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How Maryland 'Neomasculinity' Blogger Roosh V Became an International 'Pro-Rape' Villain

A case study of collective catharsis through call-out culture and moral panic as meme.

Roosh V/YouTubeRoosh V/YouTubeFor a minute, it felt like we were on the world's most mundane secret mission: at 6 p.m., you will be emailed a secret location in Dupont Circle. Talk to no one about it. Enter through the bar and proceed down into the basement area—if anyone asks, say you're looking for Luke. There, awaiting you, will be... a conference table full of bloggers and a raging narcissist pissed at the media. Woo-hoo, Saturday night!

The reason for all this intrigue was a press conference hosted by 36-year-old writer Daryush Valizadeh, better known as "Roosh V." Though he started out in the mid-aughts preaching the gospel of "pickup artistry," that particular phenomenon has fallen out of vogue. Now Roosh heads up what he calls the "neomasculinity" movement, using his blog and the men's website Return of Kings as headquarters, along with selling self-published books about how to bang women in other countries. Until last week, he was mostly unknown outside avid followers and avid opponents. But that changed when Roosh arranged social meetups for fans in cities around the world, and a lot of activists, journalists, and politicians lost their collective minds about it.

Make no mistake: I am no fan of Roosh's writing or worldview, though I find his schtick more sleazy than terrifying, more Milo Yiannopoulos than "KKK of misogyny." On the way to Saturday's press conference, a journalist friend with me had much better humor about the whole spectacle. The self-important security scheme, the aggrieved victimhood dripping from Roosh's tweets—he was clearly loving this, and a part of me hated feeding into it. But I was going, out of a combination of curiosity, the potential newsworthiness, and it falling into the category of "too weird not to."

But perhaps Roosh was only responding in kind to the sort of paranoia with which he'd been greeted around the globe all week. 

In Australia, Immigration Minister Peter Dutton said he would consider denying a Roosh a visa. He told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation that "Australia doesn’t welcome people to our country who disrespect women." In general, Australian media reported on a Roosh tweet saying "The border is weak. I will get in" and "I have the funds to get in by boat through one of multiple weak points. Money is no barrier to the operation" as if they were deadly serious. 

@RooshV/Twitter@RooshV/TwitterThe U.K. House of Commons debated Roosh on February 4, during which Kate Green MP asked for Return of Kings fans to be deemed a "hate group"—a designation that that would make membership illegal. Home Office minister Karen Bradley MP noted that "the home secretary has powers to exclude an individual who is not a British citizen" if their presence isn't "conducive to the public good"—though she "cannot comment on individual cases"—and said she would consult with internet service providers and sites such as Facebook about possibly banning Return of Kings content. More than 40,000 people signed an online petition calling on authorities to ban Roosh from entering the U.K. and to "take all available action in this case to prevent [fan] meetings taking place," citing their "terror against women" as justification.

similar online petition, this one signed by more than 45,000 people, warned that "there is strong evidence indicating that 'RooshV' has entered Canada and is in Montreal. We ask Mayor Bonnie Crombie of Mississauga, Mayor John Tory of Toronto, and Mayor Denis Corderre of Montreal to denounce 'RooshV' and to urge local businesses and organizations to deny him accommodation while in Canada." The petition claimed that Roosh would be coming to Canada in violation of section 319 of the Canadian Criminal Code, which bans meeting for the purpose "of inciting hatred of an identifiable group."

In America, Republican Gov. Greg Abbott put out an official statement that "this pathetic group and their disgusting viewpoints are not welcome in Texas."

District of Columbia police indicated that they had an eye on a scheduled meetup in the nation's capital. Des Moines, Iowa, police put out a Facebook message warning that the meetups "may be a ruse to commit rape. We have no information that this will actually take place but we recommend that no one, men or women go to any of the sites."

At Chicago's Loyola University, sexual assault survivors were warned to avoid the area where one local meetup was scheduled, a meetup local police said they were "well aware" of and would be "monitoring." At the University of Rochester in New York, campus admins called in extra school security officers and city police for a meetup there, sending out an all-campus alert that Roosh "offers extreme writings based on his philosophy of Neomasculinity."

The school "does not believe the event will actually happen, but is still taking precautionary measure to ensure student safety," the local Democrat and Chronicle reported. These measures included consulting with the New York State Intelligence Center, which decided that there was "no evidence to suggest a gang, group, or organization is involved."

'The Most Hated Man in America'

At Saturday's press event, five women and maybe a dozen men fill the room, folks I would soon learn work for places such as The Washington Post, DCist, Wonkette, Washingtonian magazine, Vice, The Daily Beast, and a German television station. At a few minutes after 7 p.m., Roosh comes charging through the door, sizing everyone up, barking orders about who could film where and complaining about the room's low energy. Within minutes, he says—not entirely chagrined—that he's been called the "most hated man in America."

Though their demeanors are very different and their views opposed, Roosh reminds me of another Internet-famous man who was called that, Hugo Schwyzer. A former Pasadena Community College professor and male-feminist writer for places like Jezebel and The Atlantic, Hugo's sex scandals (sleeping with students among them) and public mental-health breakdown—playing out in real time on Twitter—were very much a big thing from my vantage point in the women's blogosphere. Not only was everyone on feminist Twitter talking about it, but Schwyzer was also covered in a lot of mainstream American and U.K. outlets. A hashtag, #SolidarityIsForWhiteWomen, sprung up around allegations that Schwyzer had fucked over feminists of color. The U.K. Telegraph suggested he might be "evil incarnate."

A few years later, in D.C., whenever I've mentioned Schwyzer to writer friends or colleagues, no one knows anything about him. That the whole dramatic Hugo saga had only really been relevant and salient to a small segment of the Internet, I was sure—but I hadn't realized how truly small that segment was. "Male feminist sex scandal" gets clicks, but it doesn't stick in people's minds. I bring it up because I think this Roosh situation is very similar. The story has been magnified out of all proportion because for a lot of traffic-thirsty web writers or editors, putting "pro-rape activists" in headlines or tweets is too good to pass up—even if it may not technically be true and props up a man and movement they claim to abhor. But while it's likely to have limited reach and flash-in-the-pan stickiness for most, the Roosh situation is still interesting as a case study of collective catharsis through call-out culture and moral panic as meme. 

The root of the "pro-rape" accusation is a Roosh blog post ("How to Stop Rape") that proposes legalizing rape on private property. Roosh claims it was "a thought experiment" or satire—a disclaimer on the post now says as much—and says he doesn't think rape should be legal anywhere. Many protest that Roosh's P.S. isn't authentic. And even if it is, "the idea driving this 'satire' seems to be either that women are usually responsible for their own rapes, or that they routinely call something rape when it isn't," Emily Crockett writes at Vox.

But call it a "thought experiment" or call it trolling, I do think Roosh was being deliberately hyperbolic and provocative, as is his style, and does not believe in literally legalizing rape.

Regardless, though, does it matter if his original intent was earnest proposal if he since recanted? It shows the so-called "social justice warriors" won. Or, in less absurd terms: sane and individual-autonomy respecting views are such the social norm that even someone who states outright that his ideal society is "traditional" and "patriarchal" won't publicly condone sexual violence against women.

Literary Affect

At the press conference, Roosh tends to minimize his more outrageous statements. Perhaps it's all smoke and mirrors, but what emerges is a picture much less flattering to the international Lothario image Roosh projects but much more flattering to him as both a savvy self-brander and a human being. 

"Macho sex writing—to convert that to 'rape' takes such a leap of faith that you have to be a liar," he says when about scenes in his series of "bang books" that have been described as pro-rape.

"You literally say they were 'too incapacitated' to consent," challenges Washington Post writer Caitlin Dewey.

"Macho sex writing is not a court," Roosh fires back. "It's not a piece of evidence....Maybe some things [in the books], I wanted to come across as an aggressive guy. Maybe I do. But just because it's [in the books] doesn't mean that there is a victim out there and she suffered. Have I raped anyone? No."

So the stories were fiction? asks another reporter. No, said Roosh—but maybe they were his "interpretation" of his events.

The bottom line, though, is that "not a single woman has been hurt by me," says Roosh. "I've never been accused of rape, I've never been charged. No follower of mine has read something of [mine], and then gone on to rape, because I know if they did hurt a woman it'd be all over the news." 

The whole thing calls to mind two more male writers: Matt Taibbi, probably best known for his work at Rolling Stone, and Mark Ames, who now writes for outlets such as Pando. The pair worked together at an English-language newspaper in Russia in the late '90s and subsequently published a book about the experience called The Exile: Sex, Drugs, and Libel in the New Russia. Within this book, there are scenes of the mostly-male Exile editors sexually harassing their administrative staff—going so far as to tell secretaries they must sleep with them to keep their jobs—and Ames threatening to kill his pregnant Russian girlfriend if she doesn't get an abortion. The men never claimed at the time that it was satire or fiction. In explaining, Ames was prone to saying things like "Russian women, especially on the first date, expect you to rape them."

Despite this, Taibbi and Ames have continued to flourish as leftist writers, and as far as I know no feminist groups or Canadian mayors have tried to prevent either from visiting the country. Perhaps they're just lucky to have come of age in a different Internet era. Perhaps it helps that their politics and progressive credentials are otherwise right. 

None of Roosh's views are right, from the left's perspective. From the perspective of most Americans, really. His work routinely stresses that women should be "submissive," that their highest value is as sex objects and mothers, and that America would be greater if only women were skinnier and had less sex outside marriage.  

But while such views on gender roles are far from normative in 21st-century America, it's not as if they're relegated solely to Roosh and his crowd. There are still a good deal of evangelical Christians who preach female submission to their husbands, with a lot of blogs kept about the subject. There's a lot of popular music about how bitches ain't shit. There are immigrants from many cultures where egalitarian gender roles aren't standard. We don't—and shouldn't—prevent any of these groups from meeting or monitor them when they do.  

What's more, people with sexually deviant turn-ons or loony, bigoted, and just plain unpopular ideas get together all the time. Unless there's evidence they're plotting something criminal, authorities should back the fuck off, really.

