History

The Founding Fathers Thought America Was Doomed

“The fact that it hasn't ended in the past 230 years suggests that maybe [it will] last a good deal longer,” says historian Dennis C. Rasmussen, author of Fears of a Setting Sun: The Disillusionment of America's Founders

|

HD Download

For those who predict that the American experiment can't last, and who worry the social fabric is disintegrating at a time of rising political division, it's worth remembering that back when the ink had barely dried on the Constitution, the Founding Fathers were deeply pessimistic about the future of the country they had created. 

Alexander Hamilton called the Constitution a "frail and worthless fabric." George Washington lamented the growth of political factions. John Adams thought a lack of civic virtue doomed the republic. Jefferson watched sectional divisions between North and South with horror, and said that the "sacrifice" made "by the generation of '76" was "useless" because it would be "thrown away by the unwise and unworthy passions of their sons."

"My only consolation," he wrote, "is to be that I live not to weep over it."

"Their pronouncements may seem overly dramatic to the modern ear," says Syracuse University Professor Dennis C. Rasmussen. In his new book, Fears of a Setting Sun: The Disillusionment of America's Founders, Rasmussen wrestles with the Founding Founders' dour outlook on the future of the country.

"I think that's because they thought that so much was at stake. They really thought that the future of republican government and the future of human liberty was riding on this American experiment….The potential failure of that experiment they thought would be a world-historical calamity."

Should Americans see the Founders' dissolution as a sign that America is flawed beyond hope? We're still beset by many of the same fears.  

"We hear people pronounce the end of American democracy at every turn," says Rasmussen. "The fact that it hasn't ended in the past 230 years suggests that maybe [it will] last a good deal longer."

"But the fact that these problems have been with us since the very outset, since the founders themselves, suggest that they might be more systemic, more baked in than we sometimes dare to hope."

Produced and edited by Meredith Bragg.

NEXT: Great Moments in Unintended Consequences (Vol. 4)

HD Download

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. The Founding Fathers were right, the American Experiment only lasted about 75 years, as long as it took to go from “When in the course of human events” to “Hey, buddy, where the fuck do you think you’re going?”.

      1. Making money online more than 15OOO$ just by doing simple work from home. I have received $18376 last month. Its an easy and simple job to do and its earnings are much better than regular office job and even a little child can do this and earns money. Everybody must try this job by just use the info
        on this page…..VISIT HERE

    1. And soon after, “That thing you made belongs to the state, and we will decide who benefits.)

      1. We need to get our national priorities in order

        Make The America’s Cup great again.

        1. But America as a geopolitical entity doesn’t have testicles, why does it need a cup?

          1. It took a lot of balls to get it by outsailing the fastest boats in the world in 1851, and keep it for 132 years by defeating all comers 22 times in a row.
            The present Ungreatness is that the outfit that defended it has lost eight straight trying to retreive it.

            1. Everybody can earn 500 dollars Daily… Yes! you can earn more than you think by working online from home. I have been doing this job for like a few weeks and my last week payment was exactly 25370 dollars.

              COPY This Website OPEN HERE………… READ MORE

    2. 75 years give or take a decade. Didn’t make it to the civil war.
      On another note, always thought Heinlein in “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” did a nice quick summary of Jefferson’s role:

      “Besides, there is something we need them for, later.” “Thought you said they could do nothing.” “They won’t do this. One man will write it—a dead man—and late at night when they are very tired, they’ll pass it by acclamation.” “Who’s this dead man? You don’t mean Mike?” “No, no! Mike is far more alive than those yammerheads. The dead man is Thomas Jefferson—first of the rational anarchists, my boy, and one who once almost managed to slip over his non-system through the most beautiful rhetoric ever written. But they caught him at it, which I hope to avoid. I cannot improve on his phrasing; I shall merely adapt it to Luna and the twenty-first century.” “Heard of him. Freed slaves, nyet?” “One might say he tried but failed.”

    3. Everybody can earn 500 dollars Daily… Yes! you can earn more than you think by working online from home. I have been doing this job for like a few weeks and my last week payment was exactly 25370 dollars.

      COPY This Website OPEN HERE………… JOBS APP

    4. America is still going strong. Commies known as democrats are trying hard to tear it down from inside and outside government.

      Democrats got their ass beat in civil war 1.0.

      Civil war 2.0’s resolution will determine if America survives. Democrats are desperate because the writing is on the wall. Doubtful democrats will get pardons this time. It will likely be deportation to commie china or bloodletting. You cant compromise with commie democrats who actively try to destroy this constitutional democratic republic. They dont think we should exist. Not much middle ground with that position.

  2. and who worry the social fabric is disintegrating at a time of rising political division,

    Us secular humanists are slowly winning the culture war and America will become even stronger.

    1. Said every marxist regime in history.

      1. Odd how your political philosophy depends on blind allegiance to a non-existent supreme being who entrusted just your party to interpretation of our rights.

        1. It doesn’t. In fact I’m agnostic. But you seem driven by the purpose of secular humanists which has been at the core of all marxist ideology.

          Ironic that you demand something, secularism, while I prefer to let people choose religion if they so choose.

          Unsure the one pushing authoritarian gains that have been a core tenet of expanding and authoritarian governments.

          You put faith in government, not humanity and the individual.

          1. The Establishment Clause makes us a secular country from a governing standpoint. If an individual wants to practice a silly religion that is fine by me. But without fail believers want to impose their belief on others by using government force.

            As a HUMANIST I put my faith in individuals only. That is the definition of “humanist”. I reject “faith” as a virtue. As the great Mark Twain said “Faith is believin’ something you know ain’t true”.

            As a staunch capitalist and atheist I am more closely aligned with Ayn Rand than anyone here (unless there is an Objectivist here – which I doubt.).

            Remember Ayn Rand campaigned against Reagan because he wasn’t a true capitalist individual.

            Conservatism is garbage. And Aaron Lewis is a talentless hack.

            1. “But without fail believers want to impose their belief on others by using government force”

              Do you have an example you can give us of “imposing religious beliefs using government force“, because that sounds like total horseshit to me.

              1. Forced school prayer. Thankfully us ACLU donors are winning that one for now.

                I am no fan of the Madrasa like you conservatives are.

                1. What forced school prayer? What government body is forcing or forced kids to pray in American public schools?

                  Furthermore as far as I can recall, evangelical atheists have been trying to ban students who want to pray of their own volition. That’s just as big a violation of the establishment clause as forcing them to pray.
                  You fundamentalist ‘unbelievers’ always deliberately forget the “or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” part, when banging on about the first.

                  1. What forced school prayer? What government body is forcing or forced kids to pray in American public schools?

                    It was only the hated TOP MEN IN ROBES that put an end to forced public school prayer.

                    1. https://twitter.com/OrangePartisan/status/1411499709760479237?s=19

                      1. You want to believe this is an aberration. Just lawless mental illness run amok in the weird state. Not your problem, anyway.

                      But that’s not quite right.

                      There’s power behind this- voracious and cruel- and it eviscerates the Gospel of MLK and “Don’t Tread on Me”…
                      [Link]

                      2. What you see here isn’t just ideology- these are the tendrils of a revolutionary regime which took root decades ago, and like the creeping Kudzu- slowly enveloped the almighty Constitution and strangled it..

                      3. We’ve spent the better part of a half century convincing ourselves that there’s still a majestic oak beneath that suffocating twist and tangle of vines, but in moments like these, we know the truth.

                      Things are more precarious than ever.

                      4. This regime- born in the hot & heavy summer of ‘64 when a dead president’s blood was still drying on the Dallas asphalt – has no use for Aristotle, Cicero, Locke, or centuries of Western ferment. It has a mandate from Heaven, after all, and judicial and bureaucratic procedures

                      5. It’s already taken a heap of scalps-so many that we’ve all lost count- some belonging to folks that had the world at their fingertips; people much more important than a scandalized woman at a plebeian spa in Los Angeles.

                      6. We’ve seen this time and again, stretching back decades even. The terrifying power of the Civil Rights regime and its heavenly mandate to pulverize anything remotely discriminatory is just too great…

                      7. No 18th century parchment, no grand philosophical tradition, no amount of patriotism, and not even the fear of God can compete with this machine- not even a parent’s desire to protect their own flesh and blood from a pedophile.

                      8. In the good ole days it was racism, and then sexism, nativism, and homophobia.

                      And now it’s… this.

                      But in addition to lawyers, hustlers, and bureaucrats, we’re now dealing with street mobs who terrorize a public tortured by totalitarian administrativa, with violence.

                      9. You might expect this appetite to someday wane, or that our once majestic oak shrouded by its strangling vine will show its face again. But you would be wrong.

                      Nothing will satiate this regime, and our Founding promise has been rendered little more than ink on faded parchment

                      10. There are few options left, but one thing every honest man can do is reject the fantasy and deny this regime consensus. Sure it’s damn close to heresy, and you might find yourself chained to a pyre, but I’d argue that silent acquiescence is far more risky at this point.

                    2. Gee what a surprise. Some idiots behave badly and here come the usual suspects to project their worst fears onto it.

                      “Some guy beat up a woman, this can only mean CREEPING COMMUNISM is on the way!!”

                    3. Leftists are cancer.
                      Die now.

                    4. Hold on, what “forced public school prayer”?

                      You two shitweasels still haven’t answered that.

