Can You Trust Wikipedia?
Wikipedia shapes our perception of reality today more than ever before because it informs the large language models like ChatGPT. But can we really trust it?
HD DownloadWhom can you trust?
Trust in institutions is at an all-time low. Trust in the media has collapsed.
"Meanwhile, during that same 25-year period, Wikipedia has gone from being kind of a joke to one of the few things people trust," says Wikipedia founder Jimmy Wales, whose new book The Seven Rules of Trust: A Blueprint for Building Things That Last shares lessons he learned about building trust while creating the world's largest crowdsourced encyclopedia.
He's right that many of us turn to Wikipedia as one of the last trusted sources for information online.
But can we really trust it?
Wikipedia shapes our perception of reality today more than ever before because it informs the large language models like ChatGPT that we increasingly turn to for answers. Wikipedia pops up as an authoritative source at the top of Google searches and under YouTube videos on controversial topics.
But Elon Musk calls Wikipedia an "extension of legacy media propaganda," recently launching an AI-based competitor called Grokipedia.
"Wikipedia has come to be dominated by the Left," says Wikipedia co-founder Larry Sanger, who compares it to the Catholic Church before the Reformation. He posted Nine Theses to his Wikipedia user page in the spirit of Martin Luther. Wikipedia became "the voice of the establishment. It's just that the establishment itself is working behind the scenes."
Wales tells Reason, "This idea that we've been taken over by woke activists just doesn't really track" and the notion that nefarious forces are manipulating Wikipedia behind the scenes is "absolute fucking nonsense."
Welcome to the Wiki Wars.
The most controversial Wikipedia page might be the one belonging to Donald John Trump.
He's described as an "American politician, media personality, and businessman who is the 47th president of the United States." Biographical details include his time as a real estate developer, reality show host, and his 2016 presidential victory over Hillary Clinton. So far, no disagreements.
But the first policy mentioned is a travel ban against seven Muslim-majority countries, expanding the border wall, family separations, rolling back environmental and business regulations, downplaying the severity of the COVID-19 pandemic, refusing to concede the 2020 election, and getting impeached. Then comes a recounting of his legal battles, his second term involving "mass layoffs of federal workers," "targeting of political opponents," the "revers[al] of pro-diversity policies," and "persecution of transgender people."
The final paragraph concludes that "many of his comments and actions have been characterized as racist or misogynistic" and that "he has made many false or misleading statements during his campaigns and presidency, to a degree unprecedented in American politics." It also states that his actions "have been described as authoritarian" and "historians ranked him as one of the worst presidents in American history."
Tell us how you really feel, Wikipedians.
"In order to be neutral, it should be impossible for a well-informed reader to tell whether, or what position the writers of the article take on controversial questions that are raised in the article," says Sanger, critiquing what he sees as the site's mission drift.
But Wales defends the Trump article, saying, "If you get a negative view of Donald Trump from reading it, that's not our fault."
Former Wikipedia editor Betty Wills says her experience with Wikipedia changed "quite noticeably" after Trump came on the political scene in 2015. Wills began editing Wikipedia under the username Atsme in 2011. A self-described political centrist, she started contributing to the site by editing a page about the alligator gar, drawing on her expertise in producing a documentary on the topic for PBS. She also weighed in on pain management, pit bulls, and the Taj Mahal, once earning an "Editor of the Week" award for being "one of the best contributors to Wikipedia."
Then Trump ran for president.
"I was doing well until I got involved in politics," says Wills.
She says the editors on Trump's page were constantly trying to insert that he was a "liar, racist, that he had a mental condition" in his Wikipedia page. One argument was over whether Wikipedia should assert that Trump referred to immigrants from Haiti and El Salvador as coming from "shithole" countries. Wills wanted to note that Sens. Tom Cotton (R–Ark.) and David Perdue (R–Ga.) were in the room and denied hearing the president say the phrase.
