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Free Minds & Free Markets

Stossel: Leaving the Left

Dave Rubin tells John Stossel how he walked away from the left.

Dave Rubin is a popular YouTube host who was once on the left. He worked for The Young Turks TV show.

But Rubin tells John Stossel how he gradually changed his mind and became a classical liberal. For that, Rubin lost friends and gets protested at college campuses.

While many leftists are so angry at Rubin that they will no longer talk to him, conservatives are eager to talk. Rubin says that surprised him because, "I'm pro-choice. Most of them are pro-life. I'm against the death penalty, most of them are for the death penalty."

Stossel had a similar experience. "When I went from left to libertarian, the right was willing to argue," he tells Rubin.

Why would that be? Rubin speculates that it comes down to treating people as individuals rather than groups. "If you believe in the individual, then you fundamentally understand that individuals are different. So you are willing to sit down with someone different than you," he says.

Rubin gets flak for talking with right-wing provocateurs like Milo Yiannopoulos, and for criticizing leftists.

When Rubin, who is gay, tried to give a speech at the University of New Hampshire, a gender studies professor screamed, "we don't want you in the LGBT community, so get the f*** out."

Another woman at the speech said Rubin is insensitive to victims. But when Rubin asked how she had been oppressed, she responded, "I have no reason to tell you about my oppression because that's just like mental energy, unless I'm going to be paid."

Rubin calls the atmosphere on many campuses an "Oppression Olympics," where students and faculty compete to be the biggest victim.

As a result, ideas that offend "victims" are often off limits for discussion.

But Rubin says he will not bow to political correctness. He'll keep discussing uncomfortable ideas: "I would rather live and stand for whatever I believe in than just bow forever."

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The views expressed in this video are solely those of John Stossel; his independent production company, Stossel Productions; and the people he interviews. The claims and opinions set forth in the video and accompanying text are not necessarily those of Reason.

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  • Ken Shultz||

    I think it's interesting that streaming news services (often geared mostly to Millennials) seem to be going more radical than cable networks that were once perceived as radical.

    If One America News is to the right of Fox and The Young Turks is to the left of MSNBC, does that make Fox and MSNBC the new mainstream?

  • NoVaNick||

    Its not just the edgy streaming news services. I've noticed that old fart magazines like The Atlantic and New Yorker have been spewing increasingly leftist garbage. Maybe they are trying to attract younger readers?

  • Brett Bellmore||

    They've been taken over by SJW management, who are willing to run what they view as a rapidly depreciating asset right into the ground for political gains.

    Print media is dying anyway, so why not nail down some political gains at the cost of accelerating the inevitable death by a couple of years?

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Soros' organizations have been buying up radio stations and various other media companies. They want to control the narrative. This is a war and the left is battling for control of the information front.

    Hopefully, more people not on the left will recognize that this IS a war, before its too late.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Its going to come as a real shocker then when Democrats lose bad in election 2018 and they controlled most of the air time.

    Its like stupid businessmen who buy billboards and have not realized that kind of message is ignored these days. Less and less people watch TV, let alone watch commercials.

    Lefties are stuck in their controlling past where they did not see the end of slavery was inevitable.

    The Democratic Party not being a political force anymore is inevitable.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Well it's not like the GOP congress is all that awesome, but the economy is continually improving, and the democrats have nothing to offer other than "Trump is a big poopy head". I have some hope that a republican with Jim Jordan as speaker might be a big improvement.

  • Cy||

    +1 Stossel

  • Just Say'n||

    I love the disclaimer that Reason puts on Stossel's videos now:

    "The views expressed in this video are solely those of John Stossel; his independent production company, Stossel Productions; and the people he interviews. The claims and opinions set forth in the video and accompanying text are not necessarily those of Reason."

    Can't have Stossel sullying woketarianism with his libertarian ideas

  • MJBinAL||

    ^^THIS^^

  • MasterThief||

    Is it only Stossel they do this to? Do they do the same to someone like Chapman who doesn't even credibly pretend to be libertarian?

  • BlueStarDragon||

    I never seen this

  • NashTiger||

    Plus Infinity

  • NashTiger||

    Plus Infinity

  • sarcasmic||

    For that, Rubin lost friends and gets protested at college campuses.
    While many leftists are so angry at Rubin that they will no longer talk to him, conservatives are eager to talk. Rubin says that surprised him...

