If Ron DeSantis Is So Bad, Why Is Living in Florida So Good?
A live Reason discussion about how libertarians should think about the country's most controversial governor.
HD DownloadNo governor is more cheered and hated right now than Florida Republican Ron DeSantis, currently in the news for flying around 50 Venezuelan migrants to Martha's Vineyard. The 44-year-old Navy veteran and double-Ivy-Leaguer also headlined the third National Conservatism Conference, where he emphasized that the state should punish and reward businesses and individuals based on political positions.
Controversially, DeSantis has yanked longstanding tax breaks for Walt Disney Corporation after the company criticized his stance on gay rights, signed legislation that would limit social media platforms' ability to moderate content and users (the law has been blocked by a federal court), banned mask mandates in public schools, and issued an executive order prohibiting businesses from requiring proof of vaccination from customers. He's also pushed cities such as Gainesville to abandon zoning reform aimed at creating more diverse, multi-family housing.
If such top-down edicts seem at odds with traditional conservative support for local decision making and support for business interests, DeSantis has also gotten high marks for mostly keeping K-12 schools open during the pandemic and overseeing a boom in people moving to Florida to escape lockdowns elsewhere. When COVID death rates are adjusted for the age of residents, Florida's rate (275 per 100,000) draws close to California's (267 per 100,000), while both are below the national average (302 per 100,000). He's a strong supporter of gun rights and signed a $1.2 billion tax break package this spring, promising even more cuts if he gets reelected in November. Despite increased levels of spending each year of his governorship, the state is currently sitting on a $22 billion budget surplus.
So how should libertarians think about Ron DeSantis? Is he "a retaliatory culture warrior" and the leading indicator of an "authoritarian convergence" of the right and left? Or is he a successful large-state governor, the future of the Republican party, and, quite possibly, the next president of the United States? How should libertarians think about his mix of bullying and bravura that is turning the Sunshine State from a joke to one of the hottest destinations in the country?
Nick Gillespie leads a conversation about DeSantis and Florida with two recent blue-state refugees: Reason Senior Producer Zach Weissmueller, who pulled up stakes in California, and New York Post columnist Karol Markowicz, who hightailed it out of New York.
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DeSantis has none of the baggage and corruption of the Con Man and would probably trample the Democrat in 2024.
Of course the Trump Cult has their own plan to resurrect Fat-ass Donnie's dying political career.
But like you knew all the way back in May 2021, Trump will go to prison for a classified documents scandal most of us only heard about in August 2022. He can't run a Presidential campaign from behind bars.
The 2024 nomination is between DeSantis and Liz Cheney. And it's clear who Koch / Reason libertarians prefer.
#PutTheNeoconsBackInCharge
Teflon Donnie is running out the clock on his crimes like Roy Cohn taught him and old Fred how to do.
With eleven of his subordinates indicted or convicted the window is narrowing for the Con Man's indictment. The crimes are there but OJ style jury protection may shield him. Donnie may walk like OJ did on the major crime but will trip up like OJ did on some bullshit later.
Donnie and OJ - cut from the same cloth.
You're just jealous that you didn't get a ride on Epstein's Lolita Air.
And after amassing all those pedo points too. He already has most of the catalogue stuff already, so now what's he supposed to do with them?
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The walls are closing in.
turd lies; it’s all he ever does. turd is a kiddie diddler, a TDS-addled pile of shit and a pathological liar, entirely too stupid to remember which lies he posted even minutes ago, and also too stupid to understand we all know he’s a liar.
If anything he posts isn’t a lie, it’s totally accidental.
turd lies; it’s what he does. turd is a lying pile of lefty shit.
Fuck off and die, turd.
This time they've got him.
The difference with the OJ trial: it was clear something illegal had actually happened before leftists decided who’s guilty of it.
Liz Cheney has zero chance. She's a has been.
When was she a been?
Polis? Come on Nick..give an Italian American some cred....
CNN headline News, March 6, 2050: Wolf Blitzer reporting/ Aaannyyy ddddaaayyyy nnnoww Dddddonald Tttrumpppp wwwill be ssssennnnnttto pprison.
How is your fake, nonexistent multi-million dollar stock portfolio doing, dipshit? It can't be doing all that great considering every major market index is lower now than it was when Biden's decrepit old monkey ass was inaugurated exactly 20 months ago. And as if all that wasn't bad enough, the odds of a third straight quarter of negative GDP growth are skyrocketing by the day!
You were banned for linking to child pornography.
You guys are going to make sarc defend pedos again.
We don't make him do anything. Fuck off slaver
Eat shit, pedo.
COVID reported deaths FLORIDA (NOTE: its not a rate unless its vs. time!!!!)
Total COVID deaths 80949 - population 21.22 million or 381 per 100,000 - not sure how you "adjust that for age"
At a time when vaccines were widely available and more effective, Florida peaked at a death rate of over 400 deaths per day (Aug, 2021).
Contrast to New York - about the same population
Total COVID deaths 70802 - population 19.51 or 362 - with the majority of deaths happening early 2020. NY peak during the summer of 2021 - 24 to 30 deaths per day. NY peak when vaccines were available? Jan 2022, about 100 deaths per day.
Deathsantis campaign against vaccination (even though he was vaccinated was apparently successful, if you think increasing deaths is a success.
And that is not even counting excess deaths. There have been a number of studies that suggest that excess deaths, people dying for reasons other than COVID also increased in Florida... meaning either they didn't have access to services and died because of that OR Florida under-counted COVID deaths and it was worse.
All Deathsantis had to say was "Hey, you should get the vaccine, but I will not make you" vs. "There is no way Florida will mandate vaccines"
"Hey, you should get the vaccine, but I will not make you" vs. "There is no way Florida will mandate vaccines"
I don't see any difference whatever between these two statements.
Excess deaths is not the same thing as people dying for reasons other than Covid, you dim-witted simpleton. Not even close.
Does it hurt when your knuckles drag on the ground like that, monkey?
Imagine being such a piece of shit that you equate “we’re not going to force you and we’re going to tell our underlings and corporations that they can’t force you to take an experimental drug” with “you shouldn’t take this experimental drug at all”.
You’re like the morons who say that Trump told all his followers to drink bleach and never get the vaccine.
NY was the epicenter of the entire pandemic, largely due to Prog hero Cuomo sending infected people to nursing home. They own a chunk of deaths in the east (especially in the early days of pandemic), and FL was a popular vacation spot. It's a bit silly to say "NY has only this much total death".
FL relaxed restrictions earlier than other big states and went through big spike during the omnicron surge. FL has lots of elder retirees and more Latinos than NY (among the at risk groups), so rise in deaths is not unsurprising.
The terrifying result is that more Californians and New Yorkers are moving into FL than vice versa. Daily deaths and hospitalization sound scary on paper but even democrats realize that it comes from small minority of the overall population and were unhealthy to begin with. Desantis was against vaccine mandates, he never did a thing to stop anyone from getting vaccinated.
Hundreds of people die everyday of some minor disease, and most democrats are capable of discerning perspective. How many people suffer from drug addiction, depression, obesity, and even rise in crime thanks to lockdown policies? Americans want to treat Covid like a flu now, FL merely got a head start.
What about the corruption of Biden, Hillary, and people like Gov Newsome? There is so much cover up when it comes to democrats. How can you people be so blind to the lies of the left, yet be hypocritcal when talking about Trump. They have been after the man for over 6 years and found nothing! This content harassment is fear that he exposes the establishment democrats and republicans.
Let's all play the "My tyrant is better than your tyrant" game! What could go wrong? Whoever wins, we all lose, even as the voters celebrate their mistaken choice to be ruled, dictated to. It's the democratic way! Hurray!
Remember the "Democratic Republic of Socialist Germany" or the "Democratic Republic of Communist China" or the "Democratic Republic of Socialist Russia"? They all have "constitutions" guaranteeing rights.
Nick is becoming more and more of an obsessive dick with open borders. God forbid free association which allows states to form and said states get to decide who comes in. Open borders are inhumane as by having them it signals to those wanting to come that there are opportunities here and support. And once they get here the Feds put the burden on the States and Local communities. Like Martha Vinyard, they make the law BUT are not the ones who actually have to live with it. Sorry Nick....focus on killing the Federal Reserve, Ending foreign wars, stopping the continued DIE ideology from destroying the Bill of Rights. Oh and Zach..MV is about 70% in land area of Gaza where 2M poor souls are kept and bombed often with American bombs. Do the math..70% of 2M is 1.4M....MV is rich and easily could take 10% of that or 140K Palestinians.
The Italian Stallion. Time for the left to accept Italian Americans are not putting up with bolshie NYC crap anymore. Waiting for the bigotry from the left on Italians.
Was watching some old clips of John Candy on SCTV: Trump IS Johnny LaRue. We had Johnny LaRue as President for four years.
Better than what we have now in Biden. But sure, go defend that pedo SPB.
If anything about Florida is good, it's the weather and beaches (which have nothing to do with DeSantis) and Disney (which, like most multi-billion dollar entities, opposes DeSantis).
Guy's a literal KIDNAPPER and HUMAN TRAFFICKER. Can you imagine the sheer depravity required to send Brown bodies to Martha's Vineyard? Literal Hitler stuff — and as a #Resistance member I don't make that claim lightly.
#RemoveRon
Can you imagine the sheer depravity required to send Brown bodies to Martha's Vineyard? Literal Hitler stuff
*Sheds tear over Trump-era lost investments in cattle car stocks*
When did Hitler stop people from sneaking into Nazi Germany by sending them to Martha's Vineyard?
I thought the beaches were gone due to global warming.
They aren't gone, they are just moving further inland.
Not remotely true. Florida hasn't shrunk significantly as was claimed.
Florida won't exist by 2028, so he'll be a one-term President at best.
12 years! (more like 8 now).
