Election 2020

Jo Jorgensen: Don't Waste Your Vote on Trump or Biden

The Libertarian presidential nominee won't win but is upbeat about Gen Z and protests against lockdowns and police violence.

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"I used to tell people the Libertarian Party is the best of both sides. We take the economic freedoms from the right and the social freedoms from the left," says L.P. presidential nominee Jo Jorgensen. "I can't even say that anymore because Republicans aren't acting like Republicans and Democrats aren't acting like Democrats."

In a recent NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll, the 63-year-old Clemson psychology lecturer is pulling 5 percent, which might cover the final spread between Republican President Donald Trump and Democratic challenger Joe Biden.

Jorgensen, who is on the ballot in every state, is preaching a message of self-empowerment and autonomy that she says attracts mostly independents and people who are getting politicized for the first time. Her constituents are "people who believe that they should be able to make their own decisions. People who believe that they should have a right to decide their child's education, which health care they want and which health care they don't want, [how] to control their retirement dollars, and that they should be able to make a choice of whether or not they wear a mask."

In a wide-ranging conversation with Nick Gillespie, Jorgensen, who was the L.P.'s 1996 vice-presidential candidate, explains why she thinks Gen Z is very "live and let live," why the federal government should be half its current size, why she's optimistic about the future, and how Alan Dershowitz (!) would make a great Supreme Court justice.

Audio production by Ian Keyser.

NEXT: Our SCOTUS Wars Were a Long Time Coming

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  1. Fuck you for promoting marxism, jo.
    Go back to academia.

    1. EVERYONE other than Nadless Nardzi the NAZI is a Marxist, dammit!

      Just to fully inform readers here, especially NEW readers…

      Nadless Nardzi the NAZI is a Holocaust denier just like Rob Misek! (Another evil asshole who posts here). Two peas in a pod, Nadless Nardzi the NAZI and Rob Misek are!

      Does Nadless Nardzi the NAZI deny what the NAZIs did? As Misek does? Perhaps not, I do not know HOW far Nadless’s evil goes! It might strut in front of a mirror wearing NAZI gear for all I know!

      What I DO know is that Nadless Nardzi the NAZI ignores the roots of NAZI, and other, evil, mass-murdering authoritarianism! Nadless Nardzi the NAZI, like Hitler and the NAZIs and other evil authoritarians, start out by assuming that Nadless Nardzi the NAZI knows whose life is worthy, and whose is not! Then Nadless Nardzi the NAZI moves on to sterilization and killing! It all starts out by denying the value of other human lives! And if Nadless Nardzi the NAZI (and fellow NAZIs) can’t or won’t see and acknowledge that, Nadless Nardzi the NAZI is a deluded and EVIL Holocaust denier, same as Rob Misek!

      Nadless Nardzi the NAZI and and its fuckbuddy, Shitsy Shitler, also run around telling people to commit suicide! I have NEVER been THAT evil! Nor even THOUGHT about saying that to people! Nadless Nardzi the NAZI is FUBAR (Fucked Up Beyond Reapir). But if YOU, Dear Reader, are much like Nadless Nardzi the NAZI , then take stock of your SERIOUSLY FUCKED UP SOUL, Evil One Junior! Start by reading this: M. Scott Peck, the Hope for Healing Human Evil, https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0684848597/reasonmagazinea-20/

      1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

        1. Make me, empty-headed, self-righteous, evil punk-prick!

          1. Poof! You are now empty-headed, self-righteous, evil punk-prick.

            Should have wished for the winning lotto numbers.

            1. I quit working at shoprite and now I make $65-85 per/h. How? I’m working online! My work didn’t exactly make me happy so I decided to take a chance on something new… after 4 years it was so hard to quit my day job but now I couldn’t be happier.

              Here’s what I do…>> Click here

      2. Haha. Yeah, no. I have never seen nardz deny the holocaust.

        And there it is folks. If you don’t buy whole heartedly into lefty bullshit you are a nazi to retards like this.

        Progressives will once again wonder what could have possibly gone wrong, with zero self reflection. It’s hilarious.

        Don’t change a thing, sqrlsy. You’re doing so well! Haha.

        1. So, deciding whose human life is worthy of living, and whose is NOT, on an ideological, group basis, does NOT lead to Holocausts? You’re throwing in your lot with Nadless the Nardzi, Nasty NAZI, and Misek? Good to know, but not surprising!

    2. Libertarian Party Reminds Americans They Can Actually Choose Lesser Of Three Evils

      Many conservatives have reportedly taken the Libertarian Party’s message to heart, choosing to vote for the least of three evils: Trump.

    1. “And I’m Kanye West!”

    2. “If you see a snake, just kill it. Don’t appoint a Committee on Snakes.”

      1. “If you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.”

        If only we had listened.

        1. “If you find yourself in a ho, stop dicking.”

  2. Jorgensen, who is on the ballot in every state, is preaching a message of self-empowerment and autonomy

    So that 5% she’s pulling isn’t coming from Biden.

    1. She also won’t get the Karen vote with her mask off.

  3. why she thinks Gen Z is very “live and let live,”
    She will need a lot of cites for that one.

    1. Her fact checkers are still digging for an example on Twitter, the one media source that almost singularly defines their generation. Rest assured, they’ll find one soon.