    When leftists express hatred and intolerance towards people with different viewpoints, they are being tolerant. Because tolerance means not tolerating intolerance.

    When conservatives express eagerness to talk with people with different viewpoints, they are being intolerant. Because they are perpetuating intolerance by allowing there to be a discussion.

  • LeaveTrumpAloneLiberal-tarian||

    This ^, and conservatives like you and me are so much better at expressing tolerance/intolerance. I mean, when Leftists feel bad about something they go yell at Milo Yiannopoulos, who feels real sad and hurt. When conservatives feel bad about something they go and blow up a federal building filled with toddlers and run people over with their car. Really, which side would you rather be on?

  • Just Say'n||

    You've hit rock bottom, Cathy

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    The irony of LTALamo-tarian's comment is that the Oklahoma City bombing was a direct response to the government murdering children at Ruby Ridge and Waco.

  • Just Say'n||

    But, that's different, because that was the government. And when they murder they do it in a woke fashion

  • DesigNate||

    At the direction of the darling of the Democratic Party.

  • Cathy L||

    Oh please, like I would stan for federal workers.

  • Just Say'n||

    I like this response. You're alright, kid

  • TuIpa||

    You would if they were children.

  • gphx||

    There's a video on YouTube of a liberal professor confessing to his class that just before that guy sped away he 'waved him off with a rifle'. And he didn't run over the woman who died. She died of a heart attack.

    I'd rather be on the side that argues objective facts rather than manufactured and fictitious offense.

  • Get To Da Chippah||

    I mean, when Leftists feel bad about something they go yell at Milo Yiannopoulos shoot up a baseball field full of Republican congresspeople.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    I think it's more like, since you've proven yourself a NAZI by disagreeing with them, and NAZIs deserve to be punched, they're actually being very tolerant by not beating you to a pulp.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    The Lefty trolls will up there game on Reason now.

    Non-Government resolution of problems is the enemy of Socialism.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I think we're past the point of talking our problems out anyway. The left isn't interested in discussion or compromise. Just incrementalism and bullying. Ignite as well just have it out and take them down fairly soon, they're already violent anyway.

  • LeaveTrumpAloneLiberal-tarian||

    You see, guys. The tolerant Right.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I'm not tolerant of marxist assholes making plans to control my life, subvert the constitution, and enslave me in their vision of progtopia.

    Thus far, I've tolerated their existence. That will end soon if they keep pushing.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Its self defense.

    Lefties want to murder us and Americans are coming to grips with the need to defend ourselves.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Exactly. I would prefer to spend my time doing what I normally do, engage in free market pursuits to make profits, and be left alone to do so. But progressives just won't have that. They push, and they push. More taxes, more regulations. Threatening to destroy lives and businesses if you say anything they don't like. Now they're turning physically violent.

    Enough is enough.

    Everyone who doesn't want to live under the progressive yoke needs to fight back. Through markets, through speech, and likely very soon, by brutal violent force. And the progressives will only have themselves to blame.

  • JoeBlow123||

    "Through markets, through speech, and likely very soon, by brutal violent force."

    This sounds like a call to the Brown Shirts to organize. Be careful what you wish for hombre.

  • MJBinAL||

    Hmmm, how many leftists have been run out of eateries by mobs of right wingers? oh yeah, zero

    ok then, how many conservative private colleges and universities have given student time off from class to protest? oh yeah, zero

    Well then, how many Republicans or Libertarians have organized protests that included breaking store windows, rolling cars, and looting? Oh yeah, zero

    yep, those folks on the right are SO intolerant compared to the left. Everyone knows leftists show thier love by beating you with a bat, stealing your stuff, and burning your car.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    At least the tolerant Right pays their mortgage.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    Is LeaveTrumpAloneLiberal-tarian an AMSOC sock? I was wondering why he disappeared.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Dave Rubin has to up his game now that he is an enemy of the Left.

    Explain to Lefty hecklers that they are oppressing the rights of the audience to hear what Rubin has to say. That heckler is literally the oppressor.

  • Tom Bombadil||

    Where is Francisco? I heard he has feelings for Stossel.

  • Tony||

    So you can agree to disagree on your differences about whether women have control over their own internal organs, but a couple anecdotes of lefties being belligerent turns you off to the whole deal. This is Stossel. I think the operative factor is stupidity. It's so simple it must be true!