Was it OK when Biden had the beaners flown in the middle of the night to undisclosed locations? Like here in Cheyenne wyo? Where was your outrage then? This is nothing new and if you believe in open borders you won't mind if they come to your house.
You must be new here
You're not wrong, but OBL is a parody... or a prophecy... almost the same thing nowadays.
Can you provide a link to whatever you are talking about?
Not finding anything when I search for it, and I admit I don’t keep up with Cheyenne news.
You don’t have to explain what a “beaner” is. I know it’s a slur you are using for some racist reason.
20 second google search pulls up New York
He's using it to trigger the hypocrites. Gotcha!
as a #Resistance member I don’t make that claim lightly
Brilliant satire.
As a form of revenge, The island of Martha's Vinyard has flown 50 karens into Florida.
That'll teach 'em.
Oh, this comment section will be good. Gets popcorn ready...
Maybe DeSantis isn't all that bad, unlike say, Pritzker, Hochul, Whitmer, Walz, Murphy, and Newsom.
But he's no Polis.
Of course not. Polis is just dreamy to ENB and company.
Did you hear about the time Polis signed a bill allowing cities and counties to enact stricter (but not looser) gun regulations than the state imposes, and still managed to a glowing podcast profile for Reason.
He's a miracle worker.
u have to realize..with the Reason crew..they pretty much all live in Cosmo world...they all have liberal art degrees and have problems with basic critical thinking (this is why they hate Ron Paul types who often have hard science or engineering degrees...remember the asshole liberal art majors in your dorm. They were always up to 3am not studying but arguing on some societal problem while getting stoned..this is the Reason crew.)
Expect it...
If Ron DeSantis Is So Bad, Why Is Living in Florida So Good?
Maybe Ron DeSantis isn't so bad? Maybe he's only bad if you want Florida to turn into a third-world shithole where the solution to full garbage cans is to get rid of the garbage cans?
Equity requires all states becoming shitholes like blue ran cities.
Politics aside, based on what I've heard I'm honestly at a loss for why so many people willingly move there, particularly refugees from New York City. It's a fucking swamp through most of the state, so it's hot and humid as crap, the local wildlife is nasty, there's giant cockroaches and other bugs that fly at your face, the people in the urban areas are horrible drivers and mean as hell, while the people in the rural areas are horrible drivers and methed out of their minds, and the state is constantly smacked in the nuts by tornadoes.
If you're going to move to the southeast, why not somewhere like east Tennessee, where a lot of that shit exists but isn't nearly as bad in intensity?
Sorry, meant to say hurricanes, not tornadoes.
Knoxville is a good place to live and the outlying areas around it seem even better. Housing is reasonable, taxes are low and no income tax. 2nd Amendment is a way of life for Tennesseans. A relative of mine moved there and said that the motto "The Volunteer State" seems to be true of the attitude of Tennesseans in that area.
Hopefully, it will stay that way for a while.
Not likely. Nashville is growing too fast, like Austin.
You mean it's filling up with liberal New Yawkers the way Austin filled up with liberal Californians.
Despite all of the negatives you cite, people are flooding into the state especially from blue enclaves. One might conclude that net inflows are happening specifically because of the political/economic climate, i.e. BECAUSE Desantis is so GREAT.
Desantis is going to be a great president. The only question is whether the US can withstand Biden's corruption and ineptitude.
Or because the East Coast Baby Boomers are retiring and they think that living in Florida beats living in Arizona.
If I were a conservatjve, I would worry about all those northeasterners moving in.
no no no..no NYC bolshies in Knoxville please. Stay in NYC...there are plenty of red diapers and Ukraine flags there. And no one in East TN know who Trotsky was or cares about what the Czar. Do NOT come.
There are some nice spots, but I'm sure as hell not telling you where. Call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye.
It's actually got a good climate, the drivers in FL have nothing on drivers in the NE, the cockroaches are mostly outside the home rather than in it along with the rats.
And you only get the occasional coed murder spree instead of a constant stream of whackjobs taking axes to McDonald's.
I've lived both in Florida (coast and inland) and Connecticut. Florida is miles better. Like, it's not even a choice.
There aren't drugged out wackjobs lining the trash filled streets too.
Apparently you've never been there. Most of Florida is high at any given time. At least 60% of "Florida Man" stories start with drugs (usually meth).
If you want to see drugged out whackjobs lining trash filled streets, go to San Francisco.
To be fair, a lot of the shitty driving is in Orlando and a lot of that is tourists who don't know where the hell they are going and think thay it's possible to drive anywhere there without taking a toll road (hahahahaha!).
"headlined the third National Conservatism Conference, where he emphasized that the state should punish and reward businesses and individuals based on political positions."
That's now what he said and it's a poor equivalency of what he said. However, this type of governing is 100% what Democrats do when in power. Biden admin does this shit, crickets from Reason. (Has Reason ever written an article about the Feds flying illegal immigrants across the country?) DeSantis does it and we get bombarded with multiple articles.
This is why the commenters hate on Reason Editors so often. They're clearing carrying water for Team Blue. (Of course, it's because they're all progressives, not Libertarians...)
I mean, I get frustrated so often because I swear there was a time that the analysis was a little more in-depth.
And from a libertarian perspective.
All that ended as Gillespie moved out and KMW and the new crew moved in.
Before it was all white men - and you know how we are
Progressitarians?
Movementarians.
Bowel?
After Reason moved its offices to Washington DC they seem to suffer from progressive osmosis. The environment of left-progressive fumes seem to permeate the people who live there. All that can be heard, or rather sensed, is anti-Trump, anti-Republican, anti-fossil fuel, pro ESG, pro SEL, climate change is killing us, racism is getting worse every day, Jan 6 was the worst thing ever, etc etc etc.
It requires principles to resist the continual bombardment of all of your senses with an unending deluge of progressive dogma. Most people at Reason are infected with post-modern "there are no universal ethical principles" so there are no principles with which to resist the daily dose of BS.
A scale of values based on ethical principles allow you to judge Biden, Trump and DeSantis by the same standard and enable you evaluate each one's threat to your liberty. Without principles, you just drift along with the mob.
What are you talking about? The blog post above merely announces a debate.
Both sides!
Years ago - 1980’s - on Jupiter island FL visiting for Christmas. There was a harassing fellow hanging out in front of the house. Quite drunk, but not driving.
The long and the short of it was, the cops knew him and if he bothered us, Fl was a state in which you shoot the perp, kick your door in, and drag him over the threshold.
Happy that we could, but sad if we had too.
I don't understand the point of your story. Was the homeless fellow was Ron DeSantis?
Close. Charlie Crist.
Crist is one of the few good orange people.
Crist makes an orange look smart.
Man, Crist seems like that school teacher you avoided when you were in middle school.
There's like 10 million Florida Men out there, what are the odds that Duelles met the most famous one?
Should have invited Charles Cooke to the discussion. I know you interviewed him once before, he'd hopefully have been game.
Even if you go with the most Democrat talking point version of DeSantis, the reality is that a governor who is generally supportive of limited government can be a total buffoon and still do well because the success of their state is rightfully delegated to the free people and not the government.
Big L Libertarians ought to remember this every time they make the "Republicans are just as bad as Democrats" argument. Only one of these parties is relatively anti government. Pro tip: it isn't the Democrats.
Pro tip: it isn't the Democrats.
That's not even a Pro tip. It's more of a retarded child actor tip.
"Only one of these parties is relatively anti government."
Relative to the other party? Sure.
Let us know when they start reducing federal spending and the military industrial complex.
You realize that if you decisively eliminate the worse party and the better party becomes worse, you can eliminate them too, right? Even mix in an *even better* party once you eliminate the worse one. Even if you don't explicitly change the actual parties, it would be nowhere near the first time in history, American or other, such a thing has happened.
I suppose you're right. I don't have much hope the natcons will succeed in eliminating the left though. I fear we'll end up with 2 parties that are both worse.
That too. The best parts of Natconism could die on the hill against Progressivism. Still, a big part of the reason why Reason's "bowf sidez!" and "Muh privut korpurashunz!" rhetoric is so tiresome, is the simplistic, unprincipled ideological rigidity.
"end up with"?
We're already there. The GOP hates individual rights, free speech, and fiscal responsibility. The Dems hate free speech, fiscal responsibility, and (slightly less than the GOP) individual rights.
If you're looking for someone who won't weaponize the government to punish those who stand up against them, Ron DeSantis is the worst choice possible. But it's not that far until you hit most other Republicrats or Democans.
Start by excising the worst offenders when it comes to using government power to punish political opponents (Ron DeSantis, for example) and work back towards the middle.
I don’t want anti-government. I’m not an anarchist. I want small, competent, adults-in-the-room, liberty respecting government.
Still in no way even remotely applies to Democrats.
True, but these days it applies even less to Republicans. Both have figured out that they don't have to support freedom and liberty to winelections, just point atbthe other guys and say, "But they're worse!".
You mean adults-in-the-room like what the Biden admin was supposed to be after Trump? I literally cannot laugh loudly enough. Maybe crying works better.
Marginal improvement is at least heading in the right direction. But we were is such a transactional/long-con place with Trump that anytbing would be better.
I'm guessing the conversation will go this way as well, but the governor is not the only, or even most significant factor in determining lifestyle. I'm presuming this is the punchline because this is a libertarian magazine.
He banned slavery in the state. If a corporation wants to enslave people...
Then it would just be a business decision
Is it time yet to admit cosmopolitan libertarian uber alles isn't working?
What are you talking about? The fact that California is an unlivable shit-hole, while everyone wants to move to Florida is pure coincidence. Nothing to do with who is in charge.
Florida is only livable because of air conditioning. Once the Green Agenda has destroyed energy infrastructure, only the super rich will be able to afford it.
Hence why the Pelosi's plan to retire in Florida.