      1. Hate to tell you this, but Gen Z gives exactly zero fucks about what happens on Twitter. Twitter is the sole domain of Millenials, plus a good scattering of GenX/Boomer influencers.

        1. I have hopes for Gen Z. I’ve written Millennials off…

        2. So you’re telling me that not only are Jo’s researchers looking for evidence that doesn’t exist but they’re looking in the wrong place too? Maybe I should’ve included a /sarc tag?

          I mean, technically, outside a small network of closely connected and closed-minded idiots, no one cares what happens on Twitter. There might be a bit of generational definition creep going on as well. The average Twitter user is in their early 20s which, again depending on definitions, puts them on the fence between Millenial and Gen Z.

        3. No, Gen Z is on TikTok, the less politically insane but even dumber alternative.

  4. But what if I don’t want the woke agenda at the highest levels of government? Am I just stuck with Trump in that case?

    1. And I’m Kanye West!

    2. We need rank-choice voting and to open up the field so that we don’t get stuck with two crummy candidates who want to bundle things like race relations, criminal justice reform, abortion, taxes, and foreign affairs into 1-2 monolithic ticket like a bunch of idiots. /politically homeless idiot

      1. Sorry, that’s the way the Constitution is set up, with geographical representation. Libertarians could get 25 percent of the vote nationwide (theoretically) and get 0 seats in Congress.

        1. I was joking. Phetasy or whatever Reason’s flavor of the month a couple weeks ago was spouting off about how terrible it was that we have to get political ideas like tax cuts, defense spending, and abortion tied together and blamed it on the two-party system. Which is stupid because here we have a third party candidate deliberately tying race relations to police reform *unnecessarily*. It was a thinly-veiled and utterly ill-considered anti-republic/representative democracy argument.

  5. I thought the LP “colors” included more yellow? The blue placards with white print and red accents look exceedingly… partisan. Like the hope is to fool some people into thinking you’re a member of a party you’re not.

    I’m not sayin they can’t be the color they are, it just seems like an odd choice for a non-conformist/3rd party candidate.

  6. It used to be that pretty much all libertarians were against Marxism. But somehow the LIbertarian Party found one in favor of it.

    1. I honestly don’t think Dr. Jorgensen is in favor of Marxism. I think she’s just bad at pandering, and doesn’t have the staff or experience to research likely messages ahead of time. She’s an amateur, IOW, and likely a very well-meaning one.

      It isn’t the time for Amateur Night. Not when one of the sides thinks NeoFeudalism is fine and dandy. Or thinks resurrecting the worst of German politics from the 20s and 30s is a great idea.

      1. I honestly don’t think Dr. Jorgensen is in favor of Marxism. I think she’s just bad at pandering, and doesn’t have the staff or experience to research likely messages ahead of time. She’s an amateur, IOW, and likely a very well-meaning one.

        100% agree. She came into the election with enough sense to know she was going to be portrayed as a racist, which she has been, and she not incorrectly surmised that she had a window in which to make a gesture before her image as a raging White Supremacist was forever locked in stone. I’m sure, though, that she never really looked into “Anti-Racism” or the BLM organization before she let that tweet fly, and there’s certainly no way to gracefully take it back at this point.

        1. I don’t think she’s marxist, but even without considering the roots of the “anti-racist” term, if she had used another, she still promoted and endorsed a marxist perspective.
          That is inexcusable in the context of our times.

        2. Ignorance or intentional shouldn’t matter in this case. She promoted it.

    2. Thanks to the left, calling somebody a racist or Nazi has lost its bite. Thanks to the right, the same goes for Marxist or communist.

      Jo Jorgensen is pretty obviously neither.

  7. Jo Jorgensen
    @Jorgensen4POTUS
    Last night, I attended the #BLM candlelight vigil to honor victims of police brutality.
    I did not speak, for they are not my stories to tell.
    Now is the time to listen, to remember and honor these victims.
    #SayTheirNames

    https://twitter.com/Jorgensen4POTUS/status/1268249512939794435

    1. “We need change, and I’m glad [the protests] are getting the attention,”‘

      “It is not enough to be passively not racist, we must be actively anti-racist.
      #BlackLivesMatter #VoteGold”

      https://twitter.com/Jorgensen4POTUS/status/1281638042315489284

      1. #BlackLivesMatter means standing in solidarity with a mourning black community as we fight together to end qualified immunity, police brutality, sentencing disparities, and the war on drugs, not support of any “organization” by that name.

        Wanting to end qualified immunity, police brutality, sentencing disparities, and the war on drugs intrinsically on the merits isn’t good enough. Bake the cake.

        1. So what is she supposed to say?

          “I’m in favor of ending qualified immunity, police brutality, sentencing disparities, and the war on drugs, but I won’t stand in solidarity with the one most well-known movement also in favor of these things, because I’d rather pander to law-and-order rightwingers who would never support these things in the first place”?

          Believe it or not, outside of the Reason comment section echo chamber, the phrase Black Lives Matter is not synonymous with “Marxism”. It is associated with concern on how minority groups are treated in this country. There is nothing wrong with standing in solidarity with this *movement* while at the same time distancing one’s self from the *organization* which actually does promote some rather noxious ideas. She did absolutely the right thing here. The people wanting her to denounce BLM in its entirety, not just the organization but the entire idea, movement and all, are the ones who aren’t going to vote for her in the first place.