Another Wikipedia editor who goes by Mr. X overruled her on the grounds that "most (reliable) sources factually state that the comment was made."
Another argument erupted over a Wikipedia page article titled "Racial Views of Donald Trump," which Wills and others wanted to change to "Accusations of Racism against Donald Trump."
"I wanted it to be objective and neutral," says Wills.
"Absolutely not," said Mr. X on the article's talk page, shooting down the title change. "This article is not about accusations; it's about Trump's 45 year documented history of racially-provocative remarks….This is not creative writing where we try to turn the tables and make the so called accusers look like the bad guys."
"Mr X., we're not supposed to make anyone look like the 'bad guys'…including Trump," replied Wills.
A few weeks later, Mr. X brought an arbitration case against Wills, accusing her of violating, among other rules, Wikipedia's "gaslighting" policy by "repeatedly discrediting reliable sources; claiming bias and propaganda in reliable sources."
Wills says that Mr. X created the "gaslighting" policy and altered it to target her.
"He added gaslighting, changed it around to make it fit me, OK. I wasn't gaslighting anybody. All I was doing was telling the truth," says Wills.
Wikipedia banned Wills from editing the Trump page.
The conflict partly revolved around what constitutes a "reliable source," which Wikipedia lists in color-coded fashion on its "perennial sources" page, also created by Mr. X. Reason would have reached out to him for comment, but Mr. X, whose identity is secret, announced he was taking a break from Wikipedia in 2020, returned in 2022 to thank his well-wishers, and has since disappeared.
Sources like the Associated Press, Reuters, and Reason are marked green as "generally reliable in its areas of expertise." Publications marked yellow, like Buzzfeed, Cosmopolitan, and The Daily Beast, have no consensus on reliability. Red sources like the Daily Caller, The Epoch Times, and The Federalist are considered "generally unreliable," while greyed out sources like Breitbart are blacklisted for alleged "persistent abuse," such as doxxing anonymous Wikipedia editors.
"The number of heavily restricted, I would simply use the word blacklisted sources on Wikipedia that are left wing, it's very small," says Sanger.
Daily Kos, Alternet, and Counterpunch are among the left-wing publications that Wikipedia editors approach with caution. But Sanger is right that far more right-wing sources are marked as questionable. Wales says this reflects the quality of available conservative media.
"The Right tends to have a few more low-quality sources out there," says Wales. "Maybe some right-wing billionaire funders should fund some quality media….I think that would be wonderful for the world, but that's not a Wikipedia problem."
But Sanger says Wikipedians feign naivete about the real cause of this imbalance.
"I don't think they're quite as naive as they're letting on. But they would have you believe that they think that there are objective facts that all responsible people agree upon, and they appear in the greenlit sources. And those other sources are uncontrovertibly bad sources. They are sources of misinformation. Basically, all epistemic virtue is on one side and there's none on the other."
At one point, Wikipedia banned Wills from editing all pages related to American politics. The ban was lifted, but soured by the experience, Wills launched Justapedia, where editors revise Wikipedia articles, aiming to live up to the site's motto, "where neutrality meets objective truth."
Justapedia's Trump page begins by describing his biographical details, similar to his Wikipedia entry. It summarizes his first term as having "delivered tax cuts, three Supreme Court Justices, and…[a] border wall." It notes his legal troubles, though mentions that House Republicans called his trials "politically motivated" and concludes that "he set a historic record as the first Republican in 20 years to win the popular vote…swept all seven swing states, and secured 312 electoral votes, surviving two assassination attempts."
Kamala Harris' entry notes in the second paragraph that her paternal grandfather was "a prominent slave owner," later says she "has been referred to by her opposition as 'an elitist radical,'" and concludes that she's "received substantial criticism" for her role as border czar "in light of 10 million undocumented immigrants entering the U.S." during her tenure. None of these details appear on Harris' Wikipedia page, which describes her as "the first female, first African American, and first Asian American U.S. vice president, and the highest-ranking female and Asian American official in U.S. history."