Freedom of the Manosphere

As much as we might hate to admit it, Roosh is a journalist. His main site, Return of Kings—one of the hubs of what's sometimes called the "Manosphere"—and its forums get nearly two million visits per month. As neither Roosh nor any writers or readers of Return of Kings were under suspicion of criminal behavior, it is at the very least bizarre that law-enforcement officials would feel the need to comment and keep an eye on their gathers. And it's probably the kind of thing we should condemn, those of us interested in freedom of speech, press, movement, and association.

People will object that these groups were "pro-rape" meetups. But outside media misinformation, there was nothing about the proposed happy hours to suggest they had anything to do with rape.

"Starting on [January 31], a lot of you have lied by saying I am a 'pro rape advocate,'" Roosh tells the press gathered with him Saturday. Outlets also said the fan meetups were about "learning how to rape. 'They're going to exchange tips.' Some of you have even called it a rape rally. A rape—what the hell is that, a rape rally?"

There was no public elements planned for the 163 gatherings. Roosh calls them "social happy hour[s]" where men could "meet in private to talk about anything—work, politics, girls." The plan for each was to meet in a public place and then migrate to a nearby bar. 

Subjecting these men to police surveillance and intimidation based on the state's perception of a publication they like seems a bit totalitarian, no? Let the bitter, horny, heterosexual men have a safe space, too.

Do You Even Lift?

On February 3, a post on Return of Kings announced that the meetups would be canceled. "I can no longer guarantee the safety or privacy of the men who want to attend," Roosh wrote. "While I can’t stop men who want to continue meeting in private groups, there will be no official Return Of Kings meetups."  

ENBENBAt Saturday's press event, someone asks why Roosh's cadre of alleged alpha-men would cancel get-togethers over a little thing like feminist protests or a few police cars. "Because you have gotten governments involved by lying about their intention," he responds. "Now the world thinks they're going to meet to, uh, to rape people. So why are they going to meet now? Do you think it's smart now for them to go and meet after that?"

Roosh goes on to suggest this reporter himself certainly wouldn't have gone in those circumstances, adding, "I mean, do you lift?"

It is hard to tell if this is performance or not, creating a psychic uncanny valley not dissimilar to the effect of Donald Trump's—Roosh's favorite 2016 presidential candidate, by the way. Asked what he likes about Trump, Roosh replies that it's because "he hates you guys too. The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Someone suggests that hating the media isn't a political ideology. "But anti-establishment is," Roosh replies. 

Anti-media as he may proclaim to be, it's not inconceivable that Roosh organized and then canceled the social meetups precisely in order to gain media attention. Being prevented from meeting only fuels his followers' narrative of hysterical, punitive feminists and a "cucked" media beholden to identity politics. All of it drives more web traffic. 

Asked whether this controversy had been good for him, Roosh says it is "the best and the worst. I mean, what's going to happen now is I'm going to be known, in the media, as a 'pro-rape' advocate for the rest of my life. 'Oh, that's the guy that believes all women should be raped.' But at the same time, they're going to say, that's the guy, I know his name."

Roosh claims to live "somewhere in Europe," though he grew up in Maryland, where he says he's currently visiting family. He told Dewey he doesn't know why the house he claims is his mother's is registered under his name.

Media Malpractice

Roosh has no regrets about publishing the "How to Prevent Rape" essay, he says. "That article was making a point about personal responsibility, that a woman's safety is not only in the hands of men but it's in their own hands too. And I guess that point didn't get through, so on that account, I did fail. I failed to give the point. But that doesn't mean I did anything wrong."

Sexist pig or not—remember when people just called people sexist pigs or "chauvinists," instead of branding them dangerous on an international level?—Roosh is correct on some key points about modern media.

Asked if he could acknowledge that his writing was offensive, Roosh responds "So what if you're offended? So what if I make fun of you? Is that where we're at now, that we can't write things that hurt people's feelings? Good, get offended, feel something."

"Do I believe that a woman should submit to a man?" he says. "Yes. Does that mean that my family's address should be put online because of that, and the media staking out their home because of what I write? No."

After the hacker-collective Anonymous "doxxed" Roosh's family (i.e., revealed their home address online)—info since confirmed by The Daily Mail—Roosh says he has received "dozens" of threats of violence and arson. "Your work, and the work of your colleagues, has incited a mob, based on lies, that has put my family in danger," he chastises media Saturday. "If they get hurt right now, God forbid, it's because of you."

Roosh himself has been accused of inviting fans to dox journalists who cross him. But he insists he merely asked followers to gather publicly available information on journalists, such as their home cities and Twitter handles. "I never said I was going to share their address, that was another lie," he says Saturday. "It's like you guys can't stop lying." (Truly, the Taylor Swift of MRA bloggers, folks.) He complains that "it's like a game" for media, cutting-and-pasting from one another's stories when they see they're generating hits.  

There was a hint of "holy shit" in many of Roosh's statements, an incredulity that anyone who works or spends a lot of time on the Internet many sympathize with. Sometimes the media—mainstream, ideological, fringe, local, global, whatever—is just astonishingly bad. From the Chinese man who sued his wife for bearing ugly children to eggs being "as bad for you as smoking," the influx of Super Bowl sex-slaves to the hordes of sexist "Bernie Bros," the press routinely, en masse, gets things totally wrong.

Sometimes this is rooted in bias, but just as often it's a more economic than ideological imperative, a mandate to produce fast copy that generates good traffic. This means many writers take the veracity of other publications' reporting for granted. When the original account is incorrect, inaccuracies and distortions can spread like a game of Telephone from The Huffington Post to Jezebel to The Guardian, and so on. 

Asked whether he considers himself a victim, Roosh says "You know what, no. I take full responsibility for everything that I have done. But that doesn't mean that I can't state what you did wrong."

Vanity Virtue 

At The Washington Post, Caitlyn Dewey argues that "the number of people who actually follow Daryish Valizadeh is smaller than it looks."

"While his flagship website, Return of Kings, is well-trafficked—averaging slightly less than 2 million views per month, according to Similar Web—that number is not necessarily indicative of the size of Valizadeh’s following," writes Dewey. "On both Twitter and Facebook, Return of Kings has fewer than 13,000 followers. The site’s accompanying forums have registered 19,600 accounts, but half have never posted."

Dewey calls the whole Roosh situation "manufactured publicity on a scale that few fringe Internet movements have ever dreamed of." On Twitter, Roosh is milking it for all he can.

But on his blog, Roosh condemns the very sort of manufactured controversy he's complicit in. "Instead of focusing your anger on real problems in your neighborhood, city, and country, the media has made you emotional against a man who poses absolutely no threat to anyone," he chastises his opponents. "I’m being used as a target so that you can expend your rage on me instead of other entities that are genuinely hurting your standard of living."  

It's obnoxiously self-aggrandizing but...also not untrue. Roosh's assessment of what's hurting people's standard of living is probably vastly different than mine, as both are also vastly different from media-criticizing leftists like Freddie de Boer. But one thing we all agree on is a similar diagnosis: online media prioritizes sensationalism and righteous signaling over accuracy and nuance. This is far from ahistorical, of course, but it also makes modern media much less "progressive" than many in it would like to think.

At the end of Roosh's press conference, I come away feeling more charitable about him than I did going in, which could mean he's a good showman, a sociopath, someone conflicted (both Crockett and Emmett Rensin at Vox offer profiles to this effect), or simply that he's neither a terribly sympathetic person nor cartoonishly evil. In any event, the clickbaity portrayal of him as some outlandish misogynist villain, ready to storm Australia via private yacht and host how-to-rape seminars globally, overshadows more interesting and perhaps revelatory components of the manosphere phenomenon. 

If reporters had tried to talk to the men attending Return of Kings meetups, instead of insta-demonizing them, what might they have found? Rage-filled rape advocates? "Beta males" who "don't even lift?" How many of them? What way do they lean politically? What draws them to Roosh's writing? Are these guys with power, or guys trying to cope with not having power?

These would be informative things to know. Instead we have overblown fears and parody villains, predictable liberal responses, wasted opportunities. Rape is bad and good people should be against it—everybody got that? Because as common sense as that might be, it's also the only major takeaway an international press corps has established here.

The Return of Kings meetups gave the popular media and its acolytes the latest opportunity to assert their goodness, to feel the catharsis of raging in solidarity. But was even one person's opinion changed, or anyone's ability to understand one another increased? 

Photo Credit: Roosh V/YouTube

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  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    For a minute, it felt like we were on the world's most mundane secret mission: at 6 p.m., you will be emailed a secret location in Dupont Circle. Talk to no one about it. Enter through the bar and proceed down into the basement area—if anyone asks, say you're looking for Luke. There, awaiting you, will be... a conference table full of bloggers and a raging narcissist pissed at the media. Woo-hoo, Saturday night!

    Another Reason event?

  • Derp-o-Matic 5000||

    Nah, not enough dudes

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Now Roosh heads up what he calls the "neomasculinity" movement, using his blog and the men's website Return of Kings as headquarters, along with selling self-published books about how to bang women in other countries.

    I learned all I need to know about bangin' chicks in other countries from ISIS and Boko Haram, thank you very much.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Make no mistake: I am no fan of Roosh's writing or worldview

    Wait, what?

  • Hugh Akston||

    Switch to decaf

  • Hamster of Doom||

    He's in training. One day Fist came to him, and he said, "'I am not Fist of Etiquette. I inherited the duty from the previous Fist of Etiquette, just as you will inherit it from me. The man I inherited it from is not the real Fist of Etiquette either. His name was Cummerbund. The real Fist has been retired 15 years and living like a king in Baja Mexico."

  • Suicidy||

    All lies. Fist is really centuries old. Maintaininghis existence through occasional immersion in rejuvenative Lazarus Pits hidden around the world.

  • Ed Kline||

    Santiago.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    I'm trying to get it all in now, before Roosh V, Men's Rights Isn't Just a River in Egypt gets published.

  • Citizen X||

    Johnny Longtorso has the most confused boner right now.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Haven't seen him lately. Suspicious....

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

    My boner is never confused.

  • Pay up, Palin's Buttplug!||

    He pulled a Buttplug?

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    I've not heard any good things about Roosh V, but that Australia pic is gold.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    It's hard not to admire an epic trolling.

  • WoodchipperPatriarch||

    Really makes you wish we had a better class of troll around here.