          1. “Believe it or not, outside of the Reason comment section echo chamber, the phrase Black Lives Matter is not synonymous with “Marxism”. It is associated with concern on how minority groups are treated in this country.”

            Polling increasingly indicates otherwise.

            And if the “culture” loved Marxism, I’d hope the LP candidate wouldn’t go along. Jo would, however.

            1. If your litmus test is that you will not vote for anyone who does not condemn not just the BLM organization, but anyone who broadly stands in solidarity with the BLM movement, then you were never going to vote for anyone but Trump anyway.

              1. If you stand with fascists, that speaks a bit about you.

                1. Come to think of it, I don’t think I’ve seen you say critical things about Nardz.

              2. The underpinnings of BLM is critical race theory. By it’s very nature, critical race theory is not something that can be debated or discussed rationally. It ends in might makes right. Any movement or organization whose foundation is built on critical race theory should be condemned. It’s toxic and poisonous to everything and everyone it touches.

              3. If your litmus test is that you will not vote for anyone who does not condemn not just the BLM organization, but anyone who broadly stands in solidarity with the BLM movement,

                IDK about damikesc personally, but you’ve stolen a base from what I said. You can oppose QI, Police Brutality, and the WOD without supporting, or condemning, a race-based organization or movement quite easily. Evidence suggests that even a good chunk of the group that BLM supposedly represents acknowledge and understand that the BLM or BLM™ label means nothing if backed by empty promises and supported by the shifting sands of sociopolitics.

                You idiots think you’re winning faithful followers by chasing Tweets. You aren’t and, even if you are, they’re the most unprincipled and flippant of followers who will betray you and leave at the drop of the hat. Leaving you with nothing more than your compromised principles and even-further-below-5% poll rating.

          2. Has she issued an unequivocal condemnation of arson, looting and murder? Or is that not a story she believes herself qualified to tell?

          3. The “movement” is explicitly racist and fundamentally marxist

            1. I thought the term “racism” meant “a belief that one race is superior to other races”. Is that what you mean by the term “racism”?

              1. Racism is defining and judging people according to their race

                1. People and/or situations

                  1. Considering people (and/or situations) as individuals is surprisingly liberating.

                    The “radical individualist” wouldn’t know anything about that, of course.

          4. Yes. There are ignorant people like yourself. But it isnt in the reaaon comment section dummy. They scrubbed their website for a fucking reason.

          5. “……, groups are treated…….”

            Yup, you are one radical mother fucking individualist, Jeff.

            Haha.

      2. “…we must…”

        I don’t think you understand how libertarian philosophy works, Jo.

    2. The schadenfreudiest part about it is that demilitarizing the police and decriminalizing trivial activities used to be a solidly libertarian stance even among “libertarian-leaning republicans”. Now, she could hardly be more toxic to the party ethos if she started openly apologizing on behalf of libertarians everywhere for killing black people.

    3. “I did not speak, for they are not my stories to tell.
      Now is the time to listen, to remember and honor…”

      How clever and poetic and solemn she felt writing those lines, but they come off as pretentious cheese. Bless her heart.

    4. “I did not speak, for they are not my stories to tell”? Holy shit; if Jo was a man, I’d ask, “ Where did you lose your balls?” You only speak if you’re given permission by your “betters”? THIS is the standard-bearer who’s going to present our banned in the fray? We’re exceedingly boned.

  8. Nope voting LP is a waste of time and throwing away my vote. I want to vote against democrats, not help them get elected.

    1. a waste of time, yes.
      throwing away your vote, no.
      your vote won’t flip your state or flip the election either way.

      1. there are some swing states, such as Pennsylvania, where the margins are likely to be razor thin. Conclude from that what you will. If I lived in Maryland, I wouldn’t even bother voting, but since I am in PA, I might have enough reason to vote for trump this time.

        1. Trump has proved more libertarian than Biden, which is why I’ll be voting for him. I’m also in PA. If I wasn’t in a swing state, probably would vote for Jorgensen.

          A thousand ads for/against Trump and Biden run on Pittsburgh television stations daily. Biden reads everything from teleprompter.

          Most voters in Pittsburgh are likely to vote Biden, but beyond five miles outside the city in every direction is Trump country.

  9. And I’m Kanye West!

    1. The Shire vote isn’t enough to get you elected.

  10. Can I still vote Republican or Democrat if that is the party I prefer?

  11. Gillespie is right. The problems that this country faces are too important to be left to the two tribal teams full of idiots that have brought us to this point in the first place.

    And the idiots accusing JoJo of “being a Marxist” are for the most part people who were never going to vote for her anyway and are only here to try to gaslight and suppress the libertarian vote in order to drive votes for Trump. That’s all. It is like the people complaining that the NFL isn’t woke enough – they aren’t fans of football anyway regardless of how woke it is or not.

    1. “and suppress the libertarian vote in order to drive votes for Trump.”

      Fuck man make sense.

    2. You can revel in your ignorance on your own baby jeffrey. Stop promoting ignorance as a moral ethos.

  12. Nobody forced her to jump on the identity politics train. No L vote from me this time.

    1. This is just like the “a leppo” moment. Why does one comment disqualify the entirety of the campaign? That one tweet is enough to cause you to run into the arms of either of the two authoritarian dickheads in Team Red and Team Blue?

