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Hillary Clinton Says Democrats Can't Be Civil Until They're Back in Power

According to the former Democratic presidential nominee, "you cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for."

CNNCNNDonald Trump seems to think civility is for losers. The candidate he defeated in the 2016 presidential election, by contrast, argues that civility is for winners.

"I would love to see us return to civility," Hillary Clinton told CNN's Christiane Amanpour on Tuesday. Unfortunately, she added, that won't be possible until the Democrats return to power. "You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about," she said. "That's why I believe, if we are fortunate enough to win back the House and/or the Senate, that's when civility can start again."

The problem, Clinton explained, is that Republicans in Congress have abused their power and treated Democrats shabbily, which is something Democrats would never do to Republicans. Unlike the Democrats, you see, the Republicans are "an ideological party that is driven by the lust for power." Trump may be comically lacking in self-awareness, but Clinton gives him a run for his money in her own drearily self-righteous way.

Clinton's comments drew a rebuke from Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D-N.D.). "That's ridiculous," she told CNN's Anderson Cooper on Tuesday evening. "I can't imagine how you get anything done if you don't bring civility back into politics, and that goes for both sides." Maybe Heitkamp is just a nicer person than Clinton, but I suspect her evenhandedness has something to do with the fact that she is up for re-election in a state that went for Trump by a margin of more than 2 to 1.

If incivility prevents Congress from getting things done, that may count in its favor, since most of what Congress does—especially when it attracts broad, bipartisan support—is either not worth doing or positively pernicious. Then again, there is a case to be made that some worthwhile projects, such as spending cuts and entitlement reform, can be accomplished only with a certain amount of interparty trust.

But the case for civility goes beyond getting bills passed. Treating political opponents as mortal enemies is a recipe for constant rancor and strife. It invites people to view themselves as morally superior, to abandon principle when it benefits the other side, and to automatically dismiss ideas espoused by members of the wrong tribe. Ultimately, if people take seriously the idea that everything they care about is on the line, it invites violence.

Clinton's idea of civility—the grace that good people with power deign to grant their defeated and benighted opponents—reminds me of Nira Cain-N'Degeocello, the smug Sacha Baron Cohen character who sees his mission as "listening respectfully, without prejudice, to Republicans, with the hope of changing their racist and childish views." But when she says "you cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for," she demonstrates an even more disturbing failure of empathy, since she denies the possibility that people may sincerely disagree with her for what they take to be good reasons and may therefore think she is trying to destroy what they stand for. If civility is out of the question in that situation, peaceful and rational debate is impossible.

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  • NashTiger||

    I suspect the Republicans will then not enjoy the right to be uncivil once they are back in the minority, and Frau Clinton is destroying what they stand for

  • JesseAz||

    I too remember the violent tea party who dared to leave parks and other venues cleaner than when they got their. The ruined and committed violence to all the public workers who lost jobs not cleaning up after them. This is why the left leaves locust like Carnage behind in their gatherings like good Americans do.

  • GoatOnABoat||

    Republicans don't incite mob violence.

  • John C. Randolph||

    This just in: Hillary remains a power-hungry, self absorbed cunt.

    -jcr

  • ||

    self absorbed cunt
    Saves a lot on feminine hygiene products.

  • CLM1227||

    Eww and lol

  • Woody Chip Hurrrrr?||

    She's back in heat.

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    Thanks, now I need to claw my eyeballs out.

  • Teddy Pump||

    Who also likes to muff dive! (See; Huma Abedin).....HornDawg Bill was once asked if his wifey liked women & said, "She eats more muff than I do!

  • DrZ||

    This just in: "Hillary is Still not President of the U.S.A."

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    "you cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for."

    The feeling's mutual, you desiccated, pants-shitting, booze-guzzling, can't-handle-stairs-or-80-degree-heat, harpy.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    Have to say you said it better than I did.

  • BYODB||

    Hague the Hag?

    Just kidding, they'd put her in charge. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Hillary get a job somewhere in the U.N. organization.

  • Radioactive||

    they do need someone to sweep up when the meetings are complete.

  • Rat on a train||

    Think of the fundraising opportunities, for her.

  • Uncle Jay||

    Don't sugar coat it.
    Tell us how you really feel!

  • Teddy Pump||

    Can we be civil while destroying what BOTH PARTIES stand for????

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    No.

  • MoreFreedom||

    Give Clinton credit for pointing out that government force is uncivil - and Democrat politics is about getting one's hands on the levers of power to use against political enemies.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    With this and the recent "kick em" comment from Holder, it does seem that the Democrats want to escalate the conflict. Certainly much of this is for the sole purpose of imploring the faithful to tale the trouble to vote, but given the current level of rancor I find it incredibly irresponsible that they are using this language. At what point does real violence actually break out?

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    Hillary and the like have lost control of their mobs and are just trying to get eaten last.

    The mobs are trying to provoke martial law, so they claim Trump is a dictator.

  • NashTiger||

    Like an attempted mass shooting directed at Republican lawmakers? Or a blindside assault while one is cutting their grass? Or an attempted stabbing at a town hall/rally? or a planned bombing on election day?

  • CE||

    The guy planning the bombing wanted politicians to be elected randomly.
    Which seems like a big improvement.