  • Derp-o-Matic 5000||

    Most of us don't spend enough time on the social medias to be able to troll at that level.

  • UnCivilServant||

    So the guy's an asshole, so fucking what? That's not grounds for censorship.

  • UnCivilServant||

    *that comment was directed at the hordes of shrieking eels and not the reason writer. I only skimmed the article proper.

  • ||

    Well according to feminists it is.

  • Suicidy||

    Lots of people are assholes. And I've never even heard of this guy. But if his position on women is that they must quit their bitchin' amd get back to the kitchen to bake the menfolk a pie, then I fully support him.

  • Derp-o-Matic 5000||

    So the guy's an asshole, so fucking what? That's not grounds for censorship.

    You're just thinking with your privilege and not with your FEELZ.

  • buybuydandavis||

    He should be thinking with *their* FEELZ.

  • SusanM||

    "The border is weak, I will get in"

    You know who else...?

  • UnCivilServant||

    1.5 million "Syrians"?

  • Medical Physics Guy||

    Hey they're "children" so be nice

  • JWatts||

    Wait, I was told that some were women.

  • Citizen X||

    Pancho Villa?

  • Aloysious||

    Zika virus?

  • WTF||

    My landscaper?

  • WoodchipperPatriarch||

    My chiropractor?

  • Sudden||

    The people chained up in Warty's basement?

  • Anomalous||

    Genghis Khan?

  • Suicidy||

    Khan Noonien Singh?

  • Mr Lizard||

    Every Klingon Bird of Prey?

  • Suicidy||

    Romulan Warbirds too.

  • ||

    At Chicago's Loyola University, sexual assault survivors were warned to avoid the area where one local meetup was scheduled, a meetup local police said they were "well aware" of and would be "monitoring."

    So sad I didn't get to counter-protest this.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    A similar online petition, this one signed by more than 45,000 people, warned that "there is strong evidence indicating that 'RooshV' has entered Canada and is in Montreal. We ask Mayor Bonnie Crombie of Mississauga, Mayor John Tory of Toronto, and Mayor Denis Corderre of Montreal to denounce 'RooshV' and to urge local businesses and organizations to deny him accommodation while in Canada."

    Roosh V looks suspiciously like a Syrian refugee, BTW.

  • UnCivilServant||

    Based on the evidence at hand, RooshV is actually the less rapey of the two.

  • PapayaSF||

    LOL

  • kbolino||

    Aw, I love it when the mask comes off. Who would have thought that the feel-good notion of "public accomodation" would be utterly debased by their own hypocrisy...

  • perlchpr||

    Wait, is anyone actually surprised by that?

  • kbolino||

    I don't know. I'm not.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    "proceed down into the basement area"

    Where he lives?

  • UnCivilServant||

    She got the Warty invite instead.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Unpossible. She wrote this article-- which is about as long as a Wikipedia article on an episode of Deep Space 9.

    What I'm getting at is she survived.

  • Social Justice is neither||

    Or Warty is impersonating her.

  • Ivan Pike||

  • Charles Easterly||

    Ever heard of "Roosh V"?

    I recommend doing a brief web search and then forgetting about him.

    - by Charles Easterly

    (Charles Easterly is not a writer or editor of any sort, perhaps for obvious reasons.)


    P.S. I usually enjoy ENB's work, as she and others may recall from a majority of my previous comments. I think she gives this man far too much attention here, in a "feeding the troll" sort of way.
    -C

  • Elizabeth Nolan Brown||

    What I hope at least comes across somewhat is that I don't think Roosh per se matters, but the fact that he has a lot of fans might, and the way the media and government officials reacted is definitely something worthy of noting.

  • Charles Easterly||

    What I hope at least comes across somewhat is that I don't think Roosh per se matters, but the fact that he has a lot of fans might, and the way the media and government officials reacted is definitely something worthy of noting.

    I think you expressed that quite well, ENB.

    I suppose I thought that you spent more time discussing the individual than was necessary to make your salient points, even though it's your time to spend.

  • WoodchipperPatriarch||

    It was worth reading just for the subheading.

  • buybuydandavis||

    The fact that the powers that be gave him way too much attention is the story.

  • Bill||

    I thought your points at the end that the reporters could
    have actually done some real journalism were excellent!

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    I think this is a worthy story as "a case study of collective catharsis through call-out culture and moral panic as meme." It's more about that than about Rooshy.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    Rooshy is what his close friends call him.

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    What I don't understand is why Roosh's misogyny is treated like such a big deal, but the racism at Return of Kings never even gets brought up.

    Matt Forney is basically a white nationalist and is a writer in good standing over there.

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    Oh, that reminds me of the time misogyny and racism hilariously mixed at Return of Kings - when one of their writers attended a white nationalist conference and got kicked out of a bar for bothering women.

    Here:

    "Some people are telling a story about me getting drunk at AmRen. Personally I don’t know why they found a story about a drunk guy acting stupid at a conference so interesting, since it is nothing unusual. Perhaps they have boring lives and are looking for drama. Their fixation on gossip is in stark contrast to the scholarly impression I got of the organizers. But the Kings Media team thought it would be best if I gave my side of the story, even though very few of them are upset at me."

    "On the first night, I got very drunk. If I were wise, I would have gone to bed after the speakers, but instead I went to a nearby bar with the other guys. I went around asking girls to dance, because I wanted to use the swing lessons I had taken. All of them rejected me, because no girl likes an obnoxious wasted guy.

    A few young girls were being especially snarky. I knew they wouldn’t dance with me, but I decided to ruin their night anyway. I go up to them and say, “You’re fat, and I’m balding. Let’s dance.” They kept saying no, and I kept asking them, just to piss them off. One pushed me, and I pushed her back, and then the bouncer literally threw me out of the bar. Someone led me up to sit by the curb."

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    "Every single word of that is a lie. Sitting in the grass, I apologized profusely to the AmRen people around me and continued to repeat, “The is at least half my fault,” in an annoying drunken humility. I certainly didn’t say the fat girl was entitled to waltz with me, and Parrot’s claim of that makes me wonder if he’s trying to slander ROK as being everything the feminists claim it is.

    And Forney didn’t do anything in private except tease me about it, and if it were resolved, then Parrot wouldn’t be telling the world the embarrassing qualities of AmRen’s attendees, although it appears telling such stories on blogs is weirdly the norm for the many conference attendees. I’m hoping this is just an errant memory of his and not him trying to smear the red pill movement."

    This is why anyone freaking out about Roosh's goons is an idiot. These are some of the most pathetic people on the planet. They are not a threat to anyone.

  • Citizen X||

    And Irish knows from racism!

    Irish is so racist, he won't listen to any music with a percussive element.

  • WTF||

    Or using a pentatonic scale.

  • Suicidy||

    As the former triangle player for Guns & Roses, I too advocate against percussion. It takes available groupie pussy away from the triangle player in the band.

  • lap83||

    You're upset that a white nationalist isn't getting enough attention? Big surprise

  • UnCivilServant||

    The BBC once did a hit piece chop job of one of his presentations, and even with brutal mid-sentence editing, they couldn't even make the guy more than mildly offensive. That alone tells me the rest of the screeching is mere hype and bullshit.

  • ||

    They couldn't possibly give him better and more rewarding attention than this. Streisand Effect in action.

  • John||

    I think most of the feminists bitch about this want his attention. The PUA and feminist community just need to co-locate a big convention somewhere and let what everyone paying attention knows each side wants to happen, happen.

  • ||

    That they want to bludgeon each other to death?

  • John||

    Its a thin line between love and hate Epi. And if the joint convention ends in torrid feminist PUA sex or a blood bath is of no concern to me. Either way, they will both shut up for a while.

  • ||

    I don't think the line is all that thin in these cases, John. Hate seems to be way more powerful. It seems to be mostly everything.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Agreed. Roosh and his band of not-so-merry men should be ridiculed and soon forgotten.

  • John||

    I get it that picking up women is hard, especially when you are young and don't know very much or are socially awkward. Some guys need to learn how. The PUA community takes a sensible notion to an absurd extreme.

    First, even if the techniques do work, how could anyone over the age of 15 think banging tons of random women to be the key to happiness? Yes, it is nice to get laid. And if you were a true sociopath who just didn't care or maybe a traveling musician who just never had to see the women again, constantly scoring with strange women would be fun. For everyone else, it is not so simple as just banging them and not calling them back. I am not going to claim I banged a bunch of women when I was single but I certainly knew people who did and their lives never looked that happy. The entire thing quickly turned into one giant pain in the ass as women got their hooks into them and they ended up constantly trying to avoid commitment while two and three timing the women who they just couldn't walk away from.

    The whole thing strikes me as a ticket to nothing but aggravation. Just be yourself and not worry about it. Who cares if some broad won't sleep with you. She is probably saving you a lot of aggravation. Meanwhile, relax. You will get laid. Everyone, even the real closet cases, does eventually.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    First, even if the techniques do work


    As the Daily Mail points out, the man literally lives in his mother's basement.

    All this lollapalooza about a glorified Penthouse Letter writer.

  • John||

    Its funny as hell that these people think there is some mystery to picking up women. You know what attracts women? The same thing that has always attracted women, power and or a bank account. The rest is just rationalization.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    And politeness, positive treatment of animals, and kind eyes.

  • John||

    If you are magically transformed into an alternative universe where The Notebook is real maybe. In this universe, all that kind of stuff just gives women a reason not to feel guilty about dating you for your bank account or power.

  • Florida Man||

    If you honestly believe this, I feel bad for you. Are there gold digging women out there? Of course, but that isn't all women. If it is, you have to account for all the women that have had their bank account drained by lazy men.

  • John||

    It is not the entire truth. The world is more complex than that. It is however certainly part of the truth. Women are attracted to money and power. There is no denying that. If your goal in life is to get laid a lot, figure out a way to make a lot of money or get a lot of power.

  • Florida Man||

    I think if you want to have lots of sex with random women, yes money and power attract shallow women. I stand by not all or even the majority of women are that greedy.

  • John||

    Women almost always marry men who make more money than they do. You see powerful men marry women who are lower down the economic food chain but you almost never see women do it.

