The Shameless Attack on a Climate Change Dissenter
We couldn't find any negative review of physicist Steven Koonin's Unsettled that disputed its claims directly or even described them accurately.
HD DownloadIn 2021, the physicist and New York University professor Steven E. Koonin, who served as undersecretary for science in the Obama administration's Energy Department, published the best-selling Unsettled: What Climate Science Tells Us, What It Doesn't, and Why It Matters.
The book attracted extremely negative reviews filled with ad hominem attacks, such as a short statement appearing in Scientific American and signed by 12 academics that, instead of substantively rebutting Koonin's arguments, calls him "a crank who's only taken seriously by far-right disinformation peddlers hungry for anything they can use to score political points" and "just another denier trying to sell a book."
We couldn't find a single negative review of Unsettled that disputed its claims directly or even described them accurately. Many of the reviewers seem to have stopped reading after the first few pages. Others were forced to concede that many of Koonin's facts were correct but objected that they were used in the service of challenging official dogma. True statements were downplayed as trivial or as things everyone knows, despite the extensive parts of Unsettled that document precisely the opposite: that the facts were widely denied in major media coverage and misrepresentations were cited as the basis for major policy initiatives.
When dissenting scientists are implicitly compared to Holocaust deniers, or their ideas are considered too dangerous to be carefully considered, it undermines public respect for the field and can lead to catastrophic policy mistakes. It's human nature to favor evidence that confirms our biases and leads to simple conclusions. But for science to advance, it's essential that moral certainty does not override objective discussion and that personal attacks not replace rational consideration of empirical evidence.
In a review of Unsettled in Scientific American, Gary Yohe, an emeritus professor at Wesleyan University, gives the impression that he didn't read past the first few pages. The book has nine chapters filled with examples of exaggerations and outright falsehoods in both scientific and popular accounts. Yohe mentions just four claims taken from the first two pages, plus one from a chapter subtitle, and manages to refute none of them.
He seizes on the assertion, which appears on page 2, that "the warmest temperatures in the US have not risen in the past fifty years."
"According to what measure?" Yohe asks. "Highest annual global averages? Absolutely not." If he had kept reading, Yohe would have found a detailed account of precisely what measure Koonin was using and the evidence that record-high temperatures in the U.S. are no more common than they were in the 1970s.
Yohe attacks Koonin's assertion that "heat waves in the US are now no more common than they were in 1900," claiming that "this is a questionable statement depending on the definition of 'heat wave,' and so it is really uninformative. Heat waves are poor indicators of heat stress."
If Yohe had read the book carefully, he would have found the official heat wave index used and why it matters. He offers no evidence that "heat stress"—something even less well-defined and, hence, less informative than "heat wave"—is greater now than in 1900.
Yohe also focuses on the first word of the book's title, unsettled. He claims that "Koonin deploys that highly misleading label to falsely suggest that we don't understand the risks well enough to take action." Actually, Koonin's argument is that claims of harm from human climate impacts have been exaggerated and are misrepresented in the press and that we should undertake more sensible and longer-term policies than many activists and politicians currently advocate.
In another article published on the website of the Union of Concerned Scientists, Yohe writes that although Koonin is "a very skilled and well-respected physicist," he should follow the approach of those who "are on the front lines," who "know what they are doing [because they]…have been doing this for 15 years."
Koonin has been attacked by others for not being a climate scientist by trade. In most dogmatic religions, only the anointed are granted the authority to speak. But science is supposed to be a discipline that's open to anyone who can interpret relevant material.
"'Unsettled' is a book you can accurately judge by its cover," wrote Mark Boslough, a fellow of the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry, in Yale Climate Review Connections, and it seems as if he barely read further. He denies that anyone in the media, politics, or otherwise of prominence has claimed that climate science is settled. He ignores all of the book's substantive points because the cover was the only part worth reading.
Koonin is accused of having "cherrypicked and carelessly misrepresented many of his sources" by Bob Ward, the policy and communications director of the Grantham Research Institute on Climate Change and the Environment at the London School of Economics and Politic Sciences.
Though his refutations are weak, at least Ward does seem to have read the book. In one chapter, Koonin takes the media to task for its overheated account of the link between human CO2 emissions and hurricane frequency, such as a USA Today article headlined, "Global warming is making hurricanes stronger, study says." That article states unequivocally that "Human-caused global warming has strengthened the wind speeds of hurricanes, typhoons and cyclones around the globe." Koonin points out that the study on which that article is based doesn't make that claim with such certainty.
Koonin quotes directly from the study, but Ward accuses him of having omitted another excerpt from the same paper, which reads: "From a storyline, balance-of-evidence, or Type-II error avoidance perspective, the consistency of the trends identified here with expectations based on physical understanding and greenhouse warming simulations increases confidence that TCs have become substantially stronger, and that there is a likely human fingerprint on this increase."
Ward must be confused about what that sentence means because it doesn't support the USA Today article or undermine Koonin's point. That passage is basically saying that although there's only suggestive evidence that tropical cyclones have gotten stronger, we're better off assuming that they are and that humans are partly responsible. Koonin likely agrees with that statement, and he's certainly correct that it doesn't justify unambiguous headlines like, "Global warming is making hurricanes stronger, study says."
After Koonin wrote a Wall Street Journal op-ed entitled, "Greenland's Melting Ice Is No Cause for Climate-Change Panic" in February 2022, a publication called Climate Feedback, which calls itself "a worldwide network of scientists sorting fact from fiction in climate change media coverage," published a response. It labeled Koonin's article: "Cherry-picking, Flawed reasoning, Lack of context, Misleading."
The point of Koonin's op-ed was straightforward and illustrated by this graph.

While Greenland is losing ice, the main driver cannot be anthropogenic climate change because there is no steady increase in line with either human CO2 emissions or atmospheric concentrations of CO2. Carbon dioxide emissions and warming may be important, but other factors were clearly more important in the past.
Koonin also acknowledged that "the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change projects that for the most likely course of greenhouse-gas emissions in the 21st century, the average annual ice loss would be somewhat larger than the peak values shown in the graph."
How is it "cherry-picking" to show all the data? Columbia University's Marco Tedesco claims that "the article picks only the last 10 years, excluding the remaining time series for the context." And yet, the graph published in the op-ed clearly shows the data since 1900 and addresses all of it.
Ironically, the Climate Feedback review is guilty of cherry-picking. It claims to rebut Koonin by stating that a 2015 article in Nature "found that ice loss between 2003 and 2010 'not only more than doubled relative to the 1983–2003 period, but also relative to the net mass loss rate throughout the twentieth century'."
In other words, Climate Feedback picked the fastest eight-year increase over the 121 years span shown on the chart and compared it to the lowest 21 years. That's the definition of cherry-picking. It's also irrelevant to the climate change debate because both periods occurred in the time period of rapid global warming, generally taken to have begun in 1970 or shortly before.