      “Sure, she’s completely right about school choice, health care, education, ending the war on drugs, ending foreign wars, entitlement spending, but I WAS SO TRIGGERED BY THAT ONE TWEET I’M RUNNING TO DADDY TRUMP TO SAVE ME”

      1. Tribalism has won Jeff. You are either for Trump or against Trump. You cannot be neutral, you cannot hold differing opinions simultaneously like a rational person.

        1. You can oppose totalitarian marxism or you can go along with it.
          There is no third option, because marxism is TOTALITARIAN… and it will not stop itself or leave you alone.

          1. To be sympathetic to the claim that minority groups have not always been treated fairly in this country is “going along with totalitarian Marxism”. Got it.

            1. No, going along with totalitarian Marxism is going along with totalitarian Marxism.

            2. God youre ignorant. No matter how much evidence you’re given… no matter how many videos of the founders… no matter how much the ties to CRT and post modernism/marxism is given…

              Youre just fucking ignorant. And it is apparent by choice because a slogan sounds nice.

      2. >>Why does one comment disqualify the entirety of the campaign?

        she’s the campaign.

        1. Trump told a crowd of nearly all white supporters that they have ‘good genes’

          https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-told-crowd-of-white-supporters-they-have-good-genes-2020-9

          And then of course there’s Biden:

          “Well I tell you what, if you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black.”

          How are these comments not totally disqualifying for Trump and Biden?

          1. nearly all white supporters

            This new science of demographics is truly arcane and mysterious, no?

            1. “Radical individualist(s) are really good at it tho! Haha.

          2. >>You have good genes in Minnesota,” Trump said.

            Vikings. Historically good genes. Know your blue pie piece.

            I don’t care about Biden. Jo literally supported BLM dude it’s a DQ.

            1. So Pig Swillinger then clearly believes that black lives do NOT matter! Take it at face value, evil is as evil does, and evil is as evil says!

              1. one positive means one negative check.

              2. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

            2. They come from the land of the ice and snow, where the something something and the hot springs flow.

              1. Awesome tunage!

                Immigrant Song
                Led Zeppelin
                Ah-ah, ah!
                Ah-ah, ah!
                We come from the land of the ice and snow
                From the midnight sun, where the hot springs flow
                The hammer of the gods
                W’ell drive our ships to new lands
                To fight the horde, and sing and cry
                Valhalla, I am coming!
                On we sweep with threshing oar
                Our only goal will be the western shore
                Ah-ah, ah!
                Ah-ah, ah!
                We come from the land of the ice and snow
                From the midnight sun where the hot springs flow
                How soft your fields so green
                Can whisper tales of gore
                Of how we calmed the tides of war
                We are your overlords
                On we sweep with threshing oar
                Our only goal will be the western shore
                So now you’d better stop and rebuild all your ruins
                For peace and trust can win the day despite of all your losing
                Ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh, ooh-ooh…

                1. Needs a bit of an update for Minnesotans

                  We come from the land of the snow and ice
                  Where people are cold but they sure are nice

              2. >>something something

                midnight sun.

          3. “You have good genes. You know that, right? You have good genes. A lot of it is about the genes, isn’t it, don’t you believe? The racehorse theory. You think we’re so different? You have good genes in Minnesota,”

            Oh shit, you got him Chemjeff. He flattered Minnesotans.
            That’s almost as bigoted as calling poor white people “inbred hicks”, or “bitter clingers”, or “deplorables”.

            Wow, parade that everywhere as proof of Trump’s Nordic Aryan preferences before the election, please.

            1. The racist part is jeff inferring only white people live in Minnesota.

      3. “This is just like the “a leppo” moment. Why does one comment disqualify the entirety of the campaign? That one tweet is enough to cause you to run into the arms of either of the two authoritarian dickheads in Team Red and Team Blue?”

        If she’s not that different than Biden on major issues, why not just vote for Biden?

        1. Please explain why you believe that JoJo is “not that different than Biden on major issues”.

          1. She’s pro-BLM, a loathesome Marxist organization that has one of the strongest stenches of fascism of any organization out there.

            1. She clearly distinguished her support for the movement and NOT for the specific organization.

              And what about all of the other major issues? You know, like education, health care, taxes, spending, entitlements, foreign wars, etc.? On those, is she “not that different than Biden”?

              1. “She clearly distinguished her support for the movement and NOT for the specific organization.”

                Not that I have seen.

                “And what about all of the other major issues? You know, like education, health care, taxes, spending, entitlements, foreign wars, etc.? On those, is she “not that different than Biden”?”

                Side with a Marxist group…don’t expect anybody to take any claims you make seriously.

                1. https://twitter.com/jorgensen4potus/status/1281717713291956224

                  Jo Jorgensen
                  @Jorgensen4POTUS
                  #BlackLivesMatter means standing in solidarity with a mourning black community as we fight together to end qualified immunity, police brutality, sentencing disparities, and the war on drugs, not support of any “organization” by that name.

                  Do you really think everyone who is retweeting #BlackLivesMatter hashtags are Marxists, or sympathetic to Marxism?

                  1. If you profess support for something you don’t understand, then you’re an idiot.

                    So, best case, she is an idiot.

                    1. This. She gave in for a pretty slogan instead of doing basic homework. Blm doesn’t want equality. They want submission.