  • Just Say'n||

    How is a fetus an "internal organ"? That's just nonsense.

    This is what I meant when I said that while I generally agree with the pro-choice side of the debate they are so disingenuous and so religiously devoted to their perverse sacrament of abortion that it's impossible not to hate them.

  • wreckinball||

    It isn't. Tony is as dumb as shit.

  • NoVaNick||

    Give them a few years, they will be calling for the right to have a baby euthanized if the mom doesn't want the child after birth. Gotta keep upping the game.

  • Tony||

    Anti-abortion people don't even know why they're against it anymore. They're just running on inertia. The human rights factor is about whether women have access to modern society or if you want government to force them to be breeding factories like this is the fucking middle ages.

    But a zygote is a rights-bearing human! Yeah, says who? In case law or common law? Wouldn't we all be better off if we just gave up that arbitrary designation?

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    "Anti-abortion people don't even know why they're against it anymore"

    Yes they do you stupid sociopathic piece of shit. And that 'zygote' is a sentient human being far sooner than your limited little mind can fathom.

  • Dillinger||

    >>>don't even know why they're against it anymore

    i don't sanction monkeys killing monkeys just because we think a little deeper.

  • Philadelphia Collins||

    Step one: dehumanize the victim
    Step two: genocide

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Not much of a surprise that an obvious sociopath like Tony has no problem killing babies, even thinking it cute to do so.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    You do realize that there are stages of pregnancy beyond the zygote, right?

  • operagost||

    So you're saying that we have to have government explicitly grant rights in order for them to exist?

  • Eddy||

    a couple anecdotes of lefties being belligerent

    "While there was no hint of violence during the Tuesday night talk sponsored by the UNH chapter of Turning Point USA, some students felt the event was inappropriate and hateful and tried to stop it from occurring by keeping attendees from entering the arena and by attempting to disrupt the talk given by political commentator and comedian Dave Rubin....

    "Before Rubin's talk started, a human chain of about 28 protesters attempted to block people from going in. Their call-and-response chant circular stated, "We are here in solidarity with students, faculty and staff and those of marginalized identities because UNH administration has remained complacent." They would move as people would try to go around them, but the attendees were not stopped. Many found ways to move around and get in."

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    If some progtard blocked me I would just walk though it. If they got hurt, oh well. I think most of us have had enough of their shit.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    I'd do the same. That, or let them trip me and start screaming about having been injured. At 59, that's probably the better approach.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    If it's a guy blocking you and you trip, grab his testicles for balance on the way down. IMaybe even use them to pull yourself back up. learned that move watching Vinnie Jones play football (soccer) back in the day.

  • wreckinball||

    That is not non-violent.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    Preventing people from going into a building that they were invited is non-violent?

    So if people surrounded your house to prevent you from entering, thereby forcing a confrontation would that also be non-violent?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    The Constitutional only protects peaceful assembly.

    Hecklers veto and blocking people from exercising their freedom of movement, does not seem very peaceful.

  • sarcasmic||

    People who pride themselves on their "complexity" and deride others for being "simplistic" should realize that the truth is often not very complicated. What gets complex is evading the truth.

    -Thomas Sowell

  • Tony||

    Sounds like something a stupid person would say.

  • Just Say'n||

    Funny thing is that that stupid person is infinitely smarter and more successful than you'll ever be.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Another stupid thing that Tony says.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    No Tony, the things you say are what a stupid person says, as you ARE a stupid person. You have no concept of how annoying it is to deal with dullards like you.

  • gphx||

    And yet you keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I have little choice in the matter. I live in a world filled with people who, relatively speaking, think in slow motion.

  • pxm||

    Your subconscious racism manifesting itself here - perhaps you should check your privilege and reflect on why you made the implicit connection that a black men must be ignorant and thus say stupid things.

    Am I doing it right?

  • NashTiger||

    How racist of you

  • Colossal Douchebag||

    Keep fucking that guilt-by-association chicken Tony.

  • Rockabilly||

    Tony is a fucking ass hole ass hate fucking douche bag of the highest order within the democrat progressive communist party as planned by Comrade Karl Marx and his disciples: Woodrow Wilson, FDR, LBJ, Dick Head Nixon, George Bush, and Bark Obama, Lord of the Drones and Keeper of the Secret Kill List.

