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Millennial Socialist Moment Mostly Media Hype

Millennials may have mixed views of capitalism, but they hold socialism in even lower regard.

Michael Nigro/ZUMA Press/NewscomMichael Nigro/ZUMA Press/NewscomAre millennials increasingly anti-capitalist? That's the question Chicago public radio station WBEZ posed recently to me and The Nation's Sarah Leonard. (You can listen to the whole thing here.)

"The explosive popularity of Bernie Sanders in the U.S. and Jeremy Corbyn in the U.K. among younger voters revealed millennials' desire for a new economic system," states the promo for the segment on WBEZ program Worldview. "It's no wonder, as millennials are likely to be economically worse off than their parents or grandparents, especially those who became job-seeking adults after the Great Recession of 2008."

That all makes for a tidy narrative, but it's one built on the flimsiest of evidence. The main data offered during the Worldview segment was a 2016 Harvard poll, in which 51 percent of 18- to 29-year-old respondents had an unfavorable view of capitalism. But as I pointed out at the time (and on the show), the same poll showed that an even greater number of young people—59 percent—had an unfavorable view of socialism.

And while 42 percent of the millennials that Harvard surveyed had a positive view of capitalism, just 33 percent had a positive view of socialism.

In an array of other surveys from the past few years, millennial support for socialist and capitalist policies varies widely based on how poll questions are asked. For instance, socialism is much more popular than a government-managed economy, and a free-market economy is more popular than capitalism. And in policy-based polls, millennial economic preferences run the gamut. Yes, many support student-loan forgiveness programs and government-managed health care, but they also express strong support for entrepreneurship, dream of owning their own small businesses, and reject hypothetical government expansions when they come with personal tax hikes. In other words...they look a lot like Americans across the age spectrum.

Polls only tell part of the story, of course, but the part they do tell is not one of an increasingly socialist youth populace. That's probably important to keep in mind as the media coalesces on the Socialist Moment plot-line. Sure, the leftist podcast Chapo Trap House has a lot of fans, and more Twitter avatars now sport red roses (long a socialist symbol). But the subset of American young people poised to notice either of those things is infinitesimally smaller than those who aren't. These are the kinds of affectations and antiheroes that the media latch onto and elevate because—like the Pepe the Frog–tweeting alt-right accounts during the election—they're very salient in online media and activism worlds. But it's a mistake to take that salience as indicative of actual numbers or influence.

So what about Bernie? Yes, young Americans vastly preferred the socialist-lite Vermont senator to Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, or any of the GOP-primary candidates. But their alternatives were Clinton, Trump, and the likes of Chris Christie and Jeb Bush. They are the most establishment of The Establishment, with the exception of Trump—who, like Sanders, benefited from people's desperation to ditch this dynastic, cronyist electoral loop we seemed caught in. That Sanders secured so much millennial support doesn't necessarily equate to a full socialist embrace by these young folks, just that he was the best of exceedingly bad options.

To their credit, more committed and long-term leftists have managed to swing some of Bernie's millennial momentum into post-election momentum for leftist policies more broadly. And young people are certainly—now and at least throughout recent history—more receptive to redistributive economic policies and strict labor regulation. Perhaps the left can capture some of these tepid socialism supporters at the right moment to convert them for good, and this same discussion will look a lot different in a few years.

But I doubt it. Sanders—and Trump—seem to me the 2016 heirs of the Hope and Change phenomenon, which propelled not just Barack Obama to 2008 victory but the rise of the Ron Paul movement. At its essence is the idea the system is fundamentally broken and only bold changes can begin to fix it. And the particulars of these bold changes seem to matter less than how convincing their messenger and the movement around them.

I was amazed talking to young people last year how many had been Paul and/or Obama fans in previous election cycles yet were now professing support for Sanders or Trump. The vast political gulfs between these candidates (especially on economic issues) didn't resonate as much as the areas and ways in which they promised reform.

Older folks and the extremely party-loyal tend to take this as youthful flakiness, a side-effect of unserious passions, hastily-conceived beliefs, or a juvenile contrarian streak. But perhaps a lot of younger Americans—not yet sold on the idea that it's one's civic duty to choose the lesser of two evils at election time, nor narcotized by years of show-pony partisanship into believing in vast differences between Democrats and Republicans—are reacting rationally to the options presented to them. The good news for libertarians (and socialists) is that millennials are definitely dissatisfied with the centrist Republican-Democrat status quo. But as the 2016 election made clear, there's room for this dissatisfaction to go in all sorts of different and unexpected directions.

