so misses the main point.
I have heard this claim many times. I am suggesting that social economic levels have more to do with the fact that large number of black women have abortions. This is also suggested in the literature including this paper, Jones & Jerman, Am J Public Health. 2017;107:1904–1909.
"Millions and millions of dead brown babies"
True but don't sell the millions and millions of dead white babies short.
That is her legacy as well.
But, to also answer Moderation's question, Sanger, Ginsburg and their ilk specifically targeted black and brown folk for elimination, even after the wrong kind of white folk (anyone not them) were declared legitimate targets in their war.
The bodycounts are staggering ...
Ah yes, the current state of small-government conservatism. Favoring governments forcing women to carry babies to term against their will. Too bad you aren't so concerned with human life post partem. I guess it's harder to single out women for devaluation at that point.
Was she the very top female lawyer in the US? She got on the court under affirmative action, and underperformed intellectually.
She was so filled with hate for men, she refused to leave the Court despite physical pain and impairment.
Scalia is not remembered for his "legal acumen". He was actually quite clumsy (not to mention inconsistent) in getting to the result he wanted. He is remembered because he told a lot of people what they wanted to hear. He was also in the right place at the right time. He made no attempt to cobble together majorities or harmonize his opinions with the others; it was simply his good fortune that Republican Presidents gradually surrounded him with like minded Justices. To be fair he was also a good writer, but his prose stands out mostly for saying things that were previously considered unsayable.
And as far as Ginsburg not retiring "when Democrats had 60 votes in the Senate", that would have been impossible for her to do even if she wanted to, absent clairvoyant powers. The Democrats had 60 votes for about four months: from September 2009, when Paul Kirk was appointed to replace the dead (and long out of commission) Ted Kennedy, to January 2010, when (to everyone's surprise) Massachusetts elected a Republican to replace Kirk.
The Dems had 60 from June 30, when AL Franken took his seat, to Feb 4, when Brown took his
But even without 60 votes, back in 2008, and even until 2014, it would have been fairly easy to get enough Republicans on board to confirm a nomination to replace RBG had she decided to retire
After Franken was seated it was still 59. Kennedy was practically in a coma by then and hadn't been able to vote for several months.
"it would have been fairly easy to get enough Republicans on board to confirm a nomination to replace RBG had she decided to retire"
Ha ha ha. That's a good one.
"Ha ha ha. That’s a good one."
What's it like living in a world where Kagan and Sotomayor were never confirmed?
You're right -- forgot about that! Sorry.
Not only a good one, but true. It also would have been easy at the beginning of BHO's second term
Get real.
How did ObamaCare pass the Senate if the Democrats didn't have 60 votes?
Sounds about right concerning Scalia's reputation. past, present, or future. If he is much remembered at all, it will likely be for his prose style, much like Benjamin Cardozo. (Richard Posner wrote on interesting book about the persistence of Cardozo's reputation, suggesting that his prose style kept his reputation higher than his jurisprudential contributions, particularly when on the Supreme Court, would otherwise warrant.)
Ginsburg won't be remembered at all. As the first liberal female justice she got press but there are 2 others now and more to come.
What are her landmark decisions? Or even memorable ones?
I was talking about Scalia, not RBG, but since you asked....
With RBG, as with Thurgood Marshall, it is fair to say that they made their largest mark on the law as advocates rather than as judges. Hardly a knock on either of them, because very few Supreme Court Justices ever had comparable influence because of their judicial work. And that's probably just as well. Judges who think they can make a huge impact are usually mistaken, or worse.
To the dismay of some, who should have known better, RBG was a careful, methodical, workpersonlike Justice in the incremental, common-law tradition, not given to grand theoretical pronouncements or lectures on methodology that, in practice, neither explains nor constrains, in contrast to her great personal friend, Antonin Scalia.