                    5. You are much more likely to die than the rest of us. Carrying around all that hate and fear is not good for you.

                    6. Nothing is more hateful and fearful than a leftist.

                  2. How about the one that begins: “I pledge allegiance…” ?

                    1. Not a prayer

                    2. Not a prayer

                      Then you’d be fine with doing away with the “under God” part?

                      How about “In God We Trust”?

                    3. @JasonT20
                      God =/= religion

                    4. @JasonT20
                      1) No one is compelled to cite the pledge. People have the option to not participate.
                      2) I also suggest you read this:
                      https://nationallegalfoundation.org/briefings/defending-in-god-we-trust/

                      God bless

                    5. God =/= religion

                      Huh? Are you saying that mentioning “God” is somehow a generic saying that isn’t religious in nature? And that is flatly contradicted by the entire argument of that defense of “In God We Trust”, which begins,

                      “On July 30, 1956, President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed a law declaring “In God We Trust” the official motto of the United States. Public Law 84-851 was based upon a 90 year tradition of inscribing “In God We Trust” upon American coins and a centuries old heritage of recognizing God’s sovereignty in our nation’s affairs.”

                      That defense of the motto is entirely based on religion.

                    6. 1) No one is compelled to cite the pledge. People have the option to not participate.

                      You are correct on the law, but not about how it plays out in the real world.

                      This is just one example of people that don’t understand the Constitution and think that their religion gets to be supported and enforced by government. I could provide links all day of this kind of thing happening.

                  3. What forced school prayer? What government body is forcing or forced kids to pray in American public schools?

                    Florida’s governor signed a new law that requires public schools to start every school day with a “moment of silence” that must be between one and two full minutes. Does it force students to pray? No. Does it send a message that students are expected to pray? Pretty close. There really isn’t much doubt that this is what the Republicans that were behind this really want (though many Democrats in the state legislature also voted for it, it was a Republican that introduced it, and the rhetoric in its favor is something religious conservatives are always on about).

                    “The idea that you can just push God out of every institution and be successful, I’m sorry, our Founding Fathers did not believe that,” DeSantis said, shortly before signing the measure behind a placard that read “protect religious liberty.””

                    The disingenuous accusation is that students were somehow prevented from praying in public schools because there wasn’t some kind of organized time set aside for it that all teachers and students would have to acknowledge. The law says that teachers can’t “make suggestions as to the nature of any reflection that a student may engage in during the moment of silence,” and students “may not interfere with other students’ participation.” But is that really going to stop conservative Christian teachers from pushing their beliefs on students? Public schools have been legally forbidden from teaching Biblical creationism since 1987 (Edwards v. Aguillard), but surveys of science teachers still show significant numbers of them pushing creationists ideas, while many others either avoid teaching evolution or water it down and cast doubt on its validity.

                    1. “Florida’s governor signed a new law that requires public schools to start every school day with a “moment of silence” that must be between one and two full minutes. Does it force students to pray? No.”

                      Then we have a non-issue here. What’s wrong with restoring an individual’s right for a prayer at the beginning of school?

                    2. Then we have a non-issue here. What’s wrong with restoring an individual’s right for a prayer at the beginning of school?

                      What’s wrong with it is that you seem to think that an individual’s right for prayer was ever curtailed in public school. What this law does is enforce a common time when everyone else has to remain quiet as those individuals pray. Why is it that they couldn’t pray before the left home, if they needed a moment of quiet? Why does it have to be in class and make everyone else stay quiet for up to two minutes? The answer is that they want that to be a public ritual. They want everyone to think that praying at the start of the school day is the right thing to do. Put plainly, they want to enforce cultural and religious conformity with the power of government.

                2. So you’re not a fan of education unless it’s done on an individual basis instead of institutionally? Or are you confused and think religion is tied to the word madrasa because you can’t speak the language?

            2. Mark Twain was a Satan worshipping Freemason.

            3. In the Freemason ideology, Satan is god and there is no difference between good and evil.

              Is that what you believe makes America great?

              1. Your so-called “Truths” are sadly outdated! It wasn’t the Freemasons that did it, it was the Lizard People!

                To REALLY be “hip” and with it, HERE, you must believe the stylish lies that Anthony Quinn did, about Lizard Men!
                https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nashville-bomber-anthony-quinn-sent-conspiracy-theories-to-people-before-explosion/
                Nashville bomber sent writings espousing conspiracy theories to multiple people days before blast

                Anthony Quinn told me so! It must be true! From the above link…
                Warner’s writings also discuss the conspiracy theory that Earth is controlled by a race of reptilian lizard people.
                “They put a switch into the human brain so they could walk among us and appear human,” Warner wrote.

            4. The Establishment Clause makes us a secular country from a governing standpoint.

              The Establishment Clause only applied to the federal government. States within the US could, and did, establish religions. That only came to an end during the 20th century because SCOTUS unilaterally declared that the Constitution now also limits the states in some ways.

              As a HUMANIST I put my faith in individuals only. As a staunch capitalist and atheist I am more closely aligned with Ayn Rand than anyone here

              You’re an intolerant bigot, and people like you are the prime enablers of totalitarian regimes.

              1. By unilaterally you mean the 14th amendment.

          2. “In fact I’m agnostic.”

            Liar! You’ve turned YOURSELF into the Perfect God, Expert on Everything, Who NEVER admits error about ANYTHING!

            A little old-style religion… Which prominently featured a thing you probably never heard of, called “humility”… Might do you good! Setting ASIDE the “beyond the beyond” totally (ignoring the “beyond the beyond”, the same way that truly intelligent people ignore most of what you write, other than to desperately TRY to fix your goofs for other readers who might be deceived,or who WANT to believe your lies)… Ignoring metaphysics, Jesus was amazing CORRECT, even from a secular standpoint! See http://www.churchofsqrls.com/Jesus_Validated/

            Try the below on for size… Ponder it and see if it might apply to YOU!

            Blessed Are the Poor in Spirit

            How does anyone teach anything to a know-it-all? How does anyone coach another person, on how to become a better person, when he or she already holds himself or herself to be perfect? What stands in the way? Narcissism, arrogance, self-righteousness, and so forth. You cannot add anything to a vessel that is already full, or full of itself. What more needs to be added to this? Not much that I can see right now…

            In modern parlance, “echo chambers” are also an impediment to open minds, and learning. So is “projection”, a psychological term meaning that we assume that everyone else is (and thinks like, and is motivated the same as) just like us. If we can’t be earnest, honest, or benevolent, we assume that other can’t be those things, either. Last but not least, there is “confirmation bias”, or hearing only what we want to hear! THAT most certainly does NOT help us to learn new things, or un-learn old, wrong things!

            So be ye “poor in spirit”, and ye can learn new things! And probably just as important, you can un-learn wrong, old things!

            1. Buttplug and Sqrlsy, together at last.

              1. Mother’s Lament
                Bimbosday, 43 Bimbobember 2020 at 6:66 PM

                I lust after being abused by power-mad politicians, because I am power-mad myself! And I suffer under the utterly stupid illusion that power-mad politicians will feed me, like a doggy under the table, a wee few, tiny scraps of their vast powers. Biden came up here to Canoodlestanistanistanistanistan to noodle me and my poodle, and give me nookie, with my Wookie and my bookie, but all that Biden would do, is smell my hair! So I lust after Der TrumpfenFuhrer to come up here and grab my pussy good and hard!

                1. An actual cite:
                  SQRLSY One
                  November.9.2020 at 4:26 pm

                  Bimsday, 39 Bemberbember 2020 at 6:66 PM
                  I love to LIE my ass off, and suck Satan’s dick! Because I hate humanity! The Evil One is the Father of Lies, just as Der TrumpfenFuhrer is the Stable Genius! So, as the apple falls not far from the tree, I INSIST on telling obvious lies, all day, every day! Butt… Surprise, surprise! Other Evil Ones Junior will fall for my lies… Because they want to!

                  1. *********Mother’s Lament***********
                    (AKA MammaryBahnFuhrer from Canuckistanistanistanistan)

                    Bimsday, 39 Bemberbember 2020 at 6:66 PM
                    I love to LIE my ass off, and suck Satan’s dick! Because I hate humanity! The Evil One is the Father of Lies, just as Der TrumpfenFuhrer is the Stable Genius! So, as the apple falls not far from the tree, I INSIST on telling obvious lies, all day, every day! Butt… Surprise, surprise! Other Evil Ones Junior will fall for my lies… Because they want to!

                    MammaryBahnFuhrer from Canuckistanistanistanistan LOVES to hear the lies that she LOVES to hear! She is a fan of Sidney it seems…

                    https://reason.com/2021/03/23/sidney-powell-says-shes-not-guilty-of-defamation-because-no-reasonable-person-would-have-believed-her-outlandish-election-conspiracy-theory/
                    Sidney Powell Says She’s Not Guilty of Defamation Because ‘No Reasonable Person’ Would Have Believed Her ‘Outlandish’ Election Conspiracy Theory

                    Which particular lies are you wanting to hear and believe today, MammaryBahnFuhrer?

                    1. An actual quote:

                      SQRLSY One
                      December.2.2020 at 7:09 pm

                      Bimbosday, 43 Bimbobember 2020 at 6:66 PM
                      I lust after being abused by power-mad politicians, because I am power-mad myself! And I suffer under the utterly stupid illusion that power-mad politicians will feed me, like a doggy under the table, a wee few, tiny scraps of their vast powers. Biden came up here to Insanestanistanistanistanistan to noodle me and my poodle, and give me nookie, with my Wookie and my bookie, but all that Biden would do, is smell my hair! So I lust after Der BidenFuhrer to come up here and grab my pussy good and hard!

