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Paul Manafort Convicted of 8 Bank and Tax Fraud Charges; Mistrial on 10 Other Charges

Former Trump campaign chairman likely heading to prison.

Paul ManafortJonathan Ernst/REUTERS/NewscomPaul Manafort, the former chairman of President Donald Trump's 2016 campaign and a veteran dweller of the D.C. "swamp" culture Trump allegedly detests, has been found guilty of eight out of 18 charges related to tax evasion and bank fraud. But the jury could not reach a conclusion on the remaining 10 and the judge has ordered a mistrial on those remaining charges.

In October 2017, Manafort became first person indicted by FBI Special Counsel Robert S. Mueller as part of a larger investigation of Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election. Manafort used more than 30 overseas bank accounts to manipulate more than $60 million in income, disguising it in order to keep from having to pay taxes.

Jurors reached agreement that Manafort was guilty of five charges of tax fraud, two counts of bank fraud, and one charge of failing to report a foreign bank account.

Though Manafort has ties to Ukraine and Russian interests, none of the charges against him have anything to do with allegations that Russian nationals attempted to influence the election with secret social media buys or by hacking into voting systems or the Democratic National Committee's communications.

Instead, Manafort was accused of making millions off his ties to a Russia-friendly former Ukrianian president and of concealing his lobbying income from the United States government in order to evade taxes. Then, when the revenue stream dried up—the Ukrainian president was removed from office and fled to Russia—Manafort secured new bank loans by inflating his income and concealing his debts. He was later hit with new charges of obstruction (and had his bail revoked) for allegedly contacting and attempting to influence the testimony of two potential witnesses.

In this trial, he faced 18 counts of tax evasion and bank fraud. In a second trial, scheduled for September, he will face charges of money laundering, failing to register as a foreign agent, and lying to the Justice Department about his Ukraine lobbying.

On a basic level, this is a familiar story about corruption and influence-peddling, one that proves the old trope that the cover-up is worse than the crime. Media coverage of the trial has focused largely on Manafort's extravagant spending habits—ostrich leather bomber jackets!—because it illustrates why he went to such great lengths to hide his income.

While there have been guilty pleas (George Papadopoulos, Michael Flynn) of people in Trump's orbit, Manafort is the first to be prosecuted and found guilty by Mueller's team.

So what does the first actual conviction of somebody connected to Trump's team means for Trump and Mueller's broader investigation?

This is not about Trump. The behavior leading to Manafort's indictment preceded his role in Trump's campaign by several years. The FBI had previously interviewed and investigated Manafort, and Mueller essentially "inherited" this ongoing investigation when he took on the role of special counsel. After reporters revealed Manafort's secret work and payments from Ukraine's former president, Manafort left Trump's campaign. Trump has insisted repeatedly that there was "no collusion" between him and Russia, and that Manafort's crimes have nothing to do with the Trump campaign. This conviction does not undermine either claim.

While the timeline for Manafort's illegal behavior does allegedly extend up to—and extend beyond—the time he worked for Trump, the crimes he's been convicted of are not related to the presidential campaign. Thus, Manafort's conviction on these charges is not an obvious precursor to impeachment, or of any other sort of charges against Trump. Though some will certainly try to make the case that it should be; Manafort was, after all, part of the meeting in Trump Tower with Donald Trump Jr. and Jared Kushner, at which Russians offered incriminating information on Hillary Clinton's campaign.

This is about Trump. A paradox here: If you're willing to set aside the issue of whether Manafort's relationship to a Ukrainian president proves any sort of "collusion with the Russians," it's easier to be clear-headed about how Manafort implicates Trump.

Manafort is one of many, many folks with troubled backgrounds and histories of bad behavior who have worked with Trump and influenced his policy leanings. Trump's campaign and administration hava featured a parade of incompetent and embarrassing figures, and a high turnover rate. While many on the left are willing to believe any sort of accusation against Trump and the people around him with only the slightest of evidence—or no evidence at all—this is not the case with Manafort.

Manafort was bad news. Those of us who care little about the highly politicized fight over "collusion," or who take a dim view of the absurd idea that Russian social media buys made people vote for Trump, should still recognize that Manafort representats a much more dangerous problem: Trump's terrible judgement. If we grant the president his innocence in any Russian meddling (and I actually do, based on current information), Manafort's participation in Trump's campaign will nevertheless taint the rest of his presidency. No amount of "Deep State" conspiracy complaints and screams of "Witch Hunt" can erase the reality that the former head of his campaign was financially beholden to a foreign power. Manafort's conviction is not grounds for impeaching Trump, but Trump's record of poor judgment in his personnel decisions might—and frankly should—cause some people to think twice about re-electing him.

Manafort is "The Swamp." Trump campaigned on a promise to drain "the swamp," meaning the culture of corruption, cronyism, and self-dealing that causes the federal government to grow ever larger for the fiscal benefit of a select few. Yet Manafort has always been a clear and obvious veteran swamp-dweller, using his connections to lobby for policies that benefit special interests and pocketing the money. During the trial, prosecutors say one bank chief executive officer kept approving loans to Manafort that they otherwise would have likely rejected because he was hoping for a role within the Trump administration.

Manafort could face decades in prison just for these charges, essentially the rest of his life.

Photo Credit: Jonathan Ernst/REUTERS/Newscom

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  • Just Say'n||

    "Manafort is one of many, many folks with troubled backgrounds and histories of bad behavior who have worked with Trump and influenced his policy leanings. Trump's campaign and administration hava featured a parade of incompetent and embarrassing figures, and a high turnover rate. While many on the left are willing to believe any sort of accusation against Trump and the people around him with only the slightest of evidence—or no evidence at all—this is not the case with Manafort."

    Your publication pimped Russia fever dreams and now you're trying to distract like this was never what it was all about

  • John||

    It is all about Trump being around bad people. We never said Russia was involved.

    Talk about pathetic goalpost moving.

  • Just Say'n||

    It's beyond pathetic. It's ridiculous. We're all suppose to pretend know that Reason totally never bought into CIA talking points being parroted by partisans.

    www.reason.com/blog/2018/03/07.....p-election

  • Just Say'n||

    "It's a conspiracy theory that any of this was predicated on a Russia collusion conspiracy theory."

    - Reason a week from now

  • Just Say'n||

    "This was always about campaign finance violations. That was always Mueller's mandate."

  • Tony||

    Truth is truth.

  • ||

    No it isn't.

  • John Galt Jr||

    Right, Rudy.

  • Fancylad||

    "We never said Russia was involved"

    B-b-b-but Manafort was accused of making millions off his ties to a Russia-friendly former Ukrainian president.
    Sure, back when Viktor Yanukovych was president of Ukraine the US was pretty Russia friendly too. The Reset Button and all that. But it isn't treason when the Democrats do it.