Eric Rignot of the University of California, Irvine, who contributed to Climate Feedback's attempt to rebut Koonin, dismisses the op-ed by claiming that it's rehashing "the old argument that the 30s were warmer than present [which] is false," when in fact, that's not the argument and has nothing to do with Koonin's point.
In another Climate Feedback article—this one is a review of a video that Koonin made to summarize his book—Southern Illinois University's Justin Schoof disputes Koonin's claim that U.S. heatwaves are no more common today than in 1900. "The 2018 U.S. National Climate Assessment shows that the heat wave season in the United States has increased in length since the 1960s," he writes. This is doubly irrelevant since it refers to a different metric and a different time period than Koonin referred to. To make matters worse, Schoof is citing precisely the data that Koonin explains are misleading in his book.
Why does it matter that Koonin's critics don't want to bother responding to his arguments? Substantive debate is how science advances. If climate science is just an echo chamber, we may make perverse short-term overreactions to the data that have large costs and possibly even negative environmental effects. Many historical policy disasters have been caused by people claiming they shouldn't have to engage with informed critics.
Unsettled is about more than just climate policy—it seeks to free science from the shackles of organized dogma, the sole domain of an anointed elite, who feel justified calling their critics "cranks," "deniers," and "disinformation peddlers." Why engage with a heretic when he can be banished from the church altogether?
Edited by John Osterhoudt; camera by Luis Gutierrez; art by Nathalie Walker; additional editing by Danielle Thompson.
Photo: Brett Raney
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The book attracted extremely negative reviews filled with ad hominem attacks...
Or what the commentariat calls "persuasive, logical arguments."
If you ever need to talk about your trauma: I’m here.
Well, it started with the election of 2016 and led into the bottle of Colt 45 from there.
It must have been quite traumatic to you, having the first President in 70 years who actually upheld our Constitution. Losing your 70 year control over SCOTUS, the new SCOTUS overturning all of those end-runs around Congress made possible by activist judges. The borders shut down to illegal immigrants. Congressional policies and international treaties actually favoring Americans over - everyone else.
And to top it off, you are now possessed by your own personal President Donald John Trump co-habitating within your skull - probably for life.
So sad!
Hi Tulpa.
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Every once in a while I come back across a headline like this from 2020, and it's like looking at a different world. Imagine being a kid 20 or 30 years from now and reading something like this
[Link]
"A northern Virginia teachers' union is apologizing after some of its members used child-size coffins as props at a protest seeking to delay in-person education."
[Link]
If only those leftist would really die. Each Marxist corpse would be a step closer to restoration of our freedoms.
While I do not wish death on people incautiously, nor would I shed a tear.
It's occurred to me that if Xiden gets us into a nuclear war with Russia, it is quite likely that due to poor maintenance and lack of loyalty within his military perhaps only 100 missiles might actually launch - of which we might hopefully intercept 90 or so. Russia would be obliterated, and around 10 bright blue cities would be incinerated.
I'm not seeing a down side...
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They don’t have to die. They can alternately just abandon their Marxist beliefs and live as a free American, or just leave forever. It’s really up to them.
But the left has to go.
Have you figured out what an ad hominem attack actually is yet? You struggled again just a few days ago.
Better he focus on his struggles with severe alcohol abuse.
If you're talking about the commentariat on the Washington Post website, I agree with you.
Mystical girl-bullying cowards invade the commentariat because the LP wrote the operative line in Roe. Reason has consistently produced brilliant articles on nuclear fission products, energy and environment. Superstitious Trumpanzees produce nothing except what they fling...
Be careful Hank, or I will use my mystical powers (and a progtard surgical procedure) to transform you into a girl. Then the bullying will ensue!
"From a storyline, balance-of-evidence, or Type-II error avoidance perspective, the consistency of the trends identified here with expectations based on physical understanding and greenhouse warming simulations increases confidence that TCs have become substantially stronger, and that there is a likely human fingerprint on this increase."
Now that is some crazy word salad in an attempt to act as proof. Its always about simulations and never real world actions.
It's a fancy way of saying "We believe they should in the absence of all evidence." Like a lot of climate "science," it's all based on faith.
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"We couldn't find a single negative review of Unsettled that disputed its claims directly or even described them accurately. Many of the reviewers seem to have stopped reading after the first few pages. Others were forced to concede that many of Koonin's facts were correct but objected that they were used in the service of challenging official dogma."
It wasn't easy for Galileo, either.
Instead of the Roman Catholic Church or other temporal purveyor of "truth," we have a more secular but no less religious institution overseeing that job now. But a heretic is still a heretic, and will be treated accordingly. There are reputations, power, and money riding on that, and they will not relent easily. So off to the pyre with you!
So who was ultimately proven right, all the scientists and church prelates who called Galileo a heretic or Galileo? I would find it amazing and impossible that one lone reasoning mind could find truth while thousands of elite minds couldn't.
"I would find it amazing and impossible that one lone reasoning mind could find truth while thousands of elite minds couldn’t."
Copernican heliocentrism. He didn't discover it, but provided evidence in support of his predecessor.
This conflicted with the Roman Catholic position at the time, and he was convicted by a court of Inquisition and spent the rest of his lift under house arrest; but apparently one of those few brave souls who refused the deny what his mind concluded based on the evidence.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." Jonathan Swift
Galileo's story has an interesting distinction here.
Galileo wasn't persecuted because of his ideas. He was persecuted because he mocked the church. Many of his ideas were regularly supported by the church. He ultimately wrote his scandalous text at the behest of the Pope, who was a friend and sponsor of his. He recognized that there was a schism between Galileo and the rest of the scientists, and was trying to mediate it through these papers.
Unfortunately, Galileo scored an "own goal" when he chose in the text to conflate his detractors and the church into one character that he portrayed as a simpleton that was mocked throughout the text. This turned a scientific disagreement between Galileo and other scientists to a political disagreement between Galileo and the church itself.
This is of course the danger of science and politics being mixed. When your science starts to have political repercussions, the stakes are raised.
Thank you; that is an important distinction, and I believe correctly gets to the heart of the matter.
"Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you." -Pericles
Once a group or faction has staked out a position [and tied their reputation and fortune to it] facts are the first casualty. It then becomes much more about who can yell the loudest.
Galileo wasnt alone – its just that anyone who agreed with his take was othered, deplatformed and cancelled
... and everyone else kept their mouths shut and admired the emperors clothing
I would find it amazing and impossible that one lone reasoning mind could find truth while thousands of elite minds couldn’t.
But that is how true scientific breakthroughs are always made. One person looks at the evidence differently, and realizes everyone else is wrong.