Photo Credit: Michael Nigro/ZUMA Press/Newscom

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  • Unlabelable MJGreen||

    no wai

  • timbo||

    I don't know about you Elizabeth Brown but kids in American public schools are being taught by leftist leaning bureaucrats and thus will certainly have gotten 12 good years of brainwashing under their belts before they ever hear the word capitalism in any positive way. Based on that very fact that I have witnessed in public schools myself, I would say that is the reason amercians are progressively dumber on average and certainly by generation as a whole. That would lead me to place my bet on us going far more left towards socialism than anywhere near re-approaching free markets again.

    Say what you want about skewed evidence but the state of our country and the apparent idiocy of the average dolt would lead me to believe that the leftists are winning and will continue for quite a while.
    Which, by the way, is fantastic news for the millennials and future generations who are not leftists tards. Parents who can raise their kids correctly during the next 30 years will have a child getting into the working world with the overriding advantage over the throngs of zombies for the few non-automated jobs that will be out there. .

  • Unlabelable MJGreen||

    If we ignore the skewed evidence and rely on our gut feelings, it does look like the left is taking over.

  • Crusty Juggler :)||

    The personification of avocado toast.

  • Unlabelable MJGreen||

    As with making jokes about fried chicken and watermelon, what's with avocado toast being used as an insult? Avocado's delicious, bread is delicious, and they're delicious together.

  • Radioactive||

    gotta be racist if not outright cis-normative and unquestioning and appropriative to no doubt!

  • Crusty Juggler :)||

    Of course you wrote that. Of course you did.

    It's a known fact that millennials spend their money on chic trends trends such as avocado toast instead of saving up to buy houses, therefore every horrible photo of a horrible millennial deserves at least one mention of avocado toast.

  • Hugh Akston||

    Not saving up to buy a house is one thing (that no one does anyway). but these Millennial losers won't even bury themselves chin deep in debt to buy a house. What's the matter with them?

  • Crusty Juggler :)||

    Thank you. Back in my day Americans met a partner who was adequate, shit out a few kids, overextended themselves to buy a house, and then slaved under the weight of a mortgage for thirty years.

    What they didn't do is sleep with strangers they met off apps and spend $30 on green toast.

  • Unlabelable MJGreen||

    I'm surprised you call the above hunk of meat a "horrible millennial." He's got a Dylan Matthews thing going on.

  • Crusty Juggler :)||

    He looks like the millennial version of Johnny Utah.

  • Rhywun||

    Avocado's delicious

    [citation needed]

  • Lachowsky||

    When made into guacamole, it becomes tolerable.

  • Wasteland Wanderer||


    When made into guacamole, it becomes intolerable.

    FTFY

  • lap83||

    Here's to you and here's to me...the best of friends we'll always be...but if we find we ever disagree...then OMG I can't even /clinking avocados

  • Agammamon||

    So what about Bernie? Yes, young Americans vastly preferred the socialist-lite Vermont senator to Hillary Clinton, Donald Trump, or any of the GOP-primary candidates. But their alternatives were Clinton, Trump, and the likes of Chris Christie and Jeb Bush.

    I'm sorry, but if you're supporting Sanders - who's *sole* plank was 'nobody needs 23 kinds of deodorant when kids are starving' - then its because *you prefer socialism*. And yes, even in the face of Clinton that remains true - Clinton is Sanders-lite when it comes to economics.

  • BYODB||

    Sanders, for all his raging retardation, was the go-to 'No War' candidate.

    So Millennials, who if you'll recall are those fighting over in Afghanistan, Iraq, and assorted other hell holes, might be disinclined to vote for the various war-boners and war-gyna's. That, plus his naked appeal to buying them off through student loan forgiveness paints a pretty good picture on why that generation might vote for a socialist.

    There were non-irrational reasons to support him, although in my view he was more bad than good. Unfortunately there wasn't a candidate that made it to the end that wasn't more bad than good. Needless to say though, he was marginally the lesser of two evils when it came to Clinton. Very marginally.

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    In my own experience Millennials do not give more than a forced fuck about war. It ain't us fighting, it's people who sign up for it. Two years ago at the beginning of the ISIS conflict I followed the ground campaign closely, mostly the Kurdish resistance and breaking the ISIS siege on Kobani. I linked articles and talked about it often with sincere fascination (I was a little too young to really follow the day-to-day of the Iraq, Afghanistan post 9/11 campaigns).