  • John Galt Jr||

    Umm, Obama's Russian sanctions were tied to the Ukraine.
    https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/ukrainerussia/

    That's WHY Russia worked so hard for Trump's election ... as proven by Donald Jr's (dumbass) confession.

    Another excuse?

  • Just Say'n||

    This entire trail would have never have occurred if it weren't for the CIA talking points of Russia fever dreams and the appointment of a special counsel because of these fever dreams. The crimes that Manafort was convicted of occurred well before he joined the Trump campaign.

    And others who committed similar crimes, but worked for the other campaigns were offered immunity.

    www.cnn.com/2017/05/09/politic.....index.html

    www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/.....afort.html

  • BYODB||

    Well yeah, they are doubleplusgood folks.

  • Happy Chandler||

    Tony Podesta didn't work for any campaign in 2016.

  • Just Say'n||

    You're right. It was his brother which totally changes everything because Chandler Bing is a numb skull

  • Happy Chandler||

    John Podesta was not connected to the Podesta Group in 2016 or had anything to do with Tony's alleged crimes.

    So, other people who worked for campaigns, but didn't actually work for campaigns, but their brother did? I don't think that comes in the scope of Mueller's mandate.

  • Calidissident||

    Nobody other than Carlson has reported that Podesta was offered immunity, and Mueller referred a case involving him and others to the SDNY.

  • Just Say'n||

    Hmmm...maybe I'm wrong on that point then.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Without a citation, dont believe anything he asserts.

  • Calidissident||

  • loveconstitution1789||

    I Dont click links from sketchy people like you, that dont tell me what the link specifically is.

    If you dont know how to do that, I can explain it to you.

  • ||

    Actually, in my experience Cali doesn't bullshit. When you demand sources from him, he puts up - like he did here.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Thanks Calidissent I mean []=O

  • ||

    Thanks Calidissent I mean []=O

    You caught me! You are one super-duper perceptive guy!

  • Happy Chandler||

    http://freebeacon.com/politics.....osecutors/

    Happy?

    Although these were the guys who originally hired Fusion GPS, so can we trust them? Are they deep state?

  • Happy Chandler||

    http://www.google.com/search?q.....irefox-b-1

    Choose your source. Everything from Vox to Fox. No report yet from Lox News.

  • John Galt Jr||

    I Dont click links from sketchy people like you, that dont tell me what the link specifically is

    Translation: "If I close my eyes and block my ears, the entire universe disappears. Because all of reality exists, only if I choose to see it!"

    Trumpsters be in panic mode.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    I already knew that Trump would be pardoning any convictions for people that he felt got caught in the politial witch hunt.

  • John Galt Jr||

    We all know he's an authoritarian tyrant.
    Meanwhile, we have a jury, a grand jury, seven guilty parties and over 100 charges ... all proving that your "witch hunt" is as much in desperation as your "TDS."

    The Hillary probe was twice as long, found nothing, and Sessions says there's no evidence to re-open it.

    It's like a football game. 0:29 left in the game, you trail 87-0 and claim a victory.
    Repeatedly. After every play.

  • JoeBlow123||

    John Galt Jr, but they have been charged with stuff I am fairly sure happens all the time in DC and NYC. None of this Russia collusion stuff, just run of the mill scumbaggery.

    It is like turning over a rock and being surprised beetles and roaches and bugs are there.

  • John Galt Jr||

    Manafort's second trial begins in a few weeks.
    Trump (and his son) have already confessed to collusion
    Giuliani says Trump "directed" Cohen to buy off Stormy Daniels. If Cohen can add even a sliver of proof, Trump would be impeached within days. And convicted within a month.

    I did indeed turn over a rock. It was in the Oval Office. There was indeed a cockroach there.
    A strangely colored orange cockroach, How did you know I did that?

  • Tony||

    Yes. Talking points did this. You're gonna get to the bottom of this, dammit.

  • JoeBlow123||

    Manafort is a scum bag as is Trump but this all has the appearance of a slow motion coup. It is hard to escape the conclusion our judicial system has not been weaponized by both sides to score kills whether it is Benghazi or this.

    Unfortunate. Our elected officials are doing their darndest to discredit democracy. Or maybe our politicians really are such incredible scumbags that it is impossible to escape scandal.

  • Libertymike||

    The last couple of days, several hosts and guests on MSNBC and CNN shows have opined that Trump is dirty, in part, because of his mentor, Roy Cohn, who, of course, was Joe McCarthy's right hand man.

    Do you think that any of the hosts or guests asked, "do you know who else worked for Joe McCarthy?"

  • Mickey Rat||

    He was a SAINT!

  • Libertymike||

    Joe or the who else who worked for him? They were both Catholic.

  • Just Say'n||

    Bobby Kennedy.....er....I mean Hitler?

  • Fats of Fury||

    His left hand man.

  • John Galt Jr||

    Bobby Kennedy was an ASSISTANT counsel, to a COMMITTEE chaired by McCarthy.
    He quit when McCarthy went bat-shit crazy, Cohn, then McCarthy's other counsel, stayed and defended McCarthy.
    No comparison. Even shameful. Trump has been bat-shit crazy for decades.

    Next hysteria?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    It upsets you that Trump is the best president in over 100 years.

  • John Galt Jr||

    Next hysteria?

    It upsets you that Trump is the best president in over 100 years.

    AND a diversion!

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    ""Yet Manafort has always been a clear and obvious veteran swamp-dweller, using his connections to lobby for policies that benefit special interests and pocketing the money. ""

    Sounds like standard DC work.

  • Dillinger||

    >>>Manafort's participation in Trump's campaign will nevertheless taint the rest of his presidency.

    snore

  • ||

    In one sense, it's true in that in the public mind, even in the pages of Reason, Paul Manafort will forever be defined by the ten weeks he spent as Trump's campaign manager, and his (much closer) association with lots of other political figures in both parties will not stain any of those people in any way.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    No he wont.

    Most Americans could care less about fever dream targets of the Lefties.

    The majority that will get Trump re-elected already know that Manafort was convicted for conduct before joining Trump's campaign. The other people voting for Trump will forget Manafort next week.

    That is how news cycles work. Its a double edged sword. The media makes big deals about things for two weeks and they might get a win. Since they move on to something else in two weeks, nobody remembers that tiny win.

    Trump has been wracking up the wins because the media gets fixated on meaningless tweets or Russian fever dreams.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Manafort will be tried again, next month, with respect to different conduct.

    More important, Manafort swung and missed with his first trial, and is positioned to spend all or most of his remaining life in prison unless he arranges leniency.

