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False Rape Allegations Against Brett Kavanaugh Prove That Due Process Matters

Judy Munri-Leighton admitted to lying, and Julie Swetnick's story collapsed.

KavanaughJonathan Ernst/Reuters/NewscomIt's now incontrovertible that Supreme Court Justice Brett Kavanaugh was the victim of at least one—and probably two—false allegations of sexual assault.

The latest evidence comes from Judiciary Committee Chairman Sen. Chuck Grassley (R–Iowa), who has asked the Justice Department to investigate Judy Munri-Leighton, a left-leaning activist from Kentucky, for allegedly making false statements. According to Grassley, Munri-Leighton initially claimed in an email to the committee that Kavanaugh had raped her, and he was questioned on this point during the September 26 hearing regarding allegations made by Christine Blasey Ford and others.

Subsequently, Munri-Leighton recanted her charge and admitted she had never met Kavanaugh. "I was angry, and I sent it out," she said.

Munri-Leighton's confession means this accusation should be definitively labeled false.

Another accusation, made by Julie Swetnick and attorney Michael Avenatti, should be regarded as highly suspect, at the very least, given that the accuser has contradicted her story. (Both Swetnick and Avenatti were referred for investigation as well.) Avenatti supplied NBC News with a witness who supposedly could corroborate Swetnick's account; instead, the woman confessed she felt Avenatti had "twisted" her words. NBC felt cheated; Chuck Todd accused Avenatti of purposefully misleading reporters.

We can't say for certain whether Ford's accusation against Kavanaugh was true, false, or somewhere in-between. But it's simply a fact that several subsequent allegations of sexual abuse have, to varying degrees, collapsed.

This has not deterred some activist groups. "We still believe Julie Swetnick," tweeted Planned Parenthood and NARAL.

The ludicrousness of the progressive slogan that all self-described victims should be believed is on full display. It does survivors of sexual assault no good to take charlatans seriously or to pretend that liars don't exist. When pressure groups or the press claim otherwise, they only undermine their credibility, ensuring that the public will be more inclined to doubt future victims whose stories are embraced by these institutions. As The Washington Post's Megan McArdle writes:

It would, of course, be much simpler if women never lied about rape. Their stories wouldn't need to be interrogated, no sifting and sorting of the facts in a crime that is notoriously hard to prosecute.

But we know that's not possible. High-profile false rape accusations such as the ones in the Rolling Stone article reflect the reality that between 2 and 10 percent of rape allegations are provably false; the FBI says 8 percent of forcible-rape allegations are "unfounded." The number of false accusations that can't be proved false necessarily pushes that number even higher. To act as if this weren't the case borders on wishful thinking, and it comes at a cost.

NBC wasn't the only media outlet that seems to have relaxed its normal standards during the Kavanaugh hearings. The New Yorker, with exceptionally weak evidence, ran allegations of his sexual misbehavior in college. The reporters no doubt believed they were making it easier for victims to be heard. But airing insufficiently vetted allegations encourages the public to distrust the media. Actual victims won't be heard if no one's listening.

The Kavanaugh fiasco should serve as a strong reminder that the press must cautiously vet accusations, and that legal systems should operate in accordance with principles of fairness and a respect for due process.

Photo Credit: JONATHAN ERNST/REUTERS/Newscom

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  • colorblindkid||

    Until Dr. Ford's psychiatrist notes are released, or at least given to Republican Senators to review, I continue to not believe her account either.

  • JesseAz||

    But aside from the million dollar go fund me, a book deal, and a story to cover a violation of zoning laws.... What did Ford have to gain by coming forward?!?

  • John||

    What about zoning laws? I never heard anything about that.

  • Remember to keep it all polit||

    She passed the occupational licensing laws for Progressive.

  • ||

    What about zoning laws? I never heard anything about that.

    Her traumatic rape supposedly caused her to put two front doors on her house. It totally wasn't them operating an business out of their home or renting out part of their home to people.

  • JesseAz||

    Mad casual states it. She claimed it was the rape that caused the second door. The problem is the second door was on a unit they rented first to a previous psychologist as her place of business, when the door was put in, then used the room as a rental to silicon valley people. It was never used as a second exit for the primary residents, ie her.

  • damikesc||

    What about zoning laws? I never heard anything about that.

    The second door she had to have installed "for safety" was to allow her to rent out part of her house against zoning regulations.

  • Just Say'n||

    To sum-up, what clearly happened here is that Reason writers are willing to accept the most insane conspiracy about anyone who threatens abortion precedent.

  • Just Say'n||

    A shorter article by Robby would have been "I was willing to suspend common sense about an insane gang rape ring that had no corroborating witnesses, was disputed by the alleged witnesses identified by the accuser, and which was being pushed by a noted Democratic Party grifter, Michael Avanetti, because above all else anyone who threatens our current abortion regime should not be afforded the benefit of the doubt."

    That would be more honest then pretending as if you actually care about "innocent before proven guilty" once you've been exposed as a hack

  • loveconstitution1789||

    You mean abortion has not been banned yet?

    Reason assured me that Kavanaugh on the court would be an end to abortions.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    NBC wasn't the only media outlet that seems to have relaxed its normal standards during the Kavanaugh hearings. The New Yorker, with exceptionally weak evidence, ran allegations of his sexual misbehavior in college.

    Like a president suspending habeas corpus in extraordinary circumstances for the good of the union, often times the Fourth Estate must temporarily free itself of the shackles of journalistic rigor in order to make sure women's health isn't tossed aside like an empty keg.

  • JesseAz||

    The irony is Robby was the reason journalist who really lowered his standards. Silly for him to call out others.

  • Remember to keep it all polit||

    ??? Robby played a big part in exposing the lying Rolling Stone article.

  • John||

    No he didn't. He believed that story at first and didn't disbelieve it until it fell apart.