    Long story short, even in my closest friends I couldn't get more than a passing comment on the situation, maybe a "fuck ISIS" when I'd go into all the torture and child rape.

  • swampwiz||

    Yes, but kids would like the idea of being able to sign up for the military to get a job & college money and not have to actually dodge bullets.

  • ||

    A few years ago here in Quebec the Pari Quebecois cynically capitalized on the student protests that garnered global attention. They were painted as kids fighting the good fight and a couple of the leaders even ended up, ironically as you shall see, in politics within the PQ ranks. The students were banging pots and pans (to which the then leader of the PQ the little hobbit wench Pauline Marois partook) and wearing red squares on their clothes *fighting* for 'free' tuition among other free shit they demanded. The overarching argument was keeping them educated is *good* for society therefore and ergo they deserved free post-secondary education.

    The PQ used this to their advantage and got elected. When the students, believing in their own hype, got to go and pretend to negotiate, the government then turned around and said, 'hm. It seems we can't pay for free education after all. Ooops!' In a province, I might add, that has the LOWEST tuition in Canada; which makes it cheapest in North America.

    And then the stupid movement filled with socialist millennials petered out and the PQ lost the next election.

    The End.

    Until the next go around of morons demanding others pay for their stuff.

  • ChipToBeSquare||

    I don't know that he was less evil than Hillary. His foreign policy certainly sounded better, but we've fallen into that trap with Democratic politicians in the past. He also got completely schooled by her in the debates when it came to foreign policy, I think because he cared far more about harping on inequality and just couldn't bring himself to be more coherent (I think he said Assad remaining in power was unacceptable). He sounded better on drug war and criminal justice sometimes, but then he entertained a smoking ban in an interview, and we should always be cautious about an open socialist saying he's going to shrink the police state

  • Zeb||

    I think you might be assuming too much rationality in people's voting decisions.

  • Sugarsail||

    LOL, they have an unfavorable view of both capitalism and socialism because they are Marxist communists.

  • Radioactive||

    or they're just under-educated fucktards...let's not overlook the obvious!

  • Crusty Juggler :)||

    as the 2016 election made clear, there's room for this disasstifaction to go in all sorts of different and unexpected directions.

    imo i am hoping that is not a typo, cuz there is disasstifcation af going on in da White House rite now.

  • GILMORE™||

    How dare they try and steal the thunder of our Libertarian Moment

  • WakaWaka||

    Considering all the praise heaped on Sanders by Johnson and Sarwak, I could have sworn that an aging socialist was now the 'libertarian moment'. Whatever the hell 'libertarian' means anymore

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    See nobody can define anything, anymore. That's the way they want it.

  • Zeb||

    I'm not sure what the praise you are talking about was. But I'd point out that it is possible to praise a person for being independent and challenging the establishment (or whatever else might be praiseworthy) without endorsing his political philosophy.

  • Dillinger||

    >>>And while 42 percent of the millennials that Harvard surveyed had a positive view of capitalism, just 33 percent had a positive view of socialism.

    Zero-to-one percent of the knuckleheads can define either of them.

  • Radioactive||

    man that's so giving them the benefit of the doubt...

  • Dillinger||

    I seek to avoid absolutism.

  • NoVaNick||

    Yes, Harvard, where the average GPA is a 3.9. No need to think when you get an A just for being the awesomest of the awesome.

  • Zeb||

    Gotta keep the customers happy.

  • Jujucat||

    Yep! ^

  • Jujucat||

    I had to explain to my millennial co-worker that capitalism is not in fact what's up here in the U.S.A. "Mixed Economy"... He then proceeded to look up the definition of capitalism online and I then had to explain crony capitalism, etc...

  • Lester224||

    You'd get the same percentages out of the general public. If you think most of the age 35-100 crowd can define these terms I'd call you optimistic.

  • Cynical Asshole||

    Zero-to-one percent of the knuckleheads can define either of them.

    This X 1,000,000.

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    Is this entirely the fault of the ignorant populace? I place a lot of blame on the propagandists coming from all sides perverting the understanding of every organization, ideal, political philosophy etc.

  • Cynical Asshole||

    I place a lot of blame on the propagandists coming from all sides perverting the understanding of every organization, ideal, political philosophy etc.

    I tend to agree. Unfortunately it's hard to cure ignorance if all anyone gets is a full diet of propaganda all day every day.

