Free Speech

Neil Young vs. Joe Rogan: Free Speech Wins

The scandal du jour reminds us that radical free speech is alive and well.

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Who do you trust more about COVID? A legendary rock star or the world's most popular podcaster? The biggest takeaway from the latest culture war battle is that you get to decide.

Neil Young pulled his music from Spotify but you can still listen to his discography easily enough. And even if the world's most popular streaming service had dropped Joe Rogan, he'd still have all sorts of ways to reach his massive audience. The scandal du jour reminds us that radical free speech is alive and well. In a profound way, it doesn't matter if somebody somewhere wants to block it because it'll be available a few clicks away, no matter what.

Young fired the first shots by telling the streaming service Spotify that they had to choose between keeping his music on its platform or continuing to host Rogan's podcast. Young said Rogan spreads dangerous misinformation about COVID.

Spotify updated its rules about publishing content that "promotes dangerous, false, or deceptive medical information" about COVID-19 and other diseases but has stood squarely by its marquee star, whose contract is worth a reported $100 million. Young almost immediately inked a deal with satellite radio provider SiriusXM to distribute his newest album and curate his back catalog. And his music remains widely available on YouTube, Apple Music, and his own website. Same goes for Joni Mitchell, who quickly followed suit.

Rogan also keeps rolling on, telling listeners via Instagram that the whole point of his show is to have interesting conversations and let people come to their own conclusions. "If I pissed you off, I'm sorry," he said. "And if you enjoy the podcast, thank you."

Young's call for Spotify to boot Rogan is risible, but his decision to pull his music is worth celebrating as an assertion of his right not to do business with an entity that offends him. Cancel culture is a real concern, but its impact is limited by the limitless nature of how easily stuff gets made and distributed these days.

Our world of cultural plenty was simply unimaginable in 1966 when Neil Young cut his first album with Buffalo Springfield. Back then, there were a handful of major record labels, a few movie studios, three national TV networks, and only AM and FM radio. Gatekeepers actually had a lot of power to suppress speech they didn't approve of. 

Nowadays, even the mighty Spotify is just one streaming service among many. The problem isn't that our choices are restricted; it's figuring out how to triage what to read, watch, or listen to because there aren't enough hours in the day to take in all the amazing movies, shows, songs, books, and podcasts available.

We get to decide what we're going to watch and who we're going to trust, which is a great outcome—but one we should never take for granted.

Text and narration by Nick Gillespie. Video production by Regan Taylor.

Photo Credits: Ross from hamilton on, Canada, CC BY 2.0, via Wikimedia Commons; Stoned59, CC BY 2.0, via Wikimedia Commons; Alterna2, CC BY 2.0, via Wikimedia Commons; Louis Grasse/PxImages/Icon Sportswire EGS/Louis Grasse/PxImages/Icon Sportswire/Newscom; Bruno Marzi / MEGA; KRLA Beat/Beat Publications, Inc., Public domain, via Wikimedia Commons; Ron Sachs - Pool via CNP / MEGA / Newscom; Taidgh Barron/ZUMA Wire/Newscom

Music Credits: "Ain't No Gambler," by Rock n Stock via Artlist; "Coal Mine Rhythm," by Dan Ayalon via Artlist.

NEXT: This Texas Town Rejected Stimulus Money to Avoid Vaccine Mandates

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  1. Neil fucking who? Looks like a washed up, old hippie dirtbag.

    Yeah, Rogan won.

    1. Neil Young has talent and will be remembered forever.

      Joe Rogan is a fucking talk show host. It has always amazed me how conservatives love their talk show hacks like Rush (King of the Rednecks) Limbaugh and Hamhead Hannity.

      At least Bill Maher (another useless talk show host) is a comedian on the side.

      1. Young is overrated hippie trash.
        He’ll be forgotten soon enough.

      2. You know what’s really memorable? You posting kiddie porn here. That’s forever.

      3. I guess you reject the democracy of the market place.

        But go on telling us which sources and opinions we should admire, and which to reject.

      4. If he will be remembered forever, it will be in the form of a long string of artists who used their craft to promote authoritarianism and collectivism.

        Personally, I find his music pretty awful, even disregarding the lyrics and the activism.

        1. Who had no problem with his music appearing on iTunes, even though Apple is in bed with the Chinese and their genocide against the Uighurs.

          Hosting people who give "misinformation" being so much worse than forced labor and rape camps.

          1. In addition, Young himself has been spreading harmful scientific misinformation for much of his career.

      5. "Neil Young has talent and will be remembered forever."

        He's barely remembered now.

        "Joe Rogan is a fucking talk show host."

        And a comedian. And MMA commenter. And yet folks like you are setting your hair on fire over him. Speaks well of you.

        "It has always amazed me how conservatives love their talk show hacks like Rush (King of the Rednecks) Limbaugh and Hamhead Hannity."

        Amazes me how Leftists turn on Leftists who do not follow their narrative to the letter.

        BTW, you know why Carlos Mencia is no longer a thing? Rogan took him down.

        1. We all now how those on the left are so tolerant.

      6. That's because u have the intellectual depth of a two week old mud puddle.
        The Phucko Knows

      7. Actually Rogan invites people on to tell their story. In this case it was someone with a PHD who also happened to be involved with the creation of the MRNA technology.
        What the guest said has riled up a lot of non thinking walking zombies because he dared stray outside the 3X5 index card of allowable opinion.

      8. I know who Joe Rogan is. Watch his show. I had to look up who Neil Young was. So I doubt he'll be remembered "forever." Either way, the it is absolute FACT, that spotify chose Rogan over Neil Young. Neil Young brings in how much $$$??? There are millions of views on each of Rogan's shows. He is a cash cow, and Neil Young is a has been. Period.

        Further - Neil Young thinks you shouldn't be allowed to speculate about COVID, at all! You aren't allowed to question anything. And you aren't allowed to have your own opinions. And to that, I say you, and Neil Young can go fuck off and fuck each other while listening to Neil Young, forever, while we forget you both.

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  2. This should be settled at the next UFC pay-per-view. I’ll put $20 on Joe Rogan.

  3. In related news, Meta (ex-Facebook) reported earnings after hours, and their stock has lost 20% of its value. Meta's pivot to the Metaverse is mostly driven by the graying of its Facebok and Instagram properties. The kids are using Snapchat to get away from bullying by social justice warriors. Market forces are people making choices!

    In related news, Zucker is out at CNN, as CNN continues to transition into a mainstream news service as its spun off of AT&T to a new joint venture headed by the CEO of Discovery. The CEO of Discovery is also presumably behind the firing of Cuomo and the hiring of Chris Wallace.

    And so, reading about how Joe Rogan remains undamaged by the misinformation torch wielding mobs doesn't surprise me. Rogan commands a huge audience, and the market forces behind that can and will sustain Spotify. If Spotify did something to hurt Rogan, it would be economic suicide.

    Market forces always win in the end.

    1. Ever hear the old joke about the two old ladies and their first time in a sushi restaurant? The first one says, "The food here tastes terrible", and the second one replies, "And the portions are too small!" If the food tastes so bad, why would you want more of it?

      If the reason kids aren't flocking to Facebook and Instagram anymore is because they want to avoid being bullied on social media by the kids in their school for saying something that isn't politically correct, what is it about offering them a more immersive experience in the Metaverse that's supposed to change that?

      Now, when you get bullied, you can experience it in the 3-D. It feels just like you were getting a real wedgie in the locker room! If you thought the mean girls in your class were bad for ganging up on you in Instagram, just wait til you see what they do to you in the Metaverse!

      The infrastructure of the internet was financed by the willingness of average people to pay through the nose for broadband so they could watch pr0n, steal music via Napster, and blast the fuck out of each other in Quake III Arena. Zuckerberg's plan to offer a new internet in the Metaverse built on government approved speech and the principles of social justice mobs may be based on some faulty assumptions about what consumers want.

      1. Today Facebook kicked truckers off the site. Supposedly because they were QAnon or some such nonsense. Anybody with a brain should be able to see exactly who's behind the move.

        1. Facebook is part of the palace guard.

          1. If by palace guard you mean sycophantic ass kissers, and wanna-be national socialists, then yes.

        2. Facebook management, one would assume, unless you have some evidence to present that it was government pressure. Cite?

          1. Why do you ask for cites when you stated you dont have to provide your own?

            1. The sealion ain’t got time for posting cites.

              1. The Sealion is the Honey Badger of the Seven Seas.

          2. "Cite?"

