Can J.D. Vance Stop a MAGA Civil War?

Plus: Debating marijuana at Turning Point USA, Massie and Khanna threaten Bondi with contempt over Epstein files, and Minnesota’s welfare fraud case.

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Can J.D. Vance Stop a MAGA Civil War?

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This week, editors Peter Suderman, Katherine Mangu-Ward, and Matt Welch are joined by Reason reporter Eric Boehm to discuss Turning Point USA's AmericaFest and the GOP coalescing around Vice President J.D. Vance as President Donald Trump's successor. They analyze Sen. Rand Paul's (R–Ky.) opposition to endorsing Vance as the party's next standard-bearer, and whether this signals he will challenge Vance for the nomination in 2028. Katherine also shares what it was like attending the conference, plus her debate over marijuana legalization as the Trump administration moves to reclassify marijuana from Schedule I to Schedule III.

The editors then turn to the bipartisan backlash over the latest Jeffrey Epstein file release, in which more than 500 pages were completely redacted, prompting Reps. Thomas Massie (R–Ky.) and Ro Khanna (D–Calif.) to threaten charges of "inherent contempt" against Attorney General Pam Bondi. The panel also discusses the Trump administration's seizure of additional Venezuelan oil tankers, plus the announcement of new military strikes in Syria. They dig into Minnesota's widening welfare fraud scandal, and whether conservative media is using it to scapegoat Somali immigrants. A listener asks whether Christmas expands our "socialist bubble" of family and community and what that says about capitalism, socialism, and human nature.

 

0:00—Debating marijuana at Turning Point USA

4:10—J.D. Vance is the MAGA heir apparent

14:47—Massie and Khanna react to Epstein file release

25:14—U.S. foreign policy in Venezuela and Syria

38:09—Listener question on socialism and Christmas

47:59—Minnesota welfare fraud scandal

1:01:28—Weekly cultural recommendations

 

Mentioned in This Podcast

"Cannavictory," by Liz Wolfe

"Trump Orders the 'Expeditious' Reclassification of Marijuana," by Jacob Sullum

"Heritage Foundation Undergoes Mass Staff Exodus as Cracks Open on the New Right," by Stephanie Slade

"Epstein Wanted To Turn His Island Into a Resort for Paying Customers," by Matthew Petti

"Oil Tanker Seized," by Liz Wolfe

"If the Syrian War Is Over, Why Are Americans Still Getting Killed in Syria?" by Matthew Petti

"Trump's Somali Insults Are a Disgrace," by Steven Greenhut

"The Real Villain in Minnesota's $1.5 Billion Fraud Scandal Isn't Somalis—It's the Feds," by Jack Nicastro

"Medicare Whac-A-Mole," by Peter Suderman

"What We Get Wrong About the American Revolution," by Nick Gillespie

"Avatar: Fire and Ash Is Part Spectacle, Part Retread," by Peter Suderman

• Producer: Paul Alexander
• Video Editor: Ian Keyser

What are we consuming this week?

Eric Boehm

• John Mulaney: Mister Whatever

Matt Welch

• The American Revolution, by Ken Burns

Katherine Mangu-Ward

• Waymo

Peter Suderman

• Avatar: Fire and Ash

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Comments

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

How many DNC civil war articles do we have about moderate and socialists?

[Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)]

They don’t have weapons.

[Social Justice is neither]

It's poor form to kick a retard.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Good one!

[ML (now paying)]

To be fair the party moderates started spreading their bum cheeks for the extremists back in 2008. It's all extremism now.
The ones who couldn't stomach the evil left, like Tulsi for example.

[Michael Ejercito]

I wonder how that came to be.

[Butler T. Reynolds]

1. If you hadn't noticed, the nationalists are in power now.
2. You wouldn't read it anyway.

[mad.casual]

1. You can't get enough of it can you?
2. Recursively punching yourself in the nuts with oblivious/retarded question-begging.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Poor globalist cuck.

[Neutral not Neutered]

As opposed to the last administration, globalists who hate America and want to fundamentally transform it into a Marxist Utopia?

Sorry Trump and the GOP have crushed your dreams, you were getting so close...

[ruffsoft]

Yes, the utopian dreams of universal healthcare, free college, safe streets, and peace which the other 34 ADvanced nations have, have been crushed by Trump. HOw can you trickle down wealth if tou first don't take it from the poor and send it to the very rich?

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Everything Is So Terrible And Unfair, softie.

Lol. What a doosh.

[Neutral not Neutered]

You are crying about safer streets and more peace because orangemanbad? Yet Trump is providing safer streets, lower cost of living, more opportunities for all including jobs and peace around the world.

