Is This Constitutional? Here's How Due Process Works
It appears many people are now eager to dispense with due process.
HD DownloadDue process is really having a moment, and the Founders are rolling in their graves.
The basic legal principle—that people have the right to challenge the evidence against them before the government takes away their liberty—is central to the Constitution. And yet, it has come under fire recently, after President Donald Trump's administration deported hundreds of immigrants it alleges are gang members to a prison in El Salvador.
It appears that many people are now eager to dispense with due process, or simply do not understand what it is or why it exists.
"The entire American media and left wing industrial complex has decided the most important issue today," said Vice President J.D. Vance last week, "is that the Trump admin deported an MS-13 gang member (and illegal alien)."
Vance was referring to Kilmar Abrego Garcia, whom the Trump administration illegally deported to El Salvador in violation of a court order—an action the government attributes to an "administration error." Abrego Garcia and many other men, most of them Venezuelan, were shipped to El Salvador's mega prison, Centro de Confinamiento del Terrorismo (CECOT). There, President Nayib Bukele has suspended civil liberties, including due process, allowing him to imprison people indefinitely without a fair trial.
Is it possible that some people sent to a Salvadoran prison were in a gang? It is. It is also possible some were not, which is precisely why we have due process: to test the integrity of the government's allegations. That is an American value, not a left-wing value.
"Did Rachel Morin get due process? Did Laken Riley get due process?" right-wing influencer Jack Posobiec inquired recently. "No one ever asks that."
Morin and Riley were murdered by immigrants, which is tragic. But Posobiec's question implies he doesn't understand what due process is at a basic level. By his logic, we should abolish the doctrine for anyone accused of bad acts, which is backward: The point of due process is to provide fairness to people accused of crimes, because the government doesn't always get it right. "Because we said so" isn't good enough.
OutKick founder Clay Travis noted that "if the president can't deport illegal immigrants then we have no border at all."
The president can, in fact, deport people. At issue is whether or not he can send them to a third-world prison, where they will be held without charge or conviction. These are two different things. And it isn't relevant that the people deported weren't U.S. citizens, because the Supreme Court has repeatedly confirmed that even immigrants suspected of being in the U.S. illegally are entitled to due process of law.
"I can't fully articulate this problem yet," former Libertarian Party chair Angela McArdle wrote, "but I think that libertarianism has been hijacked by radical empathy & that we don't fully understand the concept of a right to a fair trial and the presumption of innocence. Libertarians have elevated it over all other rights & factors."
The Founders made due process central to the Constitution not because they loved criminals, but because they understood that any system of justice will give people a chance to publicly challenge the government before it deprives them of their liberty indefinitely, as the government has done here. That should be important to anyone who cares about the Constitution and the rule of law. "Libertarians Who Believe the Government Is Perfect and Trustworthy" is not a coherent ideology.
If you love the Constitution, you have to love due process.
Photo Credits: Juan Carlos/ZUMAPRESS/Newscom; EL SALVADOR PRESIDENTIAL PRESS O/UPI/Newscom; AFP / GDA Photo Service/Newscom; Taylor Friehl on Unsplash; Randy Laybourne on Unsplash; Ben Moreland on Unsplash
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This issue is so 2 days ago.
Was 2 days ago when the Red Headed Libertarian was clowning on Billy? Because that was pretty fun.
Didn't see it despite following both. Josie is great at bouncing between a pithy mean girl and a fairly deep debater.
Genocidal Jews and their accomplices certainly have no respect for due process.
The seven satanic Noahide laws as traditionally enumerated in the Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin 56a-b and Tosefta Avodah Zarah
Not to worship idols.
Not to curse God.
Not to commit murder.
Not to commit adultery or sexual immorality.
Not to steal.
Not to eat flesh torn from a living animal.
To establish courts of justice.
I didn’t know the nation was founded on them, did YOU?
These bullshit satanic 7 “laws from a Jewish god” have been signed into law by every US president since 1991, and those laws demand the death penalty for breaking any one of them, including opposing any of the laws themselves.
For Jews and their accomplices, due process requires only the lowest bar of the statement of a single witness.
The Jewish religion is based on lying to people, so allowing Jews to influence anything is a recipe for anarchy, mass incarceration and executions.
This is the Kol Nidre text
“All vows, obligations, oaths, and anathemas [curses]which we may vow, or swear, or pledge, or whereby we may be bound, from this Day of Atonement until the next we do repent. May they be deemed absolved, forgiven, annulled, and void, and made of no effect: they shall not bind us nor have any power over us. The vows shall not be reckoned vows; the obligations shall not be obligations; nor the oaths be oaths.”