                    2. https://reason.com/2020/11/16/i-won-the-election-tweets-trump-as-legal-losses-stack-up/#comment-8587316

                      Lying asshole omits the fact that I was speaking in Momma’s twisted tongue, as if I was Momma! Momma knows this, but keeps right on lying!

                      Mother’s Lament (AKA MammaryBahnFuhrer from Inner Islamic Canuckistanistanistanistan)
                      Bimsday, 39 Bemberbember 2020 at 6:66 PM
                      I love to LIE my ass off, and suck Satan’s dick! Because I hate humanity! The Evil One is the Father of Lies, just as Der TrumpfenFuhrer is the Stable Genius! So, as the apple falls not far from the tree, I INSIST on telling obvious lies, all day, every day! Butt… Surprise, surprise! Other Evil Ones Junior will fall for my lies… Because they want to!

                    3. No, that was all you Sqrls. People can check it out.

                    4. Yes, people can check it out! That’s why I posted it! They can see that I was “channeling” the EVIL MammaryBahnFuhrer, and speaking her thoughts for her! Which fact YOU, you liar, omitted!

                      (How is your “Expert Christian Theologians for ID Theft” group coming along? Gaining many converts? Or LYING perverts, should I more honestly say?)

                    5. “Or LYING perverts”

                      Aren’t you the one who copped to being into copraphilia and to attempting to molest your psychiatrist, Melvin?

                  2. SQRLSY eats his own shit too.

              1. How’s your stash of “smart pills” from the bottom of the rabbit hutches doing lately? I can tell you’ve been skimping on taking them lately, and you’ll need a LOT more! Better STOCK UP QUICKLY!

                https://nypost.com/2021/07/03/economist-roubini-warns-of-stock-market-crash-and-stagflation/
                Economist Nouriel Roubini warns of ‘train wreck’ stock market crash and ‘stagflation’

                1. Fortunately, shit never declines in an economic crash, so you’ll always have a full pantry.

        2. Odd how SPB2’s political philosophy depends on blind allegiance to t0P mEn and party bosses, but somehow that’s preferable to a concept of the divine.

          Critical thinking obviously isn’t Buttplug’s forte, but I’m sure he believes he’s a rationalist.

          1. Wrong. I have only advocated for democracy (expanded democracy and not just the 18th century version).

            If you get “top men” out of that you must hate the Declaration of Independence (which you could well do).

            1. You’re a consistent shill for authoritarianism here, Buttplug. Who do you think that you’re fooling?

            2. You were literally just pushing secular humanism, a core tenant of marxism.

              1. So no one can believe that humanity can achieve morality without religion without being a marxist? Seems fucking dumb, and Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, John Adams and a few other founders would take issue with that.

                Or are you stretching an argument to the limits of incredulity again?

                Do you have any other tricks you could try once in a while?

            3. I have only advocated for democracy (expanded democracy and not just the 18th century version).

              A socialist then.

          2. Because mob rule would be far more preferable.

            1. Brought to you by Patriotic Trumpanzees gone apeshit!

            2. One can get free shoes during mob rule.

              1. During Dem rule too. It’s not wrong to steal under $1000 in Dem cities.

              2. Not to mention free TVs and a host of other things.

                Hell, if you’re the right skin color and live in certain urban areas, you can just walk in a take anything you want any time, and there isn’t anything the business owner can do about it.

                Brought to you by the “go along to get along because we don’t want to be called racists” liberaltarians.

            3. I’d rather be ruled by the first 100 names in the Baltimore phone book than your Top Men, chemleft.

              1. So what happens when those 100 people decide to confiscate the wealth of the super-rich? After all, it’s highly unlikely that those 100 names will include any billionaires.

                What happens when those 100 people decide to make Christianity the official state religion? Or decide to ban all religion?

                What happens when those 100 people decide that “we just can’t tolerate Muslims in this country” and decide to kick them all out, citizens and all?

                Who will protect your liberties then? Hmm? The mob? Your guns?

                1. ML knows 60 of the first 100 names in the phone book are going to be masochistic Bible-beating authority lovers.

                  1. Insha’ Allah (PBUH).

                  2. It’s awesome how you’re outing yourself as an anti-proletariat, anti-religious class-warrior for corporatists and upmarket clerisy.

                2. https://twitter.com/primalpoly/status/1411725531024867331?s=19

                  Ages of Founding Fathers in 1776:

                  James Monroe: 18
                  Alexander Hamilton: 21
                  James Madison: 25
                  Thomas Jefferson: 33
                  Thomas Paine: 39
                  John Hancock: 39

                3. Yeah, ML doesn’t have an answer for that. Because he’s a faux-populist. He is totally in favor of mob rule, when it’s a mob he approves of. But if it’s a mob that he doesn’t approve of, then he totally wants TOP MEN to bash some heads in.

                  1. No, he’ll bash your head in on his own.

                    1. Someone started drinking early on this holiday.

                    2. Lol, don’t think anyone is surprised collectivistjeff seems completely unfamiliar with July 4th BBQ.
                      How embarrassing.

                  2. “Yeah, ML doesn’t have an answer for that.

                    An answer for what? Your fucking strawman? Because strawmanning is exactly what this is:

                    So what happens when those 100 people decide to confiscate the wealth of the super-rich?
                    What happens when those 100 people decide to make Christianity the official state religion?
                    What happens when those 100 people decide that “we just can’t tolerate Muslims in this country”
                    What if they all build a rocketship to Mars and abandon earth?
                    What if they all stand on their heads and get dizzy”

                    What if? What if? What if?

                    This is middle school sophistry you fucking idiot. You’re too stupid to argue here. Ask your boss at the fifty-cent factory if you can transfer to Disney forums.

                    Since were dealing in what ifs;
                    What if your TopMen crash an economy through subprime lending?
                    What if your TopMen fuck Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya?
                    What if your TopMen crash the world’s economies in a horrendous overreaction to a mildly dangerous virus?
                    What if your TopMen fraud an election, lie about a protest, wrap the capitol up in troops and barbwire, and ban anyone who complains?
                    What if your TopMen make transgender politics the priority for NASA and the Military, rather than space exploration and defense?

                    1. Right so you don’t even understand the basics concerning the perils of mob rule. Because you are a simple-minded tribalist.

                  3. And you’re comment buddies with Buttplug. Who is a pedophile. Good job Jeffy, you actually made a friend who is compatible with you.

              2. I’m originally from Charm City. You should consider taking door number three.

              3. 1. There are better places than Baltimore to get 100 names, far better.
                2. I doubt if there is such a thing as a Baltimore phone book anymore.

            4. Preferable to the Praetorian guard we have now.

        3. That’s because there are lots of people like you who are incapable of respecting other people’s rights without blind allegiance to a non-existent supreme being.

    2. Racial Marxism will fail.

    3. If by secular, you mean blind allegiance to whatever current socio-political activism fits your biases, and by humanist, you mean extreme partisan morality, then you might right about winning the culture war and making the government stronger.

    4. And it shall be called The Great Leap Forward.

      1. I used to dismiss The Power of Nightmares as just anti-war CT but now I know conservatives MUST demonize secular liberty to preserve control of the masses.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyKpjDup8Fw

        Strauss conservatism was Reagan ver 2 in fact.

        1. Needz moar ALL CAPS.

    5. You’re a pedophile.

      1. You’re an anti American traitor?

        Did you not celebrate Independence Day? Or did you burn American flags or something?

        Careful! It’s dry and hot in shithole Spokane.

        No wonder you’re so backwards. You live in shithole Spokane!

        The Zags sure looked good against Baylor!

        1. You probably don’t like basketball seeing as how racist you’re.

        2. You’re confused again. You’re the traitor. Just like every leftist. You and your kind are not capable of patriotism. And don’t you live in Salt Lake City? Probably operating some clandestine glory hole at the local transit authority. As you are a bitchy piece of shit. I’m sure you had your teeth knocked out decades ago. Which I’m guessing is a plus in your line of work.

          Best you just kill yourself, and end your treason once and for all.

          1. I would never live in Salt Lake City. Worst city in the country by far. Spokane’s bad, but Salt Lake is on a whole other level.

            1. Uh huh. Right.

              You live in SLC. You work in some menial job, for a Mormon. Who is your master. Your rantings here express your rage filled delusions.

              1. Goddamn you’re stupid

  3. “Jefferson watched sectional divisions between North and South with horror”

    But it all worked out in the end, right? What pointless, grannyish worrying!

  4. I interested in how the Trump worshipping traitors(Red Rocks, Jesse, Nardz, Mark Thrust) celebrate Independence Day? Do they use the constitution as toilet paper? Burn American flags? Or do they not celebrate? Do they bbq, drink beer(not Red obviously cuz he’s a Mormon pussy), and light fireworks off on Trump’s bday instead?

    I’m genuinely curious?

    1. They probably ignore Independence Day since they all prefer a monarchy with the Con Man as King/Supreme Leader.

        1. “King Donald” just doesn’t sound very regal, does it?

