Is America Really Going to War for Greenland?

Plus: Threats of new tariffs on NATO allies, masked federal agents stir unrest in Minnesota, and Trump’s new health care proposal.

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Is America Really Going to War for Greenland?

This week, editors Peter Suderman and Matt Welch are joined by novelist and Reason contributor Kat Rosenfield and head of media for the Institute of Economic Affairs Reem Ibrahim to assess the mounting confrontation between the United States and its European allies over Greenland. Trump's tariff threats, talk of national security emergencies, exchanges between world leaders, and speculation about military force have pushed an unusual territorial dispute into the center of trans-Atlantic politics. The group considers what the confrontation means for NATO and trade policy with Europe.

The conversation then turns to Minnesota, where masked federal agents continue detaining and harassing people in the aftermath of the Renee Good killing, prompting legal battles, disputes with state officials, and concerns about civil liberties. They also examine Trump's newly announced health care plan and what it signals about his domestic policy priorities. A listener then asks whether libertarians have any reason to want Greenland as part of the United States.

 

0:00—U.S. maneuvering to acquire Greenland

08:22—Trump's relationships with Russia and Europe

24:09—ICE confrontations spark unrest in Minnesota

40:32—Listener question on libertarian desires for Greenland

45:51—Trump's health care proposal

55:47—Weekly cultural recommendations

 

Upcoming Reason Events

The Reason Roundtable: Live in Washington, D.C.! February 4

 

Mentioned in the podcast:

"Trump 2.0, Year 1: A Libertarian Nightmare," by Brian Doherty

"Donroe," by Liz Wolfe

"Greenlanders Don't Consent To Becoming Americans," by J.D. Tuccille

"Seizing Greenland Might Be the Least Popular Idea in American Political History," by Eric Boehm

"As ICE Cracks Down Harder, Support for Abolishing ICE Surges," by Joe Lancaster

"'We Are Not Investigating' the Shooting of Renee Good, the Deputy Attorney General Says," by Jacob Sullum

"ICE Agents Flouted DHS Policies That Could Have Prevented Renee Good's Death," by Jacob Sullum

"Video Shows Feds Shooting ICE Protester With Nonlethal Round at Point-Blank Range, Blinding Him in One Eye," by Autumn Billings

"Federal Agents Used a Battering Ram To Enter a Minneapolis Home Without Valid Warrant, Video Shows," by Autumn Billings

"No, ICE Agents Do Not Have 'Absolute Immunity' From State Prosecution," by Damon Root

"Trump's 'Great Healthcare Plan' Has Promise but Should Add More Freedom for Americans," by J.D. Tuccille

"28 Years Later: The Bone Temple Delivers Anarchy in the U.K., Again," by Peter Suderman

"Movies," by John Hospers

• Producer: Paul Alexander
• Video Editor: Ian Keyser

What are we consuming this week?

Matt Welch

• North Dallas Forty

Peter Suderman

• 28 Years Later: The Bone Temple

Kat Rosenfield

• The Beast in Me

Reem Ibrahim

• Lady Chatterley's Lover, by D.H. Lawrence

---

Comments

[Minadin]

No.

[Social Justice is neither]

But what if Leftist retards really, really need it as a talking point for their mutual masturbation podcast?

[JFree]

Europe is so vassalized and comfortable in their vassalization now. I don't think they even realize that NATO is not an alliance. It is a rather annoying and expensive obligation by the US to walk everyone's poodle.

They can't even process their own opinions about Russia. They bark as if they are enemies but in fact have become even more dependent over the last four years on having the US solve whatever problems arise now.

And they are so tin eared that they really believe that "Well by mutual agreement the US can spend whatever the US wants on Greenland so what's the problem?"

[Fu Manchu]

You are right that Europe has gotten soft as fuck and needs to pull its weight. And I'm all for the US not writing Europe a blank check for defense. And perhaps NATO is just not worth it and shouldn't exist. But suggesting the US doesn't benefit from NATO is fucking retarded. The US gets significant benefits from NATO, such as intelligence sharing, bases, soft power, and weapons sales.

[JFree]

Most of the 'benefit' that the US gets from NATO is to enable the US to project power even further into Eurasia. That is exactly what the US should be questioning - for ourselves. We aren't - but we should.