Is it possible to achieve real neutrality and objectivity in a digital landscape flooded with conflicting information and opinion? Or is the best we can hope for a conservative-flavored Wikipedia clone? Sanger says the ideal online encyclopedia should include diverse perspectives and let readers decide.
He says Wikipedia's original neutrality policy was meant to encourage editors to present multiple points of view about a controversy without unduly tilting the scale.
For example, Sanger's Wikipedia page says his "status as co-founder has been questioned by [Wikipedia's other co-founder Jimmy] Wales, but is generally accepted." This notes the majority opinion but adds a notable dissenting view.
Sanger, who was laid off in 2002, less than a year after Wikipedia's launch, has criticized the site for years and tried several times to launch competitors.
"In the early days, there was a lot of just plain disrespect for experts who would come by. And that bothered me," says Sanger, "Jimmy Wales, he failed to rein these people in, and he allowed those people to drive off a lot of really good editors."
Sanger says that over the years, Wikipedia's most aggressive and ideological editors worked their way up the ladder.
"The inmates took over the asylum, and they're still in charge," says Sanger. "Wikipedia has come to be dominated by the Left and, generally speaking, people who are, for whatever reason, interested in a particular topic."
Much of that interest among unpaid editors is sparked by a genuine commitment to accuracy and advancing knowledge, but Wikipedia is in a constant battle with vested interests, including P.R. firms revamping client pages and state actors pushing a political agenda.
The Taiwan page is under constant siege, and a vote had to be taken on whether to call it a country before locking that part of the page. Wikimedia Foundation banned seven members of the Chinese Mainland Wikipedia group in 2021, with a V.P. announcing that "community 'capture' is a real and present threat."
In 2024, a pro-Palestine group coordinating over Discord to mass edit pages related to the Israel-Palestine conflict was exposed in a 244-page dossier compiled by the Jewish Journal.
Wikipedia's arbitration committee eventually sanctioned three of the editors affiliated with the Discord server.
American political activists are also fighting an ideological information war in the bowels of Wikipedia talk pages, with many accounts spending full work days editing Wikipedia pages. According to Sanger, so too are U.S. intelligence agencies.
"One of the main things that intelligence is supposed to be about these days is the massaging of public opinion. They would be falling down on the job if they weren't doing that with respect to Wikipedia. That's just low hanging fruit," says Sanger.
In 2007, a California Institute of Technology grad student named Virgil Griffith built a tool called WikiScanner to trace the I.P. addresses of Wikipedia editors. He found addresses linked to weapons manufacturers, a voting machine company, both major political parties, the House of Representatives, and the CIA.
Since then, Wikipedia has strengthened its conflict-of-interest policies around editing and deployed filters to better block coordinated editing. But the site also began shielding I.P. addresses to protect the anonymity of its editors.
"I think we would be foolish to think it isn't still happening all the time at some level," says Sanger.
But Wales says that's ridiculous.
"I think that it's quite easy for people to imagine that Wikipedia is under assault from dark webs of mysterious operatives, and it's fucking nonsense," says Wales. "I know the Wikipedians. I mean, they're a bunch of geeks."
Wales says that while bad actors try to manipulate entries "around the edges," that it's highly inefficient and "not a very useful thing for people to invest in" because of the time and effort it takes to convince other editors to accept the edits.
But some in the U.S. government think Wikipedia has become a national security issue.
The Department of Justice sent Wikimedia Foundation a letter in April 2025 threatening to revoke their tax-exempt status and alleging that the site is "allowing foreign actors to manipulate information and spread propaganda to the American public."
The British government is also attempting to regulate Wikipedia. A U.K. law could force all Wikipedia editors to relinquish their anonymity in the name of child safety. The government wants editors to provide ID so that minors working on Wikipedia don't come into contact with anonymous adults.