    How he might arrange that leniency seems likely to generate entertainment for some people and heartburn for others.

  • John Galt Jr||

    They're running ij circles, crashing into walls, in sheer desperation.
    It's fun to watch them drown in their own spittle.

  • Sevo||

    John Galt Jr|8.21.18 @ 9:02PM|#
    "They're running ij circles, crashing into walls, in sheer desperation.
    It's fun to watch them drown in their own spittle."

    Yes, you, that asshole fake rev, Tony and several other are doing that and worse, and it is amusing.
    You LOST, loser. Grow up and get over it.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Next month? Perfect. He will be acqutitted, convicted or have a hung jury just ime to be pardoned by Trump. He will have dpne 6 months in jail.

    Then mueller is fired. Rosenstein will be fired.

    The the GOP will clean up in election 2018.

    Lefty tear collection will require more barrels than I currently have in storage.

  • John Galt Jr||

    You posted that several hours after being proven wrong.

    Again: "They're running ij circles, crashing into walls, in sheer desperation."

  • sarcasmic||

    I'm getting dizzy just thinking about how the Trumptards (you know what you are) are gonna spin this one.

  • Just Say'n||

    Clearly they should be satisfied that CIA talking points that assured us of Russian collusion totally materialized

  • Just Say'n||

    Oh wait, we're suppose to pretend like this had nothing to do with Russia fever dreams now that they can't prove the ridiculous notion to begin with. Let's also ignore the fact that Mueller, the special counsel specifically appointed to uncover such collusion, was prosecuting the case.

    Carry on and enjoy some more CIA talking points

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    If only prosecutors could take another crack at Manafort, in a context more closely related to the Russian issues . . .

  • John Galt Jr||

    Like in a few weeks, THIS conviction will force Manafort to flip on the Russian stuff next month.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Hes going to trial dum dum. As someone explained to you months ago, if you go to trial you aint cooperating with mueller. Manafort is already being threatened with life for 8 convictions. Whats another 20 convictions? Who cares.

    Manafort knows something you dont. Trump will pardon anyone who wrecks the Lefties and makes them look bad. Cohen is taking a plea and not talking. Manafort is going to trial and not talking.

    The goal was to get all mueller suspects thru their cases by election 2018, so Trump could fire mueller and rosenstein to rally ex-Democrats to vote republican in election 2018.

  • John Galt Jr||

    Hes going to trial dum dum.

    (snort) The trial is over.
    His conviction -- that you ridiculed -- was announced five hours before this, your latest collosal fuckup

  • Fancylad||

    *Bold text yelling, all-caps*
    Guess who has another sock.

  • John Galt Jr||

    (More self-defense)

    Hes going to trial dum dum.
    His conviction -- that you ridiculed -- was announced five hours before this, your latest collosal fuckup
    *Bold text yelling, all-caps*

    Self-defense. Personal attack. Would you also whine if a rape victim screamed for police?
    And ridicule, justly deserved. (Note that I supported my argument on his flatant moral hypocrisy)

    1) This too is ridicule.
    2) Learn what all caps means. HERE'S A CLUE

  • Calidissident||

    We know for a fact that Trump's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager attempted to collude with someone they were told was acting on behalf of the Russian government as part of its campaign to help Trump get elected. Regardless of what came of that meeting or anything else, that demonstrates intent of multiple key figures close to Trump, so it's kind of baffling that you think the notion is inherently absurd or that the Trump campaign looks good based on what has come out thus far. That's not even getting into Roger Stone by his own admission being in communication with Guccifer 2.0 (aka the GRU) while they were carrying out a hacking operation of the opposing campaign.

    If you set aside kneejerk contrarianism towards anything the intelligence community says, you can acknowledge that the intelligence agencies do a lot of bad shit and shouldn't be trusted blindly, and also realize that this doesn't automatically mean Trump or his associates are innocent of colluding or other wrongdoing. That's apparently a position too nuanced and complicated for many people.

  • Just Say'n||

    So you're equating accusations and suspicious actions with "proof". You're libertarian-y af.

    It's amazing that it's so obvious and yet the entire media, FBI, Congress, and a special counsel can't, you know, prove anything.

  • Rich||

    Obviously they're just waiting for the right most dramatic moment to announce the proof.

  • Calidissident||

    What accusations? Trump Jr. released emails himself that showed that he (along with Kushner and Manafort) were willing to meet with someone who they believed to be a Russian government attorney offering them damaging info on Clinton as part of the Russian government's campaign to help get Trump elected. That is pretty clearcut proof of willingness to collude on their part.

    I never said anyone should get convicted based on suspicious actions, that's what an investigation is for You seem to think that because no one has as of now been charged for acts involving collusion that this must mean no one did anything wrong. That's not exactly how investigations work, and the Mueller investigation isn't moving slower than past special counsel investigations.

    I don't know whether there was actual, successful direct collusion with the Trump campaign and Russia. But I do think it's abundantly clear based on public knowledge that the Trump campaign was open to and supportive of Russian assistance, so it shouldn't be treated as a ridiculous notion that it may have happened.

  • Just Say'n||

    LOL

  • Calidissident||

    Let me know when you have an actual argument beyond "hurr durr you love the CIA!"

  • Rich||

    I do think it's abundantly clear based on public knowledge that the Trump campaign was open to and supportive of Russian assistance, so it shouldn't be treated as a ridiculous notion that it may have happened.

    Beautiful.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Cali: The 'no proof' Lefties at it again.

  • Calidissident||

    Yeah, Trump's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager take a meeting to get dirt on Clinton from someone who they were told was acting as part of the Russian government's campaign to get Trump elected, and the conclusion to draw is that it's hysterical nonsense to think the Trump campaign may have colluded with Russia. Totally makes sense.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Was his name Steele, a British spy, that was trying to influence the election?

  • Calidissident||

    The fact that instead of actually rebutting the argument you cry "But Hillary!" isn't exactly a sign that my opinion about the Trump campaign is ridiculous..

  • Happy Chandler||

    Steele was hired and paid for his work. If you're paid fair value, it's not a contribution.

    Al Gore's aide was given the Bush debate prep files. He went straight to the FBI with it because it was illegal.

    Trump's campaign was offered dirt as part of the Russian government's attempts to aid them in the election, also illegal. They lied about it. Then they lied about the lies.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    You Lefties crack me.

    Trump pardoning Manafort will be so sweet.

  • Sevo||

    Calidissident|8.21.18 @ 5:45PM|#
    "What accusations? Trump Jr. released emails himself that showed that he (along with Kushner and Manafort) were willing to meet with someone who they believed to be a Russian government attorney offering them damaging info on Clinton as part of the Russian government's campaign to help get Trump elected. That is pretty clearcut proof of willingness to collude on their part."