When Einstein published his theory of relativity, 100 German scientists signed a letter explaining why he must be wrong. When Einstein was asked why he continued to support his theory if 100 leading scientists were against it, he said “if they could prove my theory was wrong, they would only need one scientist.”
that's because the thousands of elite minds had no intention of finding any such thing. They had their street cred and often paychecks to distract them from even looking.
In other words they all had vested interests in maintaining the status quo. You might accurately state they were "sold out".
None of the surrenderist liars ever debate Tony Heller over at RealclimateScience dotcom. Nor did they dare debate Petr Beckmann when he was writing for Reason.
Shhhh...You might get the TradCaths started.
😉
1) In the near 50 years since "global warming" became a thing, not a single one of the catastrophists' dire predictions have been true. Not one.
2) If people were serious about 'solving' what small effects we have noticed, there would be wholesale support for nuclear power. There is nearly none.
Now why should this be seen as other than a post-Mosiac religion, aligned with a leftist political bias, attempting control over peoples' activities?
If I truly believed that fossil fuels were going to drive the climate into a Venusian runaway disaster, I would move heaven and earth to get as many nuclear reactors built as fast as possible, not a bunch of unreliable solar and wind farms. I would eviscerate safety paranoia. I would brrrrrr the money printers if necessary.
Obviously those climate clowns do not believe in their tipping point.
That "tipping point" is being played for power and influence. It is a catalyst.
I do enjoy it, though, when climate alarmists point to Venus as an example of AGW.
Can you explain why? Being serious here as I'd like understand.
Briefly, the terrestrial climate atmosphere is 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen and about 1% everything else. CO2 comes in at 400 parts per million or 0.04%. By comparison, the Venusian atmosphere is 96% CO2, 3% nitrogen and 1% everything else. It's worth noting that Mars' atmosphere is also 95% CO2, 3% nitrogen (and 2% everything else) yet Mars has no "runaway greenhouse effect" such as was argued for Venus.
More importantly, the terrestrial climate is dominated by the water cycle. This is a natural consequence of having a planet approximately 70% covered by oceans. While CO2 is a moderate greenhouse gas on a molecule-by-molecule basis, when scaled to the actual atmospheric concentrations, water vapor is several orders of magnitude more important to the terrestrial climate. The claims that CO2 needs to be limited depend on the assumption that CO2 will trigger a positive feedback loop in water vapor content. No such increases in atmospheric water vapor concentrations have been detected despite clear increases in atmospheric CO2 concentration.
While this is all good and noteworthy, I think Minadin was cheekily referencing the "anthropogenic" part. Somewhat like referring to Idris Elba as "African American."
Oh... Heh, I missed that.
But a very informative post, thanks.
My thanks anyway, Rossami. Very cool stuff.
Rossami also missed atmospheric pressure on Venus being 100 times higher on Venus and 100 times lower on Mars.
Calculating and explaining the radiative forcing and temperature outcomes isn't hard if you start with the right orders of magnitude, but this guy is so utterly clueless that he makes Koonin's polemic look like a textbook by comparison.
Clearly Iris Elba is a British African American.
"The claims that CO2 needs to be limited depend on the assumption that CO2 will trigger a positive feedback loop in water vapor content."
Are you sure about this? My understanding is that most of the positive feedback loop is from assumptions that warming will cause the oceans to release more CO2. It is less about water vapor, and more about the major increase in CO2.
Water vapor is a complicated one because it can also cause more clouds and higher albedo.
Another positive feedback I've heard a lot is thawing permafrost releasing methane and CO2.
Don’t forget MasterBlaster, and Bartertown.
No, I am quite sure about it. Yes, there is an assumed positive feedback loop between current atmospheric CO2 and CO2 out-gassing from the oceans but
1. if that hypothesis were true, CO2 levels would spiral out of control with every seasonal fluctuation. Instead, we see a climate that is notable for its relative stability. And
2. the total contribution from the amount of CO2 that can be released via oceanic outgassing is still dwarfed by the contribution of water vapor. The mathematical models assume that a warmer atmosphere has a higher carrying capacity for humidity (which it does) and further that the atmosphere definitely will take up more water vapor, holding relative humidity relatively constant. It's a clear prediction from the models - and one for which no evidence has been found despite considerable time and expense looking.
Another problem with the catastrophe narrative is that CO2 concentration during the dinosaur ages was 4-6000 ppm, 10-15 times what it is now. It seems pretty unlikely that other considerations have changed so much that a mere 50% rise now, or even doubling, could cause a runaway Venusian effect.
Part of the issue is perception. The term is called the "Runaway" Greenhouse Effect, but the "Runaway" term in no way constitutes speed, just the fact that it's a relatively uncontrolled feedback loop. That is, it's not known exactly how long it took Venus to get to the way it is, but almost certain that we're looking at the end result of the Runaway Greenhouse Effect between millions and billions of years along.
ECS/TCS drive all of it.
With the wind-whipped, semi-molten surface of Venus, this is a bit of a chicken vs. egg. conjecture. Ultimately, the hellscape vaporizes all the water. Whether that's because the heat just vaporizes the water, because the heat facilitates the dissolution of carbonates into the water, or whether the heat lowers the capacity of the water to hold/carry CO2 is a bit moot.
What is *known* is that Earth, at 1 AU and a ~70% water-covered surface, cannot undergo a runaway greenhouse effect or, at least not man-made anyway. That is, to truly fuel a runaway greenhouse effect, the closest mankind could get to being involved would be to build a robot army to do it for them and, even then, the CO2 levels would've killed off the last man well before the 'runaway' effect had been initiated.
Waitaminnit! You expect me to believe Venus is warmer just because it is over twice as close to the Sun as Mars? DENIER!
All that Venusian manufacturing wrecked their climate.
Even more fascinating is that there are now a couple of actual solutions out there which cost less without subsidies; require no scarce nor toxic materials; and can quickly be scaled up in manufacture. Why, you ask, is that fascinating?
Because I haven't seen a single mention of them in ANY Climate Crisis or MSM outlet. It's like they don't exist.
The furthest along is Eavor dotcom. They finished their final experimental dig in December, proving out their predictions on the cost of "extremely deep drilling" (they drilled over 3.5 miles in about 3 months). Immediately following that, they received a billion Euros in additional financing to build 5 additional (one plant was already under construction in Germany) plants in Europe. Anticipated LCOE - $60/MWH (competitive with natural gas in the US, cheaper than any fossil fuel energy source in Europe).
Similar to Eavor is Deep Earth Energy. They plan to simply replace the source of steam for existing power plants with closed loop geothermal (same "new" techniques Eavor is using - microwave "drill bits" which vaporize stone and glassify the bore. No pipe required once they reach "dense rock." They too have funding for their first commercial plant.
