Afghanistan

There Is No FDA-Approved Vaccine for Warmongering

We’ve got good news and bad news.

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The original lineup is back! Matt Welch is joined by Katherine Mangu-Ward, Peter Suderman, and Nick Gillespie to discuss the U.S. exit from Afghanistan and the FDA's full approval of Pfizer's vaccine. All this and more, on The Reason Roundtable.

Discussed in the show:

1:33: The U.S. military's withdrawal from Afghanistan.

23:30: The FDA fully approves the Pfizer vaccine. Does that mean employers can mandate the vaccine?

36:32: Weekly Listener Question: Why so glum, chums?

51:03: Weekly media recommendations.

This week's links:

Send your questions to roundtable@reason.com. Be sure to include your social media handle and the correct pronunciation of your name.

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Audio production by Ian Keyser
Assistant production by Regan Taylor
Music: "Angeline," by The Brothers Steve


NEXT: Scott Horton: U.S. Should Have Pulled Out Of Afghanistan Years Ago

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  1. 23:30: The FDA fully approves the Pfizer vaccine. Does that mean employers can mandate the vaccine?

    Get the vaccine, so you can… not… get sick from the unvaccinated… and still wear a mask because if you’re vaccinated you can still not only get sick, but transmit the virus to other vaccinated people. The Science is Settled.

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    3. https://twitter.com/TerryMcAuliffe/status/1429843066492526595?t=6GPTwPGYyeaPTUogRzee-w&s=19

      BREAKING: Following the full FDA approval of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine this morning, I’m calling on EVERY Virginia employer to require all eligible employees to be vaccinated. We need every eligible Virginian to get vaccinated to beat this virus. Together, we’ll get it done.

      1. *Also remember your booster shot!

      2. Sounds like a mandate.

        1. At least he isn’t governor yet. Still, governor blackface is likely to do the same and I struggle to believe Youngkin can win since the DC suburbs have taken control of the state

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  2. >>The FDA fully approves the Pfizer vaccine.

    lol. for what? field studies show it doesn’t work against covid.

    1. The gubmint spent a shitload of money on it, that’s why.

  3. Well we have the Afghanistan story, then one about covid, another about taxes, unions, parenting/cops, bad california…missing the requisite stripper/hooker story though.

    1. Each day seems the same as the last…

    2. ENB needs a day off too.

  4. So Jessie Jackson got covid even though he was vaccinated? You think that’s going to convince black people to get the shots?

    1. Jackson would be dead had it not been for the vaccine. I can’t think of a better advertisement for the vaccine.

      1. where did you buy your crystal ball, bootlicker?

        1. there’s a sarcastic-wit store right around the corner.

        2. You missed the [ s ] tags

      2. He’s still vulnerable to get shot in a drive buy. In the hospital by a guy in a gurney

      3. From a statistical point of view, that is likely true.

  5. No FDA-Approved Vaccine for Warmongering

    Remember when Trump caused WWIII with Iran? Think goodness that nightmare is over.

  6. KMW continues her streak of “I’m totallty an amarchist, but…” moments in the podcast.

  7. So the Pfizer vaccine got formal approval. As predicted, it changes nothing. All the people who whined “but it only has emergency authorization!” will now move on to the next bullshit reason to not get the vaccine. Maybe it will be the “experimental gene therapy” one, or the “microchips” one.

    They aren’t going to get the vaccine because (1) they arrogantly believe they know more than the experts about the vaccine, and/or (2) they really don’t give a shit about other people, and won’t lift a finger to help others unless it personally affects them. Such is the right-wing way.

    1. What about those of us that got the vaccine and now regret it?

      1. You regret having an extra layer of protection against the virus?

        1. LOL Chemjeff doesn’t know the data from anywhere but CNN.

        2. Dude, the vaccine doesn’t work. Someone who took the vaccine got sick, which means that nobody who took the vaccine is protected. Don’t you know anything about science?

          1. Looks like sarcasmic got his degree in virology at the University of CNN too.

            Have you guys noticed all our resident “I believe in Science” types, are the ones who never even took Biology, Chemistry and Physics in high school?
            White Mike fucked up the chemical composition of water, Tony didn’t understand that oil is processed before it reaches the pump or that solar power doesn’t work at night, and sarcasmic thinks vaccines prevent the spread of viruses, rather than reducing their effects.

        3. Ditto with masking and distancing. Those things weren’t 100% effective. That means they did fuck all.

          Good isn’t good enough.

          Perfect or nothing.

          1. Masking did fuck all.
            Washing your hands and using lots of hand sanitizer, is 1000X more effective than all the other advice that they gave.

          2. Fast or slow, the virus is going to go through the population. This has been obvious since the first antibody test results showed the virus was far more widespread than we thought and we had ALREADY been living with it for months without noticing.

            As long as hospitals are not overwhelmed, we want to be done with this as quickly as possible. And, just like last year, going into flu season you’d rather have 60% of your cases behind you than 40%.