Further, the whole arms sales and corrupt '2% of GDP' target is a serious problem. We can no longer produce weapons for real war because our defense budget is for MIC profits and special ops/video gee-whizzery. Russia is outproducing the US/NATO by 5x re artillery/ammo.

I wish the US still had some diplomatic/soft power. But we don't and we don't care and Europe has none either. BRICS is winning that.

[Fu Manchu]

The guy is fucking pants on head retarded and nutso. And his note to the PM of Norway really takes the cake. He's not fully committed to peace because he didn't win a prize - LOL, is he in Kindergarten? Denmark has no documentation that it owns Greenland - LMAO what a retard. He thinks the gov't of Norway should have rigged the Nobel committee to give him the prize - makes sense, because that's what he would do. And no explanation of why he would take one country's territory due to a grievance with another - does he think Norway is Denmark?

But I'm sure cultist faggots here will handwave it all away.

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

The cultist faggots here are you, the pedophile, the morbidly obese pedophile. JewFree, Guv’na Shrike, Quixy, and Misconstrueman.

If you think differently, that would be Walz +7 thinking.

[GOD OF PENGUIN ISLAND]

Poor sarc.

[Vernon Depner]

Minnesota, where masked federal agents paid rioters continue detaining and harassing people

Fixed it.

[Jack Jordan]

Trump shouldn't be given the chance to take us to war (military or economic) against our most important allies--especially when they're already combatting one of our most powerful enemies after it invaded another nation. It is past time to put and end to Trump's tenure. The People in our Constitution decreed that "[t]he President . . . shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction" any "high Crimes [or high] Misdemeanors." Trump is guilty of "Conspiracy to commit offense or to defraud United States," which Congress (and a previous president) defined in 18 U.S.C. § 371.

As the Preamble emphasizes, "We the People" did "ordain and establish [our] Constitution" for particularly important purposes, including to "establish Justice" and to "provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves." The People in Article VI established that "the supreme Law of the Land" consists exclusively of our "Constitution" and federal "Laws" that were "made in Pursuance thereof" and "all Treaties."

Now, Trump is abusing our economic and military power to threaten our allies in violation of treaties that are part of the supreme law of the land. Too many times and too dangerously, Trump has trampled on our Constitution (especially the First Amendment), federal laws made in pursuance of our Constitution and treaties. It is past time to impeach, convict and remove Trump from office.

[Vernon Depner]

"Allies" in what? What common interest do we have at this point with Britstan or Belgistan?

[Jack Jordan]

Vernon, this isn't hard to grasp. The governing principles were stated plainly in the plain text of our Constitution.

The People vested in the president ONLY the power to "faithfully execute the Office of President," i.e., "to the best of [his] Ability, preserve, protect and defend [our] Constitution." The People established and emphasized the President's duty to "take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed."

The People in Article VI established that "the supreme Law of the Land" consists exclusively of our "Constitution" and federal "Laws" that were "made in Pursuance thereof" and "all Treaties."

Clearly and irrefutably, no president was given any discretionary power to violate the supreme law of the land. "We the People" did "ordain and establish [our] Constitution" for profoundly important purposes, including to "establish Justice" and to "provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves."

Now is the time to say Trump has crossed the Rubicon. Now also is the time to recall what that expression actually meant. We should say that Trump has crossed the Rubicon because of the original meaning of that expression. It meant, specifically, the commander of an army leading that army where the law said the army was not allowed to go. Trump has crossed the Rubicon in that more limited, more powerful and more ominous sense. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossing_the_Rubicon.

Acknowledging the real meaning of crossing the Rubicon belies the pretense by six unhinged SCOTUS justices in Trump v. United States that our Constitution (and the people who wrote and ratified it) somehow meant that the President cannot be prosecuted criminally for misconduct in which the President leads other federal employees. The Americans of the 1770's-1790's read a lot about Rome and Greece and the people who destroyed them both. The type of person they feared maybe most of all was an American Ceasar.

[Vernon Depner]

Unresponsive.

[MollyGodiva]

MAGAs are the dumbest fucks on the planet.

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

dumbest fucks on the planet

Remember when you told us that everyone who knows COBOL is dead?

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Not even in the same ballpark as you, asswipe. Fuck off and die.