    You left out Elvis' alien love child and that meeting in Uruguay in '56.

  • John Galt Jr||

    LAME.. Don Jr's email invitation SAID it was the Russian government wanting to help Trump
    That is conspiracy. Period. By intent. CONFESSED!
    (Both Dobalds Sr and Jr are kinda retarded)

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Poor lefties crying some more because Trump be winning.

  • John Galt Jr||

    Poor Trumptards. Always suffer severe denial. Have NO CLUE what PROOF of conspiracy is.
    *ridicule*

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    Let's ridicule hateconstitution1789 again. It's SO easy!

    Invitation to Donald Jr,
    The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

    This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.
    Source: Donald Trump Jr's Twitter feed!!!

    I feel obliged to confess. I intentionally baited you. And you bit!

    Poor lefties crying some more because Trump be winning.

    Trump is losing ... far worse than you just did.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    Additional

    This is Junior's actual confession. Click on the graphic of his Russian letter, "open in new tab" (larger and easier to read).

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Cali is willing to ruin political opponent's lives to get Hillary in office. SHE WAS ROBBED!

  • Calidissident||

    That Hillary card is getting worn out from all that use. I realize you don't really have anything else, but still.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    It will never wear out because you people want Hillary to be president.

    You cant help yourself.

  • Calidissident||

    How the fuck would Hillary even become president at this point? Jesus you are delusional.

  • ||

    How the fuck would Hillary even become president at this point?

    This is the guy who fully expects to see Nancy Pelosi and Richard Spencer together at rallies, because Nazis are Socialists.

    Don't get too worked up about him.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Calidissident|8.21.18 @ 6:28PM|#"How the fuck would Hillary even become president at this point?"

    Square = Circle|8.21.18 @ 6:31PM|#This is the guy who fully expects to see Nancy Pelosi and Richard Spencer together at rallies, because Nazis are Socialists.
    Don't get too worked up about him.

    So Pelosi is a Socialist Nazi, huh.

    Never knew.

  • ||

    So Pelosi is a Socialist Nazi, huh.

    Never knew.

    I'm literally quoting something you wrote a couple of weeks ago.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Liar. Quote it shitbird.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    You are the delusional nutcases who keep making excuses for Hillary.

    You're the nutcases that have think Trump will be impeached.

    Trump will be re-elected in 2020 and more government rollbacks will happen.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    Trump will be re-elected in 2020 and more government rollbacks will happen.

    Umm, like you saying that Cohen's verbal testimony was invented by he MSM!

    ROLLBACKS! Trump has already increased the debt by MORE than Obama's 8 years.
    Obama inherited the 2nd worst postwar recession, and gave Trump the longest recovery EVER for an incoming President.

    Pathetic, like your fairy tales.

  • Sidd Finch v2.01||

    We know for a fact that Trump's son, son-in-law, and campaign manager attempted to collude with someone they were told was acting on behalf of the Russian government as part of its campaign to help Trump get elected.

    How do you have such a nose for the day's most retarded talking points?

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    How do you have such a nose for the day's most retarded talking points?

    (lol)

    PROOF ... COLLUSION!
    And a totally psycho lie by Giuliani

    Russian invitation to Donald Jr.
    The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

    This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.
    Source: Donald Trump Jr's own Twitter feed!!!

    LOCK HIM UP!

  • loveconstitution1789||

    No spin.

    Less than half of the charges resulted in convictions. For a sure thing, that is very bad for Mueller and his team of Democrats. Those still have nothing to do with Trump.

    What will have to do with Trump is the forthcoming pardon and Mueller's dismissal as a failure.

  • Happy Chandler||

    Michael Cohen implicated Trump in his plea.

    You were confident that Manafort would be acquitted. I'm sure you're confident that Trump didn't do anything, and Mueller is making this up.

    The Russia fever dream already saved us from having a paid foreign agent as the NSA. That's already enough to make it worth it. Manafort spending his life in jail is also a benefit to the world. Crooked as they come.

    You're just pissed that, after decades, nobody has been able to find anything to pin on Hillary, when every Republican administration going back to...what...Ike have had large criminal elements to them.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    No he didnt.

    The media inserted their fever dream language in their news reports.

    When do you think Trump will pardon Cohen? Before or after the sentencing?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Less than half? Hahaha. I thought this was a forgone conclusion.

    Standby for Trump's pardon.

  • Just Say'n||

    What do you mean "less than half"? It's not a game of numbers. Some charges carry stiffer sentences

  • Happy Chandler||

    And zero percent acquittals!

  • loveconstitution1789||

    A hung jury is an acquittal. As in no conviction.

    Even acquittals dont mean innocent.

    Its all moot anyway. Trump will pardon him. Its just a matter of when. I suspect Trump will wait for the next trial for Manafort in DC and then pardon him on all charges he may be convicted of.

  • Happy Chandler||

    Acquittal means you can't be retried. Hung jury means you can.

    If Trump pardons Manafort, he'll be subpoenaed to talk about his actions. He won't be able to claim fifth amendment. If he doesn't talk, he'll be back in jail.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Wow, you Lefties are really clinging to some amateur legaleeze narrative that a Trump pardon means that Manafort or Cohen has to say anything to anyone.

    Back in jail for what? Not talking? Taking the 5th Amendment?

    You cannot go to jail for not talking. The government cannot compel you to talk to the government.

    I will add the 5A, since you dont know what you are talking about.
    Amendment V: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

  • Kenneth Kelly||

    Susan McDougal spent 18 months in jail for refusing to answer a grand jury's questions regarding whether or not Bill Clinton lied in his testimony during her Whitewater trial. Does that count as "going to jail for not talking"?

  • Calidissident||

    He missed the "be a witness against himself" part of the Fifth Amendment.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    How do you know what Coehn or Manafort will say?

    They will likely incriminate themselves, so the 5th Amendment applies.

    In fact, the 5th Amendment almost always applies since withholding evidence of a crime can be a crime itself.

    Its very telling that you demand that people do what the state wants while the state is clearly violating the protections of the Constitution. I knew you were a Lefty but had no idea you were so anti-Constitution.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Is that all there was to Susan McDougal case?

    She refused to speak at all and the judge threw her in prison for 18 months without a trial or anything?

    Nope. If you never say anything (anything), they cannot accuse you of refusing to testify.

    They cannot throw you in jail for refusing to swear in to testify. You just tell them that you cannot tell the truth and would thereby incriminate yourself and plead the 5th Amendment.

    People always give excuses as to why they cannot testify, blah blah. Just dont say anything ever and handwrite the 5th Amendment over and over and over.