  • ||

    "The views expressed in this video are solely those of John Stossel; his independent production company, Stossel Productions; and the people he interviews. The claims and opinions set forth in the video and accompanying text are not necessarily those of Reason."

    Wimps.

  • Rockabilly||

    That's really fucked.

    What's their fucking problem these days?

    Is it the fucking fancy pants parties they go to?

    Do their communist pals check out the web site to see if it is OK before they invite the Reason crew over to the loft for their swank parties with other coastal elites and their fancy finger foods and complex drinks?

    I'm having thoughts about not giving them any more money and spending it on my special lady friend.

    We'll see. I'm a man of swinging moods.

  • walkaway_nov6||

    Why? Sounds like a very Libertarian thing to do. Make people take responsibility for their words and actions. Reason doesn't have to agree with everyone who publishes here. They simply offer the ability for them to publish without gating free speech. If you want a website that forces everyone to regurgiatate the same viewpoints and sanction those they disagree with, try a leftie shit-rag like The Huffington Joke or a trash news outlet like MSNBC.

  • LeaveTrumpAloneLiberal-tarian||

    I agree with Dave Rubin who has been talking about this vital subject for going on a decade. There aren't any Leftists here willing to engage with libertarianism. That, or their arguments on how the government shouldn't kill people in the 3rd world over oil are so disingenuous. There's really only one side to talk with. That's whatever Trump's side is on today.

  • Just Say'n||

    This is parody is so awful and bad. The libertarians that are typically associated with the "Right", such as the Mises Institute, are far more anti-war than the cosmo crowd.

    Work on your parody.

  • Brian||

    I think he's saying leftists are willing to engage us and explain how bad the Iraq War was, in only the most sound-byty of terms, and contrary to the libertarians here.

    Or something.

  • esteve7||

    Libertarians, esp those that write for this site, need to wake up about the left. They will never like you no matter how much you pander to them. Their collectivist ideology and 'social justice' is literally the opposite of individual rights and personal liberty.

  • ||

    Canada's libertarian Maxime Bernier is ruffling the little CBC. Check this piece of bull shit guerrilla journalism that taxpayers have to fund:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GAbZu8mSJw&t=238s

    Then they wonder why people are turning their backs.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Thanks for info.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Why would that be? Rubin speculates that it comes down to treating people as individuals rather than groups.

    Wait, since when have Republicans turned into individualists?

  • Just Say'n||

    Rubin and Stossel are Republicans now? Is there anything that you don't reflexively take the stereotypical progressive position on? Serious question

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    They regard themselves as "on the right".

  • Tom Bombadil||

    citation.

  • Just Say'n||

    They're only defined as "on the Right" because the Left is smaller and more insular than ever. Alan Dershowitz and Sam Harris are considered to be "on the Right" now too.

    Criticizing John Stossel is a surefire way of showing that you're about as libertarian as Bill Maher

  • Doug Heffernan||

    Harris is considered to be "on the Right" to the extent that he opposes the recent (past 5-8 years) trend of speech limitations on campuses across the country. Micro-aggressions and safe spaces and all that nonsense.

    By that standard, Obama is "on the Right" too; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVZVCbW63lc

    I'm right there with Harris and Obama on the campus speech issue. I'm also with libertarians on issues like civil forfeiture, eminent domain, sentencing reform, professional licensing and more.

    But I'm still left of center. Rubin and Stossel think of "the Left" as some sort of monolith. Being treated as an individual is apparently only for the non-Left.

    The parody here is the caricature of "the Left". Rubin does it occasionally, and Stossel lives and breathes caricaturing "the Left".

  • vek||

    The left made themselves a caricature, nobody had to do that for them!

  • operagost||

    I used to think Maher was a leftist pretending to be a libertarian-- kind of a poor man's Bernie Sanders-- but I'm not sure he believes in anything except his ego.

  • Michael S. Langston||

    No they don't. They regard themselves as libertarians/classic liberals.

    You're inability to not be able to see the difference doesn't mean it's not true.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Serious question to you, what do you regard as the "stereotypical progressive position"?

  • Just Say'n||

    You literally defend the progressive position on literally every topic even when your position makes absolutely no sense. You reflexively defend the FBI and CIA because progressive think they're good now and then declare that ICE is totally like slave catchers or something.

    Your positions don't make any sense outside of the fact that you're just spouting the contradictory faith of progressivism

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    You literally defend the progressive position on literally every topic

    This is demonstrably not true.