I would agree that there are few, if any, signature RBG majority decisions. She was often outvoted, so the influence, if any, of her dissents, remains to be seen. Again, not a knock on RBG; of the hundreds of Justices who have served, only a small handful of individual Justices rise above the level of able craftspersons, and many do not rise to that level.
Shorter you:
RBG was an advocate, not a judge. She was one before she got on the bench, and that didn't change in the least after she got on the bench.
Nothing she ruled will be remembered, because nothing she did was based on any other principle other than "getting her way."
Reading comprehension been a problem all your life, or is this recent?
Watch it, prof! Some will take the "88" for a Hitler reference and cancel you!
We must secure the existence of our people and a future for Ashkenazim children. Hail Herzl! Hail Victory!
I find the tone of this article to be incredibly petty and in poor taste.
"Celebrating" RBG's birthday by basically gloating over her death, the controversy over her replacement, and her perceived (by the author) lack of impact on judicial reasoning.
Frankly, it's almost as bad as when Backman spun RBG's dying wish trying make her sound like a hypocrite.
In fact, that previous article got me to swear off Blackman articles and almost got me to stop reading VC entirely. I suppose I should be grateful for the reminder that I should simply ignore his objectionable drivel.
My dying wish is that all the Arab Muslims and Christians will be deported from Israel but I don't expect that to happen. RBG made a calculated political gamble and lost.
Don't expect so much from a guy at a tier 5 law school.
I thought it was four tiers, then the unranked. But I could be wrong. I do not spend much time considering low-quality (and often conservative-controlled) schools.
In remembrance of RBG, must watch video, as it happened (C-SPAN):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knlJWu815C0&ab_channel=C-SPAN
RBG legacy is that of a backward feminist who is directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of unborn babies. That ought to be the only memory we have of her.
Did you fail torts?
I think I could name every Supreme Court justice by portrait from the Warren Court-on. I could probably get half the FDR appointees.
Surely Scalia will always be That Torture Guy.
"During her life, Justice Ginsburg was a rock star"
Can you think of any rock stars who in their lifetime were treated like Supreme Court Justices?
It might be difficult to think of any way in which Keith Richards or Bruce Springsteen has not been treated (when desired) at least as well as a Supreme Court justice in just about every respect.
How many people complaining about Ginsburg’s abortion jurisprudence forcibly detain reluctant pregnant women until they give birth? If you don’t raise your hand, you’re probably just as responsible for terminated pregnancies since you too go about your day while women choose to carry to term or not.
You know, there are people I dislike who have died. I generally don’t go out of my way to remember their birthday, make a public comment about how no one will remember them, gloat about someone replacing them, and then say someone else will be remembered more fondly.
Then again, I’m not an asshole.
Eh, all true, (I tend not to think about RBG at all, unless somebody brings her up.) but that still doesn't follow.
RBG was the worst justice since I have been paying attention which is about 1985 or so.
She believed in considering international law in her rulings. Like her lib counterparts the constitution never seems to be a consideration
I believe that if RBG had retired in Obama's last year (2016), Mitch McConnell would not have blocked a mainstream progressive replacement. Replacing the conservative Scalia with a progressive vote was a different matter, however.
For those who care, SCOTUSBlog has a March Madness (TM) bracket of 16 contenders for all-time great Justices. RBG is 16. The possible contenders, if all were included, might have made a round of 32. Some of the more prominent "bubble" Justices were Field, Stone, Taney, and Cardozo.
You can always vote for a GOP candidate that is either nuts, a grifter, or both.
The right started a culture war and nobody came and they still lost, but the fight to save Dr Suess from transgender kids goes hatefully on.
Actually I think we're all pretty jaded about dumb parody accounts, but I'd never stoop to mocking someone who got upset by that particular quote. It was fucked up.
In my opinion, the Lorax was morally justified in raping the Once-Ler for the environmental destruction that was caused with his textile factory.
The Left should be proud of starting a culture war and winning. Why duck the credit?
