Nico Perrino: What the Trump-Musk Alliance Means for Free Speech

FIRE’s executive V.P. discusses the Biden administration's failures, Donald Trump and Elon Musk’s influence on free speech, and the most pressing First Amendment issues facing the U.S. today.

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Nico Perrino: What the Trump-Musk Alliance Means for Free Speech

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Today's guest is Nico Perrino, executive vice president at the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE), director of the 2020 documentary Mighty Ira, which profiles the longtime head of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), and the author of a forthcoming book on the triumph of civil libertarians.

He's also the host of the popular podcast So to Speak, which takes an "uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech." Reason's Nick Gillespie talks with him about the Biden administration's rotten record on speech issues, his hopes and fears for President Donald Trump's second term, and why he worries that, when it comes to speech, Elon Musk is "suffering from the curse of power, which is censorship."

0:00- Introduction

1:29- Biden administration's record on free speech

8:22- Internal and external pressures on tech platforms to censor

11:00- Double standards on free speech

12:19- Will speech be freer under Trump than Biden?

18:49- The TikTok 'ban' & DeepSeek AI

28:23- Elon Musk: friend or foe to free speech? 31:10- Free speech culture

36:00- What was 'cancel culture'?

39:22- Institutional neutrality and campus speech post-Oct 7

46:43- Generational attitude shifts on free speech

 

Today's sponsor:

• The Reason Speakeasy. The Reason Speakeasy is a monthly, unscripted conversation in New York City with outspoken defenders of free thinking and heterodoxy in an age of intellectual conformity and groupthink. It doubles as a live taping of The Reason Interview with Nick Gillespie podcast. The next one takes place on Thursday, February 27, and features Brian Doherty talking about his new book, Modern Libertarianism: A Brief History of Classical Liberalism in the United States. Go here to buy tickets and go here to sign up for Reason's NYC events newsletter.

• Video Editor: Ian Keyser

Comments

[Idaho-Bob]

his hopes and fears for President Donald Trump's second term, and why he worries that, when it comes to speech, Elon Musk is "suffering from the curse of power, which is censorship."

Speculation and nothing more.

Now begins the chants of "rocket man bad".

[But SkyNet is a Private Company]

Holy fvckin shit. I wasn't gonna subject myself to this, because i was worried somehow the guy who saved Free Speech in America would be cast as the hypothetical villain

[Spiritus Mundi]

Has a Democracy Dies in Darkness feel about it.

D-

[Dillinger]

>>What was 'cancel culture'?

Salem, Mass c.2000s

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

2 free speech articles today. 2 more than Mackey articles. Probably closed to tied for censorship articles under Biden.

[VULGAR MADMAN]

I’m just curious to see how many media outlets were funded by USAID.

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

People are digging. Check other thread.

[InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)]

We’re at Politico, the AP, Reuters. and the New York Times so far. Others are digging on X and finding some very interesting payouts and connections between nonprofits that you never guessed were even there.

[Dillinger]

I've seen BBC too through Gates ...

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

Even daily mail and Telegraph are there now.

[MollyGodiva]

Musk has a history of censorship on X, and Trump has a history of suing those who say things he does not like. Free speech protections don't look safe.

[David Perry]

Musk has published guidelines about what can and can't be said on the platform. Is there any indication he has 'censored' based on viewpoints, or are you pointing out that things like child porn and doxxing people are not allowed? Is not allowing those things 'bad' in your estimation?

Trump has a history of suing those who libel him, and has won at least one case and another is in process (and doesn't look great for those he is suing as they are apparently discussing rolling over.) Are you saying Trump is not allowed to sue for libel? Is there anything else he is not allowed to do that other citizens are?

Its funny when you refer to a 'history of censorship' when the Twitter files et al have shined the light on how the prior administration leaned on private organizations to censor things they didn't like. Any comment on that? Or was that (D)ifferent?

[Overt]

Spot on. +1

[TJJ2000]

Indeed. [phone].

[Bertram Guilfoyle]

Musk has a history of censorship on X

Tony also said this yesterday while failing to provide a cite.

[TJJ2000]

Blaming everyone else on exactly what they did....
What leftard Self-Projection is all about.

[With Trump in, "now Lord you can let your servant go in peace"]

Molly , two logic errors.
A history of censorship can't be good or bad unless you oppose all censorship no mantter what. But you never say that. So it comes down to whether it is a good history of bad history

Same with the Trump statement. False things, foul things no one likes so again it is the statements and not you that matters.

In fine, you said nothing substantive in your post

[Carlos Inconvenience]

Who wants to place bets on when we find out that Reason is one of the recipients of USAID largess, along with AP and Politico?

[InsaneTrollLogic (On The List!)]

I’m willing to bet Reason is on that list. How else can you explain some of these articles?

[Vesicant]

Ooooh, I just couldn't live without knowing how Nico Perrino feels about something.

[Brandybuck]

The "Free Speech" Right is pretty much the same as the Left: Fierce adherence to "free speech for me not for thee".

[VULGAR MADMAN]

Branyfuck: “If I can’t censor people that’s censorship!”

[JesseAz (mean girl ambassador)]

You've justified censorship from the left for a decade lol. We are laughing about the exposure of government funds going to media. Totes the same.

Fucking gov shill.

[TJJ2000]

It is important that the Trump-Musk alliance stay out of the censorship arena.
Maybe all those [D] congressmen censorship letters should be even MORE important.

Seems "fear mongering" on what might happen versus what has already happened is the new fad.

[With Trump in, "now Lord you can let your servant go in peace"]

Some clarification cries to be made.

The central principle is Freedom of Religion.
https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/religious-liberty-and-the-genius-of-the-american-founding/

Not every case , by far, that involves speech of some kind can be made into a Freedom fo Speech case. See Clarence Thomas on the cross-burning case.

And assessing someone's views on freedom of speech without knowing their beliefs is useless. Eg on abortion you can't tell until you know whether the person supposrts kiling a a baby up to and even after birth --- whether he is being accepting or not of criticism Same with trans and gay issues. Your 'religous' view is the whole core. As Lincoln said about slavery : They don't want you to admit it's legal they want you to say it is GOOD

[TJJ2000]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

'Congress' (Government) being the key subject in that Amendment.
As-is *all* the Bill of Rights.
They're LIMITS on governing not on "the people".
The US Constitution is literally "the peoples" Supreme Law OVER their government.

Which is why Pro-Life calling a SCOTUS ruling that LIMITED the 'Federal' government (and State-Gov till viability) ... Fed-Gov ?over-reach? is literally flipping the logic right on it's head.