  • Social Justice is neither||

    It's like you all have forgotten antifa and their love-ins in Portland.

  • JesseAz||

    I'd think the shooting of scalise and the attempted stabbing this year of a republican candidate is proof enough. We didn't need to wait for holder and Hillary to confirm.

  • Don't look at me!||

    He was just being uncivil.

  • MoreFreedom||

    According to Democrats, when Trump (or a conservative) speaks, it's hate, a hate crime and inciting violence. When Antifa engages in violence or a mob hounds someone, that's just protest speech.

  • Longtobefree||

    The day of Donald Trump's election, as I recall.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    It's already happened in Portland. Trump needs to take control of the Oregon National Guard amd delcare ,atrial law there. Antifa must be out down, hopefully with deadly force.

  • Teddy Pump||

    But, this tactic may backfire on them & insure that more & more Repubs & those Independents who lean a bit right may also come out in droves to defeat the Dumbo-Crats, who they could not stand even before they went off the deep end!...Reminds me of the 1972 prez election: The country was weary of the Vietnam war & did want it to end, but, the violence by the supposedly pacifist Weathermen bombing the Pentagon & other violent protests turned off a lot of the nation & made sure Nixon got easily reelected!

  • Social Darwinist||

    Hillary and Holder translation: "Our army of safe-space, latte drinking, soy-boys that need a "support animal" everywhere they travel should be uncivil and kick the army of redneck, military (active, vet, and retired), hunters, and gun-loving icky people."

    I'm no Nostradamus but I think I know which side would win that fight.

    Now as a libertarian I shouldn't have a dog in this fight, but I expect H&H's incivility is leveled at anyone they see as having helped Trump get elected including all those deplorable 3rd party voters.

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

  • BYODB||

    You're not supposed to remember that a leftist attempted to murder a group of Republicans playing baseball. That was put down the memory hole after, what, a whole two days? It's the only shooting I can recall where the whole media didn't rise up in arms regarding gun control, too. I wonder why?

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    Liberal website editor defends tweets mocking Rep. Steve Scalise for getting shot
    When a politician opposes all reasonable gun control and gets shot he deserves a Darwin award nomination not a sympathy card.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    When a journalist advocates for gun control and gets shot or jailed by the government he deserves a Darwin award nomination not a sympathy card.

  • ||

    Hahahahahahaha, [snort!]

  • Mickey Rat||

    It is amazing how the attempted openly political assassination of over a dozen GOP Congressmen and Senators was not regarded as the end times of American civilization by the press, especially in light of their reaction to Giffords shooting by an apolitical lunatic.

  • BYODB||

    Indeed, as Johnny implies above it's likely because they were disappointed he didn't succeed. That was the moment, in fact, when I realized the far left had truly become inimical to America.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    It's not amazing, it's indicative of where their sympathies lie.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    We need a return to McCarthyism, and a the focus should be in the seditious amd treasonous demc Rat party amd their subversive activities.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    If you were to get an honest answer from the majority of Democrats, they'd just say they had it coming to them. And the media sure as hell isn't going to sympathize with them. I suspect they'd like to see more of that.

  • Bubba Jones||

    Fascinating. National review just had a piece by Goldberg that senatorial civility was counter to democracy. And Williamson explaining the folly of empathy. As opposed to sympathy.

    It's deja vu all over again.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    As in 1861 deja vu?

  • Dillinger||

    >>>piece by Goldberg that senatorial civility was counter to democracy

    Goldberg ignores today's Senate is one team united.

  • ThomasD||

    Can you link the specific article you are referencing?

    I find it hard to believe that Goldberg was arguing for 'democracy,' but suppose anything is possible given what TDS has wrought upon the chatteratti.

  • Benitacanova||

    Are you talking about Jonah and Kèeeeeeevvvvvvviiin? I'd consider a discussion between a coaster and a table leg to exceed those two in intellectual depth.

  • BYODB||


    Then again, there is a case to be made that some worthwhile projects, such as spending cuts and entitlement reform, can be accomplished only with a certain amount of interparty trust.


    Are you stupid? One entire party is entirely on board with spending only ever going up and the other party happens to mostly agree with them. If one pays attention, Bernie 'Gulag' Sanders was the only 'leftist' to vote against spending this past time around. That's right, the motherfucking socialist voted no alongside only Republicans. Surprise, assholes, this is where we are today.

  • Uncle Adolf's Gas and Grill||

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    He probably voted that way because it wasn't enough and he didn't want to set a precedent...

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    That is correct. He even said so. The budget was a few trillion dollars to light for his taste.

  • CE||

    MOar free stuff, please.

  • JFree||

    I think there are a lot of possibilities to agree on things that are the right thing to do and be civil while doing that - outside the DeRpity DeRp.

  • Dan Bongard||

    Could we just all agree to stop paying attention to Hillary Clinton now that her career is over?

  • NoVaNick||

    Well, the dems seem to be paying lots of attention to her-kind of like taking driving lessons from someone who just drove your bus off a cliff. Of course, it wasn't HER fault that they lost an election against a complete fucking asshole who was proud to lie and insult all the way to victory.