    You reflexively defend the FBI and CIA because progressive think they're good now and then declare that ICE is totally like slave catchers or something.

    This is also demonstrably not true. Where do you get this stuff?

    I don't reflexively defend the FBI and CIA. I have said that I think the CIA should be abolished! I have never called ICE akin to slave catchers. I have questioned whether we really need an interior immigration enforcement agency or not.

    Where do you get this stuff? It seems as though you aren't really reading what I write, and are just projecting progressive positions onto me.

  • Just Say'n||

    This is demonstrably true to anyone who reads your contradictory comments

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    I have said over and over again that the welfare state should be abolished. Is that the progressive position?

    I have said over and over again that free speech includes all speech, not just the speech that we like. Is that the progressive position?

    You are projecting a stereotypical progressive onto me, because I treat Team Red more harshly than Team Blue. Because I don't really like Team Red doesn't mean that I'm a member of Team Blue.

  • Just Say'n||

    The problem isn't that you don't like Team Red. The problem is that you are so much of a progressive that you associate John Stossel and Dave Rubin with Team Red.

    That's some profound idiocy.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Stossel and Rubin are a lot closer to Team Red than you're willing to admit.

    But even if they aren't - so what?

    "Because progressives routinely falsely labels people, that means everyone who makes a false label is a progressive"? Do you understand the logic fail in this line of thinking?

  • Just Say'n||

    Yes, anyone who associates everyone who criticizes the religious fervor of the Left with Team Red is more likely than not just a progressive. Your insular world view won't allow you to acknowledge criticism from anyone other than your enemies. Because clearly only a member of Team Red would have anything negative to say about the modern Left.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    So what is the definition of "progressive" for you? "Anyone who criticizes Team Red"? If that is your standard, then I suppose every single person here is a "progressive" since every single person here has criticized Team Red at one time or another (yes, even LC1789 and John).

  • Just Say'n||

    What the hell are you talking about? Are you haven't a conversation with someone else? What does any of this have to do with what I said?

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    And it is my personal opinion that of any columnist posting here on Reason, I think Stossel is the one most likely to vote for the Republican over the Libertarian. That doesn't make him on Team Red per se but that does make him a lot closer to it than the median Reason columnist in my view.

  • Just Say'n||

    Stossel criticized the Johnson campaign for not being really all that libertarian. I understand that that made woketarians butt hurt.

    Sorry if the truth hurts

  • Migrant Log Chipper||

    Way to prove his point, jeffy.

  • vek||

    Jeff, Stossel is probably the most likely to vote for team red over a big L Libertarian because all the other Reason writers are horrible/stupid/progressive libertarians nowadays, and unfortunately so are a lot of members of the Libertarian party... Like Johnson and Weld.

    Leftist cosmotarians are shit libertarians on sooo many levels. But just like the mainstream media, and most of the government, the left libertarians have somehow taken over almost all positions of power, and then try to convince everybody THEIR opinions are the norm, versus the aberration.

    My personal experience in real life however tells me that 80-90% of libertarians tend to be right libertarians. That Stossel would fall into that camp only seems crazy because you've bought into the idea Reason likes to push, which is that they're the only REAL libertarians, and everybody agrees with them on the issues where left and right libertarians split.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Just Say'n, you have to understand that Little Jeffy has a very limited mind. The kind that makes him believe he's a libertarian, but is in reality more of a progressive lite, and largely a useful idiot for them.

    Engaging him is a waste of time. SO many of us here, myself included, have destroyed his childish arguments over and over. Yet he insists no one will challenge him. I even have difficulty believing he's an adult. As his idiocy betrays a great deal of immaturity.

    Maybe he has some neurological problem. Totally believable.

  • Unlabelable MJGreen||

    A lot of y'all descended into parody a long time ago, but this still surprises me.

  • ||

    Dude YOU'RE BALD.

    You ARE the stereotypical progressive position.

    Wtf?

    They truly think they're 'centrist' or 'objective' or something. See my Wendy Mesley interview with Bernier above. She ASSUMES she's speaking on behalf of all 'logical' and 'woke' Canadians.

    Newsflash honey. You don't.

    Defund the CBC.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Wait. So because progressives think they are 'objective', and because I also claim to be more 'objective' than either Team Red or Team Blue, that makes me a progressive?

    The sky is blue, and the ocean is blue. Does that mean the sky is the ocean?