            The sealion's mighty roar.

          3. Cite? Any political science textbook. Read a book some time!

    2. They probably got CNN for next to nothing.

      1. That's exactly right.

        AT&T couldn't find anyone who was willing to pay for WarnerMedia, so they're spinning it off to a new joint venture with Discovery Media.

        https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/05/att-to-spin-off-warnermedia-will-try-to-act-like-a-telecom-company-again/

        They paid $100 billion for WarnerMedia just a few years ago, and they're basically offloading it to shareholders as a money losing enterprise to refocus on telco.

        That's why we're seeing all the changes at CNN, ultimately. CNN was an insignificant part of AT&T, who wanted to own content that they could provide exclusively to their telco customers at cut rates as a means to sell their phone service. They weren't a content company. They were trying to make money selling 5G, etc.

        Now that the company is being spun off to be run by the CEO of Discovery Networks, Discovery Networks is a content company. They make their money selling subscriptions, and they make their money selling advertising--and advertisers care about ratings. The ratings for a redundant news broadcast pushing progressive horseshit was already saturated. CNN's ratings stink. We're seeing all this reshuffling at the network because the new CEO is positioning CNN and CNN+ to be a real news service marketable to viewers across the political spectrum.

        The CNN people are in a new world where ratings matter, and that makes most of what they've been doing for the last ten years unnecessary. There are people ranting from their dorm rooms on YouTube who get more viewers than some of CNN's regular programming--at much lower cost.

    3. You can't argue with the fact the Joe Rogan has over 11 million views compared to CNN's dismal 700,000.

  4. in 1966 when Neil Young cut his first album with Buffalo Springfield.

    For What It's Worth

    1. Be's a husk of the man he was then with that timeless libertarian anth3m of the Sixties. If only the Yuppies had pr3served that worldview!

      One libertarian number I really love is Steven Stills "Treetop Flyer"
      https://youtu.be/AeEK_nCNuAw

      I'm kind of surprised no one has made a mash-up of scenes from Firefly and Serenity with this song as the audio. That would so jammin'!

      1. Timeless libertarian anthem? You must be kidding. How about utopian left wing drivel?

        Flying above the treetops and Grand Canyon without regulations or paying taxes isn’t “libertarian”. In a libertarian society, those would be private property, governed by private agreements that would likely keep noisy airplanes away and charge you for the privilege of overflights.

        1. Smugglers getting rich off of a black market is not libertarian. It is an unfortunate byproduct of a lack of liberty. Every downstream customer being forced to pay more than necessary.

  5. everything was fine until Graham Nash chimed in. if Graham Nash is pulling his songs it must be fucking serious.

    1. Well played. Someone should tell the hippies that the 60's are over.

      1. What is so funny, is most of the old hippies I know are pretty much straight ticket Republicans these days.

        1. Guilty as charged (but more libertarian with a strong R leaning as they are less intrusive in our lives)

        2. The great irony is the 60's hippie generation are the authoritarians of today.

          Perhaps looking at an entire generation to garner trends isn't as useful as it's made out to be.

          1. There is no irony there. The hippies wanted maximum personal autonomy and choice, and that’s what communism promises (but can’t deliver).

            Libertarianism doesn’t promise that. Libertarianism means hard work and rules and constraints that are stricter for most people than what we have right now.

            1. I seriously don't know where you people come up with this rubbish concerning Libertarians.
              Really?

  6. If it means anything, no Slack means nothing to the Boomer people. They all get mondo rich from songwriter's royalties on Radio and other platforms, but Slack pays diddly in comparison.

    Good example, some years ago one of the guys from Portishead got like $2000 on a royalty check after they'd had 34 million streams.

    Ol' Niel Young's Slack check isn't worth thinking about when he pulls his music. Joanie Mitchell's, even less.

      1. Joke from last time I posted about this.

    1. ...and he moved to services that pay even less.

  7. Oh yeah? Somewhere, Lois Lerner is laughing.

  8. My my, hey hey
    Rock and roll is here to stay

    Wow, now the world of Spotify will never see these profound lyrics again!

  9. I just dumped Apple Music because they allow Neil Young and joined Spotify.

  10. "Rock and roll ain't been worth a damn since Buddy Holly died"

    1. But remember: "Willie Nelson only smokes the killer weed."

  11. Is being on Spotify actually benefiting Rogan anyway? The reason they paid him over $100Mil was to compel the audience he'd built without them to have to sign up for memberships on their "service". If they choose to sever the contract against his wishes, he keeps the cash, and can go back to reaching his audience the way he was doing it before; plus Spotify loses whatever users signed up only to listen to Rogan.

    Is there anyone who only found out that JRE existed by stumbling across him while browsing Spotify?

    Joe could even take their money and use it to launch his own podcast/media empire and maybe even draw other pods away from Spotify with the promise of not having to kowotow to tech-wokesters filing protests with the company whenever one of the words that was said on a back episode gets added to the "naughty list" in the latest edition of leftist newspeak. Maybe he could also get some seed capitol from the hedge fund (Blackstone) that owns half of Neil Young's publishing catalog.

    1. Pretty sure he could move to Rumble in a heartbeat if he wanted.

    2. Pulling the rug out from under Spotify isn't in Rogan's best interests.

      Cancel culture will be a reality no matter where he goes, and he's shown that he can roll with it when necessary.

      The interesting thing is that as a subscription service, Spotify is more insulated than other outlets that depend more on advertising rather than subscribers.

      The push for cancel culture has to come from artists because Spotify is insulated from the concerns of advertisers about Twitter mobs. I'd say Spotify is like the Substack of podcasting, but I think Substack is doing podcasting now.

  12. Criminalize lying.

    1. That wouldn’t work out very well for you. You couldn’t talk about the Holocaust anymore without going to prison. Although I hear lots of prisons have gangs with similar sentiments.

      1. Actually, criminalizing lying would finally expose the holocaust lie, correcting the falsified records of history, and bring all the lying co conspirators and recipients of reparations to justice.

        When lying is criminalized, no nation could any longer ‘criminalize the sharing of evidence of logic and science that refutes the holocaust.

        Unbiased forensic archaeology and unlocking of evidence in every nation where it allegedly occurred would end that lie.

        1. Am Chai Yisrael !!!

          The people of Israel live Rob Misek. We have been dealing with Amalek for thousands of years. You're just one more that will depart the earth, and rot in your grave, while our people live good lives.

          1. Cheers to justice being served as the truth is shared that you can never refute.

        2. Holocaust lies have been criminalized in countries like Germany, France, and Poland.

          1. I call evidence of logic and science truth, not lies.

            1. Good! I do too! Hence, people like you are considered criminals in countries like Germany.

              1. Germany and every other nation that has criminalized the sharing of logic and science that refutes the holocaust story have criminalized truth, not lying.

                You advocate the criminalization of truth.

  13. I remember the time there was a flap over MTV refusing to air Neil Young's video about not singing for Pepsi, not singing for Coke, not singing for nobody makes me look like a joke. He may not sing for corporate interests, but he'll suck a politician's dick for free? Interesting business plan you got there, Neil.

    1. Oh, Neil Young spent his career singing for corporate interests.

      He is just too ignorant and drunk to know it.

  14. How is free speech winning, when Spotify brags about censoring something like 20,000 other podcasts and adding disclaimers to others?

    Meanwhile you have Whoopi Goldberg getting suspending for voicing the very common (among progressives) view that white people can't be racist to other white people (and Jews are white), which is a drop in water to Gina Carano being fired for using the Holocaust as a metaphor

    1. How is adding a disclaimer a violation of free speech?

      And you totally mischaracterized what Goldberg said. She was just saying she thought the Nazis were persecuting an ethnicity, not a race.

      1. Sure, since racism (which can only be whites lording over blacks) is worse than international ethnic genocide.

      2. And you totally mischaracterized what Goldberg said. She was just saying she thought the Nazis were persecuting an ethnicity, not a race.

        And she is wrong. Progressives/Nazis then, as now, divided up the world into "races", i.e., something you inherit. This was based on eugenics, widely embraced by progressives around the world. The Nazis didn't care whether you were ethnically German and religiously Catholic, if you had significant Jewish ancestry, they considered you a Jew.

        Nazis taught that one group victimized the other. Their political program consisted of punishing and expropriating the "victimizers" and redistributing the proceeds to the "victims".