If Pelosi lives another 70 or 80 years to get old enough to retire from Congress...
What is it with you people that can't function if the temperature gets above 80?
/Andrew Cuomo has left the chat
"No governor is more cheered and hated right now than Florida Republican Ron DeSantis"
The only people who hate DeSantis are the same left wing Democrats and media propagandists who spent their past 5 years extolling their hatred for Donald Trump, who was the best (and most libertarian) president in my lifetime.
The only reason why left wing Democrats hate DeSantis is because they know he can win the presidency in 2024, which is the same reason why they've hated Trump since 2016.
Since nearly all left wing Biden/Democrat policies have been disastrous (although legalizing weed and abortion are beneficial),
the only way Democrats can win elections in November is to lie about, demonize, persecute and prosecute effective Republicans.
The good news is that DeSantis appears to be even more libertarian than Donald Trump.
Legalizing abortion is not beneficial to unborn individuals.
Thanks. I was about to mention that.
Imagine if we had legal abortion up to 40 years old. Would anyone say that was a beneficial law…
Can we limit that to Democrats? They're pro-abortion, right?
Legalizing abortion has not only benefitted millions of born individuals (i.e. especially women who didn't want a child), but has also greatly benefitted society (as unwanted fatherless children are far more likely to drop out of school, commit crimes, be unemployed and in poverty than are children with two loving parents).
You: "This baby, under these circumstances, is going to be a criminal when he grows up, so we'll execute him now".
That's not beneficial. Repent, Bill.
The Dems loved Trump in 2016, because they thought he was unelectable but could win the Republican primaries.
DeSantis is not playing the "woke game" either which is making liberal's heads explode. Same with the trans for children nonsense.
Liberals hate him more so than their hatred for Trump. Let them hate away.
^This
Controversial? Only in the sense that he is a republican.
And, in the similar vein, where he's not controversial, i.e. "No one should be sexually grooming K-3rd graders in school. Especially without their parent's knowledge.", they will do their best to make him seem controversial, i.e. "He's going to prevent every teacher and student in the State from even using the word 'Gay'!"
Shackford is still crying in his sleep about this.
“No one should be sexually grooming K-3rd graders in school. Especially without their parent’s knowledge.”
No one is. This is one of the more disturbing falsities perpetrated by cultural conservatives.
“He’s going to prevent every teacher and student in the State from even using the word ‘Gay’!”
"Classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity may not occur in kindergarten through grade 3 or in a manner that is not age appropriate or developmentally appropriate for students in accordance with state standards."
So, for all intents and purposes, don't say gay. Or the parents who believe that religious leaders aren't engaged in a coordinated effort to protect child molesters who groom children (but teachers are) will come for you, your family, your friends, and your school board representatives.
There's nothing like an angry, threatening mob to show that your beliefs are valid.
And they're currently shaping the narrative so that if DeSantis wins, he'll be worse than Trump.
DoSantis will be divisive. That will be the talking point.
Well, DeSantis won't be a uniter like Joe Biden.
Much uniting, so good.
after the company criticized his stance on gay rights
Fuck You, Nick. There is no Right to Use The Public School System To Sexually Groom Children, straight, gay, or otherwise.
Co-signed. Fuck off Nick.
Best I can do is an Amen
No one is doing that. It's a delusional belief.
This is absurd. The President of the United States gives a speech flanked by armed Marines calling half the country domestic terrorists and the reaction from the Reason cosmotarians is "Meh, just campaign theatrics". DeSantis suggests that maybe conservatives ought to push back to make things more like they want and "OMG!!! Retaliatory Culture Warrior!!!". Well, here's a thought, retaliation is, by definition, a response to an initial aggression. If you're the one initiating aggression, you aren't retaliating. You're simply aggressing. So, if DeSantis is a "Retaliatory Culture Warrior", maybe Nick's progressive buddies are Aggressive Culture Warriors. And maybe libertarians, who at least ostensibly believe in the Non-Aggression Principle, might have more of a problem with the sociopaths initiating aggression.
Nick is a "screw Nixon" left libertarian. He is the only authentic libertarian they have. Not sure how the libertarian movement could have been cooped and identified with right wing extremism when the farthest to the right reason gets is Nick.
Surely there is someone to the right in the pipeline?
You can’t be left-wing and libertarian at the same time.
DeSantis suggests that maybe conservatives ought to push back to make things more like they want
And even then "like they want" is exceedingly differential. It's like saying a rape victim pushing back that her attacker use a condom and some lube is making things more like she wants.
Most reasoned response of them all. Thanks.
DeSantis is not controversial.
He is successful. That made him a target.
He is "controversial" in the same way that Rand Paul became controversial when he started making headway and getting attention. Suddenly he was getting hit pieces everywhere.
DeeSantis is controversial because he tried to stop New Yorkers from escaping COVID in mass numbers in the early days of the pandemic. Florida had contained their outbreak. But New York didn't. And thousands of people fled the hot zone to come south. Cuomo cried foul and a media narrative was born.
Then Cuomo became the Poster boy for Cuomosexuals. They pushed him, and to do so had to lie about Florida and DeSantis.... You know, since DeSantis had kept beaches mostly open and avoided killing everyone in nursing homes and ordered a bunch of tests when other governors didn't, etc.... While Cuomo both killed the nursing home patients *and* the economy with excessive lockdowns.
That is what made DeSantis a presidential candidate... Cuomo picked the fight and looked small and incompetent by comparison, despite Joy Beyhar wanting to have his babies live on air. And since they were actively considering dumping Biden and drafting Cuomo... DeSantis became their favorite target.
Nobody in Florida finds him controversial. I live in deep Democrat territory, and people are less likely to talk him down than Biden. This is 60/40 or 70/30 territory for the Dems.. and people like DeSantis enough that the ideologues keep it to themselves.
I don't think Nick is satisfied with that explanation. He's terrible, it has Been Declared So.
I don't understand why Charlie Christ is only polling several percentage points behind DeSantis.
Seems like the overwhelming majority of Democrats religiously vote for Democrats (even when their state is booming under Republican leadership).
Also seems like most Trump haters remain in denial of his many excellent accomplishments, even while Democrats, the FBI and left wing media propagandists were falsely accusing, impeaching and persecuting Trump (and now his supporters).
A very reasonable sounding explanation I've gotten on why Florida is so well run is that it's consistently Republican, but not dominantly so. DeSantis won last time by a narrow margin, and much of the state tends to be decided by narrow margin.
This puts the Republicans in a situation where they win, but also have to actually compete and thus helps curb many of the excesses of one-party politics.
We can see a similar version of this play out in Massachusetts, which is very Democratic, but has a politically active polis and a Republican Governor.
But, I dunno.
"...Seems like the overwhelming majority of Democrats religiously vote for Democrats (even when their state is booming under Republican leadership)..."
Reminds me of 2020.
"despite Joy Beyhar wanting to have his babies live on air."
My goodness, could one even conceive the anti-ratings had that aired?
An 80 year old woman giving birth on TV? That would have Moon Landing ratings.
whoopi was spotted floating in the water off Jupiter....people thought it was a whale.
He is "controversial" in the same way that Rand Paul became controversial when he started making headway and getting attention. Suddenly he was getting hit pieces everywhere.
Literally, in one instance.
I live in Florida and we are doing great!
DeSantis has been an excellent governor.
He is a shoo in to beat whoever the Democratic nominee is in 2024.
I really hope that Trump does not run in 2024, as that is enough to galvanize the opposition
I hope Trump does run, and picks DeSantis for VP. DeSantis can succeed Trump, and then we get 12 years of exploding liberal heads.
If covid doesn't kill everyone again.
Not just the extra years, but watching progressive continue their TDS meltdown, priceless.
All the democrats have to do is run with s Biden/Fetterman ticket which is a no brainer.
Hello and goodnight everyone.
DeSantis generally good on small gov policies, but went too far telling independent companies (Cruise Lines) they can't COVID test. If they want, they can require me to wear a tutu before letting me on their boat.
The cruise lines were being forced to test by the feds...
And not just American Feds.
And yet a baker has to bake the cake. One of these these things is not like the other...
Controversially [...] banned mask mandates in public schools, and issued an executive order prohibiting businesses from requiring proof of vaccination from customers.
I'm going to assume that the preeminent, leading libertarian publication doesn't find these two things particularly controversial.
They believe in corporate rights at the behest of government, not individual rights.
Well, Reason Editors take their queue from Democrats, so anything that is inconsistent from how Gov Cuomo operates is controversial, apparently.
Is reason learning that when your modeled does not match you measured something is wrong?
Haha I kid if that were true sullum, ENB, Fiona, and Baily would have been canned by now
It means the measured is wrong, and needs reinterpreting.
PhD in climate change?
You get the "One Liner of the Day" award.
Controversially [...] banned mask mandates in public schools, and issued an executive order prohibiting businesses from requiring proof of vaccination from customers.
Aren't libertarians supposed to support that stuff?
Not if Republicans do it!
Can you imagine the tongue bath Reason would have given to a Democrat Governor who was as pro liberty during the pandemic as DiSantis and Noem were? It would have been epic. As you say though, when a Republican does it, it is different.
Libertarians are supposed to support the government forcing businesses conduct hygiene practices in a state-approved way?
What else do libertarians think government should force businesses to do?
Yeah. Libertarians are supposed to be for freedom and that is not consistent with the sort of corporate fascism people like you want.
Fantastic. Corporate authoritarianism is the primary target for destruction of communists everywhere. Soon you'll learn of the benefits of forcing corporations to pay higher wages.
A communist-libertarian alliance for big government. Makes about as much sense as anything else going on.
It really sucks when libertarians act like democrats, doesn't it?
Democrats never wanted to use the state to force businesses to adopt lax hygiene measures during a pandemic or dictate what media companies are allowed to publish.