  • Just Say'n||

    Drop the act. You're not "objective" in any way.

    You just went off on a screed trashing John Stossel for not being kind to socialists brown shirts. If it were a bunch of conservative students playing storm troopers on college campuses there is a zero percent chance that you would be upset with Stossel for pointing that out.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    You just went off on a screed trashing John Stossel for not being kind to socialists brown shirts.

    I said absolutely nothing about Stossel being kind or not kind to anyone.

    You are just reading what you want to read.

  • Just Say'n||

    "They regard themselves as "on the right"."

    You didn't just say that?

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Fine, I was wrong. They don't regard themselves as "on the right".

    I made a mistake. Sorry.

    "Progressives make mistakes, chemjeff made a mistake, that makes chemjeff a progressive! A-HA!"

  • Just Say'n||

    I love how you make up false equivalencies that no one is making.

    The fact that you reflexively label Stossel and Rubin as "on the right" speakers more to your beliefs than to theirs.

  • Just Say'n||

    Even Karl Hess (who use to be associated with left-libertarianism, but would now probably be considered to be "far right") once remarked that he has taken many different political positions in his life, but he was proud to say that at no time was he ever a liberal.

    The notion that a libertarian would consider themselves "on the Right" is not some radical concept. But, Stossel doesn't even identify as such, as far as I know. He clearly is not enamored with the evangelical Left that woketarians are so in love with.

    If not being nice enough to a Left that uses fascistic tactics to silence opponents makes someone "on the Right" than pretty much every libertarian outside of Reason and half of CATO would be considered to be "on the Right".

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Here's the real rub. I suspect that you, like a lot of commenters around here, think that a "real libertarian" ought to treat Team Blue more harshly than Team Red, because "progressives are the real enemy". I disagree - the real enemy is not Team Red or Team Blue specifically, but the collectivism inherent in both of their ideologies. They are BOTH collectivist tribes. Team Blue are collectivists of the socialist variety. Team Red are collectivists of the nationalist variety. I think people ought to be treated like individuals so I reject both teams.

  • Just Say'n||

    "I suspect that you, like a lot of commenters around here, think that a "real libertarian" ought to treat Team Blue more harshly than Team Red, because "progressives are the real enemy".

    I voted Democrat during the Bush years, because I opposed the War in Iraq and the Patriot Act and Democrats pretended like they opposed these things too. I think Democrat Tulsi Gabbard is the second best member in the House of Representatives. Your point makes no sense, because you assume that people look at everything in terms of Democrat or Republican, when you seem to be the commentator most obsessed with those classifications.

    You continue to use the terms "conservative" interchangeably with "Republican" and also continue to use "progressive" interchangeably with "Democrat". These are not synonyms.

    But, yes, I fear progressives far more than conservatives. It's probably because they riot when they don't win an election and use intimidation tactics against their political opponents. I would fear conservatives more if they behaved the same way, but alas they don't which is what makes your position so utterly bizarre.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Well then that's all this is. I wasn't sufficiently deferential to Stossel in your view and I suppose that makes me a "progressive". Well whatevs. I think Stossel is a fine guy, but I don't worship the man.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Oh bullshit. There is no equivalency. The worst case with team red is life becomes like it was in the US in the 50's. The worst case with team blue is life becomes like it was in the Soviet Union in the 50's.

    Hardly identical or equivalent.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Little Jeffy once again denying what he just said. He also claims to not use ad hominem attacks. Usually shortly after making ad hominem attacks.

  • sarcasmic||

    So many people don't seem to understand what ad hominem means.

    If I was to say LotS is a poo-poo head, and therefore everything he says is wrong, then that would be an ad hominem.

    If I was to say LotS makes really stupid arguments, and that makes him a poo-poo head, then that would not be an ad hominem.

    Calling someone names or making observations is not ad hominem.

    Judging someone's argument based upon the person, not the argument itself, is an ad hominem.

    For example whenever there is a Chapman article, and all the usual suspects say the article is crap because Chapman is a dumbass, they are engaging in ad hominem argumentation.

  • Just Say'n||

    That's not fair. He didn't insult me and was more than willing to respond to my comments. No need for name calling. Chemjeff is decent about not insulting people

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Except when he isn't. To clarify, I wasn't saying he attacked you in that manner. Just that he has done so in the past and then shortly after claimed not to. For which others immediately called him out on it.