        The Nazis defined the victimizers to be "Jews" and the victims to be "Aryans".

        Modern progressives define the victimizers to be "cis-hetero white males" (including Jews) and the victims to be "brown/black people".

        Modern progressives hold a belief system that is very similar to that of the Nazis; they only differ slightly on which racial groups they include/exclude among the victimizers/victims.

        1. You need only look at the apartheid state called Israel to see how Jews oppress and terrorize the Palestinians who live there.

          Miko Peled is an Israeli, an author, a public speaker and the son of a famous Israeli general.

          He is also opposed to Israeli apartheid of Palestinians.

          In the following video he puts into perspective what you won't see in our western propaganda.

          Between 40:40 and 43:45 in the video he describes Israeli terrorism.

          http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TOaxAckFCuQ

          1. Rob Misek, if you truly want to help the palestinians, self-deport to Judea or Samaria. Go help them.

            1. How’s about I keep sharing the truth that you can never refute?

              1. I think Israel’s policies are unjust and destructive, but it’s simply not my problem. What some Jews do today is also not relevant to an analysis of fascism as an ideology and its relationship to progressivism.

                The “truth” you have shared is that you also divide humanity into “victims” and “victimizers” based on race and ethnicity and use that as the basis of political and moral analysis, just like the fascists/Nazis did. But then we knew that already.

                1. You’re full of shit.

                  I identify wastes of skin false holocaust claimers by their actions and the unrefuted evidence of logic and science, truth.

                  If that describes your religion of liars, amen.

                  Jew, you want to cast stones at Nazis, look in the mirror.

                  1. I have seen the death camps, spoken with survivors, seen the documents. Germans were meticulous record keepers.

                    As for me, I’m a gay atheist. I have no skin in this game either way. I’m not even defending what Israel is doing; i frankly don’t care about Israel either way. I simply pointed out that Israel’s current policies have nothing to do with the progressive/fascists ideology in the US and Europe then and now.

                    But Nazis like you, Rob, are vile and disgusting.

                    1. You have seen prison camps and were told a great lie that they were death camps.

                      Cite your link to German records that you consider evidence of a holocaust.

                      Israel emerged from Jewish wet dreams to become a potential reality when rich influential Jewish groups promised Britain they would bring the US into WW1 in exchange for Palestine via the Balfour declaration. This extended the war by two years costing millions of lives at the time. The German suffering from the post war treaty of Versailles and Weimar Republic created reasonable anti Jewish sentiment and the need for a nationalist political party. The National Socialists.

                      The Balfour declaration is referenced in the declaration of Israel as its justification.

                      Israel was and is a stolen apartheid state. Jews then and now behave worse than Nazis ever did.

                      If you want to appear unbiased to have to consider the evidence objectively.

                    2. As for the Germans being meticulous record keepers cite ANY German recovered record of even a single prisoner dying from a cyanide gas chambers.

                      The “recorded German documents of evidence” in multitudes of archives consists of prison camp lists. That’s normal, not proof of a holocaust.

                      The other allied records from Nuremberg are manufactured, inadmissible and ridiculous.

                      It is officially recorded at Nuremberg that in Treblinka, the so called diesel carbon monoxide gas chambers were actually steam chambers. WTF?

                      One only needs to look objectively at all the evidence to recognize that the “holocaust” is just the last of 166 previous false Jewish claims of holocausts of six million Jews around the world between 1900 and 1945.

                    3. Wikipedia has a page summarizing evidence “ Evidence and documentation for the Holocaust”. Follow the links.

                      Perpetrators like Fritzsch and Hoess not only admitted the gassing of Jews, they bragged about it.

                    4. Hoesslin was tortured. His testimony should have been inadmissible. But wiki uses it.

                      Even so he testified that the cyanide gas came out of the shower heads which would have required complex apparatus to heat pressurize and valve in, fans to circulate and exhaust. The shower house would have needed to be air tight, not big drafts windows and doors, since bricked over. Nothing of the required apparatus was ever recovered or even photographed nor presented as evidence.

                      Nuremberg was a show trial. It broke all the rules of justice.

                      If it wasn’t a crime to perform unbiased forensic research at every alleged site of the holocaust that lie would have been exposed and discarded with the Jews 166 previous false claims of holocausts.

                    5. Zyklon B is hydrogen cyanide on adsorbents; it is a powder and doesn’t require any valves, fans, or exhaust.

                      Hoess and Fritzsch documented their actions; it wasn’t just admissions to interrogators.

                      Even disregarding all the evidence, your ideas about what Jews supposedly planned and what happened simply make no logical sense.

                    6. Wiki doesn’t mention the use of zyklon b in purposely built and verified delousing chambers in Aushwitz that have heaters internal fans and exhaust fans. It even contradicts itself on how zyklon b must be used.

                      It first describes how zyklon is activated, “ , a pesticide that released hydrogen cyanide upon exposure to water and heat..

                      And

                      Uses in Germany included delousing clothing (often using a portable sealed chamber invented by Degesch in the 1930s) and fumigating ships, warehouses, and trains.[

                      Then because no such heating or air circulation was possible where the holocaust lie had to take place they came up with this impossible contradiction.

                      “After the doors were shut, SS men dropped Zyklon B pellets through vents in the roof or holes in the side of the chamber. The victims were dead within 20 minutes.”

                      Wiki never mentions Hoes”s torture or that he said the gas came out of the shower heads of the shower houses because once again it is ridiculously impossible.

                      Why is wikis own version different, incomplete and self contradictory?

                    7. Wiki doesn’t mention the use of zyklon b in purposely built and verified delousing chambers in Aushwitz that have heaters internal fans and exhaust fans. It even contradicts itself on how zyklon b must be used. It first describes how zyklon is activated, “ , a pesticide that released hydrogen cyanide upon exposure to water and heat..

                      You misquoted. That paragraph is about Zyklon A. Zyklon A required water and heat for activation (it was probably some acid plus cyanide salt).

                      Zyklon B does not have such requirements, since it is just adsorbed hydrogen cyanide.

                      From the Zyklon B patent (via Google Patents and Google Translate):

                      The present invention consists in that inan the liquid hydrocyanic acid in porous materials, such as kieselguhr, diatomite and the like, can be soaked up and the product in tight vessels, for example tin cans and the like. In these tin cans the mixture of the absorption body is retained. with the liquid. Prussic acid unchanged, even if the pressure rises above atmospheric pressure, and there is a risk of explosion is excluded. At the point of use, it is sufficient to put the vessels in the usual Way to open or empty, whereupon the evaporation of the hydrocyanic acid takes place immediately. The resulting residues, which essentially only contain the absorption mass are completely harmless. By choosing suitable graduated sleeve sizes one can the dosage according to the room size finitely with a fair degree of accuracy and certainty reach. If you sprinkle the contents of the can in a thin layer, it evaporates the hydrogen cyanide in about 10 minutes, so that the maximum concentration of the gas in the R atitne is reached with extraordinary rapidity. Even under unfavorable Temperature conditions, a pressure of at most one atmosphere is created in the vessels, so that the hydrocyanic acid is safe and cheaper than in other forms and can be brought to the place of use. The remaining absorbent mass can either be used for new fillings related or treated like garbage without any precautionary measure.

                      Glad I could clear this up for you.

                    8. Note that Nazis murdered people with gas via two different methods.

                      The first was using carbon monoxide, introduced via pipes and nozzles that looked like "shower heads".

                      For gassing people with Zyklon B, all they needed to do was to dump the pellets into the room though small openings (no "shower heads" or pipes needed). Death occurred within 10-20 minutes, and all that leaves is corpses and a harmless residue.

                  2. Provide the link to your excerpt from that online patent.

                    Heating speeds up the process, fans circulate the gas throughout the room and exhaust it to make deloused clothing removal safe. This equipment exists in the disinfecting chambers in Aushwitz manufactured by Degesch.

                    On a hot day, above 25.7 C which is the boiling point of the liquid hydrogen cyanide in zyklon crystals the gas would begin to evaporate from the pellets, uncirculated it would have to diffuse through a large chamber. On a cold day, evaporation could take an hour and diffusion even longer. That rate of death occurring after several hours totally contradicts the necessary holocaust narrative.

                    Why did Germany wait until 1942, during the typhus epidemic and increased purchases of delousing zyklon to start killing Jews?