  • ||

    Wasn't Robby THE person to poke definitive holes in that story?

  • ||

    Wasn't Robby THE person to poke definitive holes in that story?

    It depends. To be sure, Robby reported it objectively. Several members of the commentariate ripped it to shreds on first reading. Robby and Sabrina got into a twitter fight and that's when Robby really turned the corner.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Was their fight like this?

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FycPMygBMu0

  • ||

    Wasn't Robby THE person to poke definitive holes in that story?

    Yes. IIRC, his immediate reaction was cautious skepticism that turned pretty quickly into full-blown doubt for which he took considerable shit at first.

  • Just Say'n||

    To be fair, though, the Rolling Stone rape accusation didn't threaten abortion precedent. So, Robby is pretty good at calling these things out if it doesn't effect abortion precedent.

    I think that's his guiding standard

  • John||

    http://reason.com/archives/201.....e-been-exp

    It's difficult to imagine a more callous, wholly inadequate response to a culture of seemingly rampant sexual assault at the University of Virginia (UVA) than the one its administrators practiced year after year, according to a horrifying account finally publicized by Rolling Stone last week. But that's precisely what happens when an entity equipped only to deal with academic misbehavior is instead pushed to do something about sexual assault: it finds itself putting the university's brand name first and the victims second.

    That was Robby's first take on the story. He believed it hook line and sinker despite it being patently absurd from the start.

  • Remember to keep it all polit||

    Robby changed his mind when new facts showed up. I recall several times where you denied ever having had different opinions, and others where you were shown to be flat-out wrong and never admitted it.

    I doubt you can see the difference.

  • John||

    I recall several times where you denied ever having had different opinions,

    No you don't. If you did, you would have a link showing where that happened. If you can provide such a link, then do so. Otherwise shut the fuck up and stop lying.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Weren't you on here posting about how the mail bombs were a false flag operation by some Democrat, John? That's just the latest of your foibles that I can remember off the top of my head.

  • Just Say'n||

    Let's just say that there are a lot of bad moments by different commentators here in accepting wild conspiracy theories.

    Except me. I've been right in not buying any of these wild conspiracy theories. And I fully expect to be vindicated on the Russia fever dreams.

    So basically, you should all just listen to me

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Except me.

    Whoa, hold on a sec. Aren't you the one that is always going on about how Bill Weld is the Antichrist that was prophecies in Revelations?

  • Just Say'n||

    "Whoa, hold on a sec. Aren't you the one that is always going on about how Bill Weld is the Antichrist that was prophecies in Revelations?"

    lol- I don't think I've ever referred to Weld in those terms, but yes Bill Weld is a joke of a man and he would be a disaster at the top of the LP ticket

  • Just Say'n||

    Although it is possible that Bill Weld's nomination for president could unleash the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Straight question: is Bi Weld even as fintiknaly libertarian as Trum has been?

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    'Bill Weld'. But maybe it works both ways.

  • John||

    Weren't you on here posting about how the mail bombs were a false flag operation by some Democrat, John?

    I posted that it was possible that it was and it looked like it probably was. But I never said for sure it was or made any claim other than the usual SWAG that everyone gives in those situations.

    It turned out that it wasn't, which is something that I never denied was possible.

  • posmoo||

    "Weren't you on here posting about how the mail bombs were a false flag operation by some Democrat, John?"

    Could have been me. I couldn't fathom how a conservative could be dumb enough to put a timer on a mail bomb instead of a trigger unless they were trying to scare and not injure, what conservative in their right mind would actually want the gift that never stops giving known as Maxine Waters dead, that a conservative could be dumb you enough to think a pipe shaped object in prepaid bag type usps envelope could make it passed screening to an expresident, and that a conservative could be so inept as to build 9 bombs that didn't go off.

    It was an amazingly incompetent attempt, and that plus the thousands of progressive criminal hoaxes in the past decade meant it smelled fishy to some reasonable people.

  • Just Say'n||

    Yeah. Agreed on the Rolling Stone article. But the Kavanaugh gang rape story was so insane that one would have had to be a blind partisan to have believed them

  • Just Say'n||

    Speaking of blind partisans, where is totally not just a progressive Cathy L?

  • John||

    Robby changed his mind when new facts showed up.

    Good for him. But that doesn't make his initial belief of the story any more defensible and it isn't the same thing as "poking holes in the story" as iis claimed. Robby never did shit except believe it and let other people do the work of debunking it.

    Why don't run along and stop wasting everyone's time telling us how dreamy Robby is.

  • Just Say'n||

    I don't know why you have to argue the past, John. The Rolling Stones story was perhaps believable considering how little information has provided.

    The gang rape story was never credible to anyone with half a brain. I think it's more damning that Robby ran with it with such gusto even when it was collapsing.

    Why don't you focus on the present rather than re-litigating the past

  • John||

    Because the truth matters. Soave never poked holes in anything. He just went along with whatever the consensus was.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I agree. And I find the idea of giving Robby any credit whatsoever on this to be repugnant.

  • John||

    I would like to think that I am relatively free of these biases. I have no particular axe to grind with fraternities, although I do think they play a regrettable and occasionally dangerous role as alcohol distributors to the under-21 crowd, courtesy of the federal drinking age. And I don't believe sexual assault is as grave a problem at college campuses as many activists have made it out to be—if the 1-in-4 statistic were anywhere close to accurate, it would be a baffling outlier in a sea of falling rape rates.

    So when I say that I was initially inclined to believe the story, it's not because I wanted or needed it to be true to fit my worldview. Rather, I assumed honesty on the part of the author and her source—not because I'm naive, but because I didn't think someone would lie about such an unbelievable story. This isn't a case of he-said / she-said; this is an extraordinary crime that indicts a dozen people and an entire university administration. Assuming a proper investigation—which the police are now conducting—confirming many of the specific details should be relatively easy. If "Jackie" is lying, there is a good chance she will be caught (and Erdely's career ruined). So I believed it.

    http://reason.com/blog/2014/12.....antic-hoax

    Here he, based on other people's work starts to think it might be a hoax but still believes it.