                2. Side with a Marxist group…don’t expect anybody to take any claims you make seriously.

                  So: she tweets support for a *movement*, not any specific organization, that is concerned with ending racist treatment of minority groups, and from that you leap all the way to MARXISM!!!! NOTHING ELSE MATTERS!!!!!

                  This is a ridiculous take even for you, and it just demonstrates that you weren’t going to vote for her ANYWAY and her stupid tweet is just a pretext for doing so.

                3. Do you even know what Marxism is?

                  1. Do you? Because you seem pretty fucking ignorant.

      4. This isn’t remotely an Aleppo moment. Not knowing a city in Syria is far removed from a willing endorsement of SJW politics.

        1. It is one tweet in the context of an entire campaign.

          How is that one tweet so triggering to you that it causes you to ignore every single other fucking thing?

          1. “OJ Simpson was a great running back. Why do you let one night ruin his legacy?”

            1. So that one tweet so triggered you, you now elevate it up as equivalent to an act of murder. Got it.

              1. You’re terrible for her PR. Just stop.

              2. Yup, EXACTLY what I’m doing. Same thing. Not noting how idiotic your comment was by making — and it was hard to do, mind you — a MORE idiotic comment.

            2. Good point. What does OJ killing people and then getting away with it have to do with his football career?

              1. Are you saying BLMantifa is disconnected from politics and government?

              2. his 1978 card in a Niners jersey still looks weird.

            3. I don’t. At least not his football or acting legacy. His not murdering people legacy may be a bit iffy…

      5. She’s not a Marxist, she’s just spineless. She bent the knee to critcal race theory ideologues.

    2. So the LP candidate has to be pure as the driven snow.
      But the R candidate can have any number of faults.
      Got it.

      1. Vote for whoever you want.
        You don’t think it matters anyway.
        But you’re hitching libertarianism the philosophy to a horse that promotes a perspective of people as units of collective classes rather than individuals.

      2. Not sure why my thinking the LP candidate is EITHER a moron or supporter of a Marxist groups seems to triggering to you.

      3. third parties cannot win as the system is currently set up. And if you’re going to be a protest vote option, then yes, you will be held to a drastically higher standard. Why is that so hard to understand?

  13. If not voting is a perfectly valid strategy, then voting for Jo is also a perfectly valid strategy. I’ll be voting for Prop 207 in AZ and while I’m there, I’ll give Jo my vote.

    1. Voting for the candidate you prefer (and against dumb ballot initiatives) is the only strategy that makes voting worthwhile.

      If you support the LP candidate and vote for her, your preference will be recorded.
      If you prefer the LP candidate but vote for Trump, you’ll be counted with the Trump supporters, and you won’t have changed the outcome of the election either way.

      1. If you* stay home watching Debbie Does Dallas, you won’t change the outcome either.

        *Not “you” specifically, more of a generic “you.”

        1. “The” dildo or “a” dildo but not “your” dildo.

    2. Pot should be decriminalized, not legalized. My state has gone about it completely the wrong way and has replaced one thuggish group with another (the state). Can’t grow your own. Why? State is greedy. Taxes are about 50%. It sets up a state system, which is basically socialist. Fuck that. Decriminalize and reject state’s attempts to control the means of production as Prop 207 does.

      For the record, I was in AZ this winter before the COVID shit went down. Flew in with joints from my state. Smoked the shit out of them in AZ without fear.

      Decriminalize but do not legalize!

      1. I’d prefer full legalization without taxes. Decriminalization is not enough. I want to get pot from reputable stores, not some dude off the street. I’d like it to be lab tested.

        1. “I’d prefer full legalization without taxes”

          What does that have to do with the real world?

        2. And I’d like to grow my own for quality control and a steady supply of a strain I like and that works for my medical condition. I’ve bought moldy weed from a legal shop that was supposedly tested. There’s no reason why you can’t have retail weed and testing with decriminalization. All legalization does is swap out shitty government for a shitty dealer. Even my dealer back in the day would let me return bad product, which was a rarity.

    3. You’ve earned sqrlsy’s endorsement.

  14. She filled out a candidate survey from a right-wing outfit.

    https://bit.ly/2EqkakW

    She’s what used to be called “prochoice,” now “pro-reproductive rights,” (i. e., don’t-dare-call-me-pro-abortion-I-just want-it-legal), but at least she says she’s against taxpayer funding for abortion.

    Here’s a puzzler

    “Government should not discriminate against individuals, organizations, or business owners who affirm marriage as between one man and one woman.

    “Agree…

    “I support adding sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression as protected classes in non-discrimination laws.

    “Agree”

    OK, square *that* circle!

    1. She wants to have her cake, but not have to bake it?

      1. Pretty much this! Perhaps she supports using PERSUASION (words not violence) to ENCOURAGE (not force) bakers to bake gay wedding cakes? As long as said bakers are willing to listen? Coercive nagging isn’t all that good a thing, either, you see…

        “Gentleness” is a lost art these days… I hang my head in shame and admit it is lost to me as well, on these pages, but I grow frustrated after enduring an ENDLESS parade of self-righteous assholes! Who would, among other things, pay for THEIR self-righteous punishment boners, with MY freedom of speech, and my other freedoms as well!