                    Diesel exhaust is relatively safe. It has a fraction of the carbon monoxide produced by gas engines. That’s why diesel can be used in enclosed spaces like mines. It would take hours of operation to produce enough CO to be lethal and everyone would be uncontrollably vomiting.

                    The holocaust lie fails the test of science and physics.

                    1. After hours when the people fell to the ground closest to and on top of the pellets lying on the ground, diffusion of the gas would be slowed even more.

                      There’s a reason defence designed the equipment needed to reliably generate cyanide gas to delouse clothing and zyklon wasn’t designed to be “thrown as pellets onto the cold floor.”

                    2. Provide the link to your excerpt from that online patent.

                      The patent is DE 438818. Search on Google.

                      On a hot day, above 25.7 C which is the boiling point of the liquid hydrogen cyanide in zyklon crystals

                      Zyklon B consists of hydrogen cyanide adsorbed to diatomaceous earth, not liquid hydrogen cyanide or "crystals".

                      Why did Germany wait until 1942, during the typhus epidemic and increased purchases of delousing zyklon to start killing Jews?

                      Germany didn't wait until 1942. The Nazis put people into concentration camps starting in 1933 and started killing people right away using many different methods, including starvation. Zyklon B wasn't used until 1941 because it was only in 1941 that Fritzsch and Hoess thought of using it, and even after that, it remained only one of many execution methods, albeit a particularly efficient one.

                    3. I don’t know what that patent is for but nowhere in your link is zyklon b mentioned.

                      Wiki says gassing Jews didn’t start until mid 1942. Why did Germany wait so long?

                    4. Because 1942 was when the typhus epidemic raged in prison camps and zyklon b gas chambers were small air tight and had clothing racks to save the lives of prisoners.

                      Here with photos, you may have seen them on your tour.

                      http://furtherglory.wordpress.com/2010/02/27/famous-photo-of-dachau-gaskammer/

                    5. I don’t know what that patent is for but nowhere in your link is zyklon b mentioned.

                      Zyklon B is the brand name for the material described in the patent. Obviously, the patent was filed before the brand name which is why it doesn't reference them. Some of the scientific publications do mention the brand name. I suggest you visit your library and look them up.

                      Wiki says gassing Jews didn’t start until mid 1942. Why did Germany wait so long?

                      As I explained to you, Nazis were killing people by many different means between 1933 and 1945.

                      Because 1942 was when the typhus epidemic raged in prison camps and zyklon b gas chambers were small air tight and had clothing racks to save the lives of prisoners.

                      Yes, they did. It's not an either/or situation. The Nazis deloused clothing, they forced prisoners to work, and they executed some prisoners either as punishment or because they could not work anymore. For the executions, they used a variety of methods between 1933 and 1945; Zyklon B was only one of those methods. Starvation, disease, and gun shots were likely the primary causes of deaths during the genocide, ahead of death in the gas chambers.

                      No matter the cause of death, all of those deaths were part of the "final solution" and the Nazis were legally and morally responsible for those deaths.

                    6. Your saying that the Nazis bought zyklon b to use in gas chambers to save the lives of the Jewish prisoners during WW2 … and also to kill them.

                      Do you think the Nazis had nothing better to do during WW2 than save and kill Jews at the same time?

                    7. It looks like your argument contains a fundamental contradiction.

                      If you can’t explain logically why Germans would both save Jews and kill them at the same time with the same products designed for saving lives, you have nothing more than a ridiculous lie.

                    8. If you can’t explain logically why Germans would both save Jews and kill them at the same time with the same products designed for saving lives, you have nothing more than a ridiculous lie.

                      Concentration camps were forced labor camps (hence "Arbeit Macht Frei"). Obviously, Germans wanted to keep their forced labor free of epidemics and disease. Zyklon B was used for that purpose from the early 1930's.

                      Prisoners in concentration camps were killed when they were not capable of providing useful labor anymore, in particular later in the war, once food and space became scarce; this was either upon arrival or after suffering deteriorating health due to camp/labor conditions.

                      Until 1941, such prisoners were killed using a variety of means. In 1941, Fritzsch and Hoess had the idea of using Zyklon B, a substance they already were using, for executions. Since it was efficient at killing, they started using it on a large scale in 1942.

                      Hope that clears up your confusion.

                    9. So Germans had a reason tho keep Jewish prisoners alive. They had been keeping people alive using zyklon b with heaters, fans and exhaust fans for many years before WW2.

                      A typhus epidemic breaks out in 1942 and they begin using much more zyklon b to keep prisoners alive.

                      Then in your holocaust theory the idea of using zyklon b to kill Jews just popped into their heads and although they still needed labour and they kept saving Jewish lives they also killed millions destroying their supply of labour.

                      The gas chambers used to fumigate clothes aren’t suitable for killing people so another story using shower rooms unsuitable for gas distribution and an inefficient impossible application of zyklon b was created.

                      The holocaust in a nutshell.

                    10. Then in your holocaust theory the idea of using zyklon b to kill Jews just popped into their heads and although they still needed labour and they kept saving Jewish lives they also killed millions destroying their supply of labour.

                      Germans used healthy prisoners for forced labor and killed the rest. As prisoners became weaker, they were killed. Camps didn't have an infinite capacity, so they just worked current prisoners to death knowing that new ones would arrive soon. They did that starting in 1933 until 1945. They used many methods for killing prisoners that were unable to work, not just Zyklon B.

                      The number of prisoners killed increased enormously as the war progressed because the number of prisoners greatly increased while at the same time the Nazis had less and less food available for them.

                      The gas chambers used to fumigate clothes aren’t suitable for killing people so another story using shower rooms unsuitable for gas distribution and an inefficient impossible application of zyklon b was created.

                      Zyklon B is a solid and is applied simply by keeping it in open containers or sprinkling it on the ground; it doesn't require any "gas distribution".

                      The holocaust in a nutshell.

                      The Holocaust in a nutshell is that Nazis expropriated, displaced, and imprisoned Jews and other people they considered undesirable; they justified these actions both through eugenics and through anti-capitalist economic theories.

                      They then used their victims for forced labor as long as that was useful, and killed them when they could no longer work or they couldn't feed them anymore.

                      Killing was carried out by shooting, gassing, starvation, exposure, and many other means. Yes, the Nazis killed millions of Jews by means other than gas chambers.

                      That's the holocaust in a nutshell.

                      The holocaust is far from the only genocide, and it is certainly not the worst mass killing by a totalitarian regime (Stalin and Mao were both worse). What makes the holocaust so pernicious is that it was carried out by a supposedly educated, civilized people (Germans) against citizens, neighbors, and friends, often educated and wealthy, right in the middle of supposedly civilized Europe.

                    11. Your theory isn’t supported by logic or the available evidence which I will present once again here.

                      Keeping people alive to work is inconsistent with killing them of which there is zero physical evidence for.

                      What is truly remarkable is that anyone still believes the refuted holocaust story.

                      The following points refute key elements of the holocaust with logic and science. This is because all stories creating the holocaust narrative defy logic and science.

                      There has been no objective forensic analysis at any supposed site. That means that there is no physical evidence. Any activity that demonstrates and shared evidence to refute the holocaust is a crime in every nation where it allegedly occurred.

                      The crucial event of the story is the cyanide gassing of millions of Jews. That never happened.

                      Jews wrote books illustrated with pictures of themselves shirtless dragging gassed bodies from the chambers to cremation ovens.

                      But cyanide is absorbed through the skin and NOBODY could have survived a single day of such activity much less collecting reparations into their old age reminiscing about it over a game of checkers.

                      And so it goes with every bullshit story. The facts prove otherwise.

                      Let’s not forget another old timey favourite.The story of Babi Yar is a popular lesson in Jewish schools described as the single largest event of the holocaust.

                      The lesson is that between 30,000 and 100,000 Jews were taken to a ravine in Ukraine where they were killed.

                      The story is told by one Jewish
                      survivor, Dina Pronicheva, an actress who testified that she was forced to strip naked and marched to the edge of the ravine. When the firing squad shot, she jumped into the ravine and played dead. After being covered by thousands of bodies and tons of earth she dug herself out, unscathed, when the coast was clear and escaped to tell the story.

                      She is apparently the only person in history to successfully perform a matrix bullet dodge at a firing squad. The soldier aiming point blank at her never noticed her escape. Never walked a few steps to the edge of the ravine to finish her off.

                      They were stripped naked to leave no evidence. Naked she had no tools to dig herself out from under 30,000 bodies and tons of dirt.