  • WakaWaka||

    I don't know, polls can tell you anything (7 out of 10 people know that). Millennials sure do seem to vote for and support a whole lot of socialist policies. I tend to trust the actions of a voting group over what meaningless polls say.

  • Unlabelable MJGreen||

    What policies?

  • loveconstitution1789||

    You could say that most Democrat voters are voting for socialists policies too.

    Many Republicans vote for socialist policies too. TARP, social security, etc.

  • Adam330||

    They vote for and support a whole lot of socialist policies that benefit them, like government funded college. But old people vote for socialist policies too, only the ones that happen to benefit old people, like social security and medicare.

  • Lester224||

    Remember the: "Keep the government's hands off my Medicare" q-tip?

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    I see herd mentality first; fill-in-the-blank of why X policy is good, second.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    "The good news for libertarians (and socialists) is that millennials are definitely dissatisfied with the centrist Republican-Democrat status quo"
    I predict that the Democratic Party will lose so many people that it ceases to be the "other" major party. The GOP will lose people too to Libertarian-ish parties.

    *The GOP will be medium government, more blue collar workers and an unhealthy moral agenda.
    *The Libertarian parties will be small government, free market and maximum social freedoms.
    *The Democratic Party will be lefties who do not want to be know as socialists supporting the Nanny-State & Police-State.

  • GILMORE™||

    I listened to Chapo house because all the medias were pearl clutching about it.

    It was supposed to be funny. There was a lot of beavis+butthead laughing at "dood trump sux" etc moaning about both conservative and liberal establishment figures. But it only seemed edgy if your only source of snark to date had been Samantha Bee. By youtube-commentary standards they were dull, tame. They're like a decade behind the online right.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    millennials' desire for a new economic system

    We're going to have to define 'new' here before we get started.

  • GILMORE™||

    "new" = old+gibberish buzzwords

    E.g. we call 'writing' , "blogging". Because we live in a retarded era.

  • lap83||

    New to them

  • BYODB||


    It's no wonder, as millennials are likely to be economically worse off than their parents or grandparents, especially those who became job-seeking adults after the Great Recession of 2008."


    Yeah, it's 'no wonder' some of them are worse off after the Baby Boomers and their parents looted the treasury. It's almost like no one was paying attention when they were told that they were shifting the cost onto their children. In tandem with ever-tightening restrictions on the labor market, that generation was nicely fucked by their parents and grand-parents.


    But hey, lets blame the generation that's getting stuck with the bill. I'm sure that will fly.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    I get stares when I point this out to Boomers and even the Greatest Gen old people.

    They will never admit they fucked up and are stealing from kids. Stossel admits it but he still collects social security.

    Social security, medicare and medicaid are really a fuck you, I got mine by old people to Millennials and Gen Zers. Old people will not even discuss cutting this welfare back. They certainly will not admit that their generation were suckers to go along with this welfare and pay into it.

  • BYODB||

    Well, some of them voted for LBJ three times. So yeah, free shit sells and damn the consequences.

    If it's any consolation to the old-timers who fucked over the Millennial's, I'm sure this generation will fuck over their kids in plenty of ways too. That whole student loan bubble can't last forever, for one, although even that is a creation of their parents.

    Gotta love a generation that was so ambivalent about their own children that they actively sold them into indentured servitude to the state.

  • DesigNate||

    My favorite fuck you is personal, but I really appreciate the oldsters lobbying to make it where you have to get a Masters degree AND do roughly 2.5 years of internship to even sit for the architectural licensing exam. Right before a bunch of their kids graduated from high school.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    support for Sanders or Trump. The vast political gulfs between these candidates (especially on economic issues)

    Is there a vast gulf between Sanders and Trump on econ issues, or did I not read that correctly?

  • BYODB||

    Well we know they agree on protectionism via tariffs, so there's that.

  • Cynical Asshole||

    Sanders seemed to promise more free shit than Trump and promised to soak the rich in taxes, but yeah, on protectionism and immigration (remember Sanders claim that open borders was a Koch brothers plot to import cheap labor) they were pretty much the same.

  • BYODB||

    Indeed. Bizarrely you see people who thought those idea's were brilliant when they came from Sanders think they're the dumbest thing they've ever heard when Trump says the exact same thing. The same works in reverse as well for Trumpists.

    A clear cut case of principals versus principles? Perhaps so.