  • Just Say'n||

    Reason: the alternative that isn't

  • John||

    http://reason.com/blog/2014/12.....-retracted

    Here he finally admits the story is false based on a Washington Post story. Soave never poked holes in anything. He initially believed the story and then after other people revealed it to be false, changed his mind.

  • ||

    I stand corrected.

    It still appears though that Robby has embraced skepticism as a necessary part of the evaluation process, something he was less inclined to do four years ago.

  • Just Say'n||

    "something he was less inclined to do four years ago."

    Or four weeks ago

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    Wait, Robbie is Haven?

  • Ron Bailey||

    Yes.

  • Just Say'n||

    Man, so weird that he completely bought into this wild accusation then which had less evidence then the Rolling Stone accusation.

  • ||

    Which makes it all the worse. Less of a principled stance in favor of justice and athwart the prevailing winds and more of a blatant chasing of whatever sensation will make headlines.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Marcus Aurelius|11.5.18 @ 3:38PM|#

    Wait, Robbie is Haven?

    Ron Bailey|11.5.18 @ 3:15PM|#

    Yes.

    If only those timestamps lined up.

  • Radioactive||

    holy shit, little boy...there aint no fucking wolf

  • Rorschach||

  • Mongo||

    Your 'asked' hyperlink is 404ed, Rico.

  • Mongo||

    ...and the accounts have her as 'Munro-' not 'Munri-.'

  • John||

    We can't say for certain whether Ford's accusation against Kavanaugh was true, false, or somewhere in-between.

    Then fairness dictates that you treat them as if they didn't happen. To do otherwise would be to say that someone is guilty and should be treated as such whenever they are accused of something and unable to completely disprove it.

  • Just Say'n||

    No one gets invited to cocktail parties with independent thought

  • prolefeed||

    Well, not quite. Fairness requires that you note that while we can't say for certain whether her accusations were true or false, we can say that she utterly failed to substantiate them, and that since the burden of proof is on the accuser, journalistic standards of corroboration require maintaining the accused's presumption of innocence.

    Shorter: if Robby was a real journalist, he would say that the accused should be presumed innocent unless corroborating evidence for her allegations turns up later on.

  • Red Tony||

    The fact that Robby was cheerleading these accusations at the time, including the one made by Swetnick, puts him in the same group as the people he refers to as "not doing journalistic due process." If they weren't doing due diligence, and Robby parroted their talking points, Robby similarly wasn't doing his due diligence. That makes this whole article, with Robby's attempt at grandstanding in favor of due process, ring REALLY hollow.

  • John||

    Roby said on Twitter that the Swetnick allegation should mean the end of kavanugh's nomination.

  • Just Say'n||

    To be fair, the in-house conspiracy theorist at Reason, ENB, was the primary cheerleader for each more unhinged accusation

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Robby is in no way a journalist. He isn't even a good columnist. Just another embarrassment for Reason.

  • Remember to keep it all polit||

    Don't forget all the lynchings because some white woman said some black boy had whistled at her. I suppose those victim ddeclarations are to be believed too.

  • John||

    The real threat is not "believe all women". Only crazy feminsts take that seriously. The real threat is the idea that there being multiple allegations of something makes it certain the guy is guilty. Lots of people, including Robby, buy into that one. And it is just saying that if a lie is repeated by enough people it must be true.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    By Robby's own standard I hereby accuse him of having molested me forty years ago when I was a young boy. I don't remember much about it, have no witnesses to back me up, and no physical evidence, but unless he can come,Evelyn disprove it he is guilty and therefore I demand he lose his job with Reason.

  • Rorschach||

    Since I've already accused him of being a toddler rapist, and you've now accused him of molesting you, Robby has multiple allegations against him, is therefore a credibly accused child molester, and must therefore be immediately fired.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Yep. I also just remembered Shikha was there too. Can we get her booted?

  • perlchpr||

    Like that poor kid who got railroaded by the group of "mean girls" at his high school.

  • prolefeed||

    I pointed this out to my African American fiancee, who signed a "we believe you" petition.

    She didn't want to discuss that inconvenient bit of history.

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    Well, she can always say she was drugged by Bill Cosby at the time

  • Edwin||

    You're marrying a black woman who's so far off to the left that she can't even concede that good point? What the hell is wrong with you? Are you trying to make yourself miserable?

  • Edwin||

    You're marrying a black girl who is so far left she cant even agree with that point?
    What the hell is wrong wit you? Are you trying to make yourself miserable?

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    This has not deterred some activist groups. "We still believe Julie Swetnick," tweeted Planned Parenthood and NARAL.

    And, let's face it, the group really had no horse in the race so what cause would they have to do anything but look at the facts objectively. If anything, they should be lauded for not falling into the same trap as NOW, another activist group who, perhaps in a commendable attempt to temper its public voice with as much due diligence as possible, failed to give weight to accusations of claimed sexual assault survivor Juanita Broaddrick.

  • bevis the lumberjack||

    I don't think Julie Swetnick believes Julie Swetnick any more.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    The more I read about Swetnick, the more crazy hot she gets.

  • CDRSchafer||

    Just make sure you don't have pet rabbit unless you want it boiling in a pot when you come home after dumping her.

  • Rebel Scum||

    Swetnick is attractive, except for her crazy eyes.

  • prolefeed||

    Nice hair, but otherwise a hard "no" for me.

  • prolefeed||

    Nice hair, but otherwise a hard "no" for me.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Probably a hot fuck. I hear she likes gangbangs. Anyone got her number?