    I don't know if that makes them shallow. I don't think that women are all just gold diggers. It is just that for whatever reason a man with more power and money than they have is naturally more attractive to them. That doesn't mean that every woman will jump into bed with any man who has power and money. It just means that the set of men that a woman would want to be with is nearly always contained entirely within the larger set of men who have more money and or power than she does.

    You can make of that what you like. It is however the truth.

  • Florida Man||

    women tend to make make less money than men in general, so generally they are going to marry men who make more than them. I'm not going into why women tend to make less because I think you know about it.

  • John||

    women tend to make make less money than men in general, so generally they are going to marry men who make more than them. I'm not going into why women tend to make less because I think you know about it.

    If the trend were small, then that might make sense. It is, however not small. It is nearly universal. So claiming that women in general make less money than men explains it, is utter nonsense.

    The truth is what it is. If you don't like it, go live in another universe or something.

  • ||

    you almost never see women do it.

    Carly Fiorina, Marissa Mayer, Hillary Clinton, just off the top of my head. I could go over to the entertainment world to pull out more names you'd know.

  • ||

    Oh, and my best friend, but you wouldn't know him. Wife is an EVP for B of A, he's a fireman.

  • WTF||

    John's point is more accurate if you instead of "power and money" you substitute "status" or "percieved status".

  • JoblessBoss||

    At heart, I think women tend to be attracted to the traits that lead to money, power, and, importantly, as you put it, status. Ambitious guys are likely to accumulate money or status (even if it's just big fish in a small pond status within a small, parochial social circle), and men who want to do things are more interesting than men who don't. Intelligent, hard-working men will be socially and economically successful, and women will respond to them. Not much mystery. If you're the kind of person who is likely to succeed in life, women will be attracted to you. Get a job, be smart with your money, have goals and ambitions, throw in a little charisma, you're life will be happier in almost all metrics. Even if the woman falls madly in love with you for your prince charming heart, all the outward indicators are still likely to be what caught her attention in the first place.

  • John||

    Carly Fiorina, Marissa Mayer, Hillary Clinton

    Bill was an up and coming politician and Rhodes Scholar when Hillary married him. Hillary made her entire career from marrying a powerful man. She is an example of what I am talking about.

    And anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. It doesn't disprove the fact that women overwhelming don't do that. It is called an exception to the rule.

    Jesus tap dancing Christ old man, do you just deny statistics and reality whenever it doesn't fit your narrative?

  • ||

    But she makes and has made far more money that Bill. Or when you said "makes more money" you meant "blagga diggy dooo"? Nice way to shift the argument, perhaps the concussion treatments are helping.

  • buybuydandavis||

    Bill's power is the machine that made the money making possible.

  • Charlotte Falcon||

    He said money or power

  • John||

    So Old man, out of a population of 150 million or so women, you are going to give three examples, one of which is false, as your response to "women almost never do it"?

    Is that your final answer? Is that the hill of retard you really want to die on?

  • ||

    How many more do you need before your concussed brain understands that lots of women make more money than the men they marry? And that, crazy as it sounds, lots of people choose mates based on other things?

    Just curious, when your wife left you, was it because your DHS job didn't pay enough?

  • John||

    You can give me a dozen. It still won't change the undeniable fact that women overwhelmingly do not marry down. The statistics are what they are and no amount of "but I know someone who didn't do that" changes them.

    Again, anecdotes don't disprove the overall truth. They just show not every woman is the same. They don't show that the vast majority of them don't in fact marry up rather than down.

  • Sudden||

    No John, the central thesis of the manosphere, and I'd recommend "the rational male" for the scholarly discussion of courtship, is that women have a dual mating strategy. Securing the genes of the perceived most fit and the provisioning and resources of the most successful. Occasionally one finds a man who possesses both. Often not. The central point is that what arouses sexually is different from what is sought in a relationship, which is note driven by security considerations.

  • You're Kidding||

    You guys need to study up on your anthropology. There are valid, survival of the species reasons that these are the driving factors in our coupling up.

    However, I do like to think that we've learned to be somewhat above the fornication and random couplings of barnyard animals. Often to have such thinking dashed by what I see going on all around me. :-(

  • Chipper Morning Wood||

    Yeah, let's fucking generalize all of womanhood to a couple of bromides. How about this deep insight: different women are attracted to different things. You know, perhaps women are, like, individuals? Jeesus Christ, this is retarded coming from supposed libertarians.

  • John||

    How about this deep insight: different women are attracted to different things.

    Sure overwhelmingly one of those things is money and power. Again, look at the statistics. Here is just one example
    http://www.asanet.org/journals.....eature.pdf

    Women overwhelmingly tend to marry men who make more money than they do and are more likely to leave their husbands if that changes.

    Saying "lets not generalize" just means it is not true for every single woman. It doesn't mean that there are not things that are not generally true.

  • ||

    Sure overwhelmingly one of those things is money and power.

    As a man, I find that incredibly attractive in a woman.

    Failing that, there's children.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    How about this deep insight: different women are attracted to different things. You know, perhaps women are, like, individuals?

    Peddle that sissy trash elsewhere, Jane Austen. Chicks dig money, power, and respect, and as my countless hours of watching pornography have taught me, a large penis attached to a freshly waxed body.

  • Chipper Morning Wood||

    ", and as my countless hours of watching pornography have taught me, a large penis attached to a freshly waxed body."

    And there I thought you were gonna say, based on your porn experience, bear costumes and lollypops.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Don't project your kinks on to me.

  • Chipper Morning Wood||

    "Don't project your kinks on to me."

    As if. I hate lollypops.

  • lap83||

    You're both wrong,

    Tall, a sense of humor, and useful skills

  • lap83||

    That said, power and a bank account probably help a lot if you are short, unpleasant, and useless

  • Francisco d'Anconia||

    SHIT! I'm powerless, poor, short, unpleasant and useless.

    AND have a small penis.

  • gaoxiaen||

    You should move to Oz.

  • Eman||

    you can't get ALL the fairy dust

  • Florida Man||

    My wife tells me that what drew her to me was my eyes and sense of humor. She also likes that I'm handy around the house.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    It's nice that she told you that.

  • ||

    My wife said it was because of my pizza.

  • ||

    Oh, and my enormous penis. But she had the pizza first.

  • You're Kidding||

    What ever happened to country songs on this subject?

    One for the money. Two to rock and roll.

    http://www.metrolyrics.com/one.....ppard.html

  • Chipper Morning Wood||

    Big, kind rabbit eyes. And a willingness to share.

  • ||

    John, you've cut through all the bullshit and made everything clear to me about women. Do you think you could maybe start some seminars that I could pay money to attend where you tell me more about this? As long as they're not in Australia, of course.

  • John||

    I like your thinking Episiarch. Do you have a newsletter? Do you do any paid consulting work helping people like me get their ideas off the ground?

    Could I get men to pay for a seminar that consisted of me telling them "get a fucking decent job and some bank or if you are too stupid to do that go become a cop or someone in uniform, if you want to get laid"?

  • ||

    I think you probably could; apparently CJ would sign up. I guess saying "if you just consider women to be individuals and treat them as such, you'll probably be fine" just won't make you any money.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    I guess saying "if you just consider women to be individuals and treat them as such, you'll probably be fine" just won't make you any money.

    I'm not paying you for that Nicolas Sparksian bullshit.

  • John||

    No it wouldn't. And neither would "stop measuring your life by how many times you get laid and realize that being with the wrong woman is more hassle than it is worth" probably wouldn't make much money either.

    Actual common sense never sells. Who wants that? The whole point of paying is to avoid facing reality not understand and embrace it as it is.

  • Chipper Morning Wood||

    John, while I agree with what you say, there is value in learning to improve one's social skills. Many socially-awkward guys that take these seminars just want to learn how to talk to women, and don't want to be players. I am always in favor of people that want to make themselves better people.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    I'm in, too. I need to learn.

  • R C Dean||

    The same thing that has always attracted women, power and or a bank account.

    A few thoughts.

    (1) For some women, there is no question that money and/or power is a primary consideration. See, also, "gold-diggers".

    (2) For women generally (note, generally, not in every case) it is important. Otherwise, "assortative mating" wouldn't be a thing (i think that's the right term for it when women tend to prefer to marry up).

  • John||

    As I say above; it is not that every woman will sleep with any man who has more money and power than they do. It is that for the vast majority of women the set of men that they find acceptable is almost or entirely within the larger set of men who have more money and power than they do. Women rarely marry down.

  • ||

    Women rarely marry down.

    How did that happen with you? Or is that why you couldn't sustain it?

  • Suicidy||

    Yep. A lot of chicks are basically Thalia Menninger.

  • ||

    (1) For some women people, there is no question that money and/or power is a primary consideration.

    This isn't limited to XX, it's a human trait, and as surprising as it is to some, women are human. Except my ex-wife.

  • John||

    Oh really old man? It is people not woman. I guess that is why Madeline Albright and Condi Rice were dating A List actors and male models just like Henry Kissinger did when he was Secretary of State. I mean men threw themselves at Janet Reno.

    Good God, are you trolling or do you actually believe this bullshit?

  • ||

    Good God, are you trolling or do you actually believe this bullshit?

    I can see that women are a mystery to you. One day, with enough treatment and care, you might find out that they are individual human beings. I know, I know, in your current state that seems crazy, but eventually with the help of medical science, your sense of reality may return (assuming it wasn't a congenital defect). And you may even be able to manage a long term relationship.

  • Suicidy||

    Individual human beings? Pfffffffttttt........they're objects. Sexual playthings, and domestic servants.

  • Illocust||

    Not true in the slightest. It's very common for men to marry down. Old rich guy/model, politician/stay at home wife, and executive/home wrecker are all expressions of this. We are starting to move from this being the primary form of marriage to equality in power/money between spouses, but it is still fairly common for men to marry below themselves.

  • John||

    Basically my advice to a man who wants to attract a woman is to get a job and a good bank account. And Florida Man and Old Man with Candy think that is heresy because they just know the good women only love what is inside of the man.

    Next up, they will explain how losing weight and making yourself more physically attractive is totally not the way for a woman to attract a man. You see men are not shallow like that or something.

    I honestly wonder sometimes if some of these people ever get out of the house.