If big government is your enemy, your enemy is you. Someone else's alleged hypocrisy doesn't change what you are.
Tony: Democrats never wanted to use the state to force businesses to adopt lax hygiene measures during a pandemic or dictate what media companies are allowed to publish.
Tony: Oh, they're not pressuring nearly hard enough. If I had my way, social media would be regulated so strictly it would be reduced to cat videos and wedding registries (with strong content moderation).
Do you realize what a thoughtless partisan you are, or do you really believe you go around thinking about good ideas and then applying them to the world?
Maybe you're not dishonest. Maybe you have brain damage, some sort of dissociative disorder, or you only comment when you're really baked. I don't know. But you're so detached from reality that your comments take nonsense to a whole new level.
What else do libertarians think government should force businesses to do?
Serve negroes at the lunch counter.
It doesn't cause you to be even a little wistful to think you've thrown in the garbage decades of strict ideological pushback on civil rights excesses and other restrictions on private businesses... all for the sake of securing a civil right to spread disease, even on other people's property?
Doesn't give you even a little pause?
Keep in mind I'll remind you of this the next time you bitch about something actually sensible I think government should force businesses to do.
Does it give you a little pause that you suddenly discovered corporations really are people who have first amendment rights, and money really is speech, after spending more than a decade insisting the opposite?
If all it takes is an (R) behind the name of the person to get you to completely switch your ideas, then I guess your ideas weren't really that valuable.
But I'm not ideological on any of that. If we're in the middle of a deadly pandemic, I'm for whatever measures must be taken to stop the spread of disease, whether they come from government or private business.
It's just a fact that the first amendment is implicated here only because the state is trying to tell private actors what to say and think. The first amendment restricts government, and I think that's what makes it good. If you want to use it as toilet tissue, you can defend that all on your own.
Forcing private businesses to adopt laxer hygiene measures than they want doesn't come from any principle, it's simply insane.
I believe you really believe this. Now that Ron DeSantis is the enemy, you have to hate what he's doing. Suddenly, you interpret the constitution in a completely different way than you did with Citizens United. Now, corporations are people, with first amendment rights, and the government can't intervene. They need to be, because DeSantis has to be wrong, even though it completely contradicts your position on what was apparently so hugely an important decision that leftists were hoping to amend the constitution to take this first amendment right away from corporations.
You're like the sheep in the Animal Farm. "Baaaaaa!"
You're the one defending a politician despite his ostentatiously fascistic policy moves, even when they contradict your supposed principles or themselves. I am happy and comfortable in my worldview. You're making up a story about my hypocrisy as if that gives you license to be a brownshirt. I don't worship any politician. You should try that. You're supposed to hate big government after all.
I don't have to believe that corporations are people to oppose the government writing a law that restricts corporate speech. I don't have to support the idea that money is equivalent to speech before I support free speech. My beliefs are consistent. They are rational. Yours are the ones that need serious work.
Your beliefs are completely inconsistent. You agree with all the ways corporations should be limited in their speech, as long as they are ways democrats want to limit corporate speech. You only oppose limitations on corporate free speech if they're in any way associated with republicans.
Your beliefs are completely inconsistent and rational, insofar as they're based on ideas outside of partisanship.
When your beliefs are consistent and rational only threw the lens of partisanship, then you're a partisan. This isn't hard.
I'm okay with limits to corporate speech if it involves things like fraud and coercion. I'd go as far as to put warning labels on FOX News. I'm for regulating libel and fraud, just as law has always done, for everyone.
Republicans are banning books about gay people because they are bigoted religious freaks. The founders' entire project was to prevent people like them from doing their worst.
You're making up a story about my hypocrisy as if that gives you license to be a brownshirt.
Except you think anything the Right does is fascist, regardless of the time it took place, so this is hardly a rebuttal. It's just that your side doesn't like the taste of your own medicine.
I don't have to believe that corporations are people to oppose the government writing a law that restricts corporate speech.
Except you don't actually support that when it benefits your side, only when it hurts it. That's fine, but don't be surprised when your enemies decide to give it right back to you.
Questions of hypocrisy aren't really the issue, since your side will justify anything you do or say regardless of whether it meets an actual principle or not. The only way to crush an unprincipled movement is to be equally unprincipled in response, since the former will use the principles of the latter to hamstring and degrade their oppositional efforts.
Don't blame us for this--you set the house rules, now you're going to get them shoved down your throat until you choke on them.
The pipeline from Tony's mouth to his anus is something like 8" schedule 40 pvc pipe...and open straight thru. He doesn't vomit shit, he just farts when he's getting fucked and it spews from his mouth.
Putting individuals above government backed corporations is in fact libertarian.
"I believe you really believe this..."
Agreed. This isn't shitbag being clever, it's shitbag being an ignoramus.
But I'm not ideological on any of that. If we're in the middle of a deadly pandemic, I'm for whatever measures must be taken to stop the spread of disease, whether they come from government or private business.
Shorter Tony, I will use any rationalization the Democrats give me to justify whatever the party line happens to be.
Unlike all these self-styled rigid ideologues, I actually have consistent and rational beliefs. Democrats align with many of them, which is not so surprising since they are still a political party that is constrained by an evidence-based worldview. The evidence is the same for all of us.
"Just believe whatever the democrat party tells me to this time no matter what we believed 5 minutes ago" isn't consistent or rational.
But that's not what I'm doing or they are doing.
Ok, please explain how corporations have first amendment rights even though they're not people.
But that's not what I'm doing or they are doing.
Yeah, it is.
Well, the fact is, DeSantis's laws will have to go through the courts before they are found to violate the first amendment. The Stop WOKE Act was blocked last month on those grounds. You can look up the judgment if you like.
He has used the government to intimidate and punish businesses and universities over the content of the speech of the people who work there. I'm not the one who needs to explain why this is bad. I think it would be bad even absent the first amendment. You need to explain why it's good actually.
I don't need to explain why it's bad, because I support free speech.
You're the one who has to explain how corporations don't have free speech rights unless Ron DeSantis is the one doing the regulating.
The fact is, a single stay does not a movement stop, and this is just the beginning.
Your side uses the government and its own private actors to punish and intimidate businesses over the content of speech of the people who work there. Sure, it's bad, but since your side employs it, our side is going to do that now, too. And you're full of shit that you think it would be bad outside the First Amendment, because you believe in "no bad tactics, just bad targets."
You need to explain why it's good actually.
The question of morality is irrelevant. Your side does it, so now you're going to get it back. Toleration of movements from the Right, intoleration of movements from the Left. It's just taken a little over 50 years to realize that there's no living with someone who exercises such a political double standard, and that you won't stop until you're either forced to do so, or chased out.
But you're just spewing fascist horseshit now. No, my side doesn't use the government to punish people for their speech. Sorry. No equivalence. Republicans are fascists and Democrats technocratic liberal capitalists. I didn't make it that way, that's just the way it is.
Or maybe it's just that Democrats have discovered what's on the internet beyond Facebook meme feeds, and we realize it's hopeless to ban children's books in the face of that.
But you’re just spewing fascist horseshit now. No, my side doesn’t use the government to punish people for their speech. Sorry. No equivalence.
This is not true. Plenty of individuals and companies were punished for refusing to follow the left's ideological policies, such as lockdowns.
Republicans are fascists and Democrats technocratic liberal capitalists. I didn’t make it that way, that’s just the way it is.
You are lying. Democrats support heavily regulation and pressures large companies to follow their orders in censoring dissenting voices. Republicans do no such thing.
Or maybe it’s just that Democrats have discovered what’s on the internet beyond Facebook meme feeds, and we realize it’s hopeless to ban children’s books in the face of that.
Dr. Seuss and his banned books would like to have a word with you.
How many lies has the CDC walked back now?
Even when the pandemic is based on lies.
Angry old white man longs for the days when the colored people knew their place.
Sad, just sad
You think the baker should bake the cake. Nuff said.
This is a reminder that the "Libertarian" publication Reason doesn't actually understand libertarianism.
They live off of an inside-the-beltway version of libertarianism that views the progressive social agenda as a preferable outcome to whatever traditionalist/small-gov conservative Christians believe. The only difference for Reason libertarianism and full on progressivism is they think this progressive world view can be had while we simultaneously lower taxes and regulations and decriminalize weed.
Banning books, forcing private businesses to speak and act in a state-approved way, ginning up state-sanctioned culture war tensions for the sake of his own political career...
Sounds libertarian to me, but I've been defining libertarians as undereducated authoritarian Jesus freaks for years.
Banning books, forcing private businesses to speak and act in a state-approved way, ginning up state-sanctioned culture war tensions for the sake of his own political career...
You have described the Democrat party
Democrats are doing none of those things, unless you count abortion, which does have the quality of currently affecting millions of people's most personal freedoms.
I'm assuming you're equally furious at the EU for their restrictive stances on abortion in the member states?
Who said I was furious? Samuel Alito singlehandedly made it possible for Democrats to win the House in the midterms.
Europe largely allows abortion in the first trimester for any reason and after the first trimester for health, birth defects, age of mother, rape or incest, and so forth.
Republicans are currently passing laws that send women to prison for murder if they get abortions. Is that what's happening in Europe?
Because right now they can get their corporate donors to do it by proxy.
Look to Europe, that social Democratic paradise to see where we’ll be on all of those fronts in a few years.
Hey Tony the turd face stop the banning books shit; no books have been banned. What has been stopped if forcing tax payers to pay for books in public school libraries that advocate grooming kids to be forced to get fucked in the ass with no lube.
One of the libturds biggest failures is not realizing parents pay taxes to support schools and have a vested stake what is taught in schools; not to mention keeping schools open when the teacher's union wants to shut them down. What ever anyone things about DeSantis he has a good feel for the pulse of the majority of voters in Florida (and probably the US as well).
To Tony:
Books banned: Dr. Seuss, nuff said.