  • Eddy||

  • Rebel Scum||

    But does he still like beer?

  • Rorschach||

  • n00bdragon||

    We need a supercut of all the articles Mr Soave authored breathlessly parroting and speculating on the exact same accusations he now reports were false.

    Yes Robby. Due process fucking matters. I would say maybe next time you'll think before tripping over yourself in a mad rush to "believe the victim" but we all know that's true. You did it with UVA. You did it here. You'll do it next time too.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    #BelieveAllBitchez

  • ||

    Fuck you Chuck Todd.

    DO YOU JOB.

  • ||

    YOUR

  • ||

    Todd is part of the problem on how media feeds off the frenzy of false accusations. For the most part, on some level, they must know or have known there was a certain amount of bull shit going on. Or else they're worse journalists than we think so I have to think they *know*.

    But there's value in throwing shit in the media to get attention and possibly help your cause. I don't think it's a stretch the mainstream press on the main networks lean (and vote) Democrat and so had an interest in ruining Kavanaugh. This is what makes it so evil. They were willing to ruin his life on information they likely knew to be false.

    Mission accomplished. People now think there's a *rapist" on the Supreme Court because by the time the truth comes out people have moved on and what sticks is what they heard first. "First in, last out' they call this theory in accounting. In order for them to perhaps changed their minds, the media has to make a stink about the injustice.

    Don't hold your breath.

    I don't think people appreciate just how much it's good Kavanaugh was confirmed. Had he not, this sort of behaviour and journalism would have been normalized.

    They avoided a bullet. Like they did that sociopath Hillary.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Chuck Todd has no interest in journalism. His sole function is to execute the will of the DNC.

  • Dillinger||

    "do you job" text-okay in 2018

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    STEVE SMITH AGREE!

  • perlchpr||

    Oh, I just figured it was AAVE.

  • ||

    "The Kavanaugh fiasco should serve as a strong reminder that the press must cautiously vet accusations, and that legal systems should operate in accordance with principles of fairness and a respect for due process."

    Are we at the point where the progressive left are such jerk offs that we have to remind ourselves of this fact?

    Due process is a unique concept that evolved over two thousand years and we arrived at it based on experience and genius.

    Yet. Here we are. Amazing.

  • Rorschach||

    "Evolved" nothing! It was the Inquisition of all institutions (though not so much the government-directed Spanish one, mind) who pioneered things like preponderance of evidence and presumption of innocence. While that doesn't exactly absolve the Inquisition of its many excesses, it does say something dreadful about our current institutions that Kavanaugh could have gotten a fairer hearing from the Inquisition than he got from Congress and from media hacks like Robby Soave.

  • ||

    I'm pretty sure it dates back to Roman law.

    But interesting point between the Inquisition and the stupid embarrassment we saw with Kavanaugh.

  • Homple||

    It was noticed that due process matters back about the time of the Magna Carta.

  • DiegoF||

    #BelieveAllWenches

  • Cy||

    #innocentonesfloat

  • ||

    #NotANewt

  • Homple||

    #igotbetter

  • newshutz||

    #weighsduck

  • Just Say'n||

    A reminder, when a spurious sexual assault allegation was made against Mueller the media investigated it and found that it wasn't credible.

    None of this was done with Kavanaugh's accusers and Reason didn't even question the most ludicrous of the accusations.

    The alternative that wasn't

  • Just Say'n||

    To be sure, you really pissed away any credibility that you had on this topic. Are you Ronan Farrow?

  • DiegoF||

    He is a less butch Ronan Farrow.

  • ||

    'Credible accusations' was it?

  • Just Say'n||

    Here was Robby's take about how Swetnick's accusation was totes more credible than the Rolling Stone accusations:

    "But the Kavanaugh accusations, while not totally solid in every way, are significantly more plausible than the story an anonymous victim, "Jackie," told to Rolling Stone in 2014.

    Because I was an early skeptic of the UVA gang rape, a few people have asked me whether I am similarly skeptical of the Kavanaugh accusations. The journalist Richard Bradley—who expressed doubts about Jackie even before I did—has received the same queries. Like Bradley, I think there are important differences between what the Kavanaugh accusers—Christine Blasey Ford, Deborah Ramirez, and now Julie Swetnick—have claimed and what Jackie claimed."

  • Just Say'n||

    To be sure, if accusing you of being a gang rapist preserves abortion precedent, Robby is game. That's basically the difference between the two tales.

  • John||

    If the UVA accusations were so inplausible, why did Robby believe them at first?

  • Just Say'n||

    Focus on the present, rather than re-litigating the past

  • John||

    Soave is rewriting the past there. He beleived the UVA rape accusations at frist. But there is pretending that he always considered them to be absurd. He didn't.

  • Just Say'n||

    I don't recall the timeline then. What I do know is that Robby, ENB, the Fonz, and Shikha all pretended to believe a completely unbelievable story about gang rape parties pushed by a noted grifter.

    The takeaway here is that Reason is better understood as the NYT Addendum section rather than alternative to the media narrative on any given topic.

  • ||

    In all fairness John, that's like strike six or eight against Robby.

    I expect to hear that Robby was taking sniper fire in Bosnia at some point in the next couple of years.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Reason should shit can him. Especially since he raped me forty years ago.

  • Just Say'n||

    "Especially since he raped me forty years ago."

    That sounds credible af

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Just as credible as any of the BK accusers. Who according to Tony downthread, are very credible. So I also accused Tony of raping young boys, as I suddenly remember seeing him do it. But according to Tony's standard of credibility, I'm legit. So he's guilty of child rape.

  • Rorschach||

    Also because he rapes toddlers.

  • ||

    UVA. We'll always have...Ana Merlan.

    What has she been up to anyway?