                      Only after the deed was done, the nazis realized that so many bullet ridden bodies were evidence. Oops, rookie move. So they brought more Jews and millions of cubic feet of firewood to dig them up, cremate them on gravestones and scatter their ashes in surrounding fields.

                      There has been no forensic investigation at the site. None of the bullets allegedly burned with the bodies have been recovered. Not one shred of physical evidence of this has ever been found.

                      There are aerial photographs of the area at the time but they don’t show any evidence of the narrative, no people, no equipment, no firewood, no moved earth, no tracks of any kind.

                      Simply stating these facts is a crime in Ukraine where the Babi Yar narrative is taught in school

                      Have you ever heard of the Bletchley park decrypts of the famous German enigma machines? It was credited for turning the tide of the war as allies knew what military actions the Germans were planning.

                      Only released in the 1980s those translated messages included prison camp information, deaths, transfers and requests for medicines to treat illnesses. The numbers of dead don’t support the holocaust narrative of which there was also no mention of.

                      Are you willingly performing the mental gymnastics required to believe, as the story goes, that Germans were communicating in code about prison camps while talking plainly about their military actions with their top secret enigma machines?

                      The numbers of dead from German enigma decrypts does align with Red Cross numbers.

                      The Red Cross regularly visited all prison camps. It was their job to report the cause of all deaths. They recorded a grand total of 271,000 among all camps for the entire war. It is a matter of record.

                      Are you performing the mental gymnastics required to believe that the Red Cross were so incompetent that they were completely unaware of 95% or 5,629,000 deaths?

                      Zyklon B is an off the shelf insecticide used among other places in Prison camps to delouse clothing and bedding to save lives by preventing deadly typhus. The system used for years before the war employed heating to release cyanide gas, fans to circulate the gas and more to exhaust the chambers to make the de loused articles safe to handle.

                      Pictures of this equipment and the small de lousing buildings with clothing racks still exist in Prison camps. But no evidence of any gas delivery system has ever been found in the shower houses where the bullshit holocaust allegedly occurred. In fact, the story has changed to that they just threw the heat activated pellets onto the cold drainless floors in rooms full of people.

                      Such an inefficient method would have taken too long to kill the required number of Jews. The pellets couldn’t be spread evenly in rooms full of people. The cold drainless floors would have delayed the release of cyanide from the pellets that people would have swept away from themselves. Any dead would have released all their bodily fluids and their bodies covering the pellets. Vomit would have been added to the floor prior to entering such a room.

                      According to Martin Gilbert in his book, Holocaust Journey, the gas chambers at Treblinka utilized carbon monoxide from diesel engines. At the Nuremberg trial of the Nazi war criminals, the American government charged that the Jews were murdered at Treblinka in “steam chambers,” not gas chambers.

                      Gasoline engine exhaust contains about ten times the carbon monoxide than diesel. Diesel exhaust is relatively safe. Even if the Diesel engines were running at their maximum of 500 ppm, death would take several hours. Far too long to support the narrative.

                      If Germans had used gas engines, death would have been in a few minutes. But in the holocaust narrative for treblinka diesel was used even though they had plenty of gas for their tanks. Nuremberg still recorded that they were “steam chambers”.

                      Which stupid lie is more believable? You have to perform some feeble mental gymnastics to buy that.

                      Jews had been publicly claiming a holocaust of 6 million Jews in various nations no less than 166 times between 1900 and 1945. Only for sympathy to raise money and coerce sympathy. Like the wastes of skin who fake cancer on go fund me pages.

                      The story of gassing Jews began as British propaganda to turn popular opinion against Germany. It was inspired to draw attention away from Jewish Bolshevik war crimes in Russia because that would work against allied propaganda. It also served global Jewish interests to create undeserved sympathy for Jews who had publicly organized boycotts of Germany to drive Germany to war.

                      There is a documented letter from the head of British propaganda to the head of the war office recommending that they cease the “gassing Jews“ propaganda because there was no evidence for it and if found out would work against their propaganda efforts.

                      The only thing the bullshit holocaust narrative has in common with WW2 is that they were both the creation of Jews.

                      These Jewish leaders are admitting it.. Are they lying?

                      “We Jews are going to bring a war on Germany”.
                      David A Brown, national chairman, united Jewish campaign, 1934.

                      “The Israeli people around the world declare economic and financial war against Germany …holy war against Hitlers people”

                      Chaim Weismann, the Zionist leader, 8 September 1939, Jewish chronicle.

                      The Toronto evening telegram of 26 February 1940 quoted rabbi Maurice l. Perlzweig of the world Jewish Congress as telling a Canadian audience that” The world Jewish Congress has been at war with Germany for seven years”.

                    12. Keeping trained workers alive and healthy with food, shelter, medicine and exercise would result in far fewer “sick” people than necessary to support your theory.

                      Do you have any paid witness statements that support your theory?

                    13. Look, if you want to convince people that Zyklon B was not used in gas chambers, you'll have to come up with convincing evidence. As far as I and most other people are concerned, the witness descriptions, patents, and publications are more than enough to establish the feasibility and actual use of Zyklon B for the mass killing of prisoners in Nazi camps.

                      But you're missing a more general point here. The holocaust isn't the killing of millions of Jews in gas chambers, it is the killing of millions of Jews between 1933 and 1945 by any means; that's in addition to even larger numbers of non-Jewish civilians killed by the Nazis.

                      So, I have no idea what you and other "holocaust deniers" are even alleging. Are you saying that the Nazis didn't kill millions of civilians at all? Or that they selectively didn't kill Jews but killed millions of other civilians? Or what?

                      And what exactly do you think happened to the millions of Jews that lived in Poland, France, Germany, and other European nations prior to 1939? Most of them didn't go to Palestine, or the US or the UK according to census and immigration records, so where are they?

                    14. On the contrary, zyklon b was designed to be used in gas chambers with specific heating, forced air circulation and exhaust to fumigate clothing to kill lice not people.

                      These chambers exist and were used for that purpose to save lives in German prison camps among other places before and during WW2.

                      You have admitted as much.

                      The small clothing delousing gas chambers couldn’t physically hold enough people to support the millions of deaths claimed in the holocaust story.

                      Zyklon b wasn’t designed to be “thrown by hand” into a couple of vents in a side wall onto the floor in a large cold room crowded with people to kill them all in minutes, because that wouldn’t work.

                      The holocaust story demands that something that couldn’t physically happen, did.

                      The fact that it couldn’t work as described REFUTES the description and necessarily the story.

                    15. I’m saying that logic and science demonstrate that the holocaust story never happened.

                      The total number of deaths in German prison camps was recorded by the Red Cross to be less than 300,000. None by gassing.

                      Other stories of mass murder like Babi Yar have also been refuted as impossible logically and with verifiable photographic evidence.

                      What began as Jewish propaganda to raise money 166 times between 1900 and 1945, was embellished by allied propaganda to make Germans appear to be the monsters of your Nazi nightmares.

                      Jews goal all along was to steal Palestine. The allied goal was always to win a war and emerge as the dominant superpower.

                      They worked together in conspiracy then and to this day for the same reasons.

                    16. The fact that it couldn’t work as described REFUTES the description and necessarily the story.

                      The term "holocaust" doesn't specifically refer to the killing of Jews in gas chambers, it refers to the systematic killing of Jews by any means.

                      The Nazis probably did not kill the majority of Jews in gas chambers.

                      Zyklon b wasn’t designed to be “thrown by hand” into a couple of vents in a side wall onto the floor in a large cold room

                      That is exactly what it was designed for; you can find descriptions in the literature how it was used for fumigating holds of ships, dormitories, and other facilities.

                    17. I’m saying that logic and science demonstrate that the holocaust story never happened.

                      The "holocaust story" is that Nazis had embarked on a project of ethnic cleansing, expropriation, and creating "Lebensraum", which caused the deaths of many millions of people, about half of them Jews. Those facts are supported by Nazi records themselves.

                      Jews goal all along was to steal Palestine. ... They worked together in conspiracy then and to this day for the same reasons.

                      For what possible reason would wealthy middle class Jews, many of them secular, living in Germany or Poland want to "steal" a middle eastern shithole like Palestine?

                      And evidently, the Nazis themselves must have been in on that American-Jewish conspiracy themselves, because they themselves documented what they were doing. Other members of the conspiracy must have been the Catholic church, the protestant church, and many other groups, all of which attested to the crimes and mass murders the Nazis committed.