Forcing private businesses to speak and act in a state approved way: Bake the Cake.
Ginning up state-sanctioned culture war tensions: George Floyd riots.
Literally no book has been banned by Republicans.
Are you incapable of writing anything that isn’t a straight up lie?
At this point, the collective, unending freakout over Heavy D makes me certain he will be our next president.
Even if he's charged with human trafficking?
Especially if he is charged with human trafficking lol
All the better to make him a martyr, I guess.
What good do you think will come from turning America into another shitshow with a clownish strongman? Which one of those is working out?
Yeah, we better charge a political opponent with human trafficking because he bought 50 migrants bus tickets, lest we become an authoritarian shit show. That makes perfect sense... if you have no sense.
So shouldn't you be mad at him for spending taxpayer money to give possible criminal migrants a free trip to a lovely vacation destination?
Or is whatever any Republican does always good all of the time?
So shouldn't you be mad at him for spending taxpayer money to give possible criminal migrants a free trip to a lovely vacation destination?
No, so why is your side so ass-mad about it?
So shouldn't you be mad at him for spending taxpayer money to give possible criminal migrants a free trip to a lovely vacation destination?
Liberating tolerance means intoleration of movements from the Right, and intoleration of movements from the Left.
They're not mad at anything other than a politician treating humans like dogshit.
And the libertarians are making excuses for this politician.
They're not mad at anything other than a politician treating humans like dogshit.
That's not what they're mad at. They're mad that their meat shield decided to drop the guard for a little bit.
And the libertarians are making excuses for this politician.
No one is making excuses for him at all. We're simply pointing out that this is the result of your own ideology of repressive tolerance coming back to bite you in the ass.
The treatment of refugees is governed under international law...
Like we should give a shit about international anything.
Lol then why don't you freaks stay in your hollers and govern yourselves there. Stop trying to take over states and countries.
Lol then why don't you freaks stay in your hollers and govern yourselves there. Stop trying to take over states and countries.
Lol then why don't you mentally ill freaks stay in your behavioral sinks and govern yourselves there. Stop trying to take over states and countries.
By international law, if they’re refugees then there’s a few countries they passed through that should have taken them in. Oopsies.
I’m glad to see you’re just as pissed at the people of Martha’s Vineyard as we are! Can you believe they asked the military to relocate those poor souls from a church?
The point is that "spending taxpayer money to give possible criminal migrants a free trip to a lovely vacation destination" equals "human trafficking" when your political party is a bunch of authoritarian despots who want to use the judicial system to throw political opponents in prison, just as they do in authoritarian shit shows.
Heads of state go to prison all the time for legitimate reasons.
You're the one who wants to blow a giant hole in the very concept of equal justice under law in order to protect a former head of state from prosecution for his crimes.
Trump stole top secret government documents then lied about it after having been impeached once for essentially treason and a second time for treason that happened live on CNN.
Heads of state go to prison all the time for legitimate reasons.
Yes, truisms are true all the time. However, again, you're the one who wants to throw your political opponents in jail under the excuse of "human trafficking" for buying 50 migrants bus tickets to a wonderful vacation spot.
And you're only excuse is whataboutism about Trump. Nevermind the biggest whataboutism for Trump is the Hillary Clinton document scandal, and wanting to "lock her up!" That's the real whataboutism, but you can't even go there, because your side wants to be on the "lock him up!" side now.
I'm consistent: I just want you democrats to make up your mind about what's good and what's bad, instead of changing your mind every time a (D) or an (R) shows up after someone's name. And you have a problem with that, because all you understand is "DDDDDDDDDDDDDD!"
Hillary Clinton did not steal any classified documents, and she was thoroughly investigated to such an egregious extent that she lost an election over the matter of her doing nothing wrong.
I am consistent. You haven't explained why I'm not consistent. You've just said it... as you defended everything a politician does to hurt people no matter what it is.
I think Republicans should go to prison when they are criminals. They are all over media every day explaining why they disrespect the law so much they won't even acknowledge the outcome of elections, so it's hardly a surprise that so many of them are criminals. That's before we even get into how many of them fuck children.
You want Republicans to go to prison so badly that you're willing to pretend that "buying 50 people bus tickets to a vacation spot" equals "human trafficking", all while you wring your hands about "authoritarian shitshows." That's completely inconsistent.
Tony. They found more on her servers and emails than Trump had. On her server. Including instructions of her telling her team to remove markings.
How do you lie so openly?
From the group of 30,000 e-mails returned to the State Department, 110 e-mails in 52 e-mail chains have been determined by the owning agency to contain classified information at the time they were sent or received. Eight of those chains contained information that was Top Secret at the time they were sent; 36 chains contained Secret information at the time; and eight contained Confidential information, which is the lowest level of classification. Separate from those, about 2,000 additional e-mails were “up-classified” to make them Confidential; the information in those had not been classified at the time the e-mails were sent.
https://www.fbi.gov/news/press-releases/press-releases/statement-by-fbi-director-james-b-comey-on-the-investigation-of-secretary-hillary-clinton2019s-use-of-a-personal-e-mail-system
“Hillary Clinton did not steal any classified documents, and she was thoroughly investigated to such an egregious extent that she lost an election over the matter of her doing nothing wrong.”
Tony is partisan enough he might actually believe that.
Your error here, as far as libertarianism goes, is being for whatever needs to be done to stop the spread of the disease. Kill the unvaccinated? Imprison immigrants? Napalm migrant caravans? Seize your property? Or, God forbid, ban marijuana!?!
Taxpayer money was being spent on them anyways. Were you unaware?
lol
It's amazing to watch the delusions of the left.
NOT locking down your state and NOT forcing vax = "strongman"
You statist fascists are all the same
oh and let me guess. "directing public schools on what to teach" is somehow fascism even thought that is literally the job of the government and every state government does so with a FIRM HAND. See Sacramento in case you actually know nothing about how public schools work.
. amazing logic from the shitlibs all around.
Libs are always every time shown to be team-focused unprincipled hypocrites as soon as you flip the teams or the circumstances.
This shitlib calling DeSantis a strong man is fully on board with banning teaching the BIble in school and is a big fan of the Scopes trial outcome.
Every time with these useful idiot shitlibs. amazing
It's the forcing private businesses to do things, not for any rational reason mind you, but as yet another infantile political stunt at the cost of untold thousands of lives.
Liberating tolerance means toleration of movements from the Right, and intoleration of movements from the Left. Consequently, true pacification requires the withdrawal of tolerance before the deed, at the stage of communication in word, print, and picture.
Are you employing Marcuse, except inverting him, to defend DeSantis, or critiquing Democrats as if you mistakenly believe they have adopted Marcuse?
All I said is that the government should not force private actors to say things against their will. It's pretty basic first amendment stuff.
Public school teachers are not private actors. I can't imagine how disingenuous or stupid one must be to promulgate such a theory.
Twitter is.
Ask Berenson and his settlement w Twitter.
Twitter is NOT a private actor anymore. They literally were just exposed for collaborating with the government to censor the regime's enemies.
You can't possibly be this confused and ignorant Tony. I can only assume you are running cover for the regime
What's wrong with adopting your side's methodology? After all, he liked to use the phrase "clear and present danger" just like President Pudding Brain is doing.
This isn't anything more than you getting back what you're serving. Don't like it, tough shit. This is going to be the state of things for the foreseeable future until your side decides to drop that ethic.
They won’t, as Tony has shown multiple times in the past, they’ll just go full totalitarian and start lining people up against the wall.
Tony is just too much of a fucking pussy to be the one to pull the trigger.
Except for Bake the Cake
haha jesus christ. You really have literally no ability to think do you?
"forcing private businesses to do things"... coming from a shitlib as a criticism of Heavy D, it's just amazing to watch
Do they explain these things on FOX News, or do they just show photos of DeSantis in profile with a halo around his head?
No one here watches Fox, so why would we know?
still a Samantha Fox fan ...
Do you think the other major party might have some influence on why people might find DeSantis appealing?
If you're going to trot Biden or Harris out there in '24 you don't really get to blame Republicans for causing a shitshow.
Sorry, flag was accident.
Hmm. Maybe actual outcomes matter more to people than whatever silly shtick politicians spout.
Florida despite certain areas has always had a culture geared more toward conservatism. With no income tax, low taxes, and a friendly business environment, the people of Florida are a hell of a lot better at supporting these policies than say the people of CA.
It's because of this even their "bad" governors were never as bad as governors in other parts of the country. Hell, when I think of good Democratic politicians from the past the first ones that come to mind are Bob Graham and "Walkin" Lawton. You add in the long summers and beaches it's not really a surprise that people find it good to live in Florida. Also, the Democratic Party is now basically dead state-wide.
As for DeSantis himself. He proved to be an effective and good Governor pursuing limited government policies, particularly at a time when even a number of Republican Governors were embracing draconian COVID measures. This is something that should be praised by libertarians given our opposition to government overreach during times of panic. Love him or hate him he's doing his job well.
The Ol' He-Coon was a pretty underrated governor from what I've read about the guy.
He was a good Governor. So was Jeb for that matter, though I despised his brother at the time which colored my perception a bit. I left Florida about two years into Rick Scott's first term. I miss the low taxes, the food, and Publix. But I reeeally don't miss the humidity or the bugs.
"You add in the long summers..."
And you lost me. I want summer to be short as possible. I'm a big fan of zero insects for 7-8 months of the year. 🙂
Oh, I agree with you. Which is why I don't live there anymore, I hated the humidity. But my friends and family love it there, so I have to recognize that I'm in the minority and that a lot of people enjoy those "long summers." I do miss Publix and the seafood though, but I love autumn more. 🙂
If DeSantis is charged with human trafficking, then so does traitor Joe.