  • GlenchristLaw||

    Or drove your stretch limo off a cliff. (Too soon?)

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Trump al ost literally said "hold my beer while I do this". She was a shitty candidate who also lost to an upstart like Obama in the 2008 primiaroes.

    Winning a senate seat in NY as a democrat is no real feat. And she paid to make sure she would win the primary there.

  • Ron||

    In Trumps case it was hold my ice cream cone or was it hold that p...y for me

  • Eternal Blue Sky||

    It depends.

    If she says something on politics then we need to pay attention to her.

    If someone tries to criticize her, then she's not a public official anymore and we need to leave her alone.

  • OpenBordersLiberal-tarian||

  • NoVaNick||

    You link to a year old article-sad.

  • OpenBordersLiberal-tarian||

    These things take time. But Robert Mueller is now in the final stages of his investigation. I'm confident he'll have something amazing to present to the Democratic Congress next year.

  • Don't look at me!||

    Your complete lack of effort here is disappointing. You are not working to your potential.

  • Gilbert Martin||

    Of course the printed word doesn't allow for perfect parody.

    For that you need audio and video to capture the shrill, high-pitched squealing and mannerisms.

  • buybuydandavis||

    I liked it.

    More of a hit and run tweet than a fully elaborated scene, but it worked for me.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    You need to cut back on the poasting so the ones you do provide have greater impact. Lately, most of your efforts have been pretty watered-down.

  • Libertymike||

    #Beto'sstillacreep

  • Red Tony||

    That's intentional. It's one of OBL's go-to links, to show how the left's argument against Trump has not changed since his election. It's actually one of the better parts of their persona, because it manages to display how the left is still stuck screaming "but DRUMPF!" two years on.

  • Nwallins||

    OBL is a terrist. Don't negotiate, just go nukular.

  • Uncle Jay||

    Stop it.
    You're scaring the all the sane people here.

  • Kirk Solo||

    That was the dumbest "Article" I have ever read.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    Her and Bill are doing a conversation tour. It may do well because of Bill. The ladies will pay some bucks to get a ... oh well nevermind

  • Hank Ferrous||

    Who da fuck cares what a coat tails riding, 2 time losing, held secstate & senator posts as resumé bullets, ignoramus says? If incivility devolves into unrest or war, she'll be 1 of the 1st against the wall.

  • Just Say'n||

    Grandma antifa

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    I have something new to call her now, thank you.

  • Dillinger||

    lol

  • OpenBordersLiberal-tarian||

    Hillary Clinton was the most qualified candidate ever. She would be President right now, and the country would be much better off, if not for the Comey letter and Russian hacking. (And GamerGate.)

    While I condemn violence and illegal behavior, I agree with what she's saying here. We have a Kremlin asset in the White House who is destroying our economy, imposing draconian anti-immigration policies, stacking the Supreme Court with dangerous right-wing extremists, and turning this country into The Handmaid's Tale. Republicans can seize on an "angry mob" mantra, but what I see are patriotic members of the progressive / libertarian alliance who are entirely justified in protesting this illegitimate government.

    #StillWithHer

  • Just Say'n||

    I think Republicans "pounced" on that talking point. They haven't "seized" just yet. Fake News

  • BYODB||

    I mean, it may very well be a talking point but it is an incredibly accurate talking point as well.

    Not that anyone should be surprised that a party that claims to value democracy over anything else has devolved into mobs. I mean, that's what democracy is and it's why, for example, the Senate wasn't decided by popular vote once upon a time.

    I'm not sure I can ever forgive the Democrats for making me defend Donald Trump. It's pathetic when he is the lesser evil.

  • Just Say'n||

    No, it's definitely true. I don't know how else to classify people who use intimidation and violence to make political points other than as a "mob"

  • BYODB||

    Well, going by the overwhelming majority of news outlets I think the proper labeling is 'mostly peaceful protestors'. As absurd as that doublespeak is, that's what I've heard these groups called. Over and over again, in fact.

  • Red Tony||

    By that logic, STEVE SMITH is a "mostly unaggressive sasquatch", seeing as his penis is the only aggressive part of him.

  • BYODB||

    STEVE SMITH HAVE OTHER PARTS?!

  • Gilbert Martin||

    I would say this parody is over the top but it seems that is becoming increasingly impossible to outdo the real thing.

  • Don't look at me!||

    Yes, much better. A-

  • BYODB||

    They don't call it 'Poe's Suggestion', after all.

  • Libertymike||

    #Betoisacreep

  • CE||

    You forgot to blame the antiquated Electoral College.

  • LarryA||

    illegitimate government

    So the Mainstream Media had it absolutely right. Just before the 2016 election night they predicted that the country would end up in chaos, because the losers weren't going to accept the results.

  • Weigel's Cock Ring||

    "Civility": cold-bloodedly murdering those who threaten your power (like Seth Rich for example).

  • NoVaNick||

    Most sociopaths come across as extremely civil, before they slit your throat. Ted Bundy and the Boston Strangler were known for their charm and politeness.

  • sarcasmic||

    Wait a sec. Is this article proposing a civil union between Republicans and Democrats?

  • Just Say'n||

    Well, Democrats support a marriage between the two, but Republicans insist that a civil union would be better.