For mobile purposes, there are many in the works. I like Influit Energy - which has received funding for their first factory thanks to a USAF contract to provide deploy-able energy storage units. They are scant on details for what the energy will be used for. Could be ground transportation, could be lasers - but whatever it is, it moves them out of the lab and into "low volume" production. That means they will start out with manual assembly, giving them time to work out automation strategies and to continue improving their processes.
Real solutions are coming rapidly. The current crop is nothing but toys for virtue-signaling pirates.
They do t care about results. Which would remove their justification for control and oppression. Which is far more precious to a leftist than a clean environment.
As I suggested in the preceding comment, people are no less self aggrandizing than they were at any point in history. So we still have to have a religion by which saints [who support the dogma] anointed and heretics [anyone who has the nerve to question it] are banished. So called "science" is now the religion, the the media are its purveyors of "truth." And if any of it does turn out to be wrong, forget about it and "move on" you damned old crank!
NYC was supposed to be partly under water 10 years ago.
Pretty sure it was earlier than that, but Mann snuck in some qualifiers.
According to Al Gore, by 2015 Mt. Kilimanjaro won't have any snow on it.
Promises, promises……..
Don't forget to mention that the fifty years of global WARMING came fast on the heels of the dire and absolutely certain arrival of an ice age so devastating that San Pedro and Long Beach seaports would be non-functional because the sea levels worldwide were GOING to drop so far those seaports woud not have enough water in them to allow the ships to enter.
I remember too well those wild buckets of fear mongering. I called it for the horse exhaust it was then, and four years later we were now all going to play frog-n-the-slow-boiling pot. And die.... just as in the freeze scenario that fairy tale replaced.
I've been watching ever since and have seen nothing to support either prediction.
The world was supposed to have already ended before I was even born, way back in '76. To the best of my knowledge, it didn't.
I can see why people thought a glacial period was imminent, though. Historically speaking, that's far more likely than that we'd see temperatures akin to the Eemian.
And I'm not opposed to the thought of Manhattan reburied under 2000 feet of ice.
>>But for science to advance, it's essential that moral certainty does not override objective discussion
science has no morals, only immoral scientists.
Well put.
I've read Unsettled. The worst criticism I have is that it is boring, because there is nothing new in it. Everything in it as been known for some time. But I am not the target audience, and my criticism is from the choir tired of being preached at with known facts.
The book is meant for the fence sitters, and for fighting back against the climate clowns, and for that it is excellent. Good solid information and explanations, and plenty of references which can be checked (I never did).
It is now next on my reading list.
Streisand effect; one must ask what the orthodox are so upset about?
I don't regret reading it, even though it didn't really teach anything new. It is a good solid collection of all the evidence that climate alarmists want to hide as misinformation.
My only regret was choosing the Kindle edition. A print edition can be loaned or given to one of the free library boxes.
Good point; I like annotating such books in the margins any way.
His Rogan interview is one of the few I have lisetened to. The one after where Rogan had his detractors on the guy would constantly say he's a shill of big oil, and the tobacco lobby had scientists too. Didn't push back against anything in the book.
It is a creditable if dated and derivative performance by an astute shareholder in, and former Chief Scientist of,
British Petroleum
Which Osterhoudt shamelessly neglects to mention.
Steve has been brave enough to debate bona fide climate scientists, but with predictably mixed results:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gICW2VL434
Always be skeptical of those who abhor and condemn skepticism. Especially, when that skepticism challenges their stations in life.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_and_icehouse_Earth
List of icehouse and greenhouse periods
A greenhouse period ran from 4.6 to 2.4 billion years ago.
Huronian Glaciation – an icehouse period that ran from 2.4 billion to 2.1 billion years ago
A greenhouse period ran from 2.1 billion to 720 million years ago.
Cryogenian – an icehouse period that ran from 720 to 635 million years ago during which the entire Earth was at times frozen over
A greenhouse period ran from 635 million years ago to 450 million years ago.
Andean-Saharan glaciation – an icehouse period that ran from 450 million to 420 million years ago
A greenhouse period ran from 420 million years ago to 360 million years ago.
Late Paleozoic Ice Age – an icehouse period that ran from 360 million to 260 million years ago
A greenhouse period ran from 260 million years ago to 33.9 million years ago.
Late Cenozoic Ice Age – the current icehouse period, which began 33.9 million years ago
From Greenhouse to Icehouse and back and forth before man.
I'm going to take a wild guess that humans would probably better survive the extremes of a greenhouse period than those of an icehouse period. Though it's hard to say at such large timescales. Looking at the past million years or so of climate reconstruction, it seems like some kind of wild climate change is likely to happen on the order of every 10,000 years or so. Human civilization as far as we know has only existed after the last one of those (Younger Dryas).
I think my point is that looking at timescales like that probably isn't very useful in understanding how climate effects human civilization and what we ought to worry about as regards climate.
""I think my point is that looking at timescales like that probably isn’t very useful in understanding how climate effects human civilization and what we ought to worry about as regards climate.""
I agree.
It does show that humans are not necessary for climate change to exist therefore it is not something man made. Contrary to what many say. Man may contribute to, but is not the cause of. Climate is going to change regardless of humans.
"It does show that humans are not necessary for climate change to exist therefore it is not something man made."
Anthropogenic climate change is by definition man made.
Mtrueman, we didn’t start the fire. It was always burning since the earth was turning.
but we tried to put it out
" It was always burning since the earth was turning."
The fossil fuels that lay underground are not burning. They've been sequestered over the millennia and only burn when we set fire to them. It is humans who start the fire releasing those nasty green house gases. That's why it's called anthropogenic warming.
TrickVic and Elmer are saying that climate change exists independently of humans, Dummy!
Sanford Dummy Reel
https://youtu.be/moYdbNXBwvk
You would be safe to dismiss anything they say.
‘Whoosh!’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g
"I’m going to take a wild guess that humans would probably better survive the extremes of a greenhouse period than those of an icehouse period"
The evidence doesn't support you. There were no humans 4 billion years ago. Humans only appeared less than a million years or so during the current Cenozoic ice age.
Plenty of evidence from the past 10,000 years supports him though. Even minor cooling periods result in crop failures and famine. See the "Little Ice Age of the 14th to 19th centuries". Or the "Medieval Climate Optimum (950 to 1250 AD)" which was warm enough for the Vikings to settle Greenland, because it was, well, green. The Dark Ages and the plague followed a 2 degree temperature drop caused by a volcanic explosion around 536AD, dubbed "the worst year to be alive" in human history.
Or just check American migration patterns. People move to warmer climates all the time, at least since air conditioning was invented.
"Plenty of evidence from the past 10,000 years supports him though."
