Prof. Ann Althouse on Sound-and-Fury-Gate

See here. I am no expert at all on Literature—though I read a lot, it's distinctly low-brow—but what she says (and not just about the verifiable sourcing) rings true to me.

Comments

[LawTalkingGuy]

It's often a good idea to assume that something from one author is a Shakespeare reference, and then check.

It's like that quip from Dorothy Parker about Oscar Wilde:

"If, with the literate, I am
Impelled to try an epigram,
I never seek to take the credit;
We all assume that Oscar said it."

[Goju]

Mark Twain is another person to whom a great many quotes are incorrectly attributed. Will Rogers still another.

[StellaLink_the dog]

Yogi Berra, who claimed he didn't say half the things he said.

[Ridgeway]

I prefer her quip that "if all the girls at the Yale prom were laid from end to end, no one would be the least surprised."

[Formerly Known as Stash]

Well, if you are going to go "Algonquin Table" my favorite was Oscar Levant's "I knew Doris Day before she was a virgin."

[Sarcastr0]

Any Shakespeare that didn't make it into the title of a Star Trek episode isn't worth knowing.

[LawTalkingGuy]

TBF "All our yesterdays" is from the same soliloquy.

[Formerly Known as Stash]

Well, I would agree is you add all other Science Fiction/Fantasy to Star Trek:

What's in a Name?, Isaac Asimov
Something Wicked this Way Comes, Ray Bradbury
Double, Double, John Brunner
The Evil That Men Do, John Brunner
Time Out of Joint, Philip K. Dick
All My Sins Remembered, Joe Haldeman
Brave New World, Aldous Huxley
Mortal Engines, Stanisław Lem
Inconstant Moon, Larry Niven
Wyrd Sisters, Terry Pratchett
Tomorrow and Tomorrow, Charles Sheffield
Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow, Kurt Vonnegut
2 B R 0 2 B, Kurt Vonnegut
Where Late the Sweet Birds Sang, Kate Wilhelm
The Seeds of Time, John Wyndham

Won't even attempt crime fiction titles.

[Formerly Known as Stash]

"if" you add...

[Cal Cetín]

When I think of Shakespeare, I remember Hamlet's eloquent words:

Why don't we do it in the road? Mm
Why don't we do it in the road? Ah
Why don't we do it in the road? Mm
Why don't we do it in the road? Mm
No one will be watching us
Why don't we do it in the road?

[Bob from Ohio]

Mitchell was an English Literature major at Penn.

"From Hell's heart, I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee." Melville or Khan Noonien Singh, who knows really.

[Snorkle]

I thought Althouse drank herself to death somewhere around 2015. Pleased to see she is as weirdly prickly and personally invested in trivia as always.

[Waterfowl/MDT]

I have been reading Althouse as long as she's been blogging (2004, IIRC), and this trope about her drinking like a fish surfaces again and again. Where's the evidence? Apart from one or two shots of her dining room table with (gasp!) wine in them, that is?

I also observe that the only people accused of being drunk in this way are women. HRC and Nancy Pelosi get this all the time. No man in recent years has. (Though Faulkner himself was very often drunk, of course.)

[bernard11]

Though Faulkner himself was very often drunk, of course.

I have heard it said that, shortly after winning the literature Nobel, Faulkner went by his local gas station, where he was well known.

One of the attendants told him, "Bill, after you got that prize, I decided to read The Sound and the Fury.(pause) Was you drunk when you wrote that?"

To which Faulkner answered, "A lot of the time."

[Ridgeway]

Not sure if anyone is interested in engaging seriously on this, but I cannot think of a single instance in which alcohol directly helped in the artistic/creative process.

Instead, I think what alcohol does is help certain talented/genius artists to function more generally, at least for a while. Basically, "geniuses" can only function at that level for a few hours a day, because they tend to have huge insecurities, which can only be addressed with alcohol (or other drugs).

Unfortunately, the creative/genius window keeps getting collapsed by the alcohol and the drugs, until it is gone.

[StellaLink_the dog]

I hear that sad_KrakenHead once said to the music teacher, "I love the Captain & Tennille song Muskrat Love" only to be told it was by America."

[Ridgeway]

"Well I tried to make it sunday, but I got so damn depressed
That I set my sights on monday and I got myself undressed"

But with Monday being a hioliday....

[The Turtle Dove]

For that same word 'rebellion' did divide
The action of their bodies from their souls;
And they did fight with queasiness, constrain'd,
As men drink potions; that their weapons only
Seem'd on our side, but for their spirits and souls
This word 'rebellion'—it had froze them up,
As fish are in a pond. But now the Bishop
Turns insurrection to religion.

2 Henry IV. The RSC's recent Henriad is still on Marquee, I think. Available with a free trial, and of great interest and potentially of great value to folks who make their living by writing about politics and humanity and such.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK8EqAjEElU

Mr. D.

[Ridgeway]

Up to a point, Lord Copper ... errr .... Ms. Mitchell.

[LawTalkingGuy]

It was indeed Macbeth. A speech on the futility and meaningless of everything as Malcolm/Macduff/Seward move Birnam Wood to Dunsinane to remove him from power.

[bernard11]

Bob Dylan, I think. No?

[Noscitur a sociis]

For anybody who doesn’t want to click through the links:

Blue check mark liberal says Ted Cruz’s speech during impeachment time waste was “sound and fury, signifying nothing” and attributes it to Faukner.

Not quite.

Ted Cruz said that the Democrats' speeches were reminiscent of Shakespeare, in that they were "full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

Andrea Mitchell of NBC News then tweeted to "correct" Cruz by saying the quote came from Faulkner, not Shakespeare, and Washington Post columnist Jennifer Rubin responded to agree (I think), noting a bit cryptically that "Now that's and it says volumes about his lack of soul. That's Any Thinking Person."