  • ChipToBeSquare||

    Trump also entertained raising the minimum wage on the campaign trail

  • Domestic Dissident||

    Young people have been dumb, naive skulls full of mush in just about every generation for just about forever.

    The difference is that until fairly recently in history, eventually they would get their first real full time job, which led to their first real paycheck, which led to them saying "they took out HOW much??", and then they would settle down and have children. In other words, reality would intrude and they would grow up.

    Now, more and more they're never even entering the workforce at all and never living an actual normal, healthy life cycle. Increasingly we have 35 year olds who are still at the mental and emotional developmental stage of a 17 year old. Of course these people are going to vote for freebies and handouts forever from old commies like Brooklyn Bernie.

  • Adam330||

    Right. I remember when those prior generations voted against social security, medicare, medicaid, etc. That's why all of those things were abolished back in...oh wait.

  • BYODB||

    Oh, and it's why their generation passed the ACA. Oops!

    They tried to blame that on Millennial's too, because they made up something like 10% of Obama voters. Sure thing, Boomers! All their fault!

  • swampwiz||

    I remember the first paycheck I got from my first "real" job and how I could not believe how small it was after all the taxes. I also remember when I "early retired" and was able to get free stuff like SNAP & ObamaRomneyHeritageCare.

  • Mickey Rat||

    The Millenial worldview seems to think that businesses (especially corporate form businesses) have a lot more power in one's life than the government and market forces are no check to businesses doing undesirable actions while democracy is an adequate check on government.

    I think this is wrong. In fact, I think it has most every thing precisely backwards. One has more personal effect on the market and yiur own personal.life i n your economic choices than you can posdibly have on government policy. This view is why it is so difficult to argue against Net Neutrality supporters. They do not see government as a credible threat.

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    My friends still talk about icky (my words) profits and corporate villains.

  • Cynical Asshole||

    Millennials may have mixed views of capitalism, but they hold socialism in even lower regard.

    Perhaps there's a "third way" they might prefer...

  • Dick Puller, Attorney at Law||

    Given the number of Pepe's and swastikas in my twitter feed, I'm guessing that third way is a national socialist kind of thing.

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    The Libertarian path to victory must follow that of Tokygawa Ieyasu. We must patiently wait for all our enemies to destroy each other for we do not have the power to defeat them. The faux-nationalists, the faux-fascists, the faux-communists, the SJWs -- they will usurp and destroy the old powers (red and blue), then they will destroy each other. The Libertarian's must wait and wait until that true moment, when the opening appears and then we must strike without hesitation.

  • Eeyore||

    They must be feudalists. I wonder if they are willing to be proles, or if they will demand to be lords.

  • Citizen X - #6||

    But I doubt it. Sanders—and Trump—seem to me the 2016 heirs of the Hope and Change phenomenon, which propelled not just Barack Obama to 2008 victory but the rise of the Ron Paul movement. At its essence is the idea the system is fundamentally broken and only bold changes can begin to fix it. And the particulars of these bold changes seem to matter less than how convincing their messenger and the movement around them.

    I was amazed talking to young people last year how many had been Paul and/or Obama fans in previous election cycles yet were now professing support for Sanders or Trump. The vast political gulfs between these candidates (especially on economic issues) didn't resonate as much as the areas and ways in which they promised reform.

    This right here. Before moaning about millennials being pro-socialism because so many of them embraced self-described socialist Bernie Sanders, remember that Bernie himself is a very, very dumb man who thinks socialism means "like Denmark" (over the protests of actual Danish policymakers).

  • ChipToBeSquare||

    Bernie says that's what his socialism is. His kind words for Latin American socialism, as well as his actual policy goals, implies otherwise. I wish someone had asked him about Denmark's corporate income tax or something

  • MarkLastname||

    ENB is way overly optimistic. Those polls suggest that socialism is almost as popular as capitalism; the latter is the most successful economic system history, the former is the least.

    If a poll came out showing that MLK is only slightly more popular than Hitler among today's youth, I would find that worrying rather than reassuring. And the fact is, if a more truly classically liberal candidate has run, Bernie would've done just as well or better; the young people were clamoring for someone like him.

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    Gosh IDK. I see a lot of questioning and disillusionment with the status quo of government but when it came time to put their money where their mouth was I saw a clear divide along traditionally party lines in the Millennials I know. And by 'divide' I mean, they all just voted team blue.

    Discussion and voting are two separate beasts -- heck I'm pretty sure many Reason contributing authors voted Clinton and refuse to talk about it. It was the vibe I got on this website last election day.