I’m so glad your institution allows you internet access.
I'm so glad he is on the retard leftists side.
It’s so obvious that you can’t refute the truth of what I’ve said.
Refuted.
Refuted.
Want to bet?
Refuted.
Fuck off and die, lying pile of Nazi shit.
Oh yeah. He's too stupid to be a Libertarian (the concepts are far too deep for him), and he loves central government control over ever facet of his life too much to give leftism up.
Refuted.
Refuted.
And everyone from Reason keeps getting it wrong. They refuse to address all the points that make their "due process" cries a moot point.
The actual requirements for illegal immigration and immigration courts disagree with your ignorance.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/8/235.3
Try not being ignorant.
(ii) No entitlement to hearings and appeals. Except as otherwise provided in this section, such alien is not entitled to a hearing before an immigration judge in proceedings conducted pursuant to section 240 of the Act, or to an appeal of the expedited removal order to the Board of Immigration Appeals.
"Oops!"
Indeed. There's the "due process of law".
Think Reason is trying to thwart "of law" by their own made-up "due process" banners.
If you peek at the rest of the msm and leftist media they are all hammering the same line. I wonder why Reason is doing the same.
“Morin and Riley were murdered by immigrants”
Nope. They were murdered by illegals.
Fuck Binion and his open borders Marxist bullshit.
"At issue is whether or not he can send them to a third-world prison, where they will be held without charge or conviction."
No, jackass, he can't, and he didn't. He deported an illegal immigrant to his native country in violation of a court order. The third-world prison is in that illegal immigrant's native third-world country where he was imprisoned according to that third-world country's due process.
Then why are non-Salvadorans (Venezuelans) held in that same prison in the same manner after they got off the same flight with the Salvadoran? "It's his country doing it" seems like a fig leaf.
So non-Salvadorans are immune to arrest in El Salvador?
Reason seems to think non Americans can’t be arrested in America.
Pluggo can travel to El Salvador with his favorite photographs to find out if, as a non-Salvadoran, he is immune to arrest there.
Actually that is the Trump Administration's argument against birthright citizenship -- that non-citizens are not "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. That would mean that they can't be arrested, prosecuted, imprisoned, or even given a traffic ticket.
Because their countries of origin refuse to take back their citizens?
The third-world prison is in that illegal immigrant's native third-world country where he was imprisoned according to that third-world country's due process.
If by "due process" you mean "Trump giving them millions of dollars," then yeah you've made a good point.
Are you drunk or retarded today? It’s getting harder to tell the difference.
“Wet brain “
I’m curious to see what imaging of Sarc’s brain would reveal. I’m sure it’s just a shrunken nugget by now.
Can’t it be both?
IANAL. But every time a lawyer expounds on the matter, they say that due process means the legal steps taken are in accord with laws and regulations passed by legislatures and interpreted by courts. Your version does not matter to courts.
This is correct.
So is this.
It appears that many people are now eager to dispense with due process, or simply do not understand what it is or why it exists.
A ton of people - including commenters here - and 'libertarian' 'thought' flunkies/fascists - have always been willing to dispense with due process. Only criminals need due process and only criminals benefit from it. Are you a criminal?
Murray Rothbard: Take Back the Streets: Crush Criminals. And by this I mean, of course, not “white collar criminals” or “inside traders” but violent street criminals – robbers, muggers, rapists, murderers. Cops must be unleashed, and allowed to administer instant punishment, subject of course to liability
under the laws or practices or whims of El Salvadorwhen they are in error.The definition of due process is not whatever you believe it is through ignorance.
Try educating yourself on the topic. Don't be like Billy.
Yes it is so! - jeff
Obama threatened to withhold funding from universities if they offered too much due process.
Oh well golly. That obviously means we have too much due process. Assuming whatever you wrote is either true or meaningful (no reason to believe either - or care)
We understand Obama was a constitution stomping wannabe autocrat that was abusing his power. It's the same for Trump. It's wrong in both cases.
Stuff your TDS up your ass.
This was great and Billy was great. You all should film these in phone aspect ratio and post them on Tiktok.
Billy has fans with those who get their news and learning from TikTok lol.
He has a lot of activist lefty followers on Twitter. It's mostly them and lgbt types commenting on his posts.
>>Due process is really having a moment
ya especially @Reason and I was hopeful your piece would explain not complain ... but here we are
Abrego Garcia had his due process in an immigration hearing which resulted in a deportation order.
Which had been suspended.
Due process is really having a moment, and the Founders are rolling in their graves.