  • sarcasmic||

    Could always change the definition of marriage.

  • Just Say'n||

    Why even define it? The Greens just want to keep things casual. The LP, under Sarwark's leadership, are saying "both sides have fair points" and are expected to join in with whichever idea become more popular in time.

  • TuIpa||

    It's been done.

  • sarcasmic||

    Does that mean marriage can mean Republicans and Democrats, as well as Republicans and Republicans, and Democrats and Democrats?

    What if they want a cake?

  • Dillinger||

    poison. stick in some poison.

  • TuIpa||

    They all want cake.

  • Just Say'n||

    Personally, I prefer pie

    Not that there's anything wrong with people preferring cake. To each his own

  • Uncle Jay||

    Now all you have to do is find a baker willing to bake the wedding cake.

  • JonBlack||

    This myopic cunt has been spent every single moment since her humiliating defeat making it abundantly clear that America made the right- albeit horrifying- choice when they made her a historical laughingstock.

    Thanks Hillary, you could have just been the dolt who lost to Trump, but you've become so much more.

  • CGN||

    How funny and tragic that Hillary's "you cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about" statement is an EXACT definition of the Democratic Party in general, and her specifically. Praise GOD that this dolt of a woman did not become our president. The only things Hillary has (somewhat) successfully run is a crooked law firm (Rose Law) a crooked foundation (The Clinton Foundation) and crooked campaign (hers). I can't WAIT until this horrid, wicked, stupid, arrogant cunt of a woman is six feet under.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    The only things Hillary has (somewhat) successfully run is a crooked law firm (Rose Law) a crooked foundation (The Clinton Foundation) and crooked campaign (hers).

    She didn't even do the last one properly--the woman was beaten twice by a first-term Senator with hardly any political experience, and a real estate huckster/reality TV show star who was one of the most depised candidates in the nation's history.

  • JeffreyL||

    I think you are short changing Former President Obama. As an Illinois resident, i can regale you with every tuff bill that went through the Illinois Senate in which the former president, with steele in his veins was able to bring forth the will to vote PRESENT.

    You got that right, not no or yes for those tuff decisions in the Illinois legislature. he voted PRESENT.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Of course. If he had a voting record, it could be attacked.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    And all that while being married to an actual two-term President whose considered one of the best politicians in recent memory.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    Yeah, by democrats.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Hey, he wasn't called Slick Willie because of his pomade.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I thought that was related to his pre anal sex application of Astroglyde.

  • SchillMcGuffin||

    Trump may be comically lacking in self-awareness, but Clinton gives him a run for his money in her own drearily self-righteous way.

    Honestly, I think he's more self-aware than she is. I think a lot of his tone-deafness is calculated to demonstrate his strength and not needing to care about the feelings of others -- it's swagger in the service of "hardball" negotiating, or what I believe has aptly been compared to "pickup artist" tactics. He's convinced enough of his own greatness that the substance of what he's saying is basically irrelevant to him -- What's important is that he's saying it. Confidently.

    It's an interesting display of the difference between egotism and self-righteousness, and I think as the latter she's more sincerely clueless. It's obviously the primary thing that cost her the election.

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

  • Mickey Rat||

    Hillary feels no necessity put on the mask anymore.

    What is interesting is the utter lack of awareness of that Left's program is uncomfortable at best with the limiting norms of republican governance. The progressives by definition attack the existing way of life of the country.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Hillary never put on a mask. Her inflated sense of herself has been utterly transparent from the moment she emerged on the national stage in 1992. She really does believe she's the smartest person in the room, that her successes have been due to her own talents rather than the press and men with greater abilities snowplowing the political roads for her, and that her failures are ultimately the fault of others rather than herself. At least Trump, prior to Twitter, at least, displayed enough self-awareness to acknowledge that he contributed to his own fuckups.

    Hillary's basically the George Armstrong Custer of the modern American political class, except I doubt Bill will be spending his widower years attempting to artificially inflate Hillary's reputation and accomplishments once her health issues and drinking habits finally do her in.

    .

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    ""that her successes have been due to her own talents"'

    Didn't Obama tell her she didn't build that?

  • Jerryskids||

    Poor old Hillary pining for the days when bipartisanship meant the GOP going along with whatever collectivist schemes the Dems wanted to push, just perhaps not quite so far so fast. Now those evil bastards want to not only slow down but perhaps even reverse the growth of the nanny state they all worked so hard to build? Sheer madness!

  • Mickey Rat||

    She is still upset that she in no small part provided the motivation for the GOP not eternally conceding Congress to the Dems with her heavy handed health insurance proposal.

  • Echo Chamber||

    "those evil bastards want to not only slow down but perhaps even reverse the growth of the nanny state"

    Citation needed. Spending still appears to be out of control

  • Dillinger||

    >>> the Republicans are "an ideological party that is driven by the lust for power."

    fuck you both.

  • Curt||

    "fuck you both"

    Who and who? I presume one is HRC. Fair enough... fuck her. Who is the other target for fucking?

  • Just Say'n||

    Tyra Banks?

    She's still hot

  • Dillinger||

    definite fun there.