The past 10,000 years have been in the Cenozoic age. Humans flourished during this period. During the greenhouse periods, humans didn't exist, let alone flourish.
"which was warm enough for the Vikings to settle Greenland,"
Humans have been living in Greenland continuously for some 4,000 years. Never underestimate our ability to adapt and thrive.
"People move to warmer climates all the time"
People avoid the warmest climates. Death Valley, Sahara etc.
And humans and their closest ancestors have lived in tropical Africa for millions of years. I'm pretty sure humans can figure out how to thrive in a warmer climate.
" I’m pretty sure humans can figure out how to thrive in a warmer climate."
You mean like not burning fossil fuels? Adopting a vegan diet? Isn't this the kind of thriving you wish to avoid?
Too warm is not good. The plants we raise to sustain us cannot cope with extreme heat. Look at the famines that ravished Asia in the 19th century. Crop failures led to the deaths of tens of millions in a matter of months.
People avoid Death Valley and the Sahara not because they are "warm" but because they are dry. Note that there are many places as hot (or hotter) than the Sahara on average where humans thrive. They are all wet and support more vegetation.
And before you start claiming that climate change will dry up the planet, please note that the satellite evidence over the past several decades has been aggregate greening of the planet.
"Note that there are many places as hot (or hotter) than the Sahara on average where humans thrive. "
In Lytton, British Columbia in 2021, they recorded a temperature of 121F over a period of several days, Canada's record highest. Hundreds died and wild fires burned the town down. That's not thriving or greening. That's a disaster to the people who'd lived there.
Wild fires…….. because it was dry. And people died…… from the fire.
"And people died…… from the fire."
If that's what you call 'thriving,' no thanks.
The fire killed them, not the weather temperature. Damn, you’re rounded at the free end.
No facts support you.
Fuck off, Prog.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
There were no animals comparable in history to humans for such a determination to be made empirically; however, it is objectively verified that mankind is more adaptable than any other species in history.
"it is objectively verified that mankind is more adaptable than any other species in history."
More adaptable than dogs, rats and cockroaches? Try surviving on the diet that can sustain a dog for a year. My wilderness survival tip is to ignore the food your dog eats, as they have a strong stomach and food they eat can easily kill a human. Instead, follow the example of your pig and eat what it eats. Their digestive system is roughly compatible with humans.
For those that worship at this alter, do you live a carbon neutral life?
No, they must be able to fly first class to Davos, and are therefore counting on YOUR carbon credits to offset.
It boils down to two possibilities.
The first is they believe it and are living the message. Methinks few are in this category. Be the change you want to see.
The second possibility is they are not living the lifestyle. They either want to control/inhibit another’s success, which is why they should be ignored, or they believe the message but are incapable of accomplishing this task making them ineffective, which is a different reason why they should be ignored.
For them, it is a zero sum game. They expend the carbon and expect us not to.
John Kerry, Bill Gates, Michael Bloomberg, Al Gore, Prince William ... each has a carbon footprint the size of a small nation
I suspect more arrived in Davos via private jet than first class.
altar
Thanks. Not sure why I would altar the spelling. -1 point.
We should help the acolytes of this climate religion achieve carbon neutrality. I suggest a compulsory euthanization program for them. Followed by mulching their remains. Or just skip a step and euthanize them through mulching.
Remember that they are the party of Science (TM) and that the core tenant of Science (TM) is blind, unquestionable faith. That is what separates the enlightened followers of the Science(TM) from the dirty heathens.
Climate change is a religion and a feeding trough for the climate change industrial complex. Tell them that Jesus didn't walk on the water or threaten the grift and they foam at the mouth.
The 800 pound gorilla that environmental extremists, Democrats and left wing media propagandists refuse to address or discuss is that China has increased its carbon emissions from 500 million tons in 1984 to 2900 million tons in 2019, a nearly sixfold increase).
Meanwhile, carbon emissions by the US have declined from 1600 million tons in 2000 to 1300 in 2019, a 20% decline (which is by far the largest decline in the world).
Even if the US halted all carbon emissions in the next 10, 20 or 30 years (which would destroy our economy, military, government and civilization), the increase in Chinese carbon emissions will nullify all declines made by the US, while the increase in global carbon emissions will be even greater.
Seems like the environmental extremists who insist upon banning carbon in America just want to quickly destroy the US and assist the Chinese Communist Party to take over the world.
See how Chinese carbon emissions have continued to sharply increase since 1984, while US emissions have declined by 20% this century.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-58922398
But if you blame China, you are by default a racist. Same as with COVID, "Don't blame China." Joe Biden
Yup. The US and Europe are just going to neuter themselves if they continue on this path, while China, India and the rest of the developing world will keep doing what they are doing.
Canada has a yearly per capita energy consumption of about 100,000 kWh. DR Congo, a bit more than 500.
What the fuck is your point? There are hundreds of countries whose energy needs are only growing, and will continue to do so. The best thing that could happen to the people of DRC is if their energy use could double every year. Cheap energy is the best way out of absolute poverty.
" Cheap energy is the best way out of absolute poverty."
Schellenberger, one of Reason's favorite sources of climate solutions, advocates the richest nations to subsidize exploitation of coal and other fossil fuels in places like DR Congo. The thinking goes that it's the best way to make them clean and wealthy like us.
My concern is that the plan scheme ignores all the research that tells us of the dangers and uncertainties of the inevitable green house gases. That our wealth somehow magics these difficulties away. That is my point. I didn't spell it out explicitly until you asked because I thought it wasn't necessary.
Your moronic master Biden is bankrupting this country to the benefit of a China, which is poisoning the planet and enriching themselves.
It’s a shame you don’t learn lessons.
"Your moronic master Biden is bankrupting this country to the benefit of a China,"
American electric vehicle manufacturers also benefit from Biden's policies. Also those who engage in 'reforestation' to reap carbon credits, only to repeat the process when they are consumed in wild fires. Don't blame the Chinese if you're not clever enough to get in on the grift.
Great, we’re stepping over a hundred dollar bill to pick up a penny. And it isn’t the government’s job to do any of this. Better we divest ourselves of you democrats.
Get out while it’s still optional.
"Great, we’re stepping over a hundred dollar bill to pick up a penny. "
It's ultimately a question of energy and science. Don't succumb to the distraction of economics.
There is a big overlap among the covid alarmists and the climate alarmists. Virtue signaling through never ending draconian nonsense.
The overlap continues into those who are Woke/progressive and virtual signal over every small detail and issue. They're the same people.
"How is it "cherry-picking" to show all the data?"
Are you challenging the CDC with your subversive misinformation?
(See various accounts of CDC bullshit.)
Tragically, our universities have become (reverted to) more like religious institutions where clerics "debate" doctrine before running off to brainwash eager acolytes. I suppose we can look forward to a woke future where factions will argue about which color compost bin saves the planet more, and how best to punish dissenters.
