Are American Living Standards In Decline?
David Leonhardt and John Early debate stagnation, inequality, and how people feel about the economy.
David Leonhardt of The New York Times and John Early of the Cato Institute debate the resolution, "The stagnation of living standards and soaring economic inequality have become the defining economic trends of American life."
For the affirmative is Leonhardt, a senior writer at The New York Times and the author of Ours Was the Shining Future: The Story of the American Dream, which The Atlantic, the Financial Times, and McKinsey & Co. named one of the best books of 2023. He writes The Morning, the Times's flagship newsletter. In 2012, he won a Pulitzer Prize for commentary.
Early is taking the negative. He is an adjunct scholar at the Cato Institute and president of the consultancy Vital Few LLC. He is a former assistant commissioner at the Bureau of Labor Statistics and former legislative assistant to Sen. George McGovern (D–S.D.). His more than 80 publications include The Myth of American Inequality: How Government Biases Policy Debate.
The debate is moderated by Soho Forum director Gene Epstein.
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A falling tide lowers all ships.
Harris-Walz 2024
Why on earth do these two think America got Donald Trump?!
Had there never been the decline in living standards, for so many Americans, there never would have been a President Trump. Our national spirit, our cultural and moral values, have been in decay for decades now.
The disconnect between DC and the country is glaringly obvious.
It's not just the decline in living standards but also the general animosity towards the US and the West in total that pushed people like Trump away from them.
Absolutely. The slide started with the 13th Amendment, and really picked up speed with the passage of the 19th.
Traditional American values shitcanned by the DC elite.
Are you retarded, or is today just special?
Only people who agree with you get the Carthage reference.
It's more than just living standards, whatever that means. It's politicians capturing government power in order to impose their own vision of what American living standards should be. It's just slogans to them - tools to use to try to influence The People (TM) and get them to allow the meddling, usually to the disadvantage of the people themselves one way or another.
^THIS^ +1000000
A government LIMITED by a US Constitution.
The USA is NOT just-a 'democracy'.
A lot to do with social issues, little to do with economics. In fact, the core Trumpers tend to be from White's brimming with social pathologies that make them their own worst enemies. That's why they blame immigrants who are more willing to work and less likely to commit crimes. Red states are more likely to be net recipients of money from the federal government than blue states.
I'll care what this retard loose thinks after he moves into an apartment complex in aurora co.
I think it depends too much on context and what "living standards" you're talking about.
Financially, economically, and apart from this stupid government COVID lockdown bullshit, I believe most people are better off, in general terms.
But government intrusion has gotten much worse. How do you put a price on all the censorship, Green Raw Deal, red tape, and general Fuck You attitude coming out of DC? This has gotten worse recently, but it didn't start with Biden or Obama. It goes back to FDR, Woodrow Wilson, and all the rest of the Progressives who think they know more than everybody else.
Trump helped a little, and will help a little more if he wins, but he's got his own economic illiteracy to fuck with people and the economy. Kamala would be worse, but the trend is unstoppable, because that's what government does -- expand, intrude, and punish people for wrong think.
I disagree that Trump helped even a little bit. All gains by government take place at the expense of everyone. All transactions have overhead costs, but the overhead costs of almost all government transactions are non-productive or counterproductive, costing more than any good they might do. As a general rule, the less government tries to do, the better off the public will be overall. Trump actively interfered in trade with China, dramatically increasing costs and causing shortages for the people, which indisputably impacted living standards adversely. Trump actively interfered with migration, adversely impacting the cost of labor and causing shortages across the board. Not buying it.
Yes, he's economically illiterate. But he did reduce regulations somewhat, or at least slow down their growth for a while. He did appoint good judges. He didn't start any new wars. He did less damage than Hillary would have.
Trump did only slow the growth of federal regulations. And he increased the national debt substantially. And he eliminated no federal agency of note. And he allowed unearned “stimulus” payments to be distributed, and then burdened Americans with the cost of a separate mailed letter bearing his signature heralding those payments. Most of the good things Trump did were by executive order, since he had no patience with the legislative process, and they were easily reversed. Title IX, for instance. All that is dwarfed by his incessant lying and delegitimating of the entire election process and degradation of opponents. Note that Trump issued very few vetoes. Arguably the last president from “old” America, Grover Cleveland had 584 vetoes in two terms. Trump had 10 in one term. The veto is a strong indicator of a willingness to control the size and scope of government.
They are not better off in general or specific terms.
You do not have to tell people who are recovering from a sickness "You feel better though you think you don't feel better" This is just nonsense
You remind me of Paul Krugman
NY Times’ Paul Krugman says ‘inflation is over’ — if you exclude food, gas and rent
By Ariel Zilber
Published Oct. 13, 2023,
At what point in human history did aspirational imaginary fantasy replace reality as the defining economic principle? No one serious has ever said that free market capitalism would or could guarantee everything that everyone ever dreamed of. Most economists and educated observers would only go so far as to claim that free market capitalism is much better than whatever is in second place. They would realize that every attempt to correct some imaginary failure – usually unfairness in outcomes, or exceptions like “external costs" - has backfired or had adverse unintended consequences far in excess of the alleged problem.
"Are American Living Standards In Decline?"
Of course not.
Just ask Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Obama, Hillary, Rob Reiner, Babs Streisand, George Soros, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Pelosi, George Clooney, Julia Roberts.
They'll tell you life here in the US is great right now.
US manufacturing is dying.
Debt is out of control.
Taxes just keep increasing
All because of [Na]tional So[zi]al[ism].
The ironic part is: The disparity between rich and poor are at an all-time high. EXACTLY as was predicted by the Right-Wing as would be the effect of "equality" BS.
Pursuit of "equality"?? My *ss.
It was a pursuit of 'armed-theft' to unjustly fill pots-of-gold.
'Guns' don't make sh*t no matter how much left "believes".
Two things only a normal human being would reply
1) When things are booming --- like when you are super-happy--- you don't say "wonder whether I'm happy" , "wonder whether things are really booming?
2) That this is supposedly being dsicussed by some, it MUST mean that the government stats convince nobody. Like when ___ says to me "Is there a tornado and disastrous flooding outside?" and I were to reply "don't know, let me check Google!!"
Three things my teachers would have insisted on in such a debate:
1) Do I get to say my life is in decline? Or do you get to say it?
2) Can I include immaterial considerations not countable by govt statistics? Like : I don't want my daughter to compete against boys calling themselves girls, no unisex bathrooms, no drag queens at school
3) Am I wrong to want not just no delcine but actual improvement. I can think of NOTHING in my life or my family's that improved under Biden. Literally nothing.
What a yawner. ...You go to the doctor in pain and they say 'It's all in your head" -- maybe so but it is PAIN nonetheless.
You both remind me of Paul Krugman.
Like asking your spouse: I heard that there is a tornado and flash floods on our very street...and the spouse says, Hmmm. let me check; I'll Google it -----------------How about opening the front door and looking !!!!
NY Times’ Paul Krugman says ‘inflation is over’ — if you exclude food, gas and rent
Some expert is going to say "you think you are worse off but you are actually better off"
NY Times’ Paul Krugman says ‘inflation is over’ — if you exclude food, gas and rent
By Ariel Zilber
Published Oct. 13, 2023
THE outrage against this Nobel Prize moron should have warned REASON not to rell people "It looks like it's raining outside but it isn't, that is premonitory semi-precipitation that often heralds sunshine sometime in the next 6 months"