  • Just Say'n||

    Double D fun

  • Nwallins||

    Wendy Williams

  • Curt||

    Are they actually two different people? I figured it was a Tyler Durden kind of thing. When gets her hair and makeup right, she's called Tyra. When she looks like a trainwreck, she's called Wendy.

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    I would like to see her and Kate Upton go down on each other.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    Live, not Pay Per View

  • Last of the Shitlords||

    At my place, with me there.

  • Dillinger||

    the Republicans {evil music}

  • Curt||

    No argument there. Wasn't much context, so I thought maybe the other was Sullum (as if he was concurring with HRC). It seemed clear to me that he was mocking her.

  • BYODB||

    The obvious irony being that a conservative on the Supreme Court, not that I think The Kavinator is a very good one, means that they would actually believe in limits on government power whereas appointments of far left political operatives like Kagan, well, they rule the way they feel, man. Or in her case, they get to rule on the constitutionality of legislation they helped push through Congress.

    I'm sure Democrats truly care about conflicts of interest, right? That right there was an example of how improbable it is that a Justice will be impeached. No one cares.

  • Dillinger||

    >>>The obvious irony being that a conservative...

    I think we were fed lies re: "elected/appointed conservatives exist!"

    >>>means that they would actually believe in limits on government power

    right so this becomes like a non-irony (for lack of the correct term) because no elected/appointed *anything* believes in limits on government power.

  • BYODB||

    There appear to be a handful of 'real' conservatives in the Republican party, but they are vastly outnumbered. I would tend to agree that virtually no Supreme Court justices could be considered true conservatives, but then again there is no true Scotsman either I suppose.

  • Dillinger||

    >>>no true Scotsman

    exactly.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    Once they're back in power they they simply won't be civil. Subtly different from "can't" be civil.

  • NoVaNick||

    Part of me still believes that the Clintons got Trump to run, and run as a total jerk, to ensure that her heinousness would win. It backfired beautifully.

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    Whenever a Clinton runs for Pres, some political outsider (Trump, Perot) always jumps in with complaints about trade and immigration to cause problems for the GOP. They just miscalculated this one.

  • John C. Randolph||

    As I recall, Perot's position on trade was simple reciprocity.

    -jcr

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    Problem solved.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    There were DNC emails alluding to this.

  • Bubba Jones||

    They certainly supported him in the primary.

  • ||

    There were DNC emails alluding to this.

    ^ This. As it turns out, all that "free air time" CNN was giving Trump that Democrat voters were complaining about was doled out at the behest of John Podesta. They clearly thought winning against Trump would be a virtual certainty.

  • Don't look at me!||

    IT WA HER TURN!

  • Just Say'n||

    And she was a wonderful public servant

  • BYODB||


    They clearly thought winning against Trump would be a virtual certainty.

    And, in fairness to them, pretty much everyone agreed with them until the unthinkable happened. Hell, I agreed with them.

    Of course, after 8 years of Obama it was a near certainty that any Republican would win. Obama was a lot more controversial than even Trump is in a whole lot of ways. For all of Trumps many, many flaws he does not appear to want to 'fundamentally change' America.

    I suppose one could say that the MAGA motto implies change, but specifically change to an older model which is pretty darn conservative even while Trump is no conservative.

  • ||

    And, in fairness to them, pretty much everyone agreed with them until the unthinkable happened. Hell, I agreed with them.

    Because it seemed obvious, and in fairness Trump's "victory" was about as narrow and unlikely as it could possibly have been. He had to flip heads many times in a row and did, contrary to all expectation (even his own, I think).

    But the classicist in me can't help but note the irony in Clinton's hubris - rather than playing it safe and making double-plus sure she had the Mid-West locked in, she played the Hare to Trump's Tortoise and spent the final weeks trying to flip red states rather than confirm blue states.

    They thought they could engineer a victory, but the Fates said "Nuh-uh."

  • Rat on a train||

    They thought they could run up the score. I recall debate about how much over 300 she would get.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    I know it seems that way, but then... He achieved that victory being out spent 2-1, and he DID have further resources he could have thrown into the campaign.

    A canny businessman doesn't pay more than it costs to get what he's buying. A politician always pays everything he's got, because it's other people's money, so, why not?

    I'm not ruling out that he spent half as much as Hillary because he had a pretty good idea that he could win spending half as much.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Of course, after 8 years of Obama it was a near certainty that any Republican would win

    I wouldn't say that. Biden would have had an excellent chance to win if he had run, but he let himself get talked out of it by Hillary and her cronies.

  • BYODB||

    I mean on a purely historical basis that's the clear pattern. It's incredibly rare for a President to be followed by another President from the same party, especially if they're a 2 term President. Not impossible, just improbable.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    Other dem candidates knew the fix was in so they didn't bother to enter the primary.

    The republicans had a diverse group in the primary. The dems had the hag and an old guy that just didn't want to believe the fix was in.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    I should say potential candidates.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    I think he knew that the fix was in. He was just positioning himself to be the only available alternative if she somehow managed to implode. You know, if Comey had ethics, or she had a stroke, or something like that.

  • A Thinking Mind||

    I do feel like this has been covered. Almost any Democrat besides Hillary would have beaten Trump. Almost any other Republican would have crushed Hillary. Both candidates were horrible and easily punished.