" I suppose we can look forward to a woke future where factions will argue about which color compost bin saves the planet more"
You're too optimistic. The only faction that will matter will be the truly wealthy, living in compounds equipped with independent power and fresh water, and food supplies kept safe from the rising waters by submarine doors.
Wasn’t that the premise of that Bladerunner knockoff HBO did a few years ago?
Life imitates Art. And Bill and Sam and George.
Thankfully, all the folks promoting CAGW have gone carbon neutral.
You believe in a lot of stupid bullshit. God help you when everyone else heere figures out it’s a waste of time to argue with you malignant morons and proceeds to do the only logical thing.
You're being willfully naive if you think today's truly wealthy people haven't made provisions for emergency power, food and water, and are content to rely on the same sources the rest of us schlubs use.
You’re not wealthy, but you are culpable. You and your fellow travelers here will fare poorly if you keep pushing Americans.
I muted the commie retard as soon as we had the function available. Because he says nothing of value, ever.
"The 2018 U.S. National Climate Assessment shows that the heat wave season in the United States has increased in length since the 1960s," he writes. This is doubly irrelevant since it refers to a different metric and a different time period than Koonin referred to."
Longer heat waves are hardly irrelevant. If heat waves are a couple of days longer than they once were, that's a big problem for the crops we rely on for survival. The big problem for people is a lack of cooling in the evening, especially in urban areas. This cool period saves lives and without it, people can die of organ failure. If Koonin hasn't taken these factors into account, it reflects poorly on his argument.
More people die from lack of heat than from lack of cooling. Crops thrive in warmer, more humid conditions with extra CO2 in the air. The earth is actually emerging from a period of near starvation of atmospheric CO2.
Lastly, neither CO2 nor methane nor any other single GHG or combination thereof in the atmosphere has any influence on the overwhelming effect of the molar mass, density and pressure of the atmosphere itself to determine global temps...
"More people die from lack of heat than from lack of cooling"
Not during heat waves. Humans cope with heat by sweating and beyond a certain point, sweating doesn't have this effect but make it worse, especially if the heat is accompanied by high humidity.
"Crops thrive in warmer, more humid conditions with extra CO2 in the air."
Crops are tolerant to heat, but too much will kill them, or just as bad for us, ruin the harvest. Plants are not unlike humans in that way. Only crops can't avail themselves of air conditioning. They aren't prone to the lack of cooling in the evening though because that's an urban phenomenon.
"Lastly, neither CO2 nor methane nor any other single GHG or combination thereof in the atmosphere"
CO2 seems be absorbed into the oceans a great deal more than previously expected.
“More people die from lack of heat than from lack of cooling”
Not during heat waves.
And how many people die of heat stroke during cold spells?
And how many people die of heat vs. die of cold in any given year?
Crops are tolerant to heat, but too much will kill them
You know what kills them even worse? That would be "frost."
“Lastly, neither CO2 nor methane nor any other single GHG or combination thereof in the atmosphere”
CO2 seems be absorbed into the oceans a great deal more than previously expected.
And when in doubt, change the subject.
The subject is CO2. Seems a good deal of it is absorbed by our oceans.
The subject is CO2. Seems a good deal of it is absorbed by our oceans.
"neither CO2 nor methane nor any other single GHG or combination thereof in the atmosphere"
Remember how we're talking about the climate?
I haven't read the book and only skimmed the article. Apologies if my comments are out of line.
Mtrueman, and this thread, are examples of why it’s a waste of time to argue with these fools. Just get rid of them before they destroy us.
Woodchippers.
They'll make great fertilizer.
It will be good to finally get some productive use out of them.
This cool period saves lives and without it, people can die of organ failure. If Koonin hasn’t taken these factors into account, it reflects poorly on his argument.
Had you actually engaged with the argument you're criticizing, you would realize that one of his points was that there are orders of magnitude more deaths from cold than there are from heat, yet we don't talk about that, for some reason.
"magnitude more deaths from cold than there are from heat, yet we don’t talk about that, for some reason."
There are many things that kill more than heat waves. Heart disease, for example. Lengthening heat waves and the problem of a lack of cooling in the evening seem worth mentioning in a book about heat waves. It's not to Koonin's credit that he sees fit to ignore them, or dismiss them as irrelevant.
Lengthening heat waves and the problem of a lack of cooling in the evening seem worth mentioning in a book about heat waves.
So write a book about heat waves.
Koonin's book is not about heat waves, it's about how people just like yourself squirm and squirm and squirm to avoid talking about the science. Like you're doing right now.
I saw the words heat waves in the article. I assumed heat waves were discussed in the book.
They are. And they are carefully defined and the underlying data discussed in the context of those definitions. The point of the book (or that part, at least) is that the claims about heat waves (some of which you make above) are not supported by the actual scientific studies of heat waves.
"are not supported by the actual scientific studies of heat waves."
There are many studies showing longer, more intense heat waves and a longer heat wave season, and the negative effects these have on human health. (NOAA, 2022 for example) To dismiss these studies as irrelevant is ludicrous. The problem of lack of an evening cooling period in urban areas is also well understood.
"The problem of lack of an evening cooling period in urban areas is also well understood."
Urban Idiots win the Darwin Award.
Winning is better than losing.
Actually, higher temperatures and CO2 levels IMPROVE crop yields. They increase rainfall - recall that in the late Roman period North Africa was the imperial breadbasket, and the global cooling following the Krakatoa explosion in the 1880s REDUCED crop yields, due to more water being locked up in snowcaps and ice. On the great plains of North America, the 8 years following Krakatoa saw significantly reduced rainfall over the prior period. CO2 is as important to plant metabolism as oxygen is to human metabolism - it is the primary source of the carbon needed for the plant to produce cellulose and physically grow.
“Actually, higher temperatures and CO2 levels IMPROVE crop yields.”
Consider, if you will, a plot of temperatures over a year. It should ideally be a normal or gaussian distribution – a bell curve in layman’s terms. Now imagine the temperature increasing by 2 degrees. Plot the temperatures, and again we see a bell curve. Only shifted to the right. That means the cold temperatures at the extreme left of the curve aren’t as frequent, and the extreme hot temperatures of previous times are more frequent and the hottest temperatures we can expect are unprecedented. Wheat and other plants we’ve come to rely on for our survival have adapted to thrive under certain conditions. If those conditions, like the absence of extremely hot temperatures over many days, are no longer in place, crop failure is a possibility.
“On the great plains of North America, the 8 years following Krakatoa saw significantly reduced rainfall over the prior period.”
In the aftermath of the mount Pinatubo, it was sub saharan Africa that experienced drought and North America had flooding. So, go figure.