Sanger agrees with the Wikimedia board, which has sued the U.K. over its law, that anonymity is vital for rank-and-file editors.
"People need to be free to share what they know without negative consequences from the authorities," says Sanger.
The reforms Sanger is proposing don't require the heavy hand of the government. But they might require a special session from the Wikimedia board, which is why Sanger is calling for the Wikimedia Foundation to have a "constitutional convention" to implement some structural changes to the editorial process.
One of Sanger's proposals to reform Wikipedia is to de-anonymize the site's most influential editors, which he calls the "power 62," so the public can know who is making the decisions to check and ban I.P. addresses or topic-ban editors like Wills.
"That's probably his worst idea and it doesn't address any problem that we actually have," says Wales. "We don't see the people with the most power egregiously violating the rules of Wikipedia with their power.…We live in a very dangerous world, and we have editors who are heroes who are editing Wikipedia in authoritarian countries."
But Sanger says knowing the identities of the powerful editors would make it easier for Wikipedia to fight against paid, coordinated shadow campaigns, and it would make the project more transparent. He also wants to abolish decision making by "consensus," which he calls an "institutional fiction" that "hides legitimate dissent under a false veneer of unanimity."
"It's three wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner," Wills says, describing her experience with Wikipedia's consensus process.
One of Sanger's most radical proposals is to allow competing Wikipedia articles instead of seeking what he says is a false consensus on a single definitive entry. For example, instead of fighting covert Chinese state actors, Wikipedia might invite Chinese nationalists to openly write an article about Taiwan or religious scholars to write an article about Yahweh, the God of the Bible that Wikipedia describes as "an ancient Semitic deity of weather and war"—a characterization Sanger, a recent convert to Christianity, has called offensive and at odds with the views of many modern religious scholars.
Sanger says such problems arise because Wikipedia only permits the "GASP" framework: Globalist, Academic, Secular, and Progressive.
"I don't think there's anything wrong with being academic. As a Ph.D. philosopher, I'm all for it," says Sanger. "It's just that in today's academy, there are a lot of reasonable positions that simply are not considered, or they're such minority positions. The kind of people who edit Wikipedia will pretend that they're not even present in the academy at all."
The case for a more pluralistic Wikipedia is one of epistemic humility—that we should acknowledge the limits of not only what we know, but what we can know. But Wales says competing articles are a "terrible idea" that Wikipedia will never adopt.
"It's really important that we all meet in one article, and that we have that discourse, and we try really hard to achieve neutrality," says Wales.
Wales concedes that Wikipedia could do better on that front. Recently, both Sanger and Wales publicly critiqued an article entitled "Gaza genocide," defining it as "the ongoing, intentional, and systematic destruction of the Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip carried out by Israel." Wales wrote that "this article fails to meet our high standards and needs immediate attention" and that "there is much more work to do." He's currently leading a neutral point-of-view working group within Wikipedia.
"It would be a mistake for Wikipedia to be complacent about any of these issues," says Wales.
Whether or not Wikipedia implements any of Sanger's suggested reforms, large language models are already forcing change.
While Wikipedia still draws more than 100 million unique visits a day, its human pageviews have declined as more people turn to chatbots like ChatGPT and Grok for answers.
The Trump page on Elon Musk's AI-generated encyclopedia Grokipedia is more neutral than you'll find on either Wikipedia or Justapedia, highlighting Trump's success as the host of The Apprentice alongside his multiple bankruptcies, listing both his major policy achievements and controversies, and concluding with a description of his 2024 win and early raft of executive orders.
But Wales is concerned that Grokipedia, which allows human feedback on its articles, might ultimately be programmed to reflect the biases of its creator.
"I'm not sure to what extent the project trying to support Elon's view of world, and that, frankly, isn't really gonna be neutral. But we'll see, I mean, I think it's too early to say," says Wales.
Sanger says there are other dangers in leaning too much on AI to generate the definitive record of human affairs.