    It turns out that, policy wise, Trump has been much more positive than I could have anticipated, but he's still problematic in too many ways to ever earn my vote. I just hope that Libertarians can find a better libertarian candidate than Gary Johnson.

  • Quo Usque Tandem||

    Like a theme from a Greek tragedy. At what point might she have decided to stop being a total cunt in order to avoid the final fiasco? That would be theater worth paying for.

  • ||

    Is it a sign that two of us compare her to Greek tragedy within a minute of one another? Will we see headlines tomorrow morning that Hillary, Bill, Chelsea, the Podestas, Sidney Blumenthal and George Stephanopolous are all dead in a bizarre tangle of murders and suicides?

  • Tom Bombadil||

    Is this the proper time to note that statistically speaking, Winter is coming for Hillary?

  • ||

    Winter is coming for Hillary?

    You know, people keep saying winter is coming, but I'm starting to not believe them.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    Her followers will applaud the call to be uncivil, while complaining about the other team's incivility.

  • Just Say'n||

    You don't know that Suderman is going to say that.

  • DWB||

    "You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about,"

    EXACTLY why I opposed Obama!

    But that's different ... for some reason ... some "ism" I guess.

  • simbatia||

    This woman is absolutely pathetic. It's cringe inducing to watch her make a fool of herself.

  • Ken Shultz||

    She's been inducing cringes since before Bill got into the White House. At some point, it becomes a Monty Python joke.

    It's more like "The Aristocrats" joke, only for real. In this version, you list all the underhanded and crooked things she's done, and at the end, when the producer asks, "What do you call the act?", the punch line is, "The Clintons!"

  • Zeb||

    My favorite was when she spoke with a southern accent during Bill's first presidential campaign.

  • Ken Shultz||

    The tu quoque is sure to get neck deep in this thread (if it isn't already). I'd like to point out that even if Donald Trump is a shithead, that doesn't mean Hillary Clinton isn't also a shithead.

    In fact, Hillary Clinton was one of the key progenitors of the permanent campaign, and the only reason she didn't throw her "vast, right wing conspiracy" theories out on Twitter is because Twitter didn't exist back then.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwtkorQKGFE

    Oh, and one other thing? Hillary Clinton is a spousal abuser.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com.....etailed-n/

  • Colossal Douchebag||

    I'd like to point out that even if Donald Trump is a shithead, that doesn't mean Hillary Clinton isn't also a shithead.

    Really going out on a limb there.

  • An Innocent Man||

    Remember, these are the people that Reason is all-in on.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Sullum and Doherty are still legit libertarians.

    They got snowed in by the blizzard; they're not the blizzard itself.

  • Cynical Asshole||

    Maybe Heitkamp is just a nicer person than Clinton

    That's pretty much a given.

  • Eddy||

    Andrew Dice Clay is a nicer person than Clinton.

  • Just Say'n||

    Hitler?

  • Just Say'n||

    Damn it. I misread. I thought we were guessing: "You know who else was nicer than Hillary?"

  • Don't look at me!||

    John Wayne Gacey?

  • Dillinger||

    not a bad painter

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    And yet it's still a fine response.

  • Eddy||

    Hasn't Hillary read the Atlantic? They're supposed to soft-pedal the insane PC stuff - at least until the election.

  • Jeep's Blues||

    I find it ironic how narcissism seems only to be attributed to Mr. Trump as if he is the sole owner of the trait. With their sense of omnipotence both Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Obama could offer a quality run in pounds per square inch to Mr. Trump's own self-inflated balloon.

  • NoVaNick||

    Say what you want about Trump-he has done more to help others than these other two combined. Either through his show, or charity events. Although he lacks taste, you could say that his investing in NYC real estate helped turn the city around from the shithole it had become in the 1970s and early 80s. Clinton and Obama have been concerned primarily with advancing their own political careers.

  • Jeep's Blues||

    I don't oppose Mr. Trump. He's come along as an antidote to a growing social and political two-party virus at the right time imo. His grandiosity is incidental and not unique.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    I don't know if you can possibly become a federal politician without a bit of a god complex.

  • Jeep's Blues||

    I generally agree. At the national level narcissism is a practical requirement.

  • GlenchristLaw||

    The Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy unavailable for comment...

  • Just Say'n||

    No. We're commenting up thread

  • Mickey Rat||

    Can you call openly opposing someone's quest for power a conspiracy?

  • Gilbert Martin||

    Let's not forget that before the election results when the Dem's thought that Hillary had it in the bag, they were blathering about how the Trump supporters would not accept the election results and might engage in violent acts and nasty demonstrations.

    And when Hillary lost their side proceeded to do exactly that.

  • Ken Shultz||

    The Democrats are still the only ones who care about civility, and if you don't understand that, then you're just a stupid, white, uneducated, racist, homophobic, redneck, rape apologist.

  • NoVaNick||

    Yes-I used to tag along to dem events with a woman I dated some years back, They all cursed, chain smoked, and drank like sailors.

  • geo1113||

    At least they had some good qualities.

  • General_Tso||

    Take that back! Sailors have earned their grog.

  • Gilbert Martin||

    You left out deplorable.