  • Eddy||

    From Twitter:

    "My boyfriend just furiously ate a pretzel in front of me to settle a long-running feud about popcorn and snack foods in general which is actually a good summation of how long-term relationships work"

  • OpenBordersLiberal-tarian||

    Look, maybe some of the Kavanaugh allegations might not have been 100% truthful. But he was clearly unfit for the Supreme Court even before the #MeToo phase of the confirmation. Let's recap:

    1. Drumpf is an illegitimate President and should not even have gotten to put Gorsuch there.
    2. Kennedy's retirement was suspiciously timed and never fully explained.
    3. "Baseball ticket debt" — what's he hiding?
    4. The snubbed handshake.
    5. The white power gestures made by the woman behind him.
    6. The fact that he skipped the law school class where you learn Roe v. Wade is a SUPER-PRECEDENT that can never be reversed.

    Unfortunately, even with the heroic efforts of Harris, Booker, and Feinstein, the progressive / libertarian alliance failed to stop him. But it's been incredibly poor taste the way Republicans have "spiked the football" since then.

    #SaveRoe
    #Resist

  • Rebel Scum||

    3. "Baseball ticket debt" — what's he hiding?

    I laughed.

  • John||

    Who was he buying bsebal tickets for? The Russians?

  • CDRSchafer||

    Washington National Socialists Nazi Russian election hackers rich capitalist gang rapers.

  • OpenBordersLiberal-tarian||

    We cannot say for sure it's the Russians. But that's exactly the problem. There could be any number of powerful, shadowy figures he believes he owes a favor. That might impact his rulings on future cases.

    And if nothing else, it demonstrates poor money management.

  • Just Say'n||

    Stop. You're getting the writers aroused.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Turns out it was the Elbonians.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    6. The fact that he skipped the law school class where you learn Roe v. Wade is a SUPER-PRECEDENT that can never be reversed

    That was my favorite class in college. Everyone in the class hugged afterwards and agreed about the importance of it all.

  • Just Say'n||

    And you want to be a Catholic

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    When I took that class, someone from Planned Oarenthood dropped by and handed out BOGO abortion coupons.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Everyone in the class hugged afterwards

    You misspelled 'groped'.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Ok, Hit'n'runners, this is how you troll.

  • Nuwanda||

    Bingo.

  • Number 2||

    #6 is a classic. Bravo!

  • BillEverman||

    "Munri-Leighton's confession means this accusation should be definitively labeled false."

    Come on, Reason (and Robby), you're better than this. Munri-Leighton didn't recant the accusation; she merely admitted that she wasn't the one who made the accusation. Someone sent an anonymous letter with another accusation against Kavanaugh, and Munri-Leighton sent an e-mail claiming to be the letter writer. Now, she has admitted that ti wasn't her. That admission has no bearing on whether the original accusation was true or not.

    Personally, I don't give anonymous accusations against public figures a lot of weight, but Munri-Leighton admitting that she didn't write it doesn't prove it's false.

  • Tony||

    It's fucking beyond belief--and a credit to Republicans' utter soullessness--that getting a credibly accused (attempted) drunken rapist on the Supreme Court can be turned around to make the accused and Donald fucking Trump the real victims. Why do people just eat this up? He's on the goddamn Supreme Court. You won!

    You could have nominated someone not credibly accused of being a drunken rapist, but you decided to push this douche through just because you could. So that you didn't have to show any weakness. Well done. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

  • Just Say'n||

    Three accusers have been found to have lied. There is still zero corroborating evidence to back-up Ford's accusation and the Senate is still investigating her accusations.

    I'm not sure that your takeaway is the smart one right now

  • Tony||

    How about a higher bar than "It's likely he didn't succeed at raping anyone"?

  • Just Say'n||

    WTF are you talking about?

  • Tony||

    You know, because he was too stumbling drunk.

  • Just Say'n||

    Tony, I've said this many times and each time I've been sincere. I'm not trying to be a jerk. You clearly are not well mentally and you should seek counseling or something.

    I don't know how anyone can view three false accusations as evidence that their talking point has been vindicated other than someone who views politics as their entire nature of being.

    There is more to life than team sports

  • NashTiger||

    You don't have to try. It comes naturally

  • Just Say'n||

    Tony, I've said this many times and each time I've been sincere. I'm not trying to be a jerk. You clearly are not well mentally and you should seek counseling or something.

    I don't know how anyone can view three false accusations as evidence that their talking point has been vindicated other than someone who views politics as their entire nature of being.

    There is more to life than team sports

  • Tony||

    His display in front of the Senate was an embarrassment. Disbelieving his accuser means actively believing in a complex conspiracy theory. It also means implicitly endorsing one tribe over the other, so save the sanctimony.

  • Just Say'n||

    I don't know how you would behave if people were falsely accusing you of running a gang rape ring when you were in high school (without any evidence), but I'm pretty sure most sane people would be pretty upset

  • Tony||

    There was plenty of evidence put on display of an attempted rape. Plenty of evidence of alcohol abuse. Supreme Court nominees have been taken down for far less. The bar is not where it is in a fucking criminal court. At least it shouldn't be, but Republicans are awful.

  • Just Say'n||

    There is, by definition, literally no evidence of any kind of assault

  • Just Say'n||

    Tony is embracing his inner Alex Jones

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Tony is also embracing ten year old boys. From behind. With his penis.

  • Tony||

    Except first-person witness testimony.

  • Just Say'n||

    She is the only witness. All of the witnesses that she listed denied her accusation

  • Tony||

    No they didn't. Now you're lying.

  • John||

    No they didn't. Now you're lying.

    Yes they did. Show a link that says otherwise. Show me one person that ever corroborated Ford's story. They don't exist.

    Stop lying Tony.

  • Just Say'n||

    I am literally not lying. That is all true. There are zero corroborating witnesses to every single accusation that was made

  • Sevo||

    Tony|11.5.18 @ 3:43PM|#
    "There was plenty of evidence put on display of an attempted rape."