  • ||

    Well, it's worked pretty well for me. But I don't have the concussion issue and the total asshole attitude about anyone with two X chromosomes, so you may need to use a prostitution arrangement. Everyone's different.

  • Suicidy||

    There are two things a woman can do to attract a man.

    1. Give better head.

    2. Be hotter.

    That is all.

  • You're Kidding||

    After the divorce, one can't really say that she is "below me". Her economic status rises to at least yours if not more.

    She gets half of yours and all of hers. It's only fair you know.

    As long as 100% of the pu$$y is controlled by women, men will be at a distinct disadvantage. It's just the way things are.

  • ||

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com.....x/abstract -- Ico [not calling a woman ill or locust] is right.

  • Suicidy||

    That doesn't cover the fucked up chicks that date deadbeat douchey dirtbags.

  • gaoxiaen||

    Hey! I resem...er... resent that comment.

  • Realpolotik||

    Most PUA advice seems to be 'run the numbers game'. Quantity over quality. Why get rejected for sex by one woman after putting in the effort to chase her, etc..., when you can get sex from that one woman who says "Yes", even though it means getting knocked back by 99 woman who say some iteration of 'No thanks,' to your "Hey baby, I think you're cute. Wanna bang?" It's only when you get your average up that they agree you'll be confident enough to work with the illusion of power and money (which you get by self-publishing your PUA guide).

  • kbolino||

    l like how the police show up to a cul-de-sac in Silver Spring dressed like it's a shell-shocked warzone.

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    Oh my God, he lives in the basement? Isn't he in his mid-30s?

  • Sudden||

    My understanding is that he's a man without a home. He spends a considerable amount of time living abroad so he's not concerned with keeping accommodations stateside.

  • Suicidy||

    George Hamilton is technically homeless too. He is basically a serial houseguest at various mansions owned by friends in places like Becerly Hills, or Monte Carlo. Gotta love homelessness when it's done by George Hamilton.

  • Harun||

    I once met a guy who had a wife, a girlfriend, and a mistress.

    After some questioning, I came away with the conclusion that it was a lot of work and not worth it.

  • Harun||

    The story about when he had a one-night stand going on and his wife and girlfriend had teamed up to find him and were banging on the door to get him to come out....

  • Suicidy||

    Ironically Trump has gotten oodles of smokin' hot rail through his life, and never been known to rape anyone. His eventual adversery's husband Bubba is the poster child for date rape, and rape rape.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    and never been known to rape anyone


    -1 Ivana (allegedly)

  • buybuydandavis||

    Ironically Trump has gotten oodles of smokin' hot rail through his life

    Famous, articulate billionaire gets laid often. The full story at 11.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

  • John||

    Mulatto,

    At least half of the population seems to be doing Masters or PHD level work in Assholeology. Reason is just looking to expand its reading base here.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    At least half of the population seems to be doing Masters or PHD level work in Assholeology.

    I loled.

  • ||

    But what about my advanced degree in Dicknology?!?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I haven't been impressed with the discipline's rigor.

  • ||

    I'm getting a minor in Viagra Studies to correct that!

  • ||

    Are you specializing in Applied Dicknology or Theoretical?

  • ||

    ^THIS

    Getting a degree in Dicknology isn't hard...

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Let's leave his excessive body hair out of this.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Is it trending on twitter? Then it's gonna get treatment.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    It really is the Streisand Effect. To put it in Millennial perspective, Matt Welch has over ten-thousand more Twitter followers then this guy.

  • GILMORE™||

    "Matt Welch has over ten-thousand more Twitter followers then this guy."

    Is that actually true?

    lol

    Roosh V =20K
    Matty = 32K

    jesus, that really does put into perspective how fucking retarded people are. and i'm not talking about Matt's twitter followers. I mean the fact that anyone gives a shit at all about some random guy and his PUA bullshit.

    as you said - it really is the Steisand Effect, where the media is just boosting an otherwise-entirely-insignificant persona into the public eye in order to pretend he's like the leader of an imaginary army of millions of misogynist reactionaries. It says more about the nature of online-journalism, and its petty-bullshit-amplifying nature.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Ok, but 10K of those are Tulpa's sock accounts.

  • SugarFree||

    10K of Roosh's or Matt's?

  • Jerry on the rocks||

    Yes.

  • This Machine||

    I kind of figure there's some Tulpa-sock overlap between the two, don't you?

  • SugarFree||

    Hmm... That is likely.

  • ||

    Matt has one thing that Roosh doesn't among his followers: Mary.

  • Long Woodchippers||

    I'm lucky if I can find two socks.

  • waffles||

  • Long Woodchippers||

    I never heard of this guy until some of my lefty friends on Twitter started going ape-shit this weekend.

  • Eman||

    if the media didn't report terrorism it wouldnt be terrorism, would it?

  • SugarFree||

    Does D.C. have good chili joints?

  • John||

    No it doesn't.

  • SugarFree||

    It didn't seem possible, but I thought I'd check.

  • John||

    I don't get out as much as I used to but if they are there, I have never been to one. A lot of people rave about the food culture in DC, but I am not one of them. Washington is utterly soulless. It is too far north to have real southern food and too far south to have the ethnic food that places like Philly and New York have. Everything here is fake. This is especially true when it comes to simpler food like Chili or Pizza. DC is full of shit hipster "Whatever Style" pizza joints but it is virtually impossible to find just a decent well made pizza.

  • Idle Hands||

    yeah the pizza here sucks.

  • Pompey||

    You guys should just get Papa John's! They have garlic butter sauce!

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    *narrows eyes*

  • Cliché Bandit||

    BRONCOS WON THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!
    BRONCOS WON THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!
    BRONCOS WON THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!
    BRONCOS WON THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!
    BRONCOS WON THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!
    BRONCOS WON THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!
    BRONCOS WON THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!
    BRONCOS WON THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!
    BRONCOS WON THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!
    BRONCOS WON THE SUPERBOWL!!!!!

  • KDN||

    Low bar alert: the pizza in DC is way better than in Baltimore.

    I had a decent slice of 2 AM greasepie at some joint in Adams Morgan last spring. The fact that it was slightly below the quality I would expect from a random takeout joint in Jersey leads me to believe that it must be the best pizza for 50 miles.

  • Californio||

    JFC - why would you find yourself in either place? DC vs Baltimore? And everyone is talking about this loser Roosh.....while they are in DC or ? I doubt anyone with a decent place in Georgetown is talking about "DC".

  • GILMORE™||

    "It is too far north to have real southern food and too far south to have the ethnic food that places like Philly and New York have'

    I've never lived in DC, but that's always been my impression. Its the kind of place where people think Quiznos is "a real Deli"

  • ||

    I had some greek food from around Walter Reed once that was pretty authentic.

    It gave me the screaming shits for about 3 days.

  • gaoxiaen||

    Just like when i get a jalapeno overdose. I have a love/hate relationship with Mexican food.

  • Chipwooder||

    I was introduced to Peruvian roasted chicken in DC when I was up there for work and a friend who lives there now took me there. So it's got that going for it.

  • John||

    That is a good point. The Peruvian Chicken joints kick ass.

  • Suicidy||

    Just as long as they have good deep dish pizza. That's all that matters.

  • Long Woodchippers||

    You have to find the locally owned ethnic places, usually in the 'burbs.

    Out in Sterling (Loudoun Co) you can find central American alongside Afghani. There are lots of good Salvadoran pupuserias around Dulles.

  • You're Kidding||

    "Everything here is fake."

    From your lips to God's ears.

  • WoodchipperPatriarch||

    Is there such a thing as a good chili joint?

  • R C Dean||

    Oh, hell yeah. I'm a New Mex guy, so they are few and far between outside of New Mexico, but they are very definitely a real thing.

  • Rasilio||

    Cincinnati would beg to differ

  • WoodchipperPatriarch||

    There's no such thing as a good anything in Cincinnati.

  • Idle Hands||

    some people like ben's chile bowl.

  • kbolino||

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Would.

  • Bill Dalasio||

    My God, I've never heard of a person who inspires such abject imbecility in their opponents. Does he make his supporters as retarded?

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    No, Roosh's supporters come pre-retarded.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    Pretarded?

  • Cliché Bandit||

    I am going to hell for laughing so hard at that.

  • ||

    They're just looking for a retarded sensei to tell them when to sweep the leg.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

  • ||

    Pinterest, Paul? Really? Taking lessons from Nicole now, are we?

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Isn't everyone on Pinterest?

    *looks around for confirmation*

  • ||

    I would never use a site that popular with women.

  • ||

    Right, right, I forgot that you're a PUA in your spare time.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    Those look like the kind of jeans that Russ Hanneman would wear. Are you gonna tell me that guy doesn't fuck?

  • Chipwooder||

    Rational thought does not exist in this dojo, does it?

    -NO SENSEI!

    Logic does not exist in this dojo, does it?

    -NO SENSEI!

  • Bill Dalasio||

    Oh, cool! Then he's bringing all of the 'tards together. Sort of a Pied Piper of Retard. That's nice.

  • PapayaSF||

    I am glad Ms. Brown did not fall for the "He wants to legalize rape!!" nonsense that's so widespread. I should think it would be obvious that his piece was trollish/Swiftian satire, and not a straight-forward policy proposal. But so many these days are s-o-o-o-o willing to be triggered by the "wrong" words that senses of humor are suppressed or dead, and everything must be taken Totally Seriously.

  • ||

    Yeah. I think that he's a piece of shit and that his site is shit, but when I read the supposed rape-advocacy piece when it first became a thing a while back it was blatantly obvious what it was going for, however stupid.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Isn't he kind of the Tom Cruise character from Magnolia?

  • Calidissident||

    To be fair, when it's coming from a guy who once said (in the context of describing a sexual encounter in some foreign country) "It would have been considered rape in America" I don't blame people for not excusing it on the basis of satire. A Modest Proposal would have been a lot darker if Jonathan Swift had previously admitted to eating Irish children.

  • Aloysious||

    I'm not on twitter, but this makes me want to join just so I can pester Elizabeth.

    Elizabeth N. Brown ‏@enbrown 6h6 hours ago

    How the fuck did I write 3,500 words about this Roosh V nonsense? I hate you all.
  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I'm proud of her self-awareness.