“CO2 is as important to plant metabolism ”
It’s one of my favorite gases for that very reason.
I've yet to have anyone refute the claims made in this short (18 pages w/footnotes) paper which demolishes the entire idea of GHG causing temperature changes in any planet with a thick atmosphere like earth's and 6 of the other 8 planets:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/324599511_Thermal_Enhancement_on_Planetary_Bodies_and_the_Relevance_of_the_Molar_Mass_Version_of_the_Ideal_Gas_Law_to_the_Null_Hypothesis_of_Climate_Change
Thermometers prove the earth is not warming. Socialized fraud jimmies the temperature figures the way Republicans and Democrats count votes. See realclimatescience for gif images showing how NASA infiltrators report different temperatures for the SAME TIME.
What would some guy who was an indifferent student in college, who went on to work as a patent clerk in Switzerland, know about physics?!!!
But Einstein endorsed "real" Socialism (after the Hitler version was safely muted), and admitted that it relied on the initiation of force. So doesn't that make socialism (Hitler's version excepted) settled science?
A decade or so ago I published a paper in World Medical and Health Policy on how political preferences can distort scientific*ethics*, citing the Climategate e-mails of Mann et al showing them pressuring editors to reject papers that disagreed with their findings, including ones members of the group agreed were solid work.
I was attacked as a "denier" and a "skeptic" even though I specifically took NO position in the paper on the AGW hypothesis. It is kind of ironic that the critics viewed being a skeptic as a negative while arguing "Science!" Skepticism IS the first virtue of science, after all. I still run across articles that mention the paper as an example of attacks by "right-wing climate deniers" on science, when in fact it was a DEFENSE of the virtues of dispassionate, unbiased empirical science.
"It is kind of ironic that the critics viewed being a skeptic as a negative while arguing “Science!” Skepticism IS the first virtue of science, after all."
How is this ironic? You discovered yourself that political preferences can distort scientific ethics. Read the comments here and you'll see that fear of change and proposals to limit the burning of fossil fuels leads people to reject or minimize it. That's not skepticism, it's sticking your fingers in your ears and your head in the sand. Not a virtue at all.
Reason writers are experts in shameless attacks on people.
And their commentariat demonstrates they know how to teach
One can only emotionally commit to catastrophic climate change, it’s not something you can demonstrate factually, because the facts simply do not support it.
Note carefully when people shift from talking about observed facts to projections and what-ifs. When that shift happens — as it inevitably will — ask which scenario is being used for the modeled projection. Is it the least plausible one, the one that assumes that coal-burning power plants will increase, not decrease? The one that assumes the maximum sensitivity to CO2?
When people move from talking about trends in observed measurements to what-ifs based on a range of hypothetical parameters, the discussion has distinctly moved away from pure science. The standard for proof moves from what one can measure with an instrument to what one can feel about the possibility of something happening.
Climate change (and the only constant concerning climate is that it changes) occurs on a geologic time scale. Since our reliable climate observations date back to less than 200 years ago, I submit that we simply don't know enough to make any radical policy changes.
At realclimatescience dotcom click the 10th link: Alterations to US Climate Record. No looter comments on the blatantly fake data offered by NASA to lie about temperature trends. The GIF joining the images is the smoking gun of infiltration and sabotage of the sort that turns NASA into a Guyana cult and the LP into accessories to depriving women of individual rights to please the Army of God.
What could possibly go wrong with Libertarians making common cause with the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation ?
https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2014/07/he-maketh-me-to-lie-down-in-green.html
That's why the corrupt government needs censorship. Censorship of opposing views on climate, vaccines and war with Russia. They have no successful arguments on substance.
Guns have argued pretty successfully in the past, and thanks to 2A the debate is not totally one-sided. But thermometers show NO, repeat, NO warming trend over the past century.
Can we please just call climate change what it is folks?
This is a religion loved by those who claim to have no use for religion. They bragged about how enlightened they were, and scoffed at the idiocy and primative ideas of prior generations for their silly religious practices, and then they adopted all of the same dogmatic groupthink religious folks have with the same elements that have been seen in various sects: original sin, calls for austerity, and calls for penance, while shaming heretics who dare to question official dogma.
They got played by themselves and lack the insight to know this is true.
Its a combination of lack of historical knowledge, lack of self reflection, stupidity, and hubris
And boy howdy do they get angry when you call it a religion. And they're only angry because you're engaged in heresy by pointing out that it's a religion.
Petitionproject.org: "We urge the United States government to reject the global warming agreement that was written in Kyoto." "There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the forseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate." I was a volunteer collecting some of the 31,000+ verified signatures from degreed scientists. NONE of the looter scientist-impersonators have shown error in the petition statement.
Eskimos know that ice is an insulator. Iceland's fossil glaciers lie atop 43 million tonnes of uranium, an ore studied because it emits heat. SO OF COURSE ICE MELTS. Yet WW2 planes were still buried under 100 feet of snow there. Ecological nationalsocialists are so terrified of the wealth of energy under those glaciers that their most illiterate saboteurs seek to use violence of law to hoard it underground. Illiterate? Who else would measure ore concentration in Uranium "parts per minute"? Search it and see 54,600 results!
And pouring water into an overflowing bathtub does not change its level
The Climate Cultists of the Holy Orthodox Church of Man-Caused Climate Change call anybody who disputes their holy texts using fact and data a blasphemer and a scoundrel, no matter how correct that skeptic is, no matter how wrong the Climate Cultists repeatedly are.
Sadly, our educational system is pumping out indoctrinated sheep who don't have the tools or the knowledge to understand enough about science to question the Orthodox Climate religion they've been programmed to believe.
Remember that year "Global Warming" turned to "Climate Change"?
Oh yeah; it was about spot on the year temperatures started dropping.
Guns & Gold, Guns & Gold... That's what it's been about all along.
More, more, more ***excuses*** to point Guns (Gov-Guns) at those 'icky' people and get a criminalistic-high of self-important ego boosting drugs.
The left are the slime of the earth and they belong in prison to protect the liberty and justice of all people. They are the criminals that never get caught up in the legal system because they make their criminal mentalities USC legal but violate the Supreme Law like nobodies business.
The DNC = The biggest Gun toting Urban GANGS to hit the USA.
The party of slavery, the party of the Nazis(National Sozialists), the party of the KKK.
The only thing that keeps them safe is their level of self-sustaining bigotry.
It's right there in the political ideology of their party name.
[WE] mob RULES! There is no human-rights 'principles' Supreme Law. Which ever GANG packs the most GUNS wins!
"Remember that year “Global Warming” turned to “Climate Change”? Oh yeah; it was about spot on the year temperatures started dropping."
Because climate involves a lot more than temperature. And there was a period at the time when atmospheric temperatures had not climbed for a while, ocean surface temperatures continued to rise throughout.