"We do not want to offload the task of summarizing what we think we know to a machine," says Sanger. "So there's two different purposes of an encyclopedia. One is for people to go and learn the basics about a topic or look up information about the topic, but then the other is to actually authoritatively record what is known or believed to be the case in various fields. It would lack credibility, and it would ultimately draw conclusions that human beings may not be comfortable with. It's a very, very sensitive issue, ultimately, how you wordsmith and which facts you want to present as being facts."
Wikipedia's decentralized and open-source nature is also its greatest source of strength and resilience. As Wales points out, it might be the only publication that has a lengthy, evolving article documenting criticisms of itself.
"Wikipedia is a living thing that people can come and engage and like enter that dialog and enter that conversation. And any publication that doesn't allow for reader feedback in the form of actually getting involved, I just see a limitation there," says Wales.
Sanger says it might not take that many people to change Wikipedia for the better from within.
Wikipedia publishes all its user statistics, which reveal that while there are almost 50 million active users, there are only 822 administrators, 49 Checkusers who can track I.P. addresses, and only 16 people, called bureaucrats, with the power to knight new administrators.
"I do think that it's very important that we get involved, at least for a season, you know?" says Sanger. "Give it the old college try and see if we can, collectively, from the bottom up, change the nature of Wikipedia."
Sanger is right: It's important to fight for fair and accurate information on the internet.
Though Wikipedia, like every encyclopedia, has shortcomings and biases, we'll never fully agree on what's true. There will always be contested ground, although John Stuart Mill wrote in his defense of the marketplace of ideas that the goal is still to discover shared truths and that "the well-being of mankind may almost be measured by the number and gravity of the truths which have reached the point of being uncontested."
Even so, Wikipedia is one of the great achievements of the free and open internet, and a huge improvement on the Encyclopedia Britannica-era, in which all of our information was filtered through a central authority that nobody could challenge. Despite all the controversy over Wikipedia, nobody is saying we should go back to that world.
Not long ago, the idea that you could trust anything written in a decentralized online encyclopedia seemed totally outlandish. Stephen Colbert famously mocked Wikipedia in 2006, calling it "the encyclopedia where you can be an authority even if you don't know what the hell you're talking about" and joking that reality would be replaced with "Wikiality."
He encouraged his viewers to mass edit the online encyclopedia to claim that the elephant population had tripled in six months and that George Washington didn't have slaves. It worked for a moment. And then…it didn't.
"What was interesting about that, it is kind of a good case of how robust Wikipedia really can be," says Wales. "The page was locked within seconds because, as I told him later, Wikipedians also watch The Colbert Report."
When Colbert complained of "Wikiality," what he was really lamenting was the demise of the informational gatekeepers that once dominated mass media. But those days are finished.
Dissent is cheaper and easier than ever in the digital age, and it's better to harness it for good than to squash it for the illusion of consensus.
Systems that best approximate a marketplace of ideas and insulate themselves from capture or abuse are the ones that will bring us closer to the truth. That might be Wikipedia, or Grokipedia, or some new ecosystem of competing encyclopedias.
Fact finding in the AI-infused digital age is bound to be a messy, confusing, and contentious process, but grasping our way towards the truth always has been.
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No.
I was researching black slave ownership and found John Casor.
At this time (1665), there were only about 300 people of African origin living in the Virginia Colony, about 1% of an estimated population of 30,000. The first group of 20 or so Africans were brought to Jamestown in 1619 as indentured servants. After working out their contracts for passage money to Virginia and completing their indenture, each was granted 50 acres (20 ha) of land (headrights). This enabled them to raise their own tobacco or other crops.
In one of the earliest freedom suits, Casor argued that he was an indentured servant who had been forced by Anthony Johnson, a free black, to serve past his term; he was freed and went to work for Robert Parker as an indentured servant. Johnson sued Parker for Casor's services. In ordering Casor returned to his master, Johnson, for life, the court both declared Casor a slave and sustained the right of free blacks to own slaves.