    There was precisely zero evidence, you lying piece of shit.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I saw Tony rape children. Since he can't prove it didn't happen, he's guilty.

    #convictTonyofchildrape

  • Fooseven||

    Complex conspiracy theory? Not half as complicated as the actual conspiracy employed against Bernie by the the dnc and its media allies.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Disbelieving his accuser means actively believing in a complex conspiracy theory.

    Or it could just mean that a few activist Democrat women who may or may not have known him in their youth decided on their own initiative to try and torpedo his nomination.

  • ||

    Tony's lunile sophistry is why the Greeks invented philosophy.

  • n00bdragon||

    At some point in either 1994 or 1995 Tony raped me in a drunken rage on top of a pile of broken glass at a frat party while Robby Soave held me down.

  • Just Say'n||

    The Senate Republicans are obviously pissed and are not letting these accusers get away. I'd suspect that some Senate Democrats are going to be implicated in this affair if Republicans keep their majority in the Senate.

    This was a terrible tactical move by Democrats

  • Tony||

    Well, it failed. I say forget all the rape stuff. His Tucker Carlson lizard people ranting was disqualifying to me and it happened right there live on TV. I'm sure he'll recuse himself in any case involving Democrats.

  • Just Say'n||

    You're not even making sense anymore

  • Rebel Scum||

    Has he ever?

  • Tony||

    Put another way: I don't care about this guy's reputation. I care more about the women who are going to have to shove coat hangers up their snatches because this guy is on the SC.

  • Just Say'n||

    Like I said all along- this was never about false rape accusations. It was always about the God of Abortion

  • Tony||

    If he had a (D) after his name you'd listen to the women. Some false accusations do not make all the accusations false. That is how FOX News treats evidence, I'm well aware.

  • Just Say'n||

    No. If he had a (D) after his name then the media wouldn't have been so cavalier in believing the accusations, if we're being honest

  • Sevo||

    Tony|11.5.18 @ 3:44PM|#
    "If he had a (D) after his name you'd listen to the women."

    The lying shitbag Tony thinks his hypothetical assumption is "proof".

  • TuIpa||

    "I care more about the women who are going to have to shove coat hangers up their snatches because this guy is on the SC."

    Do, not at all about either, but totally about winning politically.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Some false accusations do not make all the accusations false.

    Accusations without evidence aren't worth taking seriously. Christine Boozy Ford should be grateful that she managed to sucker a bunch of proglydyte idiots into making her an instant candidate to appear on My Lottery Dream Home where she can get that second rape door installed, instead of being sued into oblivion.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Amd there it is. It doesn't matter to you that he's 100% innocent, it's all about Team Blue getting their way by any means necessary. Which is always the way it is.

    A lot of the others here don't understand how bad you and your kind are Tony, but I do. I know goddamn well it won't be over until you all leave or die. For your own good, I suggest you start packing now, because when you and your Marxist friends finally push us into a civil war, you will be wiped off the map.

    Get out while you can and take as many of your scumbag pals with you as possible.

  • Entropy Drehmaschine Void||

    " I care more about the women who are going to have to shove coat hangers up their snatches because this guy is on the SC."

    And that number would be exactly ZERO.

  • ||

    Lol.

    Ok. That was bad but conservative lizard people!

    Man oh man.

  • Nardz||

    Watching Tony's process through that thread was fascinating.
    And if you can sift through the psychotic bargaining, it actually shows some progress.
    Tony represents himself as an NPC, but I don't think he really is.
    Give him time, but he's one of the few progressives with an actual chance to survive the nervous breakdown and reform.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    It's fucking beyond belief--and a credit to Republicans' utter soullessness--that getting a credibly accused (attempted)

    Ok, I take my previous comment back, this, Hit'n'Runners, is how you troll.

  • Tony||

    I only came here to express sheer admiration at how Republicans can come out the other side of credible accusations of serious wrongdoing, a freight train process with very little actual investigation, and getting everything they wanted, yet with everyone convinced they're the victims.

    I may never understand how they maintain their image as tough shit kickers simultaneously while being whiny little bitches about literally everything.

  • Sevo||

    Tony|11.5.18 @ 3:37PM|#
    "I only came here to express sheer admiration at how Republicans can come out the other side of credible accusations of serious wrongdoing, a freight train process with very little actual investigation, and getting everything they wanted, yet with everyone convinced they're the victims."

    And instead you ended up expressing what a pathetic, lying piece of shot you are.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Whining? Like those young boys I witnessed you raping?

  • Rebel Scum||

    credibly accused

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Personally I did not fin the hair over the eye and little girl voice convincing. Also, the inconsistencies, and the shear lack of detail and corroboration. You leftists really do live in an alternate reality.

  • Tony||

    So it was a conspiracy and she was a crisis actor?

  • Just Say'n||

    No. She's a liar and she's basically admitted to as much

  • Tony||

    Christine Ford is a liar?

  • Just Say'n||

    Most likely

  • Tony||

    That's an accusation too. Show the evidence.

  • Just Say'n||

    Shouldn't the accuser show evidence? How am I suppose to disprove something that she can't prove? All of the witnesses that she said witnessed the assault all deny this, including her friend

  • Tony||

    That is not true. See, this is what I'm talking about. A tweak to facts here, some bullshit doubletalk here, and suddenly the guy who got a seat on the supreme court and the party who got everything they wanted are the real victims here, not the many women Brett has assaulted, attempted to assault, and intimidated in his life. Did you see his behavior? Let's not put people on the supreme court who are like that. He's clearly a short-tempered drunk. The worst people.

  • Sevo||

    Tony|11.5.18 @ 4:01PM|#
    "That is not true. See, this is what I'm talking about. A tweak to facts here, some bullshit doubletalk here,..."