Yes. They're gobsmacked at how many border jumping criminals we've allowed to fester in this nation and undermine the guarantees of the Constitution they promised to the American citizen.
That is an American value, not a left-wing value.
This is toxic virtue. It is NOT an American value to roll over and show our bellies for each and every single criminal illegal that makes it onto American soil, and do nothing but tie things up in litigation while they rape, kill, and otherwise exploit Americans and American values. Pretending like it is so that you can rationalize criminal illegal alienage is toxic virtue, plain and simple.
You don't want due process. You want them roaming the street to rape and kill and exploit. Why.
Why would you ever - ever - want such a thing?
Libertarians have elevated it over all other rights & factors.
No. Just, no. I might agree with you if it were limited to 5A concerns. But it's never just that. They do it with every single Amendment there is, stretching them out on purpose until they have no meaning or value.
They haven't elevated "the presumption innocence." That's the sheep-costume they're wearing. The reality is that there's a violent, destructive and evil wolf underneath, and its name is Anarchy.
THAT'S what they've elevated.
>>Why would you ever - ever - want such a thing?
is being paid for the opinions
TBF, I think Angela Mccardle was saying that libertarians have elevated “radical empathy” over everything else. But maybe I’m misreading it.
The Founding Fathers put no restrictions on immigration in either the Constitution or the law. In fact, there is nothing in the Constitution that explicitly gives the federal government the right to regulate immigration at all.
Is it possible that some people sent to a Salvadoran prison were in a gang? It is. It is also possible some were not, which is precisely why we have due process: to test the integrity of the government's allegations. That is an American value, not a left-wing value.
Wrong. If the left supports something, then that something is wrong. Doesn't matter what it is. That means that good Trump defenders must vehemently oppose due process because the left supports it. They have to. If you agree with the left on something then you agree with them on everything. So everything they say must be opposed. It also means that 5th and 14th Amendments are leftist. As well as the Founders. And the Constitution for that matter.
Do you ever tire of posting trolling strawman arguments?
You posted a quote from a comment and here I thought you might provide some insight onto your thoughts on the posted comment, or due process. Alas, you post a continuation of your same, tired trope with no real value and complete with an accusations with, what you perceive, is happening in the heads of others who are reading this article. Where have I heard similar complaints about this type of posting before? Hmmm.
As Will Hunting said to the Harvard dude. 'Do you have anything original you would like to add?'
What you support are the lies the left has filled its narrative with on what due process means. Nothing more.
The very same process you didn't extend to your conservative enemies.
If you support red flag laws, you don't support due process. If you support red flag laws and want due process for illegal immigrants, you are a hypocrite.
Democrats have no business attacking Trump over due process until they start putting forth bills to repeal red flag laws.
Great point. Democrats did it first. That makes them hypocrites, and them being hypocrites makes what Trump is doing ok. Whenever Trump does something despicable, all you've got to do is say Democrats did it first and BAM you've made what Trump is doing ok. Works every time.
“You can’t judge me for what I did before, I can judge you for it now though.”
Let's go another step with your logic.
Trump defenders oppose red flag laws because they deprive people of due process, yet you also support depriving persons accused of having no papers of due process.
Doesn't that make you Trump defenders hypocrites too?
Or does that only go one way.
It makes you a purveyor of strawman arguments and false equivalencies, Sarc.
You keep using the term due process as if it is static for all situations. It is not.
But nobody expects you to know what the fuck you're ever talking about.
And what about people like myself who oppose red flag laws and also support due process for everyone?
That's disagreeing with both sides. Is that even allowed?
Um, he can indeed deport them to their country of origin and if that country throws them in prison, that's on the country of origin.
Also, I don't need some vertical-id-having journlismist to teen-splain due process. Hell, you can listen to a real, no-shit trial lawyer explain it in autistic detail.
Sad
It is possible to argue that current immigration law is wrong from a Libertarian point of view. Those of us who are not lawyers sometimes argue for the ideal.
Yes, the Open Borders crowd want full blown jury trials and endless appeals as if a deportation order is the same as the Death Penalty.
We don’t have to judges, money, or time for that, so it’s just a way of wanting open borders with no recourse
The Eighth Amendment does provide a right to a jury trial in both civil and criminal matters.
And the Founding Fathers created a country with open borders. No restrictions on immigration at all for over a century.
Reason has clearly given up on arguing the actual required due process in immigration cases and simply articulates a parallel theoretical reality that they claim is "libertarian". That's fine but the dishonesty destroys any credibility they might have had. To be clear they are advocating for a soft coup by an unelected article 3 judiciary to legislate immigration law from the bench. The same shallow thinking that has been the hallmark of this rag for the last decade.