[MasterThief]

I'll just respond to the headline.
1. No we aren't. The aim is to purchase or offer some sort of mutually beneficial relationship with Greenland where we gain from them becoming independent from Denmark.
2. The tariff conversation here needs to start by considering what tariffs are being applied to our goods by the same countries. I agree that they are bad, but this one-way shit doesn't help us.
3. It isn't the federal agents causing unrest. It is the illegal aliens who refuse to respect our laws and leave. It is the leftists attacking federal agents and impeding their lawful duties that is causing unrest. It is Reason and the media's support of their domestic terrorism that is creating unrest. Get fucked.
4. I know nothing of Trump's healthcare proposal and have no faith that Reason will accurately or charitably cover it. I doubt the proposal does what it needs to do: dramatically reduce government's involvement and limit the control by insurance companies. We need to get back to where the consumer can know the price of services ahead of time and pay for them at time of service. Price transparency and direct payment by users will eliminate much of the gouging consumers face.

[Jack Jordan]

It's appropriate that "MasterThief" characterizes stealing land from another nation as "some sort of mutually beneficial relationship with Greenland where we gain from them becoming independent from Denmark."

[mtrueman]

"We need to get back to where the consumer can know the price of services ahead of time and pay for them at time of service. "

The easiest way to do this is to issue a license to practice medicine to every student who graduates high school. That way, they will be able to diagnose their own complaints, and prescribe their own treatments, knowing full well the costs incurred at every stage.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

Jordan and trueman here to prove MG has a higher IQ than at least two assholes.

[Set Us Up The Chipper]

No.

The Eurotards/Libtards are engaging in a rape fantasy.

[Uomo Del Ghiaccio]

As someone who didn't vote for Trump and never have, don't really like him and find him to be mediocre.

I hate to admit it, but Trump does have a valid point. He is seeking increasing the number of bases in the arctic that are not Russian.

Trump sees him self as the ultimate negotiator and he NEVER, EVER, removes any options from the table out of pure principle. Trump is not an ideologue on normal political things, but he is absolutely an ideologue related to how to negotiate.

Trump want Europe to pony up and pay for their part of their security instead of expecting the USA to protect them and foot the bill. Instead of being idiots, open your eyes and see the reoccurring theme as it is very apparent. This is not 4-D chess, just stop listening to the biased corporate media pundits with their propagandist agenda and use your own eyes and ears.

Facts are that Russia has 32 military bases in the arctic and has been massively expanding in recent years. The entire eastern area is protected by a single military base, when of course is a US base located in Greenland. The next closes base with strike capabilities is in Alaska which are also US bases. There are a few Canadian bases which are not capable of launching a strike and are barely manned. Norway has bases, but they are almost as faraway as Alaska.

Russia has bases within range that could launch a military strike on the base in Greenland that could take out or seriously degrade it out before either Alaska or Norway could respond. This is a gaping hole in our defense. Specifically the defense of the USA. This hole opens up a window where missiles could glide towards the USA from the north. The base in Greenland with a single runway is critical for the early warning system.

The facts are that there should be 3-5 military bases with strike capabilities on Greenland simply because it would be more difficult to knock out the early warning system. There should also be 3-5 military bases with strike capabilities in Canadian arctic region.

Both Europe and Canada need to step up to the plate or get out of the way. This is essentially what Trump is saying. They need to stop pretending that Putin is the next Hitler out of one side of the their mouths and then not worry about the massive growth in Russian arctic bases with strike capabilities. Pick one!

Don't expect the USA to to be your Sugar Daddy, we simply can't afford it.

[S Brosseau]

Definitely NOT one of your better episodes.
I come to this podcast to hear calm, reasoned analysis from a libertarian perspective. Instead we got the same unhinged hysteria about Greenland spewing from the mainstream media. Less than 2 days after this podcast the kerfuffle is over and fading away -- which was always the most likely result.
Peter, Matt, and all, next time take a breath, think things through a bit more, and lay coffee before the podcast.
BTW, Euro-chauvinist Reem Ibrahim contributed nothing useful to the conversation (though we now know she has lousy taste in wine).

[minus the clever name]

Denmark forcibly steriliized the non-Dane-Descent residents on Greenland and they represent 75% of the population. It is right and just that we take Greenland.