    And all of a sudden you, in your imbecility, assume something.
    Fuck off, you slimy excuse for humanity.

  • Sevo||

    BTW, you fucking ignoramus, tell us about the Russkis again and how Mueller's got all sorts of evidence against people who at one time knew Trump and then were caught J-walking.
    It's fun to laugh at you.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    A tweak to facts here, some bullshit doubletalk here, and suddenly the guy who got a seat on the supreme court and the party who got everything they wanted a bunch of lying wine aunts are the real victims here

    Fixed that for you.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Tony, you really should take your own life. Seriously.

  • TuIpa||

    "That's an accusation too"

    No, actually, it is a conclusion.

    HTH

  • ||

    That's an accusation too. Show the evidence.

    This line of thinking has been previously discredited by myself and others.

    Ford presented a case that an assault (not a rape) took place at an unknown location on an unknown date. There is no physical evidence and no corroborating witnesses. It is categorically impossible to prove that such an event did not take place.

    Argument From Ignorance or Non-Testable Hypothesis

    This is the fallacy that that which has not been proven false must or is likely to be true; however, the fallacy usually applies to concepts that haven't yet been adequately tested or are beyond the realm of proof.

  • Nardz||

    Yes, christine blasey Ford is a liar.

    She lied about the second door on her home and its use.
    She lied about her feelings toward flying.
    She lied about her therapy.
    She lied about the polygraph.
    She lied about the alleged event, as she changed her story multiple times and was contradicted by every other person she said was involved.

    Frequent lying are the actions of a liar.

  • Rebel Scum||

    No...she is a liar.

  • Tony||

    Something you believe 100% because you think Republicans should be in charge of the country, not for any other reason.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    If you can't defeat a prospective supreme court nominee on the issues, but feel the need to slag him on falsified charges of gang rape, you better have some extra-fucking-ordinary evidence for such a claim.

    And b'tween you and me... had I had any shred of belief over Ford's accusations, I'd want to see Swetnick and Michael Avenatti tarred, feathered and thrown in a dark hole for a while.

    You had a pair of deuces with Ford, then Avenatti et. al shoved all the chips forward and bluffed that pair of deuces as a straight flush. It's not our fault your bluff got called and you lost the hand.

  • ||

    They're horrible poker players.

    Obama was just as bad at it.

    Red line was a similar bluff.

  • Rebel Scum||

    She was not able to provide evidence or a consistent story.

  • ||

    Something you believe 100% because you think Republicans should be in charge of the country

    Do you really think that way? Her demonstrably changing over time accusation is beyond the realm of proof, and she is currently being abundantly recognized and rewarded for her testimony, but anyone who does not accept her truth at face value is just another Republican shill?

    Logic has no place in political discourse?

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Tony, you Leary admitted this was about overturning Roe V Wade. So just stop the charade. BK is guilty because of politics and no other reason. You certainly don't give a fuck about the rule of law.

  • khm001||

    She's a liar because she told provable lies.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Tony you lying cunt, none of the accusations were 'credible'. But since you say they are, I accuse you of raping underage boys. I saw you do it. I have no evidence, but I say it is so. Now you need to lose your job and be endlessly investigated by law enforcement until they can prove it.

    That's your standard, right? You fucking pedophile.

  • khm001||

    "getting a credibly accused (attempted) drunken rapist on the Supreme Court"

    I love comments like these. Makes clear just how deranged democrats in general are and specifically how deranged Tony is.

  • khm001||

    "getting a credibly accused (attempted) drunken rapist on the Supreme Court"

    I love comments like these. Makes clear just how deranged democrats in general are and specifically how deranged Tony is.

  • Sevo||

    "Subsequently, Munri-Leighton recanted her charge and admitted she had never met Kavanaugh. "I was angry, and I sent it out," she said.
    Munri-Leighton's confession means this accusation should be definitively labeled false."

    This woman did her damnedest to ruin a guy's life and also cast doubt on women who have been raped.
    Drawing and quartering is a bit extreme, but she should not just walk.

  • Sevo||

    BTW:
    "NBC wasn't the only media outlet that seems to have relaxed its normal standards during the Kavanaugh hearings. The New Yorker, with exceptionally weak evidence, ran allegations of his sexual misbehavior in college."

    Neither NBC or the New Yorker 'relaxed standards' at all.
    Their constant standards are such as to make them every bit as believable as a post from that lying scumbag turd.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    The Kavanaugh fiasco should serve as a strong reminder that the press must cautiously vet accusations

    America's legitimate press has reviewed and catalogued thousands of falsehoods expressed by Pres. Trump.

    Gullible wingnuts still believe every one, however. The yahoos call that "faith."

  • Sevo||

    Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|11.5.18 @ 4:07PM|#
    "America's legitimate press has reviewed and catalogued thousands of falsehoods expressed by Pres. Trump."

    Yeah. Didn't he say "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor!"?

  • JWatts||

    And something about bending the cost curve down.

  • Sevo||

    'Most transparent admin EVAH!!!!'

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    *throws a quarter into Kirk's cup and avoids eye contact*

  • ||

    I said I don't need my windows washed squeegee boy!

    I'm starting to think he's a parody. Nobody is that retarded.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I also just remembered that Arty raped a bunch of folks too. That is also credible. Lock him up.

  • TuIpa||

    You can see Rev is getting tired of losing.

  • Naaman Brown||

    I expect Trump to toss out zingers to set off his critics. It is a game he plays. And youse guys takes it serious when he's playing Yo Momma level stuff as distraction.

  • Dillinger||

    none of you should ever have published the word "credible".