        1. “Pretty much this! Perhaps she supports using PERSUASION (words not violence) to ENCOURAGE (not force) bakers to bake gay wedding cakes? As long as said bakers are willing to listen? Coercive nagging isn’t all that good a thing, either, you see…”

          Hmm, from the LP’s usual loser candidate:
          ““I support adding sexual orientation, gender identity and gender expression as protected classes in non-discrimination laws.

          “Agree””

          ….um, that’s supporting using the government to force people to do what she wants.

          1. Sometimes folks say things that are WIDE open to being misconstrued! They just say stupid things w/o really thinking it through.

            Speaking of which… Are you STILL saying people should be FORCED to buy Reason magazines, to overcome boycotts caused by YOUR preferred fascist policies?

            1. You’d think these spambots would get bored by now.

              1. You’d think that sensible humans could admit error. In most cases (ESPECIALLY with regards to Damikesc!) you’d be wrong! Damikesc is NEVER wrong, even when it is clearly wrong (for all to see) as wrong can be!

  15. Why say she “won’t win” right below the headline? Most of the votes haven’t been cast yet. Writers said Trump “won’t win” in the 2016 primaries, yet he did.

    You can fairly say the odds are long, but she can win if people vote for her. Given the other 2 choices, why wouldn’t they?

    1. Agree. It should have said something like “Yes Way, Ted has a better chance of having a threesome with Japanese twins than Jo has of winning the presidency.”

  16. All votes are wasted. If voting changed anything, it would be illegal.

    1. Whoa, that’s deep! I do have to agree with Yes Way, Ted on this one!

      1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

        1. A broken record player is more original and witty than you are, mamma!

          1. Fuck off, Sqrlsy.

  17. I am supporting Jo Jorgensen for president.

    Libertarians should never allow ourselves to be defined by liberals or conservatives. We are not democrats nor republicans. If we are the 5% then so be it. I have no problem standing on that hill.

    They both hate us and you know why. Because libertarians stand on principle and integrity. No apology needed.

    1. Kudos for Echospinner! We need more Echospinners, and fewer Rob Miseks, and fewer Nadless the Nardzistic NAZIs! On these pages, as well as in life at large!

      (To be clear, I am in favor of voluntary conversion, not force or, Government Almighty forbid, killing!)

    2. >>I have no problem standing on that hill.

      ‘course not

      >>They both hate us …

      is why I’ve enjoyed T at the helm so far.

    3. OK, but what explains Jorgensen’s BLM tweets and cake-baking equivocations?

    4. Don’t sell yourselves short, the Republicans love you. The 99% of you who do nothing but support the Republican party, that is.

  18. Here’s some more government freedom for you guys to endorse 100%:

    https://theweek.com/speedreads/939191/trump-campaign-reportedly-discussing-contingency-plans-bypass-election-results

    The report delves into possible scenarios if Trump apparently loses the 2020 presidential election but doesn’t concede, noting that although we’re used to electors being selected based on the popular vote, “nothing in the Constitution says it has to be that way.” Citing Republican Party sources, The Atlantic says that Trump’s campaign is “discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority.”

    The campaign would reportedly assert that this step was necessary due to claims of supposed voter fraud, which experts have noted is extraordinarily rare, ahead of the “safe harbor” deadline to appoint 538 electors on Dec. 8.

    “Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly,” The Atlantic reports. “The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires.”

    1. Welcome to the Trumptatorshit, citizen! We will ALL do as Dear Leader instructs us to do, now! All Hail Der TrumpfenFuhrer!

      1. What’s funny is that the same plutocrats who fund this magazine have actually propped up dictatorships in other countries for the sake of their business interests, and what’s happening in the US resembles those transitions in many disturbing details, including have those exact same corporate interests behind it.

        They oppose democracy. The freedom the Kochs (RIP) grabbed for themselves is not the same freedom they want regular people to have. But their magazines may have confused some of the regular people on that point.

        1. I thought you weren’t allowed to criticize Charles anymore since he partnered with your boss on the Quincy Institute.

          1. The Kochs thought putting their names on a bunch of things was a fun way to get lower tax liability.

    2. “Citing Republican Party sources, The Atlantic”

      Wow. More anonymous sources for the Atlantic. They’ve had such a sterling track record so far.

      1. If you actually read the article, a Pennsylvania GOP chair goes on record saying yeah, they’ve actually discussed it.

        1. You’re so full of shit. This wasn’t Trump’s campaign or the National party discussing plans to bypass voters, but a couple of people in Pennsylvania discussing the constitutionality of appointing their party’s electors.

          This is what the “Pennsylvania GOP chair” actually says, folks:
          In Pennsylvania, three Republican leaders told me they had already discussed the direct appointment of electors among themselves, and one said he had discussed it with Trump’s national campaign.
          “I’ve mentioned it to them, and I hope they’re thinking about it too,” Lawrence Tabas, the Pennsylvania Republican Party’s chairman, told me. “I just don’t think this is the right time for me to be discussing those strategies and approaches, but [direct appointment of electors] is one of the options. It is one of the available legal options set forth in the Constitution.” He added that everyone’s preference is to get a swift and accurate count. “If the process, though, is flawed, and has significant flaws, our public may lose faith and confidence” in the election’s integrity.”

          And no wonder you didn’t link directly to the article. It’s just a big pile of innuendo and assumption and implication used to assert opportunistic outrage.