  • This Machine||

    Good, let the hate flow through you, Elizabeth.

  • SugarFree||

    Looking back, her years at Reason will seem like a GHB feverdream.

  • gaoxiaen||

    I read that as GHWB feverdream.

  • Knarf Yenrab!||

    Isn't libertarian commentary on pop culture "issues" (read: juvenile tedium) the whole point of Reason as compared to, say, all the sites that eulogize dead Austrian economists and their intellectual heirs?

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Isn't libertarian commentary on pop culture "issues" (read: juvenile tedium) the whole point of Reason as compared to, say, all the sites that eulogize dead Austrian economists and their intellectual heirs?


    Somewhere, Virgina Postrel sheds a solitary tear that slowly traces down her cheek, before dripping away from her chin to the cold laminate deck of a Reason cruise ship.

  • buybuydandavis||

    That was funny. Two points for ENB.

  • SIV||

    He's right about rape

  • DEATFBIRSECIA||

    The bottom line, though, is that "not a single woman has been hurt by me," says Roosh, adding "except in the pussy, of course."

  • Citizen X||

    He might not have a lot to work with, but goddamn does he work hard.

  • Suicidy||

    Many bitches crave a good deep dicking.

  • waffles||

    Between Rooshy and Shkreli, 2016 is shaping up to be 'the year of the troll'. I guess monkeys are practically nature's trolls. So sayeth the prophecy. Happy Chinese New Year!

  • Knarf Yenrab!||

    Make no mistake: I am no fan of Roosh's writing or worldview

    Robby! Stay away from Lizzie's computer when she's in the bathroom!

  • This Machine||

    Meh. The dude's a joke and overblown reactions from hysterical feminists just give him more attention than he deserves. If I want to embrace real "neo-masculinity," I'll go read something by Jack Donovan. At least he kind of looks the part.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Of course, like Roosh, the background of Donovan's work has always about his own particular sexual fetishes as well.; though, not without self-awareness as evidenced by this tribute to Yukio Mishima.

  • GILMORE™||

    Is this donovan character gay, and into sado-masochism?

  • ||

    Roosh sucks. Listen to some real music, you cosmos.

  • ||

    also: tldr;

  • Rich||

  • ||

    Oh thank god, I figured I was going to become retarded any day now.

  • Diane Reynolds (Paul.)||

    Become?

  • ||

    More retarded, Paul. Jeez, do I have to spell everything out? Who are you, Nicole?

  • ||

    Oh thank god, I figured I was going to become more retarded any day now.

  • SugarFree||

    No, that's going to happen from choking yourself while jerking off.

  • ||

    Can I have my kit back now, then?

  • Idle Hands||

    I bet you forgot about that gum you swallowed 7 years ago too.

  • R C Dean||

    Considering I smoked pot pretty much on a daily basis straight through college and law school, I can only say "No duh".

  • Longtorso, Johnny||

  • John||

    I wonder how much of that is due to some physiological cause and how much of it is due to the mental atrophy that would come with smoking pot every day for years on end. I would think spending every day blanked out of reality and forgoing high mental functioning would affect your mental abilities and memory regardless of whether you smoke pot.

  • Plàya Manhattan.||

    I heard that it makes you reply to the wrong comments.

  • John||

    Apparently so.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    Oh no, you replied to the rightest comment you could have replied to.

  • Cliché Bandit||

    John, our own personal national treasure.

  • gaoxiaen||

    Let's bury it.

  • AFSlade||

    "foregoing high mental functioning?" From smoking pot?? You don't smoke very much pot, do you? Are you a drug warrior, John? Honest question.

    Lots of jiu jitsu guys - high level ones - toke before grappling. And yes, it is seriously mentally difficult. And ask yourself how easy you think it is to play guitar like...well...any of the greats - Albert King, B.B. King, Hendrix, Buddy Guy, almost every blues guitar player ever... there's a lot of great music that doesn't exist without herb. And guitar playing takes tremendous focus and mental energy, as well as fine motor skill.

    Now excuse me while I go get my guitar and pipe....

  • Crusty Juggler||

    I'm glad you added the section in about Matt Taibbi. Matt Taibbi sucks.

  • Crusty Juggler||

    Sabrina Erdley should do one of her patented investigations into the allegations against Matt Taibbi.

  • Chipwooder||

    Why? There's no need to lie about Matt Taibbi, he really IS a piece of shit. You don't require the fictional stylings of Sabrina Erdley for that.

  • bacon-magic||

    Elizabeth,
    I enjoy reading your articles, even though I disagree I can still see your point. I stopped on this one though when you called out Evangelicals for their views on women but couldn't say a fucking thing about the Muslim religion which denigrates women to the nth degree. That's bullshit.

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    Really? So every time someone criticizes Evangelicals, they have to say "oh, and also Muslims" or you'll get upset?

    Plus, given total numbers, there are far more Evangelicals with ideas about women Elizabeth wouldn't like than there are Muslims with those opinions in this country. Muslims are 0.9% of the American population.

  • ||

    ^This.

  • bacon-magic||

    How many "honor killings" have those scary Evangelicals perpetrated? How about Muslim countries and women's voting rights? Ability to drive? Own property? Own personhood? Show me where the Evangevils are requiring women who were raped to be punished for not being around a blood relative or husband. Come on.

  • Heroic Mulatto||

    I would think an entire article about an Iranian-American named Daryush Valizadeh would have had your concerns covered.

    Jus' sayin'

  • bacon-magic||

    Touche. Good catch. Sorry I won't read the rest of this article.

  • bacon-magic||

    My point was ENB didn't use Islam as a prime example, when it clearly is a prime example. Oh well, shit happens. It's not like I hate her guts or anything, I actually like her writing style.

  • MJGreen - Docile Citizen||

    FFS, she's talking about 21st-century America. You're talking about Muslim countries on the other side of the world.

  • bacon-magic||

    I thought this Roosh article was a world wide thingy, what with Australia and UK being mentioned. My bad for not paying attention or just localizing it to make a broader point.

  • ant1sthenes||

    Is Reason solely concerned with the US?

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    And why stop with Muslims? Based on this rule, should I have to criticize every misogynistic group on Earth every time I criticize Evangelicals?

    "I disagree with Evangelicals about the place of women in society! Also Muslims! The other day I heard about Hindus treating women really badly in rural parts of India! And don't even get me started on domestic abuse in Russian society, particularly when alcohol is involved!"

  • ||

    ^Again, This.

  • bacon-magic||

    Muslims have the market on degrading women, to not state that is cowardly. No, I'm not nor ever was Evangelical, just thought that not calling out one of the biggest opponents of da wymens rights is crap.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    Muslims have the market on degrading women...


    Asserts facts not in evidence. Citation required.

  • bacon-magic||

    Use your google-fu...

  • Hamster of Doom||

    John did it first, and he did it better. Don't be a follower, BM. Be a leader.

  • bacon-magic||

    That's a cop(lol) out. I'm neither a leader or follower, just a human. Wrestle that thought on your wheel of woe.

  • bacon-magic||

    Here try this:
    Google "woman gets acid sprayed on face" and see how many of those are Islam related.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    Partial cite for one instance, I'll be generous. Seems a bit weak for your theory that they "have the market" - are we downgrading from "have the whole market" to "well, at least the corner with acid-to-the-face"?

    Big assertions need big data.

  • bacon-magic||

    For fuck's sake, go to a Muslim country with the same clothes and attitude and tell me how you fare.

  • bacon-magic||

    I will not cite something you can clearly look up yourself. But here is a partial list and you get back to me.
    Honor Killing
    Female Genital Mutilation
    Acid in Face torture
    Stoning of whores(otherwise know as women being punished for being rape)
    Koran and how women are to be subjugated

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    She was talking about 21st century America!

    Are there misogynistic Muslims in the US? Absolutely. They are not a major threat, however, and their misogyny tends to be more about women 'knowing their place' than about random acid attacks. Find me an instance of Muslims in the US stoning prostitutes. Come on - find me one example.

  • bacon-magic||

    Google "muslim stones woman in Michigan". Not a prostitute (I was being snarky, I even explained what I meant by "whore" in parenthesis) but it is there. I win. You lose. You're making this a cakewalk you racist! ;p

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    I googled that sentence and didn't find anything. Are you sure you aren't having a stroke? Care to give me a link to a reputable source?

    While we're at it, I can link you to sources about, say, Mormons engaged in institutional child rape. The existence of the FLDS does not imply this is a problem among the broader Mormon community. Even if you could find one instance of some Muslim killing someone with a rock, this doesn't prove anything other than that single Muslim is a crazy murderer.

  • bacon-magic||

    You caught meh, I've never once linked on here because I don't know how. *runs away crying in shame
    Btw, I started to try to link to it and it seems to be about a Christian group, not a woman. You were possibly right, and I am possibly wrong. For that I'm possibly sorry.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    Why would I have any desire to prove your assertion? It is your claim, and yours to back up if you wish others to ascribe to its utility.

    I'm going to take a wild guess. Anyone who doesn't invest research into proving your theories is handwaved away as "lazy".

  • Suicidy||

    He's right. Muslims pretty are the biggest single global source of brutal misogyny. It's incredibly fucking obvious. No sources need be cited.

  • Calidissident||

    Is acid thrown in the face the line at which a group can be criticized for its attitudes about women? And how common is that in the US?

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    "Muslims have the market on degrading women, to not state that is cowardly. No, I'm not nor ever was Evangelical, just thought that not calling out one of the biggest opponents of da wymens rights is crap."

    So what? Are Muslims in Afghanistan worse to women than any Christians in the Western world? Yes. It's still ridiculous to argue we need to bring up Muslims every time we criticize misogyny among non-Muslims. It's especially insane in the context of America, where there are a) very few Muslims and b) where the Muslims are much less conservative than Muslims globally. Tons of American Muslims are people like the Iranians who fled the rise of the Ayatollah in the '70s or Pakistani doctors. These people are not radical misogynists, so if you're talking about misogynistic religious practices among Americans, evangelical beliefs are more important to this country than Muslim beliefs.

  • bacon-magic||

    You don't want it brought up because of Open Borders...you know damn well that it what is being imported in(citation: Cologne immigrants) and it will be a problem in the future.