  • Happy Chandler||

    If you are pardoned, you can't be charged.
    If you can't be charged, you can't be a witness against yourself.
    If you can't be a witness against yourself, you can't claim the fifth.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    You can always be a witness against yourself. If you lie.

    You plead the fifth because you will lie under oath. Therefore you cannot testify because you will incriminate yourself.

    This is not rocketscience people. The state has twisted the 5th amendment protected against talking, so flip it back on them. Everything you say will be self incrimination because you are a liar.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Dave Chappelle says it the best.... I plead the Fif!

    One...two...three...four...Fif!

  • Dooley Stetson||

    A hung jury isn't an acquittal. Although the defendant hasn't been convicted and still maintains the presumption of innocence, there's no legal impediment (i.e. double jeopardy) that prevents the government from taking another whack at him.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    "A hung jury is an acquittal. As in no conviction."

    There actually is a legal impediment to taking a second crack at him. The government just chooses to make as many excuses to avoid the Double Jeopardy limitation as possible.

    There is nothing that gives the government authority to try someone for the same offense even if they are not acquitted of the charges. There is a constitutional limitation, called double jeopardy.

  • Dooley Stetson||

    Nothing that gives the government authority except Supreme Court precedent, that is. In United States v. Perez, the court held that when a criminal trial results in a hung jury, the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Fifth Amendment does not prevent the defendant from being retried.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    That's a pretty rough ruling in my eyes. Outside of any of this going on now in Washington. I still feel prosecution has too much going for it in the average criminal case.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Hence the problem. There is no such exception in the constitution. In other words, the SCOTUS is full of shit and we all know it.

    Ignore the SCOTUS based on their unconstitutional precedent. Jurors use jury nullification.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    How do you resolve this question of the SCOTUS versus the Constitution, when the Constitution says the SCOTUS is the one's who get final say on the meaning of the Constitution? Can they even be Unconstitutional by definition?

  • Calidissident||

    You'd be happy if Trump pardoned Manafort? What happened to rule of law and draining the swamp?

  • sarcasmic||

    Principals trump principles.

  • Just Say'n||

    Yup. And you and Cali are showing that to be as true as LC

  • sarcasmic||

    Really? How exactly have I shown that I give a shit, other than watching in amusement as the Trumptards and Trumphaters battle it out over who, not what?

  • TLBD||

    Perhaps some could give a shit about Manafort.

    Perhaps some are pissed that the Justice System has been weaponized for political purposes.

    You know, things a libertarian should care about.

  • sarcasmic||

    Why should I care? I can't do anything about it. I can't change it. Worrying about things over which I have no control serves no purpose. Hell, worrying in general serves no purpose. So no, I don't care. Not one little bit.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Sarcasmic is an anarchist so the quicker this house of cards comes down the better to have Anarchy-land.

    When he says that he can't do anything, he means he won't do anything to help this Constitutional Democratic Republic survive.

  • sarcasmic||

    How much to cross the bridge?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Sarcasmic and his bridge butter strike again.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Did you stop using Nanarchist?

  • TLBD||

    Why are you here rather than looking at Cat Videos?

  • Just Say'n||

    LC1789: They're all innocent because I love Trump!

    Sarc and Cali: They're all guilty because we love the intelligence community now!

    Pathetic

  • sarcasmic||

    When did I say anything about guilt or innocence? Please enlighten me.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Who knows if the guy is innocent.

    Acquittals dont mean the person is innocent and Guilty verdicts dont mean the person actually violated the law.

    A jury found him Guilty of 8 out of 10 charges with overwhelming publicity to hang Manafort on all 18 charges.

    Its does not matter if he is innocent or a violator of federal crimes.

    Trump will pardon him and so Manafort will never be a felon nor have criminal convictions that mean anything.

  • Calidissident||

    Yeah, that's a totally accurate representation of what I've argued and not a blatant strawman. Shall I sum up your argument as "Trump innocent cuz CIA bad!!!"

    If you've read what I actually wrote, I haven't claimed certainty that there was any successful direct collusion, and I haven't opined on the legality of such acts because I'm no legal expert (and it would depend on the exact details). What I've said is that the public evidence indicates that the Trump campaign was at the very least open to and supportive of Russian help and on at least one occasion key members of the campaign sought to collude with someone they believed to be acting at the direction of the Russian government. Again, based on the public evidence this is far from the batshit crazy claim you make it out to be.

  • Just Say'n||

    That absolutely accurate for you.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Got got convicted of 8 of 10 charges.

    Its hard to beat stacked charges for anyone, let alone enemy #1 of the Lefties this month.

    Pardoning is perfectly legal and a clear message that all the Lefty tricks to undermine the Constitution will not be tolerated.

  • Calidissident||

    Yeah man, it's not that Paul Manafort was blatantly corrupt and that this was obvious before Trump ever hired him as his campaign manager, it's that he was railroaded by stacked charges. Good lord

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Boy, you Lefties sure are freaking out as predicted.

    Cohen just plead guilty to 8 counts.

    A pardon for Cohen and a pardon for Manafort.

    When Trump pardons everyone that Mueller is 'investigating' there will be nothing left for Mueller but to quit.

  • Calidissident||

    Can you drop the pretense that you give a shit about anything other than cheering on Trump and his cronies no matter what they do?

  • sarcasmic||

    Can you drop the pretense that you give a shit about anything other than cheering on Trump and his cronies no matter what they do?

    You mean lc be honest and argue in good faith? Good luck with that.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    I comment in good faith all the time. Its why you flip out and get so mad.

    non sequiturs are you're cup of tea. Your Mini Anarchist cup of tea.

  • sarcasmic||

    Your Mini Anarchist cup of tea.

    So you're saying that you argue in good faith, but are too stupid to understand what words mean.

    Gotcha.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Did he mean Minarchist?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Minarchist is anarchist. Certainly isnt libertarian.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Gotcha first.

  • perlchpr||

    I comment in good faith all the time.

    You're only slightly less irritating than the Michael Hihn Robot for Shitposting and Goat Sodomy.

    Your Mini Anarchist cup of tea.

    Actually, maybe you're on the same level.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Look at the concern trolls all upset that they are not considered serious commenters.

    They run around a post gotcha like trolls do without adding to the conversation on a libertarian (not anymore) website.

  • sarcasmic||

    not anymore

    Not since you started posting, that's for sure.

  • Unicorn Abattoir||

    convicted on 8 of 18 charges, actually.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Sorry, 8 out of 18 yeah.

  • Just Say'n||

    How can you type that when your hands are so busy stroking off FBI agents, Mr. Suddenly Law and Order

  • ||

    Have you ever heard the notion that making sure to always believe only and exactly the opposite of what your Oppressor tells you to believe is not actually you freeing yourself from Oppression?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    A pardon will drive the Lefties crazy!