            1. Not as regal as His Imperial Majesty Barack Hussein Obama. I could bust a nut just whispering that name.

              1. Chris Matthews did get a tingle up his leg regarding the nice crease in Obama’s pants. And per (D) Harry Reid, Obama was a light-skinned African American that lacked the Negro dialect.

                1. Yeah Harry Reid’s Mormon so it’s no surprise he’s a racist shitbag.

              2. Ahhh, the imposter Buttplug is here to defend conservatism. You’ll never reach mature plug status.

          1. It does if you give it a little Scottish flavor: “Bonnie King Donald”

      1. Yeah, they had to fraud an election to get old Joe in, fill the capitol with troops and razor wire, censor everyone who talked about it on social media or the news, and try to shutdown every audit attempt, but somehow Trump is the face of impending absolute monarchy.

        Do you ever even try to think before you write shit?

        1. I know, right? Why can’t everyone see that concentration camps for Republicans are right around the corner? Every single article I read (on Breitbart) and every single news program I watch (on Fox News) tells me that impending doom is nigh. Why can’t everyone see this? It’s as plain as day!

          1. That would be collectivist. And likely racist. So you’re on board.

            1. It’s called parody. There are no concentration camps around the corner.

              1. “Around the other corner though, watch out. lol”

              2. Camps are collectivist. And often racist. Right in your wheelhouse.

                1. Right, you’re a moron.

                  1. Thanks for projecting.

                    1. Good one Gumby

                    2. Good one Kiss All Romneys!

                    3. That was clever too.

                      I prefer to kill the Romney’s. Especially Ronna McDaniel the RNC cunt.

                      Fat ugly mormon cunt

              1. Lol, that doesn’t even make sense.
                That must’ve got you really mad. You guys need to keep better track of your bullshit.

                1. It is just a testament to your paranoid mind and your general dishonesty when you equate a statement such as “there should be accountability for those who broke the law on Jan. 6” with a desire for prison camps.

                  I think you’re a weak-minded tribalist fool. Statements made by those in the out-group are to be considered threats against the tribe, even innocuous ones.

                  1. Do you blame “white culture?”

                  2. Nice cherrypick. Now let’s look at the whole thing:

                    De Oppresso Liber
                    January.19.2021 at 12:15 pm

                    Europe did not heal or move on until they had hung a bunch of Nazi’s.

                    History doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes. Stay tuned.

                    De Oppresso Liber
                    January.19.2021 at 3:10 pm

                    I’m not calling for the hanging of Trump supporters, so relax, Francis.

                    I’m saying that there will not be unity until there has been justice and accountability. People need to pay the piper before we move on.

              2. ML lies about everything. He’s either a troll or a compulsive liar.

                1. Well that’s something coming from a troll and a liar who issues actual death threats every day.

                  1. What have I lied about? I’ve been mistaken about things, but I try to acknowledge when I’m wrong.

                    You just spout lie after lie after lie.

                    When I call you a fascist you just claim the definition of fascism isn’t what it says in encyclopedias because “leftists” wrote them. However, you have no problem citing Wikipedia when it suits you.

                    You’re a scumbag. My guess is you resemble the Xmas Nashville bomber Anthony whatever physically? Probably fatter though. Am I close?

                    1. “My guess is you resemble the Xmas Nashville bomber”

                      Meanwhile, just a few posts below:

                      KillAllRednecks
                      July.4.2021 at 4:17 pm

                      Kill Mormons! Lock up traitors

                      And then:

                      “When I call you a fascist you just claim the definition of fascism isn’t what it says in encyclopedias because “leftists” wrote them. However, you have no problem citing Wikipedia when it suits you.”

                      Meanwhile, the Reich Minister of Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, voiced KAR’s most cherished beliefs:

                      “We are socialists because we see in socialism, that is the union of all citizens, the only chance to maintain our racial inheritance and to regain our political freedom and renew our German state.

                      Socialism is the doctrine of liberation for the working class. It promotes the rise of the fourth class and its incorporation in the political organism of our Fatherland, and is inextricably bound to breaking the present slavery and regaining German freedom. Socialism, therefore, is not merely a matter of the oppressed class, but a matter for everyone, for freeing the German people from slavery is the goal of contemporary policy. Socialism gains its true form only through a total fighting brotherhood with the forward-striving energies of a newly awakened nationalism.”
                      https://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/haken32.htm

                      You’re too stupid and ignorant to be trolling here, sarcasmic.
                      The kid’s internet is over there ===>

      2. LOL at the hicklib pederasts conversing.

          1. Kill Mormons! Lock up traitors like you Nardz. Although we should go easy on you given your disability…

        1. Lol at the Mormon coward traitor loling

          1. Lol at the hicklib pederast who still won’t come to Denver even after I gave him the address. A grown man is quite more of a handful than the children he fantasizes about Gacying.

            1. Your real address you pussy traitor?

              1. I gave it to you, you hicklib pederast. When do you plan to show up?

                1. You don’t live at an Islamic center. You’re a Muslim hating Mormon for Christ sake.

                  If I’m a pederast then by your logic you’re gay and are dying of aids.

                  1. You don’t live at an Islamic center.

                    You won’t know until you show up, will you? But you never take that step. Pussy.

                    If I’m a pederast then by your logic you’re gay and are dying of aids.

                    You’ve fantasized about cutting little boys’ dicks off, so you’re hardly one to complain about projection, you hicklib pederast.

                    1. Please show me where I said I fantasized about that?

                      You’re a goddamn liar.
                      You fascists are all liars.

                      It’s pieces of trash like you that are ruining MY country!

                      Goddamn Mormon traitor

    2. Well, whatever the rabble do it will not include group sessions where genteel people commiserate about white guilt, complain that the US is not more like Denmark, and shake their heads over how uncooperative the lower classes can be. And then go home to finish the day watching PBS.

      1. complain that the US is not more like Denmark

        Denmark’s actually imposing civic nationalist indoctrination on its immigrant population. They’re not nearly as self-flagellating as the Norse or Swedes.

    3. Decent Americans mourn that people like you are using the Constitution as toilet paper.

      1. I do no such thing. It’s the Trump worshipping traitors.

    4. No faggot, that’s you. You’re a leftist.

      1. That was meant for Killygirl.

      2. What makes you think I’m a leftist? Even if I am or was it’s better than being a fascist like you. You want to kill over half the country because they disagree with your anti-American far right views.

        You’re a scumbag traitor in shithole Spokane.

  5. Ancient empires could last a thousand years or more. Think Sumerian or Egyptian. Modern empires are lucky if they can break the 300 year barrier. The British managed 400. The French and German empires of the 19th and 20th century respectively lasted only a fraction of that.

    1. The USSR came and went pretty quickly.

      1. As have all collectivist governments. You’d think people would learn.

      2. Napoleonic France and Hitler’s Reich lasted just over a decade.

      3. The USSR lasted 80 years.

      4. It was still Russia just with other strongmen running things. Guess what? It still is.

    2. Sumer and Egypt were more civilizations than empires. The civilizations did indeed have empires from time to time, but like your other examples they too only lasted around 300 years each time.

      …Although one could argue that the American empire is technically British in the same way the Byzantium was Roman.

      1. No you ain’t lumping us in with you commonwealth assholes.

        We fought a war to not have kings or queens.

        That’s why so many people voted against Trump. His talk of three terms and doing whatever he could to hold on to power was too much.

        1. Children’s internet is that way, sarcasmic ===>

          This website is for high school grads.

          1. Yes just claim I’m Sarc if I call out your bullshit.

            Fascist Mormon loving lying scumbag

            1. The Canadian troll is Mormon? Didn’t know. Don’t care.

              Tell you one thing though, his posts look much better in grey without any words.

              1. Samefagging your posts won’t fool anyone.

                1. Homophobe

                  1. You need Jesus.

                    1. Why do you believe I “need Jesus?”

        2. No faggot, you didn’t fight shit. You’re not really American anyway.

          1. More American than a traitor like you who wants to overthrow our government and murder half the country

    3. Is part of that, though, what would have been considered distinct regimes in ancient times all get lumped together by us? For example, the Romans may have thought of republican Rome, imperial Rome, and byzantine Rome as not being the same empire at all.

      1. “what would have been considered distinct regimes in ancient times all get lumped together by us”

        No, if they are distinct regimes they are distinct empires. That’s why a bourgeois republic is not the same as a monarchy. ie the US is not an extension of the British empire, that would have been Canada, Bermuda etc. In ancient Egypt and China and others you get dynasties which are more or less orderly continuations of rule until you have a foreign invasion or whatever.

        An empire is a political clique (Washington, the Kremlin, the royal family) maintaining political control over people in foreign lands. Break up that clique and that’s the end of empire. The Aztec empire essentially ended with the death of Montezuma, the king and emperor, For America to officially end her empire, you need the collapse of constitutional government, national bankruptcy, courts ignored, military coups, insurrections, etc. Secessionist movements too. There’s always Texas, but Hawaii and Alaska have displaced native populations that you can imagine being stirred up.

        1. I’m not sure when mrtrueman used the word, empire, that he meant it literally. He may have meant “big, long-lasting continuous regime”.

      2. I suspect that daily life for the average joe didn’t change all that much when the regimes changed. They still toiled in poverty to pay taxes. All that changed was the collector.

        1. It’s interesting that throughout history wars have been awful times, of course, but they also tend to be times of increased innovation and social change.