  • Uncle Jay||

    Due process is an archaic bourgeois idea that's time has to come to be eliminated.
    All legal decisions should be up to a mob or at bare minimum, someone who knows how to distribute a form of "peoples' justice."
    For too long, innocent people have been released into society only to work hard, contribute to the world, pay taxes, raise families, generate wealth, etc. much to the detriment to our beloved socialist slave state.
    The Union of Soviet Socialist Slave States has too many people has to many people living in it, and a good way to cull the excess population is through government healthcare, (deny them life giving drugs and surgeries), sending them off to the local gulag (where they can be starved or shot for trying to escape) or denying them the nefarious and ugly idea of due process. The French and the Russians had it right when they correctly killing people at the will of the mob. Therefore, in the best interest of the ruling elitist vermin, due process should be terminated immediately.

  • Number 2||

    "The reporters no doubt believed they were making it easier for victims to be heard."

    No doubt at all. Their pre-existing political biases played no role what-so-ever.

  • Nardz||

    And they've now made it much harder for legitimate victims to be believed

  • Naaman Brown||

    Bullshit.

    They objected to Brett Kavanaugh because of his constitutional theories and judicial record on the circuit court.

    When supposedly legal objections failed to work, they decided to blindside him by hitting below the belt last minute.

    16 Sep Ford. (Emma Brown's story in WapO)
    23 Sep Ramirez.
    26 Sep Swetnick
    Then the supposed fourth one who told NYT that the 2 Oct Declaration presented by Avenatti was his words not hers and she did not backup Swetnick (and NYT sat on that 3 weeks and did not reveal until 27 Oct LONG after Kavanaugh was approved 6 Oct).

  • Naaman Brown||

    Added:19 Sep Judy Munro-Leighton (letter to Sen Harris)

    Five accusers (four named)

    19 Sep Munro-Leighton admitted she filed a false allegation because she was angry and wanted to do somrthing.
    The Unknown Declarant posted on Twitter by Avenatti on 3 Oct told NBC the next day he twisted and added to her words.
    Given that Swetnick's 1 Oct NBC interview did not track with her 26 Sep Declaration probably means Avenatti not only twisted and added to the Unknown Declarant's words, but may have done the same in Swetnick's case.
    Anyone who can read the New Yorker article opening Deborah Ramirez' claims and the NYT follow-up (she was calling friends hoping they remembered something because she was not sure it was Kavanaugh) and still consider her story "credible" has problems with the definition of "credible".
    That leaves Christine Ford with a story that only a Mike Nifong would press charges over.

  • Naaman Brown||

    And 19 Sep accuser's name according to credible sources is Judy Munro-Leighton and not Judy Munri-Leighton.

  • ||

    You needed this to "prove" that due process matters????? "Reason" on that!

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Well we needed something.

  • cc2||

    Let's take another case where we can test if women ever lie: divorce proceedings. Men will document that almost every angry wife lies to get a better deal during a divorce. They also clearly lie when they are having an affair (you don't hear "honey I'll be late tonight, I'm meeting my boyfriend"). Women make up a good portion of check fraud and shoplifting. Women never lie...right.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Girls steal.

  • CGN||

    Having the "support" of NARAL and Planned Parenthood (a.k.a., Planned Murder of Babies) have ZERO honor, ZERO believability, and ZERO decency. Too bad they and their supporters are too old to abort.

  • Bearded Spock||

    Robby Soave is decrying false accusations of sexual abuse against Brett Kavanaugh?

    This is like Bill Clinton lamenting the decline in the institution of marriage.

    Irony is now officially dead, buried, and rotting in the grave.

  • LiborCon||

    NBC felt cheated

    Of course they did. The bought a false accusation and the seller didn't deliver.

  • Jayburd||

    The question is- how much did they pay? All the major networks have a long history of KNOWINGLY broadcasting lies, They invented FAKE NEWS.

  • XM||

    BK wasn't entitled to due process because he was never charged with a crime. All the senators could have voted against him even he wasn't found guilty by court. Conversely, they could have just laughed at the accusers, never invited any of them to testify and held the vote 5 days after the accusation surfaced.

    The democrats wanted a de facto criminal investigation by the FBI, even though though no relevant jurisdiction charged BK with any crime. But when his supporters pointed out that lack of evidence should favor the accused, they found it convenient to say "this is a job interview, not a trial". So basically, they wanted due process to apply only to their side.

    The question of fairness (Due process only formally ensures it in a trial) should apply in any scenario. Walmart can technically fire anyone if some random nutjob accuses their employee of rape on FB. If this was regular business practice, the libs would be screaming "corporate greed" or something to that effect from the mountaintops.

    The democrats could have met halfway and agreed to move on after a reasonable inquiry discovered no wrongdoing. But they want all YOLO on this issue. The Ford saga is going to be a source of embarrassment for that party for years to come.

  • MrMLK||

    The guy who repeatedly perjured himself to congress is currently sitting on the high court. I think the question of whether or not some of his accusers were lying is of somewhat less importance now.

    I'm far more concerned about his lies in 2018 than I am of his possible behavior 30 years ago.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    So which progtard shill website face you those talking points? Media Matters? Moveon? Parademagazine.com?

  • DesigNate||

    That is some quality retard right there.

  • vek||

    I hope they investigate Ford too, and find evidence that bitch was lying. I just felt it in my gut, and from looking at her, and from all the other life facts about her, that it was pure BS. If they could PROVE it was, that would be icing on the cake.

    The Rs SHOULD NOT drop this. They should crucify all those assholes, to make an example, and make it harder for the Dems to find future would be liars to come forward.

  • Anomalous||

    She didn't know when the "incident" occurred (unclear even as to the year), where, who else was there, or how she got to and from there.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    She didn't come forward until she saw Sen. Feinstein's Craigslist ad for someone to slander BK.

  • D-Pizzle||

    They can't prove that she was lying because, in failing to state the time and place where the alleged incident occurred, she rendered the accusation non-falsifiable. Good lawyers FTW.

  • Anomalous||

    Believe All Women.

    Unless they happen to be lying twats.

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