    Pardoning federal crimes is perfectly within the constitution (Supreme law for you Lefties).

  • sarcasmic||

    So you didn't say anything when Clinton pardoned 140 people on his last day in office? For some reason I suspect you were having seizures and frothing at the mouth like every other Republican out there.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    whataboutism!?!

  • sarcasmic||

    I just figured you were a typical "It's great when my team does it and a crime when their team does it!" kinda guy. After all, partisans gonna partisan.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Yeah, you partisan alright.

  • sarcasmic||

    "I'm rubber and you're glue! Neener neener!"

    /lc

  • loveconstitution1789||

    "I spout off about nonsense"

    /Sarcasmic the Anarchist

  • sarcasmic||

    Over the years I've known many people who, when faced with something they couldn't understand, called the other person stupid. "X squared plus Y squared equals... Fuck you you're stupid!" That sort of thing. You're no different.

  • sarcasmic||

    "Min plus archy equals.... Fuck you you're stupid!"

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Min plus archy means nothing. Anarchosts get mad when libertarians dont accept you, since you dont support rule of law, the constitution, or tiny limited government under a constitution.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Ypure stupid sarcasmic and I am glad you finally admit it.

    I hope you find your anarchyland and live happily ever after.

  • Happy Chandler||

    Part of the articles of impeachment from Nixon were about offering pardons to co-conspirators. Use of constitutional powers for illegal means is still illegal.

    Also, using the power of the state to punish enemies, similar to threatening and actually pulling security clearances and saying that he won't if they say nice things about him.

    Nixon was facing impeachment for less than Trump has openly done.

  • ||

    Nixon was facing impeachment

    But didn't, actually, get impeached, so these things you cite are accusations, not legal precedents.

  • Calidissident||

    That's true, but impeachment is ultimately a political question not a legal one so I don't think legal precedent really matters on that question.

  • ||

    impeachment is ultimately a political question not a legal one so I don't think legal precedent really matters on that question

    That's what I'm saying - something being listed as an accusation in articles of impeachment does not make it law.

  • Happy Chandler||

    Nobody has ever been convicted in the Senate, so there are no precedents.

    This is the best evidence we have. There is no standard of proof for impeachment. The only standard is can you convince 2/3 of the Senate.

    The resignation and pardon is strong evidence.

  • ||

    The resignation and pardon is strong evidence.

    It's strong evidence that he didn't think his presidency was going to survive an impeachment trial. This does not make the accusations listed in the articles of impeachment points of law.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Nice fever dream.

    You Lefties sure are going to freak out when Trump is never impeached and when Trump win re-election by more states than 2016.

  • Sometimes a Great Notion||

    Why do you want Manafort pardon based on these crimes? He is a swamp dweller who latched onto Trump. Trump had no idea Manafort being under investigation when he hired him. This whole thing is so fucking stupid. Manafort is a piece of shit whose entire professional life has been to get the idiots we elect to hold a gun to our heads to pay for his clients projects. Thieves should be imprisoned! 1 down 1000s to go. MAGA!!

  • loveconstitution1789||

    There is no way Manafort got a fair trial. Even the Lefties had that narrative going since the judge told the Mueller team to move along. Mueller got some convictions so all the claims of unfair trial for the federal government disappeared.

    Manafort is probably a scumbag. He has zero power. The politicians and bureaucrats are the problem. Manafort is a distraction from the real criminals still working at the FBI, DOJ, NSA, CIA, and in Congress.

    Letting Mueller spin his wheels just sets Trump up to go after Hillary with a special prosecutor. Trump let Mueller investigate his administration, so it will soon be time to indict Hillary, Comey, Rosenstein....

  • Happy Chandler||

    Evidence:
    Manafort was in money trouble. He was committing bank fraud and selling access to the highest bidder.
    Manafort accepted the campaign manager job on a zero pay basis. Why would someone in a cash crunch work for free?
    Manafort wrote a sanctioned Russian figure to attempt to use his position in the campaign to "make whole" with him.

    Also:
    Trump's campaign chairman, deputy chairman, and national security adviser are all felons.

  • Just Say'n||

    Fact: none of the crimes are in any way related to Russia collusion which is what the mentally insane, such as yourself, promised was forthcoming.

    Flynn is going to trail for lying to the FBI about something that wasn't even a crime.

  • Happy Chandler||

    Going to trail? What are you trying to say?

    Also, this teaches me to post before checking news updates.

    Trump's personal lawyer also a felon, saying that he committed a crime at the direction of the candidate.

    It's such a coincidence that so many people associated with the drain the swamp campaign are felons. The investigation is still ongoing. There are a lot of witches being caught already!

  • Just Say'n||

    Where's muh collusion?

  • Tony||

    In a year's time you're going to be asking "Where's muh total destruction of the Milky Way galaxy, huh? You promised me REAL crimes."

    Ever consider not being useless?

  • Happy Chandler||

    Explain the "make whole" email?

    Do you know what Mueller has?

    How come there were so many people lying about it?

  • Brett Bellmore||

    "Manafort is one of many, many folks with troubled backgrounds and histories of bad behavior who have worked with Trump and influenced his policy leanings."

    Observation bias: If you subjected Obama or Clinton's associates to the same level of determined scrutiny, how many of them could you have nailed?

    D.C. is an extremely corrupt town. And we live in a "Ham Sandwich Nation", where basically anybody could be convicted of a crime if subject to sufficient scrutiny by a merciless prosecutor.

    I'm not saying Manafort isn't a criminal. I'm saying that criminals are common in Washington. What's uncommon are investigators interested in prosecuting them. The only thing particularly Trump related about the Manafort prosecution is that Trump has a team of prosecutors trying to put anybody who's associated with him behind bars.

    I imagine one intended effect of this is that people will be reluctant to join his administration, because, who among us could avoid jail if subjected to this level of examination? And you WILL be subject to it if he hires you.

  • Dillinger||

    >>>team of prosecutors trying to put anybody who's associated with him behind bars

    peculiar ... like Saddam w/less bullets

  • Happy Chandler||

    Republicans held the house for six years under Obama, and they held investigations throughout. How many convictions were obtained throughout this?

  • Dooley Stetson||

    Congress doesn't have prosecutorial powers. Any referrals for prosecution would have gone to a Holder/Lynch DOJ. So what's your point?

  • Happy Chandler||

    That didn't stop charges for Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and W administrations.

    They all had multiple people commit crimes and be convicted.

    There were tons of investigations into Obama's administration. They resulted in:
    1 misdemeanor mishandling classified information charge (Petraeus)
    Tons of no illegal activity found reports.
    Some evidence of bad management (in the government? No way!).