          1. I wasn’t thinking about war as much as when the Roman Empire dissolved, or the USSR collapsed. I doubt life changed that much for the average person.

  6. Happy Independence Day! Even to all you far left, America hatin’ whitey hatin’ Obama mommas out there. Here’s hoping that the chains of hate enslaving your minds break free and you truly become independent one day.

  7. A former president on our preservation as a Republic:

    It is only in this way that we can escape socialism. If the individual is lost to our law, he is lost to our politics and to our social structure. If he is merged in the business groups, he is merged in the state, the association that includes all others. Unless we can single him out again and make him once more the subject and object of law, we shall have to travel still further upon the road of government regulation which we have already traveled so far, and that road leads to state ownership. We have not even tried to extend the old roads into this vast new area of business and of corporate enterprise, which recent years have seen open up like a new continent of mind and achievement; and until we have tried, we cannot claim legitimate descent from the founders of the government. We have abandoned their principles without even making trial of their efficacy in a new situation.

    #LeaveGoogleAlone

    1. “It is only in this way that we can escape socialism.”

      At this point socialism is no longer a legitimate threat, at least in the US. Modern American self-described socialists pretend to rebel against “the rich” and “multinational corporations” — then obediently vote for Wall-Street-friendly, billionaire-funded corporate Democrats like Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton.

      1. It is telling how conservatives have joined silly progressives in using “Wall Street” as a pejorative.

        Wall Street does the heavy lifting in capitalism and didn’t complain when some of their members fucked up and later paid tens of billions in fines for prominent roles in the 2008 Financial Collapse.

        1. It is telling that the party who has championed the free market for decades opposes government/market collusions?

          1. Says the right-wing Marxist who wants to nationalize Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc.! AND provide us all with “justice” by punishing “Party A” for the writings of “Party B”!

            (I hope that they punish Der JesseBahnFuhrer for MY writings! Then just MAYBE Der JesseBahnFuhrer ***MIGHT*** learn about what justice really is? There is always hope!)

            1. Says the unwitting fascist who is fine with Democratic politicians ordering Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc to punish “Party A” for the writings of “Party B”!
              The first amendment is Sqrlsy’s toilet paper.

                1. Section 230 is our best hope for permanently silencing everyone who disagrees with us.

                  1. And tell us HOW you think Section 230 could EVER do that?

                    (Either that, or tell us where you get your mind-bending drugs?)

                    1. Fake comment.

                      It is Jesse/Rocks/ML or some other Rick Santorum type spoofing me.

                    2. Sure enough! I can’t see any “hair spaces” with a slow click-and-drag, and am too lazy to investigate further, like with a special web site for checking for invisible characters…

                      But! Butt! Buttplug!!!! I did “mute” the two of you one at a time, as a quick way to check for spoofing, and it works! Shortcut for checking for spoofs, right there!

                    3. PPS, thieves (to include ID thieves) can burn in Hell, as far as I am concerned…

                    4. But folks should not be required to show ID when voting, right?

                    5. Folks who are willing to punch the “Libertarian” ticket in public, under the TV camera’s gaze, shouldn’t be required to show ID. ALL others SHOULD be forced to show ID!

                      But if you think THAT is bad…

                      Just you wait till the Trump-Putin-Kingly-Dear-Leader Loyalists-Royalists scream and holler about imagined massive voter fraud for another few years! Before you can vote, to prove that you are who you say you are, you’ll have to provide DNA to the on-site R-party rep, the D-Party rep, maybe even the L-Party (Green Party, Commie Party, etc.) reps, PLUS the Controlling Local Voting Authority, and THEN you will FINALLY be allowed to vote! And ALL of the “parties to your DNA info” will solemnly pinky-swear to “protect your data”, of course! So, no worries!

                    6. Lol. I’ve never spoofed anyone. Your boys white Mike and sarcasmic have though.

                      Your arguments are retarded spoof or not.

                    7. Nobody needs to show id. They just won’t get to vote.

    2. A former president on our preservation as a Republic:

      Leave it to SPB2 to celebrate a fascist, racist, and war monger on Independence Day.

  8. And fuck you very much for picking the Fourth of July to air some sort of traitorous bullshit about this nation being founded on the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence founded this nation, the Constitution created that necessary evil known as the government. There’s a goddamn reason we celebrate the Fourth of July and 1776 as our Independence Day – we became free the day we declared we were free and we didn’t give a shit what anybody else said or thought. We knew freedom isn’t free and we were going to have to be willing to die and to kill for our freedom, and we did it. The Constitution chained us back up again, but those chains were meant to rest lightly. Nobody in their right mind believes we still have a federal government rather than a national government, we are currently fighting to revive the idea of federalism but the states are going to have to reassert their authority, be willing to tell Washington to fuck off, and half of them enjoy being subservient to Washington.

    1. ++

      The constitution of limited powers, meant to ensure government did not become abusive. It expanded over the last 100 years at the behest of the left. Wickard, 17th amendment, the normalization of national powers over the states, non federalist growth.

      1. Yes, a polarity flip from seeking the least amount of government so that (small d) diverse people could live together, to seeking to maximize government to manage (impose) an idealistic view of how people should (how I hate that word) live.

    2. I am reminded of the song that was sung throughout the land on the 4th of July many ears ago.

      Arise ye prisoners of starvation
      Arise ye wretched of the earth
      For justice thunders independence
      A better world’s in birth!
      No more King George’s chains shall bind us
      Arise, ye white slaves, no more in thrall;
      The earth shall rise on new foundations
      We have been naught we shall be all.

      1. Sounds exactly like the early version of The Internationale, you’ve slightly reworded to include a reference to King George.

        Here’s a new version for contemporary progs:

        Arise elitists of oppression
        Let the workers fear your might
        They owe to you all their possessions
        And they deserve to have no rights
        “Bitter Clinger’s” we will dub them
        To divide is to conquer great and small
        Freedom is privilege and racist
        To be destroyed for one and all

        1. Nice.

    3. It’s hard for states to tell the federal government to get fucked when it extracts significant amounts of money from the people of the state, and then puts conditions on getting it back.

  9. THIS is what history is for. Well – except for the overly obvious ‘lessons’ that the historian-storyteller is intending to pass on.

    What I take from this basic observation – that the founders were pessimistic about people around them – is that they still held a constitutional convention. They did not let those fears sabotage the risk-taking that a constitutional convention requires.

    And even though they seem to have been pessimistic, they also believed that such a convention would be required reasonably often. In Jefferson’s case, he thought it would be required every generation. That’s almost a requirement if you believe in a social contract interpretation of government.

    Excellent article for the 4th.

  10. Happy 4th. If you want another 230 years the rise of cultural marxusm/critical theory/CRT/post modernism/subjectivity over objectivity must end in k-12.

    America thrived due to work ethic and teaching of classic liberal thought. It is what made us great. Now instead children are taught to blame, finger point, and demand.

    Democrats have falling so far from JFKs ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.

    The theology mentioned above has doomed many countries. Yes it is a theology. The belief in the unmeasurable and fact free.

    Celebrate the 4th and remember where the US came from.

    Drink a beer, have a BBQ, listen to Aaron Lewis’ new single Am I The Only One.

    Cheers.

    1. Aaron Lewis is not 1/100 the patriot Bruce Springsteen is.

      Lewis is defending statues of Confederate traitors to the US while Bruce celebrates the working man and US muscle car culture and hot chicks.

      Lewis is just some conservative cuck for Trump.

      1. Yet he insisted everyone be vaccinated before being allowed to see his concert.

        1. So? It is his concert.

          What happened to the party that supported cake-makers who wanted to refuse service to others?

          1. “wanted to refuse service”

            Notice how Buttplug lies about absolutely everything.
            Masterpiece Cakeshop didn’t deny service, they were still willing to sell the guy a cake. They refused to create a gay themed cake.

            1. If buttplug had a cake shop, he would service all customers. Especially children.

              1. Yeah but decorating it like the inside of a panel van would be a bit on the nose

            2. You lie about everything ML

              1. You got a citation, you creepy antisemitic Mormon-hating fuck?

                1. You got a citation to call me anti Semitic?

                  You claimed I cited Salon.
                  Your lies about me being anti Semitic.

                2. Every time I see you using a homophobic slur I call it out.

                  Yet you claim you aren’t homophobic.

                  You’re a fascist Mormon loving scumbag.

                  1. I am indeed Mormon-loving, but it’s weird to be called “facist” by a corporatist JewIsraeli-hater like you.

                    1. I don’t hate Israel. I disagree with their policies.

                      I’ve spent years standing up to Mormon antisemitism. Mormons are huge antisemites(along with homophobes and racists). You support them and their antisemitism.

                      Fuck off you lying bigot.

                    2. How am I corporatist?

                      Another lie from the piece of shit Canadian fascist from Cranbrook(or whatever shithole you live in)

        2. Not just vaccinated, if you had the wrong vaccine (AstraZeneca), you were banned too.

          Buttplug’s fellow DNC cultists are insane.

      2. Lol. Man. You biden cultists are a riot.

        1. Fuck Biden.

          I am offended as a Bruce Springsteen fan.

          1. Preet Bharara is a big Springsteen fan too.

          2. Remember when they said Bruce was going to be as big as the Beatles? LOL.

          3. Springsteen. A rich liberal pretending to be working class to trick dumbass lefties into buying his music.

            Yeap. Probably your favorite. And yes you’re a biden cultisr. You just posted the other day about how great the economy is due to him lol.

