The Soho Forum Debates

End the COVID-19 Lockdowns? Two Epidemiologists Debate

Harvard's Martin Kulldorff vs. Andrew Noymer of UC Irvine

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Should the COVID-19 lockdowns be replaced with a more targeted strategy?

On October 4, 2020, epidemiologists from Harvard, Oxford, and Stanford authored the Great Barrington Declaration, which advocates for ending the COVID-19 lockdowns and turning to a strategy of protecting elderly and vulnerable populations, while allowing everyone else to resume their normal lives.

Critics of the Declaration issued a counter-petition, called the "John Snow Memorandum," stating, "Any pandemic management strategy relying upon immunity from natural infections for COVID-19 is flawed. Uncontrolled transmission in younger people risks significant morbidity and mortality across the whole population."

In an online Soho Forum debate on December 13, Martin Kulldorff, a Harvard biostatistician and epidemiologist and coauthor of the Great Barrington Declaration, debated Andrew Noymer, an associate professor of population health and disease prevention at the University of California, Irvine, who signed the John Snow Memorandum.

It was an Oxford-style debate, and in this case, the contest ended in a tie: Both debaters convinced 5.56 percent of audience members to switch to their side over the course of the debate.

The Soho Forum, sponsored by Reason Foundation, is a monthly debate series typically held at the SubCulture Theater in Manhattan's East Village, but which has gone remote during the pandemic.

Narrated by Nick Gillespie; audio production by Regan Taylor

Photo: Steve Sanchez/Sipa USA/Newscom

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    1. Because love is love, and science is real.

      1. In this house, we believe…
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        No vote is illegal
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        Virtue signaling is everything!!!!!!

        1. And the house is craftsman style.
          Why is it always craftsman?

          1. Probably because William Morris was a commie too. Love those houses though.

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    2. these people are all liars. Have lied repeatedly and we are just supposed to take it. Fuck them and their stay at home check collecting asses.

    3. There is always a new curve.

    4. Georgia had a flat curve and no mask mandates or lockdowns.

      I havent worn a mask this entire time to do my shopping. Stores are packed for Christmas shopping.

  2. I’m wondering who is thinking “Gee, I wonder what NYC residents think about issues” for every fucking issue under the sun.

  3. No such debate should be confined to epidemiologists. The cost/benefit calculation goes beyond that.

    1. but…but…that’s not listening to the (pseudo)science!

  4. Masks and lockdowns didn’t help much apparently. And now they are saying it could go on even after they get enough people vaccinated. Millions of lives destroyed not by a virus but by government overreach.

    Big tech made a killing. So did anyone affiliated with the chicoms.

    1. Italy is getting a third lockdown.

      If the first two lockdowns failed, why a third?

  5. Why do I care what two epidemiologists think about my rights?

  6. Yes, because a science is all about an Oxford style debate were the audience gets to vote on who they like the most. Sigh.

    Debate is good, but debate is not science. Debate is about who is the best speaker. And in this style of debate, it’s about who gets higher change in votes based on ability to manipulate the audience.

    No offense to the SOHO Forum, but isn’t science. Having listened to many of their debates, it all comes down to which speaker managed to pack the audience.

    1. Yeah, I am getting tired of these debates. Nobody is listening. Each side just spits out their prepared talking points and does not consider the other side’s evidence. Everyone needs more intellectual humility and less ideology. Ideology is the death of reason and learning.

      1. Lol. Rich coming from captain lockdown over here.

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    2. Holy fucking shit you are retarded. Science is defined by skepticism and debate that is settled through competing experiments and proofs. What the fuck is wrong with you?

  7. Should the COVID-19 lockdowns be replaced with a more targeted strategy?

    Should Big Government continue to punch me in the face or should they work the body? How about ending the lockdowns and replacing them with leaving me the fuck alone? Why isn’t that an option?

    1. My freedom to assemble isn’t up for a talking debate.

  8. I’m not joking the debate should be about tarring and feathering the guy in the negative. I don’t even know what i’d say to him if I saw a white lab coat wearing epidemiologist openly talking about destroying my livelihood(which they have shuttering next month) it wouldn’t be a debate as my freedom isn’t up for debate.

    1. It’s like the “National Discussion on Racism”. You don’t get to participate. They will decide and tell you what you have to do.

      I’m not joking the debate should be about tarring and feathering the guy in the negative.
      I am up for a debate about what should be done to Mr Negative.

  9. “End the COVID-19 Lockdowns?”

    Absolutely not. As long as people from all over the planet are prevented from moving into the US, I’m perfectly OK with severely restricting the movement of people within the US.

    Implement Charles Koch’s immigration agenda, then maybe we can consider lifting the lockdowns.

    #OpenBorders
    #(EspeciallyDuringAPandemic)

    1. You do realize that it’s the other way around right now? Nobody wants to come here right now, because the U.S. has the worst coronavirus epidemic in the world and most countries are not letting Americans visit.

      1. You do realize that number if cases is a nonsense meteic and that CFR is the controlling factor which continues to decline right? You do know at the peak only 30 countries banned travel and most have rescinded right? You do understand that the chickenittle way we count covid deaths (because of the 20% profit incentive for hospitals) is not done in other countries that generally require a respiratory ailment to be counted as a covid death, right?

        You’ve done nothing but prove you dont understand actual science in all of these threads. You’ve essentially defended the narrative despite facts. Go out on a mask while supplicating yourself to the state.

        If you are under 70 and not morbidly obese, your risk of death is under that of driving to work everyday. We have seen a huge spike in non covid deaths due to patients not seeing their doctors. Suicides are up. Drug use is up. Cries for mental health help have shot through the roof. Kids lost a year of school, all because you can’t fucking think rationally and have joined on a mass delusion regarding actual risk.

        Go fuck yourself. I say that with all sincerity.

        1. “If you are under 70 and not morbidly obese, your risk of death is under that of driving to work…”

          If 2020 US deaths per capita turn out to be on par with other years, despite the WuFlu—and last I looked, we were on pace for this to be an unexceptional year—cutting driving miles to the bone is likely why. People are bad at driving.

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  10. We should lock down US citizens while keeping the border open to let immigrants run free, all else is fascism.

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