You say that like despite the flat out admission to extra-Presidential quid pro quo, the undeniable existence of the laptop, and the impeachment of FPOTUS for (not) engaging in a quid pro quo, anybody with any legal power has even glanced at bringing charges against any part of the administration.
Joe, if he could muster the required cognizance, could've phone up Desantis, told him to do the whole thing, put it on his personal credit card, and blew the whistle on Desantis, comfortable in the knowledge that even if the evidence proved beyond any shadow of any doubt that Joe was the mastermind, he wouldn't even face trial.
FL National Guard time.
"A live Reason discussion about how libertarians should think about the country's most controversial governor."
This says more about the idiocy of the left regarding Newsom than it says about DeSantis.
An hour and a half?
wtf
whoever did ORANGES MAN BAD! yesterday is still the winner that shit made me larf all day
????CHRISTrumpOwensDeSantis and all our US TRUMPlican Lawmakers successfully US 2022-2036 Reelected Landslide
Amen & Amen????
Uh, you okay there?
CHRISTrumpOwensDeSantis and all our US TRUMPlican Lawmakers successfully US 2022-2036 Reelected Landslide
Amen & Amen
Considering that Nick Gillespie is NOT a libertarian ... WHY THE FUCK should I listen to his punk ass???????
Forgive Gillespie. He's got a PhD in English, he can't help being what he is.
They are going after him HARD. It's very telling.
Yeah, he's the new "Literally Hitler," just like the last 10 who became the face of the party. It's not something to take at face value, and any efforts to #resist should be met with equal or greater #counterresistance.
So DeSantis issued some state level edicts protecting the freedom of individuals, and preventing corporations from exercising their own free decisions. Seems like Reason is in favor of national edicts protecting freedom from individual states all the time.
The question the title asked is flawed, Florida is not a good place to live. DeSantis is simply a headline seeker, not much of anything he does, solves any problem or makes any difference other than selling news papers ! No question his actions during Covid were good, but he became addicted to the glory. Action against Disney? Well nothing has been done so far and all is on hold till after the elections, if that doesn't say it all what will? Allowing what DeSantis claimed were "groomers" to remain teaching in the classrooms makes another big statement. Tricking felons into voting and then prosecuting them, again not a good deal for anyone.
"...DeSantis is simply a headline seeker, not much of anything he does, solves any problem or makes any difference other than selling news papers !..."
Yeah, keeping FL in business while Newsom killed the CA economy was just headline seeking.
Your TDS is obvious.
I don’t think it’s TDS, just run of the mill leftist smooth brain.
We're not the FDA/CDC and this ain't COVID: Longitudinal studies on the teratogenic effects of TDS are still ongoing.
Obviously you didn't read my comment. I gave him full credit for his handling of Covid. What he has done since is questionable. His half actions and violations of people rights are not something that should be found in a leader. We have a constitution, it can't be set aside anytime a politician doesn't like something.
You don't see tens of thousands of people leaving Florida like they do in California or New York.
... a successful large-state governor, the future of the Republican party, and, most likely, the next president... Fixed it for you. Of course he might be the next after Trump's second term (third election) but that's OK.
Living in Florida is only desirable if you're on blood thinners and you have to wear a sweater when the temperature drops to 75 degrees. If you've not lived a good life then you should move to Florida in your golden years to get acclimated to burning in hell.
Oh, yeah, and there are also alligators everywhere.
I would not want to live up north and deal with snow and cold, but Florida is a bit much.
Bitter much?
I’m sure like many others I’m mainly here to read what stupid “both sides bad” bullshit these mealy mouthed they/thems come up with about successful Republicans. If it’s going to be like this for the next candidate not-intent on destroying our country though I will never click another fucking index card of allowable opinion clickbait dingle that might drop out of the ass of what once might have been a serious outlet for libertarian thought.
1) The lockdowns and mandates are the most important issue in this generation, from a libertarian perspective, and frankly from any perspective. Is it your body or is it the government's body?!?!?!? This is NOT a matter of my rights ending where yours begin. This is a simple question of bodily autonomy. My right to go outside my own apartment is neither superior nor inferior to yours. I cannot, by going out, give you COVID, unless you ALSO go out, to the SAME place, at the SAME time. If you believe in "stay at home," then you can "stay at home." You have ZERO right to tell me whether, when or for what purpose I can take MY body outside MY apartment. Living in NY in 2020 and 2021 was like living in District 12. It was Orwellian. And don't forget that NY relaxed the restrictions ONLY because the people called BS, having seen that people were not dying in the streets in Miami. We'd still be in partial lockdown now. And there are STILL VACCINE MANDATES.
First, EVERYONE needed to show proof of vaccination AND ID (which the Democrats keep saying is racist, but apparently it's not racist when they need to see it) to do almost anything one wants to do in NYC. And there's STILL a mandate for B2C companies, even though the vaccine PREVENTS NEITHER INFECTION NOR TRANSMISSION. And the same Democrats have the audacity to complain today about "bodily autonomy" as a result of Dobbs!?!?!?!? Seriously!?!?!?!?!? You're a libertarian rag, supposedly. Nothing else rises to this level. This is a question of bodily autonomy - of freedom of movement. There are NOT two sides to this question. And while DeSantis (and Sweden, btw) proved that the powers that be had no idea what the were talking about, that actually is beside the point. Even if the numbers were higher for Florida, THAT WOULD NOT MATTER, BECAUSE ANYONE WHO SUPPORTED "STAY AT HOME" WAS FREE TO DO SO!!!! That means they're fully protected - unless staying at home doesn't work, which would be all the more reason to not enforce it!!!!
2) The "right" didn't start the culture war. And you're dealing in false equivalency. Much in the way that nobody is saying "one must take off the mask" or "one must remove the water-restricting thingy from one's showerhead" or "one must eat foie gras," almost nobody is saying, "people over 18 should not be allowed to transition." An ADULT should be able to live WHATEVER LIFESTYLE HE OR SHE WANTS. And, on his or her own dime, he should be allowed to pursue and purchase WHATEVER body-changing surgery he or she wants. Almost nobody disagrees with that, including conservatives. All we're saying is that if you're UNDER 18, you're not capable of consenting - to sex, or to a sex change, or to a tattoo, or to nicotine, or to alcohol, etc.... And we're saying that anyone OVER 18 who happens to be a State employee should NOT TALK TO OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN AGES 4-8 about sexuality. And we're saying that the REST of us should not be forced to PAY for your transition, or to play along with, or approve of, your lifestyle. We have something called freedom of association. I don't force you to go to Mass; don't try to force me to call you Suzy or refer to you as a woman, or as anything. You're free to not hang out with me.
3) CRT is not accurate. The schools already over allocate time to slavery and Jim Crow. So much happened during the 19th Century, like sound money versus silver, versus Greenbacks, that impacted far more people than 13.5% of the population. And it's not taught. The Industrial Revolution is paid little attention, and the attention paid to it is highly misleading. We do not need to spend even MORE time on "race," or to teach the FALSEHOOD that whatever your parents do for a living, it's because of their skin color. It's not. There is no "white privilege." There is a privileged class, and most of its members are white - we're talking WASPS whose ancestors came to the US in the 1600s and went to Harvard when it was the only college. Sticking it to, or shaming, the Irish descendants of mill workers and Union Army soldiers in the name of "equity," is absurd.
4) Everyone is a libertarian. But almost everyone is a libertarian only when it comes to what he wants to do.
5) “Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. And unselfishness is letting other people's lives alone, not interfering with them." - Oscar Wilde
6) Libertarians are not people who don't like to be told what to do. People are people who don't like to be told what to do. Libertarians ALSO don't tell OTHER people what to do.
7) 99% of people have the same ideology: "ban what I dislike and subsidize what I like." People just like and dislike different things.
8) Democrats' list of actionable likes and dislikes is many times longer than Republicans' list. When the GOP nominates a Bush, a McCain, or any other corrupt warmonger, it makes sense to vote Libertarian. Otherwise, it makes no sense, because the GOP are 90% libertarian. Most of them don't want to ban gay marriage, and most of them don't want abortion restrictions that Roe would not, arguably, allow. At some point, it IS another human life. That point is neither birth nor conception. So, is it 15 weeks or 25? Because no reasonable, thinking person can argue with 25. You've had plenty of time to think it over. It can live outside the womb. At 25 weeks, the buzzer has gone off - you need to just have it. At 15, that's too harsh. But we're going to blow it up over 10 weeks?!?!?!?
9) You need to spend less time focusing on individual "rights" and focusing on liberty. 99% of people who are walking around with signs that read "get your laws off my body" support NYC's employer vaccine mandate (which is still in effect), and supported the lockdowns. That is beyond hypocrisy - it is proof that "my body = my choice" is not their position. Their position is "everyone's body = President Snow's choice," and they simply cannot comprehend a situation in which they aren't President Snow. Nobody is an authoritarian - nobody supports the citizen as puppet and government as puppet master construct, without assuming that they or people like them will run the government - except a few people in Germany and Switzerland, and we saw how that played out.
10) Back to DeSantis. NEVER FORGET that, had it NOT BEEN for a TINY FEW courageous leaders, who RESISTED the temptation to "not let a crisis go to waste," and who RESISTED lockdowns and mandates, we would probably still be under at least a partial lockdown. The only data relied upon by officials who relaxed the lockdowns was POLLING data, not COVID data. MORE PEOPLE HAD COVID WHEN THE LOCKDOWNS WERE LIFTED THAN WHEN THE LOCKDOWNS WERE IMPOSED. And the polling data went the way it did because people called BS. And people called BS because they SAW WITH THEIR OWN EYES the examples of states that did NOT impose lockdowns, did NOT destroy jobs and businesses and life savings, and thrived.
BECAUSE OF THAT ISSUE ALONE, DeSantis is bulletproof IMO.