  • creech||

    Youngsters have always flipped and flopped between political ideology. Hillary was a "Goldwater Girl" once upon a time, and a lot of commentators here have admitted to being Leftists in their college days. All we can do is present freedom and the free market profit and loss system in the best light possible and hope for the best.

  • ||

    Which commentators? I want names.

    Proudly, I never fell for that left-wing shit. It was written by poetic losers for faux-righteous losers.*

    *Read in Homer voice.

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    For the life of me, since I was a child, I've been utterly perplexed by the obvious notion that everyone can admit to of young people being democrats then later in life they go republican. It's so bizarre, and the fact I find it bizarre is almost assuredly what stopped me from ever just being a democrat at 18.

    I wanted to figure out why everyone goes blue then red, endlessly through the generations (it feels like), and everyone has the common nonchalance understanding of that fact.

    IDK how to even explain this feeling, but when everyone I know went blue at 18... I'll never understand it. I just do not understand how/why individuals go through the same motions generation after generation.

  • swampwiz||

    And the only reason that old farts stay Republican is because the Republicans have become the party of old farts' welfare.

  • Cynical Asshole||

    All we can do is present freedom and the free market profit and loss system in the best light possible and hope for the best.

    We're doomed.

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    ^thread winner

  • GILMORE™||

    Like many others have pointed out, I think the poll #s are effectively meaningless

    The problem with millenials isn't that they favor capitalism or socialism, but rather that they dont remotely understand either. Of course that's not unique to them either - prior generations are only a little better.

    It's like polling on the ACA which shows 50% like it (or don't). The problem is that only a tiny fraction of those polled have even used ACA markets or have any significant experience w other plans against which to compare it's current value-per-dollar

    Basically, most peoples opinions don't matter.

  • GILMORE™||

    Like many others have pointed out, I think the poll #s are effectively meaningless

    The problem with millenials isn't that they favor capitalism or socialism, but rather that they dont remotely understand either. Of course that's not unique to them either - prior generations are only a little better.

    It's like polling on the ACA which shows 50% like it (or don't). The problem is that only a tiny fraction of those polled have even used ACA markets or have any significant experience w other plans against which to compare it's current value-per-dollar

    Basically, most peoples opinions don't matter.

  • Uncle Jay||

    RE: Millennial Socialist Moment Mostly Media Hype
    Millennials may have mixed views of capitalism, but they hold socialism in even lower regard.

    I've read on another website that Comrade Bernie is considering running the Executive Office in 2020.
    I hope so.
    I could use some comic relief.

  • Rebel Scum||

    So what about Bernie?

    Who cares? What about men?

    there's room for this dissatisfaction to go in all sorts of different and unexpected directions.

    There's room for my satisfaction to go different and unexpected directions as well. //rimshot

  • Rebel Scum||

    Whoops. Link.

  • Tony||

    The Bernie thing was just a common minor cult thing. It gave the country to Donald Trump, but I feel like Bernie could be selling free kicks to the nuts and those bearded college weirdos would have eaten it up. I genuinely believe it had more to do with the certain cadence to his voice than any actual policy ideas. Those losers did hate Hillary Clinton more than they cared about anything. I'd honestly rather hang out with libertarians. Say what I will about you, you guys haven't really formed a cult around a politician since Ron Paul turned out to be a Nazi or whatever. So kudos for that.

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    I'd honestly rather hang out with libertarians.

    *takes a rip and passes the freedom pipe to Tony*

  • Tony||

    And you probably won't even ask whether it's conflict-free bud, will you?

  • Half-Virtue, Half-Vice||

    Blood bud is best bud.

  • DOOMco||

    90% of my friends want more government.
    I'm 25.

  • swampwiz||

    The fact is that a certain level of socialism IS popular - e.g., ObamaRomneyHeritageCare in as much as it is a socialist redistribution to the lower-income folks so that they can have health care. Also, socialism is preferable to the capitalist system in whatever aspect of the economy in which either the inherent costs (e.g., hiring staff to market and collect rents) or the ability of cronyists (e.g., the monopolist cable company) to extract unnecessary rents, or the effects fo the socialization of the costs (e.g. the fossil fuel industry and anthropoclastic climate change), is more expensive than whatever loss of efficiency there would be by doing something the socialist way. And because of the way that young folks have to "buy into" getting the education to get a good job, they especially see how the socialization of education would be good for them.

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