Where can you go to get free college? Nothing is free. Universal healthcare is not free either. Biden illegally forgave debt he did not have the right to do and was struck down by the courts that he and the democrats decided do not have the authority to tell POTUS what to do, until orangemanbad came along?

Can you define exactly how wealth is being taken from the poor? First I believe you will need to define poor, those with a low income whom pay NO TAXES and benefit from the labor of others through free healthcare, education, food, and housing?

[mad.casual]

Rather explicitly the opposite:

Showing 4 of 4 results found for: david hogg
https://reason.com/search/david+hogg?date_start=2024-01-01

Showing 0 of 0 results found for: harry sisson
https://reason.com/search/harry+sisson/?date_start=2020-01-01

Showing 15 of 15 results found for: nick fuentes
https://reason.com/search/nick+fuentes?date_start=2025-11-01

I'm pretty sure if I looked, there are a couple of articles, maybe even one or two from Robbie "to be sure" Soave about how calling everyone Nazis for not openly hating the white race enough doesn't win elections and only fuels or even justifies actual Nazism and yet... apparently Reason and the DNC can't imagine life any other way.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Fuentes went for Kamala anyway. His core belief is socialism lite.

[TJJ2000]

JD Vance is no MAGA. Rand Paul is much-more-so.

Maybe if Reason stopped looking at everything as a [WE] gangsters RULE battle they might see the underlying promise in Making America Great Again by abolishing the [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism] w/Big-Gov-'Guns' against the citizenry.

[Fu Manchu]

Rand Paul is MAGA? Taking stupid to a whole new level...

[ML (now paying)]

What is MAGA Shrike? What's their economic philosophy? What is their social and cultural beliefs?

And real answers please. Not the made-up trolly invective you tend to spew.

[Don't look at me! ( Is the war over yet?)]

Where are the membership cards?

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

I thought he was Sarc? I know it’s hard to tell, due to extreme retardation, nonsensical raving, and extreme dishonesty being common denominators between the two pinko scumbags.

[JesseAz (RIP CK)]

Hey sarc. Did you ever end up reading the 2 page law you cited that disproved your argument the other day? Quite embarrassing for you.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Perhaps why he's gone a little quiet. His foot in his mouth with his head up his ass is a difficult puzzle for him to undo.

[ML (now paying)]

There's no such thing as MAGA as a coherent philosophy really.
It's basically just all the people whose don't want to go along with all the woke crazy shit the ruling class has been peddling.

[TJJ2000]

People who don't want to go along with all the [Na]tional So[zi]alist woke indoctrination?

As-in the 2020 DNC platform accusing Trump of (pg5) "Trump Administration’s hollowing out of our ?public? (i.e. socialist) institutions"?

Perhaps it isn't 'coherent' but it certainly isn't a blind mystery.

[Butler T. Reynolds]

90% of MAGA is whatever shoots out of Trump's rump on any given day. Rand Paul isn't that.

[TJJ2000]

...and 90% of what originally shoots out of Trumps rump is De-Regulation, Tax-Cuts & Abolishing Nazi-Agencies. Don't think Rand Paul is for that?

[SCOTUS gave JeffSarc a big sad]

Walz +4

[Neutral not Neutered]

Denial is the first symptom of willful ignorance, but in your case it might be subliminal.

[Neutral not Neutered]

They can't think beyond who they are and think everyone is like them.

[Vernon Depner]

Rand Paul can't win the general election. J.D. Vance might not be the best candidate, but nominating Paul will pretty much guarantee a Democrat president.

[mad.casual]

Agreed. And I say this as someone who has written both Rand and Ron Paul's names down in two of the last three elections.

[Uomo Del Ghiaccio]

The problem is that 80% of the base is MAGA (defined as Making America First, limiting funding of forever wars, reducing the size of government) versus 100% of the funding being MIGA (defined a Making Israel First, increasing the funding of forever wars, and reducing the size of government if and only if it helps to promote the first two items)

The older generations have been pretty universally brainwashed into viewing everything as a fight between all that is good and the next reincarnation of Hitler. They usually accept the comical justification narrative that is spun by the warmongers in the corporate media and MIGA proponents in both the Democrat and Republican parties.

The younger generations are more distant from WWII and less susceptible to the brainwashing tactics. As a result they are more likely to question the large gaps and glossed over aspects that the warmongers narrative depend on.

Of course, there are exceptions to this, but that is the trend. Also consider that the percentage of this older generation is getting smaller and the percentage of this younger generation is getting larger in terms of voting.