This gets better and better... So long for identifying some crisis as being Warmer or Colder.. Now Climate itself has nothing to do with temperatures....
Exactly how GD Stupid can the leftards get?
“Now Climate itself has nothing to do with temperatures….”
Incorrect. Temperature is part of climate. So is rain fall, wind, ocean currents, and geological activity etc.
“Exactly how GD Stupid can the leftards get?”
We still have our work cut out for us if we aim to reach your levels. Kudos though for your non blasphemous insults. Jesus would approve if he wasn't a leftard himself.
And you Power-Mad wack-jobs are going to care about the full spectrum of a "Climate" when? Just as long as some factor of it is "Changing"?
So long as the weather keeps changing [WE] psycho's need MORE, MORE, MORE Gov-Gun suppression...... /s
"And you Power-Mad wack-jobs are going to care about the full spectrum of a “Climate” when? "
Not until it's too late.
It’s self-destructive ideology 101.
GUN dictation isn’t going to “save” anyone from anything.
It will however destroy Individuality, Freedom and Justice.
The “end of days” has been used repeatedly (with NO, NONE, ZERO actual materialization) for as long as the world has existed. Yet the GUNS used has killed countless.
For F’Sakes OPEN THE F*CKEN FRONT DOOR!!!!!!
Do you see a climate emergency??????
Hello REALITY!!!
You want "climate science"; Here's your science ----> EVERY-SINGLE climate prediction has been prove 100% !!!---FALSE---!!! by the test of time. Even usual BS theories happen to fall on success at least once in a while... But not "climate science"... It's 100% BS.
The predicted heat trapping qualities of green house gases have been observed and measured for over a century. What more can you ask of a science?
Some alignment with reality especially if it wants to use Gov-GUNS.
And frankly any Gov-Gun usage should require a Constitutional Amendment.
"...such as a short statement appearing in Scientific American and signed by 12 academics that, instead of substantively rebutting Koonin's arguments, calls him "a crank who's only taken seriously by far-right disinformation peddlers hungry for anything they can use to score political points""
Totally unsurprising. None of the people making those remarks can even form a coherent sentence expressing what principles or policies define someone as "far right."
I can.
Today "left" and "right" have coalesced almost perfectly across the totalitarian - anarchy scale. "Far right" equates to a repudiation of all totalitarian agendas - a true existential threat to totalitarians everywhere, and they know it. In fact, only "far left" can even conceivably be "radical" (in its abuses); "far right" can best be described as simply the absence of totalitarian / abusive laws and policies, and therefore cannot ever become "radical" - except to angry, frustrated totalitarians.
I got up this morning and walked outside and noticed this big yellow/orange thing low on the horizon; later on I went outside and checked my mail. The big orange/yellow thing was higher in the sky and the temperature was higher. In the afternoon I went to the pool at my condo (remember I live in Florida) and it was even hotter.
But even living in Florida I have noticed a trend in the weather, it is hot in the summer and cooler in the winter. Back when I was just a whippersnapper I read someplace that this was because as the earth rotates around the sun it's axis it tilted so more sunlight hits Florida (and the Northern Hemisphere) in the summer and less in the winter. In fact the only reason the earth is not an ice ball is because all that sunshine hits it. The thing is the sun is basically an uncontrolled nuclear reaction (like all other stars) and like all other stars is what is called a variable star and the energy it emits varies by 1-2% for reasons not well understood (but probably because it is an uncontrolled nuclear reaction).
When you combine the unreliable sun as an energy source and vulcanism (Google "the year without a summer) and "536 the worst year in human history") it is easy to understand why the temperature varies on earth.
It is a little harder to understand why rent seekers are so successful at taking advantage of it.
” it is easy to understand why the temperature varies on earth.”
Wouldn’t the temperature changes also be correlated with those of the moon? The sun also provides the moon with any heat it gets. Any variations should be measurable. Fame and fortune awaits those who can demonstrate your hypothesis.
Is this an attempt at sarcasm? The moon receives solar radiation but retains no heat as it has no atmosphere. It is also tidally locked and has a completely different cycle of light exposure.
Your eagerness to counter every argument against AGW with fallacy, innuendo and wealth shaming, is impressive. Dissemble, deflect, distract. You certainly have read the playbook.
"Is this an attempt at sarcasm? "
No, I'm curious if the moon's temperature is affected in any way similar to the earth, as both are heated by the sun.
It's just a question. I really didn't mean to trigger you.
Climate policy playbooks are a thing, and they get commissioned on both sides of K- street.
It's hard to get exercised over Koonin's Climate Lawyering , or fossil fuel flackery by former Enron PR guys when John Podesta's climate playbook was ghostwritten by the spin doctors who gave us Masters of Disaster
If the truth be told there have been studies of temperature changes on some of the planets. As others have pointed out comparing the moon's temperature to the Earth's temperature is like comparing apples to petrified orange armadillos since the moon does not rotate or tilt. Even a planet like Mars which rotates can't really be compared to the Earth due to not just tilting differences but also precession. While the Earth tilts between 22 to 25 degrees Mars tilts between 25 to 60 degrees which means the poles on Mars are much closer to it's equator at 60 degrees and the ice melts. Precession is how long it takes for this tilting to complete one complete rotation. Earth precession takes about 26,000 years which corresponds to how far Earth's ice ages are apart. Currently Mars has around a 25 degree tilt but the last time it was at a 60 degree tilt was about 370,000 years ago. Even the Earth's precession is at a time scale that is longer than Earth's written history while there are still questions about how long precession on Mars takes.
We are not even close to being finished yet. The planets are almost never in a straight line and even when they are it is never for very long. Not to mention the planets do not orbit the Sun in a circular orbit always the same distance from the Sun so the Earth could be at it's closest distance from the Sun while Mars was at it's greatest distance from the Sun which would make any comparison meaningless.
Even so back when the term global warming was being used observations of the polar ice caps on Mars indicated they were shrinking and global warming alarmists were getting bashed about SUV emissions on Earth causing global warming on Mars. The devil is in the details.
"as others have pointed out comparing the moon’s temperature to the Earth’s temperature is like comparing apples to petrified orange armadillos"
Both are bathed in sunlight. Some parts of the moon are cold and some are hot. Do these temperatures change in accord with any temperature change the sun causes to occur on earth? The answer is either yes, no or maybe.
If the sun's energy varies its effects should be observable throughout the solar system. There's a million dollars in Nobel prize money to the keen eyed astronomer who finds them.
The "emeritus" critic engages in political science and shows his laziness and lack of intellectual honesty. I'm waiting for more of these knuckleheads to come out and tell us that the Earth is flat and the planets revolve around our planet and our disbelief has us being attacked because we're "deniers."
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