Rewriting history. Wikipedia style
I suspect this is an attempt to conflate actual slavery, by force, with a contract of indenture, voluntarily entered into for a period of time.
This will help blur the blatant lie of slaves being brought to Jamestown in 1619, when the fact is that they were indentured servants who sold their indenture to pay the passage to the new world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Casor
Interesting note concerning Wikipedia;
This is the text I captured April 15th.
At this time (1665), there were only about 300 people of African origin living in the Virginia Colony, about 1% of an estimated population of 30,000. The first group of 20 or so Africans were brought to Jamestown in 1619 as indentured servants. After working out their contracts for passage money to Virginia and completing their indenture, each was granted 50 acres (20 ha) of land (headrights). This enabled them to raise their own tobacco or other crops.
This is how it now reads
At this time, there were only about 300 people of African origin living in the Virginia Colony, about 1% of an estimated population of 30,000. The first group of 20 or so Africans were brought to Point Comfort in 1619 as enslaved Africans. After working between 15 and 30 years, most were granted their freedom to purchase land and start their own homestead.
(this bit has been added)
Although most historians believe slavery, as an institution, developed much later, they differ on the exact status of their servitude before slavery was established, as well as differing over the date when this took place. The colonial charter entitled English subjects and their children the rights of the common law, but people of other nations were considered foreigners or aliens outside the common law. At the time, the colony had no provision for naturalizing foreigners.
Welcome to the revolution!
A bit more – – – –
The changes were made on October 29, 2020:
Major restatements were from ‘indentured servant’ to ‘enslaved African’, from ‘Jamestown’ to ‘Point Comfort’ (perhaps to avoid searches including Jamestown? Point Comfort is 40 miles downriver from Jamestown), from ‘granted land’ to ‘granted their freedom to purchase land’ (after serving an indenture, they were free by law, and no granting of the freedom to purchase was needed).
Here is the link to the edit page
https://en.wikipedia.org/ w/index.php?title=John_Casor &diff=next&oldid=979332193
Last time I checked - the Easter Island article still highlighted the mostly debunked theory that they collapsed due to environmental collapse just because they used trees to move the stones. Hard to tell if these things just get stuck in the past because nobody bothers to update them or if there is willful intent to keep them wrong. Probably a mix of both.
I often come across articles with statements like: X company is expected to release Y product in 2014…
It isn't at all uncommon to see statements that are clearly outdated, that should never have been written that way in the first place.
No.
This has been known for a decade at this point.
At least. Wikipedia has never been something to cite if you need to do official research. It is definitely not trustworthy on any topic that is the least bit controversial, because the editing will come to be dominated by partisans of one side in the controversy. And in political or social controversies, it is the Left that generally polices the other side's interpretation off the platform.
No grasshopper, you cannot.
Is it on the internet? Yes? Then the answer is "No." Potentially plausible starting point is the best you can do.
I'll trust the National Enquirer over Wikipedia because they at least get something right once in a while.
Wikipedia - more reliable than reddit.
https://honestreporting.com/who-edits-the-truth-wikipedia-reddit-and-the-battle-for-reality/
Often the same overlap of control groups.
What does this have to do with tariffs?
Wikipedia = Co-opted
Snopes = Co-opted
Politifact = Co-opted
Factcheck = Co-opted
CATO = Co-opted
ACLU = Co-opted
FIRE = Co-opted
Reason = Co-opted
I'm not listing the NYT, Atlantic, NPR, PBS, etc. because they have always been Leftist. Remember, it was only a short time ago that Twitter users were screaming that Twitter was the fairest in all the land!
It's dire online, reality however keeps chuggin' away.
But can we really trust it?