    The point is that it's part of a pattern, between his bad arguments, delusional denial, constant reliance on false equivalences, lack of maturity, etc..

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    To add to what. Already said, Jeffy frequently calls people racist when they disagree over certain aspects of immigration. Including deporting illegals.

  • vek||

    "Oh bullshit. There is no equivalency. The worst case with team red is life becomes like it was in the US in the 50's. The worst case with team blue is life becomes like it was in the Soviet Union in the 50's.

    Hardly identical or equivalent."

    This times 1 million. A lot of people seem to not realize that the left is no longer semi-sane people who think there should be better benefits for working class folks or whatever, a-la JFK, Carter, or even Bill Clinton in the 90s. They've gone full tilt boogie nuts.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    What exactly is "progressive" about pointing out that Republicans aren't exactly the rugged individualists that they claim to be?

  • Just Say'n||

    Probably the fact that Stossel and Rubin are not Republicans? How did you get this dumb?

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    He says that conservatives are willing to sit down with them and talk with them because, according to them, conservatives treat people like individuals. And I am calling baloney on that claim. Conservatives are willing to talk to people like Stossel and Rubin because people like Stossel and Rubin flatter them.

  • Just Say'n||

    Yet, you use "conservative" and "Republican" interchangeably. And they are right that only conservatives will engage with others, primarily because they are shunned by the progressive college campuses and large media outlets.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Yes. It isn't because conservatives are some bunch of rugged individualists. That is just Rush Limbaugh blather. Conservatives are just as much collectivists as liberals are. They just make different choices about the nature and scope of the collectivism. That is my point. Thank you for agreeing with me.

  • Just Say'n||

    WTF does any of that have to do with anything?

    Trashing John Stossel is some profoundly dumb bullshit.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Stossel is not immune from criticism. No one is. Sorry that you think that he is. And I didn't even criticize him anyway! I am criticizing the Republicans whom they think like Rubin & Stossel because "they're individualists". No that's not correct.

  • Just Say'n||

    You absolutely criticized John Stossel for chastising your progressive friends.

    For a guy who supposedly is totes not on Team Blue or Team Red, you defend progressives with an undying devotion more slavishly than LC and Trump

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    You absolutely criticized John Stossel for chastising your progressive friends.

    I said absolutely nothing about Stossel's criticism of progressives. NO-THING. You are just making shit up now.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    "Trashing John Stossel is some profoundly dumb bullshit."

    In Little Jeffy's defense, he is a profoundly dumb shit.

  • Just Say'n||

    That's not fair. He didn't insult me and was more than willing to respond to my comments. No need for name calling. Chemjeff is decent about not insulting people

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    "Chemjeff is decent about not insulting people"

    Except when he's not. Sorry, but I no longer have as much patience with him as you do.

    Apologies if I appear harsh.

  • Just Say'n||

    Radical collectivist has thoughts. All of them just progressive talking points couched in vague language about maybe, at some point, possibly reducing government, maybe. If the NYT is OK with that, obviously.

    Woketarianism is a brain disease and a moral failing

  • ||

    I experienced the same thing. I generally had more civil discussions on conservative/libertarian sites than anything on the left. Left-wingers are sophists. They have no principles. Worse, you can't even discuss history because they're illiterate.

    This is over 20 years of having read and observed the progressive left.

    They're intellectual delinquents. Krugman claiming conservatives have lost in the hall of ideas is one piece of comical absurdity. What smug door knobs him don't get is they ALREADY LOST. They just haven't realized the series is over.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    +1

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Rufus.

  • ||

    Same with science. Just because you 'fucking love science' doesn't absolve you of your dubious positions on climate change. I'm surprised the twits who started that haven't branched off into 'I fucking love history!".

    No you don't. You fucking love narratives.

  • vek||

    Jeff, you moron, it is beyond question that conservatives in the modern meaning in the USA are infinitely more individualist than leftists. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a moron.

    The fact is that being a rugged individualist does not mean one cannot believe in concepts such as: nation states, cultures, civilizations, peoples, ethnicities, etc.

    These concepts are real and valuable concepts. One can believe in a very individualistic society without denying the concept of the nation state. Or denying that peoples have cultures, which when combined (the people and the culture) create a civilization. These are real deal shit. Conservatives are not delusionally individualistic in that they pretend reality doesn't exist as it actually does exist, like some extremist libertarians do. Problem is, conservatives are RIGHT about these things being real and important, and "radical individualists" are the ones denying reality.