          3. The 2 largest studies to date are the Dutch masking study (the largest RCT, titled ‘Effectiveness of Adding a Mask Recommendation to Other Public Health Measures to Prevent SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Danish Mask Wearers’) and the CDC’s own Georgia school study (the largest observational study, titled ‘Mask Use and Ventilation Improvements to Reduce COVID-19 Incidence in Elementary Schools — Georgia, November 16–December 11, 2020’). The Dutch study found no statistically significant difference between the masked and unmasked, though there was a small difference in favor of masking (~1%, within the bounds of statistical certainty. It doesn’t tell us anything, but it could indicate that there might be a very marginal effect which studies are not sensitive enough to detect). The Georgia school study showed no benefit from masks, and that plastic barriers might be reducing ventilation and thus could be making infection rates worse. They did find ventilation to be highly effective. They ran the study as ‘masking AND ventilation can reduce infection rates,’ lumping the independently ineffective masking in with the independently effective ventilation strategies in order to produce a masking recommendation.

            So no, masking appears to not have any benefits among the public for prevention of airborne viral infections. It’s not that they weren’t 100% effective – at this point they are effective somewhere between 0% and undetectable.

    2. Maybe it will be “I already had the virus” or “I’m not at risk and the jab doesn’t stop transmission”.

    3. That’s a strawman, argument from authority, and a combination strawman/no true Scotsman/appeal to emotion commonly called “the selfish fallacy.”

      They approved the vaccine 6 months into trials which were designed for 2 years, and which were unblinded shortly after beginning. They have not yet disclosed any of the data or methodology for the approval. The approval is the FDA record for speed, which I would applaud if there were some functioning liability system beyond the FDA but alas, there is not. They also set full approval without public discussion of the data, which is pretty damn unusual. They even listed the vaccines as 92% effective based on these studies, when real world studies have been rapidly downgrading that effectiveness due to waning efficacy over time and new variants. Right now Oxford is claiming 42% efficacy for Pfizer for all known variants. There is no dosing information in the approval, and there are few contraindications listed beyond known allergies to shot ingredients. But you don’t have to believe me – you can just go to BMJ and read all about the promising and disconcerting aspects to the vaccines.

      See, the ‘science’ is ongoing and far from settled (not even technically, as trials have not completed and side effects are still coming in – like heart and kidney inflammation…). This is not contentious. The work is ongoing. You’re not mad that people aren’t listening to the experts. You’re really just mad that they aren’t listening to the technocrats.

  8. Haven’t listened to it yet, is Suderman a bore in this one?

    1. I haven’t either, but yes.

      1. I can at least credit him for his consistency then.

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    Thanks, Man

  11. https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/time-has-come-enough-enough-fauci-dismisses-freedom-call-vaccine-mandates

    Fauci declared that “There was some poll that showed about 30% of people who are not anti-vax, they were just waiting to get what they felt was the real final stamp of approval, which we just got today with the Pfizer product.”

    He continued, “And those 30% are saying when that occurs, they will feel very, very comfortable about getting vaccinated. So right away, you’re talking about 30%. I hope they come through with what the survey said.”

    Fauci added “They’re going to give a lot of incentive and backing for a lot of institutions and organizations and places of employment to mandate, and that could be colleges, university, the military, organizations that employ a lot of people, some of the big corporations are going to say if you want to work for us in person, you’ve got to be there and get vaccinated.”

    Fauci then dismissed freedom as an after thought, noting “I know I respect people’s freedom, but when you’re talking about a public health crisis that we’ve been going through for well over a year and a half, the time has come. Enough is enough. We’ve just got to get people vaccinated.”

    1. We will see. Michael Brendan Dougherty had an article a month or so back about engaging with vaccine hesitant folks. He apparently took a lot of shit over it for basically not villainizing them, but that feels unsurprising.
      I think a side comment he made though, that some large portion of the unvaccinated aren’t any sort of hardliner and instead are people just don’t really care that much and don’t think much about it. The fact that things are upticking a little and that we, even at the lowest, had 500k a day getting vaccinated adds some credence to that.

      So, we will see. I have no idea, and admittedly I’m still more worried about the government reaction to this than I am to those making a choice to not vaccinate.

  12. American (and Canadian) governances typically maintain thinly veiled yet strong ties to big business and its interests. I believe that the potent access corporate lobbyists have to law-makers, governing officials and regulatory agencies is unethical and immorally health hazardous to the vulnerable product-consuming public.

    Regarding the FDA and questionable products it/they have allowed, I notably recall how the FDA’s then-commissioner Arthur Hull Hayes Jr. had decided (in 1981) to allow the mass consumption of the artificial sweetener Aspartame prior to his leaving the FDA for a lucrative job with the public relations firm owned by the Aspartame patent holder and producer, G.D. Searle Company. Hayes Jr. had overruled a health-expert panel that urged long-term study to ensure the chemical concoction — which was discovered accidently in 1965 while G.D. Searle Company chemist James Schlatter was testing an anti-ulcer drug — wouldn’t cause brain tumors in humans. (Feeding studies had resulted in brain lesions in test animals.)

    1. [Continued] … Assuming the news-media information I’ve consumed over many years is still accurate, our version of the FDA, Health Canada, allowed novelty-flavored vaping products to be fully marketed — even on corner stores’ candy counters — without independent, conclusive scientific proof that the product (as claimed by its tobacco-industry creator) would not seriously harm consumers but rather help nicotine addicts wean themselves off of the more carcinogenic cigarette means of nicotine deliverance. Yet, they (i.e. Health Canada) had sat on its own research results that indicated seatbelts would save lives and reduce injury; it said it wanted even more proof of safety through seatbelts before ordering big bus manufacturers to install them in every bus (presumably because of additional cost to bus makers). It applied a double standard, in both cases favoring big business interests.

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