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    "You don't want it brought up because of Open Borders...you know damn well that it what is being imported in(citation: Cologne immigrants) and it will be a problem in the future."

    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

    I criticize Islam constantly. I also think you can criticize Evangelicals without having to bring up Islam every time. I also think that if you're talking about problems with religious misogyny IN THE UNITED STATES, you're going to find more Evangelicals with those beliefs than Muslims because there are so few Muslims in the US and those Muslims tend to be liberal by global standards.

    You're bringing up acid attacks in Bangladesh (which isn't an exclusively Muslim problem, btw - it also exists among Indian Hindus, so it's really a problem on the Indian subcontinent) when we're talking about 21st century America. Stop arguing beside the point and attacking ENB for failing to bring up stonings in Somalia when she's specifically talking about the US.

    I'm also against open borders.

    Swing and a miss.

  • John||

    I criticize Islam constantly. I also think you can criticize Evangelicals without having to bring up Islam every time.

  • ||

    If all ya got is tu quoque, well, that's what ya go with.

  • John||

    It's still ridiculous to argue we need to bring up Muslims every time we criticize misogyny among non-Muslims.

    Sure it is. But no one is saying that. The point is that either be balanced in your overall criticism of misogyny, meaning you criticize it wherever you find it, and make distinctions about its severity instead of treating it all equally bad or understand that your concern is just a weapon for you to use against your political enemies and in no way sincere.

    Don't talk to me about the horrors of America evangelical treatment of women and how bad that is for the country and then turn around and talk about how it is our moral duty to let Afghan and Somali refugees into the country, because clearly you are not that concerned about the number of misogynists in the country or you wouldn't be so keen on admitting those refugees.

  • bacon-magic||

    ^This

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    Are immigrants ENB's political enemies? Are gangster rappers? Because she mentioned both of them in the same paragraph, but you guys are only whining about one sentence regarding Evangelicals in a gigantic post.

  • bacon-magic||

    Irish,
    I like you and enjoy your comments. Please understand, this has nothing to do with fucking bible thumpers and everything to do with calling out the biggest culprits of female oppression.

  • Hamster of Doom||

    Bacon-Magic. Ultra Feminist.

    He's, just, so hardcore into women's rights and stuff. Y'all don't understand. It means something to him. Something special.

  • bacon-magic||

    Hamster of Doom,

    She's so furry and evil and craps a lot. I'm no feminist. But I do believe everyone should be equal under the law. I believe in individual freedom, liberty and ownership of property.

  • John||

    No. But immigrants are not the ones she is slandering with a giant false equivalence. Evangelicals are the ones she is slandering here. And they most certainly are her political enemy.

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    So when she compares Evangelicals to Roosh V. she's slandering them, but when she compares immigrant groups to Roosh V. she isn't slandering them. How do you determine who is being slandered and who is not?

  • John||

    So when she compares Evangelicals to Roosh V. she's slandering them,

    Do me a favor and reread my post. That is not the problem. The problem is when she compares them to people from places like Afghanistan. Her defense of Roosh is basically "what about all these other people". And that is fine as far as it goes. The problem arises when one of "the other people" is not quite like the others.

  • Calidissident||

    What false equivalence is there John? She never says evangelicals are just as bad as Islamic fundamentalists. The article is about Roosh V, who for all his faults isn't advocating stoning, acid throwing, etc. as far as I'm aware, so I'm not sure why the discussion would focus on those things specifically.

  • John||

    She never says evangelicals are just as bad as Islamic fundamentalists.

    Not in so many words but that is most certainly the implication. Think about it this way. What if I offered a defense of Edward Snowden by writing the following.

    Snowden is certainly not the only person who has damaged national security. People like Aldrich Aims and Richard Hanson sold secrets to Russia and comenters like Caldissident put forth the idea that the government has no right to keep anything secret.

    That is exactly what ENB did here. And you don't think that is implying an appalling false equivalence?

    Come on read it closely and think about it.

  • Calidissident||

    No it isn't John. The entire article is about the attitudes of this one guy and his place in a broader society. The fact that ENB doesn't specifically rank the odiousness of every group mentioned doesn't mean she thinks everything is all equal. There's some pretty broad differences in attitudes among evangelicals, as well as among Muslims and immigrants. She doesn't have to, and shouldn't have to, spell that out every time she's commenting on American society. Muslim fundamentalists may have very odious views, but they aren't that relevant in a broad discussion of gender equality in the US, because Muslims as a whole are only 1% of the population.

  • John||

    She doesn't have to, and shouldn't have to, spell that out every time she's commenting on American society

    And for the fifth time, I am not saying that. Are you just not reading my posts or are you reading them and pretending they say something they don't because you don't have any kind of a coherent response to them?

    I don't know what to tell you if you continue to pretend I am saying something I have repeatedly denied.

  • Jimbobb23||

    If having a tradition view of gender roles enforced only by ideas is misogyny - which is what Evangelicals have (not one) - than that word is as useful as homophobia and racism - nothing.

  • Long Woodchippers||

    I don't believe you have to mention Muslims every time you criticize Christians - but if you do criticize Christians treatment of women, and the subject switches to Muslims (such as with immigration) then you better not ignore it or downplay it.

    Maher asked Steinem if she had a problem with how Islam treats women, and she was like "Oh yes, but I have a problem with all monotheism." Like Islam is just the same as Judaism or Christianity.

  • bacon-magic||

    Now you're talking about races. The commentariat was right, you are one sentence away from racism. (I'm kidding you, don't whip meh)

  • John||

    No you don't. But when you go out of your way to talk about the evangelical menace to women and then not only never bother to say anything about Muslim treatment of women but also call anyone who does a racist, I think it is fair to conclude that you really don't care about women and are just pretending you do as a way to criticize evangelicals.

  • Irish ♥s ESB||

    John, here's the full quote in context:

    "But while such views on gender roles are far from normative in 21st-century America, it's not as if they're relegated solely to Roosh and his crowd. There are still a good deal of evangelical Christians who preach female submission to their husbands, with a lot of blogs kept about the subject. There's a lot of popular music about how bitches ain't shit. There are immigrants from many cultures where egalitarian gender roles aren't standard. We don't—and shouldn't—prevent any of these groups from meeting or monitor them when they do."

    Okay. She is specifically talking about 21st century America, not fucking Bangladesh. In 21st century America, there are approximately 10 times more Evangelical Christians than TOTAL Muslims. In terms of total numbers, there are more Evangelical Christians with ideas about women ENB would disapprove of than there are Muslims with those beliefs in this country.

    Secondly, she goes out of her way to mention several other groups of people in the same paragraph, including misogynistic rappers and 'immigrants from many cultures' where misogyny is the norm. How can you look at a paragraph where she talks about gangster rap culture and immigrant misogyny and conclude she's just picking on Evangelicals?

  • John||

    Because she is putting "female submission to their husband" as the evangelicals see it on the same list as the culture as places like Afghanistan with no mention that there is any difference in degree between them. That is most certainly picking on evangelicals by equating them to people who stone women to death for adultery.

    My post was about American feminists in general, not ENB. But ENB is most certainly guilty of the same kind of thing here. It is not that she ignores the Muslim issue. it is that she makes an appalling false equivalence between it and american evangelicals.

  • Calidissident||

    "Because she is putting "female submission to their husband" as the evangelicals see it on the same list as the culture as places like Afghanistan with no mention that there is any difference in degree between them. That is most certainly picking on evangelicals by equating them to people who stone women to death for adultery."

    There's no comparison to Afghanistan. At most there's a reference to immigrant communities. In a discussion of 21st century America, what happens in Afghanistan and Bangladesh isn't very relevant. It's absurd to think that one can't criticize evangelical attitudes toward woman without always including the disclaimer "but at least it's not as bad as what Muslims do!" It's a common refrain from the anti-PC crowd that is very similar to what's spouted by the PC crowd (hypersensitivity to criticism of certain groups, whataboutism, etc.)

  • John||

    Sure it is absurd and no one is saying that. IF ENB had just talked about evangelicals and not thrown them on that list, I at least wouldn't see the problem.

    And no, you don't have to always throw in a caveat about Muslims. If however, you never have anything to say about Muslims and only talk about Evangelicals, at some point it is fair to conclude you don't really care about women and are just pretending to care as a way to go after evangelicals. That is my point.

    As an aside, there have been multiple examples of honor killings in the Muslim community in the US over the last few years and female gentile mutilation among the US Somali population. So the problems associated with places like Afghanistan most certainly do sometimes come here with the immigrants from those places. And I have never seen ENB do a single post on these problems within the American immigrant community. Not one. If she is genuinely concerned about the plight of American women, why has she never taken up those issues? I don't mean in every post or every time she criticizes evangelicals. I mean written about them at all, because she never has as far as I have seen. If she has and I just missed it, then give me a link and I stand corrected.

  • bacon-magic||

    I'm saying she didn't mention the biggest problem to gender equality. Rappers don't make you listen. Evangelicals don't make you listen. But if you don't listen to Islam, they declare a fatwa on your fat ass.

  • Calidissident||

    Is Islam really the biggest problem to gender equality *in the United States*? And I'm pretty sure the "immigrant communities" line is supposed to include attitudes held by some Muslims. The insistence on always focusing the narrative on something like gender equality in the US on a group that forms 1% of the population is nonsense. And even though, misogynistic rappers and evangelicals don't attack random people who disagree with them, that doesn't mean they don't engage violent and/or controlling behavior towards women in their lives.

  • bacon-magic||

    It will be - Yoda

  • SusanM||

    Anger, fear, aggression, the dark side of the Force are they - Yoda

  • Long Woodchippers||

    My wife and I are both evangelicals. That has never meant she does everything I tell her to. In fact, her biggest complaint about me is I don't listen to what she says. And I do not slap her for that.

    I've always taken it to mean that the man and the woman run the house together, but in the end someone has to make final decisions, and that's the man, such as the captain and the executive officer on a navy ship. Christ says that a man has to protect his wife and be willing to lay down his life for her. That viewpoint certainly doesn't condone abuse.

  • Suicidy||

    Rappers and evangelicals are also not known to engage in forced clitorectomies of young women. Muslims are. A lot.