No, while Nick Gillespie was doing dick-sucking, back-slapping softball interviews with Jimmy Wales, real journalists were looking into the actual background practices of WikiPedia, interviewing editors and the other founder of Wikipedia, learning how editing works, how certain viewpoints have been literally locked out of Wikipedia, how the incestuous relationships between wikipedia and operations like Google, Media Matters and the Global Censorship Industrial complex all work to make sure Wikipedia is the #1 hit on any google search AND that hit carries the preferred narratives on everything from Covid, to elections to Trump. And all this investigation was happening literally years ago, even before Reason found itself as a featured member of the Global DisInfo index and labeled far, far, far right.
And all you guys (Gillespie) could muster was, "Man, this wikipedia thing is like far out, man!"
No.
George Perry Floyd Jr. (October 14, 1973 – May 25, 2020) was an African American man who was murdered by a white police officer in Minneapolis, Minnesota, during an arrest made after a store clerk suspected Floyd had used a counterfeit twenty-dollar bill, on May 25, 2020.[2]
Unless there is a non-wikipedia article on how you can murder somebody by voluntary OD.
And he had used a counterfeit $20. He had already been turned away once for trying to use it. The clerk who accepted it was a teenager trying to avoid confrontation and just accepted it and called it in. There are like six witnesses, including people who knew or were friends of Floyd's who've made statements about the bill. Whatever your libertarian sensibilities one way or the other, counterfeiting is a no-shit Federal crime and they didn't take him to the ground and hold him down because missed pilates class and when they showed up he held his hands out to be cuffed and said, "Alright, you caught me."
Jimmy Wales, he failed to rein these people in, and he allowed those people to drive off a lot of really good editors."
Sanger says that over the years, Wikipedia's most aggressive and ideological editors worked their way up the ladder.
"The inmates took over the asylum, and they're still in charge," says Sanger. "Wikipedia has come to be dominated by the Left and, generally speaking, people who are, for whatever reason, interested in a particular topic."
To summarize leftists took over Wikipedia the same way they took over academia, media, and the NGO system. This highlights the fundamental difference between the left an right. Leftists prioritize politics over all else and live their lives accordingly. The want to work in political institutions and drive them to the left. People on the right prioritize other interests and prefer that politics remain a small part of life. This imbalance means the left will always have disproportionate influence, but now that they have control of effectively all our institutions the impact is greatly magnified. We're marching toward the point at which the country is run according to the preferences of the furthest left 5%.
"Conservatives want different things depending on where they're from. The French conservative likely wants something different from the Spanish conservative, who wants something different than the British conservative... the left, on the other hand, tends to want the same thing, at the same time and in the same order, everywhere, all the time."
Except, that's not true, either. The commenter "John" here observed that what the "left" is about is the continual overturning of whatever the current order is, wherever it is...which is always changing due to whatever success they have. By intention if not design, they never get to where they want.
Yes, these editing wars are won by whoever has, or devotes, the most time for them. In some cases it's a retired fanatic about a subject, but in other cases it's a "left" academic or pseudo-academic who can justify it as work.
I got into an editing war briefly with Sharon Presley, who is very proprietary about what she remembers about the founding of Laissez Faire Books, Ralph Fucetola's recollection (which I trust) to the contrary. I conceded the war to her, because who wants to devote much time to such an uncreative endeavor?
Because of this phenomenon (i.e. who cares most to devote time), "We're marching toward the point at which the country is run according to the preferences of the furthest left 5%." This was observed by the authors of a book 40 years ago about the preferred mode of governance of such people: a type of local anarchism like town meetings, wherein consensus rules, but consensus is reached only when everyone goes home after enough hours that only the fanatics of the "left" are left.
You can't trust Wikipedia on controversial subjects. However, that it generally requires sourcing means you can at least check the original source. Wikipedia should never be regarded as a primary source, but that it provides references to primary sources already puts it above most other secondary sources.
FWIW this was my first and only new Wikipedia article, and I was delighted with how other contributors improved upon it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunslinger_effect
Years before Wiki was controversial, various academics were very critical of Wikipedias non-controversial articles on various topics of history, science and the like, because of eye-popping, jaw-dropping omissions. And again, on really mundane stuff that is completely non-controversial-- something like noting that there is a dispute among historians on Historical Figure X's actual place of birth etc.