      3. Aaron Lewis is not 1/100 the patriot Bruce Springsteen is.

        Broadway Bruce? I’m sure he’s a hell of a patriot, but I’m not sure what patriotism to the Soviet Union buys you in 2021.

      4. You’re a child molester. You posted your videos here.

        You should kill yourself.

    2. children are taught to blame, finger point, and demand.

      To wit –
      If you want another 230 years the rise of cultural marxusm/critical theory/CRT/post modernism/subjectivity over objectivity must end in k-12

      Apple kind of rots on the tree doesn’t it. Too bad George Washington isn’t here to chop it down and turn it into a raft to cross the Delaware and defeat the cultural Marxists. Or Marxusts. Or maybe that’s McGyver. Whatever. They are both founders to be worshipped on the – the – the 4th. Yeah that’s the ticket.

      1. If you want another 230 years the rise of cultural marxusm/critical theory/CRT/post modernism/subjectivity over objectivity must end in k-12

        Did Jesse the moron really write that? LOL. The curriculum has NEVER been objective. It has always reflected the preferences and prejudices of the cultural majority. So in the bad old days we had things like pictures of happy Indians partying with Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock, and “slavery wasn’t so bad, after all, they got free room and board and became civilized Christians” because the cultural majority had to project itself as the ‘good guys’. Things are better now, but the cultural majority, as represented by reactionary right-wingers, is threatened that their position at the top of the food chain is no longer secure. Horror of horrors, maybe there are other authors that are worth studying in Literature class other than dead white people! OMG, maybe “World History” class won’t focus almost exclusively on what Europeans did!

        They don’t want an ‘objective’ curriculum because no such thing exists or can exist. They want a curriculum that tells a story of themselves being the ‘good guys’ that they can pass off as ‘objective’ because it flatters the cultural majority.

        1. They don’t want an ‘objective’ curriculum because no such thing exists or can exist. They want a curriculum that tells a story of themselves being the ‘good guys’ that they can pass off as ‘objective’ because it flatters the cultural majority.

          In your plaque-encrusted mind, maybe.

          1. Jeff does nothing but argue for subjective truths. To him this is so engravings he denies classic liberal thought and objective truths. Deep down he knows he is full of shit so he tried to attack all objective though claiming it doesn’t exist.

            Sarcasmic abd white Mike will be on soon to back him up.

        2. Our side is pushing for math with objective answers and grades based on getting the correct one.

          Your side is pushing to give failing black/brown kids A’s because oppression, giving points for trying hard but getting the wrong answer (after all, you FELT it was right), ethnomathematics (Cali coined it, not me), and postmodernist bullshit so 2+2 could equal 5 if that’s what in La’quans heart.

          ‘Fuck outta here with your BS. Talk about being on the wrong side of history.

          1. Jeff argued for 3 months that 2+2=5 despite no numerical system that being true in.

          2. Wow, what a creative strawman.

            But, let’s talk about ‘objective history’ for a moment. Please, tell us what your lesson would be for an ‘objective history’ lesson on, say, the Trail of Tears.

            1. US government, or factions within it, wanted Indian land for settlement/development, so president Jackson requisitioned it, despite SCOTUS ruling such action unconstitutional, and forcibly moved the tribes to land further west, creating reservations.
              Not hard.

            2. You have the balls to say “they dont want an objective curriculum” when your side is pushing straight post modernist bullshit-subjectivity above all else, and then you call my concrete examples of identity politics being applied to STEM (a gateway to objective learning, enlightenment, and a well paying career for anyone that would put forth the effort to learn…) as a “strawman”

              For someone who assembles about 10 strawmen per thread, this is super fucking rich man.

              *golf clap*

              1. Dude, I have a STEM degree. If you want to talk to hardcore post-modernists, maybe you should take it up with them.

                Your “concrete examples” were flaming strawmen. Find me one reference to anyone giving passing grades to failing students based on skin color alone.

                Oh I am sure you *want* an objective curriculum, but there is no such thing. What you want is a curriculum that you think is objective, to your frame of reference, while ignoring the complaints that others might have about how it is not so “objective” to their point of view.

                1. Sure you do. We believe you.

                2. My concrete examples are actually happening in schools, or being argued for by proponents of this shit. You have been provided with links for this stuff over and over.

                  I am 50/50 on whether its worth it to send you more links, because you either get swatted away and never say anything again in your defense when provided information contradicting you, or you just go on the next post, making the same arguments that you have already been given cites against, and you make the same claims as if no one ever gave you info to the contrary.

                  Also, poli-sci isnt actually under the umbrella of STEM, despite science being in the name. Just to clear that up for you.

            3. Jeff thinks the only topic I mentioned was history apparently. I assumed he was literate. Either he can’t read or is fucming lying like usual.

              1. “Either he can’t read or is fucming lying like usual.”

                JesseBahnFuhrer the high-school dorp-out is dorping out again! AND fucming lying like usual! Emperor Fucming Lying has yellowish skin and slanted eyes, so of COURSE racist JesseBahnFuhrer hates Emperor Fucming Lying (while repeating the lies of Emperor Fucming Lying, paradoxically), and ADORES Emperor Putin-Trump Dear Leader Der TrumpfenFuhrer!

                What a surprise! More news at 11:00; stay tuned, same bat-shit-uber-crazy time, same bat-shit-uber-crazy station!

        3. And the cultural marxist in Jeff takes offense.

          God damn man.

      2. You know, culture wars are absolute garbage. It’s boring populist rhetoric that is entirely against libertarian principles like reason.

        Big fan of Rothbard I presume?

    3. “Democrats have falling so far from JFKs ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.”

      I have always had a problem with this quote. Consider, if you will, if it was Lenin who was speaking.

      1. Lenin was pushing people to harm others under the guise of marxism, leading the destruction of individual thought. JFK was saying to stop asking for handouts.

        1. I know, Jesse. Not knocking JFK. But it just shows that context is everything.

    4. Aaron Lewis? for real?

      Are you GOPers going to kick your main untalented hack (Lee Greenwood) to the curb?

      You’re running out of singing shills you know.

      1. Lol. You thought your first response was so good you made another? Or did another round of child porn make you forget what you already posted?

  11. They knew those in power only seek more power.
    Vote everyone out, every time.

    1. This would happen far more without the 17th on the senate.

    2. Elections are done.
      Only violence remains. The only question is if it’s one sided or if the left is finally dealt with.

  12. And on the 4th Twitter takes down Prof Anne Marie Brady. Noted scholar but anti CCP one.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EmanuelStoakes/status/1411608171513147395

  13. #BidenBoom update.

    The 10 richest Americans have gained a combined $191 billion this year.

    I must admit that even I am surprised by just how pro-billionaire the Biden Era has turned out to be. Like if you had asked me to predict how much additional wealth the 10 richest Americans would earn in the first 6 months, I probably would have put the number between $100 billion and $150 billion.

    #InDefenseOfBillionaires

  14. Never-mind Alexander Hamilton was the most Nazi of all the founding fathers and had very little to do with writing the U.S. Constitution because the real founders knew he was a moron.

    1. You don’t mean Alexander Hamilton the bankster, who conspired with Robert Morris to rob citizen soldiers with schemes that manipulated payments on script, do you?

  15. One of the reasons Americans so often confuse our constitutional rights with the real thing is that some of the big ones in the Constitution, like the First Amendment, come so close to approximating the real thing, it’s hard to tell them apart. And that’s the key to understanding whether the Constitution will fail us. The reason the Constitution won’t fail us is because it comes so close to approximating our rights and the principles that make the real world work the way it does.

    I often use our First Amendment religious rights as an example. The real world negative consequences of violating people’s religious rights are unavoidable and extremely cost prohibitive–and violating people’s religious rights has always had the same negative consequences in the same way–cross culturally and throughout history.

    The ancient Romans in Judah; the fanatical Muslims armies that overran Persia; the Catholics and Protestants that duked it out in the Thirty Years War; ISIS in Syria: they all either had to learn to respect the religious rights of other people or suffer the dramatic negative consequences of failing to do so. Even today, if you don’t want to live in a country where the Christian vote is based solely on who will protect their rights from their enemies, then you better protect their rights without having any fundamentalists in power.

    The negative consequences of failing to respect people’s property rights is easier to quantify, and the negative consequences of failing to protect our property rights are obviously also dramatic and consistent throughout history and cross culturally, too. It doesn’t matter whether it’s Lenin rushing in with the New Economic Policy, Vietnam invading Cambodia to defeat Pol Pot, or Venezuelan socialists accepting the need for reform, the negative consequences of nationalizing food production and distribution are devastating and the same everywhere in all cultures throughout all of history. You can’t do what they did in the Constitution without suffering the same consequences.

    My fellow libertarian capitalists understand that the reason markets and capitalism work the way they do isn’t because the Constitution imposed certain rules on us. If the Constitution had been written in such a way that it failed to protect our property rights, the negative consequences of doing so would still be the same. We know that from so many examples, but it works the same way with other things in the Constitution, too.

    For instance, the way the Constitution circumscribes the proper purview of democracy is not arbitrary. People cannot be free when their religious rights are subject to popularity contests, which is why the First Amendment begins, “Congress shall make no law”. We suffer serious consequences when we violate people’s rights even when violating them is popular.