  • Jimbobb23||

    Remember folks any opinion held anywhere about anything that is older than 10 years is now crazy evil stuff.

  • ||

    Apparently the "they want to legalize rape" crowd has a petition up to have them declared a no-shit terrorist group. Those people (the proggies) are beyond belief.

  • Charles Easterly||

    Mental Atrophy

    I think that is an excellent name for a band, John.

  • Yusef Adama||

    Other than the wierdos at Reason, I hear nothing on the interwebs about this Roosh? person/bot, why is this important, why am I asking You?.......

  • GILMORE™||

    Its not, but its either this, or something about Trump

  • bacon-magic||

    This site is the only reason(drink) I know anything about this douche bag.

  • toolkien||

  • EscherEnigma||

    "Now the world thinks they're going to meet to, uh, to rape people. So why are they going to meet now? Do you think it's smart now for them to go and meet after that?"
    Well, yes.

    Pretty much any "hated" group has had to pass that bar of meeting up even when the world slanders and libels their name. Thinking that your merry band of misogynists is somehow free from that is delusional.

    Did this little episode garner more then it's fair share of unwanted attention? Sure. But the answer isn't to hide, it's to go out and do it anyway.

  • Sidd Finch v2.01||

    But one thing we all agree on is a similar diagnosis: online media prioritizes sensationalism and righteous signaling over accuracy and nuance. This is far from ahistorical, of course, but it also makes modern media much less "progressive" than many in it would like to think.

    What's more progressive than "righteous signaling"?

  • Loki||

    There, awaiting you, will be... a conference table full of bloggers and a raging narcissist pissed at the media.

    Great, another Trump story...

  • Heroic Mulatto||


    There, awaiting you, will be... a conference table full of bloggers and a raging narcissist pissed at the media.

    Great, another Trump story...


    WOMBO COMBO!

  • Loki||

    He told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation that "Australia doesn’t welcome people to our country who disrespect women."

    So, I take it they're not allowing immigration from most middle eastern countries? And they say Trump is an Islamophobe...

  • Loki||

    Despite this, Taibbi and Ames have continued to flourish as leftist writers, and as far as I know no feminist groups or Canadian mayors have tried to prevent either from visiting the country. Perhaps they're just lucky to have come of age in a different Internet era. Perhaps it helps that their politics and progressive credentials are otherwise right.

    Winner winner, chicken dinner. You can be as sleazy as you like so long as you have "the right views."

  • Chipwooder||

    Just look at Bill Cosby. The entertainment industry was plenty willing to turn a blind eye until he started criticizing black culture.

    Or, of course, Bill Clinton.

  • Suicidy||

    And of course no criminal probe of Bubba, even though many women have accused him of rape. Plus all his visits to pedo island with his pal Jeffrey Epstein.

  • Californio||

    Thanks Reason - for all the talk, you just want to be part of the VANGUARD of the leftist elite. See - Totalitarianism ain't so BAD - - if it promotes the "right" views. PATHETIC!!!!!!!

  • esteve7||

    So I haven't checked, but is he advocating something 'illegal'? Then shouldn't he be committing some sort of crime? .... or are they just mad he says mean things?

    Most 'hated man' in America says more about our social signalling than anything. I hate murderers and child molesters much more than a guy with shitty opinions.

  • ||

    An alternate name for pick-up artist is con artist. He is a slime ball, but he is performing an excellent public service by trolling the hell out of the feminists and getting them to throw off the mask. He should keep it up. I look forward to hearing about someone attempting to kill him.

  • John||

    Con artist is a good way to put it.

  • Suicidy||

    Connnnnnnnnnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • fche||

    "the latest opportunity to assert their goodness, to feel the catharsis of raging in solidarity"

    Great zinger, Elizabeth.

    (As a noun phrase, I'd put it as a virtue signalling mass hysteria.)

  • Jimbobb23||

    "America would be greater if only women were skinnier and had less sex outside marriage"

    Wow - if this was a platform I think it would have probably get big support. The first half would probably get 90% support in America.

    This was alot of words for a nobody. But I did find it odd to have my views called so retrograde. Its an odd idea for women to stay home and raise kids? Its crazy to get married, stay married, and within the marriage specialize? And I am not even a CRAZY evangelical Christian. Amazing.

  • John||

    I don't see how you could argue with either of those propositions. If women had less sex outside marriage, men would have more of a reason to marry them and stay married. It is pretty undeniable that society as a whole is better off with more stable families.

    People on here seem to not understand that just because people have a right to do anything they want doesn't mean all outcomes are equally good. They most certainly are not.

  • PapayaSF||

    True.

  • Californio||

    Wait - you mean you cannot debase your market value and then demand top dollar later? (Face palm!) Oh man! That would totally explain why Giselle Bundchen ignored me after I invested so much time smoking pot and living in my parents basement! And I thought she was just brainwashed by the capitalist patriarchy!

  • lap83||

    Radical Feminists make similar observations about how much men need to improve. Some of them are accurate. The problem with both approaches is that you can't improve other people, you can only improve yourself. Yes men can be sexist. Get over it and try not to be prejudiced yourself. Make your own opportunities. Yes some women are skanks. But if you learn to look for characteristics besides just outward appearance you can find a woman who is loyal.

    The world would be a better place if people looked to themselves to solve their own problems

  • PapayaSF||

    "It is easier to wear shoes than to cover the earth with leather."

  • Rhywun||

    I am completely baffled that so many people are fascinated by this mediocre performance artist. Not going to RTFA or the comments.

  • ||

    Excellent piece. So dead on accurate about so much. Wish I had more time to comment.

  • Number 2||

    "Des Moines, Iowa, police put out a Facebook message warning that the meetups "may be a ruse to commit rape. We have no information that this will actually take place but we recommend that no one, men or women go to any of the sites.""

    Wow.

    Can we issue the same statement about, say, this year's Democratic National Convention, especially if Bill Clinton or Andrew Weiner attend?

    Seriously though, this police statement invites a lawsuit.

  • Californio||

    Wow. I 'm going to have to reassess what "Reason" is all about. You could not have a so called reporter that does not speak in code words so we can all rest assured that she is thinking the correct thoughts about gender, white people, heterosexual men, etc? What next - "Everyone knows that....(insert lefty or hell, even righty - ideological quasi-religious belief here)..." I am certain that the benighted reporter would also condemn the rape culture of Egypt, 99% of the Middle East and....oh...wait..."everyone knows" that would be racist - which apparently is a greater sin than facilitating rape. IT is so difficult to keep up with these things - as the said in the old Soviet Union, "Only the future is Certain! The Past keeps getting changed......"

  • buybuydandavis||

    His proposal could equally be described as advocating and identifying an objective, public "yes means yes" criteria for consent.

    Consent is now achieved when she passes underneath the room’s door frame

    Lacking such an objective criteria, and lacking the "old fashioned" social more of women not being unchaperoned in private with men unless they want sex, and having changed to a society where casual sex is common, society is left with a problem, particularly in the context of date rape.

    There's no way to determine who consented to what when two people are alone in a room. Following the basic principles of Anglo Saxon criminal law, where a crime must be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt", it basically is de facto legal to rape in a private residence, as the legal standard to convict a rapist cannot be met. But it also is de facto legal to falsely accuse someone of rape, because it's equally difficult to prove that no rape occurred.

    (Note - I suppose evidence of a violent struggle provides real though not conclusive evidence in the case of rape. But the usual "date rape scenario" lacks such evidence.)

  • buybuydandavis||

    continued from previous...

    When you throw off the old ways, sometimes you throw off things that served a purpose or two.

    The rules don't have to be that way. There could be special rules for accusations of "private" rape. If a person claims rape, you're guilty. Whether this is a good idea or not, it at least should not be implemented in a sexist fashion, so that this claim is available to both partners. Mutual assured destruction. This would make for a self enforced social more of people not being alone together unless they want sex, and only having sex with people they trust.

    Or, we could make it illegal for unmarried people to be alone together.

    There are lots of permutations, but none them are without their problems. Whether to avoid being raped, or avoid being falsely accused of rape, it's pretty much incumbent on you not to be alone with people you don't trust.

  • ||

    Yeah, burdens of proof. And a matter of contract. Consider the case of a woman agreeing to not have a safe word, deliberately risking that man doesn't know where and when to stop. That's different to selling oneself into slavery for a few hours, but she limits her options to not perform.

  • ||

    Assumption of risk, whatever words or act one bases it on. As a matter of legislation/legal fiction, it can be entering a home, or bedroom.

  • ||

    A few years later, in D.C., whenever I've mentioned Schwyzer to writer friends or colleagues, no one knows anything about him.

    Apparently, he's active on Twitter again.

  • buybuydandavis||

    Asked what he likes about Trump, Roosh replies that it's because "he hates you guys too. The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

    I think this is Trump's primary appeal - taking on progressive propagandists in the media. Career Republican pols, like all good apparatchiks, prefer to play it safe.

  • Bill Adams||

    It's good to know you can still get a thoughtful, detailed, nuanced, and balanced article at REASON. I guess the trick is to skip anything with "Cruz" in the headline.

  • Sanjuro Tsubaki||

    Nixon vs. Lennon, Part 503...

  • Jayburd||

    I hear thar's good moola in making mountains outta molehills.

  • Curiouser George||

    Ha, yes! The punditry seems like scores of moles at work, making mountains, which other people turn into. competing mountains.

  • ||

    Based on the response, we do have an anti-rape culture.

  • Curiouser George||

    The 15 minutes I spent reading this? I want it back. This is an example of the media watching someone else masturbating and then masturbating to the sight of it. In the end, he's infantile.

    Also, this article could easily be cut in half.

  • العاب كركر||

    Most of us don't spend enough time on the social medias to be able to troll at that level.
    العاب جديدة
    250

  • ||

    I never heard of this cocksucker till about a year ago, I think, and I cam acrossed a couple of social commentary articles on somebody's wabsite. I was very impressed. Thought, this guy is a genius. So I found his wabsite, where for the most part he seemed to be going off the deepend without a paddle. Still, when he writes seriously it's hard to fault him, and his other work--artisticly, he is an inspiration, regardless the vanity of content. Babies...

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