                      What began as Jewish propaganda to raise money 166 times between 1900 and 1945, was embellished by allied propaganda to make Germans appear to be the monsters of your Nazi nightmares.

                      Nazism and fascism are monstrous, vile, inhumane, totalitarian ideologies even if they hadn't been responsible for genocides.

                    18. Firstly, zyklon b, Prussia acid, does not boil, producing gas below 78.3 F

                      Throwing onto a cold floor in winter JUST DOESNT WORK.

                      Specifications For HCN
                      Name:
                      HCN, hydrocyanic acid; prussic acid
                      Boiling point:
                      25.7 C / 78.3 F at 760 mm Hg

                      http://www.historiography-project.com/misc/ar/zyklonb.php

                      Secondly, the mass gassing of Jews is a fundamental element of the holocaust. Without that there is no holocaust.

                    19. Firstly, zyklon b, Prussia acid, does not boil, producing gas below 78.3 F

                      Liquids certainly do evaporate below their boiling points. For example, water doesn't boil below 212F, yet at room temperature and 50% relative humidity, there are about 8g of water per cubic meter, or about 0.2 gallons in a 12'x12' room. Even at freezing point, there are still about 2g of water per cubic meter. That's 10000 and 2500 ppm of water respectively. Air is capable of holding even more hydrogen cyanide at those temperatures, yet about 100-200 ppm are already lethal.

                      Throwing onto a cold floor in winter JUST DOESNT WORK.

                      Throwing liquid hydrogen cyanide on a cold floor would be slower, but liquids evaporate even below their boiling point and eventually reach lethal concentrations. You can speed up evaporation by increasing the surface area from which evaporation takes place. For example, if you drench bed sheets in a liquid and hang them up, the liquid evaporates much faster.

                      That's what adsorbing the hydrogen cyanide to a solid with high surface area does, as in Zyklon B. Furthermore, once adsorbed, the intermolecular forces of the liquid phase are gone, so the boiling point doesn't matter anymore and release is determined by the intermolecular forces between the hydrogen cyanide and the substrate (which you can choose for quick release). In addition, once adsorbed to another material, it's the temperature of the material, not the temperature of the floor, that determines release.

                      Secondly, the mass gassing of Jews is a fundamental element of the holocaust. Without that there is no holocaust.


                      Definition of holocaust
                      1: a sacrifice (see SACRIFICE entry 1 sense 2) consumed by fire
                      2: a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life especially through fire
                      a nuclear holocaust
                      3a: usually the Holocaust : the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially Jews by the Nazis during World War II

                      There is nothing about gassing in there. It is the Holocaust no matter how Hitler slaughtered millions of people.

                      Now, I agree with you on one point: the attempts to portray the Holocaust as an exclusively Jewish issue is not right; that's a propaganda point both Holocaust deniers and Jewish organizations use. In fact, Hitler's crimes were far wider in scope, and he slaughtered more non-Jewish civilians than Jews. We also shouldn't forget that Hitler was behind Mao and Stalin in terms of mass murder.

                    20. Without forced air circulation, pellets thrown into a few wall vents in a crowded cold room, the pellets would evaporate slowly, the closest people would puke, die, fall onto the pellets and soil themselves. All delaying or preventing evaporation and diffusion.

                      People farther away may not die at all.

                      Germans had experience with heaters and fans to make the process of fumigation efficient.

                      At the very least they would have installed that equipment to commit mass murder on the alleged scale of the holocaust.

                      They didn’t.

                      Gassing Jews is allegedly responsible for the majority of deaths attributed to this particular holocaust story.

                      Science and logic refute the story.

                    21. At the very least they would have installed that equipment to commit mass murder on the alleged scale of the holocaust.

                      The later gas chambers were about 2000 sq ft. If heating and/or air circulation were needed, a couple of portable heaters and fans would have been enough. Air circulation was improved by putting the Zyklon B into tall wire cages lowered down from the ceiling.

                      The chambers were likely warm and well circulated simply due to body heat (10000 W / 100 victims), breathing of hundreds of victims (1 m3 / min / 100 victims), and the adjacent crematoria.

                      The plans and descriptions found here are consistent with the Holocaust descriptions, witness accounts, and court transcripts. Sorry, but so far, nothing you have said shows any inconsistency in these accounts.

                    22. Portable fans and heaters eh? Like ones desperate people could disable or use to exhaust?

                      What was claimed and presented at Nuremberg is the holocaust story that is refuted. Not whatever you can imagine in your dreams.

                      That link with random text and photos, completely unverified simply show buildings and rooms. There is zero evidence that they were places of murder.

                      The “testimony” has been long discredited as the result of torture.

                      Nothing in your link is credible.

          2. How is that relevant? How do Israel’s policies today change the simple fact that modern progressives still think and behave like the Nazis?

            You yourself obviously are totally caught up in this racist and tribal thinking, as is Peled. In fact your comment illustrates my point further.

            1. When you recognize that the holocaust is a lie and look objectively at jew behaviour for more than a century, Jews are far worse than Nazis ever were. They still are.

              The next time you’re about to call someone a Nazi, do worse, call them a jew.

              1. I have seen the physical evidence, spoken to survivors, seen the records, talked to Germans who were alive at the time. Documentation of what German, Japanese, Italian, and American fascists and progressives did and believed is extensive and widely available in archives. Your claim is as absurd as the flat earth theory.

                Modern Israel has nothing to do with this. I don’t particularly care about Israel or the Palestinians either way. What crimes Israel may have committed is irrelevant to the crimes committed by progressives and Nazis.

                1. What physical evidence have you seen?

                  Name the German or Jewish witness and describe their claimed experience.

                  When testimony is paid or coerced it is inadmissible.

                  When it is illegal to refute ridiculous claims of manufactured evidence there can be no objection forensic analysis.

                  For what reason other than covering up a conspiracy, would it be necessary to criminalize evidence of that conspiracy?

                  I challenge you to provide another example of mere evidence being criminalized.

                  1. There is a huge amount of documentation you can find online: German government records and directives; court cases against perpetrators; claims fit reparations; records of expropriation; confessions; personal diaries by perpetrators and victims; film and photographic evidence from both Germans and allies; forensic examination of mass graves; genealogical and tax records. Much of that is online.

                    But, again, in addition to all that, I have met Jewish victims and the families of victims personally.

                    Holocaust denial is just plain stupid.

                    1. You have provided nothing specific as evidence because when every single piece of the lie is looked at closely it can be refuted.

                      Provide something specific in what you consider irrefutable detail, I date you.

                    2. For example,

                      You’ve met victims of what exactly because I thought the crime was mass murder?

                    3. I pointed you to the Wikipedia page; it links to evidence.

                      Yes, for every single piece of evidence, you can come up with possible alternative explanations in terms of coincidences or fraud. But such explanations don’t works when you have thousands of independent pieces of evidence. That’s how evidence always works.

                      I’ve met survivors of the camps, as well as children whose parents were killed in the camps. I’ve also met refugees from Germany.

                      You haven’t even formulated any coherent alternative hypothesis. Fact is that millions of Jews disappeared between the 1930s and 1945; their property was transferred to non Jews; a fraction of them ended up as refugees in the US and the Middle East. What is your explanation for what happened in between? What were the motivations of the participants? Where is your evidence?

                    4. There has been no unbiased forensic analysis of the data regarding how many Jews Jews went anywhere.

                      It is illegal to demonstrate that the holocaust narrative is a lie so all the data isn’t available for analysis.

                      It speaks volumes that you can’t even provide a single example of evidence of proof of a holocaust that you aren’t afraid I will refute.

                      Jews practiced with success falsely claiming holocausts of six million Jews 166 times before WW2.

                      During WW2 ALL the propaganda might of the allies were employed to misinform people of the holocaust story once again and it is still easily refuted wherever the evidence isn’t illegal to share.

                      There is a lot of misinformation because there is a lot at stake when this conspiracy is exposed.

                      A total loss of respect for our history and our government. Zero sympathy and support for the apartheid state called Israel. And jail for all conspirators.

                    5. There has been no unbiased forensic analysis of the data regarding how many Jews Jews went anywhere.

                      The Polish census of 1931 found 3.1 million Jews living in Poland, 2.4 million native Yiddish speakers, 0.24 million native Hebrew speakers. The original census report is widely available, including on the Internet Archive.