  • loveconstitution1789||

    You are going to be really upset when Cohen and Manafort are pardoned.

  • Horny Lizard||

    Cohen bailed on Trump. They mutually hate each other. Your new talking point is: Cohen can't be trusted. Why would Trump pardon someone who is telling everyone he committed crimes with Trump?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    So what if cohen hates Trump. Trump holds the power of the pardon and cohen needs one of those.

    Clinton sold pardons for tens of thousands of dollars. Clearly pardons are worth cohen not saying anything about anything.

  • ||

    That didn't stop charges for Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and W administrations.

    They all had multiple people commit crimes and be convicted.

    And, in a curious coincidence, Manafort was much more intimately and directly involved in three of those five administrations than he was with Trump. Yet he escaped notice until now.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Mueller went over manaforts life with two hands on the shoulders, if you know what I mean.

    Mueller could only come up with stuff from the last 10 years and they were 'crimes' because manafort hired people that stole from him. Weak charges and even a jury knew it.

  • Dooley Stetson||

    Name a single individual in the Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, or W administrations who was charged or convicted based on a congressional investigation.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    ....Trump's record of poor judgment in his personnel decisions might—and frankly should—cause some people to think twice about re-electing him.

    Manafort is "The Swamp." Trump campaigned on a promise to drain "the swamp," meaning the culture of corruption, cronyism, and self-dealing that causes the federal government to grow ever larger for the fiscal benefit of a select few.

    Manafort is a political insider. Trump came to the presidency without a tiny team. Trump scrambled to find people to serve in his administration. With the media hating Trump and attacking everyone he picked, Trump had difficulty filling many positions. Luckily he made some great picks. Trump also made a few bad picks.

    Manafort was part of the Trump campaign team and once Trump was shown that Manafort was involved in things bad for Trump, Trump fired him.

    A president of lesser character would have kept the corrupt advisor on (like Obama did with Hillary, Loretta Lynch, Comey....). Turnover in an administration is probably a good thing as most Libertarians have an issue with politicians spending their life living off the taxpayer teat.

  • Horny Lizard||

    But apparently Trump didn't cut ties with Manafort because there are later emails between Manafort and Kushner where it appears Manafort was involved in deciding who would serve in the Trump administration.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Off with his head then!

    Jesus, you lefties and your fever dreams.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Cohen just plead guilty to 8 counts too. Coincidence?

    Trump has his pardon ready too.

  • Tony||

    Which you're fine with, because these are all stand-up citizens caught up in a lizard people conspiracy, right?

  • sarcasmic||

    Says the guy who was sucking his own dick when Clinton pardoned 140 people on his last day in office.

  • ||

    when Clinton pardoned 140 people on his last day in office.

    Including this wonderful person.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Concern trolling. Interesting.

  • ||

    Do you know what that term means? Because it doesn't seem like you do.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Youre trolling in a concerned way just to eat sarcasmics bridge butter?

  • Tony||

    I was actually being a young anti-Clinton Republican at the time, and I hadn't discovered yoga yet.

  • vek||

    Why couldn't you have remained that superior version of yourself Tony? I mean line towing Republicans aren't perfect, but they're surely a vast improvement over what you have become!

  • Tony||

    No they're really not.

  • vek||

    You could always become the finest of all possible Tony variations... The right-libertarian, with a few carve outs for when purist libertarian thinking becomes suicidal in the real world. That's what I've done since abandoning being a purist libertarian, and it's sweet!

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    for when purist libertarian thinking becomes suicidal in the real world.

    Roughly a quarter-century ago.

    But purists are not the problem. It's when the anti-government goobers drowned out the pro-liberty achievers.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    I dont care. Lefties like YOU dont care about rule of law, the Constitution, or anything that is good for America.

    Manafort got convicted of 8 out of 10 charges. The jury should have acquitted him on the other 10 charges but they are cowards who dont follow the law.

    Either way, Trump will pardon Manafort. That is good for America because Lefties need to be put in their place that they will never win anything of value again. No matter how much Lefties lie and cheat, they will never win.

  • ||

    Lefties like YOU don't care about the law.

    Righties like me are overjoyed that a convicted criminal is about to be pardoned by the President because partisanship.

  • sarcasmic||

    Hey, it's different when they do it because, well, it's different.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Sarcasmic, is getting so upset that Trump will pardon Manafort and Cohen too.

    Why would an Anarchist like Sarcasmic care?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Oh calidissent, make up your mind which non-libertarian I am.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    PROOF ... COLLUSION!

    THIS is what Giuliani denied.

    Russian invitation to Donald Jr.
    The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

    This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.
    Source: Donald Trump Jr's own Twitter feed!!!

    LOCK HIM UP!

  • Horny Lizard||

    I'll let that "lizard people" comment slide this one time.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    The Lefties still think the jury was bought because they didnt come back with 18 convictions.

    hahaha. This is even better than Manafort being acquitted no all charges.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    You're LAUGHING because your prediction of Manafort's innocence has now been publicly and totally riduled?

    SHOW OF HANDS:
    1) Anyone else believe "the lefties" are not CELEBRATING Manafort's conviction?
    2) Anyone else too ignorant to know that Manafort can be retried on EVERY charge that the jury was hung on.

    No, Trumpster, it has nothing to do with double jeopardy, because innocence also requires a unanimous jury.

  • TLBD||

    How many of these charges were actual forms of aggression?

    The jury concluded that Manafort was guilty on all five tax counts, one FBAR count, and two bank fraud counts.

    Perhaps the bank fraud.

    Meanwhile, the Justice System has been co-opted for political purposes. Equality under the law? Nah, depends on what fucking team you're on.

    Reason and TDS libertarians celebrate. What a fucking joke.

  • Happy Chandler||

    He committed crimes.
    He's doing time.

    Seems about right.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Who's doing time? Manafort?

    He'll be pardoned, unlike Hillary.

  • TLBD||

    Hey, define the word censor for me, dipshit.

  • Mr. JD||

    Who, if anyone, in Washington could not be convicted of similar things if the law were enforced consistently?

    And what should we think about that?

  • Mr. JD||

    Who, if anyone, in Washington could not be convicted of similar things if the law were enforced consistently?

    And what should we think about that?

  • TLBD||

    We should think that libertarians who often talk about Team, don't realize that Team Never Trump is even more partisan and even more hypocritical/stupid than Team Red or Team Blue.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Exactly. Nevertrumpers want fuck Americans, America, and the constitution.

    Trump is successfully rolling back their socialist agenda. Nevertrumpers will do anything to stop that.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    PROOF ... COLLUSION!

    THIS is what Giuliani denied.