  • Eddy||

    Projection is easy to justify - "look, I know that in a similar situation I'd do stuff like that, and *I'm* wonderful and good. So if even wonderful and good people like me would violently protest an election result they don't like, how much more would bad people be willing to act that way!"

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    ""And when Hillary lost their side proceeded to do exactly that.""

    And the Obama admin had a "plan" if Trump didn't concede the election. Which I found to be weird as if Trump was going to try to force his way on the swearing in ceremony or something.

  • Rat on a train||

    It isn't so weird if you recall all the ways they tried to stop Trump.

    Stop states from certifying electors.
    Lobby for unfaithful electors (the Colin Powell plan).
    Lobby Congress to reject the electoral vote.
    Rosie O'donnell even called for marshall law.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    Yeah, I guess so.

    But what did they think Trump could do? That's what I found weird. It's not like Trump had any real recourse if he did lose once the votes were certified. Perhaps they were afraid he would pull a Gore?

  • No Longer Amused||

    Honestly, that's the only time they even pretended to be civil.

  • Mickey Rat||

    It has been almost two years and she still has not finished melting.

  • Just Say'n||

    Hold her dentures, grandma is ready to rumble!

  • Eddy||

    I would hope that civility isn't defined as tea-sipping, pinkie-raising camaraderie in which "bipartisan" laws get cooked up to oppress the people.

    I would define civility as *avoiding* certain bad behavior - like stalking and screaming at people in elevators, beating people with bike locks, disrupting speeches, smearing people with dubious allegations, and behavior of similar nature.

  • Just Say'n||

    "Bipartisanship" means "get the lube"

  • A Thinking Mind||

    Hey, those were brave women, berating a man who did nothing wrong in the elevator while a nation cheered them on, wielding their own trauma like a club.

  • Weigel's Cock Ring||

    Just out of curiosity, how is that Seth Rich murder investigation coming along anyway? Do the authorities have any big leads on who that dastardly perp might be yet?

  • Just Say'n||

    I want to know why Ted Cruz's dad killed JFK.

    Seriously, if we're going to have the FBI investigated conspiracy theories like what "boofing" means, let's at least have them investigate a fun one.

  • BYODB||

    Maybe we can send some intrepid FBI investigators to the moon? I hear that first landing might have been faked.

  • Gilbert Martin||

    We need a special counsel for that.

    Also to while they're on the moon they can determine whether its' really made of green cheese or not.

  • geo1113||

    All Hillary is saying is that once the Democrats are back in power it is ok for Republicans to shoot Congressional members when they are playing ball.

  • Hank Phillips||

    = )

  • Longtobefree||

    "You cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for, what you care about,"

    I will get a t-shirt with that on it so I can scream at democrats in restaurants and burn down building at universities that do not have due process.

  • Hank Phillips||

    Uh... nice writing and all. But surely Jacob is old enough to realize that--to people who value the initiation of harmful and deadly force WAY more than silly chimeras like flourishing, happiness and freedom--Trump and Hillary's parties are being as peaceful and rational as is humanly possible. By their lights that's simply the way things are.

  • Just Say'n||

    I understand that Hillary is looking to re-brand herself for the 2100 presidential race, since she is one of the un-dead immortals, but the tough guy persona is not her fit. I suggest that she adopt a Hispanic surname like "O'Rourke" and start blasting her opponents for their "white privilege".

    If progressives are willing to believe that Elizabeth Warren is Native American, why wouldn't they accept that Hillary underwent a racial awakening and reconnected with her 1% Hispanic lineage? Why would anyone question that other than the fact that they're racist? Huh, bigot?

  • Brian||

    WHY DO YOU MAKE ME SO MAD THAT I GO OFF UPSIDE YOUR HEAD? I DON'T WANT TO HIT YOU!

  • Tony||

    But what does Kanye think?

    Republicans are a joke. They were a joke long before Trump the clown showed up to attempt to make it obvious to everyone.

  • sarcasmic||

    More importantly, what does Taylor Swift think?

  • Just Say'n||

    I heard Kanye swore in the Oval Office. I wonder if Hillary agrees that that's the most crass thing that has ever occurred in the Oval Office

  • Just Say'n||

    What do you think Tony?

  • Tony||

    Nobody I know is making that argument. I'm certain Lyndon took out his alleged big Johnson a time or two.

    Kanye did the nation a service by making Trump look like the sane one in the room.

  • Just Say'n||

    MSNBC was just making that argument. Do you think Hillary would know anything about any other crass incidences that happened in the Oval Office more recently?

  • BYODB||


    MSNBC was just making that argument.


    Coincidence, or providence?

  • bvandyke||

    If Republicans are a joke and Trump makes them worse, how did they beat Mrs. Teflon Clinton? Seems to me, that makes her a much bigger joke. So much so that she lost.

  • Tony||

    ...

    the fucking Russians....

    and slaveowners from the 18th century

  • ||

    Did you know that one of the EC's early champions was Alexander Hamilton?

  • Tony||

    Did you know that some humans alive in the 21st century are capable of examining institutions and determining, with their own brainpower, whether they make any fucking sense whatsoever right now?

  • Red Tony||

    Past Me, I'm pretty sure we're not in that group.