                      Who, in your opinion, manipulated that data, how, and for what purpose?

                      it is still easily refuted wherever the evidence isn’t illegal to share.

                      So far, you have misrepresented the action of Zyklon B, you have denied basic demographic and census information, and you have provided no plausible alternative explanation for what actually happened, or even a plausible motivation for the kind of deception you allege happened.

                      You can share whatever "evidence" you like. So far, you have shared nothing.

                    6. Where did polish Jews go?

                      Let us start from the last census in Poland before the war, in 1931. It registered 3.1 million Jews in Poland. We have every reason to assume that this number had fallen drastically by September 1939. Considering the situation in Poland in those years, a substantial Jewish emigration would have been the natural outcome of the circumstances. Prior to 1933, large numbers of Polish Jews had emigrated to the United States, to Germany, and to France. Many Polish Jews had relatives in the USA which facilitated emigration. This ongoing emigration certainly received an impetus when Hitler assumed power in Germany (1933) and the Polish government endorsed (1937) Jabotinsky's plan to transfer 1.5 million East European Jews to Palestine within a decade (Encyclopaedia Judaica).

                      Finally, in October 1938, the Polish government issued a decree making Polish passports invalid for re-entry into Poland without official prolongation. The decree was primarily directed against Polish Jews living in Germany. The German government reacted to this by transporting the Polish Jews residing in Germany with special trains to the German-Polish border in order to enable those Jews to renew their passports before they expired. The Polish border troops, however, refused to let those Polish citizens enter Polish territory, even though their passports were still valid. With those thousands of Jews who found themselves in "nowhere" land between Germany and Poland for several days until Germany finally had to give in and re-admit the then stateless Jews, was the couple Grynspan, parents of Herschel Grynspan, who at that time lived in Paris. After he learned about the situation of his parents, he assassinated the German embassy secretary Ernst von Rath, who, as is well known, died as a result of the injuries on November 9th. From this event arose the so-called "Reichskristallnacht," the pogrom against the Jews.

                    7. I’m betting that any patent for zyklon b would also include the equipment necessary to use it.

                    8. Where did polish Jews go? Let us start from the last census in Poland before the war, in 1931. It registered 3.1 million Jews in Poland. We have every reason to assume that this number had fallen drastically by September 1939. Considering the situation in Poland in those years, a substantial Jewish emigration would have been the natural outcome of the circumstances. Prior to 1933, large numbers of Polish Jews had emigrated to the United States, to Germany, and to France.

                      The Jewish population of the US rose from 4.2 million in 1930 to 5 million in 1950, a gain of only 800000; the UK's grew from 300000 to about 450000; the Jewish population of Palestine grew from 175000 in 1931 to 543000 in 1946. Jewish populations in continental Europe fell across the board, by a total of millions of Jews (from 3 million to 45000 in Poland alone).

                      Those trends are also obvious if you visit the different countries and look at historical and present indications of Jewish communities.

                      So, your hypothesis simply doesn't work at all and your numbers don't add up.

                    9. I’m betting that any patent for zyklon b would also include the equipment necessary to use it.

                      It does, in the sense that it lists no equipment and emphasizes how quick and simple the application is.

                      And consistent with that, descriptions of the gas chambers state that the pellets were simply dropped in through holes in the wall and ceiling.

                    10. Provide the link to the website that you ostensibly referenced regarding the zyklon b patent.

                      Why? Because I don’t believe what you’re claiming. You must have a link. Provide it.

                      There are lots of other nations that you haven’t mentioned which probably had similar percentages of Jewish immigration.

                    11. Provide the link to the website that you ostensibly referenced regarding the zyklon b patent.

                      Why? Because I don’t believe what you’re claiming. You must have a link. Provide it.

                      It's a patent. It's published on many sites. You can't type "DE 438818" into a search engine?

                      https://patents.google.com/patent/DE438818C/en

                      You can also find a number of scientific publications from the 1920's that give further details. Those are found in libraries.

                    12. I don’t know what that’s a patent for but nowhere does it say zyklon b.

                      Do you want to try again?

                    13. I don’t know what that’s a patent for but nowhere does it say zyklon b.

                      "Zyklon B" is the trademark for the substance described in the patent. Obviously, the invention and patenting of the substance have to occur before the sale and marketing.

                      You can follow the inventor's publications (Dr Walter Heerdt) to get more information.

                      Do you want to try again?

                      If you are confused about any other facts, please feel free to ask.

                    14. “Zyklon b is the trademark for the substance described in the patent”

                      Bullshit! Prove it. Your whole argument is based on splitting hairs between products and their characteristics designed by Degesch relating to one name zyklon b. Your patent could be for any of their products. Without the name zyklon b you have zero evidence to support your claim.

                      Like I said, do you want to try again?

                    15. “Zyklon b is the trademark for the substance described in the patent” Bullshit! Prove it. Your whole argument is based on splitting hairs between products and their characteristics designed by Degesch relating to one name zyklon b. Your patent could be for any of their products. Without the name zyklon b you have zero evidence to support your claim.

                      I'm not making an argument, you are. Your argument is that Jews could not have been killed using hydrogen cyanide in the facilities that were found because of temperature and lack of various other technical facilities.

                      But the substance described in the patent can clearly be used in that way: it releases hydrogen cyanide gas within 10 minutes, even down to 50F, and it can be dropped in through simple openings in walls and ceilings.

                      So your claim is wrong. It's disproven. Period.

                      Now, to see that the substance described in the patent is actually Zyklon B, you'll have to look at the literature, as I told you before. Since you are apparently incapable of using Google Scholar, the reference is

                      W. Heerdt: "Zyklon B, ein verbessertes Blausäureverfahren", Verhandlungen Deutsch. Ges. angew. Ent., 1924.

                      The author of the scientific paper is the same person who also wrote the patent.

                    16. Until you can demonstrate that your patent description is for zyklon b, it isn’t evidence.

                      If it’s in the literature, prove be it. Link to it.

                    17. I've given you a link to the original patent, plus a reference to the scientific literature. Since this was pre-Internet, you'll have to look it up at your local university library. If you want to see even more evidence, you may find this collection of legal cases useful; by their nature, evidence in trials is public and well documented: Sammlung deutscher Strafurteile wegen nationalsozialistischer Tötungsverbrechen 1945–1999. Hrsg. von Christiaan F. Rüter u.a. Bd. XIII. Amsterdam: Amsterdam UP 1975, S. 100–225.L BASF tells you themselves that they manufactured Zyklon B, that it is a form of hydrogen cyanide, and that it was used in gas chambers.

                      I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove. Zyklon B was only one of many ways in which Nazis killed Jews. Even if you completely disregard the Zyklon B deaths, Nazis still killed millions of Jews (and others) by other means: shooting, starvation, disease, medical experiments, etc.

                      It's been fascinating to see how weak the position of holocaust deniers actually is; you have no evidence and not even an alternative hypothesis. Your ideas fail basic demographic, statistical, scientific, and evidentiary tests. Whether you want to face that fact at some point or not is really up to you.

                    18. Chemical companies file all kinds of patents for many formulations.

                      So you admit that you cannot demonstrate that the specific patent you’re calling zyklon b actually is.

                      There’s no reason anyone should believe your claim.

                    19. What you fail to recognize is that refuting even one element of the holocaust story refutes the entire story.

                      Do you want to create a new story? Number 167 maybe?

                    20. So you admit that you cannot demonstrate that the specific patent you’re calling zyklon b actually is.

                      To the contrary, I pointed you to a publication by the author of the patent. You can find other scientific publications that describe what Zyklon B is and how it acts. Go look them up at your local university library.

                      What you fail to recognize is that refuting even one element of the holocaust story refutes the entire story.

                      As I have explained to you over and over again, "the Holocaust story" is not, and has never been, that "Nazis murdered six million Jews with Zyklon B". That is a straw man of your creation.

                      To quote Wikipedia: "The murders were carried out in pogroms and mass shootings; by a policy of extermination through labor in concentration camps; and in gas chambers and gas vans in German extermination camps." Deaths in camps, gas chambers and gas vans accounted for only a fraction of the total deaths, and refuting any one of those execution methods does nothing to cast doubt on the Holocaust as a whole.

                      Fundamentally, if you want to disprove the Holocaust, you need to explain what happened to many millions of Jews and other civilians that, according to census data, disappeared from the face of the earth between 1930 and 1945. They did not end up in Palestine, the US, the UK, or continental Europe. Or you have to explain how census data from a dozen countries could be manipulated.