          Everyone should read this junk to see what the Atlantic has fallen to:
          https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/11/what-if-trump-refuses-concede/616424/

          Don’t you ever get tired of being such a cheap demagogue, Tony?

          1. I see you’re wagering on a calm election in which someone peacefully concedes. I hope you’re right!

            1. No, I’m calling you and your article deliberate liars and demagogues.

              Anyway, your side didn’t concede last time. You shot up GOP baseball games, burned cities, staged coups, used FBI collusion/perjury traps on his political allies and leaked classified information.
              And, if you lose again, I’m sure you all will do even worse.

    3. The more the establishment left talks about “What if Trump loses and does not leave the job,” the more you know Coup V2.0 is a go.
      Step 1: Get mail-in voting approved to guarantee a non-credible election result.
      Step 2: Claim Trump’s electoral victory is not legitimate.
      Step 3: Use media brainwashing to make it “true” that Trump really lost but has become a dictator, staying in power.
      Step 4: Impeach or otherwise remove Trump by non-Constitutional means. Frame it as saving the nation.

  19. I won’t be voting for Trump or Biden, but in my state it makes no difference. You can put a dead dog on the ballot, if it has a (D) next to its name it will win. Thanks Portland…

  20. If the best argument that the peanuts around here can give for not voting for JoJo is her stupid antiracism tweet, then that settles it – I’m voting for JoJo.

    Her platform is unquestionably right from a libertarian perspective on all of the major issues.

    And if you think that she is some closet Marxist, or running cover for Marxists, or has any sympathy for Marxism whatsoever, based on that one tweet, then you are either completely stupid, or trying to gaslight and demoralize libertarians into staying home and therefore not potentially pull votes away from Trump. Knowing how many Trump-fluffers there are around here, it’s probably the latter.

    1. Her platform is fine. Commenters here give Trump the benefit of the doubt for all kinds of crazy tweets, so I’ll give Jorgensen the benefit of the doubt. Libertarians should want black lives (and all lives) to matter, and should want Americans of all races to be treated fairly and reasonably by the police, and bad cops to be taken off the streets, regardless of what the police unions say or what the Democratic city councils have done for decades. I think that’s what she meant to say. So I’m voting for her too.

  21. In a press conference just now Trump did not agree to pledge to a peaceful transition of power after the election. He said something incoherent that I think meant “We have to throw out all mail-in ballots before I can say.”

    “Give me liberty or give me an orange fat man, whatever, I don’t care.”
    –Patrick Henry

    1. And if Trump refuses to accept the results of the election, whatever shall we do?

      1. Hopefully drag him out of the White House crying like a baby. But the problem all his lawyers planning to disrupt the count in myriad ways, or get electors replaced by friendly state legislatures.

        The Bush campaign paid rioters to disrupt the Florida recount, and what Trump is not is less shady than Bush.

        1. drag him out of the White House crying like a baby

          ^ This is exactly what will happen.

      2. “And if Trump refuses to accept the results of the election”

        You mean like how the Democrats and the left refused for the last four years?
        The question is moot because Trump will win again.

        1. It makes me cringe when someone worships a politician to this extent. Stop making me cringe.

          1. It makes me cringe how when you’re caught wallowing in hypocrisy, you try to deflect by calling names.

  22. JoJo sounds less goofy than the others so I’m voting LP.

    1. Mongo just pawn in life, but Mongo a SMART pawn!

      1. I prefer the clip from a 90s rom-com or comedy flick (I’ve never seen it) with a wet-shirt Christina Applegate (?) standing at a doorway saying ‘Candy for Mongo’ or some shit like that.
        Friends always refer to it around me.

  23. One of the contested-election scenarios spelled out in the Atlantic piece ends with Mike Pence being given the choice between Joe Biden as president or Nancy Pelosi as president. That’s a fun one.

    1. Tony so loves his fan fic.

    2. Did they follow that up with an article on whether the iceberg that the Titanic struck could take out a star destroyer?

    3. sorry, the choices for Pence will be Trump, Biden, or Jorgensen.

    4. Is that after the House votes by state, with each state getting one vote? Better check the math.

  24. http://twitter.com/michellemalkin/status/1308892235593912322?s=19

    “Justice for Breonna” means…beating the crap out of every outdoor patio table in Lousiville.

    1. How can anyone go out and eat dinner when a grand jury reached a decision the mostly peaceful protesters disagree with? Dining on a patio is violence, so the mob, I mean, mostly peaceful assembly, is just responding in kind.

  25. http://twitter.com/inteldotwav/status/1308852222302793733?s=19

    UHAUL RENTED OUT BY HOLLY ZOLLER, FOUNDER OF THE BAIL PROJECT IN LOUISVILLE KENTUCKY

  26. http://twitter.com/ByJoshFiallo/status/1308927845687799812?s=19

    Protestors are now going restaurant by restaurant to chant at diners on Beach Dr. in St. Pete. A lot of diners yelled back, starting multiple confrontations.

    This one was the most significant. Protestors took over a couple’s table. Not sure why they were targeted specifically.

    1. Which one’s Tony?

    2. When did those East Germans learn English?

  27. http://twitter.com/FordFischer/status/1308933078254006273?s=19

    The activists are looking at individual media credentials and social media accounts and giving out glow bracelets to ones they approve of.

    They forbid livestreaming. At least for the time being, I will refrain from streaming for my safety and add updates here.