  • ||

    Did you know that some humans alive in the 21st century are capable of examining institutions and determining, with their own brainpower, whether they make any fucking sense whatsoever right now?

    So what was the point of the comment about slaveowners from the 18th century?

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    Just a red herring because he doesn't know how to debate.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    ""and slaveowners from the 18th century"'

    No, the dead vote democrat.

    Why do you suppose Hillary gets a pass on calling a former high ranking member of the KKK a mentor?That's far more a support of racism than anything I've seen Trump do.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Who?!

  • ||

    Projection as usual. Who wants more power than her? Shit, has anyone watched her these past two years?

    I bet you she's the worst in private too.

    She's a cunt.

  • Alcibiades||

    According to Edward Klein's reportage she is and she is...

  • Alcibiades||

    Best ever summation of the Clintons is Kevin Williamson's (who I still think Reason should hire):

    "...the penicillin-resistant syphilitic strain of American politics"

  • buybuydandavis||

    @KevinNR wrote of white working class communities:
    "The truth about these dysfunctional, downscale communities is that they deserve to die."
    #NeverTrumpers hate the peasants
    http://bit.ly/22kuT51

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    What will it take to undo the last two years and make this person president? Imagine the civility we could have had.

  • ThomasD||

    If civility is out of the question in that situation, peaceful and rational debate is impossible.

    There is absolutely nothing veiled about that threat. And, just to be clear, this message was just delivered by the person a major party last put at the top of their Presidential ticket. So anyone who asks when the next civil war will officially begin, tell them we already have an answer.

  • Alcibiades||

    Just be eternally grateful she hired a "wet behind the ears" wonk as her campaign manager and chose to ignore the advice of Billy boy, scoundrel, rogue and serial rapist that he is, but one the sharpest and willy political minds of the last 50-odd years and more...'cause if she hadn't she'd more than likely be president now.

  • C. S. P. Schofield||

    Only if President Bubba managed to get her to not insult all Trump's supporters. The way she had the DNC mug Sanders meant her own support would be luke warm in a lot of quarters, and the Deplorables were certain to get to the polls no matter what.

  • esteve7||

    Whenever I'm not sure on Trump, Hillary comes back to remind me how lucky we are to have him.

  • Alcibiades||

    ^ ^ ^ ^

    This

  • Tony||

    Think of the shrillness.

  • Sevo||

    As opposed to stealing the WH silverware? Selling political access for bribes? Renting out the Lincoln bedroom?

  • lap83||

    I don't like the accompanying picture, it interferes with my fantasy of her being interviewed in a strait jacket right before the nurse brings her meds and they cart her away to the padded cell

  • Uncle Jay||

    Violence is to the left as water is to fish.

  • Heraclitus||

    Read the Wonkette's analysis. Way better than Sullum's. https://www.wonkette.com/

  • ||

    Like fingernails on the slate of the mind.

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    Read the Wonkette's analysis.

    Is that ho-bag Ana Marie Cox still writing for them?

  • Rob Misek||

    People who are wrong don't want to be civil or engage in rational debate.

    What Clinton wants is to be in charge of the propaganda machine and censorship of free speech.

  • Deconstructed Potato||

    Cry havoc! And let slip the dogs of partisan rancor!

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    To rule, or not to rule....Fuck it, it's my turn!

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    "you cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for."

    Wait until she finds out about the Libertarian party.

  • Truthteller1||

    Any objective analysis would reflect that the democrats are the uncivil party, and it isn't even close. Clinton is a borderline sociopath, and embarrassingly irrelevant.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    Borderline???? She'd throw her grandchild into a volcano for an extra electoral vote.

  • buybuydandavis||

    After she had sucked the marrow from her bones

  • CE||

    Civilization ends when people stop acting civilized.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    "you cannot be civil with a political party that wants to destroy what you stand for."

    Yet thinks she can force a peace agreement between the Israelis and Hamas.

  • walkaway_nov6||

    I had a response but then I thought it better to follow the lead of one of your own...DiNiro.

    Fuck Hillary!

  • Tionico||

    Silly wench. Democrats are OUT of power BECAUSE they cannot be civil. And as their incivility continues to increase, their chance of returning to power again maintains an inverse course.

  • Fat Hubie||

    Will take the lack of civility over whatever she "stand for" every time! It's clear that all they want is power and that they intent to misuse it...

  • Al Bendova||

    Brought to you by the same politicians that say we don't need guns to protect ourselves.

  • GoatOnABoat||

    When have democrats ever been civil?

  • Salero21||

    I call her Hellary for many reasons, and this is one of them.

  • Mark P||

    What does Hillary stand for other than dishonesty, power lust and corruption? With Hillary, civility is only a front: behind the scenes, she has always been committed to the evil dictim, the end justifies the means.

  • Darth Soros||

    "Don't make me Arkancide you, Republicans!"

  • buybuydandavis||

    "since she denies the possibility that people may sincerely disagree with her for what they take to be good reasons and may therefore think she is trying to destroy what they stand for. "

    This has been the Leftist position for decades.

  • Leather Sewing Machines||

    Yeah, a canny businessman doesn't pay more than it costs to get what he's buying. A politician always pays everything he's got, because it's other people's money?

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