                    21. An author of some patent that doesn’t even mention the name of the product is not proof of anything.

                      I’m pointing to you to bring proof here or admit you can’t.

                      Zyklon b, prussic acid has a boiling/ gassing point of 78.3 F. I’ve given you to the link to proof of that.

                      Throwing zyklon b pellets onto a cold floor doesn’t release cyanide gas.

                    22. I’ve proved that the holocaust story is refuted.

                      There is zero evidence of millions of Jews being killed and plenty of evidence of Jews emigrating before the war. Unless every potential nation kept clear records of Jew immigration there is no telling where they went.

                      I don’t need to prove where Jews emigrated to refute the holocaust.

                      I have used logic and science to prove that individual holocaust elements are impossible.

                    23. I’ve proved that the holocaust story is refuted.

                      Well, you go on telling that yourself! How many minds have you actually changed?

                      As far as I'm concerned, reviewing the published evidence for this discussion has strengthened my belief that the holocaust happened as it is usually described.

                    24. You aren’t considering the counter arguments.

                      That’s bigotry.

                    25. You aren’t considering the counter arguments.

                      Dozens of responses, citations, and counterarguments to yours show otherwise. I have considered your arguments and find them to be unscientific nonsense.

                      That’s bigotry.

                      Yes, I am indeed quite bigoted against Holocaust deniers, Nazi sympathizers, fascists, communists, and socialists. Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

                    26. At least you’re admitting your bigotry.

                      Yes, bigotry is always a bad thing.

                      When my argument is supported by reality, I don’t need to censor your counter arguments because you can never refute it.

      3. "How is adding a disclaimer a violation of free speech?"

        Well, is there any evidence they do it to podcasts that abide by the narrative? Even when wildly incorrect?

    2. Too bad Whoopi's grand parents were not in Germany around, say 1940.

  15. I honestly can't understand not listening to music I like because of the artist's politics. I honestly can't understand not using a service I like because of the politics of someone they host.

    1. Neil Young’s downloads were low and thought this would be a good way to generate some cash.

      1. Cause controversy and get back in the papers.

        1. Virtue signaling for fun and profit.

          Sirius is now playing him 24/7 on one of their channels. Not sure if they saw it as a market opportunity to pick up subscribers or just part and parcel of their general love of all things statism, particularly Covid fearmongering.

    2. I honestly can't understand not listening to music I like because of the artist's politics.

      Well, that's a good policy for instrumental music and maybe some entertainment.

      But a lot of music has lyrics that are political, moral, and/or religious in nature, and putting such ideas in musical form is intended to manipulate and propagandize.

      Do you enjoy listening to music that advocates killing homosexuals or Christians, raping women, or a socialist revolution?

  16. Who do you trust more about COVID? A legendary rock star or the world's most popular podcaster?

    Neither, next question. (Though Joe Rogan is better as a comedian/talk show host than Neil Young is as a singer. Joe Rogan was funny on NewsRadio and as a talk show host gives Libertarians and Atheists/Secularists/Skeptics a fair voice.)

    But as for the realm of Medicine, does Robby think that reality is as malleable as his gelled-up locks and that expertise is established by clicks and hits and Billboard Charts?

    Free thought and free expression are the vehicle for finding truth, including truth on Medicine, but obviously not everything put out there is equally valid.

    Caveat Emptor! (Let The Buyer Beware!)

    1. Neil Young is a known science denier. He holds many of the absurd health, economic, and environmental belief of scientifically illiterate hippies and pushes them on others.

      Joe Rogan interviews people; he isn’t trying to push his beliefs on others.

  17. Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Masks, and the Deadly Falsehoods Surrounding Them
    Google/YouTube, Facebook, and Twitter are acting as a megaphone of the deadly falsehoods propagated by the CDC and WHO while silencing their critics.
    https://www.justfacts.com/news_face_masks_deadly_falsehoods
    You are being lied too, and the government is trying to shut up the truth.

  18. Joe Rogan is a talk show. Those musicians are free to pull their music, Joe Rogan and his guests are free to speak.

    It may have been an easier decision for Spotify since the musicians pulling their music are popular from 2 generations ago. Losing the 70-death demographic will not matter.

  19. In 1966, there were (at least) four channels. National Educational Television (NET) had been operating since 1954.

  20. Id tell yall how to download everything neil (old and stupid) young ever performed in but honestly i dont think anyone wants it.

  21. What happened to "Rocking in the free world, Neil"? So you throw a tantrum over Rogan's promotion of Ivermectin after all the pounds of cocaine you sucked up your nostrils? Way to go hypocrite.

  22. This is a good example of intolerance by those who claim to be tolerant.
    Joe Rogan is a talk show host who brings people on who have a story to tell. In this case it was someone with a PHD who happened to be involved with the creation of the MRNA technology and who happens to know a thing or two.
    So in this case the argument strayed from the 3X5 index card of allowable opinion and into territory where people can actually lose their jobs for uttering such heresies.
    This is having the same effect on the vaxxine zombies and Branch Covidian theology as if someone held up a cross in front of them.
    The outrage! At a time when all the steps we were forced to take that would flatten the curve after two weeks. which turned into two years. The made up nonsense about wearing masks. The lockdowns...all of which did nothing to stop people from getting sick.
    None of it.
    The sorry state of affairs when people, especially people with the knowledge who dare speak out and contradict the accepted narrative, even when that narrative is proven wrong..time and again indicates people are suffering from cognitive dissonance, the inability to accept factual evidence.
    America is failing, socially, politically and economically. The First Amendment means nothing anymore especially to the twenty and thirty somethings. In fact the latest polls suggest they support socialism over anything else. They don't support the First Amendment let alone the Second.
    When a nation begins to censure critics and those who tell the truth because of weak people who run the government, weak politicians, weak college administrators and instructors and most of a weak citizenry, intolerant of any views and opinions other than what they've been told to accept, then that nation is headed for a downward spiral into oblivion.
    When the truth is trampled on in favor of woke, political correctness then dialogue is the first victim.

  23. Such a strange, fearful decade ... these hysterical displays-of- vulnerability 20's.

    In the 60's, learning how to listen to wild claims was considered a life-skill worth learning. The wildness purveyor was appreciated for the skill of challenging orthodoxy without lapsing into paranoia or emotionalism. Concealment and suppression of hysteria was essential to credibility. Creativity and a sense of humor really helped.

    It was a board game for parties, without the board.

  24. I remember when Neil Young got his Medical PhD . . .

    Oh, wait! What?

    So now stoners with quavery voices and inane lyrics are telling us who has valid knowledge of what's healthy, or not. 'Look at the evidence' is apparently too difficult for the average person of Liberal bent. 'Listen to the "Leaders"' is now the height of intelligence.

    Remember: "In the desert, you can remember your name, cause there ain't no-one for to give you no pain" (and, apparently, no source for weed).

  25. No, free speech does not win. Spotty just censored 70 of Joe's archived shows and will be keeping him on a leash from now on. Whattaya think they paid all that money for?

  26. I'm not sure what Neil Young thinks he's accomplishing. Sure, he's made a 'statement': that he doesn't believe in free speech! But I don't do Spotify, I don't listen to Joe Rogan, and I've already got my share of Neil Young's music on my playlist.

  27. I've given you a link to the original patent, plus a reference to the scientific literature. Since this was pre-Internet, you'll have to look it up at your local university library. If you want to see even more evidence, you may find this collection of legal cases useful; by their nature, evidence in trials is public and well documented: Sammlung deutscher Strafurteile wegen nationalsozialistischer Tötungsverbrechen 1945–1999. Hrsg. von Christiaan F. Rüter u.a. Bd. XIII. Amsterdam: Amsterdam UP 1975, S. 100–225.L BASF tells you themselves that they manufactured Zyklon B, that it is a form of hydrogen cyanide, and that it was used in gas chambers.

    I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove. Zyklon B was only one of many ways in which Nazis killed Jews. Even if you completely disregard the Zyklon B deaths, Nazis still killed millions of Jews (and others) by other means: shooting, starvation, disease, medical experiments, etc.

    It's been fascinating to see how weak the position of holocaust deniers actually is; you have no evidence and not even an alternative hypothesis. Your ideas fail basic demographic, statistical, scientific, and evidentiary tests. Whether you want to face that fact at some point or not is really up to you.

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