As to the question of JD Vance and if he will be able to successfully navigate this divide? Way too soon to know and there are way too many variables that could derail, hamper, invigorate, or elevate JD Vance or someone else.

Donors are important, but only because running a campaign costs a lot of money. However with every large donation, you lose a little bit of your soul and take one step towards compromising your ideals.

I argue that your base is more important than the donors simply because you build up strength and character to enhance your soul because you are standing for something that you believe if. Yes, there are grifters, but I'm assuming we are talking about authentic politicians and not the plastic lizards that are far too common.

If I was JD Vance and the goal was to run and become the next president (Prediction: Trump will not be running for a 3rd term), I would embrace the 80% of the MAGA base (see definitions above) instead of capitulating to the warmongering MIGA donors.

I don't believe that JD Vance needs the warmongering MIGA donors as much as they need JD Vance. I believe that some of the less warmongering MIGA donors will still support him, but some of the more warmongering MIGA donors will not.

It will be a difficult and narrow path and it make more sense for the two schizophrenic major parties to fracture into more logical factions. However, the two corrupt political parties have a long history of gaming elections to protect incumbents, making is nearly impossible for any third party to gain traction.

If one were to devise a PSYOP to control the people, but make them believe that they were in control, the current Uni-Party scenario we have would be a solid plan. Not saying that it is actually a PSYOP, but if one were to devise one, we have a working example. As I've heard many time before, "No matter who you vote for, you get John McCain".

[Use the Schwartz]

"Making Israel First."

Here you are again like a horny teen sticking your anti-semitism into everything.

[Ersatz]

I'd happily give Israel all the Federal financial commitment otherwise given to Minnesota as they are more pro-America than the pro Islamic caliphate that is that states government.

[Heresolong]

^^^^ Nice.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

"...versus 100% of the funding being MIGA (defined a Making Israel First,..."

Fuck off and die, Nazi shitbag.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Geesh got nothing to say bad this week bout Trump and the GOP so try to create a crisis from thin air? Wow.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

Actual real libertarians understand that free speech does not equal a "civil war". In fact it's precisely the opposite, free speech and robust open debate are absolutely essential in a constitutional republic or any kind of truly free society.

Of course these wretches aren't real libertarians, they're a bunch of lefties who ate play-acting at being something they're not. And they travel alnost exclusively Iin circles where you're not allowed to question leftist orthodoxy or you'll be cast out, and they eetainly don't want to lose any of their leftist friends and associates. And alnost no one here is fooled by their stale, old, worn out bullshit act.

[Neutral not Neutered]

Hope fueled hate or hate fueled hope, either way it highlights their failures and lack of a plan or a direction. Democrats have carried the fear and hate and attacks for so long they completely lost their way and now are stuck in a fevered dream with an extreme base of nobody's.

And yes, at least half the country, well up to 70% overall, is willing to speak directly to the real issues and want common sense solutions while keeping America, America...

[DesigNate]

The fact that every fucking outlet in the MSM, and then some, are all breathlessly parroting the same thing makes me think this some major astroturfing campaign to will such a break into existence. Much like all of their other narratives.

[Juliana Frink]

No doubt about it: Wishcasting 101.

Ah well, it's helpful that they are so easy to peg. Makes you wonder how they get any traction at all.

[Heresolong]

Basically this. You get a couple people (Tucker and Owens) who used to seem pretty conservative, you get one person (Fuentes) who has always come across as a bit of a grifter, they say kooky things, the right says "Go away", and it's a civil war. I suspect that the MSM (also Reason) are hoping that people will leave the right and either not vote or vote Dem; or that folks on the right will push back against the MSM narrative by keeping the kooks around, thus doing to the conservative movement what AOC and the squad have done to the left.

[ruffsoft]

As Humpty Trumpty falls down, his base fight over who will succeed him. That is where Vance comes in, hoping to win the title. However, his transformation from a man who called Trump a Hitler to an ass-kissing servant, will doom his quest, as Democrats take over in 2026 and Trump uses him as the scapegoat for his loss of power.

[Sevo, 5-30-24, embarrassment]

TDS-addled steaming pile of lying lefty shit lies.
Fuck off and die, asswipe.

[Neutral not Neutered]

What will you do when your predictions do not come true? Will you respect the will of the people for providing more seats in the house and senate to the GOP to further Trump's agenda and fix the failures of the democrats from decades of being in charge?

Probably not because this would mean admitting you backed a failed ideology and policies that are un American and America will not be fundamentally transformed which will probably make you even more angry so you will sling more hate and lies.