    On the other hand, there are serious negative consequences when the American people are subject to unpopular wars, treaties, taxes, and naturalization policies, too–with the rise of populism and disdain for limited government being only two examples. Regardless of what popular opinion should be, unless the implementation of those policies are subjected to popular opinion, the same bad things always happen. And if the Constitution had failed to circumscribe the proper purview of democracy in such a way that it includes those things, suffering those negative consequences would not be optional.

    If the people don’t feel like they have control over policy on those issues, they will vote to leave the EU, they will vote for Nationalists in France, Germany, and Italy, like they did circa 2016, and they will turn their backs on liberal values. And it’s been that way since long before Mussolini and Franco. Heck, in the United States of America, they’ll even vote for populists like Donald Trump. I’ve seen ’em do it!

    During the Civil War, someone once asked Lincoln whether God was on his side, and Lincoln is supposed to have answered something to the effect of, “The question isn’t whether God is on my side but whether I’m on his”. That’s more or less what I think about the Constitution and whether it might fail us. The question isn’t whether its basic principles will fail us in the real world–because they take proper account of the real world. The question is whether we’ll fail to abide by the principles of the Constitution–the ones that will help us avoid dreadfully negative, real world consequences.

    The principles in the Constitution that I’m writing about, whether they be about religious rights, property rights, freedom of speech, Fifth Amendment rights, the separation of powers, the proper purview of democracy, etc., etc. are not arbitrary constructions that could be written differently without negative consequences in the real world–because the way those principles are written into the Constitution very closely approximate the way things actually work in the real world. We could not have them otherwise without serious negative consequences that are not worth whatever you’re trying to achieve by changing the words on a document.

    The design of an airplane is not arbitrary. If the design isn’t in harmony with the laws of physics and aerodynamics, then it will fail. If your design fails to fly, that isn’t the fault of the laws of physics and aerodynamics. The question isn’t whether the laws of physics and aerodynamics will fail us. The question is whether we’ll fail to understand them and their proper place in the design of our airplane. When I see the profoundly ignorant and stupid designs that progressives want to use to build our airplane, it’s amazing.

    1. Agreed, just as one cannot construct an effective sword out of limestone, it is just impossible to craft a functioning socialist utopia out of human raw materials. That is not the manner in which we function.

    2. Too bad they didn’t add that the executive and judiciary could make no law.

      1. There are ways it can be improved (and ways it has been), but, again, the powerfulness of the Constitution is the extent to which it accounts for and approximates reality. Any improvements need to do a better job of that than it does now.

        Instead, some people try to create a reality that doesn’t exist by writing words on a piece of paper–like a progressive world of make believe without scarcity, without market forces, and with 100% entitlements sans negative consequences.

        The assumption that the world would be a better place if only we changed the words on a piece of paper should be ridiculed. If the progressives pass an amendment that says healthcare is a human right, the fundamental problem of scarcity will not suddenly disappear.

        If you have a great way to improve things and address the problem of the executive and judiciary making laws that does a better job of accounting for reality than what’s already in the Constitution, I’m all ears. I’d like to see a balanced budget amendment. I’m rather impressed–in this one way–by the Swedish model.

        https://www.government.se/government-of-sweden/ministry-of-finance/central-government-budget/the-fiscal-policy-framework

    3. “We suffer serious consequences when we violate people’s rights even when violating them is popular.”

      The catch, of course, is that government can violate people easily and legally without violating their rights. The courts make this clear over and over again.

  16. I’d ask Dennis Rasmussen what exactly these “problems” are “baked into.” If what the framers were attempting to do was to arrange for a system of representative government that protected individual rights both from other individuals and from the state (which was necessarily composed of other individuals), while taking into account difficulties inherent in the human condition (tendency to factionalism, to be corrupted by power, to fail to see the flaws in their own plans, to wish for certainty and control beyond what is possible), and difficulties arise in implementing that framework in the real world, are the problems baked into the governmental structure, or into the human condition? Both? What if there is no way to perfectly achieve these balances, do we castigate the document or its drafters for failure, or endeavor to plug in each new threat that citizens with state power pose to those without that power as they arise? I’d imagine the latter, but what do I know?

  17. Alexander Hamilton called the Constitution a “frail and worthless fabric.”

    Yes, and he acted on that belief.

    How Alexander Hamilton Screwed Up America

  18. https://twitter.com/Nationals/status/1411527028017352711?s=19

    Tonight’s Freedom Fireworks presented by Budweiser have been canceled due to the city’s noise curfew.

    We apologize for the inconvenience.

  19. Leftist Representative to the US House:

    https://twitter.com/CoriBush/status/1411713466608635909?s=19

    When they say that the 4th of July is about American freedom, remember this: the freedom they’re referring to is for white people.

    This land is stolen land and Black people still aren’t free.

    1. Are you black?

      1. Are you looking to lynch someone?

        1. No. In my notes Nardz is listed as “Black. Fascist. Possibly intellectually disabled.” I confused him and Sevo once.

          Someone claimed he was Romanian. He won’t answer me because he’s a big pussy.

          1. So you are looking to lynch someone.

            BTW, in my notes I have you down as drunk, divorced wifebeater, antisemite, sarcasmic.

            1. Not married. Not an antisemite. Not sarc.

              I said “no.” You can lie till the cows come home but the proof you’re lying is right there.

              Seek help dude. You’re some kind of compulsive lying narcissist.

              1. Seriously dude, put the troll on mute. He only says you’re me to get a reaction. Like a puppy or a child. Just mute and ignore him. Never respond again.

                1. Can’t come up with a cohesive answer, hmm? Coward!

                  1. Jeez, Tulpa. How many socks do you use a day? Never mind. I’m putting this one on mute so I won’t read the answer.

  20. https://nypost.com/2021/07/04/pbs-backlash-over-vanessa-williams-black-national-anthem/

    ““It’s in celebration of the wonderful opportunity that we now have to celebrate Juneteenth. So we are reflective of the times,” the actress and singer, who was the first black woman to win the Miss America Pageant, told the Associated Press.”

    The trend is impossible to miss. We need a black national anthem. We need a black american flag. We need a new National independence day (that isnt the 4th). Everything old is racist and has to be torn down, replaced with the woke approved alternatives. I bet next year all the libs will make it a point to do their major celebration on Juneteenth and say that the 4th is a holiday for racist white supremacists that dont represent us. Sounds extreme, but they never fail to deliver.

    1. Ain’t gonna happen. The Fourth of July isn’t going anywhere.

      1. “CRT is just some obscure theory doctorate students choose to learn, no need to worry about it”

        1. Actually, I think CRT is worth being concerned about, if you have kids in the public education system.

          But Fourth of July getting canceled. Nah.

  21. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o20tk-QrZiE

    BNT Exclusive: Dr. Aruna Khilanani Explains Yale Speech About Killing White People

    Her explanation is almost worse. With some doozies such as “all white people are psychopaths”. It was hard to watch. She is a flaming racist, and unapologetic about it.

    This is what happens when you combine a soft, low IQ mind with indoctrination.

    1. Is she someone of public importance, like a Congressperson? Otherwise, she just seems like a nut to be ignored.

      1. No but her response as a practicing psychiatric professional, and the response of this guy who has a decent online presence/audience, of flat out calling all whites racist, psychopath, unable-to-be-fixed people…

        And him not even really pushing back on how that is straight up racist (also if Mark lemont-hill heard anyone hinting that a black person was likely to enjoy hip-hop he would be totally fine with invoking RACISM without a second of hesitance…but accuse another race of being sociopathic racist garbage…meh just brush it off)

        This is where we are at. Some races are above criticism, and others you can be flat our racist to, and honestly, should be, to make things even. Lets just repeal the civil rights act already. Its clearly what you people want.

        1. Or just ignore fringe nut cases, and reserve your worries for real problems.

      2. Also she seems to be on par with how racist a good chunk of congress is. So appropriately represented?

  22. Hi this is monica blanc . Future designer and developer love to explore travel around the world ( Fashion +Tech )
    https://affixapparel.com/

  23. Of course there was division among the founders. The same division grows today.

    They were comprised of Christians who value truth as God and Freemasons, the secret worshipers of the coercion of Satan.

    Truth and lies do not coexist. Truth always vanquishes lies. Nobody knows this better than the vanquished liars.

    The Christian founders wanted to be free of the coercion of the monarchy while Freemasons regard themselves above all others, just like a monarchy.

    The two sentiments represented by quotations from the founders.

    Alexander Hamilton with the Freemason perspective

    All communities divide themselves into the few and the many. The first are the rich and the well-born; the other the mass of the people… turbulent and changing, they seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the first class a distinct, permanent share in the Government… Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy.

    Thomas Jefferson, the Christian perspective.

    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. The functionaries of every government have propensities to command at will the liberty and property of their constituents. There is no safe deposit for these but with the people themselves; nor can they be safe with them without information. Where the press is free, and every man able to read, all is safe.

    Which is the slavers perspective?

  24. Happy 4th from the democrats.

    Maxine Waters
    @RepMaxineWaters
    July 4th… & so, the Declaration of Independence says all men are created equal. Equal to what? What men? Only white men? Isn’t it something that they wrote this in 1776 when African Americans were enslaved? They weren’t thinking about us then, but we’re thinking about us now!

    Cori Bush
    @CoriBush
    When they say that the 4th of July is about American freedom, remember this: the freedom they’re referring to is for white people.