YES, Noem never imposed restrictions, while DeSantis relaxed them after a few months. DeSantis may not have done so without Noem paving the road. On the merits, Noem called it earlier. But Florida cannot be dismissed by the control freaks as a small, sparsely populated state. And that's why the Democrats hate him - even before the flights, CRT and the law that doesn't actually say "don't say gay." They hate him because he ruined their plan. They were going to gradually relax restrictions and try to convince us that they were "able to" do so "because" we had complied. He wrecked that. And we should be eternally grateful.
Much in the way that nobody is saying "one must take off the mask"
Sorry, but that is what some are saying.
https://www.fox13news.com/news/gov-desantis-tells-masked-students-at-tampa-press-conferece-please-take-those-off
DeSantis made it seem like a request, though calling it "ridiculous" is practically insulting any that chose to keep them on. And an aide took it farther. One of the students said later,
"The lady she pulled me over and told me to take my mask off or stand to the side, and I took it off for a second but when I got back up there I put it back on because I didn’t feel comfortable with it off," said Brown. "I feel more safe with the mask on and everybody in there had no masks on, so I thought I should probably wear one to protect myself and to protect them. It bothered me a little bit because I don’t see why she had to tell me to take my mask off. If I want to wear it, I should be able to wear it."
This is the pathetic piece of lefty shit who condones murder if it *might* prevent a prole from putting their feet on one of the gov't gods worshipped by this asshole:
JasonT20
February.6.2022 at 6:02 pm
“How many officers were there to stop Ashlee Babbitt and the dozens of people behind her from getting into the legislative chamber to do who knows what?...”
No surprise that this is an exceedingly retarded take.
At his press conference he (and his staff) have a right to ask people to remove masks or leave. If he lets them wear them, it's because he's polite.
Even the most rabid NatCon would recognize that if BLM put on an *actually peaceful* rally and some guys showed up with pointy white masks that cover their entire head, the BLM hosts have a right to ask them to remove the masks or leave.
Are you kidding? Why would it matter to anyone in that room whether someone else wears a mask? How is anyone else harmed by it?
The only reason the kid was asked to take off his mask was because Trump had made it seem like only pussies would wear one. That is why it became such a flashpoint. Legitimate scientific debate over whether they are effective was never the point. DeSantis, aka Trump-lite, therefore had to make a big deal of it, and he and his staff didn't want high schoolers wearing masks
at his campaign eventat his press conference announcing a cybersecurity training initiative at USF. They've invested too much into being anti-mask to have anyone wearing one in their photo-ops.Even the most rabid NatCon would recognize that if BLM put on an *actually peaceful* rally and some guys showed up with pointy white masks that cover their entire head, the BLM hosts have a right to ask them to remove the masks or leave.
Comparing the personal choice of a teenager to wear a surgical mask that worried about protecting other people in case he was infected, more than protecting himself*, to KKK members wearing their white hoods? Uh, wow. That is just a strange place to go with that analogy.
*In a video interview I saw shortly after this event, the teen and his father pointed out that they had a vulnerable relative living with them, so any extra protection to avoid becoming infected would be worth trying, even if it turns out that they don't do much.
Anyone feel like refuting him? It's getting late for me.
Are you kidding?
No. I'm not.
Why would it matter to anyone in that room whether someone else wears a mask?
Because fuck you, that's why. They rented the venue, the venue doesn't have a rule against what they're doing. You're their guest. They say take your mask off and leave your guns at the door you take your mask off and leave your guns at the door or you leave. You're making yourself look like a fucking retard for acting like this. All kinds of dance clubs, bars, art studios, concert venues, grocery stores, etc., etc., etc. have these operating policies in place.
Comparing the personal choice of a teenager to wear a surgical mask that worried about protecting other people in case he was infected, more than protecting himself*, to KKK members wearing their white hoods? Uh, wow. That is just a strange place to go with that analogy.
You really seem like you're acting aloof because you want to pretend it's OK for Klansmen to show up in masks at a BLM rally and, if they do, the BLM hosts should just respect their personal choice wear a mask. They aren't harmed by it.
Go ahead, tell me I'm being disingenuous, you white supremacist piece of shit.
Comparing the personal choice of a teenager to wear a surgical mask that worried about protecting other people in case he was infected, more than protecting himself*
So, concerned enough to wear a mask but not concerned about showing up at what would be a superspreader event? Again, it's very much like you're defending the personal choice of Klansmen wearing masks, to protect other members of the white race rather than protecting themselves, against people simply asking them to take them off.
Because fuck you, that’s why.
That sums up your position. The rest is superfluous babble.
If you remember what I was replying to, Patrick had claimed that no one was saying that you "must take off the mask." And here you are, saying that DeSantis had every right to tell people that they must take off the mask because it was his press conference at a venue he rented. Assuming he did "rent" the venue, how did he pay for it? He's the governor of a state. He is a servant of the people, spending taxpayer money, not a king. It is projection all the way down for people like you, isn't it? The left is full of authoritarians in your mind because you believe that the politicians you like should have that kind of power.
Let's see what the alternative reality might have been. Andrew Gillum came very close through typical Democrat Shenanigans. So we might have had a Gov who steps out on his wife with Male Prostitutes and came within a gnat's eylash of perishing from Drug abuse with one. He was a big star with the likes of Pelosi and Schumer, so I think Florida dodged a king-sized Bullet!
If the political system is good, so dedicated to unity, so successful at it, why has the country become more polarized every year for a half century? One side tells us, "We'll make America great again" while the other claims, "We built up American greatness". Then it gets elected, and has as its goal, "Build Back Better"? And, not one MSM political analyst points out the contradictions of both sides?
My god, this is a stupid comment.
If the political system . . . so dedicated to unity
It isn't dedicated to unity. It is deliberately designed to frustrate unity and prevent the concentration of power. It was designed with the understanding that people are flawed, greedy, and ambitious, and, even among intelligent, well-intentioned people acting with the best intentions, there will be good-faith differences of what the best policies are. It was set up explicitly to prevent action except where there is broad consensus.
why has the country become more polarized every year for a half century?
Many, many complex and interrelated reasons. Off the top of my head:
Mass media, left-wing overreach, social media, marxism in schools, rising housing and education prices, women in the workforce, the end of segregation, increasing attention to politics in general.
while the other claims, "We built up American greatness"
No it doesn't.
Then it gets elected, and has as its goal, "Build Back Better"?
You understand the difference between slogans and legislation, no?
He is just an opportunist who tries his very best to needlessly sow resentment between different groups of people in order to stay relevant. Culturally Florida is changing rapidly as most actual Floridians (like myself) are pretty libertarian in their outlook regarding culture and economics, with a live and let live attitude. DeSantis is turning Florida into an authoritarian paradise for right-wing boomer New Yorkers who have zero chill and are totally obsessed/consumed with Trump and want more than anything to be close to him. It has become really kooky (more so than usual for Florida) and is one of the reasons I have left the state and moved to more normal pastures.
DeSantis will probably win reelection, but part of me wonders if it may be closer than expected as he goes around the state ticking various groups of people off, from moderates and liberals who are irked by his embrace of anti-intellectual/toxic Trumpian politics, to libertarian leaning folks who dislike his authoritarian tendencies, to pro-business republicans who resent how his short-sighted battle with Disney has had pretty big $$$ implications for a number of projects in the Orlando area and may cause a huge tax burden to shift to the local municipalities by taking on the liabilities of Reedy Creek. He has ticked off the gays, who were at first hopeful that a young and optimistic republican governor who came to visit the Pulse nightclub in his first year in office might be different, but instead he has repeatedly called them groomers which implies they are sexual deviants and child molesters all at once, which is charming. He tried to make the case that drag queens in south beach are the root of all our problems while simultaneously not working to resolve the property insurance meltdown in the state which (really!) affects the pocketbooks every homeowner, nor has he tried to do anything meaningful to manage the severe housing affordability issues many Floridians must contend with daily. He has probably ticked off women with his threats of abortion bans, and now he has potentially ticked off the growing Venezuelan community in Florida with this latest nonsense in Martha's Vineyard.
But enough about Joe Biden.
If Florida does well because of any of DeSantis' policies, it is probably because he only does performative things in regards to immigration. Why fly asylum seekers in Texas to Martha's Vineyard? Why not relocate some of the estimated 800,000 illegal immigrants living in Florida?
The answer is that DeSantis, like just about all Florida politicians, is in the pocket of agriculture and tourist interests. (Just not Disney anymore. Of course, DeSantis didn't give back any of the half a million that Disney had donated to his PACs before they went 'woke'.) DeSantis and the GOP legislature made sure that a bill requiring employers to use E-Verify only applied to government employers. Because, you know, the Florida Department of Health would pay illegals under the table, if they could.
Florida businesses and voters (especially the retirees on fixed incomes) want to keep food cheap, hotels and restaurants affordable, and lawns mowed, so they vote for and donate to Republicans with the understanding that they won't actually do anything to keep them from hiring illegals. DeSantis and other Florida Republicans can talk tough all they want about 'securing the border' and keeping the
undesirablesillegal immigrants out, but they won't do anything to reduce the demand for their labor.Everyone around here harping about illegal immigrants are just talking tough and showing their prejudices unless they are willing to put their money where their mouths are and accept even higher food prices. That is what would happen after the undocumented immigrants that make up more than half of the farm labor force in this country aren't here anymore, and Big Ag has to pay much higher wages to Americans to do the jobs. And it will be the same in a lot of hospitality and service industry jobs.
So reward DeSantis for screaming about illegals in Texas while doing absolutely nothing about the ones actually in his state. Continue being distracted by this performative nonsense while he and the Florida GOP don't do shit to actually make life better for Floridians.
Anyone wanna take this guy on?
Let's do a little thought experiment:
What is your reaction when a politician loads illegal immigrants onto a plane and with no forewarning of local officials flies them to...