[Dr. Ed 2]

I believe the blue check mark leftist was an English major in college.

[LawTalkingGuy]

Dylan is such a major source for covers that often became more popular than his version, there is a whole Wikipedia page on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artists_who_have_covered_Bob_Dylan_songs

[bernard11]

I never quite understood the disdain shown to covers.

I mean, some people are good singers and bad songwriters, and vice versa. Comparative advantage, anyone?

[KHP54]

Indeed.

There may be some times when the roles of composer, arranger, and performer all combine wonderfully in one person. But why we should think there is some special authenticity when this happens is completely beyond me.

[LawTalkingGuy]

Even when the original is a good great songwriter and performer, I think covers are great because everyone has different styles that will bring something new to it.

[TW]

Agreed and sometimes there's just another artist who does a cover version that brings something new to the song. Example: the Mavericks did a cover to Motley Crue's "Dr. Feelgood" that gives it a Latin flavor that really makes the song pop.

[Kazinski]

Dylan never minded people covering his songs, he probably made 10x more from the Byrd's covering Tambourine Man, or Hendrix covering All Along The Watchtower than he made from his own recordings.

[Waterfowl/MDT]

I only listen to covers. But, then, my music is practically all classical.

[bernard11]

Reminds me of the old joke about the man who read Shakespeare and proclaimed himself unimpressed:

"All the guy did was take a bunch of well-known cliches and string them together."

[TW]

Pro-tip: this is one of those situations where before posting how someone else got something wrong, it's best to first double check (e.g. Google) to make sure you're not the one who got it wrong 😉

[Brett Bellmore]

I just hate it when some new and inferior cover of a good old song stops the original from being played on the radio. Like "Killing me softly"; I positively hate the Roberta Flack version

[Voize of Reazon]

Joe Cocker did this to the great and to the obscure. Most people don't even know that Feelin' Alright was a Traffic song

[Don Nico]

Compare "Crazy" as sung by Patsy Klein with the recording by the songwriter, WIllie Nelson. The two are very different. Both are good.

[Bored Lawyer]

You could make the same joke about the Bible.

[David Nieporent]

I've heard the same joke about the movie Casablanca.

[Voize of Reazon]

There is a story attached to that song. Willie Nelson had recorded himself singing Crazy in order to shop it around, and after hearing that recording Patsy Cline spent a day in the studio trying to follow his lead and being unhappy with the result.
After sleeping on it she came in the next morning and announced she wanted to try it in her style, with that big no-holds-barred voice of hers, and after one take that was the one they released.

[Brett Bellmore]

Well, I feel a bit embarrassed; The Flack version is fine, it's the Fugees version that's hideous. Had them mixed up for a minute.

[TwelveInchPianist]

"...noting a bit cryptically that “Now that’s and it says volumes about his lack of soul. That’s Any Thinking Person.”

You are a generous man, sir.

[Formerly Known as Stash]

Reminds me of Paul Simon's:
"... when you say Dylan
He thinks you're talking about Dylan Thomas
Whoever he was
The man ain't got no culture..."

[LawTalkingGuy]

A huge chunk of the Peter, Paul, and Mary repertoire were Dylan covers.

[Ridgeway]

I believe he intentionally wrote songs for other artists -- like those Byrds songs.

[StellaLink_the dog]

"Presumed mistakes?"

1. You didn't understand that Cruz made the original reference to the Shakespeare quote. You screwed it up from the start.

2. You attributed a Dylan song to the Beatles.

3. You attributed your screw-up to your music teacher.

As Stormy Daniels is alleged to have said, "'tis better to be right than first."

[Don Nico]

Thanks for the reply.
A. I apologize for misspelling Ms Cline's name.
B. I've seen that story in the Ken Burns film about Country Music

Cline's recording is superb, no question. It became a trademark fo hers. But Willie's is ...well Willie with an edge that is not in the Cline rendition. They are both worth listenig to.

[Brett Bellmore]

Ran into somebody making that complaint of Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress". So many SF cliches!

[Ridgeway]

If Mitchell had said that, this would have blown over.

Personally, I like both versions of KMS

[bernard11]

I was gonna say.

[Ridgeway]

Five o'clock may have come a little early for Ms. Rubin.

[Ridgeway]

One of the stream-of-consciousness narrators in SatF was an "idiot" in the old-fashioned sense of the word -- "mentally challenged" today, but it does not scan quite right.

[Ridgeway]

I figured M-K was joking with the KoHD reference.

But if he wanted to reference some great and original songs GnR songs, he should have gone for Live and Let Die or Mama Kin.

[Ridgeway]

Sometimes the cover is better than the original. Motley Crue's version of Smokin in the Boys Room is a lot better than Brownsville Station's.

[Goju]

Cream's cover of Robert Johnson's "Crossroad" took it in a whole new direction.

[StellaLink_the dog]

I thought it was a joke at first, too. And, I thought it was funny.

[mulched]

Roberta Flack was covering Killing Me Softly, originally written and performed by Lori Lieberman. Flack's is still the best IMHO.

[mulched]

Sorry, was just originally recorded by Lieberman. Written by someone else. Proving the point at the top of this thread that writing and performing don't have to go together.

[Waterfowl/MDT]

Apart from TANSTAAFL, I can't think of any cliches in that book.

[bernard11]

Sarcastic, I hope.

[Sarcastr0]

Never fear, I've read them all and have Macbeth on my bookshelf.

[Leo Marvin]

Cocker was an amazing singer and an antisemite. I overheard him railing about "fucking Jews" in the NY Bar (Mickell's) where his backup band at the time had a regular gig, shortly before Billy Joel took the stage and did a better Cocker than Cocker. (The linked recording is about 30 years after the night in question.)