    This land is stolen land and Black people still aren’t free.

    Jamaal Bowman
    @JamaalBowmanNY
    Let us reflect on the full story of America today.

    Black people were not freed in 1776.

    Despite a system stacked against us, we must continue to use our collective power to change that system. #4thofJuly

    1. I’d be worried too if I was a freedom hating traitor like you…

      1. So you agree with those statements? As expected, KAR.

        1. Where did I agree or disagree?

          Pants on fire ML

          1. Right here, nutbag:

            KillAllRednecks
            July.4.2021 at 4:25 pm
            I’d be worried too if I was a freedom hating traitor like you…

            1. Me pointing out he’s scared isn’t agreeing or disagreeing with the crap he posted.

              I’m just pointing out that some of the traitors can see people won’t tolerate their treason much longer.

              Nardz, Jesse, Red, Mark Thrust are traitors. Us patriots aren’t going to put up with their bullshit much longer.

              1. Mormons need to go too

              2. Your owners really should take you to the vet and have you put down. You’re not even really American. Just a progtard.

                1. More American than your Trump worshipping traitor ass

    2. As said above, wait until July 4th (and Juneteenth) 2022. Wait and see what they try to do.

      Its out there for all to see. The 4th will be “KKK white supremacist Murica-celebration” on the major news cites and among the trash congress critters. #NotMyIndependenceDay. Just wait and see.

    3. Everyone has been free since at least the 1960s. Stop using the past as an excuse.

  25. The Founders may have been pessimists about their new nation, but as Praxeology observes, discontent is what moves people to get better and do better, so there’s that and so it was and so it goes.

  26. Happy 4th of July. We might disagree, but don’t forget that we agree on more things than we disagree. In the USA, we can say crazy shit on message boards, and not have the secret police busting down our doors. Injustice and corruption occur everywhere, but still, if you, look back 100 years to 1921, the USA is in a better place. Let alone looking back 200 years when slavery was still legal and the average lifespan was 40 years or so. Challenges face us this century, just like the founders themselves saw upcoming challenges. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a worthy goal, although those ideals will always be imperfectly promoted. To quote the end of my favorite cheesy poem, “Despite all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Strive to be happy.”

    1. In the USA, we can say crazy shit on message boards, and not have the secret police busting down our doors.
      Yet.

      1. Funny, I seem to recall not so long ago the sitting president of the United States being banned, censored deplatformed and canceled along with anyone else identifying election irregularities.

        Free press my ass.

  27. JUST A COINCIDENCE?

    German Reich 1871-1945 74 years
    Soviet Union 1917-1991 74 years
    “Old” United States 1787-1861 74 years

    WHO’S NEXT?

    1. So you long for the days before the civil war when slavery was legal?

      1. No, but you do.

        1. So you lie just like the other traitors on here?

  28. Independence Day: when democrats remind us they hate our country

  29. Americans have been bitterly divided on the issues before, many time.

    What’s different now is that half the country wants to live off the government.

    The two sides used to at least show some restraint, not jacking up the debt to unsustainable levels. That seemed to end last year with the lockdown bailouts, and the Dems getting majority control, wanting to buy everything on their wish list before they get booted out in 2022.

    1. For example, in Bush vs. Gore, communitarian neocon Bush wanted to jack spending by 5%. Green centrist Gore wanted to jack spending by 8%.

      Now we have Trump wanting to jack spending by 20% and Biden wanting to jack spending by 100%.

      Democracy only lasts until people realize they can vote themselves money from the public treasury, or in our case, from the public debt for future generations to repay.

    2. We used to have a good chunk of the country living off the government in the form of military contracts. That is still happening, but not to the degree when Vietnam and the Cold War were happening.

    3. Its pretty clear that hyperinflation will be the catastrophic catalyst that really gets the bloodletting going in civil war 2.0

      Democrats started civil 1.0 and 2.0 but outside commie cities, democrats dont control anything, so many americans are not ready to fight the commies. Hyperinflation will force their hand. Supply problems during kungflu hysteria 2020 almost starved out cities and expose what will happen. Cities will have month long supply shortages because cities dont produce or grow anything anymore. Average americans will face starvation and that will cause even more panic than kungflu.

  30. People forget the Republic was the Founding Fathers second try at a union and Federalism, the “Articles of Confederation” was the first try. It makes a lot of sense the Founding Fathers were concerned about the failure of the Republic after their first failure of their “Articles of Confederation” and “Perpetual Union”.

    What are 3 reasons the Articles of Confederation failed?
    Each state only had one vote in Congress, regardless of size.
    Congress did not have the power to tax.
    Congress did not have the power to regulate foreign and interstate commerce.
    There was no executive branch to enforce any acts passed by Congress.
    There was no national court system or judicial branch.

  31. This may also interest some people:
    Downfall of the Articles of Confederation: Shays’ Rebellion

    A group of Massachusetts farmers were outraged by the increased efforts by the state government to collect taxes.
    They performed a series of violent attacks on government properties.
    The national government was unable to extinguish the rebellion.
    This proved that the Articles did not have the power needed to run the country successfully.

  32. For your own sexy chat pleasure in United Kingdom try to visit girls for sex in birmingham

  33. https://twitter.com/ThomasSowell/status/1411769328513474561?s=19

    Some Americans will never appreciate America, until after they have helped destroy it, and have then begun to suffer the consequences.

    1. You’re talking about traitors like yourself?

      1. No, traitors like you. We’re incapable of treason. Just,Ike you are incapable of patriotism, and just largely incapable.

        Suicide is really the only way forward for you. End your tortured existence. No one loves you and no one ever will.

        1. At least I don’t live in shithole Spokane traitor.

          You put your hard on for an orange senile liar above your own country! Shame on you!

  34. https://twitter.com/LeonydusJohnson/status/1412038041468821511?s=19

    Govt is supposed to be a mechanism by which we engage in voluntary cooperation to do things that cannot feasibly be done alone (e.g. national defense). It’s not supposed to be this massive weapon by which we force others to bow down to our ideologically-possessed vision of utopia

    1. Unfortunately, if we put all the people who want to control or constrain what others think and do on one side of the room (regardless of specific ideology), and put all the people who want others to live as they choose on the other side of the room, the building will tip over.

  35. It is amazing that the Founders foresaw Progressive Liberals.

  36. In the 19th century, one of the greatest freemasons of all times “Albert Pike” confidently envisioned/forecasted in his book “morals and dogma” –

    “We shall unleash the Nihilists & Atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its its horrors will show clearly to the nations (people of different nationalities), the effects of absolute Atheism, origin of absolute savagery and of the most bloody turmoil….”

    The above verse gives us a slight hint that it is “Atheism” and “Nihilism” that would lead to global terrorism, not religion.

    “Morals and Dogma” is the (esoteric) Bible of Freemasons. And, if you still have doubts about freemasons, here’s another line from the same book :

    “Lucifer, the light bearer. Strange and mysterious name to give to the spirit of darkness. Lucifer the son of the morning! It is he who bears the light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual or selfish souls? Doubt it not!”

    1. Hitler was a Freemason.

      1. Rob Misek was-is a worshipper of Itself and the Evil One, AKA, Father of lies!

        If you ever come around to wanting to work on your affliction, EvilBahnFuhrer, start here: M. Scott Peck, The People of the Lie, the Hope for Healing Human Evil
        https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848597/reasonmagazinea-20/
        People who are evil attack others instead of facing their own failures. Peck demonstrates the havoc these “people of the lie” work in the lives of those around them.

        1. You’re talking about yourself troll.

      2. Your link fell off.

        1. Traitor

  37. “Either he can’t read or is fucming lying like usual.”

    JesseBahnFuhrer the high-school dorp-out is dorping out again! AND fucming lying like usual! Emperor Fucming Lying has yellowish skin and slanted eyes, so of COURSE racist JesseBahnFuhrer hates Emperor Fucming Lying (while repeating the lies of Emperor Fucming Lying, paradoxically), and ADORES Emperor Putin-Trump Dear Leader Der TrumpfenFuhrer!

    What a surprise! More news at 11:00; stay tuned, same bat-shit-crazy time, same bat-shit-crazy station!

    1. You make no sense and add nothing to the conversation. You earned a mute.

  38. Coming to a head where commie democrats get deported to commie china and their property is eminent domained to pay their share of the national debt they pushed.

    Bye bye democrats.

    1. Good one traitor!

      Did you burn flags on the fourth? Or do you just not celebrate and celebrate on the senile orange fascist’s birthday?

  39. “…problems…might be baked in…”
    Like constitutionally authorized theft (tax) and property violation, e.g., eminent domain? No matter. Written right’s are ignored, by all three branches. Govt. supports govt. The public supports govt., no matter what. Then they pretend they live “in the land of the free, home of the brave”. How brave is it to hand over your money without being arrested or charged, e.g., Civil Asset Forfeiture? If the victim said NO! and the cop reached for his gun, but the citizen beat him to the draw defending his property, “we the people” wouldn’t see it on MSM. That would inform and inspire self-governance. Can’t have that.

  40. Thanks for such a kind of astounding content with us. I have found much great stuff in your writing. I do hope most of the information will help me much. By the way, your writing style is so charming. I like it. I highly appreciate your effort in producing this piece of the article. You are really serving people by providing valuable resources. Please keep creating 
    Screening Expo 2021

Please to post comments