    1. Don’t orgasm too hard dreaming of violence in the streets and how much it will help Trump’s election prospects.

      1. Your friends have already shot a couple people

        1. http://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1308937485179908102?s=19

          Louisville: 2 officers have been shot tonight and have been transported to the hospital

          1. There is at least one person hoping for dead cops tonight.

            1. Yes, but you aren’t condemning your side for doing so.

      2. Every old woman you assault creates ten more Trump voters, Tony.

        1. Per the libertarian covid plan for individual liberty, all the old women are locked away against their will.

          1. Thankfully, there are enough Marxists in the world to prevent libertarians from locking people up.

          2. Per Gavin Newsom’s plan, everyone is locked away against their will.

  28. http://twitter.com/BGOnTheScene/status/1308849298122170379?s=19

    “No one is to cross in front of the Black women” Protesters have grouped the front lines by race and gender, with a line of Black women, followed by a line of Black men, followed by everyone else #Louisville #BLM #BlackLivesMatter

    1. Do you get to choose which line you want to be in?

  29. Twitter apparently purging today too.
    Dozens of different people tweeting about losing hundreds of followers

  30. http://twitter.com/Julio_Rosas11/status/1308943678229098496?s=19

    Police and National Guard are out protecting the hospital where the two officers who were shot are being treated.

    1. “It blows my mind that “protect a hospital from rioters” is something that needs to happen in a developed nation.”

      1. Civilization ends when people stop acting civilized.

  31. http://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1308853523711393793?s=19

    Search for “Amerikkka.” It’s trending. Plenty of low IQ tweets.

  32. http://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1308866699014426626?s=19

    LOUISVILLE: a business owner is surrounded by angry protesters as he attempts to protect his store

    Reporter @BGOnTheScene said they proceeded to break the windows

    Not sure what this how to do with police brutality. Very troubling

    1. Something to do with the parable of the broken windows I think. The mostly peaceful protestors could claim it was an invisible hand that broke them. If they are from Argentina, the hand of God also works.

  33. http://twitter.com/JDRucker/status/1308875437997789184?s=19

    According to Twitter, a conservative presidential warning against violence is considered to be… violence.

    But leftists calling to “Burn Louisville” are acceptable and even encouraged on Twitter.

    Got it.

  34. http://twitter.com/TheBabylonBee/status/1308775765438324738?s=19

    Oops! Public School Teacher Forgets To Remove Antifa Mask Before Logging On For Class

  35. http://twitter.com/wesyang/status/1308836716564942849?s=19

    Here’s Harvard University’s former President rting the Babylon Bee in earnest.

  36. They are wearing masks, so I immediately question if these people are even libertarians.

    1. Why? Libertarians can be considerate of other peoples’ fears, if they are irrational.

  37. I Make Money At H0me.Let’s start work offered by Google!!Yes,this is definitely the most financially Abe rewarding Job I’ve had . Last Monday I bought a great Lotus Elan after I been earning $9534 this-last/5 weeks and-a little over, $10k last month . . I started this four months/ago and immediately started to bring home minimum $97 per/hrHeres what I doVisit here to earn thousands of dollars

  38. All the cries of Marxism aside, the Libertarian Party is a dead end in this country, just as all other 3rd options are. The structure of our government just does not allow for more than two parties with substantial support. Ross Perot got, what, 19% of the popular vote in 1992? How many Electoral votes did that get him? A big fat zero. How many governors did his Reform Party elect before fading into history? One – Jesse Ventura. How many members of Congress? State legislatures?

    The only way a minor party is going to make a dent is if they have some already well-known and/or self-funded billionaire like Perot or Trump or Bloomberg or Arnold Schwarzenegger running that manages to get enough momentum to pass 10%. Otherwise, no one will take them seriously, they won’t get into televised debates, and they can only play spoiler.

    Too many people in this country simply choose (D) or (R) for anything else to break through. Either the Democrats or Republicans need to completely implode and split before there is any hope otherwise.

  39. If you vote in a state that is sure to go democrat then it might make sense to vote for a third party you want to better thrive, but otherwise you better vote for Trump because if Biden-Harris wins there will be massive 3rd world migration here (legal & otherwise), including Islamic, that the democrats plan to give to vote to and make democrat the permanent party.

  40. She looks like the freak from the movie The Funhouse

  41. A federal government half it’s current size (in dollars)?
    You mean like 2 years ago?

  42. She won’t draw 1/2 the votes of Gary Johnson whom I voted for twice.
    Trump judicial nominees are as Libertarian as we can get and will leave a legacy long after his policies with which we don’t agree.

  43. I had the opportunity to attend Jo Jorgensen’s Madison rally yesterday, leaving underwhelmed. The crowd was small and I would estimate under 200. The demographics skewed middle age white male (Trump’s prime audience). Jo’s speech had good points and not good points, but Jo had no fire in the belly in her delivery. The most interesting part was questions at the end. As you expect most questions were from people with a particular issue, so Common Core, Federal Reserve, BLM, Alan Dershowitz, international sale of guns. Jo’s response did not so much seem like answering as pandering to the questioner.
    The 2020 election will be a referendum on Donald Trump and third parties are likely to less relevant than they were in past years. I saw little in Jo Jorgensen to change this situation and little reason to see her as analternative.

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