Great example of "begging the question", Billy.
[Due Process] is an American value, not a left-wing value.
We know it's not a left wing value since their signature accomplishments of this millennium explicitly and with celebration exclude due process. These accomplishments include Title IX as well as designating parents objecting to radical sexual and trans ideology for pre-schoolers as domestic terrorists and arresting them.
What is puzzling though is why certain Reason authors, let's just randomly pick Billy Binion as an example, make no serious objections to those policies similar to the "Everyone, Every Day" strategy Reason has implemented in defense of terrorism supporters and gang members. If only we lived in a world where public libertarians cared about regular college students' lives being ruined as much as they care about terrorism supporters being sent home.
List of people reason didn't care about due process with.
Trump
Okeefe
Mackey
Alex Jones
1600 J6ers
Flynn
Trumps lawyers
Almost like there is a pattern.
Reason says fuck 'em. They also say we're evil for saying fuck 'em about foreign gangsters and terrorist supporters catching the boot.
There are 700 federal judges. 260 work days in a year. If each judge sees one illegal immigrant per day, that's 180,000 a year. There are between 8 -12 million illegals who entered the US during Biden's administration, all without any due process.
If they are all to place their case before a judge, one per illegal, they will all have their day in court after 54 years.
Obama deported 3 million with no one crying about due process.
That’s (D)ifferent!
Actually most of them had been convicted of crimes. Due process. Trump is deporting people who have not been convicted of anything.
Other than being here illegally, which makes them criminals, asshole.
>The basic legal principle—that people have the right to challenge the evidence against them before the government takes away their liberty—is central to the Constitution.
Except . . . that is not what 'due process' is. You're confusing the things that you are entitled to in a criminal proceeding - what we require for due process when trying crimes - with how its applied, literally, in every other aspect of government life.
>"Due process of law is application by the state of all legal rules and principles pertaining to a case so all legal rights that are owed to a person are respected."
There is nothing there that says a person gets to challenge the evidence against them in an administrative proceeding. And in many, many, of these, you do not.
Plus, at the end of the day, what are these people challenging? They're here illegally - and they have no evidence to the contrary.
>". . . procedural due process requires at least for the government to afford the person notice, an opportunity to be heard, and a decision made by a neutral decisionmaker. "
That it. That is the extent of it.
Yet you guys are whining about a dude that was deported *after notice*, *after an opportunity to be heard*, and *after a decision was made by a neutral decisionmaker*.
Hey Billy, how many "immigrants" (legal or not) are you sponsoring or otherwise giving aid and comfort with your own money?
This is absolutely correct. That the Trump administration doesn't understand core american values and laws is a direct indication they are not qualified for the job, and should be removed.
"The president can, in fact, deport people. At issue is whether or not he can send them to a third-world prison, where they will be held without charge or conviction. These are two different things."
No, they aren't. This is some pretty shitty semantics. You have to deport people somewhere. If you invent a right not to be deported to specific countries based on various factors that you believe are valid, then you add bureaucracy and grift to the process. The aim is intentional: slow the process down to the point that the federal government cannot deport anyone.
Do you know why we're at this turning point? Because your way has been the way for the past 50 years. Your approach has failed. Move along. You're a dinosaur.
He had actually been convicted BEFORE he illegally entered the US.
The claimed question is itself a lie.
Here's also how it works:
Man gets final removal order in 2011, and admits he is here illegally. But says that he fears going home, so an amnesty assertion is lodged and removal is halted. In _2019_, his amnesty case is rejected. He says OK, I want voluntary removal.
He gets 60 days to leave. On what he thinks is the last possible day, he appeals. The appeals court says he's a day late, and he has to go now. He appeals the "day late" and eventually it reaches the USSC in 2024. Decided yesterday, he indeed had the extra day. So his appeal now goes forward.
It's been 15 years since he got his "final" deportation order.
And people wonder why the public is fed up.
Monsalvo Velázquez vs Bondi, decided 4/22/25
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/23-929#writing-23-929_SYLLABUS
The author of this article knows LESS about due process than the article claims other know. Garcia WAS NOT illegally deported and HAD due process. He was found to be an MS-13 member and ordered deported by TWO courts before Trump was elected. The ONLY "error" in his deportation was not complying with an ILLEGAL court order not to deport him to El Salvador. Even that order didn't prohibit deporting him to any other country, which would have sent him to El Salvador.
Not sure why most of you insufferable and unhappy dummies are here. If you don't like Reason, go jag off to some mag that tells it like you want it heard.