    So accepting that cultures and nation states exist, but that it's good to have a pretty individualistic society doesn't make one a "horrible collectivist" in and of itself. The founders believed in all these things, and created the most individualistic nation in the history of mankind.

  • NashTiger||

    The concept of Social Justice is antithetical to individualism. And Social Justice and Group identity/Intersectionality is what defines and drives the Progressives today.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    Undocumented immigrants are rapists and murderers.
    College professors are Marxist indoctrinators.
    People living in blue coastal states are inauthentically American.
    People living in flyover country are the "real Americans".
    Muslims are terrorists.
    Democrats are evil.

    I think I missed a few sweeping generalizations

  • esteve7||

    "College professors are Marxist indoctrinators."

    Prove me wrong. It's like you haven't been to college. When my history teacher said on day 1 of my freshman year that Zinn would be our only book and "it's ok to be Republican but it's not in hell"....

    I would say they are inquisitors too. Look at Lindsey Shepard or the 100 member diversity staff at most colleges.

  • chemjeff radical individualist||

    You do realize that there are more departments in college besides the history department, right?

  • LeaveTrumpAloneLiberal-tarian||

    Dude, I know. When my college professor wrote the equation DeltaG=DeltaH-TDeltaS and then called it the Gibbs Free Energy Equation I knew I was in for a round of hippie dippie Marxist indoctrination. Boy am I glad i'm Outta there.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Someone who can do complex equations should be able to do a simple budget to pay their mortgage.

  • ||

    The Canadian girl? Er, do you know what faculties tried to do to Shephard?

  • Just Say'n||

    Notice how you respond to a valid criticism of the Left with talking about Republicans. Despite the fact that neither Stossel nor Rubin are Republicans. And regardless of the fact that most of the people who can't talk on college campuses because of the Leftist brown shirts are not Republicans.

    Your brain is broken

  • Migrant Log Chipper||

    It's astonishing and amusing watching jeffy tap dance around this when you have him dead to rights. It's what he does.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Jeffy, every one of those statements is to true to a certain degree. They all stand out. Mo one is saying any of those things amplifies to 100% of their group. But this is the sort of idiotic reaction you have when these things are brought up. Just like a progressive does to dismiss a logical correlation between various activities and their protected classes.

    People like you try and suppress a sober, reasonable discussion on any of those subjects through hyperbolic dismissal.

  • vek||

    As someone who has lived in blue coastal states my whole life, they aren't.

    The majority in these areas nowadays DOES NOT believe in any of the main planks of what America was founded on. So yeah, that makes them un-American in my book.

    You're basically saying that if a person spoke exclusively Japanese, lived in a Japanese style house, believed exclusively in Japanese traditional culture, pushed by Japanese style legal systems, etc BUT they lived in a geographic area that happened to be in Germany, that they're "Germans."

    But they wouldn't be REAL Germans if that was the way they lived. That is what coastal lefties are in America. They may live here, but they believe in basically nothing that America is supposed to be anymore. Hence un-American.

    Most of the rest of your nonsense things are basically just as ridiculous too. There are REASONS all those things are said, with varying degrees of rightness.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    "Rubin calls the atmosphere on many campuses an 'Oppression Olympics,' where students and faculty compete to be the biggest victim. As a result, ideas that offend 'victims' are often off limits for discussion."

    Yes, that seems about right. Nothing shuts down the opposition as well as simply forbidding them from saying anything. An interesting discussion would address just how we got to this point of "You can't say that."

  • Rockabilly||

    Sounds like hate speech. Wait until the twitter hears about it.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Will all the twits and twats be storming the castle with pitchforks and torches?

  • Unlabelable MJGreen||

    Man, we're losing "ancap," we're losing "classical liberal," some socialists are making a hard push for "libertarian socialism." And a label is all I have!!!

  • operagost||

    "When Rubin, who is gay, tried to give a speech at the University of New Hampshire, a gender studies professor screamed, "we don't want you in the LGBT community, so get the f*** out.""

    The irony of this would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. Maybe we'll come full circle, and the left will demand government enforced gay reversal therapy to remove political pariahs from the LGBT "community"?

  • walkaway_nov6||

    I'm sure they've been thinking about it.

    They'll eat their own to keep the progressive bubble intact.

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