A. Des Moines, Iowa, Yes he's a great person for doing this! (You might be a Democrat!)
B. Martha's Vineyard, MA, Yes he's a great person for doing this! (You might be a Republican!)
Now let's do another thought experiment:
One politician has moved more than 10,000 immigrants to communities ill equipped to handle the influx, while the other has moved a few hundred. Who's the boogeyman?
And who's getting investigated?
He kept Florida mostly free during the Wuhan virus pandemic. For that act, he deserves credit. I don't want him to enter the presidential mess because I'd like him to stay Governor.
Listening to democrats whine about DeSantis and freedom is like listening to communists whine about capitalism and freedom.
"I voted for Trump and DeSantis. I was a right-wing pundit. I was dead wrong about all of it."
https://www.salon.com/2022/09/18/i-voted-for--twice-i-was-a-right-wing-pundit-i-was-about-all-of-it
P. S. I can't get a job or a date where I live in D.C. unless I spread it for them.
In other words, he's a progressive, he thinks like a progressive, and the fact that he voted for Trump was an aberration and a natural dislike for Hillary.
Sure. Every Never Trump Republican or conservative was always a RINO progressive. They just didn't know it until they turned on Orange Jesus.
Except he didn't turn on Orange Jesus and it's pretty blatantly a false dichotomy or red herring (methinks the lady doth protest too much). He's idiotically claiming he was faithful throughout Orange Jesus' (political) life and only turned to Satanism after a St. Linus was made Pope.
It would be like me telling you I agreed with Fauci right up until he disagreed with the CDC, at which point, I decided Trump was right all along. If some minor disagreement between Fauci and the CDC was all it took for me to turn my back on all of it, you'd be right to question if I was participating in good faith all along.
Uh, he was pretty clear that it was a gradual realization, arrived at after a lot of self-reflection and attempts at thinking about events objectively, not a single minor dispute that broke his loyalty to Trump. You just aren't accepting that his "conversion" was genuine because you don't want to believe it.
Read below as to why you're wrong.
^What you say when you're so retardedly oblivious that you don't understand why you put the word 'conversion' in quotes. [Hint: It's not because you're quoting me or the original author.]
No I don't believe his conversion to be genuine for behavioral cues and revealed preferences, likely the same ones that cause you to be dubious of his conversion. Specifically, as I indicated, a gradual conversion from ardent Catholic to lapsed Catholic to agnostic or even atheist, especially over the course of years, makes sense and actually observes some principles. "Converting" from Catholic to Satanist in a matter of months? Yeah, either you have no principles on which to stand and, by your own description, you could switch again 3 mos. from now for no particular reason at all... or you were a Satanist all along, your choice.
He is a progressive because he pretty much spells it out for you:
is committed to healing America’s political traumatization by bringing together communities and elected leaders to collaborate on nonpartisan economic, educational and quality of life solutions
That describes a progressive, not a conservative or libertarian.
Conservatives and libertarians don't want economic, educational, and quality of life solutions to people's problems? They don't want to bring communities together or have elected leaders collaborate? Interesting admission.
Maybe you believe a fantasy version of those ideologies where government never intervenes in those areas, or people's lives more generally, at all. But in the real world, government will always have some impact on how people live. The ideological and partisan questions are how much and what kind of interventions should government make. The mantra is "limited government", not "no government".
You aren't engaging in any kind of philosophical or intellectual debate over politics or policy. You are labeling people as being part of your tribe or the opposition.
If he even voted for Trump at all. He pretty much lays out in his article, penned *in 2022*, that he disliked every decision DeSantis made about the pandemic. I note the *in 2022* because changing your mind in 2019 or 2020 amid all the confusion and misinformation has at least a modicum of understandable irrationality to it, but in 2022, it's pretty much a statement of "I would, and really always have preferred Fauci and Walensky's and policies that killed people to DeSantis' policies of freedom."
Also, dude holds up the fact that he penned or was quoted in something like 6 articles over the course of 4 yrs. as some sort of bona fides. Like Steve Greenhut couldn't or Shikha Dahlmia didn't, for quite some time, use similar bona fides to gaslight people about their libertarianism or even, in Shikha's case, conservatism.
When COVID hospitalizations for children began to skyrocket here in Florida last summer, during the delta surge, I told other Trump and DeSantis voters that our governor would divorce himself from the COVID-deniers and the spreaders of vaccine disinformation. As you probably know, he didn't do that. Instead, DeSantis quadrupled down on undermining the vaccine and undoing health precautions.
He didn't go into specifics about what "health precautions" that DeSantis "quadrupled down" on "undoing". And he also criticized DeSantis for his vaccine messaging. That isn't disliking "every decision" DeSantis made about the pandemic. You are taking disagreement over specific policies and turning it into hardened, unreasoned opposition. This looks like projection to me. You are reflexive and total in your opposition to anything Democrats say, so it must be true of him, as well.
That's because the Democrats warrant suspicion in everything they do. You are also mistaken on the idea that the author only opposed DeSantis on one aspect of COVID. It should also be known that Florida ended up being well off when it came to COVID, without the lockdowns that ended up doing more harm than good.
The writer of the article is a partisan hack. You should quit defending him and repent of your wrongs.
You are taking disagreement over specific policies and turning it into hardened, unreasoned opposition.
No. I'm not. He doesn't give a specific reason for his "conversion", as such it is objectively unreasoned (If DeSantis had only tripled down would that be OK? What exactly constitutes the 'quadruple'? Is it possible it was actually 'octuple' and he somehow missed the first several?).
Additionally, I'm explicitly not saying 'hardened' opposition. I'm specifically saying he has no principles by which to have a hardened opposition. The nature of his 'conversion' demonstrates as much, no clear reason, diametric opposition rather than orthogonal disalignment, and over the course of several months. Even if taken perfectly at his word, it would seem he could do a complete 180 at any given moment.
Either he's got a real reason that he's not telling us or he's a fair weather hack who's not really of any real principled service to either party.
As a competent, moderately conservative, non-libertarian politician, operating in a dysfunctional, non-libertarian, increasingly socialist political environment.
"As a competent, moderately conservative, non-libertarian politician, operating in a dysfunctional, non-libertarian, increasingly socialist political environment."
Yes, exactly.
Most republicans would consider Ron Paul as good on fiscal policy but misguided in some foreign policy measures. But they would vote him over every other democrat who ran against them. Unlike the left and now apparently libertarians, they won't let some differences overcome commonalities when the chips are down.
Most republicans would consider Ron Paul as good on fiscal policy but misguided in some foreign policy measures. But they would vote him over every other democrat who ran against them. Unlike the left and now apparently libertarians, they won’t let some differences overcome commonalities when the chips are down.
You make it sound like an "anyone but the Democrats" attitude is the same thing as open-minded willingness to compromise.
It certainly is, since the Democrats are as intolerant as it gets. Why vote for a party that clearly goes against your values? Better to vote for a politician that retards the Democrats' attempts at altering society. Is that hard to understand?
Society is altering itself, as it has since the dawn of civilization. Cultural values and norms will always change, sometimes for the good and sometimes for the bad. People then assess those changes and respond accordingly.
Neither Democrats nor Republicans have some Svengali-like power to lead the American people astray. Neither Democrats nor Republicans are "altering" society.
Conservatism tries to slam on the brakes, liberalism tries to floor the accelerator, and moderates try to keep moving forward at a reasonable rate. The quarter of society on the far right have to embrace authoritarianism because society is always moving away from the past. The quarter of society on the far left have to embrace authoritarianism because they want to force extreme changes right now. The remaining Democrats, Republicans, and most independents are left to choose the less-bad (and less authoritarian) option.
Conservative "values", especially in regards to homosexuality, gender, marriage, abortion, and "appropriate" education, are waning. Liberal "values", like tax-and-spend policies, creating equity by advantaging historically marginalized groups, and social engineering, recieve lukewarm support, especially at the extreme levels that the far left advocates.
This allows for a vibrant culture war between the two extremes, with moderates stuck in between and any "best of two bad options" support being co-opted by the fringes and claimed as "proof" that "the American people" support extreme positions like banning abortion or supporting massive government spending.
Pro tip: if you believe that one party is always wrong, morally bankrupt, or attempting to replace "our values" on the sly, you are on the fringe. If you believe that justifies authoritarianism, you are wrong.
Considering the misguided foreign policies of the last 120+ years, I'd say Ron Paul has a pretty good grasp on this.
So the invasion of Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan wasn't misguided? The war in Viet Nam wasn't misguided? Korea? WW I and II? So Washington's policy towards Libya and Yemen isn't misguided? or Somalia? And now Ukraine.
Talk about misguided foreign policies, no one beats Washington.
800 foreign bases, dozens of bio-warfare labs throughout Europe and who knows where else.
Washington's sorry history of interventionism in Latin America, South east Asia and the middle east especially when it can't govern responsibly here in America.
Because the left never quits lying. Because the left uses it's political power to go after the opposition. Because the left's cities and states suck, and they are trying to convince the right they suck to, but they don't and it is not working.
"criticized his stance on gay rights"
What a partisan rag you are.
Hey, Gillespie - there are no such thing as gay rights. Or women's rights.
There are only human rights.
Once upon a time you understood that.
NICK GILLESPI always gives Democrats a pass while heavily criticizing Republicans for doing the same thing.
This simply begs another question: IF Gov. Newsom is so good, why is living in California so bad?
If Gov. Hochul is so good, why is living in New York so bad?
or:
If Lori Lightfoot is so good, why is living in Chicago so bad?
This is a classical fallacy, the ignoring of the common cause.
IF it's great and those who made it great voted for (or even against) we cant separate causes !!!
THe state is great and there is a constanct correlation
when one notices a constant correlation between A and B and assumes A caused B (or vice versa) while ignoring that there is a third variable, C, that causes both and therefore accounts for the correlation.