Nige comment - but the fight to save Dr Suess from transgender kids goes hatefully on.
The fight to continue josef mengele experiments on the mentally ill goes hatefully on.
I sympathize with the right on the whole Dr. Seuss thing. After all, it's much harder to teach their kids to be racist if there is no racism in children's books.
What an impossibly high bar you set, for a black man to clear.
Acknowledgement that it was fucked-up thing to say.
You started the culture war because you decided that what you were doing was a war, and because that was a massive category error, you lost, in the sense that you failed to stop culture changing, but you won, because now lots of right-wing people seem to think that stridently defending Dr Suess from cancellation is the same as governing.
Are you SURE you're not a left wing parody of a right winger trying to parody the left?
Becase I don't see culture as a war. It's dumb. Also cynical. The left were never really the targets in the right wing culture wars. They were always intended to be lost, to drive right wing grievance. Seems to have worked.
That is one of the most demeaning remarks that I have ever read about BHO on this website.
I believe you are supposed to capitalize Black to show respect to our superiors.
Don't call it a war if you like. Maybe you like the description a banging heads against a wall until it breaks. The war was the Left striving to change what was firmly established. For the most part it succeeded
That's not war, it's not even the left, that's just the people who create stuff not wanting to do the same stuff over and over again.
Sorry, just to add - the 'war' part is the right pretending that this is some sort of threat.
Superstitious White nationalists with a taste for old-timey superstition are among my favorite culture war casualties.
A century from now, Ruth Bader Ginsburg's preferences will have prevailed to the point at which substantial opposition to them will be difficult to imagine. There will be a statue of her in a prominent location in the (quite small) District of Columbia, perhaps at the Capitol or perhaps more likely at the Ruth Bader Ginsburg Courthouse (formerly 1 First Street, Northeast). Antonin Scalia will be mentioned, if at all, mostly in proximity to Roger Taney. There will be a statue of him in a shed owned or rented by whomever bid highest during the liquidation auction of the contents of the Federalist Society's headquarters.
A century from now RBG's preferences will have killed off the people who held them, thanks to their failure to reproduce, kind of like the Shakers.
The future actually belongs to those who reject RBG's preferences, and succeed in educating their own children.
Huh. No.
'Conserve' can have multiple meanings or applications, and is entirely appropriate and desireable in many areas, but in culture? I mean, to take part in culture, you have to create, contribute to it. Conservatives never used to have problems contributing to culture before, or influencing it. Declaring war on it? That's just politics. Culture actually suffered to my mind because conservatives declared war on it rather than contributed or influenced it.
He is an equal opportunity troll.
You're predicting the Age of the Homeschooled, Brett Bellmore?
You figure bigoted right-wingers are about to turn the decades-established tide of the culture war, and suddenly prevent the liberal-libertarian mainstream from shaping our national progress against the efforts and hopes of conservatives?
The culture war isn't over but it has been settled. Your side lost. Mine has won. I am content.
I'm predicting that social movements that induce people to fail to reproduce will naturally die out in favor of social movements held by people who actually have children.
The only way a social movement that causes people to not have children can survive, is to parasitically convert the children of people who aren't members of the movement. Which children will, themselves fail to have more children.
Essentially, the left's survival is utterly dependent on the continued existence of a large pool of people who reject its values. But those who reject the left's values are not dependent on the left.
All that's necessary for the right to prevail in the long run is to stop letting the left indoctrinate their children. Which last year's school shutdowns probably started in motion.
Telling transgender kids they're willing subjects for Mengele experiments is the most fucked up thing I've heard anyone tell kids trying to come to terms with who they are in a while, but it sure shows you give a shit about them.
It says far more about you when you would embrace mengele experiments for those with mental disorders and the lack of compassion to embrace a fad treatment.
Poe's law, dude.
The fact that you're repeating it means he got under your skin, and is getting what he wants. Ignore the asshole.