    Russian invitation to Donald Jr.
    The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

    This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government's support for Mr. Trump – helped along by Aras and Emin.
    Source: Donald Trump Jr's own Twitter feed!!!

    LOCK HIM UP!

  • Let freedom ring||

    Scott Shackford has a hard on for Russia, because it is a conservative Christian culture not very gay friendly. I think most of the Reason staff has a similar inclination.
    Love how he said that Yanucovich was simply "removed from office". Yea, in a bloody CIA coup that featured three Georgian mercenaries firing into the crowd on the Maidan Square from the Hotel Ukrainia Las Vegas style killing police and demonstrators.
    Also love how Reason argues Americans should not be taxed for overseas earnings except, well, except in this case. TRUMP
    It is unclear what Manafort was doing for Yanucovich, but it is possible he was working on the EU deal that was eventually turned down by him in favor of Russian deal.
    Wonderful how Ukraine has turned out, even Moldova has a better standard of living now and the Neo Nazis and kleptocrats are nothing but a clown car pretending to be a country.

  • DarrenM||

    Possibly in prison for life, for what? Who was murdered? Who was harmed at all apart from the government not getting their cut from Manafort's dealings?

  • Tony||

    Not a life sentence, he's just really old.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Manafort will be pardoned. Bet on it.

    Same with cohen.

  • Tony||

    And what have they done to earn pardons?

  • Horny Lizard||

    Cohen will get a pardon but it'll be given by the next Democratic Prez. God bless Michael Cohen.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    That will get Trump impeached ... MORE obstruction ... added to PROOF that the Trump Tower meeting was an intentional conspiracy attempt,

  • babybird722||

    I voted for Trump to stir the waters and question the way things have always been done in DC. I did not believe that Trump was a racist. I admired his daughter so I didn't believe that he was any more sexist than men are. I actually believed that he cared about this country and he wanted to fix things. I was wrong about everything. Trump is surrounded by racists and he defends them. Trump is surrounded by crooks who have an incredible sense of entitlement, visible contempt for peasants and who believe that they are above the law. Birds or a feather...

    Did Russia brainwash us with Facebook ads to hate Hillary? Not me. I deleted my Facebook account during the primaries and I don't watch TV. Did Russia attempt to influence the election for Trump? Probably no more than India did for Hillary. Is Trump involved in a conspiracy, or two or three? Probably, but probably not the one we are investigating and we haven't even scratched the surface to see how far the rabbit hole goes on the real conspiracies.Knowing Trump, he used campaign money to buy off Stormy. He took money from poor people in Kentucky and West Virginia to pay for a trick. Really? I wanted so much to avoid reading about Bill's exploits and Hillary's sausage making everyday for four years and looks like I jumped out of the frying pan straight into the fire. The only upside to Trump is that he is so incompetent, he can only hurt us so much. I guess that is why I decided to vote for him.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Maga!

  • arcaneknowledge||

    I'm sure trump is guilty of breaking many laws over the years ,and if the powers that be want to prosecute him for it, go ahead. It's about time the politicians start being held accountable just like the rest of us. However, I dont think that will be the case. The attitude of these political parties and their useful idiots that worship them baffles me. If trump is to be prosecuted for his crimes (note I did not say alleged) then why not all the other thieving, whoring, murdering criminals currently in office. There is absolutely nothing that trump is guilty of that 99.999...% of the rest aren't guilty of as well. They are all guilty and everybody knows it, but for some reason that defies logic, if my guy or gal breaks the law its ok. If yours breaks the law its a threat to the very foundations of freedom and democracy.

    My brothers I weep for the future.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Maga!

  • GamerFromJump||

    We watched the guilty-as-sin Hillary walk away with far more direct evidence, as the Justice dept. gave theories to excuse it that even a law school freshman couldn't get away with. A sudden burst of always-get-your-man vigor would just tell the public what a lot of us already suspect: the swamp is real, and it is blatant now.

  • Jgalt1975||

    Weird how there's supposedly "far more direct evidence" regarding Clinton's guilt, but in more than 18 months of having Trump's appointees running the DoJ they haven't gotten around to charging her. It's almost as though actual lawyers with access to the actual evidence (as compared to internet dipshits running their mouths) don't think there's a viable criminal charge there....

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    Trump's own Attorney General, Jeff Sessions, explicitly refused to appoint a Special Counsel for Hillary, saying one could not be justified.

  • Will Seth||

    So what's this have to do with the Russians?

  • GamerFromJump||

    Nothing, except hoping someone will crack a spin the tale Mueller wants.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    That trial is next month.
    Added to Donald Jr's invitation to a conspiracy with Russia.

  • GamerFromJump||

    If they try to drop the insane 240-year sentence on him that keeps coming up, Trump should pardon him for no other reason than preventing an 8th Amendment violation committed out of pure spite.

  • vek||

    Yup. This is all just a big witch hunt, so pardoning outright, or I believe they can also reduce sentences, on all the people getting fucked should definitely be a thing he does. They already think he is LITERALLY HITLER, so he might as well "abuse" his power a little bit for real!

  • Duelles||

    Not sure very many people are familiar with #8 or the real meaning of it.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    There is no 240-year sentence even possible.
    And SCOTUS has already ruled that each sentence is for a separate crime, when there are multiple convictions.
    Trump is dead, now just playing out,

  • Duelles||

    I cut Trump some slack on picking dicey characters to work for him. He was never in any political office so had no minions of that ilk. He promised to drain the swamp so he most likely has few willing establishment pals. So he screwed up picking people, but he does get rid of them too!

  • Salero21||

    The closest thingy thing the US has to Marxism is Taxes. In other words Taxes is the closest thingy thing the US has to Marxism.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    Consent of the governed,
    Even Ayn Rand ridiculed that nonsense.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Great headline -- and lesson in conservative journalism -- at The Federalist:

    'Jury Refuses To Convict Paul Manafort On Majority Of Counts'

    This is turning out to be as much fun as a Stanley Cup victory, a Rolling Stones tour, or a great amusement park.

    Carry on, clingers.

  • Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland||

    Great headline -- and lesson in conservative journalism -- at The Federalist:

    'Jury Refuses To Convict Paul Manafort On Majority Of Counts'

    This is turning out to be as much fun as a Stanley Cup victory, a Rolling Stones tour, or a great amusement park.

    Carry on, clingers.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    One absolute in all this. Trumpsters --- like Trump himself -- can invent new lame excuses at will.
    Or Giuliani caught red-handed lying about the Trump Tower conspiracy.

  • Elilis Wyatt||

    This just in:

    The publisher of National Enquirer has just been granted immunity --- and his attorney -- to testify their knowledge of Trump's involvement in the McDougal bribe..

    Listen closely. Trump's death rattle.

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