When wikipedia first came out, I noted that Wikipedia would NOT drift towards 'truth' due to the 'wisdom of crowds' but it would both drift towards and away from truth with equal velocity. Wikipedia realized this and immediately starting putting in dogmatic controls, locking articles, elevating 'editors' to special status etc.
because of eye-popping, jaw-dropping omissions.
Though Wikipedia did have the built-in remedy of being able to edit the article to include that previously-omitted material.
I think that the general requirement for providing sources, while it can be abused, is one of its great strengths.
No, actually Wikipedia wants references to secondary sources, not the horse's mouth.
Glad you have transcripts though there should be some hint re how to get to those.
Wiki as implemented has certainly not turned into a Hayekian knowledge source. The crowdsourcing works a bit better than the panel of curated experts. But still the point of the Hayek model is that knowledge CANNOT be gathered in one place. Not wikipedia and not legacy media and not EncyBrittanica. the knowledge of the circumstances of which we must make use never exists in concentrated or integrated form but solely as the dispersed bits of incomplete and frequently contradictory knowledge which all the separate individuals possess.
The crowdsourcing is a good way of gathering the 'dispersed bits' but there is no way of resolving the 'frequently contradictory'. Trying to resolve the contradictory is the source of the time waste and conflict. Presenting the contradictory - and letting the reader resolve it - is the only possible solution.
The best way to tell if a website or a media site has been captured, or is trying to spin you is to find a subject where you have personal knowledge of the events or the subject matter, and compare what is written in the article to what you know. Especially if the subject matter is controversial (I look at articles about nuclear energy).
I think you will invariably find something in an article from Wiki , or the MSM that has been spun, or twisted, or important information has been left out, or irrelavant material has been included to cloud the issue. The only things you can accept at face value in the MSM is who won the big game last night. In Wiki, the only things you can accept at face value are facts like the atomic number of hydrogen, which is 1.
Do this a couple of times and you will come to the conclusion that they really don't know anything about the stuff that YOU really know about, so why should you believe anything else that they say?
I suspect the most trustworthy thing about wiki will come from someone who researches the talk pages and the conflicts among editors and the dynamic of creating consensus and conformity. Not many instances in history of a group of independent people self-organizing into an association which focuses on a variety of issues and then turns that association into a pretty ossified cliquish institution of power. Even fewer instances where there's an audit trail that provides the breadcrumbs of how that happened.
The worst problem with Wikipedia is built into its rules: direct knowledge by contributors is not allowed. The people you'd most trust to know the most about a subject aren't allowed to add the things they know unless they're quoting somebody else about them, and that source is allowed only because other people reference them too.
The idea of fact forums, wherein experts build a reputation by being trusted by the general public, but even more by being trusted by other experts, was supposed to be the idea of Quora among other sites. Quora took a while but was on its way to developing as a stable of experts, but then they succumbed to the adverse incentive of eye exposure (ultimately advertising) and of proliferating content for such exposure. ProCon.org was a good idea but hasn't really taken off. So it's not easy to get anywhere near an objective system that works for this, but on the other hand, Wikipedia's closing off of material from those most knowledgeable is extremely frustrating.
"Wales tells Reason, "This idea that we've been taken over by woke activists just doesn't really track" and the notion that nefarious forces are manipulating Wikipedia behind the scenes is "absolute fucking nonsense.""
None involved in Wiki are partisan hacks whom post media lies in place of facts? None? Seriously?
That is "absolute fucking nonsense."
People must review the sources and citations of the Wiki pages to confirm factual or fake news usually leftists or media bias being regurgitated.
Most wiki citations are WAPO or the NYTimes or BBC, The Atlantic, The Guardian or other known leftist fake news and media outlets controlled by the democrat party.